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steve
10-04-2003, 11:05 AM
On immigration
By Richard D. Lamm
October 4, 2003

Should illegal aliens have driver's licenses, amnesty, welfare, and the right to move thr families to the U.S.? Illegal aliens are, as is often pointed out, "good, hard-working people who just want the American dream." But is that the end of the argument? The trouble with that level of analysis is that there are billions of "good, hard-working people" and thr dependents in the world who would love to come here, and obviously we can't take them all. We are also a nation of laws, with our own unemployed and underemployed, and our nation needs to come to some enforceable consensus on what our policy should be on people entering the country illegally.

Polls show that more than 70 percent of Americans object to illegal immigration, and we run a serious risk of a backlash against all immigrants if we don't reach some consensus on this issue. Polls also show that there is no issue in America where there is a bigger gap between public opinion and opinions of the media and other "elites."

Reasoned dialogue is rare and issues of immense importance to America's future are not bng discussed or even debated.

Public policy requires us to be wise enough to appreciate cumulative effects. We already have approximately 10 percent of all Mexico living in the U.S. ther legally or illegally. We owe it to the future to have a candid debate on the demographic impact of a mass migration of this magnitude. Consider:

1. We are a nation built on law. It almost sounds old-fashioned in contemporary America to ask that people obey the law. But when we start deciding which laws to obey and which to ignore, we start down a dangerous path. There are millions of potential immigrants patiently waiting in thr home countries to immigrate here, playing by our rules. Illegal immigrants "jump the line."

2. As every house needs a door, every country needs a border. By turning a blind eye toward illegal immigration, we are encouraging countless numbers of these people to attempt to sneak into America. I spent a night with the Border Patrol in California, and was amazed to find people from India, Bangladesh, Iran, Egypt, Africa and China among the people detained.

3. Illegal immigration hurts America's poor. Illegal immigrants compete for the jobs our own poor need to start to move up the economic ladder. A study by The Center for Immigration Studies finds: "Mexican immigration is overwhelmingly unskilled, and it is hard to find an economic argument for unskilled immigration, because it tends to reduce wages for (U.S.) workers." The study goes on: "Because the American economy offers very limited opportunities for workers with little education, continued unskilled immigration can't help but to significantly increase the size of the poor and uninsured populations, as well as the number of people on welfare."

4. We are told that illegal immigration is "cheap labor," but it is not "cheap labor," it is subsidized labor. The National Academy of Sciences has found that there is a significant fiscal drain on U.S. taxpayers for each adult immigrant without a high school education. Illegal immigration is something that benefits a few employers, but the rest of us subsidize that labor through the school system, the health-care system, the courts and in other ways that this form of labor imposes. With school spending of more than $7,000 per student per year, even a small family costs far more than a low-wage family pays in taxes.

5. America is increasingly becoming, day by day, a bilingual country, yet there is not a bilingual country in the world that lives in peace with itself. No nation should blindly allow itself to become a bilingual-bicultural country. If it does, it invites generations of conflict, tension and antagonism. America has historically demanded that its immigrants be self-supporting and English-speaking to join our polity. We vary from that rule that made us "one nation, indivisible" at great risk to America's future. Today, when over 40 percent of today's massive wave of immigrants is from Spanish-speaking nations, people can move to America and keep thr language, thr culture and thr old loyalties. If the melting pot doesn't melt, immigrants become "forgners" living in America rather than assimilated Americans.

6. Our social fabric risks becoming undone. It is important to America's future that we look at how Mexican immigrants are doing. Too many of our Hispanic immigrants live in ethnic ghettos. Too many are unskilled laborers, too many are uneducated, too many live in poverty, too many are exploited, too many haven't finished ninth grade, too many drop out of school. The Center for Immigration Studies issued a report last year, which found: "Almost two-thirds of adult Mexican immigrants have not completed high school, compared to fewer than one in 10 natives not completing high school. Mexican immigrants now account for 22 percent of all high school dropouts in the labor force."

But what is most disturbing is that second and third generations don't do much better. Again, the study from The Center for Immigration Studies: "The lower educational attainment of Mexican immigrants appears to persist across the generations." A recent report from the center shows that two-thirds of Mexican immigrant workers lack even a high school education; as a consequence, two-thirds of Mexican immigrant families live in or near poverty. The question has to be asked: By tolerating illegal immigration are we laying the foundations for a new Hispanic underclass? A Hispanic Quebec?

Former Reform Party presidential candidate and former Colorado Gov. Richard D. Lamm is co-director of the Center for Public Policy and Contemporary Issues at the University of Denver.

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SuzieQ
10-10-2003, 10:07 AM
People do not realize, or perhaps they do, that by using cheap labor to save money, it isn't cheap at all. We have illegal aliens picking our crops so the farmer is getting cheap labor. We may save a few cents on those crops but we are paying a high cost in the long run for those illegals to be here. We are shelling out money for them to use all of our social programs and they are not contributing to the economy of the US but to other countries. We are getting taken for a ride and most folks do not even realize it. All they know is that they saved 2 cents on those tomatoes!!! Take a look at all the surcharages on your household bills. You will be amazed.
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Billybob
10-10-2003, 10:24 AM
SusieQ, I pretty much agree with what you're saying, but...

I really think the conservative (for lack of a better label) mindset is to punish the immigrants, rather than the corporations who employ them. As long as there's a market for illegal immigrant labor, people WILL come here illegally. I don't think most people realize how much this country's economy hinges on cheap, immigrant labor. The solution isn't to create a police state for immigrants, treating them like criminals and rounding them up in large numbers illegally (which happens all the time). That doesn't even attempt to deal with the problem.

The problem is NOT that these people are breaking the law (which is an afterthought, and silly since we MAKE the laws), the problem is that this country on one hand encourages thr immigration in order to exploit thr cheap labor, and on the other hand keeps them in a perpetual state of insecurity and fear by threatening to deport them and deny them services. These two things create the perfect slave labor force, don't you think? A people exploited and treated less than human, who are afraid to speak up because of a fear for themselves and thr family. That's just what this country is doing, and the solution is NOT to crack down more on the PEOPLE, but on the businesses and economic policies that encourage thr presence, don't you think?
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Rastaman
10-10-2003, 02:42 PM
Both parties have thr hands in the immigration cookie jar..and its all about getting votes! The democrats recruit the Mexicans and the republicans recruit the Cubans and Hispanics.

Ya'll support one of the 2 parties..so you can blame yourselves as well. I have voted for both parties..because my philosophy is "whos the candidate' that will do the best for me. And I will never register with any of the 2 parties.

Because of this 'heard mentality' ..this clique syndrome..this need to assocuiate with a winner..this mindless partisanship...these parties will continue doing what they are doing today despite your complaints.

SuzieQ
10-11-2003, 01:33 AM
It is the main fault of our government for allowing these illegal aliens to come across the border. This whole issue is very complex as it has to do with cheap labor, votes, drugs and the economies of the South American countries and also to do with agricultural conditions in Mexico. (specifically the corn crop) but that is a whole other story. Still, we do not have to be placed in a position where our lives are bng destoyed by this illegal immigration. The elites live above this and do not have to deal with it on a day to day basis, we do. So we have to force our elected officials to deal with the illegal immigration problem as it is so out of control. To do this, they must deport the illegals here and close our borders to further illegal immigration as our safety is at stake. So like it or not, it must be done. We cannot ignore the threat this poses to our future. We live in a different world and we just have to do what is necessary whether the elites like it or not.
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Sassy
10-11-2003, 04:23 PM
You ought to register in one of the parties, so you can vote for the best person in the primaries. Only a relatively small fraction of folks vote in the primaries, so that's where the power is.
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SuzieQ
10-14-2003, 02:36 AM
You are right. Folks should be registered in a party of thr choice because then and only then can they choose the person who they think is the best man, or woman, for an elected position. Most folks do not vote along party lines anyway if they have any sense. You should pick the person, no matter what party, that you feel will best represent your issues. Signing on to a party allows the party to predict polls, but that is not always the case any longer as folks are now computerized and are able to get more information on candidates. The politicians cannot get away with the old "kissing babies and patting the hands of the old folks" to get votes. The most important thing is to get your family out there to vote. It is also important to serve on jury duty so we get a good mix of jurors when important cases pop up so they can be given thoughtful debate on cases.
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ACELAW
10-17-2003, 07:21 PM
Billybob you got to be kidding, this nation never hinged on cheap labor, you pay for it one way or another. They are responsible for 15 to 20 billion of Calif. budget problem.35.7% of Hispanic's are on welfare now, most of them are the ones we amnesty's in 1986, after ten years they have a 7th grade education, make $9000 per year and send $500 home every month, get a clue, we are paying for that and we will continue to until we stand up to our elected as happened in Calif.


The current wave of mass immigration is not benefiting Americans overall. "All of the available estimates suggest the annual net gain is astoundingly small," writes Professor Borjas, "... less than 0.1 percent of the Gross Domestic Product." Roughly: less than $10 billion in a $7 trillion economy.

Note carefully what Professor Borjas is saying here. Sure, those immigrants who work do raise overall GDP. But the bulk of that increase goes to the immigrants themselves, in the form of wages. The benefit to native-born Americans, after everything is taken into account, is infinitesimally small.

Current mass immigration is not benefiting Americans overall -- but it is transforming thr country. For nothing
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Justice777
01-02-2004, 05:07 PM
"The question has to be asked: By tolerating illegal immigration are we laying the foundations for a new Hispanic underclass? A Hispanic Quebec?"


Yes, that was an excellent article and underscores the many problems with the illegal population in the U.S. today, and all of it's ramifications. I am also wondering about what language we will all be speaking in 10 years from now. ???
In banks, Govt offices etc we have to press 1 for English and 2 for Spanish. What's up with THAT. In our schools they have to have special interpreters for the Spanish immigrants, and bilingual classes. (namely, Spanish/English of course). I think diversity is fine but how could the Govt just decide that they will only recognize the Spanish. I think that the other cultures living in our country should speak up and cry foul to the injustice and unfairness of catering to only Spanish immigrants. Why are special privileges bng extended to the Spanish??? How about the increasing numbers of Koreans in NY. Don't they count. ? How about the Polish, Slavic and Japanese residents,? Haitian or Hindu, Arab or Chinese???? And All the translators that are needed at our govt offices, judicial, schools and such, all cost big money. Guess where that money is coming from???? The pockets of the legal American Tax paying public. This is an unnecessary burden to the Taxpayers. Are we bilingual now??? and the Government forgot to tell us???? Call any State or Federal Government office and ask them ..."what is the deal here? And don't forget to press 1 for English, and 2 for Spanish. !! Why is our government catering to and spending our tax dollars on ONE group of people who refuse to speak "English."...(the so called national language of America.) This is costing us money folks. Time to trim the fat. Isn't giving special privileges to one group against America's laws and value system? If I was Korean or any other culture in America now, I would questioning heavily this phenomenon that is rampant in America now of giving special privileges to the Spanish..(.legals and illegals.)

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Sum
01-02-2004, 05:18 PM
You live in Calif... how do you really feel.. If you really live there!! 60% Mexican... They control your state!
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shortwave
01-02-2004, 05:29 PM
Yes Billy Bob, punish the boss man. Put Bill Gates in a jail cell with a 500 pund queen named Leroy. This would end to end the H1B program real soon. What do ya say Suzie girl?
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