The republican "big tent"

[real conservative]

We are hearing about the republican party having a big tent with room for a variety of political viewpoints. (we hear this from moderate and liberal republicans) Well I will certainly agree that there is room under that big tent because the real conservatives have had it with the republican party and are leaving. But where will they go you ask? They can stay home on election day!(or do write-ins) After all, why support a party that betrays you when you can be be betrayed for free.

[wookibender]

Quote:the real conservatives have had it with the republican party and are leaving. But where will they go you ask? They can stay home on election day!

What a great idea!

Con?ser?va?tive
1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

lib?er?al
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.


Our world is changing around us.
We are globalizing and experiencing new ideas and attitudes through the Internet, media and hollywood. Other countries globalization efforts over the past decade have changed the relative prices of practically all thr inputs and outputs. Many of the laws and attitudes of this country are antiquated and just not relevant in todays ever changing environment. Alternative energies are needed, new fresh ideas are needed in Politics and foriegn affairs, new environmental regulations are needed (it is still cheaper to pollute and pay fines then to comply with government regulations.)
Without change and investiment into the future, we will stagnate and loose our power and greatness in the world.

Now is the time to be anything but Conservative.
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[wookiebender]

"anything but conservative"
OMG wookie, are you kidding?
Dumbest post yet
Spoken like a true liberal

[real conservative]

To:wookibender
No problem. The republican party should just be honest about it and change thr name to: "The Other Liberal Party" I would like to see, as a matter of experiment what the republicans could win without conservative support. Perhaps conservatives need to teach the republican party a lesson.

[To Wookibender]

Just to let you know, "Globalization" is a conservative idea, and one despised by liberals.

[Bill OReilly]

The definitions of conservative and liberals cited so self-servingly here and elsewhere by modern liberals have little to do with contemporary politics. Many conservatives consider today themselves "classical liberals" in some sort of neo-Jeffersonian sense. Today's liberals are statists who brook no dissent from thr "good" ideas.

Now as far as this "big tent" nonsense is concerned, I don't believe any cohesive party party can welcome folks whose views vary significantly from the mainstream of that party on key issues.

One of the hot button issues in America is unfortunately abortion. While Brown settled the desegration issue to the extent that nobody supports state-sponsored segregation today, Roe continues to evoke the ire of many good Americans. On this issue, the GOP majority does tolerate and indeed welcome pro-choice dissenters. On this issue, the Democrat Party tolerates no such dissent from its party line.

Can anyone name issues where the Democrat Party welcomes dissenters, but the GOP does not?
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[WantaghDem]

"Can anyone name issues where the Democrat Party welcomes dissenters, but the GOP does not?"


Gee, what could they be? EVERY SINGLE POLICY ITEM IN THE WORLD, you idiot! Do you not understand this ONE SIMPLE THING? That conservatives are bound by a strict and rigid ideology that tells them what is "right" and what is "wrong" no matter what the facts say? And that progressives' ENTIRE existence is dedicated to PROGRESS? To looking fiercely and honestly at an issue, DEBATING and testing and disagreng and FIGURING OUT the answer?

You really don't understand this, do you?
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[Reilly crushes Wantagh De]

...no idea what you are talking about.

You picked the absolute worst policy to compare the two parties' "obedience requirements."

Enjoy the spanking.


Here's what the GOP tolerates from its incumbents or candidates on abortion: YOU MUST BE COMPLETELY AGAINST ANY AND ALL ABORTIONS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER....YOU MUST EVEN BE AGAINST ABORTION PROCEDURES THAT DO NOT AND HAVE NEVER EXISTED. YOU MAY NOT SUPPORT ABORTION IN ANY WAY OR YOU WILL BE TARGETED FOR "UNELECTION" IN THE NEXT PRIMARY FROM SOMEONE FAR FAR TO YOUR RIGHT.

PERIOD. ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION THAT ALL REPUBLICANS MUST BE 100% ANTI-CHOICE UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES.


Here's what the Democratic party tolerates from its incumbents or candidates on abortion: YOU MAY SUPPORT PARENTAL NOTIFICATION OR NOT, AS YOU CHOOSE; YOU MAY SUPPORT PARENTAL CONSENT OR NOT, AS YOU CHOOSE; YOU MAY SUPPORT TRIMESTER LIMITATIONS OR NOT, AS YOU CHOOSE; YOU MAY SUPPORT LIMITATIONS ON REASONS FOR CHOOSING ABORTION OR NOT, AS YOU CHOOSE; IT IS COMPLETELY UP TO YOU.


What a pair of idiots!

[billoreilly]

Some confused soul suggested "ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION THAT ALL REPUBLICANS MUST BE 100% [Pro-Life] UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES."

Huh? How many pro-choice GOPers must I name? I won't bother. The rational among us know that the GOP has many elected officials who disagree with the Party's mainstream on abortion.

Then came the alleged tolerant position of the Democrat Party:

YOU MAY SUPPORT PARENTAL NOTIFICATION OR NOT,
YOU MAY SUPPORT PARENTAL CONSENT OR NOT,
YOU MAY SUPPORT TRIMESTER LIMITATIONS OR NOT;
YOU MAY SUPPORT LIMITATIONS ON REASONS FOR CHOOSING ABORTION OR NOT.

Of course, implicit in all of this gibberish is YOU MAY NOT SUPPORT OVERTURNING ROE.

Now I must admit some confusion. Why does this self-styled Dem post here? I'm on my way to the answer. This person is actually a conservative GOPer. The poster's strategy is to make all liberal Dems look really foolish by posting utterly asinine remarks. Interesting. Personally, I have many liberal friends who can make much better arguments at thr worst moments. I have little use for such attempts at ultracleverness.

[WantaghDem]

I didn't think it was possible, but you seem to be more of an ignorant pansy than the 'real' bill o'rlly (i use quotes because he has lied about who he is more than jean valjean).

Ever hear of the Club for Growth? Karl Rove? Tom DeLay? Dick Armey (before we tucked tail and ran)?

Each of these has publicly admitted to targeting any moderate republicans who will not toe the conservative line. In 2000 at l 16 republicans were targeted in the primaries for bng too moderate.

The candidate's stance on abortion is but one criteria, but it is certainly the most important litmus test of support from the party!

And what an idiotic thing to say about Roe v Wade! OF COURSE no one should work to overturn it - no matter WHAT party they're in! You are a SIMPLETON if you think that would be a good idea! Worse - you are a CONSERVATIVE (at which, even simpletons know enough to look down upon)!

What an idiot!


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[Bill OReilly]

I see these Democrats come and go. They post a bunch of nonsense, disappear and re-emerge weeks later under a new identity. This is likely more of the same.

While some groups (e.g., The Club for Growth) within the GOP have attempted to impose thr views on the entire party, they have failed. As previously stated, the GOP -- unlike the Democrat Party -- tolerates folks on both sides of the abortion chasm. Note that the previous poster has dropped this point.

"[W]hat an idiotic thing to say about Roe v. Wade!" This sad person seems to use variants of the word "idiot" frequently to describe views and people with whom he/she disagrees. Many good people still believe that Roe was wrongly decided. Only intolerant Democrats insist that all hew to thr pro-abortion party line.

"You are a SIMPLETON . . . . " More insults as a substitute for argument. I decline to reply in kind.

"[Y]ou are a CONSERVATIVE." At l he/she got one thing right. Yes, I am a conservative. Hardly a surprise to any, but the most dense.

Guess what? In politics, conservatives outnumber liberals and we're winning. That's why I'm bemused and the prior poster is hysterical.
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[wookibender]

Quote: Guess what? In politics, conservatives outnumber liberals and we're winning. That's why I'm bemused and the prior poster is hysterical.

Here's the real thread stopper....

If you're winning, tell me some things George Bush has done that are good for the Average American? Please don't speculate... show some proof.

Here, I will help you...

He started the National Do Not Call Registry..

Now list me some more please....
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[WantaghDem]

no idea what you are talking about.

I don't call people "idiots" just because we disagree. I call someone an idiot who acts like an idiot, and then I painstakingly demonstrate how they have acted this way.

For example:

"Note that the previous poster has dropped this point."

Funny. But I didn't. Anyone can look at the above post to see that I have once again demonstrated that the GOP has an abortion litmus test - carried out primarily now between Rove and DeLay - and the Democrats do not. You don't know what you are talking about.

"Many good people still believe that Roe was wrongly decided."

No one said they weren't good people just because they are WRONG about Roe.

"Only intolerant Democrats insist that all hew to thr pro-abortion party line."

Over 95% of pro-choice people are anti-abortion. You are a conservative, and deal with simple black and white (in more ways than one), so we don't expect you to understand this.

"In politics, conservatives outnumber liberals and we're winning. That's why I'm bemused and the prior poster is hysterical. "

This statement is what's hysterical. Conservatism is still a radical, small, minority movement that can't even decide to which party it belongs. Less than half of all elected Republicans in the country self-identify as "conservative." You are small, you are dwindling, and you are flaming out. Buh-bye!
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[Denis Holland]

Shut-up already-please.

[Dennis Holland]

Nice try but I spell my name "Dennis". Thats my father's spelling and he passed away over a year ago. So please refrain from using it. Thank you.
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[question for Bill]

Bill O'Rlly,
Are you the same Bill O'Rlly that attempts to market himself as a pro law and order type guy and then wants to reward illegal aliens with guest worker status? Illegal aliens are invaders and must be deported. They were deported in 1929 and 1954 and can easily be deported again. Lawbreakers must NEVER be rewarded!

[WantaghDem]

"Lawbreakers must NEVER be rewarded!"

Then why did Bush hire Poindexter at the Pentagon?

Why did your party run Oliver North for the Senate?

For that matter, why did the Supreme Court install Bush as pResident?



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[Mr Policeman]

Your pummeling of Wantagh Dem's behind in these exchanges constitutes "endangering the welfare of a child" as that term is understood by the Penal Code of the State of New York. I am hearby placing you under citizen's arrest!

[WantaghDem]

....where your limited intellect allows you to think that.

From a people who believe in "god" I would expect nothing more than total ignorance on all subjects, politics especially!

If you believe in "god" then it's a stone's throw believing in your feeble minds actually capable of anything. Such as making the stupendously stupid argument that the GOP is "open" on the subject of abortion and the Dems are not!

The party that INVENTED the term - and the idea of, since it doesn't exist and never has - "partial-birth abortion" - can not be expected to be intellectually honest when it comes to thr own backyard.

I also find it funny that the Keystone Kop here thinks that repeating a lie proven to be wrong constitutes "pummeling." And I bet you think Arnold can "fight" and that his "muscles" make him "strong."

You are a dwindling, dying bunch of superstitious throwbacks. You will have your place in history, but you won't have one in the future.
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[WantaghDem]

I see the light now, I understand that Republican is the only party to be. I love Bill O'rlly. I watch his show all the time. Clinton was the worst president ever, and I think George W is the best.
I am sorry Conservatives, I love you.
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[WantaghDem]

Once again, some incompetent, incontinent, impotent, jealous little little-brain (ie, the perfect definition of the conservative) has posted as me.

Once again, they have accomplished nothing.

You lie, you cheat, you steal someone else's name recognition, you hide who you are, you destroy but do not create, you criticize but do not help....

Sounds like you're ready to steal an election as only a true conservative can.
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[WantaghRep]

My god wantagh, you are so incredibly annoying.
Your vision of yourself is a little bit more than you probably are.
You sit very very very left, whine like a little girl, maybe you should be in the primary for 2004 too.
Stay in your own forum democrat liberal wuss.
So please go away. You are a sight for sore eyes.

[WantaghDem]

Hey dude:

1. I'll post anything, anywhere, anytime. Thanks for trying to be the Nazi that your party demands you to be, and crush any dissent - just like your deserting little girlieman chimp of a pResident, but I live in America. The land of the free (me) and the home of the brave (not you).

2. "A sight for sore eyes" means that seng the person IS WELCOME. It means that seng the person in question is A GOOD THING. You are an idiot as well as a moron, since you are both dumb AND a republican. If you were a democrat, at l you'd only be an idiot (though we can change that through education) - but it would be IN SPITE of bng a democrat!
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[FAB5]

Wow, you tell him Wantagh!
Way to come back with that.
You make me proud to be a democrat.

[Bill OReilly]

Well, I think I established through a recitation of facts that the Democrat Party is much less tolerant of dissent than the GOP. In reply to same, I recved a "Holy Non Sequiter, Batman" response that attacked religion. I asked for specifics (e.g., name prominent pro-life Dems) and got gibberish. I asked for issues where the Democrats tolerate dissent and got insults. Oh well.

This thread has now degenerated into name-calling. I choose not to indulge. I do note that one self-styled Democrat's posts seem quite intolerant, frequently insult the intelligence and religious beliefs of others and use homophobic ("pansy&quot misogynist ("girlieman&quot epithets at those who presume to disagree. Quite sad.

I ask yet again. Why do these extremely partisan Democrats feel so compelled to post in a "Republican Forum"? Do they wish to demonstrate thr own presupposed notion of vastly superior intellect? Do they simply wish to demean those who have the audacity to have differing views? It matters not. Thr posts say much more about thr paucity of ideas than I ever could. It's a shame. Thinking liberals actually do have ideas. Many articulate them quite convincingly. The LiberalDems that post here cannot seem to express themselves in a reasoned manner.

I hope they find other, more constructive, ways to express thr views and learn a little about sensitivity, compassion and tolerance in the process.

I will pray for them. God will certainly bless them, even if voters will not.
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[WantaghDem]

"name prominent pro-life Dems"

You can't be this dense....is this Dennis Dunne posing as O'Rlly? C'mon, out with it, you lying veteran-dishonoring traitor!

I'LL SAY THIS AGAIN:

Here's what the Democratic party tolerates from its incumbents or candidates on abortion: YOU MAY SUPPORT PARENTAL NOTIFICATION OR NOT, AS YOU CHOOSE; YOU MAY SUPPORT PARENTAL CONSENT OR NOT, AS YOU CHOOSE; YOU MAY SUPPORT TRIMESTER LIMITATIONS OR NOT, AS YOU CHOOSE; YOU MAY SUPPORT LIMITATIONS ON REASONS FOR CHOOSING ABORTION OR NOT, AS YOU CHOOSE; IT IS COMPLETELY UP TO YOU.

One doesn't have to be anti-choice in order to "dissent" on abortion in the Democratic Party.

Since you have tried to set me up (get me to give you examples, and then try to claim that they are exceptions) I'll give you ONE abortion example that stands in for literally HUNDREDS of votes.

On October 21, 1999, Senator Lincoln voted to ban an abortion procedure that doesn't even exist. THAT is a double-dissent from the Democratic Party....once for the abortion limitation and once for bng intellectually dishonest!

On October 21, 1999, Senator Bayh voted to ban the same non-existent procedure.

Senators Breaux and Landrieu did the same.

Senators Rd (N) and Moynihan did the same.

Senators Conrad and Dorgan did the same.

Senators Hollings, Daschle, and Johnson did the same.

Senators Leahy and Byrd did the same.

ALL of these Senators "broke ranks" and voted against an abortion procedure that doesn't even exist - and against the Democratic party's platform. NONE of these Senators have been targeted. NONE have suffered any negative party consequences.

ALL GOPers who are CONSISTENTLY against the GOP's conservative leaders on MOST issues have been targeted in one way or another.

You don't see the irony in my comments, do you? There are only about two topics that I use "girlieman" - in speaking about the pseudo-he-men O'Rlly and enegger. IT IS IRONY. I AM USING THE SAME WORDS AND TACTICS AGAINST THEM. You aren't this dense...PLEASE tell me you aren't, and are instead simply trying to "win" for "winning's" sake.


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[WantaghDem]

and BOTH of the Democratic candidates vying for the gubernatorial nomination in WV are so-called PRO-LIFE.

BOTH.


So ther way the primary goes, you get something you claimed didn't exist at all.

You are (this is not a name, it's a description) a LOSER.
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[ALoneSoldier]

Democrats are only for 'choice' as it pertains to terminating a pregnancy. Ask them if they believe Americans should have a say in where thr children go to school, or in how to invest in thr retirement and they will tell you that Americans are to stupid to make those decisions. Ask them if Americans can have a choice about how to spend thr own money and you hear that government can better serve them if it keeps the money. Seems to me like democrats on the left only favor using the word 'choice' on the one issue that is so devisive that half the country is alienated by thr repeated assertion that you are anti choice if you don't agree with abortion. If dems are so concerned about individual liberties where are they on these other issues? Socialist Pigs, heres a choice, keep Al Gores lock box away from my money.

[REBEL]

The amazing thing is in 1996 Bin Laden was handed to Clinton on a silver platter. Clinton didn't think making a deal with Sudan during a presidental election would look good in the polls. In the interest of his own political career, not our security, he waited. Bin Laden left Sudan, moved to Afghanistan and began planning 9/11. Bill Clinton is a sad joke, and failure.

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[WantaghDem]

Hey soldier....when you turn 65, do you think there will be any social security for you? Or, if you do you 20, do you think you'll actually GET your pension?

And if you don't do 20, do you honestly believe they'll be any VA money for your health care?

You are young and ignorant...they way you're going, you'll be old and ignorant, and dead broke, and will get no help from Uncle Bankrupt Sam.


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[SuzieQ]

Without ranting and raving and name calling, please tell me how, if you were the president, you would handle the 9/11 attack? I don't what any witty answers, I just want to know your thoughts on this?
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[ALoneSoldier]

wantagh dem, Ive already started saving for retirement, because I know social security won't be there and I don't think it's the job of government in providing for the common good to go so far as to be a socialist system. I just wish people like yourself would stop voting for people who raise my taxes to pay for a program I won't be using anyway. Where is the choice in forcing middle america to work from January to May just to pay the Government? Its the Governments job to provide for the common good, defense, education, fire and police. None of your social projects.

[WantaghDem]

....your opinion about America, to which you are entitled.

However, a few hundred years of history - and specifically, the last seventy years of liberalism progress in the United States - have proven you wrong.

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[ALoneSoldier]

I don't typicially stand on the shoulders of a majority opinion because sometimes the majority is wrong. But I think if 70 years had proven me wrong that it doesnt quite account for the fact that the American people put people who think like me in the White House and both houses of congress. And that people who think like you are having to force your will on everyone though unelected judges which violates the consititution and won't stand for much longer as it amounts to nothing less than than tyrany.

[Old School]

He's created a huge new bureaucracy.
His domestic discretionary spending is up 20.8% during his term, far higher than Clinton's -0.07%.
He's thrown billions at education, farm subsidies and forgn aid with no positive economic result.
He's expanding Medicare benefits.
He lied in making a case for war.
He's gone from a surplus to a record deficit.
He's lost 2.5 million jobs on his watch.
He's President George "LBJ" Bush.

With conservatives like him, who needs liberals? Like NY RINO's, GWBush is tending to be socialist. Tell me, Rebel, why do you support him?

[Bill OReilly]

I'm bemused, if not flattered. Some 16 minutes after my Friday evening post, a self-styled Democrat posted a well-considered reply. It's nice to think that my words influence the schedule of such people so. For my part, I would have replied sooner, but unlike most Dems, I am an employed, married, heterosexual parent with a real life.

Now I asked several times for the list of nationally prominent pro-life Democrats. After citing the March, 2003 vote on Roe. v. Wade, the self-styled Democrat replied by citing an October, 1999 vote in which 13 Democrats did vote the pro-life position on one narrow aspect of abortion (i.e., a ban on partial-birth abortion). Great work! Many of those 13 still serve in the Senate. Most even still live.

Of course, this vote concerned only partial-birth abortion. Many pro-abortion Democrats such as Senator Moynihan opposed that abomination. So, the self-styled Democrat will need to research this a little more thoroughly.

I am also reliably informed that both Dems seeking thr party's nomination for governor in West Virginia are pro-life. With respect to those who dwell in the lovely hills of West Virginia, I'm not so sure those two good folks qualify as nationally prominent. Perhaps the writer agrees because he/she didn't bother to mention thr (household) names. If this is the best one can do to identify prominent pro-life Dems, then it does say a great deal about how undiverse a big tent the Democrat Party has become.

The self-styled Dem also repeated some gibberish about what the Democrat Party allows its candidates to do (" YOU MAY SUPPORT PARENTAL NOTIFICATION OR NOT, AS YOU CHOOSE . . . .&quot . I've already responded to this when posted the first time. Rather than bore anybody with repetition, I refer those interested to my prior reply. Now I'll simply ask whether these candidate instructions came from some sort of official Democrat document. Or did they instead spring from the feverish mind of the individual who posted them?

As an aside, I do find it amusing to see the continued references to partial birth abortion as "an abortion procedure that doesn't even exist." Does this writer realize that the Democrat Party explicitly supports a women's right to "an abortion procedure that doesn't even exist." What other things that "don't exist" do Democrats support or oppose?

Second aside: Writing "[y]ou are (this is not a name, it's a description) a LOSER" is one of the most fetid attempts at sophistry that I've ever encountered.

Enough. I'm sure all tire from staring at my inane writing attempts. So, I've decided to bring in a guest columnist who shares my views and expresses them much more eloquently.

Fred Barnes.

PRO-LIFE DEMOCRATS
The Weekly Standard, September 9, 1996

NATIONAL CHAIRMAN DONALD FOWLER says Democrats "respect the right of people who disagree with us" on abortion. They can still be "good Democrats." That's the official position of the party, anyway. But here's what really happens:

* Rep. Glenn Poshard of Illinois insists pro-life Democrats like himself are routinely punished by House leaders because of anti-abortion votes. On bills with abortion-related amendments, they often vote against the party position. As a result, thr party loyalty scores are lower, and they're denied committee assignments and other privileges. "There's no group in Congress that suffers more than pro-life Democrats," Poshard says.

* Pro- lifers -- roughly one-fifth of House Democrats -- contacted Leon Panetta, President Clinton's chief of staff, and other White House aides in hopes of talking about Clinton's opposition to the ban on partial-birth abortion. Clinton aides didn't call back. The president vetoed the ban.

* Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan says anti-abortion Democrats are subjected to slurs and snide remarks by pro-choice colleagues. This occurred, for example, after they voted to bar taxpayer-funded abortion and to block partial-birth abortions, according to Stupak.

* Former Pennsylvania governor Bob Casey, the party's leading pro-lifer, was contacted by the White House through an intermediary about possibly addressing the Chicago convention. (He was famously barred from the podium in New York in 1992.) He was interested. On August 16, he wrote to the president asking to speak and "give integrity to the tolerance pledge in the Democratic platform." Nther Clinton nor any aide responded.

That didn't stop Casey from coming to Chicago, where he addressed a rally and gave TV and radio interviews. Despite the party's putative tolerance, Casey called the convention "a very hostile environment." Even so, he said: "I'd rather be in the convention hall than outside."

The environment was so unfriendly that, while pro-choice Democrats defended thr position inside the United Center, pro-life Democrats had to meet miles away at the Field Museum. There, several of the speakers talked more about civility and party unity than abortion. Only Stupak addressed the issue frontally. "The enormity of 1.5 million lives bng destroyed every year cannot be overlooked, cannot be forgotten," he said.

Unlike Casey, anti- abortion House members got inside the hall. Some were delegates. And one, Rep. Tony Hall of Ohio, was permitted to utter several prolife sentences in a brief speech on the second night of the convention.

He and other pro-life Democrats "have felt left out by our party's position on abortion for many years," Hall said. "But this year is different." Now, with a conscience clause on abortion newly added to the platform, "the Democratic party is indeed the party of true inclusion."

But the new platform language doesn't mention that many Democrats are opposed to abortion. It doesn't mention abortion at all. And it certainly doesn't include the phrase "partial-birth abortion," the third-trimester abortion procedure opposed by three-quarters of Americans. It says only that the party "respects the individual conscience of each American on this difficult issue."

To get this small, nebulous concession, Hall, Poshard, Stupak, and others had to lobby both the White House and the Democratic National Committee. They drafted three separate statements, hoping one would be acceptable. Fowler took the three to the platform committee. The result was "a middle ground of the things we gave them," says Poshard.

What's clear from this episode is that pro-life House Democrats are a timid lot. Yet they act as if they've forced a major change in direction for the party. "It's an acknowledgement we exist," says Stupak. " It's an acknowledgement we're an integral part of the party." Poshard says it is "a step in the right direction."

Casey sees the new language differently. "It's a joke," he says. Pro-life voters "won't be fooled by the tolerance language." And it won't help Clinton mollify pro-life Democratic voters, many of them ethnic Catholics, in battleground states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, and Illinois.

If Bob Dole and Jack Kemp stress Clinton's partial- birth abortion veto, the president may lose 2 or 3 percent of the vote on that issue alone, says Casey. "That could be very important, if not determinative. Those are the battleground states and that's the battleground constituency."

Might some of these Democrats quit the party over abortion? Perish the thought. "Oh, gosh, no," answers Poshard. How about fighting to make the platform abortion-neutral? "We didn't want to get into a big fight," says Stupak. "We'd come up on the short end of the vote." Even Casey is leery of joining the GOP: "There are just a lot of things on the Republican side I just don't like."

Well, how about prodding Democratic officials to let Casey address the convention? Couldn't do that, say the Democratic pro-lifers. Casey had a "problem," says Poshard. He wanted to speak on abortion, not simply to refer to the subject in passing as Hall did.

In other words, he wanted to do what Kate Michelman of the National Abortion Rights Action League did. She addressed the convention solely on abortion -- from the pro- choice side. She described an abortion -- her own. "For me, it was a difficult choice," Michelman said. "But it was mine alone to make! Mine!"

Michelman didn't have to lobby, fight, or raise a ruckus to be invited to the podium, ther.
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[WantaghDem]

...this O'Rlly sounds as silly as the "real" O'Rlly when he tries to use "big words" and sound like an educated person. I'm surprised our local version didn't use the words "opine" or bloviate!....no matter, he used enough "big boy words" clumsily enough for us to know the score.

"Many pro-abortion Democrats such as Senator Moynihan opposed that abomination. "

Wow. 13 out of around 50 in the Senate are "many"? You must really HAVE gone to public school.

And we finally agree! Making up a medical procedure that does not exist, has never been performed, could not ever be performed as described, and does not appear in one single piece of medical literature in order to fool people into voting for you is INDEED an abomination.


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[40smith]

I wouldn't talk wantagh. You are much the hyprocrit.
It is unfortunate that you use personal attacks when you feel threatened. Do not deny it.
You were picked on in high school, and must now relate to name calling behind a computer monitor. No big words here. Just the truth.
Now go ahead, call me a conservative right wing pro life gun toting bush supporter.
It doesn't matter. You are plankton compared to the rest of the humpbacks.
________
Cams Live (http://camslivesexy.com/)

[Freedom]

No Choice For Pro-Life Democrats

Pro-life Americans who want to support a Democratic candidate during next year?s presidential election will have a hard time finding legitimate options. While commentary on the number of interested leaders hoping to secure nomination abounds, diversity in the group?s views on abortion is lacking. With a total of nine declared candidates, Democratic constituents have a variety of choices when it comes to race, gender, religion, or previous experience. With respect to abortion, however, the records of each individual are not promising for pro-life voters. A brief overview of the current candidates and thr positions on abortion follows.

Former U.S. Senator (1992 ? 199 and U.S. Ambassador to New Zealand (1999 ? 2001), Carol Moseley Braun has most recently has been practicing law while also teaching law and political science at Morris Brown College and DePaul University. While Ms. Moseley Braun claims to advocate for equal opportunity and social justice, she is also a supporter of ?reproductive freedom?.

Governor Howard Dean of Vermont is a physician who boasts fiscal responsibility as a tool for social justice and points to Vermont?s high quality of health care coverage for children and decreased rates of violent crime as evidence of his commitment. With reference to his medical background, Dean states that ?[a]bortion is a deeply personal decision, which ought to be made between the patient, the family and physician.? He sees abortion as ?a medical decision? and does not believe that the government should ?interject itself into medical decisions to advance the religious or moral agenda of a politically-vocal minority.? Dean also views the recent partial-birth abortion debate as ?nonsense? and ?a cynical example of political grandstanding?.

Senator John Edwards of North Carolina is proud to be a product of public schools and the first member of his family to attend college, eventually earning a law degree. Edwards is discreet about his stance on abortion, but is nonetheless pro-choice.

As a congressman from St. Louis, Missouri, House Democratic Leader Dick Gephardt is running under the banner of ?new ideas from common ideals.? One such new idea garnering Gephardt?s support is an international minimum wage. In tracing the thirty-year-old Roe v. Wade decision during a speech at NARAL?s celebration of the event on January 21 of this year, Gephardt illustrated that there was nothing new about his views on abortion. Refering to his original political position, stemming from a religious background, Gephardt said he was originally taught that ?abortion was wrong? and that there ?was a moral reason it was illegal.? Having cast his first pro-choice vote in 1986, however, Gephardt feels he has come to understand that ?one thing that must be certain, and that is the freedom to choose.? Gephardt strongly believes that abortion is ?the foothold? that will allow Democrats ?to reclaim the high ground on the issues of vital importance to the American people?.

Proud that he has never lost an election during a life of public service, Florida Senator Bob Graham is currently in his third term in the U.S. Senate. Although Graham, like several other candidates, wants to increase funding for women?s shelters and crack down on deadbeat dads, he also ?has cast crucial votes in favor of a woman's right to choose.? Most recently, Graham ?again voted on the Senate floor against the ban on partial-birth abortion,? a gruesome procedure that few consider medically necessary and to which Americans are overwhelmingly opposed.

After having served in Vietnam as a member of the U.S. Navy, John Kerry is currently in his fourth term as a U.S. Senator from Massachusetts. Having ?marched for the ERA? thirty years ago, Kerry?s ?first statement in the United States Senate was in strong support of Roe v. Wade, and he has fought against the conservative crusade against reproductive rights, from gag rules that stop doctors from discussing choice with thr patients to efforts to deny poor women the right to choose?.

U.S. Representative Dennis Kucinich of Ohio calls himself ?The Progressive Choice? for Democrats. Committed to grassroots activism, Kucinich ?has been recognized for his advocacy of human rights in Burma, Nigeria and Timor? and is one of few congressional vegans, a decision made out of ?deepening his belief in the sacredness of all species.? While Kucinich was originally a promising candidate with a pro-life record, his desire to run for president prompted a political change that has disappointed pro-life voters and perhaps cost Kucinich the support of this Democratic faction. Preparing for the campaign ?caused [Kucinich] to break from a voting record that had not been pro-choice? and to now state not only that he supports ?Roe v. Wade and woman?s right to choose? but that he ?will only support someone for the Supreme Court if he or she chooses to uphold Roe v. Wade?.

Recent vice presidential candidate during Al Gore?s 2000 election campaign, former Senator Joe Lieberman claims that his ?combination of a muscular forgn policy, a pro-growth, pro-business agenda, and progressive social stands [sic] is unusual among the candidates,? but his position regarding abortion is not. He recved a score of 100% from NARAL?s infamous rating of how officials ?protect a woman?s right to choose? in 2001 and 2002 and has earned an overall career rating of 95%.

As political analyst Fred Siegal said in a March 7 article in The Washington Post, Reverend Al Sharpton?s ?primary accomplishment? is ?constantly bng able to recreate himself.? Sharpton has once again recreated his image, this time as a Democratic candidate for the office of U.S. President. His stance on abortion has undergone no similar transformation, and he remains pro-choice, a position that is particularly at odds with his Pentecostal background.

www.Democratsforlife.org (A group of pro-lifers who decided to stay in the party and fight for life within the Party)
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ARIZONA MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARY (http://arizona.dispensaries.org/)

[WantaghDem]

Do you even KNOW the meaning of the word "hypocrit"? Show me one post where I am proven to be one...




________
Lovely Wendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[40]

hypocrit D">

[Bill OReilly]

Well, after my last post, it appears that the discussion of GOP inclusiveness compared to Democrat intolerance has ended satisfactorily.

The best one self-styled Dem can do in reply consists of insults. I apologize to those who felt so challenged by the "'big words'" I used that they needed to resort to a dictionary. Though I do wonder which words were too "'big'" for the frustrated complainer.

Comments such as "sound like an educated person" simply betray the desperation of someone who has little grasp of an issue. Quite sad actually.

Hypocrisy? I suppose examples of it abound on both sides of the political divide. I do know that "diversity" and "tolerance" are Democrat buzzwords. When it comes to tolerating diverse viewpoints on abortion, the Democrat Party seems to have missed the mark by a mile. So, I suppose one could accuse those Dems who preach diversity and tolerance as hypocrites.
________
Honda Acty History (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_Acty)

[Waste of Space]

The problem with O'Rlly's argument is his premise. He is saying that, since there are no pro-Life Democrats (in your opinion), then those who are have been stifled.

The premise is false. All Democratic candidates may just have the same views. Any who are anti-abortion could just as well have changed parties.

So....go ahead and discuss inclusion/exclusion by the parties. Just try to start with a logical and true supposition.

[Bill OReilly]

Please reread my posts. You'll never see that I ever came close to suggesting that no pro-life Dems exist. In fact, I even named one: late Pennsylvania Governor Casey. Fred Barnes named more. I then explained how the Dems silenced Casey over his pro-life views. Fred Barnes gave more examples.

Another individual did list the current pro-abortion views of Dem presidential contenders. However that person, as I did, mentioned the pro-life Dem group by name. Not all pro-life Dems have followed the likes of Denis Dillon (and me) out of the party. Those pro-lifers that remain have objected to thr mistreatment at the hands of pro-abortion Dems.

Try to start discussing the issue (Dem tolerance or lack thereof) instead of pretending the issue (or "premise&quot doesn't exist.


________
WILLYS HURRICANE ENGINE (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Willys_Hurricane_engine)

[X Voter]

Phil, did you actually scan that long and boring post? Wow, get a life! Dems, and Rep. alike should stay out of the Abortion issue, it shouldn't be an issue discussed among "politicians" that are just looking to appeal to a certain political affiliation, and who gives a hoot about what politician believe's is best for any woman! I further take great offense to you posing as O'Rlly, you're probably an insecure creep, when you're probably Phil Donahue!
________
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[WantaghDem]

....of all is that politicians who are so-called "pro-life" have been hoodwinking gullible ignorants like this O'Rlly for decades now....thousands and thousands have ran on a platform to overturn Roe v Wade in one way or another, and not a single one of them has been successful! They are just stringing this people along - people who are so dense as to actually vote for someone for thr supposed stand on ONE SINGLE ISSUE! And so stupefyingly dense as to support these people, year after year, IN SPITE of the fact that on this ONE SINGLE ISSUE, they have failed repeatedly!

It's funny to see people so taken in by these con men and women....SO taken in, in fact, that there response always is (and is sure to be) "I'm not taken in.....I know exactly what I am doing!"


Sure you do, sure you do......



________
Wellbutrin Settlement (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/wellbutrin/)

[billoreilly]

"[D]id you actually scan that long and boring post?"

Scan? No. Ten second cut and paste? Yes. Sorry that you found it long. Sorrier still that its recitation of facts bored you so.

"[G]et a life! "[Y]ou're probably an insecure creep . . ."

More insults and less argument. This is what happens when liberals run out of hot air.

"[H]oodwinking gullible ignorants . . ."

Well, it's nice that I'm no longer stupid, but merely "ignorant." More insults and namecalling - see above.

"ONE SINGLE ISSUE."

Just as untrue as irrelevant.

So, in all that not a single fact or argument in support of the argument that the Democrat Party really does tolerate its pro-lifers. So sad, if not unexpected.

[X Voter]

I answered your question, and that would be "all" politician[s] should keep thr nose's out of the abortion issue! Just because you're a right wing, GOP fascist, with an Elephant stuffed, where the sun don't shine, you simply have been brain-washed by society and couldn't begin to think for yourself! You need a politial party to make you feel better about bng the littlest fish in the biggest pond. I was a Republican by the way for many year's and then, I decided to become a free-thinker, and stop plagiarizing the KKK's way's of thinking, and Bill O'Rlly's name!


________
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[Joey Ramone]

Did the KKK take your baby away?

[Freedom]

The majority of the country is pro-life and because of modern technology is becoming more and more so.

A Democratic Party?
Anti-abortion Group Seeks DNC Web Link

By Josh Kurtz
Roll Call Staff

June 2, 2003

The Web site of the Democratic National Committee links Internet users to the sites of 279 political and advocacy organizations, labor unions, religious groups and government agencies.

The list, divided into 28 categories, includes everything from the Willie Valasquez Institute to the Onda Indian Nation to the National Association of Social Workers.

But the DNC is resisting adding a 280th link.

For almost a year, an organization dedicated to electing Democrats to national, state and local offices has been pressing the national party to add its Web site to the DNC?s list of linkable sites. The problem is, the organization is dedicated to electing Democrats who oppose abortion.

So far, the DNC, whose quadrennial platform in 2000 included a plank affirming the party?s support for a woman?s right to have an abortion, has refused to respond to the query by the group known as Democrats for Life of America.
________
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[X Voter]

Did ya ever see the Wizard Of Oz? Well, if you did, go get a brain! Do you have a thought, Joey? Let me answer that 4 ya.........NO!
________
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[Joey Ramone]

You're picking a fight with a dead guy, you moron. If I were alive, I'd beat on you, you brat, with a baseball bat. Oh Yeah!

[X Voter]

Told ya you didn't have a brain, it took you well over two weeks to respond, with your very witty post!
Thats all you could come up wit, your baseball bat, what a freak.
and hey Joey, take good care of that bat, sounds like ya need a bat, wit a brain like dat!
________
BMW MUSEUM HISTORY (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_Museum)

[Joey Ramone]

Hey voter, you got nothing better do then to pick fights with dead rock stars.... I heard Jimi Hendrix wants to kick you F*ckin' *ss, you moron.

I also heard the last p*ssy you got was off Janis Joplin.

[X Voter]

Whatz up, joe, your mama didn't wean ya off the brast-milk yet? Hows your we'est bat, ya rat-bastard. Say Hi to Jim, and Janis, 4 me, ya freak, Joey Ramone, get a grip, you only wish.
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Anime videos (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/3/anime/videos/1)

[Bill OReilly]

Yesterday's election in California. The pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, anti-energy, anti-2nd Amendment GOPer runs and wins.

The best someone managed to come up with to demonstrate the "existence" of the Dem's big tent was two unnamed pro-life West Virginia Dems (see a couple of posts back).


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Chrysler newport specifications (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Chrysler_Newport)

[t1dude]

that specific goal is in the Texas republican party platform. check it out:
texasgop.org/library/RPTPlatform2002.pdf

[Bill OReilly]

Yes. Good for them. So what?

Even some leftwingers -- Dershowitz for example -- think the court used half-assed reasoning to decide Roe.
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BUY VAPIR ONE (http://www.vaporshop.com/one-vaporizer.html)

[Baby Maker]

It seems like you are all men talking out of the sides of your mouths about issues for which MEN should not have a say in!

If I chooze to make babies or not, is not your concern! My religion, my race, age, economics and social status are also not your concern.

Thankfully, since abortion is the law of the land, this freedom, if I used it or not, may never change in my lifetime....Time enough for everyone to grow up a little.

I am not a slave to anyone! I was finally freed!

[logicnologic]

so you have the "right to control your own body," right?

so how come you have to "control your own body" only AFTER you need an abortion?

or did some "man" over-ride your excellent "control" and then leave YOU with the "choice" or not?

yeh, I thought so.

abortion is ALWAYS a man's escape from his shirked responsibility, and so many women need to wake up to that fact.

[GET REAL]

ALWAYS a MAN'S shirked responsibility? Oh boy, please never let me meet you on a blind date. My body, my business. If I broke my arm I wouldn't ask a man's permission to get medical attention ther.
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WHITE WIDOW SEEDS (http://marijuanaseeds.org/)

[Bill OReilly]

child support ther. With your attitude, you'll probably never run the risk of worrying about whether or not to have an "unwanted" child or some such nonsense. If you ever do "choose" to have such a child, please don't ask a man to fund your "choice."
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[NOW member]

Look's like the Bill might be harboring resentment with all that child-support he has to pay to all his out of wedlock children. If you don't want unwanted child-support then abstain gentlemen, but that isn't even a thought.
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Web shows (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[GET REAL]

Did it ever occur to any of you rocket scientist guys out there screaming about abortion that plenty of abortions occur within the bounds of wedlock for reasons involving a woman's health? Do you morons think these are easy choices for anyone to make? Saying that it is ALWAYS the fault of an irresponsible man and the public will have to fund it just an attempt to move the conversation away from the woman's health issue that it is.
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Lincoln blackwood history (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Lincoln_Blackwood)

[Meh]

I absolutely believe that it is the right of the woman to decide on whether or not to have an abortion. Men really don't get a say in that, period. As much as people like to say that it is the responsibility of both people to choose, it's not. I could tell my wife until I am blue in the face that we should have an abortion (Or to keep the child), unless I use illegal methods, she could still decide ther way against me and there isn't anything I could do about it.

I also believe that there has to start bng more options for the males. Maybe a contract that both people sign saying that if she becomes pregnant, and has told the male that she would get an abortion, but carries the child to term anyway, the male has no financial responsibilities whatsoever. Something to that effect - or even a Statute of Limitations on the amount of time a woman has to notify the father of the child in order to recve any financial assistance.

Case in point - Friend of mine slept with a lady he had known for a little while. They broke up about 2 weeks later and they never contacted each other. Now, 6 years later, she informs him that he has a son and now has to pay 5 years of back child support ($34,000). (DNA Testing confirmed)

Where is his right to have her punished for not allowing him 5 years of time to be with his only son? Why after 5 years is she now able to seek retro support when he never knew his son existed? He was never given the Choice. The woman has all of the power in any child scenario. Get Real is correct - It is all about the woman. Period.

[Those Arrears.]

As logicnologic so sucintly put it:

" you have the "right to control your own body," right?

so how come you have to "control your own body" only AFTER you need an abortion?"

and nobody's answered this question yet...

Wake up sister's! There's more to your "choice" than your letting on!

[NOW member]

none the "wiser." Abortion can be abused by some as a form of birth control, let God judge those whom abuse.
Abortion, should remain legal and safe for women in need that maybe indigent, ill, raped (there is a lot of those "Ms. Wiser") and in case(s) of incest.
The better question is "Ms" Wiser, what would you do, or have you done to help a needy pregnant girl out? I bet you "nothing."
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[Bill OReilly]

I raised the issue of child support earlier. Some tart feminist ducked the issue and asserted falsely that I was angry about paying child support myself. It's a familiar tactic with the Left these days. They're so full of hatred that they insist on these tawdry personal attacks.

Now I understand the legal and ethical issues. I even took Family Law in school because of its entertainment value. So this discussion is purely for discussion's sake.

A man and woman have sex (for other permutations, go to the Democrat folder). The woman concves a child (unless its unwanted then we call it something else). So far so good.

Now feminists say, it's all up to the woman from here. She can have the "child" or abort the "fetus." No input from the man whatsoever.

Suppose the "man" doesn't "want" the child and he offers to chip in for the abortion. Heck, he'll even be a sport and pay for the cabfare to the "clinic." Suppose the woman declines. Perhaps she's heard of the awful medical consequences of abortion.

Feminist logic holds that it's the woman's "choice" period. Isn't it a little hypocritical to demand that men pay for a choice they had no role in making? Yes, yes. He did choose to have sex. So did the woman (I hope). But thr equality of choices ended right there.

And that IS indeed the point. By making birth control so readily available and using abortion as a final solution in birth control and propagandizing about "choice," many men in society now feel, lacking "choice," that they have no responsibilities. "Oh, you're pregnant. Gee, that's too bad. Go have an abortion. Don't bother me."

Be careful what you wish for.
________
Toyota a engine specifications (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_A_engine)

[NOW member]

Marry me Bill, you're a darling!
Here is a real case scenario, in the real world. A woman chooses to have a child despite what the biological father chooses, he opt's for an abortion, the mother opt's for the birth, the mother never makes him pay child support, the father never becomes a part of the child's life, (his own volition) the child now becomes an adult, the biological father returns in hopes of a relationship between the father and now adult child, (over 21) and they become friends. The Mom has worked very hard to provide for the child,and loved that child twice as much, never depending on welfare. Bill, should Mommy be mad, at Daddy, or should she forgive and forget?
________
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[Bill OReilly]

As a married father of several children, I have no expertise in giving advice on how to cope with broken families. Well, actually I have no expertise at all in giving any sort of meaningful advice on personal matters.

So, with regard to your situation I can only suggest that they all: be angry (the father at himself), never forget, but certainly forgive. Anger and hatred are self-defeating and life is too short. At l the good news here is that one child somehow survived "choice." I often wonder how Norma McCovey's daughter feels about Roe v. Wade.
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[NOW member]

I didn't ask for your advice, I asked for your response to a life situation that you couldn't possibly answer, or maybe even understand. I do hope Bill, that you're peeling the dollar bills out of your wallet, and supporting charities that preserve the life of a child, if you're not, please begin.
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[GET REAL]

Our porous borders allow countless undocumented aliens to cross into our country illegally, expose themselves to substandard economic and safety conditions, generally pay no taxes, and burden our country's taxpayers who fund thr education, healthcare, and emergency services.

The Zero validation requirement for H1B Visas takes jobs away from higly educated native American technology workers, again diluting our economy.

Exporting jobs to telecommuters in third world countries not only provides further means to dilute our economy, but exposes our economy to the risky well-bng of unstable forgn governments.

Here's a position the GOP needs to understand. Personal matters are not matters for the government. Economic policy is.
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[NOW member]

is right, government should stay on economic issues and stay away from the topic of abortion, at l until they can devise a credible debate that will convince women to believe pro life is the only choice. As of today, the government has a very long road to walk for that debate, and hasn't come up with any really good reason(s) to ban early term abortion. For those women that are maybe indigent, young, raped and women that are victims of incest. Bill O'Rlly, believes they should be born under those conditions despite those reality facts.
Moral issues, such as abortion, should be kept out of government.
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LIVE SEX WEBSHOWS (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[NOW member]

As a former Republican, what are you trying to say? Looks as if Civil Right's, Equal Protection of the Laws, and the Constitution is looking grim. Twenty more years we should be looking at America, as a Repubic, and not a Democracy. The people won't have the choice, the government will. Wake up America, your right's are bng mangled by the oppressive goverment no matter who takes office. Rep/Dem.
I can't wait to see your faces when big brother take over the US, it's already in the making, "you know for your protection." What a joke!
Maybe we can ask the Federal Government where the 2 trillion dollars went that appears to have gone unaccounted for? They can't answer the question.
Any person who is too far left, or too far right just gives me the creeps. Fight for Freedom, not a political party. Life, Liberty and Justice for "all."
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AngelxFace (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/AngelxFace/)

[mcj]

I do agree that to far to the left or right is not good.
But the National Organization for Women has shown that any improprieties by national Democrat figures the organization will remain silent. The exploitation of women should be your greatest concern. After nearly two generations of your organization women are exploited more than ever before. The medium which we are both using has helped to exploit men and women in the most horrendous of ways. Yet I don't see NOW publically trying to stop porn on the internet or in the magazines.
The recent ads in Abercrombie and Fitch directed to our under age kids is most destructive as are some movies. The exploitation of women in Hollywood seems to be forgotten by your NOW group too. It's very unfortunate that NOW is just another tool of the far left in the Democrat party.
________
The Cigar Boss (http://thecigarboss.com/)

[Notexploitation]

If a woman voluntarily decides to pose nude for Movies, Magazines, Post Cards, Websites or whatever, how is that exploitation?

Child pornography, along with bng grotesque, is absolute exploitation. No right of consent. When the person doesn't know the picture is bng taken. No consent.

Personally, I would much rather my son, daughter, nephews or niece see a naked woman / man than a lot of the violence and scare tactics that the news portrays. It's the human body, male or female, and unless something has changed to the general population that I am not aware of, there is nothing to be ashamed of.. Period.

To say that seng a naked woman is somehow exploitative, I think, is in error. Unless consent was never given.

[Eastender]

As of end of 2003

297 million people

There is one birth in America every 12 seconds (calculated by birth versus death)

At that rate there will be 26,280,000 more Americans in 10 years, not including amnesty or immigration.

[orion888]

Abortion should never have been legalized for the express purpose of nothing more than *convenience for the parents for any number of reasons that can not possibly justify terminating a human life.

Partial birth abortion was straight out of hell itself.

The only reason that's truly justified, is in a case of life or death. That choice should be left up to the parent or parents of the child.

Thanks,
O

[NOW member]

just so happened to jump onto the exploits of Abercrombie and Finch's "eye candy" underwear created for little girl's that did come to a grinding halt.
What "adult" women do in general we as an organization cannot control.

Orion888, You know what's straight out of hell, a baby born with HIV, addicted to heroin/crack/cocaine. A child born inchoateness that lives two hours after it's "birth." Abusive parent(s), child protective service's that routinely forget's about indigent children, and thr welfare just because they were born, children that become wards of the state, and are abused and forgotten and used for profit by the majority of foster parents, and toss in children that are born from incest and rape.

Moreover the danger's of naive people like you, orion888. There are 25 thousand (born) kid's waiting for self righteous people such as yourself to help save them from thr doomed birth/life. What are you doing to help these children? It sounds like you may be straight out of hell.

Hell, for some kid's can be found right here on earth.



________
Pipe Shop (http://glassgallery.tumblr.com)

[GET REAL]

The President mentioned a Jobs program for displaced American workers but gave no specifics. He was too busy outlining his Visiting Worker programs that are designed to take money out of the American worker's pocket. Forget H1B and L1 Visa issues that are draining our high tech economy dry. Our President was too wrapped up in making Vicente Fox happy.
________
Digital Vaporizers (http://digitalvaporizers.info)

[Juan]

Bush should go to aztlan.net and see what some Mexicans really think of America.

[John Birch]

Guest Workers
Expanded government spending to only 4% (Oh boy!)
Moon Base/Mars Mission
Veteran's Benefits Cuts
Big Talk, No Action


Who needs Democrats?

[wi republican]

i live in the real world. The number ONE priority of this upcoming election is NATIONAL SECURITY!! Nothing else matters because if any terrorist group is successful and pulls off something like September 11,2001, or something bigger we're screwed. Nevermind debating education, jobs, healthcare, abortion, taxes, gay marraige, etc. this president, G.W. Bush MUST be re-elected. Really take a look at what Kerry and Edwards are saying. They are putting out the overued typical Democrat/ liberal scare the elderly, young, and minority groups. What have the Democrats done for them except create programs that keep these misguided people dependant on the government. Over many years, people have been falsely told that government has all the answers to thr problems and that it will take care of them. I just hope everyone wakes up before it's too late. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

[Bellyache]

National Security should be #1!

[No Affiliation]

NATIONAL SECURITY?

After driving down Hoeseblock Road in Farmingville any morning you will see that THERE IS NO NATIONAL SECURITY there is an invasion of illegal aliens that President Bush WANTS TO REWARD FOR BREAKING THE LAW.
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Chrysler pt platform specifications (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Chrysler_PT_platform)

[John Birch]

Allowing Halliburton to overcharge the Pentagon
Staying home from funerals (would 550 of them cut into his campaigning time?)
Veterans Benefits Cuts
No good Iraq exit strategy
Lies about WMD's
Dodging the North Korea menace
Ignoring the Iran menace
Leaving Afghanistan undone (no oil)
Sucking up to Saudi Arabia (home to 15 of the 9/11 terrorists)
Homeland Security infighting
No good harbor safety plan
Hasn't come through on security funding promises
Lip service paid to first responders
Open borders
etc., etc., etc.

Again I ask, "Who needs Democrats?"

Do not re-elect GW Shrub. He's making it easy for a 9/11 repeat.

[Kerry the antihero]

Bush is at fault for immigration invasion, thats true. He listens too much to America's chamber of commerce's.
He has kept us safe for the most part since that national tragedy occurred on 9/11/01. A day that will also live in infamy.
Kerry has not voted for all of the weapons programs that have made us strong these last 20 years.
Senator Clinton didn't go to pay respects at area funerals from 9/11 terrorist attack.
Democrats are also in favor of open borders because of thr policy of letting in more minorities from thr immigration law of 1965. Most minorities when naturalized citizen vote Democrat.
Kerry the Democrats hero served 4 months in Nam and admitted to killing civilians.
Kerry said he saw his own fellow soldiers committing atrocities which turns out never took place.
Kerry supported anti war protestors who were also anti American military and socialist in nature.
Kerry gave comfort and aide to the communists by destroying the morale of the US fighting men/women in the armed services.
Kerry is the antithesis of hero.

[Bellyache]

"National Security SHOULD be #1, I didn't say it was!

[midgetbones]

the weak.
________
Hash Honey Oil (http://trichomes.org/hashish/honey-oil)

[No Affiliation]

When you have open borders and a large number of illegal aliens on U.S. soil, is it possible to have national security?
________
Weed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWdazX4KGzw)

[into tommorrow]

Allowing Halliburton to overcharge the Pentagon

(should have taken money from Chinese gov't, i guess)

Staying home from funerals (would 550 of them cut into his campaigning time?)

(I didn't see Kerry there ther. no pres. should go, and he does recognize thr and thr families sacrifice. bush has brought a war from our soil to thrs, they still want to hit here but it is just a little more difficult.)

Veterans Benefits Cuts

(sad but true, but even the Dem's love to cut from the vets, if you are a vet you know.)

No good Iraq exit strategy

(exit strategy=clean it up and reduce,. Iraq to important to leave completely.)


Lies about WMD's

(by bush, clinton, the u.n. France, Russia, Germany, NATO, Iraq.... who? all the stories were the same before the war)


Dodging the North Korea menace

(you do mean mess, Clinton'S i don't want to wake up mess. n. Korea knows we have a new strategy. i suppose they are one of Kerry's forgn gov't friends who want bush gone.)


Ignoring the Iran menace

(IRAN IS LOOKING MORE UNCOMFORTABLE TO ME, are they another friend of elect Kerry.)


Leaving Afghanistan undone (no oil)

(no exit strategy here ther and more work is bng done, not bush's fault press see's no grab onto headlines.)


Sucking up to Saudi Arabia (home to 15 of the 9/11 terrorists)

(Saudis don't want bush as pres and are going to keep hiking oil to disrupt our economy so Kerry gets in. bush makes them nervous.)


Homeland Security infighting

(good. no project should be a rubber stamp if you want success)


No good harbor safety plan

(yet)


Hasn't come through on security funding promises

(tom Dashile want's more for his high risk state than he want's to give NY. this will level off in time.)


Lip service paid to first responders

(?) (do you mean like the sensitivity sen Clinton had when handed a NY firefighter helmet and would not place it on her head because it would mess up her hair.)



Open borders

(i agree. and i add exporting u.s. companies, importing illegal immigrants to lower American workers wages...both parties are equally guilty. it is PC you know.)


etc., etc., etc.

Again I ask, "Who needs Democrats?"

Do not re-elect GW Shrub. He's making it easy for a 9/11 repeat.

(didn't the attacks on NY launch from the baby killer Kerry's state. do you really want to give him a country)

[John Birch]

...with eyes wide shut.

Bush is a disaster. He lied during his campaign. There is no compassionate conservative.

Arguing the Clintons and Gores shows a closed,very small mind. They are gone. Good riddance. And (I hate to say this), refusing to muss one's hair and cutting funding for 1st responders are two VERY different levels of insulting.

Argue Bush's legacy. It sucks. Mexifornia beckons on a national level. Social Security for seniors fails. Saudi backs Bush. He helped them leave the USA on 9/11 fer chrissakes. Iraq and Afghanistan are money pits. We, our children and thr children will pay for out-of-control spending beyond war-on-terror needs.

Is the world a safer place? Ask our allies, the Spaniards in Madrid, this morning.

Open your eyes on the Bush legacy. You're blind if you don't recoil in horror.

[who will protect us]

If Bush is doing a bad job then who? Kerry?
Immigration and diversity is taking it's toll on Europe and America.

Until Moslems can worship peacefully and with tolerance for others, KEEP ALL MOSLEMS OUT OF AMERICA AND EUROPE.

[immigration]

Disclaimer: I’m nther a registered Rep or Dem, but making law abiding citizens criminals with gun bans, ignoring forgn invasions (illegals), and a liberal media that lies, lies, lies bother me too.

Why don’t we pool our money to offer a cash reward for any information about newspaper editors or writers who are taking bribes to give favorable coverage to thr "special friends" and unfavorable coverage to anyone who hasn't "greased the wheels"...
and
a cash reward for any information about government officials anywhere in NY State who are taking bribes . These guys are rats, and will sell out to the highest bidder just as they do now. Since real estate in NYC is way more expensive thr zoning boards have more incentive to be corrupt, so we’ll get more dems zoning boards in jail than reps statewide. Yippie!

There are roughly an equal number of fiefdoms in NY between the demoblicans and the republocrats, so this can be a bipartisan effort. Since you'all are so committed to principle, I'll let you publicly ask the party leaders on both sides to make a contribution.

Once enough people throw the reward meat on the floor, watch the dogs rip one another apart trying to get it. The newspaper whores willfinally do smear jobs on one another, and the pols will sell each other out to the highest bidder just as they do now - only then it will be in the public interest instead of against it.

If rank and file conservatives in the Rep party want smaller gov't this is the REAL way to get it. NOTHING else has worked. I think the conservatives on this board will agree.

If rank and file conservatives in the Rep party and rank and file liberals in the Dem party want good gov’t this is the REAL way to get it. NOTHING else has worked. I think even the BS posters (dems stirring things up disguised as Rep posters) here will agree. Go back and warn your sellout party leaders, the REAL conservatives are on the march. They should ___ thr pants.

(I’ll post this elsewhere, but if you like it please spread the word.)

[tinkles]

ya know what, some things you say appear to be true
that must be why I feel this way.