IS THE UN RELEVANT NOW....ARROGANT AMERICANS?

[europeanman]

It is so funny watching you guys beg and grovel to the UN now that you've obviously bitten off more than you can chew. We can't help but laugh as we see Powel..Bremer come crawling back to the UN with thr tail between thr legs! 'We want your help' they now say. We want you to sanction what we are doing.....eerrr...trying to do in Iraq so the rest of the world will give its support.

We need troops..we need money...woe is me..lol!

Where is the big bad.."we don't need no stinking UN"... America now? I would love to see more of supporting countries abandon you guys and the british on this stinker!

What a difference a few weeks make. Here you are offering reward for Saddam ..and you don't even realize..if you capture or kill Saddam...NOBODY CARES!!

We have all witness what the UN warned you about earlier this year..Iraq was NEVER A THREAT TO america. This war was un-necessary if it was indeed fought out of fear of an eminent attack from saddam....we knew this all along.

Like we say in Europe..the only people that think america is great..are the stupid americans!!! lol

[Truman]

If we had done what needed to be done in the first place this war (speed bump) would be over now but because of the bleeding heart immoral morality of the left and morons like you we had to conduct this war as if it were a flag football match (for you europeons "a no check hockey match) only the other team is allowed to hit.

"We need troops..we need money...woe is me..lol! "
Hey if we have to wage war on your terms why not have some pussies help out.

"Where is the big bad.."we don't need no stinking UN"... America now? I would love to see more of supporting countries abandon you guys and the british "
You assholes don't owe us a debt of gratitude or anything, why is it that you people are not living under the tyranny of Fascism or communism. Thats right it is because of the Big Bad Conservative America!

"Like we say in Europe..the only people that think america is great..are the stupid americans!!! lol
"

I knew that and the only people who think that we should listen to europeons or give money to or even acknowledge the existence of europeons are stupid Americans. Look at it this way jealousy is your best virtue.


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[Bootletronn]

Quote:If we had done what needed to be done in the first place this war (speed bump) would be over now but because of the bleeding heart immoral morality of the left and morons like you we had to conduct this war as if it were a flag football match (for you europeons "a no check hockey match) only the other team is allowed to hit.

So you would have been happier to carpet bomb the country indecriminately to win the war?

Quote:Hey if we have to wage war on your terms why not have some pussies help out.

Actually, you waged the war on your terms and now that you cant handle it you want help from the people which you wanted to boycott for objecting to this ill concieved advernture.

Quote:You assholes don't owe us a debt of gratitude or anything, why is it that you people are not living under the tyranny of Fascism or communism. Thats right it is because of the Big Bad Conservative America!

Well these two examples are pretty much moot due to the fact that there was international consensus on having to deal with these issues when in Iraq there was very little support for it.

Quote:I knew that and the only people who think that we should listen to europeons or give money to or even acknowledge the existence of europeons are stupid Americans. Look at it this way jealousy is your best virtue.

You give us money? Are you talking about trade. If you are then we give you money too. And what are you talking about "acknowledge" europe? Europe is infinitely older than America and has culture dating back for thousands of years. Remember that you are just a European immigrant like most others in the US. As for the jealousy, you must be joking. I'm a lot happier living in a place that holds people in higher regard than corporations. I'd advise you to look at the poverty rates, literacy rates, the health systems, etc. in America compared to any wastern European country and see which fares better and whose standards of living is better.
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[europeanman]

We have a much longer history of bng civilized than you Americans. Ever see the way a poor country bumpkin behaves when he suddenly inherits some money?

On a Global scale that is how we Europeans view you americans! When that country bumpkin gets some money he'll buy extravagant stupid looking wares to show off ..and he'll also claim everyone is jealous. We can't help but see you making an ass of yourself during the tourist season in our country. Its amazing to see how this attitude permeates right to the top ranks of your leadership.

To Europeans watching american politicians the past few months is very much like you watching "Mike Tyson"..especially the 90's Mike Tyson. He was rich then..wasn't he..and I believe he frequently publicly scoffed at authority much the same way. Well thats america to us in Europe...you are rich..yes..you have big guns..yes..but you are unpolished..class-less and pretty much a ruffian with money.

We'll continue to watch your sorry asses looking around for help with this tragic situation in Iraq!

[SuffolkMD]

Europeanman and Bootletron,

It might help us if we knew what country(countries) you live in.

I'm sure you don't agree that Europe is a country, do you?

Anyway, before you start calling our leaders "classless" and "arrogant" (although I would agree with Bill Clinton), Wasn't Europe full of countries that had monarchies, you know, where the not so arrogant kings and queens felt that thr power derived from God, and all the "commoners" were subject to the whim of thr "lords" and "noblemen" and not free citizens in and of themselves?

Didn't this all end with OUR Revolution and institution of our Constitutional Republic? Didn't Europeans throw off the yoke of tyranny when they saw what we have done?

Technically speaking, most European countries have thr present form of government "younger" than the US.

And let's not forget the classy leaders of Europe like Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, the various King Louis, George III, Edward the Longshanks. Don't forget the Russian Czar Nicholas, Stalin. Shall I go on?

Now, what country would you like to claim as your home?

SuffolkMD
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[WantaghDem]

"Didn't this all end with OUR Revolution and institution of our Constitutional Republic? "

Look into something that began in Europe. Called the Enlightenment. Couldn't have had our revolution without it.

"Technically speaking, most European countries have thr present form of government "younger" than the US."

The basis of our government was derived from European forms of government thousands of years before the American Revolution.

Or have you forgotten Rome, Greece, etc.?


By your reasoning, Bill Gates invented computers because he is currently the most successful entrepreneur in the computer industry.


Santayana applies here, don't you think?
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[SuffolkMD]

True,

We did base it on the Roman Republic, but at the time of the Revolution, Italy was a bunch of kingdoms, was it not? They didn't even unify into "Italy" until the 20th century. So there government is still younger than ours.

As well, the enlightenment had a lot to do with our Revolution, but Kingdoms still ran these "enlightened" countries. Only the French threw off these yokes, and that was due to our revolution's success.

So you haven't nullified my argument, you, in fact, have strengthened my point. Thank you

Suffolk
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[europeanman]

...to European countries YOU DOLT!

Its so funny you guys on one hand beat your chest about bng american..and when no one is looking you start bragging about your european ancestry.

We are much more refined as a people than you are as americans. You are un-couth and do not have the polish attitude we have.

I live in the UK with French/Italian parents. I'm the US approximately 4 months each year..so I'm very familiar with your customs.

You again strengthen my point whilst you made your last post. Bill Clinton (and in UK they revere that man) did a personal act that was human and wrong. Its not an american thing..that happens quite often in our region as well.

What we see quite clearly is the difference between his act and your current leader's act of ling to start a war. Sure Tony Blair is also guilty and the British people bng more sophisticated has condemned his treachery. Whilst here in america you guys salute this ruffin (bush) for leading this crime. It shows your immaturity as a nation. In fact when you step back and look at the situation you americans behave much the way they do in the middle . Compulsive, zealots who do not pause to think ahead. I know in my region bush and Clinton would be greeted quite differently by the local (not the politicians) people.

I'll continue watch your leaders beg for help from thr european counter parts in the Iraq mess they single handidly created.

[SuzieQ]

You are so transparent and typical of most people who are not Americans. The real reason for your anger is jealousy. You want what we have but cannot get it from the second class country you come from. Instead of bng angry at us, you should try to emulate American know-how, courage and creativity and perhaps you would offer us some competion on the world stage. Your cultures are so much older than ours. You should be our allies and offer us the benefit of your experience on serious issues but instead you cannot deal with the fact that you are not a world power any longer, if in fact you ever where, so you are bitter. If something happens in your country, you will come running to us for help. We do not care whether you like us or not actually and in fact, we will not travel to your country or buy your products so you have only hurt yourself. Americans have a long memory.
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[Kane]

How you title this thread with the phrase "arrogant americans" yet you rant on and on about how refined brits are "whilst" we barbaric americans are "un-couth"(?).

What is a Polish attitude? And why do people from the UK have it? Shouldn't you have a British attitude?

Are you a disgruntled descendant of Neville Chamberlain? He "paused to look at the situation". Great strategy!
Thank God the only guy with balls over there runs the country. Are the majority of you pasty limys castrated at birth? I guess the ones who aren't become hooligans and can't watch a soccer game without starting a riot. Refined indeed.

[WantaghDem]

But I figured she'd do that, so, whatever.

"You are so transparent and typical of most people who are not Americans."

I completely agree, about the second part. He is completely typical of most people who are not Americans. Since...well, gee, Suzie, I, uh, I don't know how to tell you this, but, uhhh...MOST people aren't Americans!

BY A SIGNIFICANT DEGREE!

We are just a few percent of the world's population.

Therefore, it is a good bet that most anyone in the world is typical of most people who are not Americans! This is precisely what makes them typical people - thr not bng Americans!


Can you hear us laughing at you?
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[Bootletronn]

Quote:It might help us if we knew what country(countries) you live in.

I'm from Ireland.

Quote:I'm sure you don't agree that Europe is a country, do you?

No, Europe is not a country ,it is an economic union slowly integrating into an entity of common interests.

Quote:Wasn't Europe full of countries that had monarchies, you know, where the not so arrogant kings and queens felt that thr power derived from God, and all the "commoners" were subject to the whim of thr "lords" and "noblemen" and not free citizens in and of themselves?

European politics over the centuries derived from institutions that came into power and evolved, such as the feudal system, monarchies, the church, facism and democracy. America on the other hand took an existing model and implemented it in its on form based on British constitutional democracy.

Quote:Didn't this all end with OUR Revolution and institution of our Constitutional Republic? Didn't Europeans throw off the yoke of tyranny when they saw what we have done?

As I have stated above, the US took an existing formula and implemented it.

Quote:And let's not forget the classy leaders of Europe like Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, the various King Louis, George III, Edward the Longshanks. Don't forget the Russian Czar Nicholas, Stalin. Shall I go on?

Indeed. These people were disgusting, abhorant leaders and is accepted universally. But we have lived through it and learned and people acknowledge the attrocities that they committed which is something the US fails to do. I think Kissenger and Nixon could be added to that list.
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[europeanman]

Again..like I've said before..you americans are fixated with the Mike Tyson appeal..."I'm the champion..I got my money and you are all just jealous"...this man represent you very well.

In your case it is..."we are the best..we have our guns..we have our money and the rest of the world is just jealous".

Nobody is jealous..you simpleton!

Just look at it this way. Since you still have a big divide in your country between races. If you are white and drive a honda....do you get jealous when a black/mexican pulls up beside you in a BMW?

We all say in europe.."the only people who think america is the greatest.. ..are the stupid americans"!

When we see you with your money its just...there goes another american seeking attention.


It should be a love fest between you and the crazy iraqis..you are all alike..simplistic..ego driven zealots!

We in the civilized world will watch as you make an ass of yourselves. Because as a country you have no-class and it shows.

[SuzieQ]

You are so angry at me because you are jealous of me. Just admit it. Just reading your last rant proves my point. I do not care whether you like me or not as you are not important to me. By the way, I am not a "simpleton" you jerk. A simpleton would be intimidated by your stupid rantings but you only make me laugh. Tee he!! Get a grip and spend your energy on what is important in life instead of bng jealous of the U.S. I hope you do not live in America as you are a boor!!
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[SuzieQ]

I did not reply because I forgot what thread you were on. As to your quote, that most "American are not Americans." Then what the heck are they? I guess American's can best be described as "mutts," but that is truly what we are. A nation of all ethnic groups and that is what makes us so unique in all the world. Because we have a mix of all different nationalities that have put thr heads together is the reason we have come so far so fast. Most countries have nationality in common and mostly they think a certain way. But we have so many different views on things we always come up with something great. We cannot be pinned down to one thought or idea as we have many. We also have so many religious groups unlike most countries who tend to practice the same religion. I love living here and am offended by folks who try to make us look small. I do not understand why people try to destroy something that is working, not always perfectly, but better than anywhere else. Is that so naive???? People must learn to assimilate so we can all work together. Some of these countries are having horrible civil wars because they cannot see eye to eye and put aside thr fears and hatred for the good of all the people.
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[SuzieQ]

Sorry about my last post but I misunderstood your point of view as I am getting bleary-eyed typing on here. You are right, most people in the world are not Americans but I really do not care about whether they like us or not. I do not want to appease them or try to win thr affection. After all the aid and support we have given so many countries over the years and they have the audacity to hate us!!. I would rather they respect us for our power. Maybe in another century we will all be able to play nice if we do not blow each other up in the meantime. Somehow though, I do not see that happening, human nature bng what it is. If you have ever been to Ireland you would see human nature in action on a small scale. Each person owns a farm or home in the town and it is surrounded with rock walls. Partly because there are a lot of rocks but mostly because it is thrs and they cling tightly to thr property. We here in America feel the same and we will die to protect it. That is most of us would. The European Union is trying to destroy boundaries between the countries and meld everyone together. I believe they are trying to emulate America but also they are trying to create an entity which will equal the power of the United States. Many countries are bng duped into joining the EU to thr peril. This is one to watch as the Germans and the Vatican are closely joined in this along with France and they have an agenda. This is a whole other thing though.
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[WantaghDem]

"After all the aid and support we have given so many countries over the years and they have the audacity to hate us!!"

Do you honestly believe that? Do you honestly think that we give and give, and do only good, and that other countries do not like us simply because they choose not to?

First of all, we don't give that much and we don't do that much good. We do - but it has to be examined in light of what we do that is bad. It has to be wghed, and measured as a whole. And when many many people around the world measure us, we come up to them doing more bad than good.


Do you like Al Qaeda? They bombed our cities two years ago (I lost both family and friends). Do you ever think that you could learn to like Al Qaeda? Will you ever forget that? Even if years from now Al Qaeda gives you money? I hope not.

That's the same with many other parts of the world. It doesn't matter that we build a hospital in one part of the world. It matters that we have raped, or destroyed, thr part of the world. And they remember.

They remember that one day a big plane from the United States flew overhead, dropped some bombs, and killed thr family.

They remember that one day thr government came - in tanks and trucks and helicopters supplied by the United States - and took away every male in thr town between the ages of 13 and 65.

They remember that one day thr freedoms disappeared, taken by people trained and advised (and directed) by military officers from the United States.

They remember that one day a revolution began in thr country that was funded and orchestrated by the United States, and that plunged thr country into chaos for the next three decades.

They remember that one day they were attacked by an enemy, and people were killed by the hundreds of thousands, and the United States stood by and did nothing.

They remember that one night thr brother, and thr best friend, and thr nghbor were taken away, never to be seen again, by people who were trained and accompanied by United States troops.

They remember that one night troops from the United States came, raped thr mother, killed thr father, and destroyed thr village.

They remember that one day they saw thr president taken out onto the beach and shot by rebels with weapons given to them by the United States to overthrow thr government.

They remember that one day they woke up and all of thr natural resources had been stolen by the United States and they were left with nothing.

They remember that one day they turned around and thr government had sold thr country to the United States, and that they never saw thr own country again.

They remember.

And they are angry.

And they are afraid.

And they are resolved that this will never happen again.


These people do not hate us because we are free. That is illogical nonsense. They do not hate us because we are rich.

They hate us because we became and remain free and rich by harming many many other countries, and by allowing other countries to harm them without consequence.


Can they bomb us without consequence? Of course not. We have taken our revenge, and we will continue to do so. That is how we have always conducted ourselves.

What those other countries are teaching us is that we, too, cannot bomb them without consequence. They are taking thr revenge, and they will continue to do so. That is how they will conduct themselves from now on.
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[ACELAW]

you all have to cut WantaghDem a break, she is playing two parts here, eurotrash and her other self WantaghDem.
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[Truman]

"They hate us because we became and remain free and rich by harming many many other countries, and by allowing other countries to harm them without consequence."

Do I even need to, I know you Watadummy and this is such a hypocritical statement for you. without consequence? what exactly would you suggest as a consequence? A timeout?no pudding after dinner? How about if we make them write:
"I will not teach my children to kill innocent people as I kill myself in the name of allah"
"I will not teach my children to kill innocent people as I kill myself in the name of allah"
"I will not teach my children to kill innocent people as I kill myself in the name of allah"

100 times and promise not to do it again.

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[SuffolkMD]

Europeanman (who reports to live in the UK).

1) We have the strongest economy
2) We have the most superior military forces
3) We have the best form of government
4) We have a Document that guarantees certain rights from oppression to our citizens (and even some of you aliens)
5) Since a paper document cannot keep a people free, yes, we do have our guns, to ensure that our government will not infringe on our rights.
6) We have the hardest-working and most innovative people in the world.

So yes, we are the best.

Why are some of you europeans jealous, well, see 1-6 above.

In any case, if you live in the UK, why are you here? I don't choose to live in places that I hate so much.

SuffolkMD


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[SuffolkMD]

Bootletron,

Ah yes, Ireland. Land of my ancestors who were smart enough to leave. That explains a lot about you.

As a relatively new country youself (a lot younger than us), do you think you have the right to criticize us?

Did we not overthrow the English when you couldn't? A little admiration will do here, thank you.

Is your government not a Republic now, thanks to us?

Have not many leaders of our country, helped in the negotiations between Ireland and England, in order to secure for you YOUR country for yourselves?

And no, America did not take an existing form of government and implement it. In 1776, no where in the world was there a Republican form of government. Our Republic was based on ancient Rome, 2000 years before. Even the English, with thr parliament, was not a Republic, it was a monarchy with strong power in the hands of the king, not the people. And George III was an ass.

So give a little credit, here, please, and a little thanks for helping you take your country back.

SuffolkMD
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[WantaghDem]

"1) We have the strongest economy"

No, we absolutely don't. We might have the largest GDP in real terms, but we have a horrible economy right now due to Bush's complete mishandling of every single thing.

"2) We have the most superior military forces"

Let's see how true that is (and if it is, thank you President Clinton for ght years of military support) when we actually try to fight a war with a country that has a larger military than Rhode Island.

"3) We have the best form of government"

Really? Hmmm...ummmm....NOPE. See #1 for at l one necessary improvement.

" 4) We have a Document that guarantees certain rights from oppression to our citizens (and even some of you aliens)"

No, it doesn't. The paper doesn't do that. The government is supposed to do that - the government that is currently systematically replacing each and every one of those rights with an IOU to be repaid "after the war on terror." You know, the conservative philosophy: you have to destroy the village in order to save it.

"5) Since a paper document cannot keep a people free, yes, we do have our guns, to ensure that our government will not infringe on our rights."

NOT ONLY has there NEVER been a time in US history that "the people" have HAD to "ensure" that "the government" does not "infringe" on "our rights" by using "guns" - THAT IS SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED BY LAW.

It's funny to see the gun nuts talking about needing guns so they can overthrow the government if it gets out of hand. THIS IS TREASON - PUNISHABLE BY DEATH - AND IS SPECIFICALLY DEALT WITH BY THE VENERABLE FRAMERS IN THE CONSTITUTION! OUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT (the one you called the "best") DOES NOT ALLOW FOR CHANGING THE GOVERNMENT BY ANY OTHER MEANS.

That's why the party that represents militia members, racists, white supremacists, rapists, serial killers, drug dealers, and other gun nuts fulfilled thr promise to thr consituents and IMPEACHED President Clinton. IT IS UNLAWFUL EVEN TO SUGGEST THE OVERTHROW OF THE GOVERNMENT BY FORCE.

You are an idiot, you know that, right?

"6) We have the hardest-working and most innovative people in the world."

If you knew ANYTHING about economics you would know how much of a horse's ass you sound making an idiotic statement like this. We have the laziest, most entitled work force on the planet - and management that will steal, cheat, and copy any and all ideas from other countries to make up for the lack of originality of our workforce.


What a fool.

[yeah but]

Can't you debate with facts. Back up what you say with facts. We see no facts, WD.

Lemme debate as U do.

Everything U said is a lie. Boy, this is EZ. I won the debate.

Who has the best standard of living in this world? Hint: the USA. If I had 5 million bucks and lived in North Korea and could not buy food, et cetera because there was no food, et cetera what good is it?

If U think there is a better country, go there.
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[SuffolkMD]

WantaghDem,

You have got nerve calling for intelligent debate, when it is you cannot offer it. First off, your last post was complete and utter garbage, with no basis in reality.

But more importantly, you are representative of the problem with the Democratic Party. You are so full of hate, that your answer to everyone's opinion is to insult them and call names. Everyone to you is "an idiot". That is what the entire party does, and that is why they are losing.

And I certainly won't put up with it any longer. So I will ignore your posts from now on. Now you can sit back and convince yourself that it is because you have won the debate, but it is not. It is because it is people like you that Bootletron and Europeanman refer to when they say Americans are "un-couth" and have "no-class".

I will no longer answer your posts, since you are intellectually beneath me.

Suffolk
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[SuffolkMD]

Wantagh,

My last post didn't get through.

What you posted last is the biggest load of garbage that has no basis in reality.

But what's worse, is that you don't debate, even though you clamor for "intelligent debate". You are incapable of it. Your answer to everyone is "You are an idiot".

I will no longer answer your posts. You will think that it is because you have won the debate. Whatever. The answer is that you are not intelligent enough to debate. You just name-call, a sure sign of a loser.

No, I will not answer since I don't appreciate bng insulted by someone who is clearly intellectually beneath me. I advise other posters to do the same.

Suffolk
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[MisterEd]

Quote:Who has the best standard of living in this world? Hint: the USA.

Well actually, a while ago I saw a list of 173 countries, starting with the most prosperous and ending with ..... the l prosperous (big surprise).

The US was 6th. I remember Norway was first, then Sweden, Canada and the rest.

Now let us wait for the first idiot to say "If it so good there, why don't just move there! So no one can talk back to us! Moron!"

Quote:I will no longer answer your posts, since you are intellectually beneath me.

If you say something like that yourself, it completely takes away the power of statement (and could make you look like an arrogant, pretentious egotripper). At l you seem to stick to the subject, which I can't say about the rest of you.
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[Kane]

No, I will not answer since I don't appreciate bng insulted by someone who is clearly intellectually beneath me. I advise other posters to do the same.

This was the actual quote from Suffolk MD.

Hint: If you're going to lie about what others write to prove a point, make sure the ACTUAL TEXT is not directly above your distorted lie.

[yeah but]

Where did you get this from?

What specifically makes thr standard of living better than ours. More tv sets? Better food? Bigger house? More maids? Better car?

An on the chance that this is true, bng 6 is not so bad. We could be better if we didn't have to pay so much taxes. (Why I might even have more tv sets.) Bush wanted to let us keep more of our money and the economy is improving. It would have improved more if the liberals cooperated more and let us keep even more of our money.

And I gotta say Mr. E, U liberals really do stick together right or WRONG. U ought to admit that WD guy/gal is a rude dude.
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[WantaghDem]

Moral outrage from a conservative over bng called names.

Indigation from a conservative over bng considered less than patriotic.

Contempt from a conservative over bng told that his argument is worthless.


I have been stating for weeks that occassionally I would argue ONLY the way that conservatives argue on this board, in the media, and in "conservative phiosophy."

You can clearly see from the majority of my posts to serious respectful people that I am serious and respectful.

But I am sick and tired of bng called everything bad under the sun just for bng smarter, better-educated, better-read, and more able to understand subtle differences that effect public policy.

So I take on your tactics and you get upset!

This is NOT the way liberals debate. But you cannot have a debate with a person who is intelectually bereft and dishonest. You cannot argue with a person who refuses to conform to understood principles of right and wrong, of fact vs fantasy, and of reason vs opinion.

So I have taken each and every tactic from the right and spewed it back at you.....and what do I hear in return? Moral outrage! From a movement that has no moral compass!

Indignation! From a movement that has never considered the other side of any argument, and relies on a book of magic spells to tell them what to do!

Contempt! From a movement that could not care less about thr fellow human ("How do you have patience for people who claim they love America, but clearly can't stand Americans?")!

NOW do you get it?

Just a sampling from today's media - a SAMPLING:

Laura Ingraham
Michael Savage
Bill O'Rlly
Chuck Morse
Neal Boortz
New York Post
Drudge Report
World Net Daily News
Judicial Watch News
Front Page Magazine
Media Research Accuracy In Media
CNS News
Town Hall News
CBN
Cato Institute
American Spectator
Heritage Foundation
National Review
New American
Free Republic News
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Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right by Ann Coulter

Useful Idiots: How Liberals Got It Wrong in the Cold War and Still Blame America First by Mona Charen

Dereliction of Duty: The Eyewitness Account of How Bill Clinton Endangered America's Long-Term National Security by Robert Patterson

Off with Thr Heads : Traitors, Crooks & Obstructionists in American Politics, Media & Business by Dick Morris

The Savage Nation: Saving America from the Liberal Assault on Our Borders, Language and Culture by Michael Savage

Let Freedom Ring by Sean Hannity

High Crimes and Misdemeanors by Ann Coulter

Tales from the Left Coast by James L. Hirsen, Newsmax Com

Hillary's Scheme by Carl Limbacher

Thunder on the Left by Gary Aldrich

When I Was a Kid, This Was a Free Country by G. Gordon Liddy

Bias by Bernard Goldberg

Why the Left Hates America by Daniel J. Flynn

[yeah but]

U lie to us and U lie to yourself, dude. It's U who calls the names & U who lies. The conservatives debate with respect UNTIL they are treated with disrespect. Is tit for tat what they call it?

I like those folks and books you mentioned. Thanks for that anyway.
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[WantaghDem]

If someone wants to argue about WHETHER higher or lower tax rates are better for the economy;

If someone wants to argue about WHETHER the use of force should be the first tool out of the bag;

If someone wants to argue about WHETHER social services should be increased or decreased;

Then, I say, bring it on.

But the VAST majority of conservatives seem to be AFRAID of debating like this, and instead resort to LYING in order to make a point that they cannot make with the facts.

CASE IN POINT:

"We could be better if we didn't have to pay so much taxes."

OK, granted, the poster may not actually be lying. He or she may actually be this stupid. But I'm not supposed to call a stupid person a stupid person, so I guess I'll have to call them a liar instead.

"Bush wanted to let us keep more of our money and the economy is improving."

Two lies and a distortion in one sentence.

First of all, it's NOT YOUR MONEY. Any money that you make in this country - ANY - you make as a result of American citizens paying for infrastructure, education, defense, international trade, transportation, legal protections, etc etc etc. IN RETURN, you MUST pay into the system IN ORDER to keep it functioning. If NO ONE paid taxes for anything other than defense, the economy would grind to a halt in a matter of seconds.

TAXES ARE THE MONTHLY DUES OF DEMOCRACY. YOU CANNOT "MAKE IT" "ON YOUR OWN."

Second, Bush did NOT want to let YOU keep ANYTHING. He wants to allow the top 1% of Americans to get away with more than murder, and he's suckered you - that's right, YOU'VE been FOOLED - into paying for it.

Third, I have to go back to my liar/stupid argument above. You are one or the other. IF SOME ECONOMIC INDICATORS ARE NOT WORSENING AT THE SAME RATE AS THEY HAVE BEEN, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE ECONOMY IS IMPROVING.

I'm trying to keep this in plain language so you can stay with us. A decrease in the rate that monthly unemployment is increasing means that we are still getting worse, just more slowly.

Both the unemployment rate and nonfarm payroll employment edged down in July. Payroll employment has declined for the past 6 months. Job losses continued in manufacturing.

That's just unemployment. In GDP, yes, there was an increase....1.4% in Q1, 3.1$ in Q2....but the majority of the increase is defense spending and (unless Bush is trying to win in 2004 on the deaths of American soldiers) that isn't going to be a constant.

In other words, the same reason the GDP "increased" in Q2 is the same reason Coulter's book is "doing well." Sugar daddy infusions of cash aren't in the long-term picture.

Our economy is tanking. You're LYING if you're saying ANYTHING ELSE. Or, as I said, uhhh.....stupid.

"It would have improved more if the liberals cooperated more and let us keep even more of our money."

I don't even think I need to answer this. It is the most ridiculous statement of his/her post. Republican House, Republican Senate, Republican President - and it's ALL THE LIBERALS' FAULT!

I won't even give you a choice on this last one: just plain stupid.


(another case in point is the conservative lie about Senator Clinton's book NOT doing well and NOT covering her advance, printing, marketing, etc costs, AND causing "layoffs").

[Bootletronn]

OK, this is going to take a while.

Quote:You are so angry at me because you are jealous of me.
No one is jealous of you, please get over yourself.

Quote:The European Union is trying to destroy boundaries between the countries and meld everyone together.

The EU is an economic bloc with common interests and therefore works together. No country is giving up thr national identity or sovergnty.

Quote:Many countries are bng duped into joining the EU to thr peril.
Most countries that joined the EU was by referendum and people know the advantages and disadvantages of it.

Quote:3) We have the best form of government 5) Since a paper document cannot keep a people free, yes, we do have our guns, to ensure that our government will not infringe on our rights.
Does this not contradict itself. If you have the best form of government why do people need to carry guns to protect themselves from it. Saying you have the best for of government is a bit silly. It may be good for America but how could that be implemented in, lets say, Norway? Each country has a government that serves the needs of each individual country.

Quote:6) We have the hardest-working and most innovative people in the world.
Do you have any statistics or even any reasoning for this statement?

Quote:In any case, if you live in the UK, why are you here? I don't choose to live in places that I hate so much.
This has to be one of the most rediculous arguments I have ever heard. If a government was in place in the US that you abhored would you think about leaving the country because of it or would you try to change it for the better?

Quote:Ah yes, Ireland. Land of my ancestors who were smart enough to leave. That explains a lot about you.
I'm not going to dignify that with an answer.

Quote:As a relatively new country youself (a lot younger than us), do you think you have the right to criticize us?
Ireland got its independance in 1921 but was a country before invasion which goes back over 800 years. We also had one of the oldest forms of law in the world, the Brehan law.

Quote:Did we not overthrow the English when you couldn't? A little admiration will do here, thank you.
Didnt you have help from the French? Its also a lot difficult to rule a country half way across the world than it is to rule a country tens of miles away. We got our independance anyway thank you.

Quote:Is your government not a Republic now, thanks to us?
Yes it is a republic but I fail to see how it is thanks to America.

Quote:Have not many leaders of our country, helped in the negotiations between Ireland and England, in order to secure for you YOUR country for yourselves?
No it hasnt. Clinton helped broker a deal for peace in Northern Ireland but it never helped us gain independance.

Quote:So give a little credit, here, please, and a little thanks for helping you take your country back.
You didnt. Buy a history book.

Quote:Who has the best standard of living in this world? Hint: the USA.
OK, you can do a comparison of any other western country but I will take my own country, Ireland, to compare standards of living in America.

Infant mortality rate:
Ireland: 5.34 deaths/1,000 live births
US: 6.75 deaths/1,000 live births

Literacy:
Ireland: total population: 98% (1981 est.)
US: total population: 97%

Population below poverty line:
Ireland: 10% (1997 est.)
US: 12.7% (2001 est.)

Unemployment rate:
Ireland: 4.3% (2002 est.)
US: 5.8% (2002)

Source www.cia.gov/cia/publicati...index.html

If you want to be humiliated you can compare Sweden if you so wish.

Quote:It is because it is people like you that Bootletron and Europeanman refer to when they say Americans are "un-couth" and have "no-class".
Actually if you look through all of my posts you will see that I never said or even implied that. I have not resorted to insults as I dont see any merit in doing so. I also dont believe in tarring a whole nation with the same brush.


________
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[mmd10]

The problem with the UN is that none of these nations have been free, truely free like the US long enough.
They don't know how to act with the freedom the US gave them by spilling our blood, they don't know how to maintain freedom, they don't know how to aquire freedom. Why should the US listenm to anything an oranization who votes the US off of its human rights council, and votes the SUdan(who by the way have slavery this very day), and eclects Colonal Khadafi(libya) it's leader.

Didn't the UN let a few millin get slaughtered in Rolanda too?

Someone please tell me why we should even remain and pay for this organization. When all they do is tell us how we should act and what laws we should have etc.. These people are a self-serving, jealous of America joke.

Ask the UN why they block sales of our so called franken-foods to Africa and Asia, that could stop the death by starvation and blindness etc.. The UN makes me sick, all the death and destrution they allow because they have no understanding of freedom. They act like spoiled little children.

The fact that Al Gore and the libby dems want to hand over our soveriegnty to them scares the sh!t out of me.
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[Bootletronn]

Quote:The problem with the UN is that none of these nations have been free, truely free like the US long enough.
Most countries in the UN have a history much longer and more colourful than the US.

Quote:They don't know how to act with the freedom the US gave them by spilling our blood, they don't know how to maintain freedom, they don't know how to aquire freedom.
The US has probobly done more than most to deny freesdom to millions throughout the world by overthrowing democracies and putting puppet dictators in place and also by vetoing more UN resolutions than any other country.

Quote:Why should the US listenm to anything an oranization who votes the US off of its human rights council, and votes the SUdan
Didnt the US refuse to ratify the UN convention on the rights of the child, the other country bng Sudan?

Quote:Someone please tell me why we should even remain and pay for this organization.
It might surprise you to kmow that the US actually owes the UN money.

Quote:These people are a self-serving, jealous of America joke.
I wish you people would get over yourselves. No one is jealous. So when the US criticises, lets say Iran, does that mean that they're jealous of them?

Quote:Ask the UN why they block sales of our so called franken-foods to Africa and Asia, that could stop the death by starvation and blindness etc..
Franken foods? Never heard the term. Please explain.

Quote:The UN makes me sick, all the death and destrution they allow because they have no understanding of freedom.
What about tha death and destruction the US causes? Its fart greater than the UN allows. As for the "no understanding of freedom", the US has overthrown more democratically elected regimes than any other country and replaced them with brutal dictatorships and continues to prop many of them up still including the most oppressive regime, Saudi Arabia (good friends of the Bush's. Is that what you call freedom?

Quote:They act like spoiled little children
The US has vetoed more UN resolutions than any other country. It does not abide by the UN charter, it ignores the UN whenever it sees fit and has an attitude that there is one set of rules for the US and an other set for the rest of the world. The US has done more than most to make the UN into the sorry state it is today. Now who are the biggest children?
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[europeanman]

Beause he had money, fame and could pack a punch..and he also said emphatically you were jealous. So I ask you americans.....were you jealous of Mike Tyson?

You are all one big joke to us!

[mmd10]

bottle
"Most countries in the UN have a history much longer and more colourful than the US."

mmd10
Yes true, but alot of them Europeans left thier country to come here. Think about why some of them countries are free, you are just a jealous zealot.

bottle
The US has probobly done more than most to deny freesdom to millions throughout the world by overthrowing democracies and putting puppet dictators in place and also by vetoing more UN resolutions than any other country.

mmd10
Communist democracies? Thats a paradoxical statement you just made.


bootle
Didnt the US refuse to ratify the UN convention on the rights of the child, the other country bng Sudan?

mmd10
I can't comment on this one, I do not know enough info about the subject.


bottle
It might surprise you to kmow that the US actually owes the UN money.

mmd10
Would that be money we purposely held back?
It might surprise you that Europe and ecspecially France still owe us money from WWII.

bottle
I wish you people would get over yourselves. No one is jealous. So when the US criticises, lets say Iran, does that mean that they're jealous of them?


mmd10
The UN will wait til it's too late to stop Iran from getting a newclear(hehe) bomb.


bottle
Franken foods? Never heard the term. Please explain


mmd10
The food Al Franken buys. No just kidding, franken-foods are the genetically altered seeds that can bear fruit etc.. in a drout type situation like Africa has a problem with, genetically altered rice that puts the much needed vitamin A into the rice that could help stop Asians from going blind.


bottle
What about tha death and destruction the US causes? Its fart greater than the UN allows. As for the "no understanding of freedom", the US has overthrown more democratically elected regimes than any other country and replaced them with brutal dictatorships and continues to prop many of them up still including the most oppressive regime, Saudi Arabia (good friends of the Bush's. Is that what you call freedom?

mmd10
Who was the democracy in Saudi Arabia? That is not a good example. If the US killed 10,000 but saved 10,000,000 which is better in your mind. I think the Rolandaians would disagree with your presumptions about the UN. I think the Iraqi's would too.


bootle
The US has vetoed more UN resolutions than any other country. It does not abide by the UN charter, it ignores the UN whenever it sees fit and has an attitude that there is one set of rules for the US and an other set for the rest of the world. The US has done more than most to make the UN into the sorry state it is today. Now who are the biggest children?

mmd10
The UN is anti-american and anti-semetic, please. Who created the UN? Who funds it more than any other? Without the US you would not have your freedom or your UN. Why do you bite the hand that feeds you. You critisize, but you sure know who to call when its time to spill blood.

The UN is a joke. I wish the US would get out. In fact did you know the US is the only self sufficient country in the world, we could survive without the rest of the world. The question is, could the UN or the rest of the world survive without us. I think not, you'd all be speaking German or Russian without the US. Over 100,000,000 deaths accounted to communism all over the world. You cry because maybe the US killed a handfull fighting communism. Get a clue.



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[Bootletronn]

Quote:Yes true, but alot of them Europeans left thier country to come here. Think about why some of them countries are free, you are just a jealous zealot.
America is populated by Europeans. Most white people in America originated from Europeans. Whats your point? Please stop using this jealousy thing, its getting old and you base your accusations on some delusional logic.

Quote:Communist democracies? Thats a paradoxical statement you just made.
If a party is elected by the majority of the voting public, regardless of political ideologies, it is a democratically elected government. Just because the US may not like the political ideology doesnt mean it should overthrow a democratically elected government and install brutal dictators. Take a look at what the US did to Italy after WWII and throughout South America. Is anyone entitled to assassinate Bush because they dont like what he stands for?

Quote:I can't comment on this one, I do not know enough info about the subject.
Look it up, it is fact. They also vetoed a UNSC resolution calling on all member states to observe international law as well as many other moral and progressive resolutions.

Quote:It might surprise you that Europe and ecspecially France still owe us money from WWII.
Did I deny that? Were we even discussing that? You said the UN owed the US when it doesnt. What you said is false. Also I'm from Ireland and we didnt get anything from the Marshall Plan as we were not involved in the war so I dont really care what France owes, although I didnt know the Marshall Plan was a loan. Also, the American government didnt pay for the Marshall Plan, the US taxpayer did. So while US tax payers money was bng invested in Europe, rich Europeans money was bng sent to New York banks instead of bng invested in Europe. So as a result the US government payed nothing and had European money invested in American businessess and banks. Now thats smart capitalism.

Quote:The UN will wait til it's too late to stop Iran from getting a newclear(hehe) bomb.
The UN are pushing hard for unlimited UN inspections as is the EU by using diplomatic pressure (something you can do when you have a good relationship with a country and have economic power over them) unlike Americas policy of isolation.

Quote:No just kidding, franken-foods are the genetically altered seeds that can bear fruit etc.. in a drout type situation like Africa has a problem with, genetically altered rice that puts the much needed vitamin A into the rice that could help stop Asians from going blind.
1) There is enough excess food to feed the world but western countries choose to stockpile it so they can regulate the prices by flooding the market.
2)Farmers have to buy seeds every year as these GM crops are made to not produce sees so that they have a constant demand.
3)Special pesticides, herbisides and fertilisers have to be bought from the seed producers to grow these seed properly therefore costing extra.
Many farmers in the develloping world are worse off now due to growing GM crops from America due to the cost of buying the seeds and paying for everthing they need to grow them. This rhetoric we hear from America, trying to put the EU on the "moral" spot is completely misguided. The EU gives more in aid to the develloping world than America does. Bush is only trying to look after his agri-business buddies. Also GM foods are not wanted in Europe. There is no market for them and many European governments give grants to organic food growers so we are kinda going for the other end of the spectrum. The US is trying to force something on Europe that is not wanted. No one is stopping other countries from using it, we just wont import it. Also, the biggest problem facing the third world are the agricultural subsidies given to EU and US farmers which make it near impossible for poor farmers to compete.

Quote:Who was the democracy in Saudi Arabia?
I never said that there ever was. You took the statement out of context.

Quote:If the US killed 10,000 but saved 10,000,000 which is better in your mind
Can you name a situation like this that took place? You are purely speculating on very questionable grounds.

Quote:I think the Rolandaians would disagree with your presumptions about the UN. I think the Iraqi's would too.
You mean the half a million children that died under US led sanctions and when Madalene Albright said it was a prise that "we" are willing to pay? America only ever caused Iraqis misery from supporting Saddam, to giving him weapons to kill his own people, to going to war twice against them and imposing sanctions that killed 500,000 children. I'm not even sure if Saddam could have done something like that.

Quote:The UN is anti-american and anti-semetic, please.

Why is it anti-american and anti-semetic? Because it tries to impose international law on all of its member states that breaks them?

Quote:Who created the UN?
The winners of WWII.

Quote:Who funds it more than any other?
As I stated before the US owes the UN money and the US does not fund it anymore than anyone else.

Quote:Without the US you would not have your freedom or your UN.
And what information are you basing this on? My freedom did not come from ther the UN or the US.

Quote:Why do you bite the hand that feeds you. You critisize, but you sure know who to call when its time to spill blood.
Sorry, the US doesnt feed me. People dont want the US to spill blood. People want the US to abide by international law and use its power as a force for good and to try to resolve difficulties diplomatically firstly and if really needed militarily instead of jumping into war at the first oppertunity.

Quote:The UN is a joke. I wish the US would get out.
The UN is the sum of all its member states and last time I checked the US is a member. Also the US has done more to undermine the UN than any other country by vetoing countless resolutions and not abiding by international law or the UN charter, something the US was part of drawing up.

Quote:In fact did you know the US is the only self sufficient country in the world, we could survive without the rest of the world.
Somehow I dont think this is true. The US relies massively on the import export market and without it the US would just be another third world country. You have a very juvinile way of looking at things. If the US could not export the economy would collapse and if it did not import it would fall short of raw materials and the economy would collapse. The US needs the rest of the world more than the world needs the US especially for energy resourses. Everything that can be gotten from the US can be gotten from elsewhere.

Quote:The question is, could the UN or the rest of the world survive without us.
As I said above, everything that can be gotten from the US can aquired from elsewhere.

Quote:I think not, you'd all be speaking German or Russian without the US
Hmm, more speculation. I think it would be more correct to say that without Russia we'd all be speaking German as the Russians did more to defeat the Nazis than anyone else but the again that would also be pure speculation.

Quote:Over 100,000,000 deaths accounted to communism all over the world. You cry because maybe the US killed a handfull fighting communism. Get a clue.
I dont think what was bng done in South America was fighting Communism (although that was the excuse given). What about bombing south Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Timor? Comparing youselves to the Soviet Union or China isnt very flattering. Try to bring your comparisons up to first world level.

I think my friend it is you that needs to get a clue. Your whole post was based on half truths, lies and pure speculation.
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[mmd10]

mmd10
Are you from Northern Ireland or Ireland?


bootle
If a party is elected by the majority of the voting public, regardless of political ideologies, it is a democratically elected government. Just because the US may not like the political ideology doesnt mean it should overthrow a democratically elected government and install brutal dictators. Take a look at what the US did to Italy after WWII and throughout South America. Is anyone entitled to assassinate Bush because they dont like what he stands for?


mmd10
Well since it is our blood that spills to free the world, I think we should have a bigger say so in such matters. Do you want a democratic government in Saudi Arabia, I don't. With the brainwashed citizens it would be much worse than it already is.


bootle
Look it up, it is fact. They also vetoed a UNSC resolution calling on all member states to observe international law as well as many other moral and progressive resolutions.


mmd10
International law? These courts wnat to endite our generals and leaders based on thr hatred of the US and you wish us to join this mickey mouse court.


bootle
Did I deny that? Were we even discussing that? You said the UN owed the US when it doesnt


mmd10
How long is the UN gonna last when we finally get feed up with the America bashing? I bet it doesn't last two years. Why does the US pay the largest share?

bootle
The UN are pushing hard for unlimited UN inspections as is the EU by using diplomatic pressure (something you can do when you have a good relationship with a country and have economic power over them) unlike Americas policy of isolation.


mmd10
You've got to be kidding me. N.Korea has openly admitted making nucs since the deal with Clinton, right under the UNs nose. Please don't go there. The UN should be sending arms to the freedom fighters in Iran, not playing the hide and seek game.

bootle
Many farmers in the develloping world are worse off now due to growing GM crops from America due to the cost of buying the seeds and paying for everthing they need to grow them. This rhetoric we hear from America, trying to put the EU on the "moral" spot is completely misguided. The EU gives more in aid to the develloping world than America does. Bush is only trying to look after his agri-business buddies. Also GM foods are not wanted in Europe. There is no market for them and many European governments give grants to organic food growers so we are kinda going for the other end of the spectrum. The US is trying to force something on Europe that is not wanted. No one is stopping other countries from using it, we just wont import it. Also, the biggest problem facing the third world are the agricultural subsidies given to EU and US farmers which make it near impossible for poor farmers to compete.


mmd10
In the meantime, people starve to death in Africa, and go blind in Asia. Because the EU don't like our Franken -foods. Those nations want to buy them, but Europe is more worried about thr farmers than the people starving to death, and going blind. Just as my theory on the mindsets says. The self serving EU and the people suffer. You make me sick.



bootle
Can you name a situation like this that took place? You are purely speculating on very questionable grounds.

mmd10
S.America, where they want to endite some of our leaders for keeping communism out. They don't seem to understand the greater good theory. Name me a communist regime where 100,000s did not die or suffer? So if we killed a few thousand maybe innocents, which is the greater good?


bootle
You mean the half a million children that died under US led sanctions and when Madalene Albright said it was a prise that "we" are willing to pay? America only ever caused Iraqis misery from supporting Saddam, to giving him weapons to kill his own people, to going to war twice against them and imposing sanctions that killed 500,000 children. I'm not even sure if Saddam could have done something like that.


mmd10
Oh it was our sanctions that starved the children? Hmmmm fuckin assholoe, how about oil for food that france and germany and the UN were skimming off the top and getting kickbacks from Saddam buying illegal weapons under the table. Saddam was supposed to be feeding HIS people. It's not the US fault he didn't.

But it is the UN and france and germany's fault they dealt with him illegaly. You have a @#%$ up way of thinking there pal. We are not the UK who holds part of your country pal, you should not compare us to them.

What about Rolanda? the UN didn't need our permission to stop the killing. Why didn't they?

bootle
Why is it anti-american and anti-semetic? Because it tries to impose international law on all of its member states that breaks them?

mmd10
Stick your @#%$ up Anti-American, Anti-Semetic law up your ass. You wouldn't have international law, you would have nazi law or communist law if it weren't for the US. You people are @#%$ clueless, and it was Europe who drew the @#%$ borders that create most of these problems in the world today. Give me a fuckin break. It is UK who creates the problems in your homeland, they drew Pakistan-India, Israel-Palestine etc.. How come the UN does not pressure Jordan to give back some land to palestinians? I want an answer to that one. Does the UN call for Syria to get out of Lebabnon?

bootle
The winners of WWII.


mmd10
You trying to say you Europeans wouldn't be speaking German or Russian. You saying you would have freed yourselves without us help? It was US who setup UN, without us there would be no UN. Get over it. I know it hurts your pride.


bootle
As I stated before the US owes the UN money and the US does not fund it anymore than anyone else.


mmd10
Where do you get your facts there pal, the BBC? You are naive there pal. The US pays more than any other 2 or 3 nations together.

bootle
And what information are you basing this on? My freedom did not come from ther the UN or the US.


mmd10
Yeah I suppose Hitler would have left Ireland alone after he took the UK if we didn't enter the war. You sure are a dreamer.


bootle
Sorry, the US doesnt feed me. People dont want the US to spill blood. People want the US to abide by international law and use its power as a force for good and to try to resolve difficulties diplomatically firstly and if really needed militarily instead of jumping into war at the first oppertunity.


mmd10
Your international law sucks, keep your law to yourself, we operate under our law just fine. Stick your law up your ^#%$^%$ You people remind me of the Clintons, Bush has to clean up all this guys messes and they try and blame him for the messes. Its un @#%$ believable.


bootle
The UN is the sum of all its member states and last time I checked the US is a member. Also the US has done more to undermine the UN than any other country by vetoing countless resolutions and not abiding by international law or the UN charter, something the US was part of drawing up.


mmd10
If the US didn't want the UN to exist it wouldn't. The UN is made up of too many third world countries that don't understand what to do with thr freedom, how to aquire it, or maintain it. Too much hypocritical bs comes from UN, Israel-Palestine is one example.

Like I said the US should pull out of UN, fund it yourselves, free yourselves, keep yourselves free, and free your opressed peoples. That would be fine with me. I wouldn't mind bng an isolationist country, @#%$ the UN. We would survive without them, can they without us? You people act like a bunch of spoiled children.

bootle
Somehow I dont think this is true. The US relies massively on the import export market and without it the US would just be another third world country. You have a very juvinile way of looking at things. If the US could not export the economy would collapse and if it did not import it would fall short of raw materials and the economy would collapse. The US needs the rest of the world more than the world needs the US especially for energy resourses. Everything that can be gotten from the US can be gotten from elsewhere.


mmd10
Wanna bet, we would recover from loss of imports, and actually it would put people back to work. Name one raw material we can't get right here in our own country.
You are a bit misguided there pal.

bootle
As I said above, everything that can be gotten from the US can aquired from elsewhere.

mmd10
Good lets doit then, we shall see who survives. The American people are getting real close to calling for this, you will see. I hope the UN keeps pulling its bullshit with us. You'd better check the facts thr pal, the progressive party in this country has been looking pretty degressive in the past 5 elections since Clinton bacame president. I know your media will have you believe that dems are big majority in this country, but you better take a look at the congress etc.. Past 5 elections. Please keep doing what you are doing UN, I can't wait.


bootle
Hmm, more speculation. I think it would be more correct to say that without Russia we'd all be speaking German as the Russians did more to defeat the Nazis than anyone else but the again that would also be pure speculation.


mmd10
Yeah right, ok. Where do you learn this @#%$ from. Our president let his pal "uncle joe" take Berlin etc.. If the Us doesn't enter war Germany beats Soviets hands down. How much longer do you think UK could have held out? Thats soome kind of kool-aid you drink there pal.


bootle
I dont think what was bng done in South America was fighting Communism (although that was the excuse given). What about bombing south Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Timor? Comparing youselves to the Soviet Union or China isnt very flattering. Try to bring your comparisons up to first world level.

mmd10
Yeah ok now the sandinistas weren't communist huh? You sir a dingdong. Ever heard of Cuba? Vietnam, Cambodia? You mean where the enemy was getting safe haven? As far as Laos, I believe it was Pol-Pot who killed 2 million of his own people. You make me sick mr UN.


bootle
I think my friend it is you that needs to get a clue. Your whole post was based on half truths, lies and pure speculation.

mmd10
Wanna bet, you should seek the truth I don't think your getting it from your liberal progressive media over there.

The UN just like Greenpeace, the NAACP started out with good intentions, but all have turned into socialist political whacko organizations who just want to bash the US period.

How come germanys and france economys are collapsing? Could it be because they are not making all those weapons and selling them to Saddam? It's a joke idiot, so don't comment on it. But who knows maybe there is something to it. Go live in your socialist gutter and stop trying to force your bullshit down our throats. You go ahead and let the government control every aspect of your life. I will watch you collapse, and when you want me to come help you again, I will remember how you treated me the last time I did. Jeez you people can't even stop yourselves from marring the grave sites of our brave soldiers who freed your ass.
@#%$ you mr UN. Does that make things clear enough for you, I gaurentee you the American people do not feel about the UN the way your media propagandas it to. I use the language as emphasis, so don't cry about it, your an adult.

[Bootletronn]

Quote:Are you from Northern Ireland or Ireland?
Ireland

Quote:Well since it is our blood that spills to free the world, I think we should have a bigger say so in such matters.
How is it your blood that frees the world? Americans are the only people that see it this way. You completely ignore all of the examples that I have given of the US overthrowing democracies and deterring domocracy.

Quote:Do you want a democratic government in Saudi Arabia, I don't. With the brainwashed citizens it would be much worse than it already is.
I would like to see democracy in Saudi Arabis and throughout the Middle and the world. Who supports the corrupt brainwashing regime that is in place?

Quote:International law? These courts wnat to endite our generals and leaders based on thr hatred of the US and you wish us to join this mickey mouse court.
I'm not talking about the ICC, I'm talking about the UN charter which the US were a part of drawing up.

Quote:How long is the UN gonna last when we finally get feed up with the America bashing? I bet it doesn't last two years. Why does the US pay the largest share?
When was there America bashing at the UN. Just because the majority of members disagaree with the US's stance on Iraq you think the whole orginisation is anti-American. Where are you getting this informationa that the US pays the largest share? I'll say it once again, the US owes the UN money.

Quote:You've got to be kidding me. N.Korea has openly admitted making nucs since the deal with Clinton, right under the UNs nose. Please don't go there. The UN should be sending arms to the freedom fighters in Iran, not playing the hide and seek game.
Yes, thats North Korea. What has that got to do with the UN? North Korea is not Iran. As for you hairbrained idea about sending arms to "freedom fighters" in Iran, that is the worst possible thing to do. There is a very vibrant democratic movement in Iran which is making progress and should be supported but to send in arms and start a civil war is just plain stupid. Didnt Nixon call the Contras freedom fighters? Could have been another president perhaps. The world is also putting diplomatic pressure to esolve the nuclear issue and it appears to be working. Is your solution to everything war and violence?

Quote:In the meantime, people starve to death in Africa, and go blind in Asia. Because the EU don't like our Franken -foods. Those nations want to buy them, but Europe is more worried about thr farmers than the people starving to death, and going blind. Just as my theory on the mindsets says. The self serving EU and the people suffer. You make me sick.
OK. Read again slowly what I wrote above and tell me how GM crops benifit third world countries. Just because Europe doesnt want these products does not mean that these countries cannot produce it for themselves. Again your statement has no basis in reality. And as I said above, again, the biggest problem for third world farmers are subsidies paid by the EU and US to thr farmers not GM food.

Quote:S.America, where they want to endite some of our leaders for keeping communism out. They don't seem to understand the greater good theory. Name me a communist regime where 100,000s did not die or suffer? So if we killed a few thousand maybe innocents, which is the greater good?
These parties were democratically elected governments. You automatically assume that because they were socialist that they were going to kill they're populations. Of course there was nothing to indicate that such a thing was going to happen. They were democratically elected and if the people didnt like them they could be voted out next time. So in your eyes, placing brutal dictators in power to kill tens of thousands of people and oppress the countries for years instead of having a solialist country that wanted its resourses to bfit its citizens instead of a forgn power?

Quote:Oh it was our sanctions that starved the children? Hmmmm fuckin assholoe, how about oil for food that france and germany and the UN were skimming off the top and getting kickbacks from Saddam buying illegal weapons under the table. Saddam was supposed to be feeding HIS people. It's not the US fault he didn't.
They were sanctions that the US asked for. I'm not here to defend France and Germany but if you think that American companies werent in dodgy dealings during the sanctions you are delusional. Can you give me a link about the UN taking money? Yes Saddam misused the money and that is why most countries wanted the sanctions ended so that people would not starve but the US rejected this. And please dont call me an @#%$, it degrades your credibility and I have not insulted you, so, I would appreciate for you to extend me the same courtesy.

Quote:Stick your @#%$ up Anti-American, Anti-Semetic law up your ass. You wouldn't have international law, you would have nazi law or communist law if it weren't for the US. You people are @#%$ clueless, and it was Europe who drew the @#%$ borders that create most of these problems in the world today. Give me a fuckin break. It is UK who creates the problems in your homeland, they drew Pakistan-India, Israel-Palestine etc.. How come the UN does not pressure Jordan to give back some land to palestinians? I want an answer to that one. Does the UN call for Syria to get out of Lebabnon?
I'm going to ignore the first bit of you post here but I'll wait for you to tell me hoew the UN is anti-American and anti-Semetic. Yes the UK is instrumental in drawing the boarders in the Middle and they did a botch job on it. On the other hand the US took over control of the Middle after WWII and has been instumental in its evolution since then but I agree, the Brits @#%$ it up. As for the Jordan-Palestinian issue, these disputes were dealt with a long time ago. There is no occupation by Jordan and there are many Palestinians living in Jordan. Having said that Jordan has reated Palestinians attrociously in the past which as far as i know has been condemned by the UN. As for Syria and Lebanon, mmm, I dont think that Syria are in the Lebanon. Israel on the other hand occupies the Golan hghts in Syria.

Quote:You trying to say you Europeans wouldn't be speaking German or Russian. You saying you would have freed yourselves without us help? It was US who setup UN, without us there would be no UN. Get over it. I know it hurts your pride.
France, UK, Russia, US and maybe another one or two formed the UN, it wasnt just the US. The US joined both world wars very late. The Nazis would have been defeated with or without the US, it would have taken longer but it would have been done.

Quote:Where do you get your facts there pal, the BBC? You are naive there pal. The US pays more than any other 2 or 3 nations together.
Can you please get me a source?

Quote:Yeah I suppose Hitler would have left Ireland alone after he took the UK if we didn't enter the war. You sure are a dreamer.
Germany were never close to taking Britain even when the US were still waiting for pearl harbour to be bombed to join. Again you base your arguement on pure speculation.

Quote:Your international law sucks, keep your law to yourself, we operate under our law just fine. Stick your law up your ^#%$^%$ You people remind me of the Clintons, Bush has to clean up all this guys messes and they try and blame him for the messes. Its un @#%$ believable. Again I'll tell you. The US were a part of drawing up the UN charter. If you dont likre the laws that were made why did you make them?

Quote:If the US didn't want the UN to exist it wouldn't. The UN is made up of too many third world countries that don't understand what to do with thr freedom, how to aquire it, or maintain it. Too much hypocritical bs comes from UN, Israel-Palestine is one example.
What are you basing that on? The idea of the UN is that every country gets a say and is represented. Are you suggesting that only rich countries should have a say and the poor countries should just lie down and take it? As for the Israel-Palestine I agree. Iraq was forced to comply with UN resolutions whereas Israel and to some extent the PA are not held accountable. This is another double standand on US policy in the UN and the Middle .

Quote:Like I said the US should pull out of UN, fund it yourselves, free yourselves, keep yourselves free, and free your opressed peoples. That would be fine with me. I wouldn't mind bng an isolationist country, @#%$ the UN. We would survive without them, can they without us? You people act like a bunch of spoiled children.
You want to pull out because America doesnt always get its way? I know what sounds more childish to me.

Quote:Wanna bet, we would recover from loss of imports, and actually it would put people back to work. Name one raw material we can't get right here in our own country.
Who are you going to sell all of these products to? There isnt a big enough market in the US to make up the difference in lost revenue from loss of exports. You also dont have the energy resourses. America would become a third world country. America depends on the world market more than most. If you think about what you have said it makes no sence. Even ask the most conservative person with some idea of economics and they will tell you that you are mad.

Quote:Good lets doit then, we shall see who survives. The American people are getting real close to calling for this, you will see. I hope the UN keeps pulling its bullshit with us. You'd better check the facts thr pal, the progressive party in this country has been looking pretty degressive in the past 5 elections since Clinton bacame president. I know your media will have you believe that dems are big majority in this country, but you better take a look at the congress etc.. Past 5 elections. Please keep doing what you are doing UN, I can't wait.
Somehow I dont think many people are looking to pull out of the world market as most will have some idea of what it would do to the country. I dont really care much for the Dems on that point. No one is doing anything at the UN to America, its the people talking about America that you are hearing, not the UN.

Quote:Yeah right, ok. Where do you learn this @#%$ from. Our president let his pal "uncle joe" take Berlin etc.. If the Us doesn't enter war Germany beats Soviets hands down. How much longer do you think UK could have held out? Thats soome kind of kool-aid you drink there pal.
OK, open Google and find out how many Germans were killed by Russia and how many were killed by America. Also, the Russians and the allies were fighting on different fronts so the point about Germany beating Russia is moot. They did it on thr own. The Russians took much of the burden off the allies also which led to Allied advances in western Europe. I think you'll be surprised. The UK was pretty safe from invasion even before America joined tha war except from some bombing but not invasion.

Quote:Yeah ok now the sandinistas weren't communist huh? You sir a dingdong. Ever heard of Cuba? Vietnam, Cambodia? You mean where the enemy was getting safe haven? As far as Laos, I believe it was Pol-Pot who killed 2 million of his own people. You make me sick mr UN.
Safe haven? America dropped Napalm, agent orange and other such nicities on millions of innocent civilians all over north and south Vietnam and cambodia and firebombed villages. But of course they were all communists. As for Cuba, America has an illegal embargo on Cuba which keeps the country in poverty. What has Cuba ever done to the US, besides the Cuban Missile Crisis, while the US has invaded Cuba countless times for over a hundred years.

Quote:Wanna bet, you should seek the truth I don't think your getting it from your liberal progressive media over there.
So now history books are propaganda. Please point out all inaccuracies if you so wish.

Quote:The UN just like Greenpeace, the NAACP started out with good intentions, but all have turned into socialist political whacko organizations who just want to bash the US period.
Please give me an example of the UN bashing the US. The UN has been far more critical of other countries than of the US who have done a lot less.

Quote:Go live in your socialist gutter and stop trying to force your bullshit down our throats.
Along with all the other Communists in Europe I suppose.

Quote:You go ahead and let the government control every aspect of your life.
We're not the ones with the patriot act buddy.

Quote:Jeez you people can't even stop yourselves from marring the grave sites of our brave soldiers who freed your ass.
When did I disrespect the soldiers that died fighting the Nazis? I have great respect for these people and are thankful for thr contribution but to say American soldiers single handedly "saved" Europe is completely inaccurate.

Quote:@#%$ you mr UN.
Is there really any need for this? As I said before, I didnt insult you so I expect the same.

[SuffolkMD]

Gentlemen,

Can we please make the posts shorter and limited to one topic at a time? Making laundry lists of things detracts from the important issues bng discussed, so lets try to keep it short, huh?

Bootletron,

a quick look at Compton's Encyclopedia 1999 shows that the United States pays one fourth of the budget of the UN. Russia pays 10.2%, the UK, 4.86%, and some states pay less than 1/2 of one percent. 'nuff said.

You must agree that the UN is an un-democratic organization. You want to abide by "International Law"? What is this "International Law"? We Americans feel that government governs only with the consent of the governed. We vote to elect representatives to the governing bodies such as the legislature and the executive. These laws become laws based on the majority vote.

In the UN, if all the countries in the General Assembly voted on a law, and the US was the only one who was against it, it would become "International law" wouldn't it??? But does this law have any jurisdiction over me, since I have not elected any representatives to this assembly??? I did not give my consent to be ruled by these "member states". So it is a completely undemocratic organization, and one which is against the freedoms that we Americans espouse.

Why did we form it? Well, you know that it was formed to reorganize the world, to avoid another world war. But it has taken on a life of its own, and is now trying to be the world government. That is why we have been opposed to many of the resolutions that have been proposed.

SuffolkMD


________
Luca Cordero Di Montezemolo (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Luca_Cordero_di_Montezemolo)

[mmd10]

bootle
Ireland

mmd10
You probably love the Kennedys then huh. I personally can't stand them for the way I am stereotyped because of them. Yes I'm Irish, American first though.

bootle
How is it your blood that frees the world? Americans are the only people that see it this way. You completely ignore all of the examples that I have given of the US overthrowing democracies and deterring domocracy.

mmd10
Whatever America's interest are, should interest you. You know since our blood has provided freedom to the world.

bootle
I would like to see democracy in Saudi Arabis and throughout the Middle and the world. Who supports the corrupt brainwashing regime that is in place?


mmd10
I would like us to get Iraqi oil flowing full steam ahead and leave the Saudis to thr demise of thr own creation. Same goes for france and germany.

bootle
I'm not talking about the ICC, I'm talking about the UN charter which the US were a part of drawing up.

mmd10
Give me some more info on the subject?

bootle
When was there America bashing at the UN. Just because the majority of members disagaree with the US's stance on Iraq you think the whole orginisation is anti-American. Where are you getting this informationa that the US pays the largest share? I'll say it once again, the US owes the UN money.


mmd10
When? You can't be serious? How about the human rights council, whom the US was kicked off and the Sudan(where there exist slavery this very day) added and Col, Khadffi's Libya was elected to head it. How about Iran and Iraq chairing a disarmenment committee? Please. How about all the UN resolutions against Israel, how come Jordan doesn't have to give up some of the 70% of Palestinian land they own. Thats called hypocrisy.

bootle
Yes, thats North Korea. What has that got to do with the UN? North Korea is not Iran. As for you hairbrained idea about sending arms to "freedom fighters" in Iran, that is the worst possible thing to do. There is a very vibrant democratic movement in Iran which is making progress and should be supported but to send in arms and start a civil war is just plain stupid. Didnt Nixon call the Contras freedom fighters? Could have been another president perhaps. The world is also putting diplomatic pressure to esolve the nuclear issue and it appears to be working. Is your solution to everything war and violence?

mmd10
What does Iran have to do with N.Korea you ask? Well for starters the UN had inspectors in N.Korea there the whole time N.Korea was admittingly secretly making the nucs. Thats what it has to do with it. The UN needs a smoking city before it will act. I don't wanna play hide and seek for another 12 years. The Contras may have been brutal, but I gaurentee you communism is much much more Brutal, and Sandinistas were communist.


bootle
OK. Read again slowly what I wrote above and tell me how GM crops benifit third world countries. Just because Europe doesnt want these products does not mean that these countries cannot produce it for themselves. Again your statement has no basis in reality. And as I said above, again, the biggest problem for third world farmers are subsidies paid by the EU and US to thr farmers not GM food.


mmd10
Those countries want the GM foods, but are scarred of reprecussions from EU, who threaten with them.

bootle
These parties were democratically elected governments. You automatically assume that because they were socialist that they were going to kill they're populations. Of course there was nothing to indicate that such a thing was going to happen. They were democratically elected and if the people didnt like them they could be voted out next time. So in your eyes, placing brutal dictators in power to kill tens of thousands of people and oppress the countries for years instead of having a solialist country that wanted its resourses to bfit its citizens instead of a forgn power?


mmd10
Yeah I suppose Saddam was democratically elected, he recieved 99% of the vote from the 99% who voted.
It's amazing how much them people loved Saddam.


bootle
They were sanctions that the US asked for. I'm not here to defend France and Germany but if you think that American companies werent in dodgy dealings during the sanctions you are delusional. Can you give me a link about the UN taking money? Yes Saddam misused the money and that is why most countries wanted the sanctions ended so that people would not starve but the US rejected this. And please dont call me an @#%$, it degrades your credibility and I have not insulted you, so, I would appreciate for you to extend me the same courtesy.

mmd10
Go search for yourself, I'm not gonna do your homework for you. You might want to try "oil for food". Saddam didn't buy the food or when he did, he warehoused it for his like-minds only while the people starved. But french and german defense companies sure made out. Why do you think they opposed the war and stalled. They had to do some Enron type shreading dingdong.

bootle
I'm going to ignore the first bit of you post here but I'll wait for you to tell me hoew the UN is anti-American and anti-Semetic. Yes the UK is instrumental in drawing the boarders in the Middle and they did a botch job on it. On the other hand the US took over control of the Middle after WWII and has been instumental in its evolution since then but I agree, the Brits @#%$ it up. As for the Jordan-Palestinian issue, these disputes were dealt with a long time ago. There is no occupation by Jordan and there are many Palestinians living in Jordan. Having said that Jordan has reated Palestinians attrociously in the past which as far as i know has been condemned by the UN. As for Syria and Lebanon, mmm, I dont think that Syria are in the Lebanon. Israel on the other hand occupies the Golan hghts in Syria.

mmd10
70% of thr population and land is Palestinian, why not offer soem up so Israel came keep thr security zones? That would make sense to me.


bootle
France, UK, Russia, US and maybe another one or two formed the UN, it wasnt just the US. The US joined both world wars very late. The Nazis would have been defeated with or without the US, it would have taken longer but it would have been done.


mmd10
I seriously doubt the russians would have defeated the nazis. Have you ever taken a look at the research and devolopment the nazis had? The russians were the first to get into space with nazi missle technology, we developed the atomic bomb with german scientist smuggled out of germany. Your drinking Soviet kool-aid if you think the russians would have beaten back germany, ecspecially after the UK would have crumbled without the help from the US. Your unreal and should really do some learning about germany in WWII. Hitler made so many stupid mistakes, that he could have won the war against the allies if he wasn't such an idiot. His generals used to call him coporal hitler.


bootle
Can you please get me a source?

mmd10
I seek the truth through many sources, if your dependant on the media, well good luck to ya.
Again I am not gonna do your homework for you. You can take me at my word or not, I don't care. The truth shall set ye free, go find it.

bootle
Germany were never close to taking Britain even when the US were still waiting for pearl harbour to be bombed to join. Again you base your arguement on pure speculation.


mmd10
Hitler was a fool and could have taken England, he wanted air superiority first. he was advised to invade and didn't listen. Your crazy if you think the Brits could have held on much longer.


bootle
Again I'll tell you. The US were a part of drawing up the UN charter. If you dont likre the laws that were made why did you make them?


mmd10
Those UN charters were drawn up by soviet loving democrats. Why did the Soviets get so many seats, how come we the US didn't get a seat for each of our states. You could do a little searching on democratic policy and how it benefited communism for 50 years. I know Truman's containment policy right. What did it contain?


bootle
What are you basing that on? The idea of the UN is that every country gets a say and is represented. Are you suggesting that only rich countries should have a say and the poor countries should just lie down and take it? As for the Israel-Palestine I agree. Iraq was forced to comply with UN resolutions whereas Israel and to some extent the PA are not held accountable. This is another double standand on US policy in the UN and the Middle .

mmd10
The UN looses all credibilty when it doesn't act on its threats and resolutions. Why didn't they act on them with Saddam for twelve years. Those were conditions set so we wouldn't invade his ass in the first Gulf War. I wonder if Japan didn't play along with thier peace treaty after WWII, if we would have allowed them to play games. GWII can really be considered GWI, he did not meet his surrender agreements and therefore the war continues.

bootle
You want to pull out because America doesnt always get its way? I know what sounds more childish to me.

mmd10
I want to pull out because the UN does not use common sense. I want to pull out because we could spend that money on healthcare or something in OUR country. The bible teaches me that charity starts in the home. I would love to leave the UN to the makings of its own demise. We'll see when it happens, thr are people that don't vote in this country who are gonna be in the future because of the UN. Who the hell is the UN to tell us we should get rid of our gun laws. Who the hell do they think they are, telling us how we should run our country, ecspecially since we are now seng thr socialist governments failing and going broke. I don't think we need any advice from them. You will see, it's all coming. The democratic party in this country is on the verge of extinction. Just watch it unfold over next few elections.

bootle
Who are you going to sell all of these products to? There isnt a big enough market in the US to make up the difference in lost revenue from loss of exports. You also dont have the energy resourses. America would become a third world country. America depends on the world market more than most. If you think about what you have said it makes no sence. Even ask the most conservative person with some idea of economics and they will tell you that you are mad.

mmd10
Might be rough at first, but you can bet your ass this country would recover and prosper making you even more jealous of us.


bootle
Somehow I dont think many people are looking to pull out of the world market as most will have some idea of what it would do to the country. I dont really care much for the Dems on that point. No one is doing anything at the UN to America, its the people talking about America that you are hearing, not the UN.

mmd10
Yeah people like Koffi, I heard him blame the UN bombing last week on the US, what the @#%$ is that. It was even reported the US told him the UN needs better security, and they have the blue helmets to provide thr own while we search for terrorist. Spoiled children, because demoncrats in this country spoiled them. Sorry pal party is over for spoiling the child.


bootle
OK, open Google and find out how many Germans were killed by Russia and how many were killed by America. Also, the Russians and the allies were fighting on different fronts so the point about Germany beating Russia is moot. They did it on thr own. The Russians took much of the burden off the allies also which led to Allied advances in western Europe. I think you'll be surprised. The UK was pretty safe from invasion even before America joined tha war except from some bombing but not invasion

mmd10
You seem to forget that the Soviets were germans allies before the nazis turned on Stalin. If hitler wasn't a corporal he would have defeated the UK before he turned on the Soviets. You seem to miss the point. If Hitler didn't halt his programs on the jet-plane in 37 or 38 he would have had them by d-day, if he would have brought up the panzers and luftwaffe like the generals wanted too, d-day might have turned out different. This guy was a narcisistic idiot like Clinton who didn't listen to anyone but himself.


bootle
Safe haven? America dropped Napalm, agent orange and other such nicities on millions of innocent civilians all over north and south Vietnam and cambodia and firebombed villages. But of course they were all communists. As for Cuba, America has an illegal embargo on Cuba which keeps the country in poverty. What has Cuba ever done to the US, besides the Cuban Missile Crisis, while the US has invaded Cuba countless times for over a hundred years.

mmd10
It was kinda hard to tell the innocents from the VC when they were setting bombs under thr own babies to kill an unsuspecting American who could never believe they would do such a thing. War is hell, civilians die. In the end more died on that continent just from Pol-Pot alone after the US left. DOn't you get it man.

bootle
So now history books are propaganda. Please point out all inaccuracies if you so wish.

mmd10
Did you know that Japan doesn't teach its students about the horrors they brought upon the world. Yeah, I never read a french history book, but I bet they try and make themselves look brave. The US even let them march into france like they were the one who conquered it back. No different than how we let the Soviets get to Berlin first as we sat back. I personally wish we would have listened to Patten and went straight to Moscow. We could have saved 100,000,000 deaths that communism has caused. you still don't get it. Are you some sort of Irish commie?

bootle
Please give me an example of the UN bashing the US. The UN has been far more critical of other countries than of the US who have done a lot less.

mmd10
I have given plenty of examples.

bootle
Along with all the other Communists in Europe I suppose

mmd10
Communist or socialist, there is not much different, each one controls your life and does your thinking for you, soemhow the people seem to suffer in the end. Capitalism starts with serving the people, it's why our Founding Fathers chose it.


bootle
We're not the ones with the patriot act buddy.

mmd10
You are believng all the liberal media hype about the patriot act, go look up the old rules and then compare the new rules. The patriot act is just an update of olllld rules. You put too much faith in your media pal.
We wouldn't need a patriot act if the socialist libbys didn't instill political correctness in our society. We need common senseness not political correctness.


bootle
When did I disrespect the soldiers that died fighting the Nazis? I have great respect for these people and are thankful for thr contribution but to say American soldiers single handedly "saved" Europe is completely inaccurate.

mmd10
American soldiers did save Europe, the American democrats gave half to Stalin. How do you feel about President Reagan? you know the guy who was like President George W Bush. One might say W is like Reagan. You can thank us in the future for spilling blood putting an end to terrorism. Blame the Brits for your problems in Ireland, don't think we are anything like them just because an narcisistic kennedy from this country tells you so. You need to look at the big picture and not just zoom in on part of a picture.
I try and explain the big picture to you and you just wanna zoom in on the litte part of the screen that you watch with blinders on. Take the blinders off dummy and look at the big picture, it will open your eyes.

bootle
Is there really any need for this? As I said before, I didnt insult you so I expect the same.

mmd10
Sorry man, but thats how pissed I get talking to a brain washed by european liberla media people. We have the same thing here in our country. They are called democrats, and the media seems to have thr same mindset. You need to seek the truth and apply common sense while seeking. Good luck to ya.

Go look this one up, Cuchulainin. That might describe me very well to you. Only I smash the liberla mindset that is ruining this world and country. Stop drinking the kool-aid, your Irish for crying out load, put down the kool-aid and have a beer.

Good-day

mmd10

[WantaghDem]

"a quick look at Compton's Encyclopedia 1999 shows that the United States pays one fourth of the budget of the UN. .... 'nuff said."

No, since this doesn't reveal the truth. It only says what SHOULD be.

Bootletronn was right. We don't pay our fair share; we withhold money when we need to play the childish American not getting her way.

Jesse Helms was the master of this, though certainly not the only one.
________
Vaporgenie Vaporizer (http://www.vaporshop.com/vaporgenie-vaporizer.html)

[MisterEd]

Quote:Hint: If you're going to lie about what others write to prove a point, make sure the ACTUAL TEXT is not directly above your distorted lie.

If you would kindly make the effort to read the post ABOVE the one that you mention, you will see that I used the ACTUAL TEXT. I always use copy/paste when quoting people, so it would be impossible to get a quote wrong.

Hint: If you're going to accuse someone of something, make sure you have ALL the facts, in this case read the whole thread instead of just seng who made the last post and attack that poster and his posts no matter what the content is.

Now apologise (or apologize, you can choose)
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[Europeanamn]

A persistent dis-array of Iraq + the slow bleeding of the mighty US troops + the loss of Billions of US citzenry Tax payers dollars..has finally gotten to your top man!

HE IS NOW BEGGING THE UN FOR HELP....PERSONALLY! No more fooling around with powell or condelleza rice...bush is begging himself!

I'll steal a line from one of your old actors...now that the truth of your failure in Iraq is staring you in the face...YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!

[Bootletronn]

Quote:Whatever America's interest are, should interest you. You know since our blood has provided freedom to the world.
I''m not going through this again.

Quote:I would like us to get Iraqi oil flowing full steam ahead and leave the Saudis to thr demise of thr own creation. Same goes for france and germany.
I think a part of this war was due to wanting to reduce dependancy on Saudi oil. Why are France and Germany going to demise?

Quote:Give me some more info on the subject?
Find out yourself about the ICC, I'm not your teacher. The UN charter is the rules which all member states are supposed to abide by and was signed up to and part written by America.

Quote:When? You can't be serious? How about the human rights council, whom the US was kicked off and the Sudan(where there exist slavery this very day) added and Col, Khadffi's Libya was elected to head it. How about Iran and Iraq chairing a disarmenment committee? Please. How about all the UN resolutions against Israel, how come Jordan doesn't have to give up some of the 70% of Palestinian land they own. Thats called hypocrisy.
Did I ever say the UN is perfect? I agree with the statements you made about Libya and Iraq. The UN needs a massive overhaul including the abolition of the veto in the security council and should be a majority vote. As for Jordan, Israel and the Palestinians. The Palestinians wewre driven from thr lands and now only have very limited control of 22% of the land they inhabited before the creation of the state of israel. Jordan also didnt annex the Palestinians land and does not hold land illegally as Isarel does. Does that answer you question?

Quote:What does Iran have to do with N.Korea you ask? Well for starters the UN had inspectors in N.Korea there the whole time N.Korea was admittingly secretly making the nucs. Thats what it has to do with it.
They are different countries. Do you think every situation is the same?
Quote:The UN needs a smoking city before it will act. I don't wanna play hide and seek for another 12 years. The Contras may have been brutal, but I gaurentee you communism is much much more Brutal, and Sandinistas were communist.
There is massive diplomatic pressure on Iran by the EU and the UN to allow unlimited inspections and it seems to be working. The US is just beating its chest and not bng constructive in this matter. As for the Communists, these parties were elected democratically in South America and could have been voted out in the next election. You seem to think that any solialist government is like China or the Soviet Union when they are not. I suppose you think Sweden is an evil communist country?

Quote:Those countries want the GM foods, but are scarred of reprecussions from EU, who threaten with them.
Most countries have not said that they want them or not. Read what I said about the problems and tell me they'd be better off with GM food. Explain to me why it will benifit poor farmers more than dropping subsidies on EU and US produce?

Quote:Yeah I suppose Saddam was democratically elected, he recieved 99% of the vote from the 99% who voted.
No they were fairly elected by the popular majority of the vote. This is what is called democracy. Saddam was the only candidate in Iraqs elections.

Quote:Go search for yourself, I'm not gonna do your homework for you. You might want to try "oil for food". Saddam didn't buy the food or when he did, he warehoused it for his like-minds only while the people starved. But french and german defense companies sure made out. Why do you think they opposed the war and stalled. They had to do some Enron type shreading dingdong.
As I said, American companies were in on it too. You cant blacklist the French and Germans when the US were at it too. I could speculate for days why America started the war for its own commercial gain as you are doing with France and Germany but I wont because it is purely speculation.

Quote:70% of thr population and land is Palestinian, why not offer soem up so Israel came keep thr security zones? That would make sense to me.
Firstly, Before the creation of Israel there was Jordan and there was Palestine. Jordan didnt take any of Palestine while israel took 78% of it and called it Israel. Why should the people of Palestine leave thr land that they have inhabited for centuries to give it to the country that took 78% of thr land and forced millions out of thr homes and off thr land. All they are asking for is the 22% that they have left which Israel seems keen to annex also. Israel is also doing this in contravention of international law.

Quote:I seriously doubt the russians would have defeated the nazis. Have you ever taken a look at the research and devolopment the nazis had? The russians were the first to get into space with nazi missle technology, we developed the atomic bomb with german scientist smuggled out of germany. Your drinking Soviet kool-aid if you think the russians would have beaten back germany, ecspecially after the UK would have crumbled without the help from the US. Your unreal and should really do some learning about germany in WWII. Hitler made so many stupid mistakes, that he could have won the war against the allies if he wasn't such an idiot. His generals used to call him coporal hitler.
I think it is you that needs a history lesson. Without the Russians the war would have been completely different. If the Nazis didnt waste a lot of resources and men in trying to invade Russia t he outcome of the war could have been very different, even with US participation. The UK also went through its worst time befre the US even joined the war. Again we are speculating.

Quote:I seek the truth through many sources, if your dependant on the media, well good luck to ya.
I wont take your word for it if you dont mind. My confidence in you knowledge is quite small considering you think that America single handedly won both world wars and created the UN all by itself etc.

Hitler was a fool and could have taken England, he wanted air superiority first. he was advised to invade and didn't listen. Your crazy if you think the Brits could have held on much longer.
The Brits were only attacked from the air as a land invasion was very difficult due to the English channel. I'll say it again, the Brits had fended off nazi invasion before the US even joined the war. Again Speculation.

Quote:Those UN charters were drawn up by soviet loving democrats. Why did the Soviets get so many seats, how come we the US didn't get a seat for each of our states. You could do a little searching on democratic policy and how it benefited communism for 50 years. I know Truman's containment policy right. What did it contain?
OK, your response is Soviet loving democrats? Very telling of your mind. Let me guess "liberal=evil communist". Why should the US get a seat for each of its states? Should the Soviet Union gotten a seat for all of thr states? The UN is for countries not provinces of countries. Do you have any semblance of rationality?

Quote:The UN looses all credibilty when it doesn't act on its threats and resolutions.
It also looses credibility when it doesnt enforece resolutions against other countries that have broken a massive amount of resolutions, this case bng Israel and when its largest member vetos countless resolutions while every other countries voted for it. It also looses credibility when its largest member breaks international law.

Quote:Who the hell is the UN to tell us we should get rid of our gun laws. Who the hell do they think they are, telling us how we should run our country, ecspecially since we are now seng thr socialist governments failing and going broke. I don't think we need any advice from them. You will see, it's all coming.
The UN never asked for America to get rid of its gun laws or how to run your country. The UN is for international disputes. Which socialist governments have gone broke? I'm begining to think that you do not have much of an idea what you are on about, especially when it comes to the UN, politics and the world around you.

Quote:Might be rough at first, but you can bet your ass this country would recover and prosper making you even more jealous of us.
America would die without international trade. Ask anyone, preferably someone with some idea of economics. Please stop with this jealousy thing, you making a fool out of yourself.

Quote:Yeah people like Koffi, I heard him blame the UN bombing last week on the US, what the @#%$ is that. It was even reported the US told him the UN needs better security, and they have the blue helmets to provide thr own while we search for terrorist
The UN is there mainly for humanitarian purposes and does not want soldiers in there. The US are in charge of security in the country. Koffi Annan didnt say it was Americas fault he said security could have been better. I didnt hear him say America was responsible for the bombing.

Quote:It was kinda hard to tell the innocents from the VC when they were setting bombs under thr own babies to kill an unsuspecting American who could never believe they would do such a thing. War is hell, civilians die. In the end more died on that continent just from Pol-Pot alone after the US left. DOn't you get it man.
They didnt even try to tell the difference. The napalmed and fire bombed whole villages without decrimination. America was the most instrumental factor for Pol-Pot coming to power. Another nice side affect of Americas involvement in Asia.

Quote:Did you know that Japan doesn't teach its students about the horrors they brought upon the world. Yeah, I never read a french history book, but I bet they try and make themselves look brave.
American history also doesnt mention the democracies it has overthrown and the brutal dictators in put in place. It doesnt say about the funding of terrorists around the world and the millions of people who died as a direct of indirect result of American adventurism.

Quote:I have given plenty of examples.
No you havent. You havent given one credible example.

Quote:Communist or socialist, there is not much different, each one controls your life and does your thinking for you, soemhow the people seem to suffer in the end. Capitalism starts with serving the people, it's why our Founding Fathers chose it.
Capitalism is about serving industry. It is kid of like socialism but for industry and corporations. Socialism is about giving free healthcare, free education and other social servises. Look at the standards of living in Sweden compared to the US and I think you will be very surprised at what you'll find.

Quote:American soldiers did save Europe
American soldiers helped.
Quote:You can thank us in the future for spilling blood putting an end to terrorism.
Terrorism always existed and always will. We dont let terrorism dictate our lives like American do and we dont live in constant fear of commies and terrorists. I cant belive the amount of scaremongering I see from the US.

Quote:Blame the Brits for your problems in Ireland, don't think we are anything like them just because an narcisistic kennedy from this country tells you so.
I do blame the Brits and Americans had nothing to do with Ireland bng freed as you seem to think.

Quote:Sorry man, but thats how pissed I get talking to a brain washed by european liberla media people.
Please stop with this rubbish. I have debated with you and you have ranted half truths, speculation and complete rubbish. Refute my points with facts not by calling me a commie or some such crap.

[MisterEd]

Bootletronn, you shouldn't waste your time on the likes of mmd10. Everything in his posts show that his knowledge on socialism, Europe and World War II is based on prejudice alone. He chooses to see his dreams as reality and he gets upset when you blow his bubble using facts.

I get the distinct impression that he actually believes that everything good that happened during the 20th century was because of the US. There is nothing wrong with bng proud of what your country has achieved, but you should really take of the blinders once in a while.

(Just for the record, I noticed he sometimes has difficulty using "your" and "you're". I don't have a problem with that, it's just seems like I have seen that before. Probably just a coincidence)
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Stewing (http://www.cooking-chef.com/stewing/)

[Kane]

Who else had a problem with "your" and "you're"? Who do you think mmd10 is? Just curious.

And, by the way are you proud of your country? Which one was it again?

[mmd10]

kane
Who else had a problem with "your" and "you're"? Who do you think mmd10 is? Just curious.

mmd10
Nobody you've ever seen before. Go look up Cuchulainin, I am the modern day version, only I hound the libbys 100 at a time.

kane
And, by the way are you proud of your country? Which one was it again?

mmd10
You know the one, the greatest county the world has ever had and/or will ever have.
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[Kane]

I was wondering who Mr. Ed thinks you are. I personally don't care ther way, but he was implying something with his last post and I was wondering what he meant.

Also, I was asking Mr. Ed about his country of origin. If you read the whole thread you'll see we have a running dialogue about this. An antagonistic one.

[MisterEd]

Quote:Who else had a problem with "your" and "you're"? Who do you think mmd10 is? Just curious.

I think mmd10 is mmd10. Wantaghdem once pointed out that acelaw has difficulty with the difference between your and you're and I remember things like that (bng the huge acelaw fan that I am. He has a great standup routine)

When I read that mmd10-post, I noticed him doing it too once or twice. But like I said, probably just a coincidence. Perhaps it is just a conservative thing.

Quote:And, by the way are you proud of your country? Which one was it again?

Actually this discussion is going on in another thread. And in this other thread I believe I have answered that question 3 or 4 times now. In THIS thread I am still waiting for your apology for wrongly accusing me of misquoting people. (see 7 posts higher)
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[Kane]

You're right, I'm wrong. I apologize.
God bless (if you believe)
If not, may the force be with you.

[europeanman]

....appropriately put...and get this..he's American!

The man lives in France and has been exposed to civility..like I told you!

entertainment.msn.com/new...ews=132811

[mmd10]

Please show me Mr. Ed where I misused your and you're?
WD is a terminal @#%$ liar, and if you believe anything he says then you have a horse's brain.

I can gaurantee ya taking horse I yam what I yam and thats all that I yam. I am not an animal I am mmd10.
I'd bet ya I'm much funnier than anyone you ever met in here before, in a non racist, non bigoted, non anti-sem way of course.

I'd bet that @#%$ idiot WD has multiple personalities though. That is the way he keeps his ego in place. They all agree on how smart and clever he is. Trouble is all his personalties are liars. It's a very strange case. I'm still studying him.

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[Bootletronn]

MMD, you can barely hold a semi-coherent debate without resorting to insults and outright fabrications. I wouldnt go accusing anyone of lying or bng stupid when you cant even make a decent point. Edited by: Bootletronn at: 9/4/03 11:24 am

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[Bootletronn]

It appears that the Germans and French are not ready to back to US draft resolution on Iraq.

www.reuters.com/newsArtic...ID=3387911
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[MisterEd]

Quote: seriously doubt the russians would have defeated the nazis. Have you ever taken a look at the research and devolopment the nazis had? The russians were the first to get into space with nazi missle technology, we developed the atomic bomb with german scientist smuggled out of germany. Your drinking Soviet kool-aid if you think the russians would have beaten back germany, ecspecially after the UK would have crumbled without the help from the US. Your unreal and should really do some learning about germany in WWII. Hitler made so many stupid mistakes, that he could have won the war against the allies if he wasn't such an idiot. His generals used to call him coporal hitler.

Since you asked... Please note that I am NOT here to look for spelling errors. It was just about the resemblance to another poster.

Quote:You're right, I'm wrong. I apologize.
God bless (if you believe)
If not, may the force be with you.

I accept your apology. Now, was that so hard?

Quote:It appears that the Germans and French are not ready to back to US draft resolution on Iraq.

Are you surprised? The French may be cowards (although this is prejudiced stereotyping, but, you know, like, whatever dude) but they are not idiots. What this resolution basically comes down to is the French, the Germans and the others doing a lot of the dirty work, with the US still bng in charge and taking credit for everything (since the destruction..... excuse me... liberation of Iraq was still our idea).

So I'm guessing that, unless it is in control, the UN will not help. They have been insulted and ignored and now they are supposed to run after the stick like a good puppy.

IF Bush really went there to help the people of Iraq, then why isn't he letting the UN take control? Because this move would be the best thing that could happen to the people of Iraq right now. Or is his pride/ego/chance to get re-elected more important than the fate of the people of Iraq?
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[europeanman]

Just look at what the US proposes...you give us YOUR people and YOUR money to help our efforts in Iraq. While we (the US) maintain power and control! The recent bombing of the Iraqi Shiites, and the UN building occured only because these groups WERE ASSOCIATED WITH THE US!

Make no mistake about it..those attacks were US attacks. And so any nation associated with the US efforts becomes a target..especially when the Iraqis know the US is still in control. Under a UN control..the chances of continued attack may..and I repeat ..may be less severe.

Stay with me here...what the US want is to reap the benifits of Iraq resources while India/French/German troops are bng killed left and right.

But wait it gets better....because that region is now a disaster..over time with continued UN presence the US will be able to say ..IT'S THR FAULT! The incompetent ..irrelevant UN screws up again. And sure enough ..you Americans will believe it.

But how could this work? Are the UN memebers complete fools? Why would the US try such a bold face strategy?

Because the US is playing this game the way it always does. They will threaten the rest of the weaker nations with economic issues to get them to comply. In short..you don't send your troops ..we won't buy your products.

This is why Chirac is a great leader! Because ..as he did ..before the war..he is again risking his political life ..TO STAND FOR WHAT'S RIGHT AND DECENT!

The US tried to isolate him prior to the war..and lets face it..it was a good strategy. But now we know CHIRAC was correct about the war...now that the world knows there are no WMD!

Really what needs to be done is for the US to be removed entirely from the Iraq situation. Because that is now a situation that will never be solved by just GUNS. The Iraqis do not respect US authority, they see the US as invaders...AND THEY ARE CORRECT!

We constantly hear on a daily basis america's effort to appoint Iraqi leaders and to return control to the Iraqis.
The truth is....full Iraqi control ..NEVER WAS PART OF AMERICA'S SCHEME!

america has no intention to turn that country over to the Iraqis, rather they have every intention to remain a strong influential force between the Iraqis and thr resources. Thats why this process has been dragging on for this long.!

Why did the WSJ report America's displeasure over the Iraqi appointment of thr oil minister? Why were they unhappy that thr groomed token man was never apponted...and I wonder how much contention that caused ..how long did that cause the process to be bogged down? That is just a small instance of whats happening in that country...Iraqis resist ..not because of Saddam Hussn.

They resist because 3- 5 years from now they don't want to be washing the cars of Americans for a living while they watch as you pimp thr women and enjoy thr land!



story.news.yahoo.com/news...un_iraq_15

[WantaghDem]

Debacle or quagmire? Quagmire or debacle? Hmmm....BOTH.

"Sept. 4, 2003 Salon.com

Let me make sure I've got this right. After bng insulted, belittled and called irrelevant by the swaggering machos in the Bush administration, the United Nations is now supposed to step forward to supply cannon fodder for America's disastrous Iraq occupation -- while the U.S. continues to run the show?

In other words, the rest of the world is to send its troops to get killed so that a U.S. president it fears and despises can take the credit for an invasion it bitterly opposed.

The rest of the world may be crazy, but it ain't stupid.

The Bush administration's humiliating announcement that it wants the U.N. to bail it out officially confers the title of "debacle" upon the grand Cheney-Rove-Wolfowitz adventure. Not even the world-class chutzpah of this administration can conceal the fact that by turning to the despised world body, it is eating a heaping plate of crow. This spectacle may give Bush-bashers from London to Jakarta a happy jolt of schadenfreude, but it does nothing to help Americans who are stuck with the ugly fallout of the Bush team's ill-concved, absurdly overoptimistic attempt to redraw the Middle ."

whole story:
www.salon.com/opinion/fea.../09/04/un/

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[azellyn]

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[azellyn]

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