Newsday Hates Lawyers!!!

[lbltjag]

It is apparent from their attack on these individuals that have been profiled these past few weeks that Newsday has an agenda to rid the LI school districts of their lawyers.

Where is all the indignation?

It's obvious that Newsday would like to see the school districts have to use lesser lawyers so that the teachers Unions will be able to exact further gains. This is very much parallel to Newsday's campaign against the volunteer fire service. It's all about them currying favor with the Unions.

Imagine the audacity of these individuals taking advantage of taxpayer funded benefits without actually providing the service they're supposed to be providing!

Cancel your subscription to Newsday!

[punchtheclock]

It is apparent from their attack on these individuals that have been profiled these past few weeks that Newsday has an agenda to rid the LI school districts of their lawyers.

Where is all the indignation?

It's obvious that Newsday would like to see the school districts have to use lesser lawyers so that the teachers Unions will be able to exact further gains. This is very much parallel to Newsday's campaign against the volunteer fire service. It's all about them currying favor with the Unions.

Imagine the audacity of these individuals taking advantage of taxpayer funded benefits without actually providing the service they're supposed to be providing!

Cancel your subscription to Newsday!

What an a$$hole

[UnregisteredAzz]

Yea, Shut the Fuck Up...These free loaden peices of shit aren't entitled to a State pension. Its a scam.

Bill the district and then claim your also an employee?

What fuckin planet on you on???

[schoolisforme]

It is apparent from their attack on these individuals that have been profiled these past few weeks that Newsday has an agenda to rid the LI school districts of their lawyers.

Where is all the indignation?

It's obvious that Newsday would like to see the school districts have to use lesser lawyers so that the teachers Unions will be able to exact further gains. This is very much parallel to Newsday's campaign against the volunteer fire service. It's all about them currying favor with the Unions.


Imagine the audacity of these individuals taking advantage of taxpayer funded benefits without actually providing the service they're supposed to be providing!

Cancel your subscription to Newsday!
"Lesser Lawyers"?

[talkinboutjagoff]

Yea, Shut the Fuck Up...These free loaden peices of shit aren't entitled to a State pension. Its a scam.

Bill the district and then claim your also an employee?

What fuckin planet on you on???

Not the lawyers you dweeb, got it wrong. Now how would you like an Island full of civil servants like him and them. "All very professional mind you, all above board". Juat try to fie them for substandard work.

[jellyd]

I think you all missed the sarcasm in this post. I found it quite funny.

[Unregistered2323232323]

Doesn't Everyone??

[lbltjag]

I'm just struck by the inconsistency.

When Newsday ran the Fire Alarm series there were howls of outrage from those within the fire service. Where is the outrage now?

When Newsday criticized the fire service, the entire story was dismissed as biased. When they do a story criticizing the pension abuses conducted by all these other public agencies you guys applaud them.

I guess when they're not goring your bull, then Newsday is legitimate. When the Fire Alarm series was published it was explained away by those in the volunteer fire service as an undeserved attack.

It was said that Newsday hates the volunteers, though no one could offer any reason why.

It was said that Newsday was "in bed" with the fire Unions. Yeah, right!

It was even said (with a straight face, at that) that one of the reporters husbands had been thrown out of the volunteers and that the whole story was retribution for it. Oh-Kay.

Now that Newsday has come out with a series attacking units of government other than the fire service, the blatant corruption and abuse of taxpayer funded benefits uncovered is hailed as a great journalism. You guys are unbelievable.

The common denominator in both of these stories is that Newsday saw the taxpayer being hosed, and exposed it.

The Fire Alarm series told it like it is. No bias. No hidden agenda. Just a simple recitation of the facts with regard to the state of the fire service. That those of you within the fire service didn't like those facts does nothing to diminish the truthfulness of them.

You think all these big shot lawyers that have been ensnared in this scandal are happy about it? Hell no. The best that any of them can do to explain themselves is to say "everyone was doing it" or that " this has been going on for years". Those excuses didn't work with your mother, and they're not going to work here.

Similarly, all attempts by the LI volunteer fire service to explain away your unflattering portrayal in the Fire Alarm series are unavailing.

Yet another aspect of this current Newsday series that has potential implications for the fire service is that, at its core, the story is about persons obtaining pensions for which they did not qualify. Hmmm.

Lets take a look at LOSAP, shall we. How many FD members are racking up eligibility despite failing to "show up" for the work they're supposed to be doing to earn this benefit?

By show up, I mean actually responding to calls. Not just going to the firehouse and signing the book, but actually getting on a rig or a bus and responding to the call. How many people are being marked down as attending a given call by other members of their company? How many are making eligibility on drills, parades and fund drive alone? And how many just get put in for credit because the person who does the data entry wants to paint a rosier picture of a departments response capability then what actually exists?

Are any of these abuses less egregious than what these lawyers are accused of? I don't think so. It's time to scrap LOSAP. It is just another in a long line of ill advised attempts to prop up a failing volunteer system. I think those within the volunteer community that are applauding this crackdown on pension abuse should get their own house in order. Do it before the indictments come raining down.

[volunteerandcareerguy]

Jay, I was just curious as to why you keep pushing the agenda for a paid/combination fire service. I am not agreeing nor disagreeing with your views but simply want to know what your deal is. Do you live in a volunteer only area? Do you feel that you need to toot your own department's horn? Is there some hidden agenda for you? Haven't you realized until the right person is affected negatively (such as a politician), the volunteer service is here to stay? You're just stirring things up and complaining. How about the huge political force the volunteers have? Politicians want VOTES and going tens of thousands strong, the volunteer service is quite a force.
The more you rant and rave it seems like the less gets done. You nor the people that moan on this board will ever change the system until a member of the higher-ups decides it is time to do so. Like I said, this isn't going to change until the right person or person's family is affected by the volunteer service. The MOST I think you will see is individual departments hiring per-diem guys but then that also opens a whole other door.
There exists (in Suffolk county anyway) a civil service title of "firefighter" but it has always been inactive; meaning it has never been used or even a test made for it. I feel like "activating" this list would be more than a daunting task as rules and regulations would have to be made up as i'm pretty sure none exist due to the volunteer service. Lots of questions must be answered...How will they operate within the department? What rules or regulations will they follow? Who is in charge? Will they get parity with the police? What kind of training will they get and where will they get it (I would hope not the basic training you get at the academies) ? What department has the time or money to integrate this new paid service into their volunteer service?
I agree that once the job of fire/ems isn't being done then its up to the board or governing body to see that the job GETS done however possible. BUT that doesn't mean people sitting here typing and complaining can't make a difference...most of whom are volunteers. Let's face it, the volunteer service is HERE to STAY. Why not help with your departments training program if it's lacking? Go back to your house and rally the troops! Teach the junior guys some things! Increase morale! Make it fun to be a member! Jay, these are much more realistic things to do instead of expecting an overnight revolution and then wondering why it hasn't. Work with what you have to make it the best you can. Just a thought...

[lbltjag]

Jay, I was just curious as to why you keep pushing the agenda for a paid/combination fire service. I am not agreeing nor disagreeing with your views but simply want to know what your deal is. Do you live in a volunteer only area? Do you feel that you need to toot your own department's horn? Is there some hidden agenda for you? Haven't you realized until the right person is affected negatively (such as a politician), the volunteer service is here to stay? You're just stirring things up and complaining. How about the huge political force the volunteers have? Politicians want VOTES and going tens of thousands strong, the volunteer service is quite a force.
The more you rant and rave it seems like the less gets done. You nor the people that moan on this board will ever change the system until a member of the higher-ups decides it is time to do so. Like I said, this isn't going to change until the right person or person's family is affected by the volunteer service. The MOST I think you will see is individual departments hiring per-diem guys but then that also opens a whole other door.
There exists (in Suffolk county anyway) a civil service title of "firefighter" but it has always been inactive; meaning it has never been used or even a test made for it. I feel like "activating" this list would be more than a daunting task as rules and regulations would have to be made up as i'm pretty sure none exist due to the volunteer service. Lots of questions must be answered...How will they operate within the department? What rules or regulations will they follow? Who is in charge? Will they get parity with the police? What kind of training will they get and where will they get it (I would hope not the basic training you get at the academies) ? What department has the time or money to integrate this new paid service into their volunteer service?
I agree that once the job of fire/ems isn't being done then its up to the board or governing body to see that the job GETS done however possible. BUT that doesn't mean people sitting here typing and complaining can't make a difference...most of whom are volunteers. Let's face it, the volunteer service is HERE to STAY. Why not help with your departments training program if it's lacking? Go back to your house and rally the troops! Teach the junior guys some things! Increase morale! Make it fun to be a member! Jay, these are much more realistic things to do instead of expecting an overnight revolution and then wondering why it hasn't. Work with what you have to make it the best you can. Just a thought...

You are proof that some reasonable people view these boards. How rare to have somebody actually come back with a well thought out, non-insulting post. I commend you for that.

As for my motives in pushing for combo departments, it's simple: The job is just not getting done under the current system. I feel that's wrong. I feel that people are living under a false sense of security. Unfortunately, it's not until people need the help of their FD's, that they find out that their expectations of help were unrealistic. I think the public should be made aware of the sad state of the fire service before they need to call upon it.

It really is that simple.

Many here have tried to attach to me other motives for this crusade, but it just ain't there.

I live and work in Long Beach, one of only two communities in all of LI that are served by combination departments. I am a Lieutenant on the career side of the LBFD. My circumstances have imbued me with an objectivity that most members of the LI fire service are not capable of. At least not publicly.

Am I stirring things up and complaining? I guess you could see it that way, but I like to think of it as calling attention to a problem. Why should we wait for a tragedy (remember Avianca) to draw attention to the shortcomings of the volunteer fire service? Your assertion that nothing will change is the reason why nothing will change.

I don't accept the status quo. I think "the right person" is negatively affected by the LI fire service everyday. The "right person" is every taxpayer that is shelling out their hard earned money for a FD that delivers little in return.

Anyone affiliated with the LI fire service knows in their heart that the volunteer system is no longer capable of meeting the needs of those that call upon us for help. Thirty years ago, maybe. But not today, and not for some time now.

Unfortunately, I think you're right, the volunteer fire service is here to stay. They have all the politicians convinced that they're a force to be reckoned with. Why do you think the volunteer FD's invite all of the political dignitaries to their installation dinners? It's all about the illusion of being a political force. Politicians love to play to a room. The volunteers can fill up a room. But, call them to put out a fire, and you're lucky you can get enough manpower to properly operate the first line in a timely manner. This is what the politicians will never see.

Most of your other points are good ones. You try to maintain a constructive tone to the discussion. I too would like to take that approach, but see so little in the current system worth keeping. It's irreparably broken as far as I'm concerned. The culture within the LI fire service is incompatible with change. It is a system of the members, by the members, and for the members. The publics needs are just not given much consideration.

It's time for the Counties to step in and wipe the slate clean. It's the only way. Our political leaders are finally starting the conversation on consolidation of government services. The fire service is the most glaring area where consolidation needs to be applied. I think the tide may be turning. I think the internet may be just the device to give the vocal few a bigger voice than they would otherwise enjoy. At least I hope so.

[volunteerandcareerguy]

Name calling never makes a person seem intelligent or helps to get their point across. I hate when the liberals do it instead of coming back with a rational thought and I refuse to do the same. And your use of sarcasm in the first post was clever...i'll give you that.

I'll agree that the current state of SOME volunteer departments is sad and mine might even be heading that way. However, there are also departments that are always on top of their game and roll 4-5 rigs to EVERY alarm during the day, night, weekend, holidays...you name it. It really depends on the area or the motivation and community-mindedness of the volunteers. In some communities like far eastern LI or other small towns/hamlets, the volunteer service is the ONLY WAY to go based on the tax base and number of alarms they respond to. The question REALLY is, why do some volunteer departments succeed and others fail? What is the deciding factor?

Brother, I feel like your views might be distorted because of your status as an employee in a combo department. It's like you're from the inside looking out into the unknown. Have you ever been a volunteer outside of the secluded area of LB? I'll agree some departments are lacking but other departments are great and rival a career department. (Departments exist all over that use only 1-2 guys on each truck or engine...and these are full-time career departments.) How do you differentiate between the two and paint all departments with the same brush?

I also am familiar with the LBFD and their basic operations...but can you tell me what is it like working in a combo department? I mean, let's face it the volunteers ARE YOUR backup if I'm correct. Quick water is great and saves more lives but I'm pretty sure you guys aren't superheroes. They'll be working right with you; stretching another line, forcing entry, doing the primary, opening up the roof, laddering the building for safety, maintaining control of the fire door, etc etc. Are you comfortable with their response? I'm not a member there so I couldn't tell you how the career or volunteers operate or if they get there in a timely manner, but I'm pretty sure they do the job otherwise the volunteer service wouldn't exist in LB. Either that or (god forbid) you guys would be getting burned or killed every time.

A first due pumper is great but how long will you be alone on scene? Who's doing the truck work or getting a backup/second line into place? Especially with all the hi-rises and the MD's, you're gonna need more than a first due engine company with a handful of guys, no? I just feel like this is where the volunteers come in handy and the combo department lacks. Members need to be highly motivated and WANT to be at the firehouse to go on calls...and lots of departments have that. It's not all scumbaggery and laziness. No offense brother, but i'll take the department of eager and well-trained members over a combo department with a single career engine ANY day. Dollar for dollar, the communities with a well-oiled volunteer department really DO get the most for their money.

And in my opinion, we can learn from the ambulance companies. The volunteer in-house crew is the only way to go based on the time it takes to get into your car, drive to the firehouse in traffic, wait for other guys, THEN get on the rig and go. This is the ONLY way to get good response times. Through no fault of our own, we simply CANT get to the firehouse in a timely manner by driving there, especially when you don't live close to the firehouse.

Like I said, any politician would be committing career suicide if they wiped the slate clean of volunteer departments. Who would be the first person to make that move anyway? It's a bold move that would require a big plan because they'd need to have their idea ready to go...and it would be YEARS in the making before anything could be done. Can't just wake up one morning and fire the volunteers. Again, dollar for dollar, the communities with a well-oiled volunteer department really DO get the most for their money. Stay safe.

[lbltjag]

You make some good points, but I disagree with most of them just the same.

The assumptions you make about the LBFD are way off the mark. Unfortunately, I really can't get into much detail about my department here in a public forum.

If you register to this site, you can use the PM feature. I urge you to do that. I'd be happy to discuss my opinions on my department with you privately.

Are my views distorted? Perhaps. And perhaps yours are. Your tag implies that you are a Two-Hatter. You obviously know that I frown on the practice. Quite frankly, I am mystified as to how anyone can reconcile the two. I would have great difficulty going to my employer and trying to negotiate raises for something I'm willing to do for free. They just conflict with one another.

That being said, I do appreciate your contributions to the discussion as well as your civility. Keep up the good work.

[Unregisteredconflict?]

I don't see any conflict with two-hatting. I can easily ask my employer for a raise on the paid side because I am an employee earning a living. On the volunteer side, yes, I do it for free, but this has nothing to do with my employment at the other department. It's just the same as me being a union contractor and helping out my neighbor with a home improvement project. Same as me being a landscaper and doing some gardening for my cousin. Same as me being a mechanic and changing my neighbor's oil or taking a look at his brakes as a favor. I'm a teacher and tutor my friend's kid for free. I'm a professional chef and man the grill at my friend's party. Starting to see the connections here?

[firerescue890]

It boils down to dealing straight.

[gettintightindashorts?]

You make some good points, but I disagree with most of them just the same.

The assumptions you make about the LBFD are way off the mark. Unfortunately, I really can't get into much detail about my department here in a public forum.

If you register to this site, you can use the PM feature. I urge you to do that. I'd be happy to discuss my opinions on my department with you privately.

Are my views distorted? Perhaps. And perhaps yours are. Your tag implies that you are a Two-Hatter. You obviously know that I frown on the practice. Quite frankly, I am mystified as to how anyone can reconcile the two. I would have great difficulty going to my employer and trying to negotiate raises for something I'm willing to do for free. They just conflict with one another.

That being said, I do appreciate your contributions to the discussion as well as your civility. Keep up the good work.

Now you can't get into much detail here about your department? And you urge people to PM you, not on a public board or in Snoozeday like you do?
You are the original two hatter, you can't take a real debate, just sit there with the dictionary, write babbel all day long and know you bang nails while UNION CARPENTERS THAT WENT THROUGH TRAINING AND CAME UP THROUGH THE RANKS CAN'T GET THE JOBS YOU DID. And you bitch about safety? Is your non union crew certified and trained and do you have all the needed equipment on off days?

[lbltjag]

Now you can't get into much detail here about your department? And you urge people to PM you, not on a public board or in Snoozeday like you do?
You are the original two hatter, you can't take a real debate, just sit there with the dictionary, write babbel all day long and know you bang nails while UNION CARPENTERS THAT WENT THROUGH TRAINING AND CAME UP THROUGH THE RANKS CAN'T GET THE JOBS YOU DID. And you bitch about safety? Is your non union crew certified and trained and do you have all the needed equipment on off days?

I offer you the following section of our City Charter:

Sec. 11-54. Grounds for disciplinary action against members.
Any member of the fire department shall be subject to reprimand, suspension, dismissal or extra duty for any of the following causes:
(a) Intoxication while on duty or in uniform;
(b) Disobedience of orders of superior officer, or of rules and regulations set forth in the approved manual;
(c) Immorality, indecency or lewdness or other conduct unbecoming a fireman;
(d) Incompetence or incapacity to perform his duty;
(e) Conduct subversive of good order, discipline or the reputation of the fire department;
(f) Absence from duty without leave.
(Code 1957, § 2-411.7)

I refer you specifically to Sec. 11-54 (e). I am employed by my department. Violations, or perceived violations of the above provision could have implications for my employment status. Bait me all you want, I ain't going there.

The rest of your post is too stupid to even acknowledge, so I won't.

[gettintightindashorts]

I offer you the following section of our City Charter:

Sec. 11-54. Grounds for disciplinary action against members.
Any member of the fire department shall be subject to reprimand, suspension, dismissal or extra duty for any of the following causes:
(a) Intoxication while on duty or in uniform;
(b) Disobedience of orders of superior officer, or of rules and regulations set forth in the approved manual;
(c) Immorality, indecency or lewdness or other conduct unbecoming a fireman;
(d) Incompetence or incapacity to perform his duty;
(e) Conduct subversive of good order, discipline or the reputation of the fire department;
(f) Absence from duty without leave.
(Code 1957, § 2-411.7)

I refer you specifically to Sec. 11-54 (e). I am employed by my department. Violations, or perceived violations of the above provision could have implications for my employment status. Bait me all you want, I ain't going there.

The rest of your post is too stupid to even acknowledge, so I won't.

I shall refer you my good sir to:
11-54 (g) JizzBag Syndrome. No FF or Officer shall engae in JizzBag or lbltjag activities. This includes, but is not limited to being a ego-centric pompus ass, a know it all, a union butt kisser, a inadequately hung, carpenter union busting contractor.

[inreality]

I shall refer you my good sir to:
11-54 (g) JizzBag Syndrome. No FF or Officer shall engae in JizzBag or lbltjag activities. This includes, but is not limited to being a ego-centric pompus ass, a know it all, a union butt kisser, a inadequately hung, carpenter union busting contractor.

On 11-54 (e), his liberal use of his "right of freedom of speech" and his tag lines and constant reference to his employer could certainly fit the spirit and intent of the regulation. But I guess they screwed it up somehow the first time and have high hopes he will go away...

[volfdoverandgonewith]

Moore and Jag together?
............

Elizabeth Moore
Newsday, Melville, N.Y.


--

May 2--ALBANY -- For the first time, a state commission has recommended taking a hard look at New York's volunteer-led system of fire protection and requiring counties to at least consider assuming more control of their local fire services.

It's such a touchy subject that five of the 15 members of the Commission on Local Government Efficiency -- including Long Island's two members -- voted against even studying the idea.

But commissioners said they'd heard too many "horror stories" on Long Island and statewide about multiplying Taj Mahal fire stations stuffed with brand new equipment, at a time when volunteer numbers are rapidly dropping.

"Our taxes are far too high, and we can't continue to embrace the status quo and expect things to get any better," said Assemb. Sam Hoyt (D-Buffalo), chairman of the local governments committee and a member of the commission, which presented its recommendations to Gov. David A. Paterson on Wednesday. "I guess they [volunteers] are a powerful constituency, but at some point we have got to learn to say no."

The commission, which drew in part on findings from Newsday's 2005 Fire Alarm series, emphasized that voters would have to approve, through referendum, any move to give their county broader power to coordinate fire services and review equipment and coverage decisions.

Its report proposed a range of other changes to the fire system:

Requiring all E-911 calls and police, fire and emergency medical dispatch to be handled by counties;

Empowering towns to create their own fire departments;

Holding all fire district elections on Election Day or on the same day in spring, run by the county board of elections, and notifying voters by mail of their fire polling place;

Making it easier to dissolve fire districts -- a measure inspired by the predicament of angry homeowners in the high-tax Gordon Heights Fire District;

Requiring a detailed study of the state's fragmented fire system, and more reporting on fire spending and budgets;

Devising new incentives tailored to younger volunteers.

Fire officials were unenthusiastic about most of the proposals. Bill Young, counsel for the state fire districts association, said putting towns or counties in charge of fire protection would be "extremely difficult" both logistically and because volunteers sign up only to serve their hometowns. Kirby Hannan, spokesman for the state firemen's association representing the volunteers, agreed. He argued for a more tailored solution to Gordon Heights' budget problems but favored the idea of county dispatch and new incentives.

Young also argued that reforms passed by the state in the wake of Newsday's 2005 series should be given more time to work.

Nassau Comptroller Howard Weitzman, who along with Sen. Craig Johnson (D-Port Washington) opposed studying county management of fire services, said county control would disrupt the sense of community that makes the volunteer system work.

But Weitzman said he will ask the Long Island Regional Planning Board to study countywide dispatching. "There's a lot of solid research that went into those recommendations, and whether you agree with them or disagree they are clearly worthy of discussion," he said.