Democrats: Out of Touch with America

[Reality]

Even one of thr own, Sen. Zell Miller (D, Ga) has now come out against the Democratic Party. He has publicly stated that he will vote for Bush in 2004. In his recent book, he details how out of touch the Democratic Party is with mainstream America, and why they are having such a difficult time fielding a viable presidential candidate.

NEWSMAX.COM - The Democratic Party hasn't got a clue about what Americans really want, writes retiring Sen. Zell Miller.

In his new book, ''A National Party No More: The Conscience of a Conservative Democrat,'' due out this fall, Miller, a hard-nosed ex-Marine, charges that the Democratic Party is no longer tapped into the concerns and hopes of Americans, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

Miller, who regularly votes with the GOP majority in the Senate, says bluntly: ''Once upon a time, the most successful Democratic leader of them all, FDR, looked south and said, 'I see one-third of a nation ill-housed, ill clad, ill nourished.' Today our national Democratic leaders look south and say, 'I see one-third of a nation and it can go to hell.' ''

''Many party loyalists will not like what Sen. Miller writes,'' according to a press release from publishers Stroud & Hall. ''Driven by conscience and common sense, Sen. Miller names the self-destructive direction of his party and stubbornly pulls the Democratic family toward reform.''

Miller even questions whether the Democratic Party can field a successful presidential candidate in the future, his press relations firm reported.

The book will look at the campaigns of the last two Democratic presidents, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, and outline those positions on abortion, welfare, gun control, the environment, education, immigration and national security that Miller thinks are more in line with how Americans feel.

Miller, who was appointed to the Senate in 2000 after the death of Republican Paul Coverdell, will retire at the end of 2004, when his term expires.

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[Billybob]

You know, there are PLENTY of Republicans who vehemently oppose the policies of the Bush administration.

But are you saying that this one Senator can speak for all of America? Aren't you grasping at straws?

And besides, are you saying that the hidden majority of Americans support the crazy things the Republicans have done since G.W took office? I highly doubt that. And if they do, it means they're not paying much attention.
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[Nattydread]

He has overtly supported the Republican party on many issues since he stumbled into his office. Besides think about it. Why make the announcement that you are supporting bush..why not just shut up and vote for him if thats your conviction? Well one could surmise that he needs to get the attention of SUCKERS such as you to make a buck on selling his book.

Or, he intentionally wants to hurt the democrats....because that statement won't really help bush as much as it may hurt the democrats. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck..chances are it is a duck!

Miller was never really a democrat. Another fact is the that he is old and southern...and many of those old politicians were once democrats and racist..many have since moved over to the republican party. He just never made the move.

But not to worry ...the stinking economy serves as a great reminder to anyone sensible who might consider voting for bush.

Just the remember...all the contrieved statistics ...hoopla..and hype ...cannot convinced an un-employed person he has a job!

It cannot convince an under-employed person he is getting ahead.

It cannot convince an over-worked, under-insured person he isn't falling behind financially.
It cannot make you suddenly able to afford medical coverage.

It cannot help a 40 year old person with 10 years management experience, and graduate degree understand why an interviewer is asking for his SAT score to use as yet another screening tool becuase he has so much applicant to fill a single position! (check the WSJ)

Those issues will be the proving ground when we take to the ballot box next year!
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[Reality]

Quote:Miller was never really a democrat. Another fact is the that he is old and southern...and many of those old politicians were once democrats and racist..many have since moved over to the republican party. He just never made the move.

So, you're painting him as a racist to discredit him? How do we play the race card...let me count the ways.

Quote:But not to worry ...the stinking economy serves as a great reminder to anyone sensible who might consider voting for bush.

Do your homework...the economy was tanking before Bush. I don't know about you, but I'm making money in the market again, so the economy is coming around.

And your alternative is.....what? Democrats, social programs, and higher taxes?

What is really disturbing about Democrats is that they are playing obstructionist, partisan politics at a time when our country needs to show a united front in Iraq. By doing so, they lend comfort to the enemy. Of that there is no question. Blather on all you want about President Bush, but it is the Democrats who are prolonging this war via thr political posturing. I happen to think thr conduct is disgraceful. So does Sen. Miller, and so does mainstream America. You, Natty are in the minority, and your ranting does nothing but make you feel better when you get done typing your vitriole.

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[No Affiliation]

Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives may as well change the name of thr party to the PMP. (Permanent Minority Party)
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[REBEL]

Two years after Reagan reduced taxes (via Kemp/Roth bill), gdp increased.

Two years after Bush reduced taxes, gdp increased.

Ain't no coincidence.

Economy grows by 7% in third quarter. Larger than any single quarter during the Clinton years.

Unemployment down to 4.8% lower than any point during the Clinton years.

Deficit projections reduced by 10% due to increase tax revenue created by surging economy.

Dow Approaching 10,000 for the first time since Bill CLinton let Enron steal from the poor.
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[Nattydread]

Do you understand math? The record growth by the economy occured mainly because the economy was so depresed to begin with. If this was normal growth because of a vibrant economy..wall street would have reacted to it more positively.

All you have to do is ask any unemployed person if its suddenly easier to find a job today. Or ask an employer if he has any problem getting a million resume for posting a single job. Remember back in the 90's..when we saw articles about employers complaining about finding workers? To Americans today with this administration ..it's like that was all but a dream.

The economy is better off with a slower growth in a healthy state with jobs! Even bush knows this ..he warned you that this 7% growth may be just a flash in the pan!

And so what if you made money on wall street. Many people made money when things soured by shorting stocks...the money just changes hands you dope.

Unemployment at 4.8%..really? I think you mean 14.8%...I won't bother looking that up ..wherever you get that number from every realistic American knows its bogus!

Dow approaching 10,000...it passed 10,000 during the Clinton era.

What I said still holds true..no amount of hype and hoopla can make the millions looking for jobs..
looking for ways to afford health care..
looking for ways to retire in good financial health..
looking for ways to finance thr kids balooning tuition costs
..no hoopla can make us BELIVE THINGS ARE RIGHT WITH THE ECONOMY!
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[REBEL]

That's why Dow is approaching 10,000. Before Election Day 2004, it will far surpass 10,000. Only negative people will not see this.

Job creation is the last thing that happens in a recovering economy. Even the Dems like Terry McAuliff know this, but they won't admit it.

Don't forget, it's pretty damn hard for negative people to get a good job. Lose the negativity.
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[NYIndependence]

Quote:Unemployment at 4.8%..really? I think you mean 14.8%...I won't bother looking that up ..wherever you get that number from every realistic American knows its bogus!
Nattydread, once again successfully debunking documented fact with opinion. Good work.
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[Reality]

Quote:Remember back in the 90's..when we saw articles about employers complaining about finding workers? To Americans today with this administration ..it's like that was all but a dream.

Yeah, those were the "good old days". And, you're right, it was a dream....a PIPE DREAM. Why? Remember the dot-com industry that flourished in the 90's? That is where the jobs were at that time. Anybody who could use a computer got a high paying job. Day traders hit the big time, as stocks rose, and the market hit a new high every day. Unfortunately it was all smoke and mirrors created by speculators. It was an anomoly that will not likely happen again, and Wall Street took too long to recognize it for what it was. The stocks of companies that never turned a profit were run up to ridiculous levels, and IPO's were off the charts. This was the great economic boom of which you speak. When Wall Street finally reacted, it was the beginning of the downward spiral (correction) in the market. It has taken some time for the market to rebound, but rebound it has. There will be a few bumps in the road to recovery, but there always is. The history of the stock market will show this is always true. It will be no different this time around. There won't be any market crash, much as you would like to see one to bolster your arguments here.

Natty, you are the person who always sees a half empty glass, not a half full one. You are the antagonist who, bng in the minority, must rant and rave in the hopes of getting others to listen to a losing argument. Again your hatred for everything Bush is blinding you to reality. You'll be the one on the outside looking in as our economy improves, just like the Democrats will be in the next election (only they'll claim credit for it). Your incessant whining and complaining will do nothing but make you a more bitter person. Time to chill.
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[The Truth Hurts]

"Do you understand math? The record growth by the economy occured mainly because the economy was so depresed to begin with."

The economy has been growing for quite a while now. The recession has been over for about 2 years. You can't explain the huge growth in Q3 by pointing to a statistical anomaly. The large number is not the result of a depressed economy because the economy has not been depressed.

"If this was normal growth because of a vibrant economy..wall street would have reacted to it more positively. "

A large growth rate was expected. The Dow at 9800 reflects a hugely positive reaction, a 14% gain YTD and much higher over the low early in the year.

You may want the economy to be tanking in order to flame Bush, but the facts do not conform to your wishes.


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[Nattydread]

Much the way you guys clucth as straws to justify findings of wmd..is much the same way you all want one period of growth to end over 3.5 years of economic nightmare for America.
I'm not looking for a job ..because I have one. But many of my colleagues from IBM, Lucent, HP, (and I can go on) are still looking for a job for more than a year now. Wanna call all these people negative? And I can tell you my employer will not even post a job offer right now..BECAUSE THERE IS NO REASON TO!

The way you all talk from both sides of your mouths is disgusting! At one time you guys refused to admit we were in a depression. Now ya'll admit it's been over for years now.

For over 3 years now Americans have been hearing the 'ol tired excuse...'job growth is the last to follow in an reviving economy". It's nothing ya'll have any knowledge of..it's just the same ol rhetoric you repeat after hearing over-and-over again on FAUX news!

Even now I'm hearing it and I can tell ya'll it may sound ok...in 2001...it's almost 2004...no-one wants to hear that anymore!

The DOW grew by 14%....really? I keep telling ya'll about those numbers. The DOW must show record growth if it fell below 8,000!


THOSE HUGE SWINGS ARE NOT SIGNS OF A HEALTHY ECONOMY!


You are better off making $60K a year and getting 5% raises than making $20K one year and $50K the next year!


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[NYIndependence]

Quote:The DOW grew by 14%....really? I keep telling ya'll about those numbers. The DOW must show record growth if it fell below 8,000!
So you don't care about economic growth. All you care about is the fact that the DOW was performing poorly to begin with.

It's the economy stupid!
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[jack]

Most people would rather have a sagging economy, than the decadent society that the Democrats would surely produce.
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[Billybob]

What do the stock market have to do with a VAST majority of the economy anyway? MOST of the people in this country can't afford to invest anyway. So it seems what we're discussing here is how much profit corporations and thr executives are making.

Let's examine that too: Companies are cutting costs left and right, slashing payrolls, laying off employees in record numbers, and moving thr business overseas so they can pay thr sweat-shop laborers must less than they'd have to in the US. But wait, the NASDAQ is doing well so EVERYTHING must be okay!

The prices of gas, insurance, groceries, and just about everything else is going up. Deregulation has let power companies vastly overcharge people for thr services. But yup, the COMPANIES are posting record profits, so we must all be okay.

That's exactly why supply-side economics is nothing but B.S. Companies want to cut costs everywhere, so they make higher profits. They generally don't give about about giving all thr employees livable wages or good enough health benefits. They want all the money to go to the top, and so they restructure thr beliefs so that thr getting richer supposedly benefits EVERYONE.
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[The Truth Hurts]

"What do the stock market have to do with a VAST majority of the economy anyway? MOST of the people in this country can't afford to invest anyway. So it seems what we're discussing here is how much profit corporations and thr executives are making."

Here we see that Democrats are out of touch with average Americans. As of the end of 2001, 51.9 per cent of Americans owned stock. So, the majority of Americans do have a stake in its performance.

It seems as if nattydread and billybob just cannot deal with the world as it is. Tthey continue to try and insist that the economy is tanking and kerep trying to incite a class war.

Unfortunately for them, the facts do not correlate with thr fantasy world. I can see how they would be desparate to assert what is not so. Dow 10K and strong sustained economic growth are things that they rightly see as a knife through the heart of Democratic aspitations for retaking of the Presidency and Congress.

There is hope for them, though. It is a death knell for them only as long as they do not adapt to reality. If they can actually start looking at things as they are and advocating how to make things even better instead of falsely claiming that things are horrible and the worst ever, then they might have a chance.

However, that would mean admitting that some of thr base assumptions are wrong. They would probably rather keep thr wrong views and lose than heed the advice of those like Zell Miller and get back on the path of bng relevant again.

As long as the Dems continue to ignore reality, they will continue to lose ground.
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[Billybob]

I'm sorry, I don't think you responded to this point, which I believe is quite important

<<<Let's examine that too: Companies are cutting costs left and right, slashing payrolls, laying off employees in record numbers, and moving thr business overseas so they can pay thr sweat-shop laborers must less than they'd have to in the US. But wait, the NASDAQ is doing well so EVERYTHING must be okay!

The prices of gas, insurance, groceries, and just about everything else is going up. Deregulation has let power companies vastly overcharge people for thr services. But yup, the COMPANIES are posting record profits, so we must all be okay. >>>

Have you not noticed the record unemployment numbers? I know dozens of people, working for many different corporations, and they're ALL seng cutbacks, layoffs, and thr medical coverage shrinking. This is VERY widespread, and it doesn't equate to a healthy economy.

Did you follow the stack market boom of the 90s? People of all economic classes started investing in the stock market, and many companies artificially inflated thr profits so the executives could seel off thr stocks before they crashed. There are HUNDREDS of corporations responsible for this illegal act, and it's a big contributor to the state of the economy today. That's why so many people have invested in the stock market in the past 10 years, and why it DOESN'T mean the economy is doing well.
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[Billybob]

By the way, I do not consider myself a democrat, so it's stupid to rebuke my comments by saying "the democrats are out of touch". But I realize those labels form the basis of your beliefs, so you can call me one if you want.
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[Nattydread]

Take a walk down my street and see the half dozen for-sale signs all because the entire house hold income in those homes have been eliminated. These are educated individuals, with dual income in most cases.

NO 7% growth number can send a more powerfull signal than those sights on my way to and from work!

We hear all this talk about companies having to work off excess inventory and I can tell you in many cases this is not true. Many companies have implemented JIT systems during the 90's (including mine). When the economy stalled they were'nt sitting on ware-houses of inventory, they just didn't have the demand hence they produced less and consequenly layed off workers.

AND THIS 7% growth WILL NOT PRODUCE A SINGLE HIRE AT MY COMPANY! Thats reality!


Want more reality? I'm not on the do-not-call-list. And I can tell you I get calls daily mostly from my local police and fire service..why? Because of severe cut-backs from the local government those units have been dessimated, and reduce to constant begging. They are straved of personnell and resources..THIS HAPPENS WHILE WE GIVE IRAQ $87B!


AND I DO NOT LIVE IN CALIFORNIA!


Want more reality? I voted for bush...and I would vote for him again if I weren't VERY SURE HE'S A BLINKING IDIOT!


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[REBEL]

No matter how hard the libDems wish it weren't so, the economy is improving and will continue to improve. Wishing just won't stop it. Sorry.

The government doesn't create the jobs, the businesses do. What the government can do it stay out of the way and not hurt the businesses by overregulating and over taxing. Bush cut taxes, thereby helping businesses, both large and small. Bush cut the taxes of everyday folks, too, and that helped stimulate the economy.
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[Billybob]

Yeah buy the problem is, American businesses are NOT creating jobs. They're cutting back as much as they can, laying off American workers and moving overseas, or eliminating health care benefits and cutting hours and wages. In many many cases, people will be "promoted" to managers, so they can be worked overtime without overtime pay.

You are absolutely wrong about businesses creating jobs. They should, but at many (and I dare say MOST)corporations are in a rush to cut costs, so they executives and shareholders make as much money as possible. Why do you think giving them more money will help the economy?
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[Nattydread]

Like I said...just the way they grasp at straws to prove they found wmd..much the same way they are trying to say the econony is great!

If a tennant paid his land-lord rent once in 3 years...do you think he should be happy?

I don't know what is so hard to understand about the fact that if people have a paycheck they will spend. If they don't have a pay-check they cannot spend. WHy is that so hard to understand? Low interest rate helps..but what does it mean to an unemployed person ..other than here is an opportunity he cannot take advantage of?

And while the government do not create jobs..they play a role otherwise it'll be chaos.


During the 90's people worked and therfore they spend freely, thats why it worked in the 90's! The recent economic growth was partly because the economy was depressed for so long...are you expecting record growth the next few periods?

It may be true that jobs come last in an economic recovery..whats also true is ..YOU CANNOT RECOVER WITHOUT JOBS!

Because repugs know that there is a dearth of jobs..this one positive indicator ...(IN 3.5 YEARS) ..is bng celebrated as .."THE AMERICAN ECONOMY IS GREAT".

Tell me again who are the ones doing the wishin?
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[REBEL]

I am wishin' and hopin' the economy gets better......and so should you......and it already is.

Billybob, I don't like the fact that some corporations are sending jobs overseas. Democrats and Republicans are both backing that with this free trade nonsense. I'm for a more balanced trade myself.

However, not all corporations are sending all jobs overseas and you will see more jobs over here and soon, because of the Bush tax cuts. You can quote me on this.

Don't forget small businesses employ the majority of workers and they don't tend to go overseas. My family is in all kinds of small businesses, and they have to hire Americans. It would not be practical to do otherwise. One exception, my uncle hired his brother from Italy to be a cook in his restaurant in this country.
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[Billybob]

It's more than just a few corporations moving thr operations overseas.

What is the sign that the economy is getting better? People are still losing jobs, and companies are cutting costs left and right. What you don't seem to understand is, corporations are interesting in only one thing, profit. They don't give a damn (in general) about giving people a liveable wage, or good health care, or paying good overtime. They just want as much money as they can make. That's why giving them a majority of the tax breaks is a TERRIBLE idea. Many of them use tax shelters anyway, and a recent study concluded that HUNDREDS of major corporations in the US actually pay NO taxes. Why should they get the bulk of Bush's tax cuts? If I make $2000 a month, and pay $500 in taxes (a very realistic number), those taxes are more important to ME than a company who makes billions, only having to pay a million back.

And I WOULD quote you about the economic recovery, but I don't believe you'd recognize a failing economy if you saw it. The Bush administration will NEVER admit that it's policies are failing, and a majority of the media doesn't want to do thr homework. So basically, keep watching TV and you'll think everything is okay. After all, the NASDAQ is up for the second day in a row!

But if you live in the ACTUAL world, where states are cutting back heavily on police, firemen, schools, etc. AND people are getting laid off, having thr benefits cut, and bng reclassified as "managers" so they don't have to recve overtime pay. This is happening all over the place, and the sooner people realize it, the sooner we can try to change it. But right now, people are stupid enough to think that giving corporate tax breaks, and removing the estate tax, and other taxes that mainly benefit people who already have money will raise the quality of life for people who are working normal jobs (READ: jobs that are deemed not important enough for the people to live on the money they make in it).
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[goldglove51]

Giants 31
Jets 28 "There comes a time in every man's life, and I've had plenty of them."...Casey Stengel