ARTICLE: More Iraqi Democracy, American style

[Billybob]

U.S. troops arrest Iraqi for criticising them

BAGHDAD, Nov. 11 ? American soldiers handcuffed and firmly wrapped masking tape around an Iraqi man's mouth as they arrested him on Tuesday for speaking out against occupation troops.

Asked why the man had been arrested and put into the back of a Humvee vehicle on Tahrir Square, the commanding officer told Reuters at the scene: ''This man has been detained for making anti-coalition statements.''
He refused to say what the man said.
A U.S. military spokesman said he had no immediate information on the incident.
U.S. politicians and military commanders often say they toppled Iraqi leader Saddam Hussn so that Iraqis can enjoy free speech and democracy after years of iron-fisted rule.
Another U.S. soldier swore at Iraqis as he ordered them to move back. School teachers and young students looked on.
The troops had earlier closed off the sprawling square with barbed wire to search for home-made bombs, which along with rocket-propelled grenades have killed 153 American soldiers since major combat was declared over on May 1.


from
famulus.msnbc.com/Famulus...eg=MID
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[midgetbones]

It's easy to question the actions of those soldiers in the comfort of your living room. I am certain there is more to that story than the media likes to report.
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[Reality]

Let me make it for him. "Those damn American fascist soldiers are at it again". "We're killing innocent Iraqi women and children."That fascist Bush is trying to take over the world". "The election was a fraud". "There were no WMD". "The Republicans are taking away our freedoms." Allow me to pause for a big political yawn. Yadayadayadayada.
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[Billybob]

Can you explain to me why such notions are WITHOUT merit? As unbelievable as it may seem to the brainwashed, I think the evidence is fairly conclusive.

If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, yadda yadda.

For a better take, here's a great interview with Gore Vidal, expressing pretty much what you mockingly stated

www.laweekly.com/ink/03/5...cooper.php

I suggest you read it, you might learn something.
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[Reality]

Here is an excerpt from the interview you seemingly take as truth and gospel:

Q: Do you not think of Bush and Ashcroft as Americans?

Gore Vidal: "I think of them as an alien army. They have managed to take over everything, and quite in the open. We have a deranged president. We have despotism. We have no due process".

This is an example of the rantings of a person with severe liberal paranoia. In addition, Vidal goes on the equate the Patriot Act (an act approved by Congress to protect Americans at home) with Hitler. How can anyone, ie. you, take this fool seriously? Is there no end to what liberals will say or do to get President Bush out of the White House?

BillyBob, if this is what you believe, and this is your idea of the type of person who should be entrusted with governing our country, then you are beyond reasoning with.


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[Reality]

Here's an article for you to read. You might just learn something about Gore Vidal.

www.nyobserver.com/pages/story.asp?ID=6571
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[midgetbones]

"As unbelievable as it may seem to the brainwashed, I think the evidence is fairly conclusive."

The brainwashed part. It makes you sound like a little kid billybob, find something new.
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[Billybob]

Reality, that article you sent me was PURE smear-campaign.

If you don't understand the difference between an assertion and an argument, let me clue you in.

Gore Vidal has extensively researched the founding of this country. That research has led him (and MILLIONS of others, I might add) to believe that the Bush administration is as "Anti-American" as you can get.

Read Lysander Spooner too (a good site is at lysanderspooner.com), who agrees that the constitution wasn't written as a binding and rigid system of government, to be strictly enforced, but more as a transitional document, meant to be completely revised every generation if necessary.

I'm quite annoyed that after reading that article (in which he cites texts from Franklin, Jefferson, and more of our founding fathers), you'd simply label him a wacko. I guess that's convenient, since he DOES say things you won't hear people saying on television.

Oh, and I believe the Nixon's penis thing was a Freudian reference to the way Nixon BIG TIME allowed his ego to dictate his actions. Unchecked egos always lead to a paranoid, patriarchal, and authoritarian leadership. Hey, like the administration we have now!

And midgetbones, you should really read up on brainwashing. It's a completely psychological process, and one that's more common than you think. It happens in boot camp, to kidnapping victims, in jail, from your parents, etc. It basically occurs when a persona other than yourself gains control over your life, to the point that you're reduced to an infant (if you don't like my description, there are PLENTY of books on this subject. The best may be from Carl Jung), and totally at the mercy of the other party. That party, at that point, has a VERY strong influence over your beliefs, behavior, and even your appearance. Just look at Patty Herst. That's a very good example.

But one of the most important aspects of brainwashing, is that you're no longer making decisions completely for yourself. Rather, you're regurgitating whatever the authority figure has imprinted on you. This is not crazy; it happens all the time, and is a normal part of human development that can be manipulated. Perhaps I should use the term "imprinted" instead of brainwashed? Would that allow you to accept it more? I know packaging is important, but a rose by any other name...

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[midgetbones]

then it is unbelievable to you also, right? I mean if bng "brainwashed" is what you and these people say it is then you wouldn't be exluded from the statment you made about it bng unbelievable to the brainwashed, am I correct? Just making sure I am on the right track.
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[Billybob]

You're right, I don't think I'm excluded from that group. But of course, through steps such as meditation, or other such exercises, one can overcome that programming and align themselves better with, uh, themselves.

So no, I'm in no way claiming I'm somehow superior, BELIEVE ME. But I'm sick of people not realizing how thr own prejudices and imprints lend more to thr view of reality than what they think they are percving.


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[Reality]

Lysander Spooner was an anarchist. Are you?
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[Billybob]

So, Lysander Spooner = anarchist?

Is that all he stands for?

I'm willing to bet money that you've NEVER read any of his letters or publications in depth.

Again I see that you have no idea that there's a difference between an assertion and an argument. WHY is he an anarchist?
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[Billybob]

as?ser?tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-s?rshn)
n.
The act of asserting.
Something declared or stated positively, often with no support or attempt at proof.


AND THEN THERE'S


ar?gu?ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (?rgy-mnt)
n.

-A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood
-A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason:
-A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.


I don't think saying "Lysander Spooner IS an anarchist" qualifies as an argument.

But how about this: If his views are consistant with anarchy (as opposed to authoritarian rule), what would your problem be with that. Thomas Jefferson, and most of the founding fathers believed in the smalles possible government. Since it's only taken 200 years for our tiny government to balloon into the corporate tsarist fear state we live in now, doesn't it make sense that the smallest possible government is NO government.

Thomas Jefferson himself once wrote that if the American experiment failed, we may want to consider the anarchistic for of government that the Native Americans used.
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[Reality]

Quote: Since it's only taken 200 years for our tiny government to balloon into the corporate tsarist fear state we live in now, doesn't it make sense that the smallest possible government is NO government.

Calling our government a "tsarist fear state" wouldn't be an assertion, now would it?
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[Billybob]

Well, this nation DOES have a tsar, does it not?

Read Dostyevsky on Tsarism Russia circa 1800 - WW1. The political situation they had there is about equal to what we have now.

And how about "corporate"? Well, I think it's a little hard to argue that this country HASN'T been sold to the corporations. They even seem to direct American forgn policy, or benefit from it (which one drives the other is a matter of opinion, I suppose). Our medical records are sold to pharmaceutical companies, and your credit expenditures are also sold. Corporations dominate every single aspect of American life, and I defy you to find a single moment during the day where there's not an advertisement staring you in the face.

For the fear state part, read "The Culture of Fear" by Barry Glassner. It explains in great detail how our fears are played upon by the government, and how they use them to push whatever crazy policies they want. Think about it, if the American people weren't so nutty-crazy about 9/11, would we have accepted the Patriot Act? How about the Iraq war (Iraq having NOTHING to do with 9/11)?

So, I stand by my statement.
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