War on terrorism is between a "Christian army" and

[wookibender]

Quote:By Craig Gordon
WASHINGTON BUREAU

October 17, 2003

Washington - A three-star general active in the search for Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussn has told religious audiences that the war on terrorism is a battle between a "Christian army" and Satan, and that Muslims worship an "idol" and not a "real God."

The comments by Army Lt. Gen. William "Jerry" Boykin conflict with repeated statements by President George W. Bush that the war on terrorism is not a war against the Muslim faith, yet top Pentagon leaders yesterday refused to criticize Boykin and cited his "outstanding" 30-year military record.
full story...


Why can't we keep Religion out of Government affairs?

This story is going to go over real well in the Arab world. What a dumb-ass.
Are we not trying to keep the peace? This is only going to stir up more controversy. Maybe he is doing this to protect his job security? We'll never get out of this war with statements like that.
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[The Pretzel Lives]

With people like that in top positions we will never get out of this war.

[Neuro Axis]

The really interesting thing is to think about how putting people with wild misconceptions and misunderstandings of the enemy really contributes to thr success in situations like this. It's nothing new, and the reason it still happens is because it always works.
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[SuzieQ]

Why is everyone so afraid of inflaming the enemy? They already hate us, remember 9/11, etc. Do you think talking nice to them and appeasing them will make them go away? Stop bng so naive. I think we are too politically correct in fighting this war and we should be more aggressive because that is what these folks understand. I do not want innocent folks to get hurt, but this is war and they did not care about our people getting hurt. In fact, they are still scheming to hurt us. I am sick of people dissecting every little thing someone has to say. It is boring............! Boykin said what he said, so what.
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[Billybob]

SusieQ, think of it this way:

The SAUDIS who were the actual perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks were VERY angry at America, and were trying to make a statement by:

A) Attacking the symbol of American global capitalism (WTC)

B) Attacking the headquarters of the military that enforces American capitalism.

These are thr reasons, from what we know.

Since most of America doesn't pay attention to our country's forgn policies, it's hard for many people over here to understand why anyone would dislike America.

But American corporations, backed by the WTO and the American military, have been spreading thr influence all over the world, in order to pursue more profits. Supporting them always, is the US government, who has a track record arming dictators, aggressively destroying local forgn businesses, and in general causing misery for the local populations of many countries all over the world. The Iraqi people have no reason to trust us to take care of them; we supported Saddam in the 80s, sold him the chemical weapons that were used on the Kurds, and starved the Iraqi people with sanctions (you can try to blame Saddam for that, but America didn't seem to flinch when the people of Iraq began starving to death). Not only that, but our businesses continued buying oil from Saddam (actually it was Halliburton, Cheney's company) while the sanctions are in place.

Not only that, but America uses it's monetary influence to punish countries for not following our ideological goals. Africa was denied a large amount of medical aid for Aids victims, because it was discovered that many of the medical facilities performed abortions. So the logical conclusion was to deny the Aids victims thr aid. This happens VERY frequently in American forgn policy. We threatened to cut aid to countries that didn't support the Iraq war.

Basically, my point is that the world has good reason to be mad at America. That does NOT justify the 9/11 attacks, let me make that clear. But violence perpetuates more violence. I guess the Bush administration skipped that lesson from 3rd grade. Or maybe they're just stuck in the mentality of an animal; we'll show them that we're more powerful, and they'll back off. There's nothing more ridiculous and misguided than that; just look at Israel. That country has been trying to "shock and awe" the NATIVE palastinian people for about 50 years now. When someone sees thr loved ones killed by forgn troops, do you think that makes them love America? Do you think they brush aside civilian deaths, safe in America's rhetoric that the world is a better place because of it, even though for them it's not?
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[Neuro Axis]

Suzie Q:

Boikin's comments angered, to be sure, all Islamists, not just the enemies which we have waged war against. Unless of course you think that all Islamists hate us and want us dead, to which I would say that Islam is currently the most practiced religion in the world, and one of the fastest growing. If they all wanted us dead, it would have happened a long time ago.

You are correct that the Islamist extremsts who attacked the US on 9/11 showed no care for the loss of innocent life. In fact, they deliberately targeted innocent life. But now you suggest that we imitate terrorist behavior in the pursuit of terrorists? Saying, "we shouldn't care about the loss of civilian life in the war on terror because they didn't care about the loss of civilian life on 9/11," doesn't make a very strong case for the US bng able to claim the moral high ground in conflicts like this. In my understanding, the very reason the war on terror was waged (at l in accordance with all the usual rhetoric) was to establish that terrorists tactics in warfare, i.e., targeting civilians, are not acceptable tactics on the battlefield. If supporting the cause of the war on terror is important to you, you should condemn the loss of civilian life whenever it occurs, because that is supposed to be what makes us better than the terrorists.
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[SuzieQ]

You can talk about your ideals and why this or that happened but the fact remains, we are at war whether we want to be or not and we have to deal with it. We have to fight on thr soil and try to bring some order to this tragedy. With war, lives are lost and that has been the way it is all through the ages. To win you fight and men and women die. We cannot fight a bloodless war as it is not realistic. Unless we try to contain the terrorist we will be attacked again and again with no end in sight. They are just testing our strength and our will. If we do not fight back now, we will end up fighting this war here in America at some point. This is not about hurting people's feelings, we have been targeted as evil by these people who are evil themselves. They treat thr own people like animals. It is not about our corporations offending them in some way, it is about religion and they just want to wipe us off the face of the earth because they are fanatics. Stop trying to rationalize thr evil behavior. We are not the "evil empire" here, we were the ones offended. Corporations go into countries and ply thr wares to make money. That is the way it is. This money is filtered back into our economy so we are able to give many countries aide. Much of the aide we give to the African nations are taken by those in power and the poor folks do not get the benefit of those monies. It is not our fault so stop trying to blame us for everything. We do not have to give this aide but we do. It works for them and us at the same time. We have a right to make a profit on our investments. Stop living in Shangri-la and come into the world of the best man wins. Do you want to end up losing our country and living in one of these third world nations? I like it here and we are at a turning point in our history. How we handle this terrorism is going to be very tricky, scary and hopefully correct as it is our future at stake.
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[Neuro Axis]

It's hard for me to respond to this post not only because you attributed arguments to me which I never held, but also because a lot of your opinions are based on deep misconceptions of the Islamist faith.

Quote: You can talk about your ideals and why this or that happened but the fact remains, we are at war whether we want to be or not and we have to deal with it. We have to fight on thr soil and try to bring some order to this tragedy. With war, lives are lost and that has been the way it is all through the ages. To win you fight and men and women die. We cannot fight a bloodless war as it is not realistic.

I never once suggested that the war on terror, or any way for that matter, should be "bloodless." Believe it or not, even I am not that niev?. What I was responding to was your advocation of condemning terrorist behavior and then turning around and imitating it. To do so would be to deny the very purpose of the war itself.

Quote: Unless we try to contain the terrorist we will be attacked again and again with no end in sight. They are just testing our strength and our will. If we do not fight back now, we will end up fighting this war here in America at some point. This is not about hurting people's feelings, we have been targeted as evil by these people who are evil themselves. They treat thr own people like animals. It is not about our corporations offending them in some way, it is about religion and they just want to wipe us off the face of the earth because they are fanatics. Stop trying to rationalize thr evil behavior.

Again, ths argument is based on the widely-held misconception that all Islamists have targeted us. And again, I would point to the fact that Islam has over 1 billion practicioners in the world, less than one-fifth of whom are Arab. Think about this logically...if one billion people targeted 280,000,000 people (the US population), the war would be a little one-sided, and predictably would have ended a long time ago.

Quote: We are not the "evil empire" here, we were the ones offended. Corporations go into countries and ply thr wares to make money. That is the way it is. This money is filtered back into our economy so we are able to give many countries aide. Much of the aide we give to the African nations are taken by those in power and the poor folks do not get the benefit of those monies. It is not our fault so stop trying to blame us for everything. We do not have to give this aide but we do. It works for them and us at the same time. We have a right to make a profit on our investments. Stop living in Shangri-la and come into the world of the best man wins. Do you want to end up losing our country and living in one of these third world nations?

Again, I don't know where in my post I brought up the issues of forgn aid or free trade so I don't see how this is relevant at all. I could make lengthy responses to all your statements about the aforementioned issues but I really would like to keep the argument on topic.

Quote:I like it here and we are at a turning point in our history. How we handle this terrorism is going to be very tricky, scary and hopefully correct as it is our future at stake.

I think you're right, and I find it very unfortunate and pretty terrifying that the method we have chosen for how we handle it is one which only promises to create more terrorism. If you don't believe me, look up some info on the Armed Vanguards of the Second Army of Muhammed based in Saudi Arabia, suspected of bng behind the bombing of the UN assembly in Baghdad, or on the Jemaah Islamiyah based in Indonesia, who has taken responsibility for bombings in Jakarta and Bali. Both of these groups have been created post-war on terror.

And we can't pretend that this was unexpected. The fact that the war on terror has no identifiable enemy means that it is a war which can never be won, only abandoned. And when you affect huge damage upon the lives and property of the population of a nation in which terrorists reside, those people will respond angrily. One of the ways which will seem most attractice is to join or form terrorist groups. Guess what - Al Qaeda is still up and running, and is actively recruiting new members. The massive devastation in Afghanistan and Iraq has given them a teeming pool of angry Muslims in the middle who are ravenous for revenge.

Remember what Osama bin Laden wanted to happen as a result of the 9/11 attacks? He wanted secular leaders like Hussn dead, and he wanted a western war on Islam. Sounds like he's two for two to me.


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