Rumsfeld's 9/11 speech at Arlington

[Rumsfeld's 9/11 speech at]

Quote:Great speech, capped by "we know that if we do not fight the terrorists over there in Iraq ... then we will have to face them here ... That's why we will prevail.”
Can you please cite some evidence that there were terrorists in Iraq before the war?

Quote:On NBC, Katie Couric then, OFF camera, asks "so does the Pentagon have an exit strategy?" I think to myself, "How ignorant and shameless".
Who's side is Katie on? Not ours.
So someone who questions the strategy of the Pentagon, which now in hindsight was completely inadequate and unprepared, is automatically against the action. The Pentagon made a complete shambles in the preperation for this war and now are seng the consequences. To me it would be totally absurd not to question the failings of the intelligence services, the Pentagon and the administration as if you dont learn from your mistakes you are cursed to recommit them.

[TERRORISM, Media bias]

No, Al Qaeda did not train in Iraq. This is false, and proves nothing but your willingness to ther be fooled by the Commander in Thief or to be his shill.

The rest of your post isn't worth replying to....it's worse than false. Go put on your tinfoil cap to block the ray beams and take a nap.

[Freedom]

Here's what the New York Times said about the camp six weeks after 9/11:D">

"New information does suggest that Mr. Hussn was actively training terrorists to attack American interests throughout the 1990's.

"One example is the testimony of Sabah Khodada, a captain in the Iraqi army who emigrated to Texas in May after working for ght years at what he described as a terrorist training camp at a bend in the Tigris River just south of Baghdad."

According to the Times, Khodada described the camp as "a highly secret installation" where "non-Iraqi Arabs from Persian Gulf countries, including Saudi Arabia" recved training in "assassinations, kidnapping, hijacking of airplanes, hijacking of buses, hijacking of trains, and all other kinds of operations related to terrorism."

In comments unmentioned by the Times but covered by PBS, Khodada said that when he saw the twin towers fall he thought to himself, "This was done by graduates of Salman Pak."

Here's how National Public Radio characterized Iraq's link to the 9/11 attacks in a report the same month:

"The case against Iraq is based on three things. First, Mohamed Atta, believed to be the key organizer of the September 11th attacks, met earlier this year with an Iraqi agent in Prague.

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[WantaghDem]

....whom do we believe? Liberal NY Times, Liberal NPR, or


DONALD RUMSFELD AND CONDOLEEZA RICE???



Hmmmmmm.......
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[Freedom]

Thomas Paine said during the American
Revolution,
'America shall make a stand not for itself alone, but for the world.' And from
that day to this, the voices of other patriots in other times have rung out in
support of human freedom. President Ronald Reagan telling Mr. Gorbachev to
'tear
down that wall.' President Bush atop the rubble at the World Trade Center
telling the terrorists that they would 'hear from all of us soon.' They did
hear from us, and the fight for freedom continues, because we know that if
we do
not fight the terrorists over there in Iraq, in Afghanistan and across the
world, then we will have to face them here, and many more innocent men, women
and children, as well as the patriots defending them, will perish. That's
why we
will prevail. --Secretary Donald Rumsfeld at Arlington
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[WantaghDem]

{false} patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. S. Johnson.

I do not mean to exclude altogether the idea of patriotism. I know it exists, and I know it has done much in the present contest. But I will venture to assert, that a great and lasting war can never be supported on this principle alone. It must be aided by a prospect of interest, or some reward. G. Washington.

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. T. Roosevelt.

What do we mean by patriotism in the context of our times? I venture to suggest that what we mean is a sense of national responsibility ... a patriotism which is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime. A. Stevenson.

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots. B. Ehrenrch.

The peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: "Our country -- when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right." C. Schurz

We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. ER Murrow.

Patriotism ... is a superstition artificially created and maintained through a network of lies and falsehoods; a superstition that robs man of his self-respect and dignity, and increases his arrogance and conct. E. Goldman.

My country, right or wrong" is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying "My mother, drunk or sober. GK Chesterton.

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it. GB Shaw.

The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair. HL Mencken.

Men in authority will always think that criticism of thr policies is dangerous. They will always equate thr policies with patriotism, and find criticism subversive. HS Commager.

I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually. J. Baldwin.

The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. M. Twain.

When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and the purity of its heart. RW Emerson.

Patriotism is proud of a country's virtues and eager to correct its deficiencies; it also acknowledges the legitimate patriotism of other countries, with thr own specific virtues. The pride of nationalism, however, trumpets its country's virtues and denies its deficiencies, while it is contemptuous toward the virtues of other countries. It wants to be, and proclaims itself to be, "the greatest," but greatness is not required of a country; only goodness is. SJ Harris.

Patriotism does not oblige us to acquiesce in the destruction of liberty. Patriotism obliges us to question it, at l. W. Kaminer.

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are bng attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. H. Goering.
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[Yonivore]

al Qaeda and other global terrorist organizations are and have been all over the Arab region for decades. They're all over the globe for that matter. They train in Iraq, they train in Germany, they train in the United States, they train in Britain, Ireland, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Russia, and on and on and on.

The difference is - - and if you'll review your anti-Bush notebooks please - - There are some countries that are attempting to control this within thr borders, there are some countries that are actively destroying terrorist cells within thr borders, and there are countries that aren't, that actively support or, at l, allow it to exist within thr borders.

Now, President Bush has said that he will make no distinction between those that commit terrorist acts and those that harbor them. I think Iraq fell into this category.

Saddam had ample opportunity to help in the war on terrorism, he chose not to. Yes, there are others...I hope the Iraqi example is persuading them to change thr minds.

I know Libya is singing another tune...and, certainly, Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia have at l made concessions...even if they are turning out to be disingenuous. But, at the end of the day, I believe, we will continue until we have contained and hopefully obliterated "terrorist organizations of global reach."

You're with us or your against us. It couldn't be any plainer than that. Call it irresponsible, call it unwarranted hubris, call it self-destructive. I don't care...fact is, we've been pretty secure since September 11 and that's with a worldwide Jihad on to "kill Americans wherever you find them."

I thought they were supposed to be ratcheting up thr Jihad after September 11. I think they've blown thr wad and are just trying to remain alive. And, in spite of the Demoncratic, Liberal, Left complicity with global terrorism (in the form of disingenuous attacks on the current Administration), this Administration is continuing on the path they believe will best provide for our national security.

You sure can't argue with results. ?Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.? - - President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

?We will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them.? - - President George W. Bush
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[WantaghDem]

That's right...you can't argue with the results.

6,000 US casualties
320 US dead
Tens and tens of thousands of Iraqi and Afghani dead and wounded
Afghanistan destroyed
Iraq destroyed, decade-long guerilla war begun
Hundreds of billions of US taxpayer dollars gone
Confidence in the US, both economic and political, lost
American stature in the world now somewhere between Syria and Libya
No shred of evidence that any WMD remained in Iraq before war began
No shred of evidence - admitted by Bush & Co - of Saddam/9/11 connection

Osama bin Laden at large
Ayman Al-Zawahiri at large
Saddam Hussn at large
Not one single indictment in 9/11 attacks
Not one single indictment in anthrax attacks
Al Qaeda larger and stronger than ever
Taliban running large parts of Afghanistan again
Guerillas (really, Saddam Hussn) still running Iraq
Most terrorist attacks against US interests in shortest period of time

Nuclear weapons at the ready in North Korea, unchallenged
Nuclear weapons at the ready in Iraq, unchallenged
Nuclear tension, India/Pakistan, unchallenged
Israel-Palestinian conflict as bad - or worse - than it has ever been
Over 30 State Dept Travel Warnings for Countries in Conflict

Yes, I agree - you can't argue with the results, and no one is even trying to. The overwhelming majority of Americans aren't arguing this - they understand it; consequently, they're voting Bush out of office, holding him responsible for all of it (and so much more, like the economy, the debt, budget cuts, etc etc etc).


THESE ARE THE RESULTS OF AN "ACTIVIST" COURT DECIDING AN ELECTION
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[Yonivore]

Quote:"That's right...you can't argue with the results."
Nope, you can't. Hasn't been an innocent, non-military, non-combatant, American death in the United States in two years. Despite repeated promises by al Qaeda (and others) that another September 11 was just around the next corner.
Quote:"6,000 US casualties
320 US dead
Tens and tens of thousands of Iraqi and Afghani dead and wounded?
All expected consequences of a war. The argument needs to be over whether or not this was a legitimate war. You say no, I say yes.

Throwing realistic consequences of a war into that argument doesn?t make ther case. In other words, if the United States had gone to war over reasons YOU considered legitimate, there still would have been casualties, deaths, damage, and destruction. That?s the nature of war.
Quote:?Afghanistan destroyed
Iraq destroyed,??
Characterizations of a person that lives in nther country, I presume. That there is even one Iraqi or Afghan to counter your characterization, who claims they ARE better off, would cancel out your claim. The question is, are there more of you making this claim than there are indigenous Iraqis or Afghanis making the opposite claim?

Depending on your sources, one could make ther case.

So, I?d say the issue is unresolved and not deserving of such a definitive characterization as you are making. They may be destroyed, they may not. A lot of people said Germany, Japan, and Britain were ?destroyed? after World War II. Seems they were wrong, no?
Quote:??decade-long guerilla war begun?
Again, a one-sided characterization for which there is no supporting evidence. In other words, you?re not psychic.
Quote:?Hundreds of billions of US taxpayer dollars gone.?
To where? Subtract the cost of consumables and you?re left with hundreds of billions of dollars pumped into the economies of Iraq, Afghanistan, our allies, and yes (oh horrors!) the United States.

And, when compared to the estimated Trillion dollars that CAN?T be recovered from the debris of September 11th and it?s resulting consequences in lost wages and tangential economic harm to the airline and service industries?I say it?s a no brainer.
Quote:?Confidence in the US, both economic and political, lost.?
Economy already rebounding and I?d say there?s more of us who have confidence in our current administration than there are that don?t. Again, another one-sided characterization for which you have no support other than your own emotion and those of people with whom you agree.
Quote:?American stature in the world now somewhere between Syria and Libya.?
Really, care to share THAT poll with the group? Another emotion-based characterization.
Quote:?No shred of evidence that any WMD remained in Iraq before war began.?
Never a disclosure from the Iraqi regime of the disposition of WMD they were known to have as late as 1998 (this according to UNSCOM, President Clinton, and others). Where?d they go?
Quote:?No shred of evidence - admitted by Bush & Co - of Saddam/9/11 connection.?
No shred of evidence Jimmy Hoffa was murdered. But, a preponderance of the circumstantial evidence suggests he was. I say (and apparently 70% of my fellow Americans do as well) that regardless of whether or not evidence is found, they believe that Saddam Hussn was involved and that there is a connection. Prove us wrong.
Quote:?Osama bin Laden at large.?
Or dead. Even the latest videotape doesn?t show any evidence of the current date and they had to ?voice over? his message because he never spoke to the camera. How hard is it for him to prove he?s alive? I mean, couldn?t he hold up a current edition of his favorite newspaper, The New York Times, and say something about current events?
Quote:?Ayman Al-Zawahiri at large?
Or dead. Oh, I?m not good with Arabic names, but this name sounds familiar as having been that of someone captured recently, like within the past couple of days. I admit, I could be wrong. Anyway?Who ever he is, he doesn?t seem to be causing any trouble.
Quote:?Saddam Hussn at large.?
Or dead. Although, it is more likely that he is alive than bin Laden, it?s still a possible explanation of his ?low profile.? His hrs to the throne, are dead though. And, most of the leader of his Ba?athist regime are ther dead or captured, including Chemical Ali, that fine specimen of a human bng.
Quote:?Not one single indictment in 9/11 attacks.?
Well, seng as how the hijackers committed suicide, the organizers are in a forgn country bng killed, chased, or in hiding, there?s just not many people to indict. But, now that you mention it, there were some guys from a terrorist cell that plead guilty to crimes related to September 11. Read the news guy.
Quote:?Not one single indictment in anthrax attacks.?
Due Process takes time. It an American thing.
Quote:?Al Qaeda larger and stronger than ever.?
This begs for support. From my angle, if they?re larger, they?re certain less effective than when they were leaner and meaner. Size isn?t everything. Fanatical dedication (such as what most of the dead al Qaedans had) is what you need. I wonder how many of these new terrorists have that level of extremism. But, in any case, they?ve been pretty much impotent since September 11.
Quote:?Taliban running large parts of Afghanistan again.?
They used to run the whole country. That?s not much of an endorsement. And, I believe the large parts they ?run? are mostly uninhabited and are methodically bng purged of Taliban, courtesy of the U.S. Military and its allies. You?re welcome.
Quote:?Guerillas (really, Saddam Hussn) still running Iraq.?
Really? So, the plastics shredder is still mulching his political opponents? He still controls public services and utilities to the various areas of Iraq? He?s surely begun a gassing campaign on the Kurds and the Shi?ites, no? The only thing Saddam Hussn is doing, is running. Period.
Quote:?Most terrorist attacks against US interests in shortest period of time.?
List those ?interests.? I?m not sure I understand your claim. And, are you talking since September 11 or before or during?
Quote:?Nuclear weapons at the ready in North Korea, unchallenged.?
You know, you can only do so many things at once. But, Kim Jung Il knows there?s a reckoning coming. I?m curious about those Chinese troops amassing on his northern border. Think maybe we are in double super-secret negotiations with the Chinese? I think it?s more likely they too are tired of his insane rantings. There are other people in the world that can put checks on rogue regimes. China is one of them.

But, they are in the axis of evil. I suspect (probably without consulting you) that the U.S. government has a strategy with respect to North Korea.
Quote:?Nuclear weapons at the ready in Iraq, unchallenged.?
I thought they didn?t exist.
Quote:?Nuclear tension, India/Pakistan, unchallenged.?
Pakistan and India seem to be challenging each other just fine without anybody?s help. And, you know there are negotiations on both side of that conflict. That they?ve not gone to war says there is diplomatic activity on that front. You seem to believe you?re supposed to be privy to nuance of international negotiations just because you see a problem?
Quote:?Israel-Palestinian conflict as bad - or worse - than it has ever been.?
Would you have us unleash the Israelis? They?d settle that conflict in about, oh, Six Days if we weren?t putting pressure on them to be patient and tolerant of Arafat?s inability or unwillingness to rgn in his murderous ?Palestinians.?
Quote:?Over 30 State Dept Travel Warnings for Countries in Conflict.?
It?s a dangerous world. Always has been. There is a global war going on you know. Or have you forgotten President Bush's address to the nation. You know the one where he said this would be a long war. One of large victories and small ones. One of known battles and unknown ones. One fought in many places both disclosed and not. I know, we're executing it so well that you've yet to be directly affected...but, believe me, there's one bng waged. And, its bng waged in more than Iraq and Afghanistan.
Quote:?Yes, I agree - you can't argue with the results, and no one is even trying to. The overwhelming majority of Americans aren't arguing this - they understand it; consequently, they're voting Bush out of office, holding him responsible for all of it (and so much more, like the economy, the debt, budget cuts, etc etc etc).?
Again with the psychic ability?you?re truly amazing. Maybe you should save this thread and throw it up in our faces when President Bush retires to Texas, next year.
Quote:"THESE ARE THE RESULTS OF AN "ACTIVIST" COURT DECIDING AN ELECTION"
Really? I haven't heard your take on this...I'm sure it's some variation of the standard Demoncratic rant that Bush used the Supreme Court to steal the electoral votes in Florida. Please elaborate. I'd love to debate this issue with you as well. ?Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.? - - President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

?We will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them.? - - President George W. Bush
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[WantaghDem]

...for demonstrating that not only do you have no realistic answers to any of the FACTS given in the above post, but that you are a complete and utter waste of time.

Bye!
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[Yonivore]

Bye. ?Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.? - - President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

?We will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them.? - - President George W. Bush
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[REBEL]

I learned a few things from you.

(WantaghDem gives up so easily.)
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[WantaghDem]

thing is, this guy spends 24/7 on this board, writes thousands and thousands of words, and ends up saying nothing.

he wasn't able to successfully refute a single item in my post above...he ther pretended they never existed or said so? who cares when he couldn't.

and when you get fed up with conspiracy theory nuts who have no grounding in reality, and you move on, someone even more inferior than the psycho says you've given up.

yeah, that's right. that's what it is. ok, dear, take it easy, everything will be alright. thaaaaat's a good boy. now go to sleep and let us adults keep talking, ok dear?
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[REBEL]

yourself, dear WantaughDem.

"the funny
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thing is, this guy spends 24/7 on this board, writes thousands and thousands of words, and ends up saying nothing."


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[WantaghDem]

I could see how a person such as yourself, with no critical thinking skills, with no understand between a number and a number an order of magnitude greater, could see that.

If I try real hard not to use any "smart" I can sorta see how you got there.
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[Yonivore]

I thought you were done with this thread?

Come back for more? ?Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.? - - President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

?We will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them.? - - President George W. Bush
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[WantaghDem]

...who have been reading this thread (well, most of it...some of the stuff reads like a case study in paranoid schizophrenia, so you skim when you can), you will notice that I never claimed to be done with anything other than responding directly to a rather sad and pathetic character who adds nothing to the discussion (not even witty banter or clever trash talk) and is not interested in facts.

And this is not even that person's thread, so......



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[Yonivore]

I'm sorry, just what does "bye" mean?

You ther said it because you were leaving the thread or, that you thought I was leaving the thread. I didn't leave, therefore I drew the "reasonable" conclusion you were.

Are you often prone to obfuscation and careful phrase construction? Most Demoncrats are... ?Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.? - - President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

?We will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them.? - - President George W. Bush
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[WantaghDem]

...you really are this dumb, and maybe you're just trying a childish trick to "get me" to respond to you. ther way, I don't care, and you look like an immature idiot.

The "bye" wasn't to the thread, it was to you. Personally. You're a waste of my time. Hope you understand now, 'cause this really is the last time I deal with you.


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[Yonivore]

Thank God! No one is happier than I you're a quitter.

No, I'm not goading you, please don't feel an obligation to respond. ?Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.? - - President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

?We will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them.? - - President George W. Bush
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