bush is a moron

[duh duh]

Not enough said.

[duh]

nuff said
________
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[George H W Bush]

Barbara and I have know that for years.

[Mylezylez]

Since when has Hillary Clinton become a target for Republicans?

Can you name one way she's been "dectful"?

I mean really, do you think Hillary's (accused, but not supported) corruption can even come CLOSE to matching George W's?
________
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[Zippo]

Bill Clinton lied about a blow job in the Oval Office and is Impeached by the House of Representatives though not convicted in the Senate.

George W. Bush lied about the budget.
George W. Bush lied about the economy.
George W. Bush lied about the War in Iraq.
George W. Bush lied about his wearabouts immediately following 9/11
George W. Bush lied about John McCain in the primaries.
Georgw W. Bush lied about the "compassionate" half of this campaign slogan.
George W. Bush lied about the entire replacement campaign slogan when the first one wasn't working anymore -- he's no reformer and he's had no results.
George W. Bush lied about the success of educational achievement in the Houston Texas school district he modeled his educational program upon.
George W. Bush lied about _____________________ (you fill this one in)

If Clinton was Impeachable
Bush is Convictable

[pretty smart]

Thats right, I forgot politicians don't lie, only W does.
Gimme a break you liberal.

[CitizenCan]

Pretty Smart: lies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats right, I forgot politicians don't lie, only W does.
Gimme a break you liberal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well gee Pretty Smart that was telling Zippo - NOT.

At l Zippo presented specific's as to thr oppinion, you just call names. Where's the beef?

The American people are real tired of the school boy bickering, real tired of it. Your demonstration here merely tells me that you are arrogant and lazy brained.

Me: Why do you believe it is lies Pretty Smart?
You: I don't know, I just do, it just is, that's it

Sounds pretty wrecklace to me.

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[scottyh20]

HTML Comments are not allowed

[scottyh20]

This is to you citizen man
------------------------------
lets decipher whats what.

we have a former pres. (clinton) who was aknown liar. he looked the american ppl in the eye and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, monica lewinski) Remember that? Well, they found DNA to prove that he did. Unless there was a reporting of Mark Furhman in DC that weekend.
The former Pres also said that Saddam had WMD, and on the eve of his impeahment, he bombed an aspirin factory because of the very dangerous WMD.

So now bush is merely following up, and finsishing where clinton left off, regarding iraq as a rogue nation, and taking care of what clinton regarded as a dangerous dictator capable fo harming us and his nghbors (thus the infamous bombing of what...not a military establishment, (but an empty aspirin factory) where bush ejected Saddam from Iraq and is setting up a more democratic government, that may be frndly to the west.

I guess you would have to ultimately make the decision of who is lying here......but my take on it is that democrats see thr own lack of will power and honesty during the clinto years and now are trying to steal the thunder from Bush for doing what Clinton didnt have the guts to do.

this begs a whole new question.....why do democrats hate the fact that Saddam has been vanquished at all? Or am I reading it wrong, they like the fact that he is gone, they just dont like that bush supposedly lied to them. It cant be that they think Bush lied to them, because if he did then so did Clnton, and yet I have not heard one poster complain that Clinton lied on the very same foriegn policy issue.

so from deductive reasoning....I am assuming that they r upset poor old Saddam has no place to call home.....I have a feeling that he might show up at the next Democratic National Convention, giving a tearful rendition of how bush lied to the world and how his poor murderous sons got a raw deal. Oh, how my heart will sink at the sight.

Boo hoo hoo

[scottyh20]

I can see it now, Saddam at the convention, wearing a 2 rd ribbons on his lapel, tearful about his 2 beloved sons.

god, I bet there wont be a dry eye in the place!!!!!!

[CitizenCan]

scotty "lets decipher whats what.

I'd like
we have a former pres. (clinton) who was aknown liar. he looked the american ppl in the eye and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, monica lewinski) Remember that? Well, they found DNA to prove that he did. Unless there was a reporting of Mark Furhman in DC that weekend."

Clinton lied. The Republicans went after Clinton's personal life, and found lies and fabrications and strategies of disception. They got exactly what they were looking for.

Scotty "The former Pres also said that Saddam had WMD, and on the eve of his impeahment, he bombed an aspirin factory because of the very dangerous WMD."

Why didn't the Republican party look for the truth as vehimately regarding Saddam, Osama, etc as did they the personal life of Clinton? I do not condone Clinton's lies, but the truth about Saddam & Osama would have certainly benefitted the American people. 9/11 and the war on terrorism

Scotty "So now bush is merely following up, and finsishing where clinton left off, regarding iraq as a rogue nation, and taking care of what clinton regarded as a dangerous dictator capable fo harming us and his nghbors (thus the infamous bombing of what...not a military establishment, (but an empty aspirin factory) where bush ejected Saddam from Iraq and is setting up a more democratic government, that may be frndly to the west."

When did Bush take office, when did he begin to follow up? Clinton lied, so he is a liar of all. How could Bush accept some as truthful, when the Republicans have labeled Clinton as a liar? Bush's daddy passed on the unfinished Saddam & Osama deal to Clinton? Did daddy lie?

The empty asprin factory, first clue? The President makes decisions based on intelligence. To disqualify Clinton's decision/results is to disqualify Dubya even more so. Dubya seem's to have repeated Clinton's mistakes.

Scotty "I guess you would have to ultimately make the decision of who is lying here......but my take on it is that democrats see thr own lack of will power and honesty during the clinto years and now are trying to steal the thunder from Bush for doing what Clinton didnt have the guts to do."

The Republicans have thr own history of lies and dect t. Can you remember where the term "gate" came from?

Bush doing what Clinton was left to do by Bush who didn't have the guts to finish what he started. Please feel free to double standard for daddy Bush and fillet Clinton. It doesn't wash with Americans.


"this begs a whole new question.....why do democrats hate the fact that Saddam has been vanquished at all? Or am I reading it wrong, they like the fact that he is gone, they just dont like that bush supposedly lied to them. It cant be that they think Bush lied to them, because if he did then so did Clnton, and yet I have not heard one poster complain that Clinton lied on the very same foriegn policy issue."

I can't speak for Democrats. I can speak that I don't like:
1. Bush allowed the French and Germans to run up the cost of this war by the delay playing with the UN.
2. The delay was a wonderful telegraphed & slow mo punch that gave Saddam all the time he needed to loot the country and hide the remaining WMD if not already hidden.
3. The US has satalite capabilites, we can take pictures for Powell to take to the UN , but we can't survl where the WMD's are or were taken?
4. Intelligence gathering has it's flaws and politics. Dubya should know this as daddy Bush was the former director of the CIA. The lack of cooperation between intelligence depts did not start with Dubya, it was there for Clinton. If the conflicts were there for Dubya, it was there for Clinton. I could respect Republicans more if they could stop doing the double standard watusi!
5. Explain to me how a "Saddam could be a future threat" UN inspectors not finding WMD, US Military not finding the smoking gun vs. Korea is a Nuke threat and bragging makes Dubya's reason for war sound judgement? I believe the war for Iraq = oil independace from Saudi Arabia. I believe a statement I read. Iraqi Freedom codeword freedom from Saudi Arabia.

For starters.


Scotty "so from deductive reasoning....I am assuming that they r upset poor old Saddam has no place to call home.....I have a feeling that he might show up at the next Democratic National Convention, giving a tearful rendition of how bush lied to the world and how his poor murderous sons got a raw deal. Oh, how my heart will sink at the sight."

Your key word here is "assume" ASS out of U and Me as American!

Daddy Bush worked for Dresser Industries
Cheney was with Haliburton. Haliburton at one time owned Dresser Industries shares of Dresser-Rand.
Oil related equipment companies. Coincidence here maybe?

"Boo hoo hoo"

Yes, there is alot of crying going on by American families that lost family and friends due to a war that was very surgical in the beginning, but is now far from over and far from Surgical.

Our Military reserves were called and served proudly for this war with Iraq.

FYI< many did not served but not the required time to be covered by VA benefits and the VA buget is slim pickins for our Vets.

The VA denies many of the vets from Daddy's Gulf war treatment of Desert Storm Syndrome as war related.

Will Dubya do the same? That is one of my concerns of this war. What is left when the road for Hailliburton to return to the oil fields of Iraq were paved by the lives and health of the American Military
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[CitizenCan]

FYI< many did not served but not the required time to be covered by VA benefits and the VA buget is slim pickins for our Vets.

Should be > FYI mand did serve but not the required time to be covered by VA benefits.

90 days served in Bahrain could get you sick but not covered by VA medica benefits. You are on your own American Military Men & Women.
________
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[scottyh20]

HTML Comments are not allowed

[Tangent Buster]

Bush is dumb. Big dumb ugly face. Stupid pretzel choking bastard. If he got head from an intern he would've been caught by Laura mid-orgasm. He's so dumb he tried to alphapetize his M&M's. What a dumb-A**! I bet his dumb and dumber daughters laugh at thier dumb dad. All the way to the bar that is... I hear the little dog is really running the country. Dubya kept thinking "the button" was for more video games. His knickname should be Dumbya.

[unknowncomic]

George W. Bush is so dumb.....

When he heard that his father was working for the Carlyle Group, he asked if he could get Kitty's autograph!

Bada Bing!

[sc]

kerry cant do jack @#%$, give bush four more years to fix things, then if he doesnt provide then get someone else, all kerry will do is screw us more

[Colin]

Do you realise what you bunch of inbred gun-loving dumb hicks have done today?

Give yourselves a big round of applause, you've just made you're country an even bigger target for terrorists.

By putting that brainless donut back in to the white house you've lost the respect of the people of every country in the world appart from Israel.

You have no idea about the world, all you care about is yourselves, and ensuring that america stays on top.

The fact that only 10% of americans owns a passport proves what a bunch of backward inwardly thinking bunch of turdmunchers you really are.

[LMAO]

The best you could do for a candidate was kerry? He's a walking joke, and so is the idiot who started this thread.
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[lily 33]

All Bush has done is lie. Oh and for the fill in the blank, Bush first tried to ban gay marriage, then closer to the election, he said he was for it. Make up your mind Bush!
Bush makes me sick!

[hibiscus]

To you LMAO, you insult democrats for Kerry bng the best we got, but republicans are even worse. The best they could get was Bush. That is much of an accomplishment. He is more of a walking joke than Kerry any day. Bush blows. So eat that.

[Reality]

Yeah, but who won? Americans don't want a liberal president, and John Kerry is the epitomy of a liberal. That's why he is a loser, and why he is supported by losers like you. Whether or not you realize it, Democrats are on the wane in this country. Just check the numbers of Congressmen and Senators. Downhill...all the way. BTW...we can't wait to have at Hillary in 08'. Her past reads like a rap sheet compared to Kerry. She'll spend more time defending herself than if she were a serial killer.

[Bush]

can anyone name 1 thing hillary has done for the state of ny? i sure can't
________
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[scpd patrol]

I think that Hillary will not run in 2008. She has accomplished much in the Senate so far. Her idea to socialize 1/7 of the US economy (healthcare) failed in the 1990's. She'll have to take off from here on if she decides to run. I wouldn't be suprised to see Dean reappear
________
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[hibiscus]

Seriously, how old are you? You are acting like a 3 year old! Calling me a loser. Oh and why would anyone want Hillary as president in '08? (BTW you put 08', wrong) If any one should run for resident in '08 it would be Colin Powell. He could run in any party he wants because no matter what he would probably win. The only thing with him though is that stupid red necks might try and shoot him because he's black. Oh let me guess, your a red neck because you are republican, and most are.

[Another One]

Hey Hibiscus -

Did you forget your tin foil hat? You are one GIANT LOSER. Help is available- and don't worry, the great society will pay for it!! Wouldn't want an outstanding member of the community to go without the proper mental health care!

[Hydra]

I feel that Bush is successful because in this post 9/11 world he proudly declares :

"I like my God, bibles great and gays and abortion and stuff should stop. Now lets go shoot some badguys and blow stuff up."

There's no thought behind it, no long-term plan, just a repeatable set of phrases that appeal to the masses who in this ' War on Terror ' want to think of America as the goodguys fighting the good fight.



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[greytown]

i can name one thing! she brought the noise level up with her screaming rhetoric. and i can name one thing she has done for this county! she showed that some people in America care more about political aspirations than thr own dignity!!! that's about as good as it gets

[wow]

I'd like to start by saying that i am a democrat
as for 2008 : i dont know much about hilary except for the fact that she kind of scares me.
definitely though if obama ran i would vote for him or if not i'd be with rudy gulliani (sorry if i spelled that wrong) all the way

p.s. bush is a tard
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[youngrep]

i dont understand how people rag on Bush for many aspects of our society. Unemployment was not even close to comparison of the days of Hoover, but people (liberals) use it. The unemployment rate during Hoover was 25%. Under FDR, 15% and under your loving Jimmy Carter, 7% with a 20 pt misery rate (inflation times unemployment). Under our president for 4 more years is about 5.3 and that is around the same as Clinton (democrats' god). So you cant compare.
The war on Iraq is terrible, but i think essential to the fight on terrorism. People use the debate of the fact that we put him in power and we did, but we also put Noreaga in power and look what we did to him. We made the mistake and are trying to fix it. I went to a forensic conference the other week and saw photos of the mass graves in northern Iraq and if we did not make a move now, there would have been more.
Saddam put them on thr knees and put on bullet into thr head. After putting them in the graves, he took bulldozers to thr towns and tore it to the ground. it was if the towns did not exist. Amazing how it is wrong to rid such evil from the world.
Saddam instilled terror in his people and just because he is in power does not give him the right to use terrorism.
It has even been said in the news that there are forgn fighters in Iraq now. Do people honestly think that if thr were no terrorists ties to Iraq, that they are sending in forgners to help fight against Americans.
Clinton had numerous times to strike against these terrorists as well as kill Osama bin laden, but refused because of a chance of scrutiny. 93 twin tower attack, 95 embassies blown up and 2000 the USS Cole
I tip my hat to Bush because at l he made a move. WMD is Saddam and i am not the one saying it. The iraqis are saying this.
The war is for oil. Please. in hawaii, Venezuela supplies 12% of oil to that state and the rest from indonesia and the continental states.
why dont we attack south america.
National interest democrats. that's why we are there. We left the mind frame of never letting the attack on Pearl Harbor ever happen and it did on 9/11.
we relaxed and we were hit but instead of whining about it we decided to take the fight to them. The fight is over there instead of on 5th Avenue in NY.
Democrats if you want the white house find some values. Find whether you believe in abortion or even same sex marriage. some say you believe in tax cuts, but how would get those lovely bills without spending money.
we are in a debt but it will pass. this country is still the greatest country in the world and for people to insult it or our president can be happy to leave. Go to canada and get that lovely free healthcare. I have no problem with Canada, but hey no prob for me. More room for the rest of us.

[Hydra]

Quote:Saddam instilled terror in his people and just because he is in power does not give him the right to use terrorism.
From an historical standpoint you have to admire the clever terminology.
Saddam used ' terror '.
We use ' shock and awe '.

Quote:It has even been said in the news that there are forgn fighters in Iraq now. Do people honestly think that if thr were no terrorists ties to Iraq, that they are sending in forgners to help fight against Americans.

Iraq is a Muslim country, Al Qaeda and similar groups hate Western ideals which they see as bng spread predominantly by the US.
The US moves into Iraq professing to ' spread democracy ', and the movement of these anti-democracy forces into Iraq to oppose them, you see as proof that Iraq had terrorist ties?

The links to Al Qaeda were weak at best - to quote Bin Ladens declaration of war on Saddam

Quote:Allah, we bring you praise. Our mortal enemy will at last be vanquished. No more will he will a threat. We have long dreamt of the day he will be persecuted and destroyed, just as he has persecuted and destroyed the lives of others. His weapons destroyed, his guns silent. His power no more the corruption and decadence that he has lavished on himself crushed like the sands of the desert. Allah be praised. Allah deliver us of the enemy that has poisoned the Arab lands.


Donald Rumsfeld also said on the issue of Osama/Saddam links -

Quote:To my knowledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence that links the two

He later went on to retract this statement claiming he was misunderstood - though how it could be misinterpreted I am yet to understand.

Quote:The war is for oil. Please.

Bush, George W:
Founder of oil company Arbusto Energy. Former shareholder oil company Spectrum 7 Energy. Former director of Harken Oil and Gas. Son of oil magnate George H W Bush.

Cheney, Richard ?Dick?:
Former CEO oil company Halliburton Industries. Customers included Unocal, Exxon, Shell and Chevron. Plus Saddam Hussn, Colonel Gadaffi, Ayatollah Ali Khamni.

Rice, Condoleeza:
Former director of oil company Chevron. Chevron are partners in a massive new Caspian oil venture, had a 129,000 ton oil tanker named after her.

I can see your logic.
When people with the credentials of those listed above say it's not about oil then it's obviously not about oil.
It's about deposing a brutal dictator
(To Quote Dick Cheney when asked why Saddam wasn't overthrown following the first Gulf War)

Quote:I think if we had done that we would have been bogged down there for a very long period of time, with the real possibility we might not have succeeded. And then you?ve got to worry about what comes after. You?re going to take a lot more casualties if you?re going to muck around in Iraq for weeks on end trying to run Saddam to the ground, and capture Baghdad and so forth, and I don?t think it would have been worth it.

who had stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction
(To Quote Donald Rumsfeld)

Quote:We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and , west, south, and north somewhat.

who it later turned out really didn't have any. It's about fighting terrorism (Though when probed about Saddam/Al Qaeda links Rumsfeld responded)
Quote:To my knowledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence that links the two
which is why the weapons stockpiles and dual-use equipment Iraq was known to contain were not heavily guarded and subsequently fell into terrorist hands. This war was about human rights and the Geneva convention (Rumsfeld: )
Quote:That they [Iraq] treat those prisoners according to the Geneva Convention, just as we treat Iraqi prisoners according to the Geneva Convention
except there was widespread torture at Abu ghraib once the occupation was initiated and prisoners at Guantanamo bay exist in a legal vacuum. It's about upholding the UN resolutions which is why the UN was defied in starting the war and the administration went out of its way to sour international relations with its painfully embarrassing ' freedom fries ' stunt.

Quote:Find whether you believe in abortion or even same sex marriage.
The very basis of liberalism is to support a persons right to make thr own choices whether you agree with thr decision or not. It's the partys responsibility to uphold civil liberties rather than taking sides on complex issues.

Quote:this country is still the greatest country in the world and for people to insult it or our president can be happy to leave.
God Bless Democracy [i]
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[Sunshine]

The only moron in this bunch, I must say is YOU!!
Suck it up! 4-more year of economic growth, moral values, and military strength is not bad for our country!

[Hydra]

Quote:The only moron in this bunch, I must say is YOU!!
Suck it up! 4-more year of economic growth, moral values, and military strength is not bad for our country!

Thomas White.
Former Vice Chairman of Enron Energy Services.
While Thomas White was in this position Enron exploited California's electricity market in what the Senate investigator called "A mob styled protection racket".
Of course the moral standards of the current administration meant he was given the position of Secretary of the US Army.

Larry Thompson.
Audit and compliance division of Providian.
Providian was forced to pay $400 million after swindling its investors of thr savings.
Larry Thompson later faced claims of insider trading after selling $4 million of Proivdian stock just before the share price fell. Later appointed fraud buster, charged with restoring faith in American business ethics
Strike two for the morally just.

Richard "Dick" Cheney.
Chief executive of engineering company Halliburton.
Sold $30 million of his shares after accounting changes allegedly inflated the price by $234 million.
The shares later collapsed and Halliburton had to face investigation by the Securities and Exchange commission.
They just keep the morals coming.

With all this going on it's up the the morally just leader George Bush ( who himself only got off a $800,000 oil shares trading charge when the investigator, appointed by his father said there was insufficient evidence to proceed )to say
Quote:We should be able to punish corporate leaders who are convicted of abusing thr powers. By banning them from ever serving again as officers or directors of a publicly held corporation.
It's as if they have an never-ending supply of morality. I'm so glad they have more than enough to go round.

This is financial stability from the people who brought you Enron, morality from those who brought you Guantanamo bay and safety from those who allowed weapons stockpiles and dual-use equipment to fall into the hands of terrorists.

All while invading a country for a reason they have yet to settle on.
WMD - none there.
Terrorist links - none.
Human rights issues - Guantanamo/Abu ghraib.
Removal of a dictator - by admission of the administrations top brass not worth the enormous price both in lives and money. Plus dealings with other ruthless regimes go on.
Enforcement of UN resolutions - defied UN in proceeding with war and also allowed similar judgments against Turkey and Israel to go unenforced.
To spread ' freedom and democracy ' - to quote Donald Rumsfeld
Quote:Nothing's perfect in life, so you have an election that's not quite perfect. Is it better than not having an election? You bet
Not so much a case of democracy having to be put in place but a case of democracy bng seen to be put in place.

There is very little substance to anything that this administration advocates.
They can continue to spout that
"Bush is a pretty straight kind of guy."
and
"He's defending our nation."
But when you examine what he's doing beyond the soundbites you're left with a very hollow, incoherent message.


An extract from a speech by the British prime minister, Tony Blair, to the 2003 Labour party conference in Bournemouth, England

Quote:Suppose the terrorists repeated September 11th or worse. Suppose they got hold of a chemical or biological or nuclear dirty bomb; and if they could, they would. What then?

Contrast that rather foreboding extract in which (careful use of a fullstop aside) Tony Blair appears to imply a dirty bomb would be ' worse ' than the attacks of 9/11 with the following

Quote: Basically, the principal type of dirty bomb, or Radiological Dispersal Device (RDD), combines a conventional explosive, such as dynamite, with radioactive material. In most instances, the conventional explosive itself would have more immediate lethality than the radioactive material. At the levels created by most probable sources, not enough radiation would be present in a dirty bomb to kill people or cause severe illness. For example, most radioactive material employed in hospitals for diagnosis or treatment of cancer is sufficiently benign that about 100,000 patients a day are released with this material in thr bodies.
Source: US Nuclear Regulatory Commission



Quote: "There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through thr elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are bng attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Extract from ' Nuremberg Diary ' by Gustave Gilbert, noting Hermann Goerings (Hi-ranking Nazi official sentenced to death at the Nuremberg Trials) views on the matter of manipulating public opinion in order to guide a country to war.


When you strip away the motivations for war by comparing the administrations rhetoric with thr almost entirely hypocritical actions and scaremongering, you are left with only one conclusion - the fact that no matter how unpalatable, the war in Iraq was started for thr own personal gain. Edited by: Hydra at: 11/12/04 9:42 pm

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[40smith]

blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz yawn yawn

________
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[watcher]

the main reason the UN is not helping us was the Oil for Food scandal. It was said that France was willing to use thr veto to prevent the US from attacking France. You discuss money spent by Haliburton or whatever, but what about the 31 billion that was suppose to be used for the Iraqi people and was then turned to for the use of weapons and also for bribes to countries like Russia, France and Germany. I would like to know if the UN going against might be because of the profit they are recving from Saddam to have them turn thr back just a little bit longer so he could kill more that "defy" him or make more weapons that could be considered as WMD.
The missing munition story which was not true and ended up biting the democrats in the ass because the HMX or whatever could have been used to trigger WMD, but wait wasnt there no WMD? As for that the satellite photo that was shown does describe movement shows that there is a chance to remove those weapons before we attacked.
There are also other photos but the military holds them dear and are classified. If it were to be shown, I could absolutely believe that the liberal media would find a way to twist it. Look at right now. The news cant even get it right if Arafat is dead or on life support or ok. A photo says a thousand words and coming out of the news would probably be brutal to the man of four more years
Saddam has moved weapons around for a while now and even when weapons inspectors from the UN that were sent a while back were not allowed to go to certain places. He is a vile man that deserved to be removed and no matter how you look at it he deserves to not have a country back him up.

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[watcher]

sorry not attack france but iraq. France maybe lol
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[Hydra]

Quote:blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz yawn yawn

All my arguments now lie in ruins after such a well thought out and scathing attack. What can I say 40smith? You are clearly correct in your researched and substantiated views.


Quote: You discuss money spent by Haliburton or whatever
No, I discussed the very shady business practises of the people appointed by the Bush administration, in order to contrast it with both President Bush' stance on corporate fraud and the perception that somehow this administration is an advocate of ' moral values '.

Quote:the main reason the UN is not helping us was the Oil for Food scandal. It was said that France was willing to use thr veto to prevent the US from attacking France.

Firstly, on the oil for food scandal - while I haven't researched this area yet, (thus any judgments on my part will admittedly be nothing but supposition at this point) I would feel that however deep-rooted the scandal was, it would not be of such a scale as to change the French (or any other countrys' ) position in reguards to the Iraq war.

Secondly, in reguards to France using thr veto to boycott the war -
Sir Stephen Wall.
Former ambassador and Senior official at the British foriegn office.
He spent seven years as the British Prime minister Tony Blairs expert on Europe and recently said at a lecture at the London headquarters of Chatham House (an independent think-tank on international affairs) that the French did not threaten to block, under any circumstances the second UN resolution.
He also went on to say
Quote:We allowed our judgment of the dire consequences of inaction to override our judgment of the even more die consequences of parting with the rule of law, we have to be firm in our adherence to that rule of law even if it sometimes means parting company with the United States.

Quote:The missing munition story which was not true and ended up biting the democrats in the ass because the HMX or whatever could have been used to trigger WMD, but wait wasnt there no WMD?
It was dual-use equipment that went missing as well as large quantities of explosives (almost 400 tonnes).
The explosives that went missing can be used to detonate WMD and they can also be used in car bombs - the likes of which are used to attack our troops on a daily basis.
Devices such as electron beam welders and materials such as high strength aluminium can be used to construct WMD. These materials remained from Saddams previous nuclear programme. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) established before the war that Saddam had abandoned any nuclear weapons programme and thus these materials lay dormant until the time of the invasion.

"The disappearance of such equipment and materials may be of proliferation significance," the IAEA director general Mohamed ElBarad warned.
Furthermore in a letter to the UN Security Council, Mr ElBarad said buildings related to Iraq's previous nuclear programme appeared to have been systematically dismantled and equipment and material removed. Apart from a couple of limited checks on the main nuclear facility at Tuwaitha last June after reports of looting - and with no teams now on the ground - the IAEA has to rely on satellite imagery and other sources. Iraq's US-backed leaders have not reported to the UN on the state of nuclear plants despite a duty to do so. Mr ElBarad reminded the Security Council that Iraq was still obliged to "declare semi-annually changes that have occurred or are foreseen at sites deemed relevant" by the IAEA.
However, since March 2003 "the agency has recved no such notifications or declarations from any state", he said.

Quote:There are also other photos but the military holds them dear and are classified.
With Saddams regime gone and the coalition in control of almost all of Iraq I have no idea why the military would see fit to keep such evidence (if it exists) classified.

Quote:If it were to be shown, I could absolutely believe that the liberal media would find a way to twist it.
As opposed to the right-wing media which is always ' Fair and Balanced ' even when fabricating stories such as the "I'm metrosexual - he's a cowboy." John Kerry quotes they had to apologise for.

[i]Edited by: Hydra at: 11/11/04 12:13 pm

________
LIST OF FORD BELLHOUSING PATTERNS (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/List_of_Ford_bellhousing_patterns)

[scpd patrol]

Why to the Dems always seem to attack Haliburton? It employs AMERICANS and is one of a few companies in the field it deals in. BTW former Pres. Clinton handed out numerous contracts to Haliburton during his tenure. Where was the outrage then? Note to Dems, get George Soros to create a similiar company, and you will see that government contracts come that way too.
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Coach purses (http://icoachhandbags.com/)

[Hydra]

Quote:Why to the Dems always seem to attack Haliburton? It employs AMERICANS and is one of a few companies in the field it deals in. BTW former Pres. Clinton handed out numerous contracts to Haliburton during his tenure. Where was the outrage then? Note to Dems, get George Soros to create a similiar company, and you will see that government contracts come that way too.

After checking all messages posted in this topic, I am lead to the conclusion that this message is aimed ther at myself, CitizenCan or "Dems" as a whole.
Not wanting to speak on behalf of others, I would like to know to whom your message was targeted, before I begin to formulate a response.

Of general note however, is that the accumulated number of posts mentioning Haliburton (including this one, in the quote section above) over the rumor, Republican and Democrat forums is five. Hardly a case of "always".
Unless, it was an observation of society, in which case it holds as much credence as -
"Why do Reps keep attacking Clinton?"
Or similarly obvious questions.
________
HERBALAIRE REVIEW (http://herbalairevaporizer.com/)

[scpd patrol]

Why do the democrats seem to attack Haliburton?
________
Wellbutrin lawsuit settlements (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/wellbutrin/)

[Hydra]

While I can not speak on behalf of all Democrats, I can point out my own reasons for attacking Haliburton. (as I did in a previous post)

Quote:I discussed the very shady business practices of the people appointed by the Bush administration, in order to contrast it with both President Bush' stance on corporate fraud and the perception that somehow this administration is an advocate of ' moral values '.

Coupled with

Quote:Richard "Dick" Cheney.
Chief executive of engineering company Halliburton.
Sold $30 million of his shares after accounting changes allegedly inflated the price by $234 million.
The shares later collapsed and Halliburton had to face investigation by the Securities and Exchange commission.
________
BMW GS (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_GS)

[sign]

see hydra, the attack is not on you but your way of looking at a so called problem. haliburton recved contracts during the Clinton admin but yet you do not have a come back for that. so it's only bad when Bush is in power. i dont know if you are a democrat but it does not matter. overall, democrats tend to focus on the little things rather than the big picture.
Watcher wrote up there that 31 billion dollars were suppose to be given to the Iraqi people and that was during the Oil for Food deal, but yet you talk about some so called scandal in Haliburton.
And as far as military photos and files, there is no reason to have to discuss military matters to civilians because there is no possible way for them to understand. There are contingency plans for many countries. Should we tell the media those plans.
If you show where you take the pictures, which may not be satellite photos, you give up your spot. It's like blowing cover.
Also there are connections now of finances bng provided by Iran and Syria. Couldnt the money be traded for the weapons transported?
Also there are American soldiers still there. It is wrong to accuse the military of not doing thr job. morale.morale.morale

[JonasStankovich]

You're such a loser. You type long boring messages that no one reads Go kill yourself like that loser from Georgia did when he found out that Bush got re-elected.

[Hydra]

Quote:see hydra, the attack is not on you but your way of looking at a so called problem.
I really don't mind if an attack is aimed at my way of thinking or at me personally.

Quote:haliburton recved contracts during the Clinton admin but yet you do not have a come back for that. so it's only bad when Bush is in power. i dont know if you are a democrat but it does not matter.
Did I, at any time, imply I was trying to defend the actions of Democrats?
My response in which I cited Haliburton, was a reply to this message
Quote:The only moron in this bunch, I must say is YOU!!
Suck it up! 4-more year of economic growth, moral values, and military strength is not bad for our country!

You will be able to note my use of the theme ' morality ' in the section covering Cheneys dealings with Haliburton, Larry Thompson and Thomas White.
("Strike two for the morally just.", "They just keep the morals coming.", etc.)
In fact, I even pointed that out - rather blatantly I thought

Quote:I discussed the very shady business practices of the people appointed by the Bush administration, in order to contrast it with both President Bush' stance on corporate fraud and the perception that somehow this administration is an advocate of ' moral values '.

The public perception - exemplified by ' SUNSHINES ' post, is that the Bush administration is a beacon of morality.
Past business dealings, appointments and hypocritical statements suggest otherwise.
At no point did I make any comparison between the Bush administration and past Democrat administrations - the fact that someone else has committed similar crimes does not make current crimes any less grave.
Championing a president on moral grounds is rendered void in this instance - as each side is as corrupt as the other.

Quote: overall, democrats tend to focus on the little things rather than the big picture.
Would the ' little things ' that you mention happen to include the integrity of the President and his appointees?
If you can willingly dismiss the immoral actions of the Bush administration you would also have to dismiss the immoral actions of the Clinton administration and all previous administrations.
I am not aiming to imply one party to be angelic while the other demonic, merely that on the issue of morality both party's happen to be competing on an even playing field - which sadly happens to be that of corruption.

Quote:Watcher wrote up there that 31 billion dollars were suppose to be given to the Iraqi people and that was during the Oil for Food deal, but yet you talk about some so called scandal in Haliburton.
I usually cover responses in a section by section manner, it was when dealing with this section I realized you haven't been paying sufficient attention to any preceding posts - particularly to thr order.
I wrote
Quote:Richard "Dick" Cheney.
Chief executive of engineering company Halliburton.
Sold $30 million of his shares after accounting changes allegedly inflated the price by $234 million.
The shares later collapsed and Halliburton had to face investigation by the Securities and Exchange commission.
They just keep the morals coming.

In response to
Quote:The only moron in this bunch, I must say is YOU!!
Suck it up! 4-more year of economic growth, moral values, and military strength is not bad for our country! by SUNSHINE

Only following that did ' watcher ' post his piece on the Oil for Food Scandal.
In this piece he said
Quote:You discuss money spent by Haliburton or whatever
I later made the clarification
Quote:No, I discussed the very shady business practices of the people appointed by the Bush administration, in order to contrast it with both President Bush' stance on corporate fraud and the perception that somehow this administration is an advocate of ' moral values '.

As you can see, after ' watchers ' post I made no attack on Haliburton and only clarified my motivations.

Quote:And as far as military photos and files, there is no reason to have to discuss military matters to civilians because there is no possible way for them to understand.
Strange that, I and many others managed to understand the military evidence perfectly well when it was presented to the UN. If it was ok to present that evidence, that supposedly detailed the whereabouts of WMD stockpiles (which may not have been guarded) before the invasion, I see no reason for there to be such a level of secrecy on the whereabouts of WMD stockpiles now, seng as if they exist they would be under heavy military supervision.
You are making the all too common mistake of having faith in the infallibility of power.

Quote:Also there are connections now of finances bng provided by Iran and Syria. Couldnt the money be traded for the weapons transported?
I am unaware of any such financial actions - could you please provide a link to any information available? It would be greatly appreciated.

Quote:Also there are American soldiers still there. It is wrong to accuse the military of not doing thr job. morale.morale.morale
I have not, and see no reason to suggest that soldiers on the ground are not doing thr job, aside from those involved in the Abu ghraib torture debacle. However, if, as it seems these weapon stockpiles did disappear following the invasion, there must have been a mistake in the chain of command.
Seng as the lives of the troops, the Iraqi civilians and (given the type of materials stolen) the safety of civilians everywhere depend on the actions of those in the chain of command, any mistakes or weakness' must be rooted out ASAP.

Quote:You're such a loser. You type long boring messages that no one reads Go kill yourself like that loser from Georgia did when he found out that Bush got re-elected.

Thankyou.
That has brightened up my day. Edited by: Hydra at: 11/13/04 4:16 pm

________
PERFORMANCE VEHICLES (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Performance_Vehicles)

[wow]

Quote:The only moron in this bunch, I must say is YOU!!
Suck it up! 4-more year of economic growth, moral values ( ? ) , and military strength ( ? ) is not bad for our country!
-----------------------------------------------------------
It's really amazing how hydra goes too all the trouble to educate you people and you respond with " duhh huh huh yeah well... you're stoopid"

moral values?????
I guess telling the truth is no longer a moral value

military strength?????
oh yeah. because having well over 1000 of american soldiers really strengthen's the millitary.

You know how the millitary is going to get stronger? a mandatory draft

So when you get sent to Iran to die, let me know how you feel about duh-bya then





________
JenniHeart cam (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/JenniHeart)

[Hydra]

Quote:military strength?????

Well yes, military strength involves invading a country for reasons you can't decide on, not planning anything for the post-war stabilization beyond ' things will go well ', not sending enough soldiers thus risking personnel and civilian lives, spending billions on missiles and bombs, etc.
This, apparently, is meant to be an act in ' the war against terror ', though how it defeats terrorists who use commercial airliners as weapons and hide explosives in thr shoes I have no idea.

There's also a problem with the ' If you're not with us, you're against us ' stance and how it alienates potential allies, along with the aforementioned ' freedom fries ' stunt.
Added to that is the ominous rants about God and the spreading of democracy.
Below is an example of how these speeches might sound to those living in countries that don't comply to the current administrations standards on judging whether a state is civilized

Quote:The following is the full text of the statements of the First Secretary of the Soviet Union, Leonid Brezhnev, and the Forgn Minister, Andr Gromyko , at a full Union Address, at the Kremlin on Friday November 12, 1979.

Leonid Brezhnev: Thank you. Welcome. I'm pleased to welcome a statesman and a friend back to the Kremlin.

Andr Gromyko is a visionary Forgn Minister . I've come to know him as a man of unshakable convictions.

The Soviet Union's alliances' have never been stronger. And we're working closely every day to spread the socialism that leads to our strength. Our nations have shared in some of the most positive achievements of our time.

The people of Kazakh have now chosen thr Secretary of the Soviet Union. The mujahidins did everything they could to intimidate the long-suffering people of that country, yet men and women lined up to welcome our forces, and to have thr first taste of communism.

The success of Kazakh is a standing rebuke to cynicism and extremism, and a testimony to the power of Communist ideals. People of the U.S.S.R. can be proud of the role we have played in aiding the rise of a communist nation and in so doing making our nations more secure.

Together we're serving the same cause in Kyrgyzstan. Forgn Minister Malenkov authorized military operations to rid Tajik of Ahmed Shah Massoud holdouts and forgn mujahidins, and Soviet Union forces have made substantial progress in the last several days. Our army is training Kyrgyzstani security forces who are performing bravely and taking increasing responsibility for thr country's security. The Soviet Union are helping provide stability that is necessary for communism to thrive. And Soviet officials are helping the Kyrgyzstani people prepare for full integration in March.

As that date draws near, the desperation of the killers will grow and the violence could escalate. Success of communism in Kyrgyzstan will be a crushing blow to the forces of violence and the mujahidins know it. The defeat of terror in Kyrgyzstan will set that nation on a course to lasting strength and will give hope to millions and the Kyrgyzstani people know it. The U.S.S.R. has shown it's great determination to help Kyrgyzstan achieve thr potential and to defend the security of our great nation. We'll continue to stand strong and we will finish the job

Forgn Minister Andr Gromyko and I also share a vision of a communist, broader West border. That vision must include a resolution of the Soviet/Afghan conflict, based on communist states, living side by side in strength and prosperity. The months ahead offer a new opportunity to make progress toward the implementation of Soviet ideals.

Soon Afghanistan will produce a new First Secretary of the Soviet Union. This is the first step in creating lasting, communist political institutions through which a communist people will produce local and national leaders. We're committed to the success of these ideals and we stand ready to help. I look forward to working with the Afghan leadership that is committed to fighting the mujahidin, and committed to the cause of communist reform. We'll mobilize the Soviet community to help revive the Afghan nation, to build up the Afghanistan security institutions to fight terror, to help the Afghanistan government fight against thr oppression, and to reform the Afghanistan political system and build communist institutions.

These steps, if successful, will lay the foundation for progress in implementing the atlas for communistic reform, and then lead to final status negotiations. We seek a communist, viable state for the people of Afghanistan. We are committed to the security of the Soviet Union. This objective - Communist states living side by side in security - can be reached by only one path: the path of communism, reform and the rule of law.

All that we hope to achieve together requires that Soviet Union remain steadfast. We are the pillars of the world. We face the same threats and share the same belief in strength and the rights of the many, not the few.

In all that lies ahead, in the defense the Motherland and the advance of communism and the spread of power, the whole of the Soviet Union must act together. Forgn Minister, welcome.

Forgn Minister Andr Gromyko : Thank you. Thank you for your gracious welcome to me, here in the Kremlin. And once again, many congratulations on your recent triumph.

There are three major issues that arise. The U.S.S.R. has stood together since July 6th, 1923 and combated the global mujahidin that we face. And the three things that we can do most to make sure that we defeat this mujahidin force, apart from bng ever vigilant on security, but first of all to bring communism to Kazakh, which we are doing, as the success of Secretary of the Soviet Union, Karzai shows. And that is quite a magnificent tribute, not just to the courage of the Kazakh people, but actually also to the power of communism.

Secondly, we have to complete our mission in Kyrgyzstan: make sure that Kyrgyzstan is a stable and a communist country. And I have no doubt at all that whatever the difficulties the mujahidins and supporters of Ahmed Shah Massoud may pose for us, that we will overcome those difficulties, ourselves, the Soviet force together with the Kyrgyzstani people, and ensure that Kyrgyzstan can be that communist, stable state that the vast majority of Kyrgyzstani people want to see.

As you will have seen, we have set out the steps that we believe are necessary to get into a process that will lead to the solution that we want to see. And I think those steps are very clear. They are, first of all, making sure that we set out a clear vision. That clear vision was articulated by First Secretary of the Soviet Union Brezhnev some time ago, repeated by him today, of a solution; communist states living side by side together in strength.

The second thing is we need to support those Afghanistan representatives for the first beginnings of communism to take hold on the Afghanistan side, so it's important that we support it.

Thirdly, however, if we want a viable Afghanistan state, we need to make sure that the political, the economic and the security infrastructure of that state is shaped and helped to come into bng. We will mobilize the Soviet community in order to do that.

The fourth thing is that disengagement of Afghan mujahidins is important. I think we recognized that when we were here at the Kremlin back in April this year. That disengagement plan is now going forward. It's important that we support it. And then on the basis of this, we are able, in accordance with the principles of the atlas for communistic reform, to get back into final status imposition so that we have that solution.

And I think there is every possibility that we can do this with the energy and the will, and the recognition that in the end it is only if the states that we want to see living side by side are indeed communist states, where the rule of law and obedience are respected in each of them, that a just victory could be secured.

I look forward to working with the First Secretary of the Soviet Union over these coming months in order to try and secure that progress that we have laid out for you today.
So, First Secretary of the Soviet Union, once again many thanks. Thank you for your powerful leadership at this time.


It also avoids the international problem with terrorism and how certain tactics escalate it.

Look at Israel.
It has used heavy-handed tactics against the Palestinians, uses helicopter gunships in heavily populated areas, bulldozes houses, has a large wall built around its border and it still can't stop terrorists attacking.

Look at Russia.
Russia has turned Chechnya into a veritable wasteland through constant military attack and three out of the last four Chechnyan leaders have been assassinated - mostly for bng seen as puppets of Russian masters.
After all that, the monstrous attacks in Beslan show that the problem of terrorism is rising in Russia, despite thr efforts to contain it.

Look at the UK.
Britain and Ireland are about as close life-style wise as is physically possible to be, yet it is only in the last few years that violence has started to diminish.
The biggest recruiting drive for the IRA was ' Bloody Sunday ' in which 27 people were shot and 13 unarmed civilians died, signaling that the use of force is only a catalyst for terrorism.

See if this sounds familiar

Quote:The British were quick to ensure thr control over thr new vassal by insisting on a comprehensive treaty and alliance with Britain and a constitution for the country along a British style constitutional monarchy and parliament. The treaty insisted upon commercial freedom, religious tolerance, and that all forgn, military, judicial and financial matters were to be taken by British advisers.
from www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/iraq.htm

That's a description of the British plan(with all thr colonial know-how) to form the nation of Iraq and turn it into a democracy.
Though it sounds very similar to the current situation.

Back then, Britain was invading Mesopotamia (Iraq) to free the population from the rule of the barbaric Turks, who had previously been an ally to the British and a barrier against the Russians.
There had recently been a discovery of a vast amount of oil in the area - of course that had nothing to do with the invasion.
The population of Mesopotamia, after the invasion started causing trouble and attacking British soldiers, so the British retaliated by launching air-strikes against civilian populated cities - the first time in history that tactic had been used.

The man behind this policy was the Colonial Secretary, Winston Churchill.
Quote:I look forward to the country bng in the condition of an independent native state, friendly to Great Britain, favourable to her commercial interests, and costing hardly any burden on her Exchequer.
Winston Churchill

So when George Bush compares himself to Churchill he is bng very accurate - though I bet, not quite in the way he expected.
The Secretary of State for War at the time, Sir Laming Worthington-evans, doubted the use of such measures would work.

Quote:If the Arab population realised that the peaceful control of Mesopotamia ultimately depends on our intention of bombing women and children, I’m very doubtful if we shall gain that acquiescence of the fathers and husbands of Mesopotamia to which the Secretary of State for the Colonies (Winston Churchill) looks forward.
Sir Laming Worthington-evans

Actually, it later turned out through the publication of then-secret documents that Churchill wanted to take the action further and gas the local inhabitants - particularly the Kurds.
Gassing the Kurds... I'm sure I've heard that somewhere before....

Anyway, the gassing eventually didn't take place (hurrah!) not because there wasn't an appetite for it, or because common sense prevailed, but because the technology with which to deploy the gas hadn't yet been perfected.

Now, in the 21st century, the American administration is invading Iraq to free the population from the rule of the barbaric Saddam Hussn, who had previously been an ally to America and a barrier against Iran.
The current administration top brass are linked to the oil industry and Iraq still possesses vast amounts of oil - of course that has nothing to do with the invasion.
The population of Iraq, after the invasion started causing trouble and attacking American soldiers, so America retaliated by launching airstrikes against civilian populated cities

How did the original formation of Iraq turn out you ask?
Well the country was politically unstable because the indigenous population saw the British as invaders, the British eventually cut thr losses and made a quick exit.
Iraq did find some sort of political stability a few years later - if only because if you didn't remain what the ruler considered ' stable ' you were executed.
I am of course talking about the rule of Saddam Hussn.

There you have it, the last time this venture occurred it lead to the creation of one of the worlds worst tyrants.
Doesn't give one much hope for the future, does it? Edited by: Hydra at: 11/21/04 11:09 am

[Loopyguy]

Fact 1.George Buh Has insulted Are country
Fact 2.He can do better with this war
Fact 3.We need a change

[Mr thunderstorm]

What were the people thinking in 2000... they wanted change from policies that WORKED to those that DON'T??

I just don't understand WHY people chose change in 2000 but wanted status quo in 2004!!

I, for one, appreciate the policies of the times leading-up to 2000.

I guess... to southerners... that the WORST thing a President could possibly do wrong is a little "Hanky-panky" with the opposite sex, so the southerners took-out thr venom on Al Gore in favor of the Bush.

I'm glad I live in a blue-state. I am a very blue person, living in a blue state.


________
Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Trvgr]

Well, I guess there isn't much that I can add. The conservative republicans here look pretty foolish from what I can see, however. They've failed to make any real points, and those points they have made are fiction. Wow! No wonder they voted Bush... They're so much like him.


PS

To the rest of the world, I'm really sorry. Not every American is stupid enough to vote that conniving dictator into office. America looks like a pretty stupid country from your viewpoint, as well as mine.

PSS

I also think it's time to move to Canada. I've heard that they have civil rights (Sorry if the republicans couldn't understand those last two words) AND medicine. Woohoo!

[Hmmm]

Buh Bye!