How to "Solve" the response time problem

[GiveUsABreakNewsday]

This is going to be a unpopular post but Newsday and most "others" bitch about how much money is spent on volunteer fire departments and the return on investment in terms of response time. So here is a solution:

Instead of investing the $$$$$ on rec rooms and gyms, why not spend some money on bunks and living quarters? Require volunteers to sign up for a certain number of duty crews (yes I know everyone does duty crews already) that consist of a crew for the engines as well as ambulance?

The delay in response time is due to not having enough volunteers respond, the time it takes to man a crew and get going, but if you have the people at the fire house already your response time is cut big time.

For those who are going to whine and bitch about it bng a Volunteer service and the argument that as volunteers we can pick and choose when we respond that is a load of shit. Bng a volunteer means you are willing to sacrifice part of your life to help. Doing a few 12 hour stints at the house itself is part of the "job".

Newsday blows

[oldnews]

Many FD's and VAC's are already doing this, some for years now.

[Unregistered martian]

In an ideal system we would have in-house crews. Let's face it though, it would never work in our volunteer system. People are working more and more to make ends meet. They have little free time as it is. To make them take more time away from home is just going to make people quit. People still need time to do some work around the house, see the kids, etc. To mandate that they take even more time away will drive people away. As much as it pains me, I think we have grown beyond a volley system and are in desperate need of a paid system.

[shell answer man]

How about we futher tax the middle class till they can no longer pay thr bills. THen they must make a choice between paying the note on the home,or heating the home in the winter. Look at School District. The average teacher makes well over 75 grand a year. Having a student in the school system there, I can only tell you, it is not worth the money I am bng charged. My daughter had an issue with science, and when she asked the pompus teacher if she can do extra credit work, she was told NO!

Are there abuses, wastefull spending, in the fire service, hell yes. The problem is no one wants to expose the fire districts of what they have been doing. The only one who takes the hit in the paper is the firemen. Who incidently, have no control over spending or purchases.

We all can come up with ideas, comments to solve problems in everything. How about we attack the illegal rental market in the town of . All the undocumented aliens, getting a free ride on the taxpayer. How sad is it, when I am bng stalked by a bill collector for 50 dollars, but the illegal can go into any hospital and ring up thousands onthe arm of the taxpayer . Address the real problems making, or better said forcing Long Island's youth out of this state. It has become rich and poor, with nothing in between.

[TiredOldandFat]

Many FD's and VAC's are already doing this, some for years now.

How do those departments response time compare to departments who do not do this? I ask because if it is working then the idea is valid.

As for driving the people out of the service do you mean the FF's who only show up for the working fires, parties and trips? Maybe it is time to weed out all the jackasses and build a department with volunteers who want to do the work. Maybe recruiting people who WANT to be there will result in a more professional volunteer fire service that can respond faster, cheaper and with more efficiency!

[smithtown 30]

i think this will work out grate for me. I need someplace else besides my car to share with my special someone.

[Unregisteredmonkey]

How about we futher tax the middle class till they can no longer pay thr bills. THen they must make a choice between paying the note on the home,or heating the home in the winter. Look at School District. The average teacher makes well over 75 grand a year. Having a student in the school system there, I can only tell you, it is not worth the money I am bng charged. My daughter had an issue with science, and when she asked the pompus teacher if she can do extra credit work, she was told NO!

You are upset that your daughter wasn't given extra credit to inflate her grade? Her teacher did the right thing. There is no extra credit in the real world. Stop coddling your daughter and let her accept responsibility for her actions. This is the problem with todays kids. They think mommy and daddy will be there to make the world right. College will be a big shock to her if you do not let her fall on her own once in a while. We learn from our mistakes. Parents want to blame everyone but the kids. How is it the teacher's fault?


Are there abuses, wastefull spending, in the fire service, hell yes. The problem is no one wants to expose the fire districts of what they have been doing. The only one who takes the hit in the paper is the firemen. Who incidently, have no control over spending or purchases.

This might be an area where a little education of the public might help. Don't let those that run the distrcts ruin what those that really care about the community are doing. Educate the public about the difference between the district and the department. Let them know what is really going on and maybe the community will support the people that do the real work and expect nothing in return.

[Unregistered55]

Newsday may blow, but when the blow the lid off of scandals like the Sh*# going on in Smithtown with there Chief, then we wonder why the public does not like what they pay in taxes, and what they don't get for it.

[Unregistered555]

Lets Go Paid

[2 cents worth]

I read all of the Newsday articles about drill teams and response times.

Yes, fire districts do spend alot of money on "TOYS" like race trucks and fancy dinners. But, they also provide the community with a service.(might I also add for those not familiar with the volly system,Fire COmmisioners are also completly volunteered, and elected) so, if you dont like the way the money is spent go to a meeting or run against them. Until that you cant say what goes on.

Second, response time will vary greatly on the size and demographics of the coomunity. A town that is only 5 square mile will have a faster response then a town that is 20 square miles. I know that Newsday didn't mention that at all in any of thr articles. Personally, in my town if a truck rolls from one of the sub stations and needs to respond to the other side of town it take the truck 15minutes to make that drive, when you add in the responce time of the reponders to the fire house yeah it can take 20 minutes. But, that has nothing to do with how good or how fast we are. Thats just the way it is.

Lack of volunteers i believe has more to do with the fact that everyone on long island needs to work in order to live here. we pay alot of money already in taxes(ther for schools or for manicipalities) I feel that at some point we will see some sort of a paid system, most likely for the day time when most people are out working. I dont know how we (the tax payers) will be taxed for the new paid systems but, if the communities are unhappy with the service that the volly system provides then they will have to pay more in taxes for the paid system, but with the paid system in place it will afford the current volunteers more time to work and pay more taxes.

Well this is my 2 cents worth of input on this subject so take it for what it is worth.

[Unregistered567]

Why dont they stop activating the same department for the same call over and over again?

Its ridiculous that departments activate for manpower over and over again. Departments reactivate signal 3's over and over for approx 7-10 mins and they STILL have no one. They mutual aid the call (finally) and then what happens? The next department does the same damn thing.

My favorite is when a department mutual aids a call after blowing 3's for 10 mins, then they get another call, and they activate all the signal 3's again. Whats the deal with this?

I propose the if you dont have a crew after 2 mins of activation, your call gets 24'd to the next department. Do away with the signal 3.

[Unregistered78]

Some other places (out of state) have built little studio apartments that they allow college kids to live in for free, but there is an agreement as to how many hours they have to spend there and what percent of calls they have to answer... Around here, if you did that but open to any member, you'd have a lot of 20-somethings who can't afford apartments or whatnot lining up to do it.

[Unregistered78]

Why dont they stop activating the same department for the same call over and over again?

Its ridiculous that departments activate for manpower over and over again. Departments reactivate signal 3's over and over for approx 7-10 mins and they STILL have no one. They mutual aid the call (finally) and then what happens? The next department does the same damn thing.

My favorite is when a department mutual aids a call after blowing 3's for 10 mins, then they get another call, and they activate all the signal 3's again. Whats the deal with this?

I propose the if you dont have a crew after 2 mins of activation, your call gets 24'd to the next department. Do away with the signal 3.

Some departments, the first set of tones are only activated in-house (via overhead) - if no one is in house, or an incomplete crew, then the 3's are blown as general tones... There is one department I can think of that is trying to work a solution to this but FRES isn't exactly easy to navigate and get results from...

[Unregistered567]

Why not activate everyones pagers? why two activations before the members know about the call? It's absurd.

NO MORE 3'S!!

If you dont get a crew in two minutes, send the next department... why is this so difficult?

Why do they keep activating 3's?

Why do they mutual aid one call and activate 3's for another?

[Unregistered423]

unfortunately the types of things happening now in departments like Smithtown only adds fuel to the fire of the demise of the Volunteer system.

[go4it]

Some other places (out of state) have built little studio apartments that they allow college kids to live in for free, but there is an agreement as to how many hours they have to spend there and what percent of calls they have to answer... Around here, if you did that but open to any member, you'd have a lot of 20-somethings who can't afford apartments or whatnot lining up to do it.



With rents like they are, let a Dept/ District buy a house or 2 along the firehouse property. Let some kids who want to move out of mom and dads place move in. I read of a dept in maryland that did it near a college. Bought 3 houses behind the firehouse. They keep it clean. And still have duty crews sleeping in the old live in bunks.

Nice way to get 3-4 rigs out real fast.

[Unregistered55]

yeah that's all we need, buy up some property. Smithtown has property they own down on the water near the bull for parties, kayaking & members
who want to have secret meet ups with the Chief, and yet they can't even get there calls covered.

[open-minded]

Leave the SFD crap off this one, will you?

My proposal for the last few years (and it is an unpopular one) is you activate 3 depts at once. The primary, and the two closest agencies.

Please dont reply by saying insurance would go through the roof, the insurance issue is covered under the mutual aid laws in NYS.

All it takes are the chiefs signing an MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) that covers all alarms. So if CI-Haupp goes out with something on Rte 111 and say Plum St; CI, Brentwood and Exchange get activated. First one on the road takes it in. Sure, some egos will be damaged, but having waited 20 minutes for EMS when my mother collapsed, knowing that another agency was available, i couldnt understand why not bang em out before the old 15 minutes limit.

The idea is to provide a service. Worrying about who is coming into your district to handle your call is not providing a service. Besides, if your not getting out, they are coming into your district anyway. And im sure no EMS Provider is gonna complain about the potential loss of calls, afterall, the true responders are burnt. and i dont blame them, they run a rediculous amount of alarms.

Just my 2 cents.

[go4it]

yeah that's all we need, buy up some property. Smithtown has property they own down on the water near the bull for parties, kayaking & members
who want to have secret meet ups with the Chief, and yet they can't even get there calls covered.

Well, obviously a problem with disbursing funds. Once the priorities are straight, it wont be a bad option.

[GiveUsABreakNewsday]

Nah...your missing it. What is worse is when the department hands out signal 3's for 10 minutes for what the FF's feel is a BS call and then two minutes later a structure fire gets toned out and everyone suddenly shows up.

Selective Volunteerism

[Unregistered254]

Nah...your missing it. What is worse is when the department hands out signal 3's for 10 minutes for what the FF's feel is a BS call and then two minutes later a structure fire gets toned out and everyone suddenly shows up.

Selective Volunteerism

Sorry. Did not volunteer to go to someone's house because they believe they will skip the waiting room if they go by ambulance. Didn't volunteer to take bored people for a night out. Volunteered for emergencies. Not to drive a 7 year old to the hosp after turning her ankle at dance class while mom follows in her car because she thinks an ambulance ride will make her settlement bigger. Many frequet fliers fall under the "cried wolf" syndrome. It may be wrong, but with limited free resources don't dare lecture us on not rushing for BS calls. The community needs education on when it's appropriate to call an ambulance and Chiefs need the ability to tell people "take a cab!"

[Unregisteredddd]

Sorry. Did not volunteer to go to someone's house because they believe they will skip the waiting room if they go by ambulance. Didn't volunteer to take bored people for a night out. Volunteered for emergencies. Not to drive a 7 year old to the hosp after turning her ankle at dance class while mom follows in her car because she thinks an ambulance ride will make her settlement bigger. Many frequet fliers fall under the "cried wolf" syndrome. It may be wrong, but with limited free resources don't dare lecture us on not rushing for BS calls. The community needs education on when it's appropriate to call an ambulance and Chiefs need the ability to tell people "take a cab!"

I agree with you that we need to educate the public about what needs an ambulance. I think you are walking on dangerous ground giving the chiefs or anyone else in EMS the ability to refuse transport. We're going to let some one with a couple hundred hours of training decide what is an emergency? I think this is very dangerous. Can you tell the difference between a gastroenteritis and mesenteric ischemia? Education is the way to go, but we need to educate the public as to what needs an ambulance and we need to start educating providers (I'm not talking about the pathetic joke of a training program we have now).

[Unregistered2345]

I agree with you that we need to educate the public about what needs an ambulance. I think you are walking on dangerous ground giving the chiefs or anyone else in EMS the ability to refuse transport. We're going to let some one with a couple hundred hours of training decide what is an emergency? I think this is very dangerous. Can you tell the difference between a gastroenteritis and mesenteric ischemia? Education is the way to go, but we need to educate the public as to what needs an ambulance and we need to start educating providers (I'm not talking about the pathetic joke of a training program we have now).

Emergency-meaning life and death. You are right about an internal medical issue. But any paramedic should be able to say that a sprained ankle does not warrant emergency transport. Nor does "my back hurts", "my finger is bleeding...." We are abused and wrong as it is, are not running at each 16. Communities need to have public service announcements, ads in papers and talks in churches. It is they who ultimately will suffer when a true emergency occurs.

[Unregisteredcowboy]

Emergency-meaning life and death. You are right about an internal medical issue. But any paramedic should be able to say that a sprained ankle does not warrant emergency transport. Nor does "my back hurts", "my finger is bleeding...." We are abused and wrong as it is, are not running at each 16. Communities need to have public service announcements, ads in papers and talks in churches. It is they who ultimately will suffer when a true emergency occurs.

I hate to say it but you just proved the point that prehospital providers should not be able to refuse calls. Back pain can be dangerous. AAA, ruptured AAA, dissection, pyelonephiritis leading to urosepsis, cauda equina syndrome. I could go on, but you get the point. I say start thrid party billing and be aggressive about it. Those that don't need it will stop calling because they are tired of bng harassed.

[Scoop and run]

I hate to say it but you just proved the point that prehospital providers should not be able to refuse calls. Back pain can be dangerous. AAA, ruptured AAA, dissection, pyelonephiritis leading to urosepsis, cauda equina syndrome. I could go on, but you get the point. I say start thrid party billing and be aggressive about it. Those that don't need it will stop calling because they are tired of bng harassed.

Or just return to scoop and run, no waiting for the few EMT's, the bus rolls, larger pool of peopel willing to ride, quicker turn around for bus, quicker response, the PT gets to the hospital with real medical care sooner - what's the downside? Oh yeah, no pre-hospital care - did anyone notice we not getting that now, so how can this hurt?

[asphinctersayswhat]

Or just return to scoop and run, no waiting for the few EMT's, the bus rolls, larger pool of peopel willing to ride, quicker turn around for bus, quicker response, the PT gets to the hospital with real medical care sooner - what's the downside? Oh yeah, no pre-hospital care - did anyone notice we not getting that now, so how can this hurt?

You would probably get the same level of care this way as the level of care sucks.

[bumpy]

bump