Tax woes continue in GHFD

[GHFDtaxes]

Islip

Tax Woes In Gordon Heights FD Continue
By:Karen Forman Suffolk Life
04/16/2008
In the past, when people have complained about the Gordon Heights Fire District and its high fire taxes, some in the fire department, which is predominantly comprised of black volunteers, have called it a racial issue, saying that it was mainly a small percentage of whites who were complaining.


Not so, claims Mel Robinson, a black resident of Gordon Heights who has lived in the area since 1942. "They pull the race card out, but it's not about race. It's about money. When we signed that petition to have the fire district dissolved, most of the people who signed that petition were black. It's not a black and white issue. The town knows it, the fire district knows it, and we know it."
As previously reported in Suffolk Life, because Gordon Heights has virtually no commercial property their fire taxes are the highest in the town of Brookhaven. "And," Robinson added, "we have halfway houses [and] churches, which are all tax exempt, so the burden falls on us, the 800 homes, paying for a budget that's well over $1 million. The burden is too big; many of us are senior citizens. People are walking away from their homes." Robinson said that the "people running [the fire district] have no concern for us whatsoever. They just spend, spend, spend and do you think they have any remorse about it? No. I just saw them riding around in their brand new fire truck, tooting their horn for all to hear. They have a 20-vehicle fleet and we're all ambulance calls, no fires. It's not fair and it's not right."
"We have no new fire engine," countered Fire Chief Erton Rudder. "I don't know what he's talking about. We're in the process of purchasing one, but we don't have it yet. We just got a new fire police vehicle, which replaced an older vehicle that required a lot of maintenance. It was more cost effective to do that [because it] costs less to maintain. It has an extendable warranty, which is an additional savings to the taxpayers."
But, besides the long-term monetary savings, Rudder pointed out that the new vehicles are necessary for the safety of the community. "What should we say when we arrive late to put out a fire? 'Oh the truck broke down. Sorry we're late.' I don't think that would fly," he stated. "You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. We need a new fire engine. We're replacing one that's 30 years old. That's a good use of taxpayer money."
"They got a new ambulance from [Assemblywoman] Pat Eddington's (WF-Medford) $100,000 grant, which is on order," stated Rosalie Hanson, a GHFD resident since 1986. "They also have on order a fire pumper. This money was coming out of the reserve fund. They're also talking about buying another fire pumper and a new district car, plus a new [sport utility vehicle] for the chief," Hanson added. Rudder confirmed that he did just get a new SUV.
At the last fire district meeting at the beginning of April, said Robinson, "they told us they are buying a new $4,000 vending machine for the fire house. What is wrong with the old one? They're buying anything they can get their hands on, throwing money away. In these economic times, they should be downsizing."
When questioned about a new vending machine, Rudder said, "I'm not going to go back and forth about this. Are these real issues? Do people have complaints about our service? Talking about these petty things is insulting. They should be thanking us for our good service ... Just last month we put out two fires in our district. No one was injured. Those people reaped the benefits of our timely arrival and our state-of-the-art equipment. I don't see that in the paper. This is beyond the tax thing now."
Not quite, according to Deputy Press Secretary Bill Reynolds of NYS Comptroller Tom DiNapoli's office. As previously reported in Suffolk Life, an audit of the fire district was released by DiNapoli's office in February, which identified several areas where the fire district could reduce spending.
Reynolds said the GHFD had 90 days to file a "corrective plan with us. They're down to the last two weeks now and we haven't received one. If we don't receive one by the deadline, they'll be made aware of it and we'll take it from there. It's all about accountability and what their weaknesses are and how they are going to be addressed. The taxpayers need to be aware of this."
Once the district submits their plan, Reynolds said the comptroller's office "will determine if it addresses our recommendations or not and then we take it from there."
When asked if the fire district had filed a corrective plan with the NYS comptroller's office, GHFD Commissioner James Kelly said, "I think it was mailed some time ago. I'm pretty sure we mailed it."
Reynolds, however, said that, as of press time, the state comptroller's office had not received anything from the GHFD.
In the meantime, a number of area residents are so burdened by the high fire taxes that they are trying to sell their homes. Joyce Bourne, 63, is a first-time homeowner who has lived in the area for six years. "I had heard of school taxes, but not fire taxes," she said. "My fire taxes are over $2,400. My friends tell me that I'm crazy, that no fire taxes are that high. But they are ... This isn't America's dream. It's America's nightmare."
She said that she wouldn't have built her home if she'd known it was in the GHFD. "And now these morons are putting in a doggone soda machine that costs thousands of dollars?" she said, adding, "It's our money and they do what they want with it. I don't know how they sleep at night. Four thousand dollars for a soda machine?" Fed up with the whole situation, Bourne demanded, "Can't the state or county give them some guidelines?"
It's not just senior citizens who are being negatively affected by the high fire taxes, according to some. Ashley Hunt and her boyfriend purchased a new townhouse last year in a newly constructed community along Granny Road.
"We are both in our mid-20s and this is our first home," Hunt explained. "When we found this development, we were very excited because it is considered workforce/affordable housing. This means that in order to live in this development, one must be under a certain income bracket."
The development plan listed the community as being in the Medford Fire District, she added. "We were extremely surprised to find out after we had moved in that our particular unit falls in the GHFD. We found this out too late. It's ironic that a workforce housing community exists in the most expensive fire district on Long Island. I really hope that our elected representatives take this matter seriously and do their part to lessen the burden that the GHFD has become on its residents."
"For the people who want to dissolve the fire district, I think it's a money issue," stated Brookhaven Town Fourth District Councilwoman Connie Kepert. "For the people who want to continue the fire district, it's racial pride in having a black fire department. What I've been trying to do all along is try to balance both viewpoints. I've been trying to find a funding stream to help reduce taxes. There is a cell tower that should be coming into the fire district. They've signed a contract. We just have to adopt that as a town board. The fire department will get $100,000 off of that and up to $6,000 a month."
However, Kepert pointed out that "the town is limited in what we can do to increase the funding stream. I've looked at moving fire district lines, we're looking at trying to create additional commercial properties in the fire district. But I can't do this alone. I need other elected officials. I've already met with [US] Congressman Tim Bishop (D-Coram), [New York State] Senator [Ken] LaValle (R-Selden). I've spoken to [US senators Chuck] Schumer (D-NY) and [Hillary] Clinton's (D-NY) offices and Assemblywoman Eddington. I'm trying to meet with Senator LaValle again.
"The GHFD needs budgetary measures in place to reduce their budget," she added. "This problem is not going away. They have to reduce their budget. I'm trying to help in every way I can."
At the last two Brookhaven Town Board meetings, Hanson was waiting to speak out on the issue, but the board didn't allocate enough time for everyone who signed up to speak. She had wanted to say in part that "the GHFD was established by the town of Brookhaven with the stipulation that it would not be an undue burden to the residents. Yet the residents continue to be taxed to death ... The insensitive spending practices by the GHFD commissioners, at a time when many people are losing their homes, is an indication that they do not have the best interest of the residents in this community at heart."
She added that the New York State Commission on Local Government Efficiency and Competitiveness has offered to "help the town of Brookhaven study our problem," and she is urging Brookhaven Supervisor Brian Foley and the rest of the town board to reach out on the community's behalf.
Hanson also noted that a letter recently was sent to LaValle from a GHFD resident living on Park Lane, "explaining that he is living on a fixed income and is forced to cut his medication in half to make them last until the end of the month. The $1,000 more he is paying every year for his fire taxes would go a long way to help pay for his medicine. Those ... who do not face such hardships," she continued, "need to take a closer look as to how my neighbors are living. We are not talking theory here. We are in the trenches of the lives of real people who are financially hurting due to this unnecessary fire tax burden."

[Unregistered4748521]

It is so amazing that the factions in Gordon Heights want to close a valuable entity. WHY..is it that closing the fire department the only answer? If you are so sure that the management (Commissioners) really don't care about the plight of the community residents, why not work to change them? Why haven't you researched how to displace and replace that group?
Okay, you 2400.00 a year in fire tax, that's $200.00 per month. Do you realize that if you had to get a private ambulance to come and get you, each ride would cost between $350.- $400? Believe me, I understand that taxes are high,my are $1500.00 a year, but are you fighting the school taxes, which are a very large part of your tax bill? From what I see in the newspaper, the ones doing all the talking don't have children in the district. Why haven't you question that? No, I hear a lot of chatter about the halfway homes, etc, but Mr. Robinson owned a couple of them at one time. Was there with the fire department then?
I know I have asked alot of questions, can anyone give me some insight, facts not fiction...

[Unreggetthetownship]

It's not Islip town it's brookhaven, we have nothing to do with this...

[Unregistered59863164]

I will pay for the private ambulance that I will use maybe 10 times in my life (thats alot for the average person) vs 200 a month in taxes. Not to mention my insurance will pay for the bill from the ambulance. 2,400 a year thats just insane amount of money when the surrounding areas pay alot less. How do you justify that?

[lbltjag]

The GHFD is a microcosm of the LI volunteer fire service. It is a vivid demonstration of what can happen when selfish thieves are allowed unaccountable access to the taxpayers wallet.

Even other volunteer departments have criticized the burden they subject their taxpayers to. It's pretty bad when even your fellow thieves take a dim view of you.

[21YearProblem]

In response to some of the questions concerning the GHFD tax crisis.

1. Dissolution of a Fire District means to eliminate the financial institution of the fire district. Not necessarily disband the fire department. One option on the table : turn the GHFD into a much desired community center and an ambulance hub.

2. The majority of the residents (from all walks of life) signed a petition to dissolve the fire district. Every single signature was notarized.

3. Over 1 million dollars of the GHFD budget of 1.4+ million dollars comes from within Gordon Heights proper. Meaning, the ones who can least afford it are getting hit the hardest.


4. We have a large number of rental homes. Our concern is not over "decent people renting", it is over the number of County Run homes that are tax exempt and therefore do not contribute to funding the fire district. However, if you read the FRES reports, you will see where a number of the ambulance calls are repeated calls to these homes. Our tax dollars are being spent to take care of the sex offenders that we do not even want in our neighborhood to begin with.

5. Speaking of sex offenders,.. I attend all politiical functions concerning the Sex Offenders in the GH area and I have not seen many GH residents there speaking out against this issue.

6. After the original petition was rejected, the residents have been working
hard at "GETTING ALL THEIR DUCKS IN A ROW" before proceeding with the next petition drive.


7. Changing commissioners will not change the fact that the tax base is too small to continue to support their own fire district.

I hope this has answered your questions/concerns. Please feel to visit our webpage at www.ghfdtax.com Thank you.

[high fire tax]

The State audit department has said that the tax rate cannot be significantly lowered so changing commissioners will not work towards that end

[high fire tax]

When a district is dissolved the town puts the contract out to bid.

Yes we have surrounding depts who should be interested

Any takeover district will greatly benefit

1--over 2 million in assessed valuation

2--well trained firemen who can be absorbed into surrounding district and relieve that district of their burden

3--new ambulances

4--cell tower

[Unregistered852451]

What makes you think that those members dedicated to GHFD, would want to be members of another named district. Also, in the great scheme of things, what happens to the the department members LOSAP? Is it just lost? Lastly, from what I have read, it seems the only district really interested is Yaphank.

[Unregisteredpleasestop]

If you are unable to provide the service to the community that you said you would then a change needs to be made. It is not about how YOU feel it is about the people that are not getting the services that you are getting paid to provide. Please stop this.

[high fire tax]

If the volunteers are dedicated to service and the community they can join the other district THAT IS THEIR CHOICE

Do they really want to give up their reduction in assessment and pick up extra taxes across the board including increased school taxes?

Do they want to give up their ID cards that gets them all sorts of discounts in hotels etc.?

Do they want to give up their pension?

Of course they will not loose their LOSAP-the formulas are calculated by the state and they money in there now will stay there they will just be picked up by the new district.

All the districts are anxious for volunteers--our call volume--so why wouldn't another district want to pick us up?

[High Fire Tax]

Our call volume is low

Our firemen are underutilized

There is a gross imbalance in our mutual aid

[Unregisteredpizza2]

Pizza will take them..............mmmmmmmmmmmmmm pizza!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Unregistered5822]

Pizza will take them..............mmmmmmmmmmmmmm pizza!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gordon Heights likes pizza, as well as their neighbor Coram FD. There are alot of people in that department that likes pizza!!!!!!

[21YearProblem]

What makes you think that those members dedicated to GHFD, would want to be members of another named district. Also, in the great scheme of things, what happens to the the department members LOSAP? Is it just lost? Lastly, from what I have read, it seems the only district really interested is Yaphank.



Any dedicated volunteer would surely continue to serve his/her community. Previous LOSAP payments should already be invested for their future (hopefully, it was not collected as part of our taxdollars and misspent?).

I only question the whereabouts of the LOSAP dollars because several FOILs have been sent to the GHFD concerning the LOSAP funds for our vollies and we have not received any information, to date

[Unregisteredonliiiiiiiii]

Any dedicated volunteer would surely continue to serve his/her community. Previous LOSAP payments should already be invested for their future (hopefully, it was not collected as part of our taxdollars and misspent?).

I only question the whereabouts of the LOSAP dollars because several FOILs have been sent to the GHFD concerning the LOSAP funds for our vollies and we have not received any information, to date


RED FLAG!!

[UnregApril2008]

I am a long-time vollly, and have always resisted the temptation to get involved in the mudslinging that goes on here.

GH's problems are all due to the absence of an adequate tax base (property).

If the average value of a home in GH is $300,000 +/- ?? and the average homeowner pays $2,400 in fire taxes, that's 0.8% of the value of their home.

I can't believe that homeowners in other Suffolk communities where houses are valued $450,000 (just an example) would not object violently if they were asked to to pay $3,600 (0.8%) in annual fire taxes.

Without any commercial property to absorb tax costs, GH needs another source of funds such as cell antenna or needs to merge with another FD that has a broader tax base.

I can't speak to how GHFD spends their money because I'm not familiar with their budgets or bookkeeping practices

[wkt]

???

[21YearProblem]

According to the findings in the 2007 State Audit report.:


www.osc.state.ny.us
Report of Examination
Period Covered:
January 1, 2006 — March 31, 2007
2007M-259
Gordon Heights
Fire District
Internal Controls Over
Financial Operation

“The District has a tax rate of approximately $64 for every $100
of assessed value, the highest of any fire district in the Town of
Brookhaven. A major reason for the District’s high tax rate is that
the District comprises primarily residential properties, with few
commercial properties. Although our audit identified some areas
where the District could have reduced expenses, these potential cost
reductions would have little effect on the District’s tax rate”.

[high fire tax]

for all the information go to www.ghfdtax.com

Thanks, All we want is for people to understand our plight

[21YearProblem]

Our Vollies are well-trained and appreciated. We wish to save our members but dissolve the Management.

www.ghfdtax.com

thank you.

[Unregistered666]

Our Vollies are well-trained and appreciated. We wish to save our members but dissolve the Management.

www.ghfdtax.com

thank you.

Get rid of Trisha Brown she pulls the strings good luck

[iosfjifjis]

You must pay respect to both sides of the picture here:

1.) The Over-burdened taxpayer: Cost of living today in general is pretty crazy, then you add a HUGE fire tax on top of it, and life one the island becomes pretty impossible. Fire tax has been the talk of the island lately, as has many other tax-funded services, but people paying $2,000 and more...that's just unreal! I dont think the taxpayers are complaining about the jobs that the volunteers are doing, but the burden on the taxpayers has made them furious! Money is the root of ALL evil. It pisses people off when they have to pay it out, and it makes people spend it carelessly when they're given too much of it. Its just a fact of life. It sucks, but it is reality.

2.) The Dedicated Volunteers: Although, the taxpayers look at the department as "low call volume" and "evil money spenders", or whatever...these guys dedicated they're free time and give up time with their families for the fire department. Yeah, so they only do about 600 calls a year, but its alot more than that. EMT's train for 6 months, and then have to refresh every 3 years, not to mention CPR and county updates. The new firefighters go through fire training which takes quite a while, not to mention all the other trainings for the firefighters for the entirety of their career. Monthly meetings, trainings, mandatory refreshers...etc. There's always something. It becomes a 2nd or 3rd job for most. Sleepless nights, hours away from the dinner table....it takes alot!

The whole point of this is that it becomes a second family to EVERYONE. Its a brotherhood of people who stick together and have eachother's backs. The firehouse becomes their "home away from home". Most people on the outside dont understand this. The dont understand the enormous amount of pride these volunteers have in their department. Its something that most wont ever understand, unless they're a part of it. So, when the residents of Gordon Heights (the same people that these volunteers protect and help), make up a petition to shut them down, they take it very personally and to heart. Its like having your family ripped apart because your neighbors dont like you. Its like being evicted from your own house because your own neighbors dont like you. They take this all to heart!

*Taking both sides of the story, yes it is a huge burden for the tax payers, and yes it's not something that the volunteers want to happen. The tax payers must take into consideration that these volunteers pay the same taxes they do. If anything they technically are paying double. They pay the high taxes for the service that they are performing for free. So, basically, they are paying to be a member of a thankless job that they dont get a pay check for. Anyone ever look at it that way???? Probably not!

*The other thing is that the volunteers are in the process of leasing out space for a cell tower. This will bring in a big chunk of money, to hopefully ofset a few dollars. I know it may not seem like much, but at least they're trying. They're making an effort to bring in more money from other sources, to help ease the burden on the tax payers. They're open to all options....and there are plenty out there.

*What have the taxpayers done? The answer to that is simple: They're trying to throw these volunteers out of their own home! Thats outrageous! They opened themselves to no other options, but to get rid of them. Kinda selfish huh? Not one ounce of effort to be creative and figure out other ways to bring in money. Instead they bad mouth these guys and kick them while they're down! C'mon...give then a little respect. After all, they' are the ones coming to your house when you need help. And you know what? They will extend they're hand and help you out, even knowing you are the one's trying to get rid of them. Why? Because thats the type of person a volunteer is!

You must look at things from both ends and figure alternative ways to fix the problem together!

[High Fire Tax]

First of all the call volume is very low the firemen only respond to under 60 fire calls a year and half of them are false alarms. I've read all the reports so don't try and sugar coat this.

With all that training don't you think it would be better if they had more opportunity to show off their skills if they served a broader area?

The taxpayers understand your loyalty to each other but do you understand the price you are asking us to pay for your brotherhood not to mention the devastating effect the high taxes have on people who are buying new homes in the area

The cell tower will be in the middle of residential area-20 feet away from the backyards where children are playing--yea nice going THINK CANCER__THINK LOWER HOME VALUES--Do you really think you will be able to revitalize this community with a cell tower in people's backyards.

Oh and yes Trish Brown thinks she is pulling a fast one!

[21YearProblem]

You say we must respect both sides of the picture. But your post was a little one sided and leaned more toward the "brotherhood" then the taxpayer.

First of all No one has ever disrespected our firemen and we appreciate their dedication to this community. hence the words : save the members, dissolve the management posted so clearly on our community web-page.

The majority of our calls are ambulance calls. We have a paid system and the EMS/EMT's are people who do not even live this in this community nor do they contribute any taxdollars to fund the GHFD.

You comment about throwing the firemen out of their house. People in this lower /medium income community have already lost their homes to these
ridiculous taxes. We have a motto here : we do not live in a firehouse and we should not have to lose our homes because of one.

Common sense would be to give this community a MUCH DESIRED community center, and perhaps an ambulance hub. We could still
be The Gordon Heights Fire Company of ..... (one of the surrounding towns).

Originally this land was cut out of the Middle Island Fire District. Therefore, we could be given back to Middle Island, or split amongst the 4 fire districts or simply go into our respective zip codes.

We have no complaint with our firemen. If they are truely the volunteers that you say they are, then they will gladly serve under another fire district and still continue to serve this community.

[UnregisteredGHFD204]

First of all..Let Me Thank You..for stating that I, Patricia A. Wilson-Brown, has so much pull that I could..create..a Tax Woe Problem within the gordon Heights Fire District.
In order to be a part of that creation, I would have had to hold a position on the Board of Fire Commissioners. Many.. of my family memebrs have, but not I.
The fire district was created out of need...and cut around Middle Island , due to circumstances and if you knew the history would know the reason....
I pay fire tax just like the rest of you and mine is just as pricey..but.. I will never agree that the disolution is the answer.
There are many reasons for high tax problems..starting with the the school district..that needs attention.The fire service needed and so is our department.
The question was asked about the membership, what happens to it, as well as the LOSAP. There was no answer, just comments aimed at me.

Whatever I have to say, I will..Should you have further comments about me, personally...please keep them off this post and contact me directly.
Patricia A. Wilson-Brown

[21YearProblem]

I think that is unfair to call out anyone's name on any of these blogs.
I can assure you that no one involved in the Fire Tax Issue fight is blaming you.

Yes, perhaps, there was once a need for the GHFD. Today, the burden of maintaining a fire district in this small community is too much for us to handle.

Consolidation of all special districts is the wave of the future. Probably 20 years down the road. However, the GHFD residents have already been over-burdened with high fire taxes for more than 20 years. Unfortunatley, we, as a home-ownership community will not survive the next 20 years before consolidation of special districts is considered the norm.

I have approached our local elected officials about receiving outside funding for the GHFD, (to be applied to the operating budget). I have yet to hear back from them.

[CI_represents]

Man, this is a massive post. I am getting really confused and dizzy!:p

[21YearProblem]

Man, this is a massive post. I am getting really confused and dizzy!:p


GHFD is only 1.7 sq miles. 800 families. a $60.00 per $100 accessed value
fire tax rate. Average Town of brookhaven Fire tax rate is $ 15.00 per $ 100.00 a/v.

Residents in the GHFD are paying upwards to $ 2700.00 just for fire taxes.

Not everyone who lives in the Gordon Heights Community pays their fire taxes to the GHFD.

Majority of the residents pay to Coram, Middle Island, Yaphank and Medford.
at much cheaper rates.

I personally pay $ 1200.00 to GHFD. I live in the Medford postal zone. My fire taxes would be about $ 300.00 if I were to fall in the Medford Fire District.


We, the majority, who signed a petition to be dissolved from the GH fire district, only wish to pay our fair and equitable fire taxes. Like our neighbors.

www.ghfdtax.com.

[Unregisteredbump]

bump

[21YearProblem]

ALBANY - For the first time, a state commission has recommended taking a hard look at New York's volunteer-led system of fire protection and requiring counties to at least consider assuming more control of their local fire services.

It's such a touchy subject that five of the 15 members of the Commission on Local Government Efficiency - including Long Island's two members - voted against even studying the idea.

But commissioners said they'd heard too many "horror stories" on Long Island and statewide about multiplying Taj Mahal fire stations stuffed with brand new equipment, at a time when volunteer numbers are rapidly dropping.

"Our taxes are far too high, and we can't continue to embrace the status quo and expect things to get any better," said Assemb. Sam Hoyt (D-Buffalo), chairman of the local governments committee and a member of the commission, which presented its recommendations to Gov. David A. Paterson on Wednesday. "I guess they [volunteers] are a powerful constituency, but at some point we have got to learn to say no."

The commission, which drew in part on findings from Newsday's 2005 Fire Alarm series, emphasized that voters would have to approve, through referendum, any move to give their county broader power to coordinate fire services and review equipment and coverage decisions.

Its report proposed a range of other changes to the fire system:

Requiring all E-911 calls and police, fire and emergency medical dispatch to be handled by counties;

Empowering towns to create their own fire departments;

Holding all fire district elections on Election Day or on the same day in spring, run by the county board of elections, and notifying voters by mail of their fire polling place;

Making it easier to dissolve fire districts - a measure inspired by the predicament of angry homeowners in the high-tax Gordon Heights Fire District;

Requiring a detailed study of the state's fragmented fire system, and more reporting on fire spending and budgets;

Devising new incentives tailored to younger volunteers.

Fire officials were unenthusiastic about most of the proposals. Bill Young, counsel for the state fire districts association, said putting towns or counties in charge of fire protection would be "extremely difficult" both logistically and because volunteers sign up only to serve their hometowns. Kirby Hannan, spokesman for the state firemen's association representing the volunteers, agreed.

He argued for a more tailored solution to Gordon Heights' budget problems but favored the idea of county dispatch and new incentives.

Young also argued that reforms passed by the state in the wake of Newsday's 2005 series should be given more time to work.

Nassau Comptroller Howard Weitzman, who along with Sen. Craig Johnson (D-Port Washington) opposed studying county management of fire services, said county control would disrupt the sense of community that makes the volunteer system work.

But Weitzman said he will ask the Long Island Regional Planning Board to study countywide dispatching. "There's a lot of solid research that went into those recommendations, and whether you agree with them or disagree they are clearly worthy of discussion," he said.

Copyright © 2008, Newsday Inc.

[wallflie]

Attention Coram-Medford-Middle Island-Yaphank Firemen

Apparently Commissioner Chesley Ruffin of the Gordon Heights Fire District doesn't think you quys are qualified to serve the Gordon Heights community in a timely fashion--How many times of you Guys been here first!!!

Some brotherhood Chesley

[Unregisteredha]

How about the times the heights was first due to your alarms.

[21YearProblem]

05/07/2008
Residents Up In Arms Over Cell Tower Proposal
By:Karen Forman

In an effort to try to bring down fire district taxes, the Gordon Heights Fire Department is looking into placing a cell tower on its property across the street from the fire house. However, several residents are raising concerns, as the tower would be less than 100 feet from area homes, and for one homeowner, 54 feet from their backyard.



Joyce Bourne, who lives in the Gordon Heights Fire District, said she is upset that residents haven't had any say in the matter. 'The community needs to have a say,' she stated. 'That cell tower would be right around all those homes. Little kids are going to come out and play and get cancer in their little bodies. Have they researched this? I don't want to see anyone get cancer. I had cancer in my breast and my lymph nodes. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies. [Brookhaven Town Fourth District Councilwoman] Connie [Kepert] needs to come into the community and let us know about all the negatives. She's taking away our choices.'
Responding to Bourne's assertions, Kepert said, 'I've been trying to find a funding stream to help reduce taxes. The fire district will get an upfront payment of $100,000 off of the cell tower and up to $6,000 a month.'
As previously reported in Suffolk Life, a number of those living within the GHFD are struggling with the amount of fire taxes they must pay. Residents in the GHFD pay an average of $60 per $100 of assessed home value, while the national average is $11 per $100 of assessed home value, according to the New York State Commission on Local Government Efficiency and Competitiveness.
While residents have been trying to find ways to bring taxes down, and reaching out to local politicians for help, they were not all happy with Kepert's support of the proposed cell tower.
Medford resident Rosalie Hanson, who resides in the GHFD, said that the $6,000 a month is not really going to help bring their taxes down very much. Working off figures provided by the town of Brookhaven, Hanson said she calculated the savings, and that the average household would save $70 a year.
'That barely covers a couple of doctor co-pays after everyone gets sick from the cell tower,' Hanson said. 'I guess it'll buy a tank of gas.' Hanson explained that, because the area does not have any commercial properties to offset taxes, homeowners are hit hard. She also noted that the GHFD's 2007 budget was approximately $1.42 million, adding that $72,000 in extra revenue wouldn't make much of a difference.
'What we really need is $1.2 million in additional revenue each year to bring our taxes in line with the Brookhaven average; $72,000 will not even make a dent.'
'My take on this is it's the same group of people complaining about taxes,' Kepert responded. 'I've been trying to meet with [New York State] Senator Ken LaValle (R-Selden) to get funding. The pressure should be put on those people that can actually help. I heard that the fire district signed a contract with a cell tower company. A lot of fire districts on Long Island have cell towers to help raise revenue. And there are no documented health effects due to the location of cell towers. I don't know why they are objecting. It's these same people trying to stir up the pot here. We've done a lot of research and their concerns are unfounded.'
American Cancer Society spokesperson Sheri Richardson concurs. 'There is no evidence in published scientific reports that cell phone towers cause any health problems,' Richardson said. 'Cell phone towers pose little risk under ordinary conditions. There is no test to measure whether you have been exposed to [radio frequency] radiation from cellular phone towers. However, if there is a cellular phone tower mounted near your home or office, you can ask a government agency or private firm to measure the radio frequency field strength near the tower to ensure that it is within the acceptable range. Cellular phone towers, like cellular phones themselves, are a relatively new technology, and we do not yet have full information on health effects.'
Another issue bothering residents is that the GHFD does not have to garner public input about the cell tower.
'Unfortunately there is no law requiring the fire department to present this to the public,' noted area resident Claudia Price. 'No public hearing is necessary. They don't have to notify the community. But a cell tower in the middle of a residential community is going to decrease our property values and it's a health risk. Will people want to move in when a cell tower is staring them right in the face? The civic should be supporting us. They knew about this cell tower and haven't alerted the community.'
Gordon Heights Civic Association President Tawaun Whitty said she is waiting to sit down with the fire department and go over all the pros and cons, as well as find out exactly how much the tower will decrease taxes. 'If the pros outweigh the cons, if it's not a health risk and it's not going to be an eyesore, then we will support a cell tower,' Whitty said. 'Bringing money into the district is good for the fire department. We are also working to get grants to help the situation any way we can.'
Fire Commissioner Chesley Ruffin confirmed that they are in the planning stages of installing the cell tower right now, and some land has been cleared for it. 'We don't want to do anything to put the community at harm,' he said. 'We're here to help the community. But these people have to realize that there are cell towers all over Long Island. There's one on the old [Suffolk County Police Department] Sixth Precinct building in Coram and Ridge has one in the heart of their community. Cell phones only have a range of half a mile to a mile, so without cell towers no one would be getting good reception.'
This is not the first time the debate over cell towers has come up in the area. In nearby Selden, the Independence Plaza and Omnipoint T-Mobile wanted to place a cell tower about 25 feet in front of the Home Depot store in the parking lot. This would have put the cell tower close to the community, and within 400 feet of one residential home in the area. Debbie Felber, president of the Selden Civic Association, as well other civic members, met with the Omnipoint to stop the project.
Eventually, the community came to a consensus with Omnipoint T-Mobile. The cell tower was constructed at the furthest point of the shopping center, about 1,000 feet from the nearest residential homes. It was a distance that the community felt was safe and had less concerns. However they did fight another cell tower that Omnipoint T-Mobile wanted to put up in another part of town in Selden, right across from Hawkins Path Elementary School. Omnipoint T-Mobile was working with the small medical park across the street from the school to place a cell tower on the facility's property. The civic won that battle and no cell tower was placed there.
In Gordon Heights, the battle over how to decrease fire taxes while maintaining the aesthetics and public health in the area rages on. Instead of placing a cell tower on fire district property, some are calling for the fire district to be dissolved, while others are attempting to increase revenue to keep the fire district intact.
'They tell us to dissolve the fire district but they don't know what will happen on the other side,' Ruffin stated. 'They have no experience. I myself have 25 years of experience. If their house is burning down, can they guarantee that some qualified people will be there in less than 10 minutes to save their home, their property and their family? They like to talk about numbers. The five fire commissioners have over 100 years of experience and they have zero. So why are we listening to them?'
But some residents maintain that while having a fire department is important, the taxes in Gordon Heights are too high and need to be addressed. However, not all of them are convinced that the cell tower is the answer.
This cell phone tower is just a temporary Band-Aid, and is not a viable solution to our real problem,' said GHFD resident Mel Robinson. 'The real problem is that we do not have the tax base to continue to support our own fire district.'

[Unregisteredgdf]

05/07/2008
Residents Up In Arms Over Cell Tower Proposal
By:Karen Forman

In an effort to try to bring down fire district taxes, the Gordon Heights Fire Department is looking into placing a cell tower on its property across the street from the fire house. However, several residents are raising concerns, as the tower would be less than 100 feet from area homes, and for one homeowner, 54 feet from their backyard.



Joyce Bourne, who lives in the Gordon Heights Fire District, said she is upset that residents haven't had any say in the matter. 'The community needs to have a say,' she stated. 'That cell tower would be right around all those homes. Little kids are going to come out and play and get cancer in their little bodies. Have they researched this? I don't want to see anyone get cancer. I had cancer in my breast and my lymph nodes. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies. [Brookhaven Town Fourth District Councilwoman] Connie [Kepert] needs to come into the community and let us know about all the negatives. She's taking away our choices.'
Responding to Bourne's assertions, Kepert said, 'I've been trying to find a funding stream to help reduce taxes. The fire district will get an upfront payment of $100,000 off of the cell tower and up to $6,000 a month.'
As previously reported in Suffolk Life, a number of those living within the GHFD are struggling with the amount of fire taxes they must pay. Residents in the GHFD pay an average of $60 per $100 of assessed home value, while the national average is $11 per $100 of assessed home value, according to the New York State Commission on Local Government Efficiency and Competitiveness.
While residents have been trying to find ways to bring taxes down, and reaching out to local politicians for help, they were not all happy with Kepert's support of the proposed cell tower.
Medford resident Rosalie Hanson, who resides in the GHFD, said that the $6,000 a month is not really going to help bring their taxes down very much. Working off figures provided by the town of Brookhaven, Hanson said she calculated the savings, and that the average household would save $70 a year.
'That barely covers a couple of doctor co-pays after everyone gets sick from the cell tower,' Hanson said. 'I guess it'll buy a tank of gas.' Hanson explained that, because the area does not have any commercial properties to offset taxes, homeowners are hit hard. She also noted that the GHFD's 2007 budget was approximately $1.42 million, adding that $72,000 in extra revenue wouldn't make much of a difference.
'What we really need is $1.2 million in additional revenue each year to bring our taxes in line with the Brookhaven average; $72,000 will not even make a dent.'
'My take on this is it's the same group of people complaining about taxes,' Kepert responded. 'I've been trying to meet with [New York State] Senator Ken LaValle (R-Selden) to get funding. The pressure should be put on those people that can actually help. I heard that the fire district signed a contract with a cell tower company. A lot of fire districts on Long Island have cell towers to help raise revenue. And there are no documented health effects due to the location of cell towers. I don't know why they are objecting. It's these same people trying to stir up the pot here. We've done a lot of research and their concerns are unfounded.'
American Cancer Society spokesperson Sheri Richardson concurs. 'There is no evidence in published scientific reports that cell phone towers cause any health problems,' Richardson said. 'Cell phone towers pose little risk under ordinary conditions. There is no test to measure whether you have been exposed to [radio frequency] radiation from cellular phone towers. However, if there is a cellular phone tower mounted near your home or office, you can ask a government agency or private firm to measure the radio frequency field strength near the tower to ensure that it is within the acceptable range. Cellular phone towers, like cellular phones themselves, are a relatively new technology, and we do not yet have full information on health effects.'
Another issue bothering residents is that the GHFD does not have to garner public input about the cell tower.
'Unfortunately there is no law requiring the fire department to present this to the public,' noted area resident Claudia Price. 'No public hearing is necessary. They don't have to notify the community. But a cell tower in the middle of a residential community is going to decrease our property values and it's a health risk. Will people want to move in when a cell tower is staring them right in the face? The civic should be supporting us. They knew about this cell tower and haven't alerted the community.'
Gordon Heights Civic Association President Tawaun Whitty said she is waiting to sit down with the fire department and go over all the pros and cons, as well as find out exactly how much the tower will decrease taxes. 'If the pros outweigh the cons, if it's not a health risk and it's not going to be an eyesore, then we will support a cell tower,' Whitty said. 'Bringing money into the district is good for the fire department. We are also working to get grants to help the situation any way we can.'
Fire Commissioner Chesley Ruffin confirmed that they are in the planning stages of installing the cell tower right now, and some land has been cleared for it. 'We don't want to do anything to put the community at harm,' he said. 'We're here to help the community. But these people have to realize that there are cell towers all over Long Island. There's one on the old [Suffolk County Police Department] Sixth Precinct building in Coram and Ridge has one in the heart of their community. Cell phones only have a range of half a mile to a mile, so without cell towers no one would be getting good reception.'
This is not the first time the debate over cell towers has come up in the area. In nearby Selden, the Independence Plaza and Omnipoint T-Mobile wanted to place a cell tower about 25 feet in front of the Home Depot store in the parking lot. This would have put the cell tower close to the community, and within 400 feet of one residential home in the area. Debbie Felber, president of the Selden Civic Association, as well other civic members, met with the Omnipoint to stop the project.
Eventually, the community came to a consensus with Omnipoint T-Mobile. The cell tower was constructed at the furthest point of the shopping center, about 1,000 feet from the nearest residential homes. It was a distance that the community felt was safe and had less concerns. However they did fight another cell tower that Omnipoint T-Mobile wanted to put up in another part of town in Selden, right across from Hawkins Path Elementary School. Omnipoint T-Mobile was working with the small medical park across the street from the school to place a cell tower on the facility's property. The civic won that battle and no cell tower was placed there.
In Gordon Heights, the battle over how to decrease fire taxes while maintaining the aesthetics and public health in the area rages on. Instead of placing a cell tower on fire district property, some are calling for the fire district to be dissolved, while others are attempting to increase revenue to keep the fire district intact.
'They tell us to dissolve the fire district but they don't know what will happen on the other side,' Ruffin stated. 'They have no experience. I myself have 25 years of experience. If their house is burning down, can they guarantee that some qualified people will be there in less than 10 minutes to save their home, their property and their family? They like to talk about numbers. The five fire commissioners have over 100 years of experience and they have zero. So why are we listening to them?'
But some residents maintain that while having a fire department is important, the taxes in Gordon Heights are too high and need to be addressed. However, not all of them are convinced that the cell tower is the answer.
This cell phone tower is just a temporary Band-Aid, and is not a viable solution to our real problem,' said GHFD resident Mel Robinson. 'The real problem is that we do not have the tax base to continue to support our own fire district.'

YOu people are all BLACK. No one in the Government cares about black people

[Unregistered987]

Please...Cell towers do NOT cause cancer. It used to be high tension power lines remember. Not one study could ever, ever be replicated to support that nonsense either. This is why pagers ansd cell texts don't work and we still need sirens that wake you up, because idiots like these won't allow towers in their NIMBY.

[21YearProblem]

Please...Cell towers do NOT cause cancer. It used to be high tension power lines remember. Not one study could ever, ever be replicated to support that nonsense either. This is why pagers ansd cell texts don't work and we still need sirens that wake you up, because idiots like these won't allow towers in their NIMBY.


The person expressing her concern if cell towers cause cancer has been fighting cancer for several years. Her fears are real. After all, she had her cancerous breast removed and now is concerned if cell towers will cause cancer. You refer to her as "an idiot" but I wonder if you ever had to suffer through years of chemo, surgeries and the pain she has endured due to cancer.


Do you have a cell tower in your residential neighborhood, unregistered987?

The purpose of the cell tower was to "generate money to help alleviate
the fire tax burden in the GHFD (as per the commissioners mentioned at their June 2006 public meeting). If you "do the math", the amount of money they will be collecting on renting out their property for a cell tower, will in fact do little or nothing to offset our high fire tax rate.

The residents EXPECT and DESERVE a REAL SOLUTION to our problem.

PS : Also, I haven't read one comment that was a complaint about the GHFD "siren" in any of the numerous articles written about the GHFD tax issue.

[WOW This is really bad]

Why not just disband the GHFD, then assign a piece of apparatus from the current GHFD to houses in each of the 3 surrounding towns along with the corresponding membership. If they really have pride in GH they can show it by not bankrupting the town and by still protecting it. The darn place is only 1.7 square miles.

If people want representation just keep the GH Fire District in place with unsalaried Commissioners like all the other LI departments.

Man it can be done by the local government and if they don't then bounch them out of office by vote or appeal to the Atorney General

Look Up Town Law
§ 172-d. Dissolution or alteration of boundaries of fire protection
district when added to an adjoining fire district. Irrespective of the
manner of its original establishment, whenever a fire protection
district adjoins a fire district, the town board of the town in which
such fire protection district is located or, if such fire protection
district be situated in more than one town, the town boards thereof
acting jointly by a majority vote of the members of each of such town
boards may, after a public hearing thereon, (1) dissolve the fire
protection district and add the whole of the dissolved district to the
adjoining fire district or (2) alter the boundaries of the fire
protection district so as to exclude a portion of its territory which
adjoins the fire district and add the excluded portion to such adjoining
fire district; provided that the fire commissioners of the fire
district, in either such case, have consented in writing to such
addition. Such consent shall be acknowledged or proved in the same
manner as a deed to be recorded. Notice of the hearing shall be given,
the hearing held, and the subject matters thereof determined in the
manner provided for a hearing upon the extension of a fire district
under subdivision two of section one hundred seventy-one of this
article, except that the notice of hearing shall state in general terms
the purpose of the hearing, shall specify the fire protection district
to be dissolved or the manner in which it is proposed to alter the
boundaries of the fire protection district, and shall also describe the
boundaries of the fire district as it is proposed to be extended. If,
upon the dissolution of a fire protection district and the addition of
the entire area thereof to a fire district, the fire district would etc, etc, etc...

[Unregistered987]

[QUOTE=21YearProblem;202936]The person expressing her concern if cell towers cause cancer has been fighting cancer for several years. Her fears are real. After all, she had her cancerous breast removed and now is concerned if cell towers will cause cancer. You refer to her as "an idiot" but I wonder if you ever had to suffer through years of chemo, surgeries and the pain she has endured due to cancer.


Do you have a cell tower in your residential neighborhood, unregistered987?

The purpose of the cell tower was to "generate money to help alleviate
the fire tax burden in the GHFD (as per the commissioners mentioned at their June 2006 public meeting). If you "do the math", the amount of money they will be collecting on renting out their property for a cell tower, will in fact do little or nothing to offset our high fire tax rate.

Having cancer and going through chemo doesn't mean the person can now accuse everything she doesn't like of causing that cancer. It is irresponsible to scare people by making unsubstantiated claims like that.
I have 2 family members , one currently having chemo after 6 weeks of radiation. Doesn't change anything, not that it was your business or even relevant.

PS yes there is a tower at the firehouse in my neighborhood.

[high fire tax]

I am curious to know if the cell tower you mentioned is in the middle of a block with 5 houses on the same small block. The proposed cell tower is within 52 feet of a backyard and equally close to other backyards. The property the GHFD will put the cell tower on is across the street from the firehouse so the tower will not be on the firehouse. This will be an ugly structure in the neighborhood.

It was necessary to raise the issue because, unlike other civic associations the GH Civic did not alert the community for their input.

[21YearProblem]

Sorry to hear about your family members going through cancer.

Let's get back on point. We need a real solution, not a desperate attempt to save this fire district that is beyond it's breaking poiint.

The GHFD fire district budget increased by
apprx $800,000 in 8 yrs for 800 residential homes.

Our fire tax rate jumped from $ 32.00 per 100/a/v to $ 63.00 per 100 a/v.

Those buying new homes, with a/v on their property at a much high numbers then older homes, are punished with fire taxes well over
$ 2300.00. Many paying $ 2600.00 just for this one special district.

. This is a lower -medium income community and yet the residents are paying fire taxes compared to school taxes. The fire taxes in this community are unmanageable.

It is sinful that an entity that was once established to enhance this community is now the demise of it and yet the commissioners refuse to
stop spending, downsize or gracefully step down.

Dissolution is the only solution.

www.ghfdtax.com

please visit our community webpage and read "voices from the front line".

Thank you.

[UnregisteredNUTS]

man this is nuts my town has about 33k residents and over 225 ff's our budget works out to be about $150 per person, the GHFD budget works out to be about $714 per person. What the hell are they spending the money on?

Let the other surrounding 4 districts pick up the manpower, apparatus and calls, this is a no brainer....

And I'm an active FF for over 15 years...

[UnregisteredCFDFFW]

man this is nuts my town has about 33k residents and over 225 ff's our budget works out to be about $150 per person, the GHFD budget works out to be about $714 per person. What the hell are they spending the money on?

Let the other surrounding 4 districts pick up the manpower, apparatus and calls, this is a no brainer....

And I'm an active FF for over 15 years...

Thats what has to be done. Make GHFD a substation and everyone will be happy. Taxpayers and Volunteers.

[21YearProblem]

That is our goal = to find common ground that will make vollies happy and give the residents a fair and equitable fire district tax rate.

By turning the GHFD into substation and perhaps even including a much
needed and desired "Gordon Heights Community Center" at the fire house;
this would one option as the Happy Ending we are all striving for.

[Unregistered Vollie FF]

That is our goal = to find common ground that will make vollies happy and give the residents a fair and equitable fire district tax rate.

By turning the GHFD into substation and perhaps even including a much
needed and desired "Gordon Heights Community Center" at the fire house;
this would one option as the Happy Ending we are all striving for.

bullshit, they're screwing the taxpayers you don't have to give them shit. roll them up into the 4 surrounding depat's. if they don't like it let them join some other organization.

what's someone gonna build for me if i'm ripping them off and i don't want to stop. i'll tell you what, a prison cell....

[REALTIME F/F]

man this is nuts my town has about 33k residents and over 225 ff's our budget works out to be about $150 per person, the GHFD budget works out to be about $714 per person. What the hell are they spending the money on?

Let the other surrounding 4 districts pick up the manpower, apparatus and calls, this is a no brainer....

And I'm an active FF for over 15 years...

MAYBE A FF BUT NOT VERY SMART
GH ONLY HAS ABOUT 800 RESIDENTS AND NO COMMERCIAL TAX BASE THERE BUDGET IS PROBALY SMALLER THEN YOUR DISTRICS SALIRIES .WHY DONT THE OTHER 4 DISTRICTS GIVE THEM SOME OF THEIR AREA AFTER ALL THEY COME INTO THEIR BACKYARD.

[21YearProblem]

Why don't the other districts give up tax base? Because that would "hurt" those districts, they would lose tax base and their fire tax rates would increase.

It seems more reasonable to merge 800 residents into the 4 surrounding districts, ADDING to their tax base,- maybe even lowering their fire tax rate.

We are approx a 2.3 million dollar assessed value community with a 1.5 million dollar fire budget. How is that possible? The tax base is too small and budget has been over-inflated for the size of this community. Since the GHFD commissioners refuse to DOWN-SIZE (yes, the residents have requested them to do so).

They refuse to cut the budget, they refuse to downsize, they refuse to work in the best interest of their community.

Dissolution is the only solution. www.ghfdtax.com

[21YearProblem]

Can anyone tell me how Fire Dept Members applications are approved.

ie: if someone wanted to be a fire police, does the Chief approve the application or the fire commissioners?

Is it based on individual fire dept./districts policy? or is there a NYS compliance policy that all fire dept/districts must follow?

thank you.

[Unregisteredsomebody]

Normally to join a fire department you need to fill out a department application as well as back ground check forms for either the Sheriff's office or SCPD.

The application is normally reviewed by the deparments application committee with a possible interview (depending on the department).

Once the background check is returned you must then appear before the BOFC for an interview/vote. If approved by the BOFC then you need to get the department physical.

Once the physical is completed and passed your application is presented before the floor at a deparment meeting, where the depatment is given a small overview of who you are where you live and what house you are respondeing too, if your fire/ems or both etc. You are then voted on and told if your application was accepted.

[21YearProblem]

Normally to join a fire department you need to fill out a department application as well as back ground check forms for either the Sheriff's office or SCPD.

The application is normally reviewed by the deparments application committee with a possible interview (depending on the department).

Once the background check is returned you must then appear before the BOFC for an interview/vote. If approved by the BOFC then you need to get the department physical.

Once the physical is completed and passed your application is presented before the floor at a deparment meeting, where the depatment is given a small overview of who you are where you live and what house you are respondeing too, if your fire/ems or both etc. You are then voted on and told if your application was accepted.


Thank you for the info. It is very much appreciated.

Here is one last question. If the applicant is the spouse of one of the fire commissioners. Does he/she stay in the room while the other 4 fire commissioners discuss the applicatant?

I can undertand why he/she couldn't vote on their own spouse application, but does it stand to reason that he/she would know why he/she own spouse was not accepted?

Since there are 5 commissioners and only 4 get to vote what would happend if the vote was 2 yes / 2 no, where would the applicant stand on being accepted or not accepted?

[qwertyuiop[]]

If there is a conflict of interest between a commissioner and a subject such as a relative applying to the FD, the commissioner will remove him/herself from voting and generally from the room while discussion & a vote a conducted. And the Board does not have to give a reason why they declined an applicant, they may choose to give a reason but they do not have to give one if they choose not to, just like if you applied at a regular job and were declined you'd receive the generic letter stating you didn't get the job.

[what does]

this have to do with your high fire tax rate?

[21YearProblem]

this have to do with your high fire tax rate?

I am just trying to understand Fire dept policies. Since personnel falls under the Fire Dept. I was just curious as to why the Fire Commissioners (the financial entity) would have a say so over who was accepted and who was rejected as a member of the fire department.

[Unr]

I am just trying to understand Fire dept policies. Since personnel falls under the Fire Dept. I was just curious as to why the Fire Commissioners (the financial entity) would have a say so over who was accepted and who was rejected as a member of the fire department.

The fire district is considered the employer under new york state law, they are the ones who insure a member of the fire department, equip them etc. the department is the entity which a person is a member of who the fire district uses as its source of fire protection and are all considered employees of the fire district, which is why a fire district has to approve chiefs elected by the department.

[21YearProblem]

I heard a rumor that fire police are required to carry a firearms? Is this true?

[Unregistered Brutha]

Quit your bitchin if ya don't like it move. Or go down and use the new soda machine

[21YearProblem]

As mentioned at the latest Gordon Heights fire district commissioners meeting,

they want to purchase a house and convert it into an administration office.

[Unregistered4re555]

As mentioned at the latest Gordon Heights fire district commissioners meeting,

they want to purchase a house and convert it into an administration office.

Quit your bitchin if ya don't like it move. Or go down and use the new soda machine

[21YearProblem]

would you like all the residents that signed the petition to move as well?

With all the attention on the GHFD fire commissioners that have not made one attempt to act in the best interest of their community. Currently on their wish list, more bicycles with proper bicycle uniforms, a house to convert to an adm. office, their 2009 installation dinner, re-vamp the kitchen, ....

etc etc etc.

[The Man from U.N.C.L.E]

You're not going to shut the district down and you know it. Your petition got owned by the town when you couldn't put it on the right format, maybe you should of consulted a lawyer before you went and did all that work. The state empathises with your plight but is powerless in a home rule state to do anything but suggest to the town to reconsider it's ownership of your precioussssss petition. Which brings to mind that great legislation about making it easier to dissolve fire districts that the reporters at snoozeday creamed their jockeys over but will be tied up in court for years because NY is a home rule state. It got better when one of you folks went running for commissioner last year as a write in and no one could spell your candidates name the right way. You are laughable.

[Pittbull]

You're not going to shut the district down and you know it. Your petition got owned by the town when you couldn't put it on the right format, maybe you should of consulted a lawyer before you went and did all that work. The state empathises with your plight but is powerless in a home rule state to do anything but suggest to the town to reconsider it's ownership of your precioussssss petition. Which brings to mind that great legislation about making it easier to dissolve fire districts that the reporters at snoozeday creamed their jockeys over but will be tied up in court for years because NY is a home rule state. It got better when one of you folks went running for commissioner last year as a write in and no one could spell your candidates name the right way. You are laughable.

Taxpayers deserve RESPECT. It is our money that funds ALL THE MUNICPLE jobs on Long Island. That INCLUDES TOWN COUNCIL MEMBERS, TEACHERS, POLICE, AND YES FIRE DISTRICT MEMBERS! Remember, LONGWOOD is comprised of what was once several districts. So never say never Bud!

You think because you are in a government position YOU ARE UNTOUCHABLE and YOUR ARROGANCE shows! You reap what you sow. So we will see how this story ends . . .

[errrrrrrrrr]

Here you go sounds like you need some
http://www.uab.edu/images/imedpub/Kleenex.jpg

[21YearProblem]

...but we cannot afford the fire district.

Every community gets "member money" from their councilperson.

Medford is going to get a lovely clock for their park, Bellport got some money for their girls / boy club. etc etc.

Every dollar coming into GH seems to be given to the fire district and it
still doesn't releve the high fire tax burden. And again, the residents must do without because of the "money pit" (Gordon Heights fire district).


We need apprx. 1.1 million dollars removed from the budget in order to
give us the "going fire tax rate".

To understand the problem, please visit our community webpage at
www.ghfdtax.ccom Thank You.

[Unregisteredneighbor]

...but we cannot afford the fire district.

Every community gets "member money" from their councilperson.

Medford is going to get a lovely clock for their park, Bellport got some money for their girls / boy club. etc etc.

Every dollar coming into GH seems to be given to the fire district and it
still doesn't releve the high fire tax burden. And again, the residents must do without because of the "money pit" (Gordon Heights fire district).


We need apprx. 1.1 million dollars removed from the budget in order to
give us the "going fire tax rate".

To understand the problem, please visit our community webpage at
www.ghfdtax.ccom Thank You.

This is not a criticism.... Your Link is wrong. It should be www.ghfdtax.com
The site was very informative. I hope ALL can come to a solution. Unfortunately not everyone will be happy. There is no easy clear cut solution. But you do need a tax break. Good luck

[21YearProblem]

ops.. web-page address. Early morning bleary eyes.

In 1952 the GHFD was established with a petition. Not all the residents signed it - in fact there were two petitions - one by residents who wanted it and one by the residents who didn't want it. I have copies of both.

In life, you cannot make everyone happy - that is why the majority rules.

There is a solution to our high fire tax crisis; we just need to determine what that will be.

thank you.

[good luck citizens]

after reading the article in this past weeks editorials of newsday and last weeks north shore sun I hope you get rid of this example of fd corruption. Maybe the rest of the island will band together and rid themselves of all these perps and bring in a consolidated, more efficient system augmented by paid EMS and firefighyters.

[Hey How About This]

ops.. web-page address. Early morning bleary eyes.

In 1952 the GHFD was established with a petition. Not all the residents signed it - in fact there were two petitions - one by residents who wanted it and one by the residents who didn't want it. I have copies of both.

In life, you cannot make everyone happy - that is why the majority rules.

There is a solution to our high fire tax crisis; we just need to determine what that will be.

thank you.

Why not pettition the 4 surrounding towns to provide fire protection to Gordon Heights for a fixed yearly fee. Much like Atlantic Beach and Long Beach.

Then instead of paying your fire taxes you can make the argument that you have opted for alternative protection, at a lower cost. Ask the Attorney General to rule on your petition. This will leave the GHFD without justification for a significant part, if not the majotiry of its' yearly budget. My guess is that they will deafult in just ofer a year due to a lack of funding and then you folks they can be absorbed into the 4 surrounding towns and your tax costs will drop permanently.

[Unregistered Resident]

we have to do something now these clowns are not only killing us withtaxes but their laughing at us...

[Unregisteredtaxpayer]

i dont know what u complain about. Taxes yes they are high but look at the quality of service you get for your money

[21YearProblem]

No one is complaining about the Vollies.

Our complaint is with the Gordon Heights FIRE DISTRICT
which is the financial entity of the Fire Department.

[Unregisteredtaxpayer]

yes they are the financial entity but they are also volunteers and instead of slamming the fire department and causing them to potentially shut there doors, why dony you get off your lazy ass and find a way to help them financially manage, or to come up with alterior funding. Just becaus you shut down the fire district does not mean your taxes will be lowered. Did you ever consider the debt other deparments will have to take on??????? do you think that will be fair to the taxpayers of other district to assume those debts????? what makes you think the other districts will come over and help???? find an alternative solution. shutting down GHFD is not the solution. they are all volunteers and you are shutting them out.

[21YearProblem]

Our district is the victim of a small tax base compounding the difficulty of eliminating this Killer Fire Tax Hence, consolidating with a larger adjacent fire district or having the Town provide the service directly to spread the cost over a larger tax base would seem to make fiscal and financial sense and should certainly be worthy of exploration. The Town cannot dissolve the GHFD without first establishing a fire protection district. If no one wants to take over the 2.2 a/v community as part of their tax base, then the petition to dissolve wouldn't be a consideration.

[21YearProblem]

The TaxPac group has asked our State, Federal and local elected officials to find recurring outside funding on a permanent basis to help offset the annual costs of the operating budget. To date, no one has been able to come up with a firm binding permanent recurring commitment of funds necessary to achieve the goal of ending the Killer Fire Taxes.

[21YearProblem]

Any debt incurred by the GHFD stays with the residents (after dissolution).

It would be spread out over a period of time and paid off through their property taxes. Or our elected officials could find a way to use alternative funds to pay off any debt facing the residents in the GHFD if and when the district is dissolved.

[21YearProblem]

Lastly, the petitioners have clearly & publicly stated that we have nothing but the upmost respect for the volunteers of the GHFD. As residents of this community, we appreciate their dedication and service to all of us.

[Unregisteredtaxpayer]

so in other words you want to dissolve the ghfr take 20 years to pay of the debt that "stays with the community". so what you are saying in the limelight is you will still be paying this "killer fire tax" till the debt is paid off. you will not see this your children might. there is no short term solution to this. You are creating a havoc of a situation calling to get rid of the volunteers and disband the GHFD for what reason. What are u going to get out of it........20 more years of the same tax rate?????? You my friend have not thought this through. There is alterior funding sorces out there but the community keeps shooting them down.. ooh we dont want fire tax ..... but we dont want cancer. make up your minds. what u are doing is tearing your community apart these are your neighbors work with them to find a solution if not then move find the lowest tax rate on the island and move in there this way you can get raped in the school taxes. i dont hear you complaining about that. is that next disband the schools everyne for homeschool.

[Unregistered????]

?????????????????????????

[Unregistered1]

so in other words you want to dissolve the ghfr take 20 years to pay of the debt that "stays with the community". so what you are saying in the limelight is you will still be paying this "killer fire tax" till the debt is paid off. you will not see this your children might. there is no short term solution to this. You are creating a havoc of a situation calling to get rid of the volunteers and disband the GHFD for what reason. What are u going to get out of it........20 more years of the same tax rate?????? You my friend have not thought this through. There is alterior funding sorces out there but the community keeps shooting them down.. ooh we dont want fire tax ..... but we dont want cancer. make up your minds. what u are doing is tearing your community apart these are your neighbors work with them to find a solution if not then move find the lowest tax rate on the island and move in there this way you can get raped in the school taxes. i dont hear you complaining about that. is that next disband the schools everyone for homeschool.



It's GH aren't they ALL homeschooled ?????????????

[High Fire Tax]

I feel sorry for you "unregistered taxpayer". You are so uninformed it is pathetic. Here's an idea. Why don't you get off your lazy ass and do some research so that when you go on the blog you don't sound like a total idiot. Obviously someone is feeding you false information to make you look like a fool

[Unregisteredtaxpayer]

well i hope you succeed in disbanding the department this way you will be paying the same amount in fire tax and have twice the wait for a fire engine when your house burns down then maybe you will kick yourself in the ass

[high fire tax]

so in other words you want to dissolve the ghfr take 20 years to pay of the debt that "stays with the community". so what you are saying in the limelight is you will still be paying this "killer fire tax" till the debt is paid off. you will not see this your children might. there is no short term solution to this. You are creating a havoc of a situation calling to get rid of the volunteers and disband the GHFD for what reason. What are u going to get out of it........20 more years of the same tax rate?????? You my friend have not thought this through. There is alterior funding sorces out there but the community keeps shooting them down.. ooh we dont want fire tax ..... but we dont want cancer. make up your minds. what u are doing is tearing your community apart these are your neighbors work with them to find a solution if not then move find the lowest tax rate on the island and move in there this way you can get raped in the school taxes. i dont hear you complaining about that. is that next disband the schools everyne for homeschool.

Unregistered Taxpayer Please try to put your brain in gear and learn the facts

Firstly--the debt is minimal--it will be payed off in 20 to 30 years by a small surcharge on your tax bill--So let's see now (try to absorb this) if I pay a $30 yearly surcharge and perhaps Middle Island fire tax of $672.00 a year I will be paying $702.00 a year. That is not a killer fire tax that is a normal fire tax. So your argument is flawed and uninformed!!

Secondly--What other funding sources are you talking about? Please explain. There are no other funding sources. I'm sure if there were the Commissioners have had over 30 years to discover them but they haven't because none exist and besides that is their job not mine.

Thirdly-- The GHFD is small and not competative when it comes to applying for grants. They hired a professional grant writer and even he couldn't get them alternate funding.

Fourth--No one is trying to get rid of the volunteers. They are in the New York State Pension system and their pension follows them. They will also continue to receive a reduction on their taxes . The volunteers can volunteer in the other district. Isn't every district asking for volunteers? If they choose not to that is their business. By the way when there is a fire all the districts respond. Middle Island, Coram and Yaphank are right there.

Fifth-- Did you know 90% of our calls are EMT. Did you know that the EMT responders who do advanced life support are not volunteers but paid independent contractors who also work for the surrounding districts and do not live in the district.

Sixth--I hope I have been able to answer some of your questions. It is a blogger like you who gives Gordon Heights a bad reputation.

[Unregistered852474]

The GHFD Volunteers are not..in the New York State Pension System. That is for employees. The volunteers are a part os a LOSAP Program that is different from the Pension Systemand run through tthe District under state guidelines.
The volunteers may have the chance to go to Middle Island, Yaphank, Coram - but why should a member with any years of service have to start at the bottom again?

[21YearProblem]

Perhaps the Gordon Heights Fire Department Members should be asking the
Gordon Heights Fire Commissioners why they increased the budget by $800,000 in 8 years for 800 residents?

At the end of the day, the GH fire district tax base is too small to continue to support it's own fire district.

[High Fire Taxes]

The GHFD Volunteers are not..in the New York State Pension System. That is for employees. The volunteers are a part of a LOSAP Program that is different from the Pension System and run through tthe District under state guidelines.
The volunteers may have the chance to go to Middle Island, Yaphank, Coram - but why should a member with any years of service have to start at the bottom again?

The State regulates the pension system and the State will be able to work the particulars out. This is not a problem. Guidelines do not vary from district to district.

This happens with airline pilots and is not unusual. This is not unusual in private business and should not be a reason to pay the highest fire taxes on Long Island.

[Unregistered78521582]

Did you notice a reduction in your taxes? How is that possible..if..the District wasn't trying to help themselves

[21YearProblem]

Although we appreciate the $ 54,000.00 reduction in expenditures adopted last year by the Fire Commissioners, the trend at all the GHFD board meetings this year has been to find new ways to spend money.

Just look at the pension abuse reported in Newsday two (2) weeks ago. It is a sad commentary on the state of affairs that ordinary citizens in our community had to uncover a spending abuse that our elected officials should have detected and prevented from ever happening in the first place.

[Unregistered951753]

Why are you blaming the District for that problem, which from what I read was thought to be on the up and up? Are you trying to imply that the District just does things illegal?
Taxes are high all over, when you are done with the District are you ging after the school district whose tax rate is also out of sight, or is it just a fire department witch hunt?

[Unregisteredhim]

Unregistered Taxpayer Please try to put your brain in gear and learn the facts

Firstly--the debt is minimal--it will be payed off in 20 to 30 years by a small surcharge on your tax bill--So let's see now (try to absorb this) if I pay a $30 yearly surcharge and perhaps Middle Island fire tax of $672.00 a year I will be paying $702.00 a year. That is not a killer fire tax that is a normal fire tax. So your argument is flawed and uninformed!!

Secondly--What other funding sources are you talking about? Please explain. There are no other funding sources. I'm sure if there were the Commissioners have had over 30 years to discover them but they haven't because none exist and besides that is their job not mine.

Thirdly-- The GHFD is small and not competative when it comes to applying for grants. They hired a professional grant writer and even he couldn't get them alternate funding.

Fourth--No one is trying to get rid of the volunteers. They are in the New York State Pension system and their pension follows them. They will also continue to receive a reduction on their taxes . The volunteers can volunteer in the other district. Isn't every district asking for volunteers? If they choose not to that is their business. By the way when there is a fire all the districts respond. Middle Island, Coram and Yaphank are right there.

Fifth-- Did you know 90% of our calls are EMT. Did you know that the EMT responders who do advanced life support are not volunteers but paid independent contractors who also work for the surrounding districts and do not live in the district.

Sixth--I hope I have been able to answer some of your questions. It is a blogger like you who gives Gordon Heights a bad reputation.

At least ONE of those districts DO NOT accept members who live OUTSIDE the district.

[21YearProblem]

Why are you blaming the District for that problem, which from what I read was thought to be on the up and up? Are you trying to imply that the District just does things illegal?
Taxes are high all over, when you are done with the District are you ging after the school district whose tax rate is also out of sight, or is it just a fire department witch hunt?

I didn't blame the commissioners who run the GH district for that problem I am just stating the (unnecessary added expenses) in the budgets that add up to 1.4 million dollars in taxpayer dollars. We cannot afford to pay for the necessary things to support this fire district, let alone one misspent dollar on things such as "wedding like" installation dinners,
$15,000 for weekend conventions in Baltimore, unaccounted for gasoline and diesel, etc etc etc.

[high fire tax]

At least ONE of those districts DO NOT accept members who live OUTSIDE the district.

If the DISTRICT you mentioned wins the bid then we become part of that district and thus eligilbe to join. This is only a policy and can be changed.

[21YearProblem]

At least ONE of those districts DO NOT accept members who live OUTSIDE the district.

I don't think any FD accept members who live outside the district.

But we will be a part of a district through a fire protection district or
an actual consolidation. Those members will be eligible to join those districts.

Every FD on LI seems to have a Members Wanted, Vollies Needed signs. So I would find it hard pressed to believe that any FD would turn away well trained firemen who wished to serve their communities.

[UnregisteredE9WNEP]

I don't think any FD accept members who live outside the district.

But we will be a part of a district through a fire protection district or
an actual consolidation. Those members will be eligible to join those districts.

Every FD on LI seems to have a Members Wanted, Vollies Needed signs. So I would find it hard pressed to believe that any FD would turn away well trained firemen who wished to serve their communities.


Don't be surprised.........

[do your research]

The State regulates the pension system and the State will be able to work the particulars out. This is not a problem. Guidelines do not vary from district to district.

This happens with airline pilots and is not unusual. This is not unusual in private business and should not be a reason to pay the highest fire taxes on Long Island.

Each District is an individually funded plan and invested as such. It is not run by the NYS retirement system and different. There is, hopefully, an investment that is contracted, scheduled and would have to continue in deposits to exist under their current plan. It would be complicated, I don't know how easy or leagally it would be to transfer the fund as you propose, hence any assigns to the GH District would have to agree to continue that investment. That's a fact, complication is built right into Town Law, why do you think the politicos are all keeping a polite distance and leaving you holding the tax bag?

[21YearProblem]

Several documents have been FOIL from the GHFD concerning the LOSAP
plan for the members of the GHFD, to date, none have been provided.

[Hello!]

Any debt incurred by the GHFD stays with the residents (after dissolution).

It would be spread out over a period of time and paid off through their property taxes. Or our elected officials could find a way to use alternative funds to pay off any debt facing the residents in the GHFD if and when the district is dissolved.

Don't get me wrong but.
First off where is their debt? If its a bond issue, you must have had a chance to vote on it and you ain't getting out of it, or the payments. Your bad.
If it was a backdoor lease deal for equipment, you residents may have a case but most likely there is a balloon payment in your collective future.
Who is telling you you can restructure municipal debt?
I think $15K for an installation dinner is the least of your collective problems.

If its a service issue, and it sounds like it is, why for such a small district have a paid EMS staff? Just fire, cut out the frills, which I'm sure they have already and break out of the county contract for EMS. Sell the equipment at the best market price and apply to the debt. Go to a meeting and ask the real questions..

[Trust me]

Several documents have been FOIL from the GHFD concerning the LOSAP
plan for the members of the GHFD, to date, none have been provided.

If a LOSAP is in place it was voted on by the residents.
If a LOSAP is in place it has to be a line item on the budget. May be under insurance on the attachment.
If a line item on the budget it had to be listed on the budget during the State required informational meeting this year. I'm sure you got a copy?
You don't need foil to know if it exists then.
If the District does not respond, foil the Town they will because it has to be filed there as well to set the levy. Not detailed, but will be contained as an entry.

Think. Remember Town law is like a squirrel in a highway, it stares straight at you but goes all over the place at the same time.

[21YearProblem]

Was the LOSAP voted on? TaxPac FOIL that info, never supplied.
TOB claims that they don't have the docs either.

yes, There is a line in budget for LOSAP.


I have seen the GHFD file at the town. Skinniest file I have ever seen.

I just wonder where 50/60+ yrs of info went?

Residents in community attend every comm. meeting, however, residents are not allowed to speak during meetings. A letter was sent to comm. asking permission to speak during meetings and the residents were denied (in written format).

[Unregistered7895241]

The LOSAP program was initially proposed and voted in 1990 by the residents of the GHFD. There was also a vote to increase the amounts in the mid to late 90's. All of that information is and always has been on file with the Town..
By the way , fire districts have guidelines for membership. If ever the GHFD was to become a fire protection district, each department would have to amend their memberhsip rules to allow others on the outside to join. I cannot imagine there would be such a change, because of this situation.

[Unregistered...]

....

[UnregisteredTAX]

A Tax is a financial charge or other levy imposed on an individual or a legal entity by a state or a functional equivalent of a state (for example, secessionist movements or revolutionary movements). Taxes are also imposed by many subnational entities. Taxes consist of direct tax or indirect tax, and may be paid in money or as its labour equivalent (often but not always unpaid). A tax may be defined as a "pecuniary burden laid upon individuals or property to support the government […] a payment exacted by legislative authority."[1] A tax "is not a voluntary payment or donation, but an enforced contribution, exacted pursuant to legislative authority" and is "any contribution imposed by government […] whether under the name of toll, tribute, tallage, gabel, impost, duty, custom, excise, subsidy, aid, supply, or other name."[1]

In modern taxation systems, taxes are levied in money, but in-kind and corvée taxation are characteristic of traditional or pre-capitalist states and their functional equivalents. The method of taxation and the government expenditure of taxes raised is often highly debated in politics and economics. Tax collection is performed by a government agency such as Canada Revenue Agency, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in the United States, or Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) in the UK. When taxes are not fully paid, civil penalties (such as fines or forfeiture) or criminal penalties (such as incarceration)[2] may be imposed on the non-paying entity or individual.

[Unregisteredhey21]

The LOSAP program was initially proposed and voted in 1990 by the residents of the GHFD. There was also a vote to increase the amounts in the mid to late 90's. All of that information is and always has been on file with the Town..
By the way , fire districts have guidelines for membership. If ever the GHFD was to become a fire protection district, each department would have to amend their memberhsip rules to allow others on the outside to join. I cannot imagine there would be such a change, because of this situation.

Now look up in the "publication of record" archives for "public notices" That will show any other purchases or permissive referendums. Good luck, I doubt your problem will be solved quickly. This is one hot potato, nobody will touch it until forced.

[21YearProblem]

Thanks for the info. !!!!!!!!!!! Appreciate it.

[Unregisteredxxx]

??/

[21YearProblem]

Does anyone know if money generated from a cell tower that is being leased on Fire District Property can be applied to the operating budget? Are there any guidelines a fire district must adhere to as far as how / where the money can be spent?

Thank you.

[Unregisteredyes and no]

Yes it can, it is income.
The only guidelines are those contained in town law regarding any income and or expenditure within the budget.

Common sensce would lead you to believe that they would take that income off the top of the budget hence reducing the tax levy proportionally.

Also the town planning and building departments would dictate if the tower is permissable, you might want to ask them the status, normally these things are not easily placed.

Another point, while no statements from the public may be allowed at Board meetings, you can send correspondance that will or by law should be read into the record, and pose questions in that form. They may table it or discuss it, either way it is there and can proove constructive denial on the part of the Board in any later litigation from the residents or Town or State.

It is really amazing how your township has not quietly "reached out" to your fire district regarding some type of resolution. Supported better budgeting, pushed some EOC money or grants from the feds or NYS their direction. I'd ask the Town Board members that.

[21YearProblem]

GHFD has received a number of grants from our local elected officials.

Although grant money is appreciated, it cannot be applied to the operating budget, therefore, it doesn't alleviate the financial burden of these crushing killer fire taxes.

Our councilwoman has researched many options to help resolve the problem, but none are available.

The residents have asked for more details concerning the Cell Tower, to date, none have been provided.

The residents have started to address the fire commissioners through written correspondence.

Thanks for your input.

[Unregistered852]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[21YearProblem]

You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
Booker T. Washington

[21YearProblem]

Although we appreciate the $ 54,000.00 reduction in expenditures adopted last year by the Fire Commissioners, the trend at all the GHFD board meetings this year has been to find new ways to spend money.

In the midst of a petition drive that is critical to the future of the community and which may lead to an historic vote on the future of the GHFD, it is business as usual for the commissioners of the Gordon Heights Fire District. As mentioned at the GHFD 8/19/08 Workshop, the commissioners discussed purchasing another
pumper truck, a new district vehicle and revamping the conference room as the community continues to collapse under these crushing killer fire taxes.


Notably absent from their agenda and discussion was any action to correct the expensive pension abuses of the district recently exposed by Newsday in an investigation story.

[21YearProblem]

As mentioned at the last GHFD commissioners meeting, they discussed purchasing another new pumper truck, a district vehicle and revamping the commissioners meeting room.

One of the GHFD Commissioners stated that he has no qualms bumping the operating budget up to 3 million dollars regardless of the fact that the Gordon Heights Community continues to collapse under these crushing killer fire taxes.

PS: the current operating budget is almost 1.5 million dollars.

[Unregisteredlooker]

well if you all went out to get jobs maybe you could afford the fire tax. just out of curiosity how many of you are section8

[21YearProblem]

Those who are on Sec 8, could care less about the Crushing Killer Fire Taxes because someone else is paying the property taxes.

[Unregistered9874562]

Those People..on Section 8..WORK everyday. That is who the program is designed for. They may not be home owners, but, the have a right to affordable housing also. They keep up their homes, sometimes better than some homeowners. Stop dirt bagging the Section 8 Program unless you know what it is all about. The Community Development Program also has a program wherein the participants can BUY their homes.

[21YearProblem]

Your complaint should be with unregisterdonlooker and not with me.

I stated that the people on Sec8 do not pay into the Crushing Killer Fire Taxes, therefore, it is no concern of theirs.

It is the homeowner, who is paying the property taxes, which are financially burdened with these
unnecessary, unaffordable, unreasonable and unfair Killer Fire Taxes.

[Unregisteredgdn]

Those People..on Section 8..WORK everyday.
If you want to call rolling out of bed at 1 pm from a hard night of keepin' it real n' shit then okay.
They keep up their homes, sometimes better than some homeowners.The homeowners must live in a cesspool.

[21YearProblem]

Once the Killer Fire Taxes have been removed from the backs of the homeowners in the GHFD, perhaps we can all afford to hire landscapers to maintain our properties. :)

By eliminating the 1.5 million dollar debt this community is
saddled with year after year trying to support it's own fire district, wouldn't it be wonderful if we could use that money to improve the quality of life in our very own homes!!!!!

www.ghfdtax.com

[soooooo simple]

Its simple..The state should disband the GHFD and forsce The surrounding departments to absorb the district.
The all have updated equipment and more than enough manpower to do the job.use the same first responders and put some of them in the GHFD HQ to centralize
If any of them raise their tax rate with the excuse of needing more funding to handke the extra "work" ,those Commissioners should be outed and thrown from office for taking advantage of the GHFD taxpayers

[Unregistered951753]

The State cannot force any District to take on the GHFD. The taxpaying residents of that District would have to approve such a thing. It wouldnot be cheaper to have a fire protecton district and moving staff around to cover the extra District would be impossible . Extra staff would have to be hired at the expense of the other taxpayers, which isn't fair. Your group continues t complain, yet you did get a reduction in taxes unheard of.
By the way, it seems you can afford landscapers just in case you think no one is looking

[21YearProblem]

If residential owners of land totaling at least 50% of the assessed value of residentially owned property in the GHFD sign the petitions, then the Town of Brookhaven will be compelled to hold a public hearing on the merits of dissolving the district and will then be required to vote on the plan.

The petition is a two-prong process. First the fire protection would have to be established before the GHFD could be dissolved.

sooooooo right ... is so right.

unregistered951753 - your comments ." It would not be cheaper to have a fire protecton district and moving staff around to cover the extra District would be impossible . Extra staff would have to be hired at the expense of the other taxpayers, which isn't fair." .... are unfounded.

(BTW: I personally do not have a landscaper).

[21YearProblem]

Although we appreciate the $ 54,000.00 reduction in expenditures adopted last year by the Fire Commissioners, the trend at all the GHFD board meetings this year has been to find new ways to spend money. 

Just look at the pension abuse reported in Newsday two (2) weeks ago. It is a sad commentary on the state of affairs that ordinary citizens in our community had uncover a spending abuse that the commissioners should never have allowed to happen in the first place.

The items on their latest wish :

ANOTHER new fire pumper truck.

A new district vehicle

Revamp the commissioners room.

[Unregisteredfireprot]

If you dissolve GHFD there is no garantee that you taxes will go down. As a fire protection districts the surrounding districts would bid on the contract. So if ABCFD taxpayers pay on avg $250 a houshold the bid for your protection district could and probably would be alot higher. Hey they could use you to lower their assessments. Just an FYI

[21YearProblem]

GHFD is approx 2.2 million a/v (as a community).

The fire district which absorbs us will get our tax base and our tax dollars.

30,000 people grieved their taxes this year in the TOB, most of them were denied.

[just a neighbor]

But who will absorb your debt ??????

[21YearProblem]

Debt belongs to the residents. What is our debt? I guess you will have to
ask the 5 Commissioners who seem to be on a spending spree. Perhaps
they want to make sure that the community remain in financial ruins that even our Great Grandchildren will paying towards these Crushing Killer Fire Taxes.

....Anyhow, Assets can be sold off and applied to any debt. Another option could be that our local elected POLS can give us a one-time grant to write off the debt that would finally free this community from this unnecessary, unjust, unaffordable financial burden.

[just a neighbor]

OKAY...For arguments sake lets assume the Fire District is absorbed by lets say Coram. You would still need your Fire House operational to address response time. With that being said the costs associated to operate that as a station would exceed the tax contribution from the residents it would service. Based on the 2006 budget contractual expenditues which include insurance, service awards (all the surrounding departments have this in effect),Volunteer fireman workmans compensation totaled $536,414.00. Now lets say the new District tax would be $ 600.00 per family. That would equal (based on the estimate for 900 families but remember not all 900 pay taxes) $ 540,000.00. Almost even, BUT you have other costs associated with the operation: equipment, maintenance, fuel, utilities and of course an annual Installation Dinner (which all surrounding Departments also have). My whole point is any District that absorbs Gordon Heights would have to raise their tax rate in order to cover the funds expended to protect Gordon Heights. Now if the Fire House was completely shut down and their members joined one of the surrounding departments are you willing to WAIT for someone to show from either Coram, Medford, Yaphank or Middle Island.

[wait a second 2]

OKAY...For arguments sake lets assume the Fire District is absorbed by lets say Coram. You would still need your Fire House operational to address response time. With that being said the costs associated to operate that as a station would exceed the tax contribution from the residents it would service. Based on the 2006 budget contractual expenditues which include insurance, service awards (all the surrounding departments have this in effect),Volunteer fireman workmans compensation totaled $536,414.00. Now lets say the new District tax would be $ 600.00 per family. That would equal (based on the estimate for 900 families but remember not all 900 pay taxes) $ 540,000.00. Almost even, BUT you have other costs associated with the operation: equipment, maintenance, fuel, utilities and of course an annual Installation Dinner (which all surrounding Departments also have). My whole point is any District that absorbs Gordon Heights would have to raise their tax rate in order to cover the funds expended to protect Gordon Heights. Now if the Fire House was completely shut down and their members joined one of the surrounding departments are you willing to WAIT for someone to show from either Coram, Medford, Yaphank or Middle Island.

Why not pettition the 4 surrounding towns to provide fire protection to Gordon Heights for a fixed yearly fee. Much like Atlantic Beach and Long Beach. Have them split GH up between them so as not to over burden one town. Keep a single GH station operational but have them also respond into the other districts when needed.

Then instead of paying your fire taxes you can make the argument that you have opted for alternative protection, at a lower cost. Ask the Attorney General to rule on your petition. This will leave the GHFD without justification for a significant part, if not the majotiry of its' yearly budget. My guess is that they will deafult in just ofer a year due to a lack of funding and then you folks they can be absorbed into the 4 surrounding towns and your tax costs will drop permanently.

[Unregisteredstupid]

Your fire tax will not go down. As an independant fire protection district your rate will be higher than what the bidding fire district residents are paying. You still have to pay the fire district debt and for the fire protection from the neighboring district. What do you do if nobody bids on the contract. What are you going to hire Rural/Metro to provide fire and EMS protection? The surrounding districts would be crazy to bid if GHFD could be disbanded who would be next? sorry to bust your bubble

[wallflie]

No one is going to be disbanded next because all Long Island Districts are paying a comparable low rate--Sorry but that argument just doesn't hold water.



You really don't know your facts. The Town crunches the numbers after they receive the petition. The petition is the only way to get competent analysis of the situation. Why not do some research and learn how the process works.

[Midislanderrrrr]

OKAY...For arguments sake lets assume the Fire District is absorbed by lets say Coram. You would still need your Fire House operational to address response time. With that being said the costs associated to operate that as a station would exceed the tax contribution from the residents it would service. Based on the 2006 budget contractual expenditues which include insurance, service awards (all the surrounding departments have this in effect),Volunteer fireman workmans compensation totaled $536,414.00. Now lets say the new District tax would be $ 600.00 per family. That would equal (based on the estimate for 900 families but remember not all 900 pay taxes) $ 540,000.00. Almost even, BUT you have other costs associated with the operation: equipment, maintenance, fuel, utilities and of course an annual Installation Dinner (which all surrounding Departments also have). My whole point is any District that absorbs Gordon Heights would have to raise their tax rate in order to cover the funds expended to protect Gordon Heights. Now if the Fire House was completely shut down and their members joined one of the surrounding departments are you willing to WAIT for someone to show from either Coram, Medford, Yaphank or Middle Island.



If I had to pay higher taxes because Middle Island Fire District absorbed any pert of GHFD I'd be livid!! I hope our commissioners are smarter than that

[21YearProblem]

...and what "IF' your MI fire taxes went down because your tax base increased
by 900 homes? would you be happy with that?

[Unregistereddown]

Why would it lower their taxes they would have to pick up 400-500 extra calls a year. Picking up a fire district again that has no commercial district. bad enough we have two nursing homes to cover. More paid EMS

[midislanderrrrr]

900 more homes to vote no on a much needed firehouse in M.I. But yeah add the homes, add the influx of calls and maybe a couple of GHFD trucks in our overcrowded falling down firehouse. Its bad enough brookhaven shoves new hosuing developments down our throats let alone another 900 homes..with no relief to us only a higher tax base and then you will complain and try to shut us down.. when we dont come to your house fastrer than GHFD could right around the corber from you.

[21YearProblem]

Perhaps Coram will absorb us and then you won't have anything to worry about.

[Unregisteredonlooker]

nobody want that run down piece of trash neighborhood so suck it up and quit your bellyaching either that or go file another frivolous lawsuit to afford your taxed


Oh No i tripped at stop and shop get my phone the lawyer is on speed dial

[concerned neighbor]

nobody want that run down piece of trash neighborhood so suck it up and quit your bellyaching either that or go file another frivolous lawsuit to afford your taxed


Oh No i tripped at stop and shop get my phone the lawyer is on speed dial

Okay I have been reading this for a while now. There have been very good points on ALL sides. But I am getting very angry at the naysayers. WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION. you shoot down every idea that comes across this thread. But you also know that you do not want to pay the taxes. WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION?

To make fun of any household in the Gordon Heights or any other area is just cruel. You do not know what their lives are like. You have no idea what has happened to them over the years. You are classifying them all into one category.

What is your solution oh great and all knowing one?

There is NO easy solution to this problem. Something needs to be done but not at the expense of peoples dignity and respect.

[Unregisteredonlooker]

It must be hard waking up at one in the afternoon and duckin for cover all night long. Hard to come out on the streets at night unless your looking for a prostitute, or to buy drugs. Sounds like alot of fun why dies the 21yearproblem go prostitute herself for taxes there might be her solution

[21YearProblem]

Are you a standup comic? Because I find your comments laughable.

[21YearProblem]

Concerned Neighbor, thanks for your intelligent, caring comments.

and if onlooker lived in GH, he/she would know that the vast majority of people living in this tight-knit community are decent, hardworking middle class people grinding out a daily existence just like everyone else.

The purpose of eliminating these Crushing Killer Fire taxes is to promote more homeownership in the GH community thereby getting rid of the drugs
and prostitutes, that onlooker seems to know so much about.

Been carousing the streets of GH lately, Onlooker? Be careful that don't get arrested by the Suffolk County Police Dept for illegal activities.

Speaking of the SCPD, the tax rate for their professional services, is $31.00 per $100 a/v.

GHFD fire tax rate is well over $ 60.00 per 100 accessed value.

[high fire tax]

Why not pettition the 4 surrounding towns to provide fire protection to Gordon Heights for a fixed yearly fee. Much like Atlantic Beach and Long Beach. Have them split GH up between them so as not to over burden one town. Keep a single GH station operational but have them also respond into the other districts when needed.

Then instead of paying your fire taxes you can make the argument that you have opted for alternative protection, at a lower cost. Ask the Attorney General to rule on your petition. This will leave the GHFD without justification for a significant part, if not the majotiry of its' yearly budget. My guess is that they will deafult in just ofer a year due to a lack of funding and then you folks they can be absorbed into the 4 surrounding towns and your tax costs will drop permanently.

The logical solution would be to divide GH up between the surrounding districts but unfortunately the law does not permit that at this time. However once a fire protection district is in effect for a year if they want to spin off they can.

Let's just get this to the table before our grandchildren and future homeowners are faced with an economic monster then the only ones buying homes in the GHFD will be the county . Some historic legacy that will be!!

[21YearProblem]

The original purpose of the Gordon Heights Community: Homeownership.

GORDON HEIGHTS

Seventy-three years ago, a group of pioneers settled in a community later to be known as Gordon Heights. These pioneers left the metropolitan city of New York for many reasons and migrated to Eastern Long Island to settle with their families, possessions, and dreams. These dreams were very simple. The visions of these early settlers were of a home to raise their families; land to plant and watch God's wonders grow; peace and quiet to share with their neighbors; opportunity to breathe in God's fresh air and an opportunity to give their children more educationally.

[Unregisteredthink]

The logical solution would be to divide GH up between the surrounding districts but unfortunately the law does not permit that at this time. However once a fire protection district is in effect for a year if they want to spin off they can.

Let's just get this to the table before our grandchildren and future homeowners are faced with an economic monster then the only ones buying homes in the GHFD will be the county . Some historic legacy that will be!!

The GH Fire District is a political sub entienty (sp?), of the State of New York, established and empowered by the Township of Brookhaven to levy taxes and provide for fire protection and other emergency services as deemed needed within the confines of the original District as established.

They can maintain their District, but CONTRACT with any party to provide such services. School Districts provide buses for the kids but many CONTRACT for the service. Other than any subordinate debt that the District may currently hold, they could easily contract with surrounding Districts for services and reduce taxes as well as preserving autonomy. Thus saving cost and utilizing resources that have already been paid for.

Think about it..

[concerned neighbor]

I'm not sure if this could be the problem but.....


Could it be that the higher ups - the elected commissioners - do not want to give up their status? their unpaid positions? could this be the underlining issue? They wouldn't be able to go to installation dinners, have use of the district vehicles or make decisions that could possibly benefit themselves in some way shape or form?

I am not trying to under mind the role of the commissioners but I am just thinking some of them are from the old school of thinking - whats in it for me- they might not want to give that up. If they truly were trying to lower the taxes why would they HAVE to fix the district office or buy some many new trucks??

Just food for thought.

[Unregistered2345678]

if you think the commisioners are the problem there is elections every year in december and any homeowner in the GHF disrtict can run for this position it does not have to be a member

[concerned neighbor]

I know that, it was just my food for thought!

Again not trying to be a shit stirrer.... but I think the Commissioners could do a lot more than they say they can.

[21YearProblem]

Our fire district is too small based on the expenditures. We need to cut the budget by over 1.1 million dollars to bring down our tax rate to the average fire tax rate.

Our councilwoman looked into annexing the surrounding districts = that would put an increased tax burden on those districts.

NYS Comptroller did an audit = even if GHFD fixed the problems based on the NYS comptroller's recommendations, it wouldn't be enough to reduce the fire tax rate.

We cannot expand our tax base. We cannot cut the budget enough to decrease the high killer fire tax rate.

Therefore, the only solution is dissolution.

[Unregisteredbulldozer]

How about we bulldoze the entire district this way you don't need a fire department............

[Unregisteredonlooker]

dissolution....... fire proterction district............... doen not equal lower taxes....... it equals overburdening districts that cannot handle calls they do now.......... it equals longer response times.................. it does not equal lower taxes.....

[21YearProblem]

Onlooker ?then what would your suggestions be to put an end to the
killer fire taxes.?

[Unregisteredanswer]

Create a commercial district...............

[21YearProblem]

Commercial district... where and how?

[wallflie]

It would seem to me that if another district took GH over it would ease the burden on the takeover district.

The GH Firemen come trained and ready to serve therefore the other district would find relief because they would have more members to answer the calls.

[Unregistered951258]

The other Districts MUST be willing to change their membership by-laws FOR the members to become a part of their District. Please tell me WHY would a member with many years of service want to become a probationary members under the conditions in which you are trying to impose? Additional members would also cost additional funds for the District they are joining.

[concerned neighbor]

The other Districts MUST be willing to change their membership by-laws FOR the members to become a part of their District. Please tell me WHY would a member with many years of service want to become a probationary members under the conditions in which you are trying to impose? Additional members would also cost additional funds for the District they are joining.

I am confused so correct me if I am wrong but....

If the other Fire Districts expand their boundaries.... then there by-laws would have to be changed. There is no reason to say that the member would have to be a probationary member. There could be a certain amount of time for the new member to become accustomed to the SOP's of the new department. This could be done with classes. But in the mean time there is no reason why the veteran transfered member can not participate as a the fireman he was trained to be.

There is always going to be negatives on each side. But if you need to make it work you can. I also feel as the additional cost wouldn't be that much. They are already trained and ready to go. The district's that did absorb these members would still get the small fire taxes that the original GHFD was getting. RIGHT?? :)

[21YearProblem]

Yes, The fire district that absorbs us will get our tax dollars. We don't get free fire service, we have to contribute too!!!!!! We just want to pay what our neighbors are paying. :)

[RuralMetroinB'haven]

Has anyone figured out which fire district would even want the heights, 2.2 million dollars in assessed valuation aside it's still another 600 or 700 calls a year that they have to answer along with the 1500 plus calls they do per year and to top it of they get a community full of disgruntled tax payers who at some point will probably try to dissolve them too. Call Rural Metro and see if the want to provide service for 500 grand a year before you rely on the possibility that another fire district may contract with town to provide service to you. If I was sitting on a BoFC in one of your neighboring towns (thankfully I'm not near this) I'd vote not, and tell the town to call in a paid crew to take care fo your fire and EMS.

[21YearProblem]

This community is 1.7 sq miles, while average TOB fire districts are 10 sq miles. We are a Unique and Extreme situation because our tax base is too small to sustain our own fire district.

[Unregistered21year]

I gave you the answer find ways to bring commercial property into the district. Clean up your community so somebody might want invest. Till then suck it up. We have enough problems in our own districts without having to pick up you s@#t

[21YearProblem]

we are zoned residential property.


Due to the constraints of state law, no decision dissolve a fire district, create a fire protection district, consolidate, or remain with the status quo can take place unless and until petitions have been filed with the Town Board requesting some form of relief. Just to reassure you on costs, the Town would seek bids from adjoining districts and price out the cost of providing the service directly, as well as take testimony as to the pros and cons of these proposals, are the statutorily required public hearing, before taking action on either petition.

Thus, it is actually in the best interests of property owners on both sides of this issue to sign the petitions and force the Town to secure all of the facts and information necessary to settle the merits of this issue once and for all. To this end, I would encourage all who own taxable real property in the GHFD to sign the petitions.

[UnregisteredDUH]

Petition The Town To Rezone Part Of Your District........;)

[21YearProblem]

If we "redraw' the district lines and take tax base from the other districts, those other districts fire taxes will increase. Something none of us wants.

Our councilwoman can confirm this, as she did a study of this very same
idea back in 2006. If that was the answer to the 21 year problem, it would have already been done by now.

[(911) Remember]

Brothers,
Honor these men everyday in the things you do while wearing The Maltese Cross. Not just on and around September 11th.

Take some time to read through this list and reflect on the sacrifice that these men made.

NEVER FORGET

Joseph Agnello, Lad.118 Lt. Brian Ahearn, Bat.13 Eric Allen, Sqd.18 (D) Richard Allen, Lad.15 Cpt. James Amato, Sqd.1 Calixto Anaya Jr., Eng.4 Joseph Agnello, Lad.118 Lt. Brian Ahearn, Bat.13 Eric Allen, Sqd.18 (D) Richard Allen, Lad.15 Cpt. James Amato, Sqd.1 Calixto Anaya Jr., Eng.4 Joseph Angelini, Res.1 (D) Joseph Angelini Jr., Lad.4 Faustino Apostol Jr., Bat.2 David Arce, Eng.33 Louis A rena, Lad 5 (D) Carl Asaro, Bat.9 Lt. Gregg Atlas, Eng.10 Gerald Atwood, Lad.21

Gerald Baptiste, Lad.9 A.C. Gerard Barbara, Cmd. Ctr. Matthew Barnes, Lad.25 Arthur Barry, Lad.15 Lt.Steven Bates, Eng.235 Carl Bedigian, Eng.214 Stephen Belson, Bat.7 John Bergin, Res.5 Paul Beyer, Eng.6 Peter Bielfeld, Lad.42 Brian Bilcher, Sqd.1 Carl Bini, Res.5 Christopher Blackwell, Res.3 Michael Bocchino, Bat.48 Frank Bonomo, Eng.230 Gary Box, Sqd.1 Michael Boyle, Eng.33 Kevin Bracken, Eng.40 Michael Brennan, Lad.4 Peter Brennan, Res.4 Cpt. Daniel Brethel, Lad.24 (D) Cpt. Patrick Brown, Lad.3 Andrew Brunn, Lad.5 (D) Cpt. Vincent Brunton, Lad.105 F.M. Ronald Bucca Greg Buck, Eng.201 Cpt. William Burke Jr., Eng.21 A.C. Donald Burns, Cmd. Ctr. John Burnside, Lad.20 Thomas Butler, Sqd.1 Patrick Byrne, Lad.101

George Cain, Lad.7 Salvatore Calabro, Lad.101 Cpt. Frank Callahan, Lad.35 Michael Cammarata, Lad.11 Brian Cannizzaro, Lad.101 Dennis Carey, Hmc.1 Michael Carlo, Eng.230 Michael Carroll, Lad.3 Peter Carroll, Sqd.1 (D) Thomas Casoria, Eng.22 Michael Cawley, Lad.136 Vernon Cherry, Lad.118 Nicholas Chiofalo, Eng.235 John Chipura, Eng.219 Michael Clarke, Lad.2 Steven Coakley, Eng.217 Tarel Coleman, Sqd.252 John Collins, Lad.25 Robert Cordice, Sqd.1 Ruben Correa, Eng.74 James Coyle, Lad.3 Robert Crawford, Safety Lt. John Crisci, H.M. B.C. Dennis Cross, Bat.57 (D) Thomas Cullen III, Sqd. 41 Robert Curatolo, Lad.16 (D)

Lt. Edward D'Atri, Sqd.1 Michael D'Auria, Eng.40 Scott Davidson, Lad.118 Edward Day, Lad.11 B.C. Thomas DeAngelis, Bat. 8 Manuel Delvalle, Eng.5 Martin DeMeo, H.M. 1 David DeRubbio, Eng.226 Lt. Andrew Desperito, Eng.1 (D) B.C. Dennis Devlin, Bat.9 Gerard Dewan, Lad.3 George DiPasquale, Lad.2 Lt. Kevin Donnelly, Lad.3 Lt. Kevin Dowdell, Res.4 B.C. Raymond Downey, Soc. Gerard Duffy, Lad.21

Cpt. Martin Egan, Jr., Div.15 (D) Michael Elferis, Eng.22 Francis Esposito, Eng.235 Lt. Michael Esposito, Sqd.1 Robert Evans, Eng.33

B.C. John Fanning, H.O. Cpt. Thomas Farino, Eng.26 Terrence Farrell, Res.4 Cpt. Joseph Farrelly, Div.1 Dep. Comm. William Feehan, (D) Lee Fehling, Eng.235 Alan Feinberg, Bat.9 Michael Fiore, Res.5 Lt. John Fischer, Lad.20 Andre Fletcher, Res.5 John Florio, Eng.214 Lt. Michael Fodor, Lad.21 Thomas Foley, Res.3 David Fontana, Sqd.1 Robert Foti, Lad.7 Andrew Fredericks, Sqd.18 Lt. Peter Freund, Eng.55

Thomas Gambino Jr., Res.3 Chief of Dept. Peter Ganci, Jr. (D) Lt. Charles Garbarini, Bat.9 Thomas Gardner, Hmc.1 Matthew Garvey, Sqd.1 Bruce Gary, Eng.40 Gary Geidel, Res.1 B.C. Edward Geraghty, Bat.9 Dennis Germain, Lad.2 Lt. Vincent Giammona, Lad.5 James Giberson, Lad.35 Ronnie Gies, Sqd.288 Paul Gill, Eng.54 Lt. John Ginley, Eng.40 Jeffrey Giordano, Lad.3 John Giordano, Hmc.1 Keith Glascoe, Lad.21 James Gray, Lad.20 B.C. Joseph Grzelak, Bat.48 Jose Guadalupe, Eng.54 Lt. Geoffrey Guja, Bat.43 Lt. Joseph Gullickson, Lad.101

David Halderman, Sqd.18 Lt. Vincent Halloran, Lad.8 Robert Hamilton, Sqd.41 Sean Hanley, Lad.20 (D) Thomas Hannafin, Lad.5 Dana Hannon, Eng.26 Daniel Harlin, Lad.2 Lt. Harvey Harrell, Res.5 Lt. Stephen Harrell, Bat.7 Cpt. Thomas Haskell, Jr., Div.15 Timothy Haskell, Sqd.18 (D) Cpt. Terence Hatton, Res.1 Michael Haub, Lad.4 Philip T. Hayes, Eng.217 (Ret) Lt. Michael Healey, Sqd.41 John Hefferman, Lad.11 Ronnie Henderson, Eng.279 Joseph Henry, Lad.21 William Henry, Res.1 (D) Thomas Hetzel, Lad.13 Cpt. Brian Hickey, Res.4 Lt. Timothy Higgins, S.O.C. Jonathan Hohmann, Hmc.1 Thomas Holohan, Eng.6 Joseph Hunter, Sqd.288 Cpt. Walter Hynes, Lad.13 (D)

Jonathan Ielpi, Sqd.288 Cpt. Frederick Ill Jr., Lad.2

William Johnston, Eng.6 Andrew Jordan, Lad.132 Karl Joseph, Eng.207 Lt. Anthony Jovic, Bat.47 Angel Juarbe Jr., Lad.12 Mychal Judge, Chaplain (D)

Vincent Kane, Eng.22 B.C. Charles Kasper, S.O.C. Paul Keating, Lad.5 Richard Kelly Jr., Lad.11 Thomas R. Kelly, Lad.15 Thomas W. Kelly, Lad.105 Thomas Kennedy, Lad.101 Lt. Ronald Kerwin, Sqd.288 Michael Kiefer, Lad.132 Robert King Jr., Eng.33 Scott Kopytko, Lad.15 William Krukowski, Lad.21 Kenneth Kumpel, Lad.25 Thomas Kuveikis, Sqd.252

David LaForge, Lad.20 William Lake, Res.2 Robert Lane, Eng.55 Peter Langone, Sqd.252 Scott Larsen, Lad.15 Lt. Joseph Leavey, Lad.15 Neil Leavy, Eng.217 Daniel Libretti, Res.2 Carlos Lillo, Paramedic Robert Linnane, Lad.20 Michael Lynch, Eng.40 Michael Lynch, Lad.4 Michael Lyons, Sqd.41 Patrick Lyons, Sqd.252

Joseph Maffeo, Lad.101 William Mahoney, Res 4 Joseph Maloney, Lad.3 (D) B.C. Joseph Marchbanks Jr, Bat.12 Lt. Charles Margiotta, Bat.22 Kenneth Marino, Res.1 John Marshall, Eng.23 Lt. Peter Martin, Res.2 Lt. Paul Martini, Eng.23 Joseph Mascali, T.S.U. 2 Keithroy Maynard, Eng.33 Brian McAleese, Eng.226 John McAvoy, Lad.3 Thomas McCann, Bat.8 Lt. William McGinn, Sqd.18 B.C. William McGovern, Bat.2 (D) Dennis McHugh, Lad.13 Robert McMahon, Lad.20 Robert McPadden, Eng.23 Terence McShane, Lad.101 Timothy McSweeney, Lad.3 Martin McWilliams, Eng.22 (D) Raymond Meisenheimer, Res.3 Charles Mendez, Lad.7 Steve Mercado, Eng.40 Douglas Miller, Res.5 Henry Miller Jr, Lad.105 Robert Minara, Lad.25 Thomas Mingione, Lad.132 Lt. Paul Mitchell, Bat.1 Capt. Louis Modafferi, Res.5 Lt. Dennis Mojica, Res.1 (D) Manuel Mojica, Sqd.18 (D) Carl Molinaro, Lad.2 Michael Montesi, Res.1 Capt. Thomas Moody, Div.1 B.C. John Moran, Bat.49 Vincent Morello, Lad.35 Christopher Mozzillo, Eng.55 Richard Muldowney Jr, Lad.07 Michael Mullan, Lad.12 Dennis Mulligan, Lad.2 Lt. Raymond Murphy, Lad.16

Lt. Robert Nagel, Eng.58 John Napolitano, Res.2 Peter Nelson, Res.4 Gerard Nevins, Res.1

Dennis O'Berg, Lad.105 Lt. Daniel O'Callaghan, Lad.4 Douglas Oelschlager, Lad.15 Joseph Ogren, Lad.3 Lt. Thomas O'Hagan, Bat.4 Samuel Oitice, Lad.4 Patrick O'Keefe, Res.1 Capt. William O'Keefe, Div.15 (D) Eric Olsen, Lad.15 Jeffery Olsen, Eng.10 Steven Olson, Lad.3 Kevin O'Rourke, Res.2 Michael Otten, Lad.35

Jeffery Palazzo, Res.5 B.C. Orio Palmer, Bat.7 Frank Palombo, Lad.105 Paul Pansini, Eng.10 B.C. John Paolillo, Bat.11 James Pappageorge, Eng.23 Robert Parro, Eng.8 Durrell Pearsall, Res.4 Lt. Glenn Perry, Bat.12 Lt. Philip Petti, Bat.7 Lt. Kevin Pfeifer, Eng. 33 Lt. Kenneth Phelan, Bat.32 Christopher Pickford, Eng.201 Shawn Powell, Eng.207 Vincent Princiotta, Lad.7 Kevin Prior, Sqd.252 B.C. Richard Prunty, Bat.2 (D)

Lincoln Quappe, Res.2 Lt. Michael Quilty, Lad.11 Ricardo Quinn, Paramedic

Leonard Ragaglia, Eng.54 Michael Ragusa, Eng.279 Edward Rall, Res.2 Adam Rand, Sqd.288 Donald Regan, Res.3 Lt. Robert Regan, Lad.118 Christian Regenhard, Lad.131 Kevin Reilly, Eng.207 Lt. Vernon Richard, Lad.7 James Riches, Eng.4 Joseph Rivelli, Lad.25 Michael Roberts, Eng.214 Michael E. Roberts, Lad.35 Anthony Rodriguez, Eng.279 Matthew Rogan, Lad.11 Nicholas Rossomando, Res.5 Paul Ruback, Lad.25 Stephen Russell, Eng.55 Lt. Michael Russo, S.O.C. B.C. Matthew Ryan, Bat.1

Thomas Sabella, Lad.13 Christopher Santora, Eng.54 John Santore, Lad.5 (D) Gregory Saucedo, Lad.5 Dennis Scauso, H.M. 1 John Schardt, Eng.201 B.C. Fred Scheffold, Bat.12 Thomas Schoales, Eng.4 Gerard Schrang, Res.3 (D) Gregory Sikorsky, Sqd.41 Stephen Siller, Sqd.1 Stanley Smagala Jr, Eng.226 Kevin Smith, H.M. 1 Leon Smith Jr, Lad 118 Robert Spear Jr, Eng.26 Joseph Spor, Res.3 B.C. Lawrence Stack, Bat.50 Cpt. Timothy Stackpole, Div.11 (D) Gregory Stajk, Lad.13 Jeffery Stark, Eng.230 Benjamin Suarez, Lad.21 Daniel Suhr, Eng.216 (D) Lt. Christopher Sullivan, Lad.111 Brian Sweeney, Res.1

Sean Tallon, Lad.10 Allan Tarasiewicz, Res.5 Paul Tegtmeier, Eng.4 John Tierney, Lad.9 John Tipping II, Lad.4 Hector Tirado Jr, Eng.23

Richard Vanhine, Sqd.41 Peter Vega, Lad.118 Lawrence Veling, Eng.235 John Vigiano II, Lad.132 Sergio Villanueva, Lad.132 Lawrence Virgilio, Sqd.18 (D)

Lt. Robert Wallace, Eng.205 Jeffery Walz, Lad. 9 Lt. Michael Warchola, Lad.5 (D) Capt. Patrick Waters, S.O.C. Kenneth Watson, Eng.214 Michael Weinberg, Eng.1 (D) David Weiss, Res.1 Timothy Welty, Sqd.288 Eugene Whelan, Eng.230 Edward White, Eng.230 Mark Whitford, Eng.23 Lt. Glenn Wilkinson, Eng.238 (D) B.C. John Williamson, Bat.6 (D) Capt. David Wooley, Lad.4

Raymond York, Eng.285 (D)


And don't forget the other 2,630 innocent victims of this cowardly act. May they, their families and friends find peace.

[21YearProblem]

As discussed by the commissioners at the Sept 9th, 2008 GHFD commissioners meeting, the roof on the GH Fire House is leaking and needs to be repaired and there is not enough money in the General fund
to cover this expense. The commissioners are going to ask their attorney, William Glass, if it is legal to move money from the Reserve Fund into the General Fund to cover the cost.

Meanwhile, as the GHFD community is clearly suffering from Economic Devastation, the GHFD commissioners approved the purchase of a new district vehicle for $ 20,000.00 by "Permissive Referendum".


There is not enough money to repair the leaking roof on the fire house but the commissioners continue to want unnecessary luxuries such as a district car.

[21YearProblem]

The GHFD Budget has been reduced by $ 24,000. In real terms, the Killer Fire Tax rate will only be reduced by $1.00, netting most residents a savings of about $ 20.00 off their tax bill.

As quoted by Commissioner Mr. Kelly of the GHFD in the North Shore Sun " the district was able to shave off $24,000 from the budget by projecting rental revenue for a cell phone tower that will be completed on the firehouse grounds this year".

Which confirms the findings in the NYS Audit report, although potential cost reductions exist, they will have little effect on the District's tax rate.

[Unregisteredtaxpayer]

Quit griping you moron No matter what they do to cut costs it is not good enough for you why do you not just move or kill yourself and get it over with. you will not be happy until that place is shut down. Dont you see they are trying. I hope your house burns down and they all take there time to get there.,

[21YearProblem]

As discussed at the latest GHFD commissioners meeting:

They wish to purchase :

1. Another new fire pumper truck

2. Another new ambulance

3. A district car


The Chief wants to stencil the word VOLUNTEER on all the trucks.


One Commissioner opposes. And I quote "In a way you are deceiving the public because we have a lot of paid members".

Attorney William Glass was in attendance. Arrived 8:45 pm

The budget meeting is Oct 21st, however, they are going to holding an open forum on Nov 12th to answer any Questions. Attorney William Glass along with local elected officials will be in attendance
at the Public Open Forum.
7-9 pm. GHFD Fire House.


As the number of foreclosed and boarded up homes rapidly increase within the Gordon Heights Fire District, the commissioners continue to talk of purchasing large ticket items such as more fire trucks and district cars.
It just goes to show how disconnected they are from the people they serve and how contemptuous they are of the petition drive and the people signing to dissolve the district that we can no
longer afford to support.

[High Fire Taxes]

Quit griping you moron No matter what they do to cut costs it is not good enough for you why do you not just move or kill yourself and get it over with. you will not be happy until that place is shut down. Dont you see they are trying. I hope your house burns down and they all take there time to get there.,

What smart idea. If all the people who signed the petition boarded up their houses or turned them over to tax free shelters then guess what!!!Your tax rate would be $250 per $100 of assessed valuation but then you'd be happy because everyone moved and you can sit there and stroke your shinny new fire trucks . You obviously don't give a hoot about the community.

Personally I'll stick with the experts, who all stated at the Vision that the fire taxes are a serious problem and a roadblock to revitalization of the community. Oh- But silly me I forgot -this isn't about the community.

[High Fire Taxes]

Last night's Board Meeting meeting was the same- talk low -send notes across the table- state we will talk about that latter.The meeting was called into executive session. We left the room, however a fireman, the chief and department secretary remained. As usual they violated the rules of executive session to give themslves a chance to discuss spending our money rather than in front of the public. The law is very clear about executive session.

[UnregisteredCFD]

Last night's Board Meeting meeting was the same- talk low -send notes across the table- state we will talk about that latter.The meeting was called into executive session. We left the room, however a fireman, the chief and department secretary remained. As usual they violated the rules of executive session to give themslves a chance to discuss spending our money rather than in front of the public. The law is very clear about executive session.

Sounds like a board meeting in Coram!

[NotJustCoram]

Sounds like a board meeting in Coram!

Could be anywhere on Long Island.

They all play the game.

[21YearProblem]

At the latest GHFD commissioners meeting, the commishs call for an Executive session but fail to state why, the residents removed themselves from the bard room while the chief and others stayed behind. All while their Attorney sat there and did not tell them that
they were breaking the law.

Oh yea, that's right, he's part of the Killer Fire Tax problem, as well.

[Unregistered truth]

Just sign, I'll fill you in later, we need to act now. Many people haven't even seen the FULL petition just like the last one they only show you what they want to.

please READ what you are signing....the fact is there's 2 ladies who call themselves a representative of Gordon Heights community asking the community to sign a petition to save taxes. Take your time and READ what you are signing before it's too late. Why would you sign something to dissolve your fire department before there's another plan in place. Have you seen a commitment from the other FD's and a plan how to protect your home if you get rid of your FD? Would you sign a contract on your home and say we'll fill in the blanks later? Would you move to another corporation without knowing what your salary & benifits will be to find out they want to pay you what a college student earns and now it's too late because you made the decision to move.

Let's keep it REAL!! Where do these ladies live and what does there home look like? One of the ladies doesn't live in GH but she's telling you to close your FD. Do your research before you sign anything because it might mean you loose. Are the taxes high? Absolutely but is dissolving the FD the only solution? I think NOT!!! Let the state, Town, & county give us aid like they do else where. If the community came out and told our elected officials we want our FD please give us aid like other communities do they would listen. But as long as you let these 2 ladies be you spokesperson you're in trouble. They have NO experience in the fire service they are going of what they call [I]logic[I] and their feelings, what makes sence to them etc.....

Let's improve on what we have do not destroy it. There are other ways before dissolving a FD.

[Unregistered atty]

At the latest GHFD commissioners meeting, the commishs call for an Executive session but fail to state why, the residents removed themselves from the bard room while the chief and others stayed behind. All while their Attorney sat there and did not tell them that
they were breaking the law.

Oh yea, that's right, he's part of the Killer Fire Tax problem, as well.



what does the law stae about executive session? Please don't insult me & be specific law name & section

[21YearProblem]

The Facts Are :

1. Residents Are Presented With The Whole Petition.


2. The Fire District Cannot Be Dissolve Unless There Is Another Plan In Place. A Plan Cannot Be Formulated Until The Petition Is Acted Upon By The Town Of Brookhaven.

3. If One Of The Ladies Doesn't Live In The Ghfd, Then Why Is She Paying $2600.00 In Gordon Heights Fire Taxes?


4. At The Gh Vision, Our Councilwoman Stated That She Has Gone Through Every Channel Seeking Financial Aide For Ghfd And There Is No Money. Btw: Ghfd Has Rec'd Plenty Of Grant Money.
$100,000 For An Ambulance, $ 5,000 For A Knock Down Door, Etc Etc Etc


5. Obama Speaks Of 'change' And Moving Forward To The 21st Century. If We Continue To Live In The Past,
We Will Have No Future.

[Unregistered101011111]

I hope this answers your question:


New York Department of State
Committee on Open Government
Open Meetings Law
Public Officers Law, Article 7



105. Conduct of executive sessions. 1. Upon a majority vote of its total membership, taken in an open meeting pursuant to a motion identifying the general area or areas of the subject or subjects to be considered, a public body may conduct an executive session for the below enumerated purposes only, provided, however, that no action by formal vote shall be taken to appropriate public moneys: a. matters which will imperil the public safety if disclosed; b. any matter which may disclose the identity of a law enforcement agent or informer; c. information relating to current or future investigation or prosecution of a criminal offense which would imperil effective law enforcement if disclosed; d. discussions regarding proposed, pending or current litigation; e. collective negotiations pursuant to article fourteen of the civil service law; f. the medical, financial, credit or employment history of a particular person or corporation, or matters leading to the appointment, employment, promotion, demotion, discipline, suspension, dismissal or removal of a particular person or corporation; g. the preparation, grading or administration of examinations; and h. the proposed acquisition, sale or lease of real property or the proposed acquisition of securities, or sale or exchange of securities held by such public body, but only when publicity would substantially affect the value thereof. 2. Attendance at an executive session shall be permitted to any member of the public body and any other persons authorized by the public body

[21YearProblem]

The average fire tax bill in neighboring Medford is $ 350.00 as compared to the Killer Fire Taxes in the Gordon Heights fire district, where the average bill is more than $1,300.

The district's taxes are high because Gordon Heights lacks a commercial tax base, the average tax bill has dipped since 2005, when it was $1,344.

The GHFD has cut their budget by over $80,000 in the past 3 years, netting the residents a savings of approx. $ 44.00

In reality, we need to "shave" nearly One Million dollars from the operating budget in order to give us an affordable fire tax rate.

[Unregistered savings]

how do you know the FD needs to cut 1mil to have equal fire tax? Where do you come up with these figures? I spoke to the town assessor's office in length and they told me each year they get the budget and based on assessed evaluation which changes every year they have an equalization formula to come up with the tax rate. How can you tell us what our tax rate will be if the town doesn't know from year to year. I case you're out of touch with reality, my it cost LI more each year to run their household which is called inflation. Do you expect the FD to freeze or lower their budget and our FD crumble then you would complain of lack of service. It seems like you will never be happy.

I called Connie's office to ask about what $$$ she or any government agency could help GHFD and the answer I got was not what you posted or have been telling people. Her office said the senator and state could provide funds to GHFD like they do schools. I spoke to PAt Eddington's office and she has introduced a bill to help districts like GHFD and YES there's STATE funds to help out.

I was also told they told this to the oposition running around with the petition. It was also told to me they are trying to block a cell tower that the FD will receive funds from like most other FD's do and many of them have more than one cell tower. Why would you block funds that could come to GH? Don't even talk about the cell tower causes cancer I saw the article posted by the American Cancer Society that said there's no proof of a cell tower causes cancer.

The bottom line is the oposition has been miss leading the GH residents with all there so called facts whioch I'm finding out everyday to be a LIE.

My neighbors do not want you on our block and don't come talk to my wife behind my back.

[high fire tax]

how do you know the FD needs to cut 1mil to have equal fire tax? Where do you come up with these figures? I spoke to the town assessor's office in length and they told me each year they get the budget and based on assessed evaluation which changes every year they have an equalization formula to come up with the tax rate. How can you tell us what our tax rate will be if the town doesn't know from year to year. I case you're out of touch with reality, my it cost LI more each year to run their household which is called inflation. Do you expect the FD to freeze or lower their budget and our FD crumble then you would complain of lack of service. It seems like you will never be happy.

I called Connie's office to ask about what $$$ she or any government agency could help GHFD and the answer I got was not what you posted or have been telling people. Her office said the senator and state could provide funds to GHFD like they do schools. I spoke to PAt Eddington's office and she has introduced a bill to help districts like GHFD and YES there's STATE funds to help out.

I was also told they told this to the oposition running around with the petition. It was also told to me they are trying to block a cell tower that the FD will receive funds from like most other FD's do and many of them have more than one cell tower. Why would you block funds that could come to GH? Don't even talk about the cell tower causes cancer I saw the article posted by the American Cancer Society that said there's no proof of a cell tower causes cancer.

The bottom line is the oposition has been miss leading the GH residents with all there so called facts whioch I'm finding out everyday to be a LIE.

My neighbors do not want you on our block and don't come talk to my wife behind my back.

At the VISION Conne named all the politicians she asked to help and then Connie stated that no money was forthcoming. I'm sure you were at the Vision. Weren't you listening?

There is a big difference between the words"could" and "can". They could maybe if they had money--but they don't and they can't help the GHFD more than the other FD's. If the other FD's get money it is because they are more competative and receive grants.

What is Pat Eddington's new legislation? Please explain. Last I heard the State was billions of dollars in debt.

Yes, what the tax assessor told you is accurate, however in the case of the GHFD,because it is so small we have discussed with the assessor the figures and the amount of potential future assessed value is minimal.

You really have to learn to analyze what you hear. You are unable to sort fact from spin.

[21YearProblem]

What is the bill, when did she file the bill, why did all the state people do nothing for 20 years, when will the vote occur, which part of $ 6 billion deficit will the funding come from?

[21YearProblem]

*/Can you please advise what is the bill, when was the bill filed, why did all the state people do nothing for 20 years, when will the vote occur, which part of $ 6 billion deficit will the funding come from? Thank you./*



I have no idea what this is about. There is no bill and the the only money is as you know the grants such as the Assemblywoman has provided GHFD in the past.

Donna Lent

[21YearProblem]

As you know very well Assemblywoman Eddington got the District 100,000.
(which was applied to the purchase of the new ambulance).

As you also know because we have discussed this many times, the Federal money is competitive, that is, grants which each District must apply for.

[Unregistered474]

Rosalie & her group that walk around are also telling the residents of the district that the letter from Midle Island Fire District is a lie!

Why are residents buying into the "your taxes will be $300.00 per year" once the district is dissolved? You have to know that it is impossible for that to happen when other district will have to bid on providing those services.

Lastly, I JUST WISH you would remove those signs that say keep the volunteers, dissolve the district! When are you going to understand one does not exist without the other!

[21YearProblem]

GORDON HEIGHTS--A single patrol car dispatched by the Suffolk County Police Department at the request of the fire district Tuesday was standing by outside the Gordon Heights firehouse in anticipation of what was expected to be a contentious public hearing on fire taxes. But fire officials found mostly empty seats inside the firehouse's truck bay area, which was fashioned into a public hearing room; and very little commentary despite residents' outspoken criticism and renewed vows to attempt to abolish the fire district. The top line of the 2009 budget, which contains the estimated projected real property taxes, came in at $1.4 million, reflecting a 1.7 percent, or $24,000, decrease from last year's budget. Under the spending plan, the projected fire tax rate would be $1 less than last year, according to district officials.

[21YearProblem]

Donald Price, an opponent of the fire district, said he recently visited the fire house with his grandchildren during fire prevention week and used his time on the microphone to take a jab at the district. He pointed out how attractive it would be to other fire districts for a consolidation effort, considering the highly trained fire personnel, new vehicles and little debt service. He complimented the department's Chief Erton Rudder, but then took a shot at the district by saying that "any district would like to get their hands on him."


"Five brand-new vehicles, without the added expense -- you are looking pretty good," he said of the district.
While Chief Rudder accepted the compliment to himself and the department graciously, he said following the meeting that a move to consolidate might not be as easy as it seems in theory. The move would also have to be approved by the other fire districts and their corresponding fire departments, he said.

"So now if any of us go over to any other department ... I'd become a firefighter," he said.

[21YearProblem]

Ms. Hanson said she recognized the board is making an effort to reduce its spending plan, but pointed out that the state mandates might be too much of a burden for the tiny district, considering it has such a small commercial tax base; even more reason for a consolidation effort to be considered.
"It will come to the point that even the state mandates will cripple us," Ms. Hanson said emphasizing that, for the sake of the taxpayers, the dissolution effort must go through, without fail.

"If we say 'if,' we are doomed. We are doomed."

[21YearProblem]

Our notarized signatures speak for themselves," Ms. Hanson said of the petition drive.

[Unregisteredwaahhhh]

Give up already nobody cares if they did they would show up and voice an opinion. You got suckered by the builder and the realtor RH sorry.

:):):):)