No WMD's

[Kakarot]

WASHINGTON—The former top U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq said Sunday he believes Saddam Hussn had no weapons of mass destruction before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

David Kay (search)said the challenge for the United States now is to figure out why intelligence indicated that the Iraqi president did have them.

"We led this search to find the truth, not to find the weapons. The fact that we found so far the weapons do not exist, we've got to deal with that difference and understand why," Kay said Sunday on theNational Public Radio (search)program "Weekend Edition."

Asked whether he feelsPresident Bush (search)owes the American people an apology for starting the war on the basis of apparently flawed intelligence, Kay said: "I actually think the intelligence community owes the president rather than the president owing the American people.

"You have to remember that this view of Iraq was held during the Clinton administration and didn't change in the Bush administration. It is not a political `got you' issue. It is a serious issue of how you could come to the conclusion that is not matched by the future."
"It's not a political issue. Its an issue of the capabilities of one's intelligence service to collect valid, truthful information."

Since Kay's resignation Friday as the top U.S. weapons investigator in Iraq, Kay has said Iraq had no large-scale weapons production program during the 1990s, after it lost the 1991 Persian Gulf War, and no large numbers of mass destruction weapons were available for "imminent action."

Still, "that is not the same thing as saying it was not a serious, imminent threat," he said Sunday. "That is a political judgment," he said, "not a technical judgment."
Kay's declaration that weapons of mass destruction did not exist before the war puts him in direct contradiction with the official Bush administration position. On Saturday, President Bush's spokesman said the administration stood by its assertions that Iraq had banned weapons when U.S. and British forces invaded last March. The spokesman, Scott McClellan, said it was only a matter of time before inspectors find them.
Secretary of State Colin Powell, in contrast, held out the possibility Saturday that prewar Iraq may not have possessed such weapons. "The answer to that question is, we don't know yet," Powell told reporters on a trip to Georgia. He said U.S. officials had believed Saddam had weapons prewar but had unanswered questions: "What was it?" he asked. "One hundred tons, 500 tons or zero tons? Was it so many liters of anthrax, 10 times that amount or nothing?"

Kay said he believes the American public and politicians now have to grapple with the question of whether the Iraqi dictator posed an imminent threat. Given the reality on the ground, as opposed to estimates, some may reach different conclusions than they did before the war, he said.

"I must say I actually think Iraq — what we learned during the inspections — made Iraq a more dangerous place potentially than in fact we thought it was even before the war," Kay added.

Kay came home from Iraq in December and never returned to Baghdad to continue inspections as head of the Iraq Survey Group, sent by the CIA to track down Saddam's weapons of mass destruction.
CIA Director George Tenet replaced him Friday with Charles Duelfer, the No. 2 weapons inspector for the United Nations for about seven years.

Kay said he left the position because resources were bng shifted from the search for Iraq's weapons stockpiles to counterterrorism and troop protection in Iraq.

Duelfer said Friday he has been assured he will have the appropriate resources.
Kay said he now is going to turn his attention to weapons proliferation issues and the recent lessons learned.
In addition to Iraq, he pointed out, the United States has been surprised this year by nuclear programs in Libya and Iran.

"The Iranian program was not found ther by the international inspection agencies or by domestic intelligence services. It was Iranian defectors, Iranian opposition groups outside of Iran that brought it to the world's attention," Kay told NPR.
In Libya, he said, the surprise has been the connections to Pakistan and Malaysia, where he said it appears plants were producing parts.

"It is in many ways the biggest surprise of all, and it was missed," Kay said. "We need to understand our capabilities and what needs to be done to make the nation better."

--------------------------------------------

My republican friends, you may now commence your backpedalling.

Doesn't really matter what you have to say, Bush is going down anyway.

[ChrisF202]

uggh, you people annoy me, what do you think he used on the Shias a Kurds in 1988 and 1991? Does Sarin gas sound familar?
________
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[Realist]

Chris, you had better check your facts. What weapons Iraq may have had or used during the war with Iran are irrelevant. Dubya and company stated that Iraq's "current" weapons of mass destruction posed an imminent threat to the US. Well guess what? There haven't been any WMDs in Iraq since the end of the Gulf War. The whole pretext for the invasion was a lie.

Uggh, I see stupid people. Walking around like regular people. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don't know they're stupid.
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[NYIndependence]

Even if you subscribe to the absolutely absurd belief that Saddam destroyed all of his WMD's, he would still be in violation of the UN Resolution. It required him not only to destroy his weapons, but to declare that he destroyed them.
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[Kakarot]

Quote:Even if you subscribe to the absolutely absurd belief that Saddam destroyed all of his WMD's, he would still be in violation of the UN Resolution. It required him not only to destroy his weapons, but to declare that he destroyed them.

Stupid Kay, what does he know! And why is is absolutely absurd? Because you want it to be? Oh yeah, I'll take your insight over that of an official weapons inspector.

And oh... did he forget to declare it? Damn, he made an administrative error, let's start a war then, shall we?

I mean, for God's sake!

These are the same people who were declaring 9 months ago "If we DO find weapons, you liberal hypocrites still won't accept them". Well it looks like it will be the other way around, and yet stills we are wrong. How noble of you.

This is a very, very, very big embarrassment for the US to the entire world. Thank you, Shrub. 11 more months and you can join daddy and spend your joint blood money.

[NYIndependence]

Calling the failure to declare the destruction of weapons an administrative error is an appalling understatement. I doubt that Saddam forgot to tell his secretary to fax the declaration. Is this the scenario that you had concocted?
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[azellyn]

Anybody who is relying on activities from last millenium, 15 years and a war ago, to justify the present invasion is insane.
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[NYIndependence]

Oh, that millenium? It was so long ago that I normally just refer to it as the "before" time.
________
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[Clintonista]

NYIndy,

it's time to admit that the ratinal for war was soley without merit.

500+ Americans are dead 11,000+ have needed medical evacuation.

The Bushies preach personal responsibility. It's time W practices what he preached.

As late as last week Dick was stating catagoricaly that Hussn had WMD's. Including those 2 non-existant mobile bio labs.

Is the fact Hussn is gone a good thing? Yes But the Nuns taught me in Algebra that if the result is correct but the methodology is wrong the result is wrong....the same is true in life............

W was wrong and needs to be replaced.

But he'll never admit he was EVER wrong. Why? He has stated he was made President by God. Ergo, everything he does has the sanction of the Almighty and the Almighty is never wrong. Which also means to question W's actions is to question the Almighty.

For that aview alone W needs to be sent packing
________
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[NYIndependence]

Quote:it's time to admit that the ratinal for war was soley without merit.
I think I've outlined the merit throughout this message board.
Quote:As late as last week Dick was stating catagoricaly that Hussn had WMD's. Including those 2 non-existant mobile bio labs.
Those two labs exist, it's just a matter of what they were used for and are there other which have left the country.
Quote:He has stated he was made President by God. Ergo, everything he does has the sanction of the Almighty and the Almighty is never wrong. Which also means to question W's actions is to question the Almighty.
Wow, Kevin Bacon would be proud. That's almost like blaiming Dick Clark for a shooting death... almost.
________
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[gatherlight]

Quote:Those two labs exist, it's just a matter of what they were used for and are there other which have left the country.

Clear signs of FOX/Cheney BRAINWASHING

You neo-con Dittoheads make me laugh at just how brainwashed/stupid you really are sometimes. This is the 21st century. Our inspectors have the technology to determine if chemical weapons had ever been developed in those trailers. They determined NO. But you can't except that. Why?
Because your head is so far stuck up the Neo-Con Agenda's behind that you can't smell reality and admit your god-king Bush made a mistake.


Religion has no place in public schools the way facts have no place in organized religion.
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Ford U platform history (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_U_platform)

[gatherlight]

and your not a moderate....

You're a Republican. A brainwashed one.

A moderate would finally conclude that there were no WMD and admit the intelligence was bad. You however still believe they exist and will follow Cheney's lead that we will still find them someday. That is Republican ever bit of the way.
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[NYIndependence]

Apparently you don't know what I'm referring to, so I'll let you spew your propaganda her for now.
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[Moriarty]

Must be a confortable life, always thinking you have all the answers and knowing you're always right.

You can't debate. You just state your point of view as bng a fact and attack or discredit everything that strays even slightly from that path. That's not debating. That's is bng stubborn and pigheaded. Debating is about giving and taking. You just take.

You should learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. Just because you THINK that your so-called facts are logical conclusions drawn from random information, doesn't mean that they ARE. This also applies to myself. But I realise this, you don't seem to do the same.

Quote:Apparently you don't know what I'm referring to, so I'll let you spew your propaganda her for now.

Nice way of saying you can't think of anything you could say back, but still think you're high above the other person.

[Clintonista]

as stated by W has shown to be w/out merit. where there other rationals that were valid? Yes. but he didn't use them.

the end DOES NOT justify the means.

and we're not better off or safer when we can be manipulated into war so easily.

maybe I'm too dense but I don't get the Kevin Bacon connection.

and I still stand by the quote. he thinks he's been annoited by God herself and how dare anyone questions him.....VERY SCARY
________
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[Reality]

Did President Bush Really Lie????

If you really believe that President BUSH lied - -
THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ AND HE TOOK US TO WAR SOLELY FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES -- then read these quotes:



"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That
is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
destruction program."
President Clinton, February. 17, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten
times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the
U. S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass
destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle,
John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussn has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he
has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussn has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madelin Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussn has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam
continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of
a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten
the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and
others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussn is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction
and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in
power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussn is seeking and
developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussn retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussn because I
believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is
a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussn is working
aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons
within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always
underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of
mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy
his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do"
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
that Saddam Hussn has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
members . It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussn will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
Saddam Hussn has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity
for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussn. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued dect and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
.... So the threat of Saddam Hussn with weapons of mass destruction is real
..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

So, as I see it (and this should be pretty clear to all), the Dems are nothing but hypocritical backstabbers who actively assisted in fueling military action against Iraq, and are now using the WMD issue for selfish political purposes. Shameless bastards, one and all.

[Siliclast]

But, does this deal with where the REAL pressure for war came from? It came almost exclusively from the Bush administration, and thr echo chamber in the GOP.

Bush went to war, despite the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dissenting voices all over the world, who said BEFORE we bombed a third-world country into the stone-age, that Iraq HAD NO WMDs.

But now they want to shift the blame to the CIA, which is ridiculous if you actually READ all the CIA agents who wrote reports BEFORE the war saying how dubious that intelligence was.

But too many people only paid attention to the mainstream media, which has long-since been taken over by big corporate America with heavy Republican ties. The media didn't bother to cover the ACTUAL DEBATE.

But as for the "hypocracy" of the democrats; I would rather people change thr minds, than a stubborn and ideologically blind President who refuses for admit ANY responsibility.
________
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[midgetbones]

Read a book called "see no evil" by Robert Baer. He was in Iraq looooong before any of this. See what he has to say about these things.
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[shortwave]

The justification for the Iraq war came down to one issue: Did Iraq pose an imminent threat to the United States. The American people supported going to war this reason, nothing else. If the American people had known the truth, they never would have supported the chicken hawk neocon's war. If the issue is about violating UN resolutions, the US should have attacked Israel years ago. It'll be a lots of fun seng Richaard Perles's fat ass bng hauled off to jail. How will he ever satisfy his gargantuan apetite in jail.
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[shortwave]

There was never any concern for the Iraqi people. Saddam could murder with impunity as long as he obeyed orders. Your concern for the Iraqi people is all crocadile tears.Saddam made the same mistake Noriega made:he disobeyed orders.
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[Reality]

Many prominent Democrats agreed that Saddam posed an imminent threat to the U.S. via WMD, as is evidenced by the quotes I provided. You liberals can try and spin the WMD issue any way you want for partisan political advantage, but the facts will not change. As many Democrats as Republicans felt the same way about Saddam and his capability to destroy. For the Dems to now try and weasel out of thr own words is telling indeed. Like I said....Shameless bastards, one and all.

[shortwave]

I agree with you Reality.
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[jamesmicheal]

Bush had the most to gain to go to war.

Not just oil, contracts, weapons deals, etc., but also political gain.

Yes, others on both side agreed, but the BUSH Admin. had all the intelligence and spun it out to the world in a huge plague of lies.

Why are you so stubborn to see the truth?

The war was a farce, it was a crime and Bush is a war criminal. Clinton was impeached for sex, yet Bush can kill, lie, create a fictious war and you swallow it up like he's superman saving us from an evil that never really threatened us at all.

[Allie62]

The fact that some prominent Dems believed that Saddam may have had or had access to WMDs is irrelevant.

BUSH PUSHED THE BUTTON. Clinton did not, Kerry did not. It was Bush. Bush is the President. Bush is the one who is ultimately responsible for the actions that HE himself authorizes. He is the one who had the power to STOP us from going to war if there was insufficient evidence. If there was any doubt at all, as evidenced by the consistent outrage of the UN and many, many American citizens who were afraid that our sons and daughters were going to be shipped off to war, it was the responsibility of BUSH to make sure all the ducks were in a row before he sent our soldiers to war. HE DID NOT DO THAT - he just pushed the button. He alone is responsible for the deaths and life-destroying injuries (physical, emotional and mental) that our soldiers and thr families continue to endure. Bush acted irresponsibly, and the country is paying for it. Through the nose.

[Clintonista]

I agree.

BUT, once you find out that the WMD didn't exist, that the intel was hyped, that the word nuke was intentionaly erroneously applied it IS fair to change your mind and say that W was way out of line.

Not to do so is the same as hiring a guy to paint your house and saying nothing when he screws it up.....you wouldn'to that. So, taking W to task is legit. ESPECIALY when he refuses to admit that the intel was wrong.....he leaves himself vulnerable......

W is truly amazing: everything wrong is Clinton's fault and everything that's OK is W's doing. They don't even give Clinton the credit for tha military he left to W that's done the wonderful job..........hypocrits!
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[Reality]

You're assuming two things. 1. That WMD will never be found, and in fact never even existed. 2. That GW knew that intelligence regarding the capability of Iraq was flawed when the decision to go to war was made.

Absent any concrete evidence of ther, these are two rather large assumptions don't you think?

[Wheres oilman Gore]

If he had to engage Iraq after 9/11 the same critics of Bush would be correct in alluding that Gore and his family are in the oil business and he invaded Iraq for oil. Leftists should give Iraqi oil a rest it doesn't even appear to look true and it's not.

[shortwave]

Reality appears to clueless about the neocon hijacking of american forgn policy. The bush administration doesn't care about the truth. If you want to learn more about the neocon hikacking of American forgn policy go to Karen Kwitiakowski website. Kwitiakowski, a recently retired airforce officer was an eye witness to the whole thing. The neocons are going to jail. UN weapons inspector Daniel KAY finally admitted the obvious: it was all a lie. The Iraq war was based upon lies. Iraqi children had there heads blown off. No wonder the arabs hate us. Even chickenhawk Bill O'Rlly admitts that The Bush administration lied to the America people. So don't be shocked if the United States is hit with another terrorist attack.
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[Clintonista]

1. I don't think WMD will ever be found. I think some once existed but was destroyed in Gulf I & the rest allowed to deteriorate. And some was ficticious. Iraqi scientists doing some CYA.

2. I believe that there were enough indications that the Intel was flawed and those indications were discarded.

The fact that BC believed they were there is irrelevant on this point: He didn't go to war. He sent off a few hundred Tomahawks. If W did that NOBODY would have had much to say.

But the rational has turned into "Reason Du Jour" and that's NOT good for America.
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[shortwave]

No,Jorge Bush didn't go into Iraq because of it's gargantuan oil resources. He invaded Iraq because he wants to control the camel and goat markets of the world.
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[midgetbones]

They don't even give Clinton the credit for tha military he left to W that's done the wonderful job..........hypocrits! "

You have got to be kidding me. Clinton gave 2 shits about us. He showed it. Most of us can't stand the thought of having another President like Clinton in office to cut our training down. Back to the days where live fire ranges were cut down to simulation strictly because we didn't have the funding to expend countless rounds down range. Clinton was a piece of @#%$ and to think that he would even think of taking credit for any of us is ridiculous. He did nothing for us except neglect us. He looked the other way when we needed him. We kick ass because we are given what we need to get the job done. Something Clinton NEVER did.
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[SA]