Looking for a Liberal

[Conservative]

I am looking for a hard core liberal to open a debate group on yahoo with.I personally am a consevative but I want someone with a different point of view so we can discuss (argue) our views with other people who may or may not agree with us.If you are interested just send me an e-mail letting me know and I will contact you back.My e-mail address is ameriplanprovider@yahoo.com
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[Take the high road]

Two diametricly opposed views would be interesting. Like Hannity & Colmes? This is the right idea Conservative has suggested. You would make a wise choice to follow suit with your publication when it hits the newstands.
Regards.
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[Kimberly Wilder]

Of course you are looking for a liberal to appear as your "FOIL."

That is the old game of Big Brother:

~Good cop/Bad cop

~Left/Right

~Bush/Gore

~Frame the argument in the way that the people in power want you to see it.

~Make one team look really scary so that you run to the other team.

It is a shallow game. And, liberalism disgusts me, anyway.

The real answers are the same ones that have always been good...moderation. (NOT Steve Israel's duh-duh moderation of voting with George Bush 48% of the time. I am talking about moderation as in the ancient Greeks and wives tales.)

The only true path is to make things more democratic, to give power back to people over corporations, and to stregthen local economies and local organizations.

A conservative wants less taxes, so that the rich soak up government services and get off scott-free. A Liberal pretends that we can tax fairly and then dump money into targeted government programs.

The real answer is what our country was founded on: No taxation without representation. That is nther right not left.

The Conservative/Liberal talk show is just another game to confuse and disempower people.

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[djohnson]

The one thing I learned in writing school was never to take any writing assignment for free -- and the conservative poster who started this thread seems to be looking for just that.

But KW, liberalism is about more than a Robin-Hood-style tax system. It's about fairness in general -- making sure certain groups aren't discriminated against, the poor, elderly and children are taken care of, and, in modern times, certain societal safety nets are in place: minimum wage, rent control, health insurance. As far as liberal thought goes, it's about free speech and presses, the separation of church and state and an individual's self-determinism and choice.

It seems you've bought into the poltical definition radio talk show hosts expouse.

The conservative mindset is also more than about cutting taxes. It believes in a tough-love approach to governing. That people are best served when government gets out of the way. A conservative would forego certain freedoms in exchange for an orderly and safe society.

I don't think there are too many people who whole-heartedly are one or the other. In certain matters, I veer to the right. That's why I too, hate those Liberal/Conservative op-ed shows and columns. The participants are caricatures.

I think our times dictate when one ideology or the other is needed more. Right now, with the GOP winning elections and many Dems taking on conservative issues while the economy's tanking, I think it's very important for those who feel strongly about certain liberal issues to come forward.

...but not write free op-eds on yahoo...


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[Kimberly Wilder]

I thought of you when posting my diatribe, and hope you would not take it personally.

I do not even know your views to be "liberal" in the sense I am thinking.

But, I do think that there are real problems with some liberal philosophies. And, liberalism does often end up to be targeted and beaurocratic government programs.

I hope the liberals let go of the term and think of bng progressive or democratic or even freedom-loving.


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[Kimberly Wilder]

I thought about it and found some of my angst against "Liberals."

To me, Conservative are rich people who want to spend thr whole time controlling goverment and making decisions to support the industries they profit from.

Liberals are rich people who want to control government by bng nice to certain groups they decide are oppressed. But, liberals still want to make decisions for me, and they still want to be paid well to be in government.

I think a good leader inspires, motivates, and perhaps even forces people to participate and control thr own government. And, a good leader knows that everyone has thr problems and needs help, not just the people that qualify for food stamps.

The end result of most liberal programs seems to be a lor of kind, government employees running things.

The end result I wish for is for rotating citizen politicians and every person spending time at decision making and Town Hall Meetings.

Again, Darren, you are the nicest liberal I ever met, and progbably know more about it. These are just my thoughts on the abstraction of "Liberal."
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[nassaulaw]

Conservative, Liberal .... and Whacko ... I think Ms. Wilder would make an excellent champion for the lunatic fringe, and keep the mainstream honest! Besides, now that the Long Island Voice has bitten the dust, I need someone new to entertain me.
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[Kimberly Wilder]

Yes, I suppose with the current state of affairs in our country, liking "democracy" is insane.


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[nassaulaw]

I only meant "whacko" in the nicest sense of the word. Today extreme often becomes tomorrow's mainstream. And besides, it is refreshing to hear somebody talk about politics from a genuine social change perspective, as opposed to someone who just wants a job. You keep fighting the good fight! And give use mainstreamers and middle of the road farts hell! Now that the Green and Liberal tags are gone, do you see yourself doing the Working Families thing?
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[djohnson]

We've chatted about the Working Families thing.

The big plus could be, if all the Greens and Liberals flood the WFP we could overwhelm the current leadership and vote them out.



Another plus is, it takes like two or three signatures to run for Congress on the WFP line vs. 3500 through independent petitioning.

I'm only slightly exagerrating.
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[Kimberly Wilder]

Darren,

I am staying Green. Green is not just ballot status. It is a movement.

Also, our state committee may be staying together with the thought that we were elected for two years and we will serve for two years. (It may make nominating a presidential candidate easier next time around.)

The only Working Families people I know are Patricia Eddington who seems okay (though not particularly progressive) and Chuck Pohanka who I really like. So, I don't want to overthrow them. But, I do hope that some people without the loyalty to stay Green go to Working Families and fill out thr platform with environmental and a wider variety of progressive issues.

Roger Snyder realized the logistics of people whose parties lost ballot status reenrolling in another party: That switch does not take effect until after an election cycle. So, if we change now or next October, it makes no difference. I will choose slowly.


Kimberly


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[nassaulaw]

Props to Kim for staying with the Greens even after thr loss of the official line. That is admirable loyalty. And in this day of Pat Mahers, highly refreshing.
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[djohnson]

Hey, WFP ran Pat Acampora, a pro-life, anti-gay Conservative Republican (not that there's anything wrong with that) in my district. Not very progressive. I think they need a gut check almost as much as the Liberal Party did.

I don't think you can be in the pockets of the union bosses and progressive anymore, because union leadership backs strong incumbents who can do them favors, like Pataki. Times have changed.

I'm just thinking it's a waste bng a "blank" for four years.

Open Question: If Pataki resigns to run for another office (say VP in 2004), is there a special election? And, if so, could that election count toward the 50,000?


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[Conservative]

Well actually I just do it for fun,and sometimes I agree with the liberal ideas.I like to see other peoples opinions.As for the writing for free thing,you might as well do it because writing has obviously not taken you anywhere.Dont take that as a cut to you personally,but if you are posting on a message board then you are like everyone else here.(A normal person with an opinion not a columnist)
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[djohnson]

Actually, I'm a professional writer who has earned 90% of my adult income doing one sort of writing/editing or the next. I went to writing school, too! Nothing abnormal about that -- and nothing wrong with posting on a website. These posts take 15 seconds to write, but a good column takes a couple of hours. Time is money.
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[Conservative]

Well then I guess we were both wrong about each other, and for my mistake I apologize.
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