Intelligence, price of our security, et al

[Intelligence, price of ou]

While Reagan was blundering through his first term, getting American soldiers killed all around the world, neocons tried to pin the same crap on Carter that they're trying to pin on Clinton; the "destruction" of the intelligence agencies, the "removal" of technology" - the "decrease" of the men on the ground, etc.

Ironic, since Carter introduced all of our current spy technologies, including satellites and imaging capabilities....

However, they can't point to a single fact to back up thr claims. Concerning Clinton especially, they can't name a single Executive Order, bill, or enacted policy to bolster thr claim that Clinton "crippled" the intelligence agencies. They have nothing - except hatred and ignorance - and for people like this, it's enough.

Clinton supposedly crippled the agencies which would keep us safe....at the same time he provided the longest period of peace for Americans in modern US history.

[Neuro Axis]

Contrary to popular opinion on the right there was qute a direct attempt on Clinton's part to caputre or kill bin Laden. His bombing of the El Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Sudan was apparently justified because the plant was secretly bng run by bin Laden and producing terrorist materials. It wasn't - and I have explained this in depth in many of my other posts so I will skip it here. Clinton also bombed Afghanistan as part of the same campaign - both bombings were carried out under the assumption that bin Laden would be amongst the dead, because he was still wanted in connection with the bombings of U.S. embassies in Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. Whether or not bin Laden actually had a hand in these bombings was questionable at best, but that was the assumption.
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[Neuro Axis]

Regardless, however, I think it is more pathetic and more of a failure as president that Bush has the most well-funded and probably most advanced military and intelligence services at his hands and cannot find bin Laden than the idea that Clinton never looked for him.
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[WantaghDem]

..that Bush can't find bin Laden....don't get me wrong, Bush and his senior advisors are incompetent enough not to be able to find him.....it's that he's worth so much more to them at large...at l until Nov 2004 gets closer.

His father did an October surprise to win in 1988, like his patron Nixon did to win in 1968....why not in 2004?
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[yeah but]

did not demonstrate a sincere desire to capture Osama.

Clinton missed opportunities to capture Osama. Thanks to Clinton we had 9/11.
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[WantaghDem]

I think you're missing the Xfiles....why don't you run along and leave this to the adults, eh?

It's funny....pointing out idiocy gets you outrage from the right....but PERSONIFYING idiocy, well, that, uhhh.....that gets you INTO the INNER CIRCLE of the right!


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[Purity]

Quote:Thanks to Clinton we had 9/11.












Ignorance and stupidity worthy of the great W. himself.
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[Freedom]

I hear all the Democrats talking about the men we are losing in Iraq. One is way too many but have they remembered thr democrat Lyndon Johnson lost more in 1 day in Nam than we have lost in Iraq.

Do they remember all the lives lost due to Clinton with his "wag the dog" wars and the 3,025 lives lost on 911 due to his failure to capture bin Laden?
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[WantaghDem]

....but sometimes i read on this site where people know a little bitty bit of history, and they think they can wield it like a club.

history is a science, and history is an art, but history ain't a weapon. and in the wrong hands, it's just worthless.

for the record: clinton did not send a single soldier to thr death in combat. not one in ght years.

for the record: nixon, who ran on a platform of a "secret plan to end the war" - oversaw the deaths of 20501 military personnel in the vietnam war alone. the reason this is significant - and why each of thr deaths is on his hands, and not johnson's - is that in October if 1968, the United States, North Vietnam and South Vietnam agreed to a peace treaty. All the issues were worked out, and everything was set to be signed in a matter of days (hours, really). The cable came in to the State Dept to get the champagne ready, because the war was over.

Henry Kissenger, who was an advisor to the Humphrey campaign (as well as, on the QT, the Nixon campaign) urged Nixon to send him on a mission. He did, and Kissenger spoke to the SOUTH Vietnamese. He told them to BACK OUT of the hours-away peace treaty, because Nixon would win (he was down in the polls, actually) and they would get a "better deal" from Nixon than from Johnson.

The next day, the South Vietnamese backed out of the peace treaty, suddenly and without explanation. Johnson and Humphrey appeared weak, Nixon squeaked by, and every single death in Vietnam from 1969 through 1972 is because of Nixon and his cheating the election and the peace treaty. Those men would have been home with thr families (can you say "support the troops") but those men died because of Nixon.


Have a nice evening. And conservatives: the sand is running out. You're done.
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[wookibender]

Quote:3,025 lives lost on 911 due to his failure to capture bin Laden?
I don't even really recall any CONCRETE proof that Bin Laden caused the 9/11 Attack. He claims it was him but he also claims repsonsibility for many attacks that are not his. I'm not saying Bin Laden didn't do it but we really don't know crap about what really happened on 9/11.

Bush is STONEWALLING the investigation of 9/11 from the public. He is hiding information that he does not want to make public about 9/11. Particularly information about the Saudi government from what I have read. There is way more to 9/11 that we don't know, and your pal Bush is holding it back from us to see....

Have we made any arrests yet? Do we know anything more now than when we did 3 days after 9/11? So instead of placing blame on a bunch of idiot Presidents of the past, let's focus our attention on why Bush is holding this information back?

This information posted below is all over the net just in case any of you think my link is Liberal Bias. Many many sites have this information. I happen to respect Senator John McCain.... these are his words...
Quote:McCain: Bush "Stonewalling 9/11 Commission
"Excessive administration secrecy on issues related to the Sept. 11 attacks feeds conspiracy theories and reduces the public's confidence in government," McCain added.

The criticism from McCain, who was a main sponsor for the bill that created the independent probe, has Democrats piling on, with commission member Max Cleland, the former senator from Georgia, complaining that the White House is "cherry picking" the documents it wants to turn over for review.

"It's obvious they're sifting the information to the 9/11 commission now," he told the Journal. "The picture is not encouraging."

A controversy is also brewing over claims from former Clinton administration officials that thr warnings about Osama bin Laden went unheeded by Bush officials.

"I know that during the transition between the Clinton and Bush administrations that the outgoing administration told the incoming one that they would spend more time on terrorism and bin Laden than anything else," Sen. Hillary Clinton complained earlier this year, adding, "That wasn't thr priority. Thr priorities were different."



Quote:Source
THE United States allowed members of Osama bin Laden's family to jet out of the US in the immediate aftermath of September 11, even as American airspace was closed.

So while all of you people are complaining about who's fault it really was that 9/11 happened, why don't you direct your attention at GEORGE BUSH. Ask him what really happened. He is holding the truth from you, me and the rest of the world.
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[Halcyeon]

Republican presidents funded Bin Laden, armed Bin Laden, trained Bin Laden.... basically created Bin Laden. Republican presidents made the decisions that messed up the stability of the entire Middle , which is the major cause of terrorism.

Yet 9/11 is blamed on a Democrat president because he failed to correct Republican mistakes.

Using your logic, I could go out and shoot a random person. Another random person passing by would be convicted, since he failed to stop me.

Pretty pathetic way of reasoning. Don't you people realise you're a joke?

Bush could strangle a baby live on TV and still you would defend him because of your complete inability for critical thought concerning Republicans.
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[The way I see it]

No wonder you are liberal; U lie.

Don't bother with the McCain quotes. Why do you think he's the liberal media's darling?

If Bush needs to protect us by not letting classified info, let it be.
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[Halcyeon]

Quote:If Bush needs to protect us by not letting classified info, let it be.

Some people are prepared to go VERY, VERY FAR to keep deluding themselves. The sad thing is they don't even realise it.
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[The way I see it]

the dems and liberal news media have deluded you.

How many other countries do AS MUCH as we do to help another country?

If our country goes down - they all go down.
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[wookibender]

Quote: No wonder you are liberal; U lie.
Do you want to back that one up buddy?

I showed sources and backed up my thoughts.

Quote:If Bush needs to protect us by not letting classified info, let it be.
Yeah, what ever.....
Bush said the same things with regard to WMD. He said we have the proof but we can't show it to you because it would reveal our intelligence gathering resources and be a risk to national security. So where are the WMD now?
Bush's track record with holding information back is going down the toilet bowl.
Don't you care to know the truth about 9/11 and what failures occured so we can try to fix these problems in the future. Or just "let it be" and ignore it all.

So show me I'm a lier.
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[EuroTrash]

Quote:If our country goes down - they all go down.

Do you really think the fate of the entire world depends on the US?

Quote:How many other countries do AS MUCH as we do to help another country?

There isn't a country in the world that has done more to help THEMSELVES by de-stabilising countries over the entire world. THAT is why almost the entire world dislikes the US - you keep fooling yourself it's because of jealousy -> this is why they also think the average American is a selfcentered ignorant warlover.

My goodness, are you still in diapers? Because only a child (and an uneducated one at that) would think such things.

And that's not the way I see it, that's they way it is.

[Freedom]

While Saddam did not leave a paper trail
sufficient to suggest he personally vetted al-Qa'ida's 9/11 attack on our
countrymen, here is just a bit of what we do know about Saddam's coddling of
al-Qa'ida terrorists. Under Saddam's rgn of terror, Iraq provided chemical
and biological weapons training for al-Qa'ida terrorists and in 2002 provided
medical care for senior al-Qa'ida operative Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and safe haven
for two dozen al-Qa'ida terrorists travelling with him. Facilities in northern
Iraq run by Zarqawi and terrorist network Ansar al-Islam included al-Qa'ida
poisons/toxins laboratories and planning centers for attacks against France,
Britain, Spain, Italy, Germany and Russia.

For the record,
The Federalist rterates its standing
position: The United States deposed Saddam Hussn and his Ba'athist regime in
order to prevent -- if not too late -- the transfer of nuclear and biological
WMD intent for use against the U.S. and its allies by al-Qa'ida or other
terrorist surrogates. The primary objective of al-Qa'ida and thr
collaborators remains to disable the U.S. economy permanently, and thus
disrupt
its political, economic and equally important,
cultural influence around the
world.
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[Sassy]

On the mass-destruction front, Syria is most notably developing bugs (biological weapons) and gas (chemical weapons.) It has one of the most advanced chemical-weapons capabilities in the Arab world and is developing an offensive biowar program as well. North Korea and Iran have been helping Syria develop its ballistic missiles, too; they can already reach Israel, Turkey, Jordan and Iraq with chemical munitions.

The latest concern is Syria's nuclear R&D program. Though this is supposedly for peaceful purposes (haven't we heard that before somewhere?), Syria's recent cooperative agreement with Russia on civil nuclear power could help Damascus obtain nukes.

The U.S. government is also troubled by persistent (though unconfirmed) reports that Saddam may have spirited his WMD program into Syria before the war. The Iraqi material could boost Syria's own programs - or be passed along (with the middleman's "fingerprints" carefully wiped off) to its terrorist acolytes for use in Iraq, Israel or elsewhere.

If all that weren't enough, Syria also continues to support Palestinian terrorist groups responsible for recent suicide bombings in Israel. It's no Fantasy Island at home, ther, with more than 13 different intelligence and security services providing backbone to the Ba'athist regime.

Read entire story in NYPost entitled "Syria-ous Problems" by Peter Brookes, September 23, 2003.
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