Dumping Bush from beyond the grave???

[Realist]

This was an actual obituary published in The Times-Picayune, New Orleans on 10/2/2003.

Word has been recved that Gertrude M. Jones, 81, passed away on August 25, 2003, under the loving care of the nursing aides of Heritage Manor of Mandeville, Louisiana. She was a native of Lebanon, KY. She was a retired Vice President of Georgia International Life Insurance Company of Atlanta, GA. Her husband, Warren K. Jones predeceased her. Two daughters survive her: Dawn Hunt and her live-in boyfriend, Roland, of Mandeville, LA; and Melba Kovalak and her husband, Drew Kovalak, of Woodbury, MN. Three sisters, four grandchildren and three great grandchildren, also survive her. Funeral services were held in Louisville, KY. Memorial gifts may be made to any organization that seeks the removal of President George Bush from office.
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[MasticDem]

Woman's Anti-Bush Obituary Draws Money

By DOUG SIMPSON
Associated Press Writer

November 7, 2003, 5:30 PM EST


NEW ORLEANS -- Gertrude M. Jones didn't want flowers or cards when she died. She wanted to get rid of President Bush.

The 81-year-old woman's obituary asked that memorial donations be given "to any organization that seeks the removal of President Bush from office."

And people around the country are following her wishes.

In an online memorial book to Jones, dozens of people posted messages of support. Many wrote that they would contribute to the Democratic National Committee or one of the presidential contenders.

"When I saw the obituary I thought, 'That's pretty cool. She's not here in this life anymore, but she's keeping going with something she feels deeply about," said Susan Crites, an online bookseller in Colorado who was moved by the obituary to add an extra $10 to the approximately $350 she has sent to Howard Dean.

The campaign of fellow candidate Wesley Clark has also recved at l 15 donations in Jones' name in Montana alone, said Angela Monaghan, Clark's campaign coordinator in Ramsay, Mont.

"It's been real effective. If that's what it takes to get people to donate, then that's great," Monaghan said.

Jones, of Mandeville, La., died Aug. 25 and her brief obituary appeared in The (New Orleans) Times-Picayune on Oct. 2.

Copyright © 2003, The Associated Press

[midgetbones]

how do you all plan on getting the money to certain terrorist organizations? I am sure they would really like to see President Bush out of office also.
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[Billybob]

Wow, that's quite a scary and Orwellian logic system you set up here.

Basically, you're saying that NOT voting for Bush equals voting for "the terrorists"?

I really hope you don't believe that. I'd like to think our armed forces are a little better educated.
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[midgetbones]

"Memorial gifts may be made to any organization that seeks the removal of President George Bush from office. "

Key word "any".

Who said anything about voting? I am confused... educate me please.
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[Billybob]

Well, it's crazy to assume that "the terrorists" want Bush out of office. What they want is America out of the middle ! They don't give a crap about politics, and they know enough to know that simply removing Bush isn't going to get them what they want.

But the implication is that Bush is the worst nightmare of "the terrorists". I don't think that could be further from the truth.

But obviously this women meant donations to political parties, NGOs, etc. There are many many many reasons why George W. Bush could be one of the worst Presidents in American history, and I think for you you to assume that only the "evil" people want him out of office is a testament to how brainwashed people can be.
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[midgetbones]

I took EXACTLY what she said and applied a thought that fit.

"But obviously this women meant donations to political parties, NGOs, etc."

You simply took what she said and made your theory as to what she meant.

"and I think for you you to assume that only the "evil" people want him out of office is a testament to how brainwashed people can be. "

And I think to assume that I assumed that only "evil" people want him out of office is ridiculous.

Keyword here: "only" - what you are saying is that I said ONLY evil people want Bush out of office. Which I didn't.
It wasn't exclusive to ONLY terrorists ("evil" people as you put it)


"Well, it's crazy to assume that "the terrorists" want Bush out of office"
- Is it crazy to assume that with a Democratic President America will be out of the middle ? Because if a Democratic President wouldn't pull us out of the middle would you support him?
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[Billybob]

Yes, we ALL fit the sensory input we get into our own little reality tunnels.

But with that in mind, how can you judge ANYBODY? How can you say with certainty that I am wrong, or that this woman's final wish is somehow flawed (which is what I assumed you are implying)? I see you've been posting on this board for some time, and you almost always speak in certainties. IS there any room for doubt?

To answer your question, I don't think simply leaving the Middle is a good idea at all. I DO think that at the moment, America's stupid militarism is making matters WORSE, not better. The Iraqi people live in an extreme police state at the moment, with a forgn army (America's) occupying thr territory, American businesses running thr major industries, and the people basically treated less than human. I am speaking in GENERAL, of course, because the policies of this country are not reflected in every American's actions in Iraq. But I think to believe that this occupation of Iraq is somehow benefitting the Iraqi people is quite nuts. It's not "forgn fighters" who are opposing our forces (WE are the real forgn aggressors), but mostly Iraqis who are VERY opposed to thr country bng in America's hands.

Btu I believe simply leaving at this point would completely devastate Iraq and the region. America needs to give up CONTROL of Iraq, but at the same time stilol provide security and assistance in rebuilding the country we blew to smithereens. The UN isn't perfect, but allowing them to call the shots instead of just America would help get rid of the notion of us simply doing this for economic conquest.

And one more unrelated question. You are a marine, right? If you were in Iraq, how is it you were able to return home so soon, while a vast majority of our forces are still there, with more reserves on the way? Are you writing these posts from the Middle ? Just wondering.
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[midgetbones]

"Btu I believe simply leaving at this point would completely devastate Iraq and the region. America needs to give up CONTROL of Iraq, but at the same time stilol provide security and assistance in rebuilding the country we blew to smithereens. The UN isn't perfect, but allowing them to call the shots instead of just America would help get rid of the notion of us simply doing this for economic conquest. "


I agree with this statement,well mostly. I do not trust the UN. But I agree control of Iraq should not be strictly American.

"And one more unrelated question. You are a marine, right? If you were in Iraq, how is it you were able to return home so soon, while a vast majority of our forces are still there, with more reserves on the way? Are you writing these posts from the Middle ? Just wondering. "

I am a reserve Marine grunt with Kilo Co. 3rd Bn. 23rd Marines that got activated March 5th 2003 in support of Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom. Our unit was over there longer than most units. We returned to Camp Pendelton California September 10th. We were the 3rd to last Marine unit to leave Iraq. The Marine Corps does not do well acting as a "peace time" humanitarian force. We are a shock force, go in do our thing and come out. Remember the Marine Corps is the smallest of the Military branches. The Army is larger, better funded and better equipped to do what stage the war is in right now. Notice the Marines were the very FIRST to go into Baghdad. We do what we do very well. It all starts the first day of Boot Camp. Our mentality is the way we fight. But all this to say, the powers to be decided to pull all but one(I believe it was one) Marine Unit out of Iraq. Now the situation in Iraq has gotten a little more militant and the Marine Corps has a lot to offer this present situation, hence sending the Marines back over and activating more Reserve Marines. Rumor mill has it a few people from my unit have been told they are going back. But it hasn't been talked about much. And it would be impossible to right from the mid-. I was never anywhere near a computer my whole depolyment to Iraq. The Army is the main force over there. We turned our area of operation over to a foriegn force.
Hope this helps explain.
take care.
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[EuroTrash]

Quote:I agree with this statement,well mostly. I do not trust the UN. But I agree control of Iraq should not be strictly American.

It will be completely UN-controlled or nothing. You really thnik the UN is going to clean up your mess UNDER YOUR SUPERVISION? Not only arrogant, but stupid too. Clean up your own mess.

[midgetbones]

"It will be completely UN-controlled or nothing"

So when you speak it will be done huh? We'll see. The UN is weak without us. Now how is that for arrogance?
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[Billybob]

"Now how is that for arrogance? "

Pretty damned arrogant. Kudos.
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[EuroTrash]

Quote:"Now how is that for arrogance? "


Arrogance 7/10
Stupidity 10/10

The Iraq situation is so very obviously showing that the US is NOTHING without the UN. I am not argung with cannon fodder.

[midgetbones]

"The Iraq situation is so very obviously showing that the US is NOTHING without the UN. I am not argung with cannon fodder. "

How is it so "very obviously"(I had to use your excellent grammar) that the US is nothing without the UN?

"I am not arguing with cannon fodder"
You are right, you aren't. Good observation.

Please answer the question though. Prove your statement.
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[Reality]

Maybe the next time there is a world crisis or a dictator slaughtering innocent women and children the United States should defer all military action to the U.N., who can then assign France, Germany, China, et.al. to do the dirty work. Maybe then the U.N. will realize that NOTHING will ever get done without the leadership (not to mention money) of the U.S.A. Right now the U.N. is an irrelevant body of thinkers.
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[yeah but]

..like many old folks, she gets her news from tv.

When dealing with a liberal I look it at it much like dealing with somone who has an addiction. The addiction in the case of the liberal is to self. You need to be up front with them.

Here's some TOUGH LOVE, liberals. This is real. These terrorist will kill you. Liberals' response is smart little one liners, they are amusing themselves to DEATH. Liberalism has reduced our public discourse to a sit com. First we have the women's rights half hour, then the African American half hour, Then "Its The Economy Studid" starring that lovable doctor Howard Dean. Reality is Reality and liberals cann't engage that. It is the obsession with self that liberalism has heaped on our culture that is our achilles' heal.
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[Billybob]

Jeez, you say "get real", but then you persist with this paranoid, fear-induced tripe.

I mean "these terrorist[s] will kill you"???? What does that mean? If I'm walking down the street, and I happen to pass someone who "is" a "terrorist", will they kill me on the spot? Or can we learn that they're not as interested in killing people as they are in making political statements. Look at the September 11th targets. The symbol of American global capitalism, and the headquarters of the military that enforces it. If you think that's crazy, I have to wonder if you've been paying much attention to American forgn policy in the last fifty years. The American military has consistently fought for American business interests, doing MANY MANY appalling things in the process.

Do you honestly believe the boogieman (terrorists in this case) are all out there, waiting to kill you? What are you basing that on? Even in 2001, your odds of bng killed by forgn terrorists were about 3500 out of 250 million. MUCH less than your odds of dying from air pollution, or in a car accident, or because your HMO is too slow to allow you to see a doctor when you need one.

And yet the public perception seems to be that there's this constant threat. Where was that threat before September 11th, 2001? Did it not exist then? Were we EXTREMELY lucky that whole time? We must have been REALLY REALLY lucky, with the odds of a forgn attack so high, and NO FORGN ATTACKS, save for that one very tragic day. Face it, the American public is bng manipulated by an administration that is using the deaths of those people on September 11th to blind us from the REASONS, and use it as a cover to push through any and all legislation they want, be it rolling back environmental legislation, or attacking other countries based on a contrived or percved threat.

In reading your response, I also noticed how you're relying on assertions to prove your point. "This IS real", "these terrorist[s] WILL kill you", "Liberals' response is smart little one liners". Can you produce any evidence that supports any of this? I don't think so. It makes about as much sense as saying "The Godfather IS the best movie ever made". I suggest you speak in the more scientific E-Prime language, which omits the "IS" of identity for the more accurate, "seems to me", or another less arrogant and self-centered term. Do you think you know EVERYTHING? Do you understand multiple intelligences, or that reality is infinitely malleable, as viewed through different people's prisms of perceptions? You should read (or take a class) in general semantics, or neurolinguistic programming. I recommend that HIGHLY to anyone who finds themselves getting angry over differing views and opinions.
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[yeah but]

As a logical person, I will never understand the whys of liberal logic. That's all I'll say about your post.

Do not be one of the useful idiots. Democrats are guilty of treason, and should be tried in a military court Marshall. This is specifically pointed to Jay Rockerfellar. Rockerfellar, in his role on the Senate Intelligence Committee, planned to release top secret information for the purpose of politics. This is a little more signifigant than Mr. Wilson's wife, and whatever story he made up to get into Newsweek.

I do not think you understand the magnitude of the treason bng committed by the Left. The Left is occupied by cowards and nuts, and I truly believe if Bush wins, and he has enough votes to get his judges in we will see the Democratic Party Revolt violently against our nation. Democrats are so filled with venom and hate. They have been so convinced by Dems that thr rights are bng taken away. When in reality it is the plans of the Dems that limit your personal freedoms far greater than 100 patriot acts. They make your like dependent on institutions. National health Care, National Education, you name the big goverment program, it will be thrs. You will a slave to bureaucratic process. Which in reality meas only the wealthy liberals will truly have any freedom.

P.S. I know this might be too complicated for some of you.
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[Billybob]

Wow, that's a lot of text, considering all you're doing is namecalling. Is there a single shred of evidence to support your wrd notion of "liberals" as "treasonous"? Could you possibly point some out?

Look at how inflamatory your comments are, and how they play on emotion, paranoia, and insecurity rather than a real desire to discuss this stuff.

And why are you clinging to the notion that the government under Bush is somehow SMALLER? Sure, state police, schools, and fire departments are smaller, but in terms of government spending, the Bush administration is the best example of "big government" in this century.

And are you suggesting that privatization is the answer? Look at what happens when deregulation occurs. Prices go up, people lose thr jobs, and corporate fraud is FAR more probable. The California energy crisis is the perfect example of this. You remember the old adage of government spending $500 for a hammer? Well, that's directly due to deregulation. Look at the expenditures in Iraq; American businesses are WAY overcharging for the mediocre job they are doing to rebuild Iraq. And they take money away from local Iraqi businesses who would charge far less and do a better job. This isn't some "liberal slander", you can look it up.

And uh, as a "liberal", I really don't particularly feel violent or slanderous. As far as I can tell, it's you who's making wild and scary accusations.
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[yeah but]

Treason is giving comfot to the enemy as the libdems and libmedia do. They embolden the enemy when they do this.
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[Billybob]

Who is "the enemy", and how are they "emboldened" by legitimate criticisms of the Bush administration?
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