The Bush failure in Mid-

[Ignatius Toner]

Israeli helicopters fired missiles at a car carrying a senior Hamas leader Tuesday, wounding him, killing two others and jeopardizing the U.S.-backed road map to Mid peace. President Bush criticized Israel, saying he was "deeply troubled" by the strike. A Sharon spokesperson later said of the Bush statement: "So what. Let him think what he wants to think."

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[DroopyA]

I'm not.

Peace
-N473
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[NYURepublican]

I suppose you don't think that the homicide bombings that preceded the helicopter strike had any affect on the "roadmap"?
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[Nicklaus]

come on NyU it takes two to tango

[NYURepublican]

That's my point.
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[Ignatius Toner]

Bush wasn't serious about the Mid . What he said today is what he was told to say today. Tomorrow he'll say something else. Meanwhile American soldiers continue to die daily in Iraq...for a lie.
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[NYURepublican]

Quote:Meanwhile American soldiers continue to die daily in Iraq...for a lie.

You keep pounding the "our boys are dying for a lie" drum (one wonders how you reconcile the discovery of the 2 mobile weapons labs with this statement), so I've gotta ask you:do you really believe that if we had left Saddam alone, he would have had absolutely no intentions whatsoever of pursuing and developing WMD technology, and that given enough time, he would not have eventually deployed them against the US or given them to terrorists who would do so? And then, if and when such an attack occurred, can you honestly tell me that you wouldn't be screaming your head off saying "Why the hell didn't Bush do anything to prevent this from happening?"

I'm just trying to find out whether you're a blithering idiot, woefully naive, or just blinded by your seething hatred of the President. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/10/03 11:47 pm

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[Mylezylez]

NYU,

You keep referring to the mobile weapons labs. I assume you mean those two trailers without a SHRED of evidence in them supporting that notion. I've even seen pictures of those trailers with army personel standing inside and around it without ANY chemical or radiation detection at all. You can probably still find them on buzzflash.com, but I'm sure they're elsewhere on the web.

Stop acting as if this was solid evidence.
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[Ignatius Toner]

He has nothing else to offer. He grasps at straws. There are no WMD and there never were any and the Bush syndicate knew that all along, even as they sent Americans over there to die for a lie.
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[ON TARGET]

Roadmap to peace blows up today with bus in Israel....15 killed in Jerusalem. By the way, they can't find any weapons of mass destruction...
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[Ignatius Toner]

Bush's weapons of mass destruction were really weapons of mass distraction. The Bush syndicate needed to cover up the slumping economy, the increasing racism, the soaring bankruptcies, the loss of confidence and the hideous republican-initiated discrimination towards single mothers.
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[DroopyA]

Why does every topic on this board go back to WMD?

Coallition fources have found chemical suits, warheads capible of carring chemical weapons, and of course the mobel labs in Iraq that all point to the fact that Saddam ther has or was planning to soon have WMD.

Quote:British military officials said Thursday they found chemical weapons protection suits when Iraqi infantry abandoned a headquarters facility in the oil fields of southern Iraq.

us.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/mea...cal.suits/

Quote:The prospect of war with Iraq rose sharply last night after United Nations weapons inspectors discovered 11 rocket warheads designed to deliver chemical weapons. They said Baghdad had failed to declare them.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/...wirq17.xml

You also fail to realize that even though reports say there was no hard evidence, they do say that they feel Saddam is starting up his weapons program again and intelligence has reason to believe that he may or soon posses WMD.

I think this site says it all.
cns.miis.edu/research/wmdme/iraq.htm#fn3

All of that aside though, what about the fact that we've almost shut down the Al Qaida organization, captured and/or killed the higher ups, and have completely destroyed a burtal regme that was strangling the people of Iraq? Is none of that important? It's funny, none of you had a problem when Clinton decided to bomb an Asprin factory for no reason.

Back to the topic at hand though, I'm not suprised the Road Map for Peace isn't working. I'm glad Bush is trying, but I just don't think Peace is as easy as a cease fire order and some peace talks. How many years have they been at this now? Did we really expect it all to end overnight?

Peace
-N473
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[Mylezylez]

How many times do I have to remind everyone how shoddy and ridiculous the notion of those mobile weapons labs are. They contained NO evidence of chemical or biological agents, and the team investigating the site didn't even have chemical/nuclear protection suits.

And please, the fact that Iraq possesses chemical suits only proves that Iraq and Iran were at war, and BOTH used chemical weapons (purchased from the US, as well as the Soviet Union)
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[Ignatius Toner]

The entire war was about Israel and the morons who are the Jews. All the Jews can do is sit in thr comfortable jets and helicopters and kill the innocent Palestinians. The racist pig Jews are the biggest threat to peace in the region, possibly even worse than Bush.
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[NYURepublican]

Quote:How many times do I have to remind everyone how shoddy and ridiculous the notion of those mobile weapons labs are

So what the hell was Saddam using them for, Miles? To make ice cream? Ignatius never answered the questions I put specifically to him, but again, I have to come to the conclusion that all of you anti-Bushites are ther blinded by your hatred or just naive.
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[UhOh]

The hatred for thr country is overwhelming. Especially Ignats who has not only hatred for the Republicans but for the democratic nation of Israel and all Jews as well. To honestly and fairly debate the issues on the Iraq war is one thing to blame it on Jews in this country and abroad is something else entirely. Ignats sounds like he or she could be a forgner who gets thr jollies bng an anti-semite and anti-American. Not even Democrats to the left of center would say such filth.

[Ignatius Toner]

Is that Bush's hand up your ass, you right-wing puppet? All I want is equal treatment for both sides of the conflict in the Middle . And let's face it, the Jews have had it too good for too long.
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[tsk tsk]

HE IS LONG OVER DUE.

[Ignatius Toner]

I don't need a lobotomy. You are probably a Jew like your friend Hitler.
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[TheRealThing]

I actually believe Bush wants a solution for the whole Israel fiasco. Not because he cares about the people, but because he (probably with good reason) believes that it might all blow up in his face.

Unfortunately for Bush, he has to deal with Sharon, a man who quite simply does not want peace. As much as i loathe Bush, I don't think he wants every Muslim/Arab dead. I'm 100% sure Sharon does. This guy does equal Hitler. Had they gunned down this bastard instead of Rabin, the world would actually be a better place.

Israel has vowed to destroy Hamas. (PS. two thirds of the Israeli strongely disagree with this declaration of war) But my point is that usually about 1 out 50 Palestinians that are killed, has something to do with Hamas. But it's still the Palestinians who are the only terrorists and the Israeli who are the only victims.
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[NYURepublican]

Quote:I don't need a lobotomy. You are probably a Jew like your friend Hitler.

Well, that's charming. I'll keep this quote in mind next time you accuse Republicans of bng bigoted, hate-mongers, you intolerant anti-Semite.
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[Mylezylez]

What a ridiculous lot
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[NYURepublican]

I call hatred for what it is.
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[Mylezylez]

I perscribe a class in general symantics for you!
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[TheRealThing]

Quote:Well, that's charming. I'll keep this quote in mind next time you accuse Republicans of bng bigoted, hate-mongers, you intolerant anti-Semite

Why is it wrong to be an anti-Semite (not disagreng there), but is it OK to be a Zionist (who are just as bigoted and intolerant)
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[NYIndependence]

Anti-Semitism differs from Zionism because one can be a Zionist who does not hate Arabs, but it is impossible to be an Anti-Semite who does not hate Jews.
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[TheRealThing]

Arab-hate is inherent to Zionism. Judaism is one of the l tolerant religions there is. Non-jewish people are considerd inferior (this includes Christians)

There was a time when bng called an anti-semite made people cringe. But lately everyone who doesn't agree with or has the slightest form of criticism about the Jewish nation is labelled anti-Semite. The "if you're not 100% with us, you're against us"-attitude Bush likes to mutter about.

I suppose I'm an anti-Semite since I consider Sharon and his goons to be useless forms of human life. And guess what? I don't care. I know I'm not and that this would be utter nonsense.
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[Mylezylez]

I think REAL anti-semitism probably entails hating someone BECAUSE they are Jewish. Prejudice against a rival ideology.

I happen to think that all organized religions are pretty dreadful. And even worse are the ones that actually think that they are superior (Christians, Jews, Muslims) to the others. Just a few cents from yours truly.
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[NYURepublican]

Quote:Arab-hate is inherent to Zionism. Judaism is one of the l tolerant religions there is. Non-jewish people are considerd inferior (this includes Christians)

Wow, I guess you guys are really showing your true colors here. How much do you guys really know about Judaism? Are you saying that the 85% of Jews who are Democrats (including folks like Chuck Schumer, Joe Lieberman, Jon Corzine, etc.) are bigots who believe non-Jews are inferior to them?

I don't ever want to hear any of you bitching about how Republicans and conservatives are hateful and intolerant; since clearly you "open-minded", "tolerant" liberals are incapable of practicing what you preach.
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[TheRealThing]

Quote:Are you saying that the 85% of Jews who are Democrats (including folks like Chuck Schumer, Joe Lieberman, Jon Corzine, etc.) are bigots who believe non-Jews are inferior to them?

No, we are not. Learn to read.

Quote:I don't ever want to hear any of you bitching about how Republicans and conservatives are hateful and intolerant; since clearly you "open-minded", "tolerant" liberals are incapable of practicing what you preach.

Don't put words in our mouths for your own convenience.
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[NYURepublican]

Quote:No, we are not. Learn to read.

So what are you saying then? Does it not follow that if "Judaism is one of the l tolerant religions", that the Jews who follow that religion (including some examples which I gave you) are also intolerant? How is the religion intolerant, but not the people who follow it?

I guess there's no real rhyme or reason to bigotry.
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[TheRealThing]

Quote:So what are you saying then? Does it not follow that if "Judaism is one of the l tolerant religions", that the Jews who follow that religion (including some examples which I gave you) are also intolerant

No, it doesn't.

Christianity looks down on homosexuals. Does that mean every Christian hates homosexuals?

Most Jews interpret the Talmud in an openminded manner, but these die-hard zionists choose to see it in as an excuse to discriminate. Just like those Opus D-idiots do with the bible and the Muslim-extremists do with the Koran. Unfortunately these zionists are in control of the country (eventhough they are a minority, where have I seen that before)

Do I really have to spell everything out? (deep sigh)
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[NYURepublican]

Quote:Christianity looks down on homosexuals. Does that mean every Christian hates homosexuals?

No, Christianity looks down on promiscuous sexual behavior, whether it's heterosexual or homosexual. Everyone is equal in the eyes of God (and Christians), whether they're homosexuals, heterosexuals, or whatever.

Quote:Most Jews interpret the Talmud in an openminded manner, but these die-hard zionists choose to see it in as an excuse to discriminate.

Ah, so you only hate Jews who disagree with your particular interpretation of Judaism? You must have realized how bad you're coming off; I can see you're trying to back-track now. If your real beef is with Zionism, then why didn't you say "zionism is intolerant" instead of "Judaism is intolerant"?

Quote:Just like those Opus D-idiots

Do you even know what Opus D is? It has nothing to do with how you interpret the bible; it's just a volunteer organization for lay Catholics who like to do community service, spread God's word, and the like. Pretty scary. There's even a website: www.opusd.org . You'll find no sinister messages or calls for attacking non-Christians there. You really need to stop levying accusations against people and things you don't know anything about.

Quote:Do I really have to spell everything out? (deep sigh)

Cut the crap. When you make outrageous statements about how you hate Judaism and proclaim yourself to be an anti-Semite, you're damn right you'd better spell out what you're talking about. You can try to hide your hatred now and couch it in different terms, but we all know what you really are. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/14/03 6:57 pm

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[NYIndependence]

"I think REAL anti-semitism probably entails hating someone BECAUSE they are Jewish. Prejudice against a rival ideology."

I agree. Bng anti-Israel does not necessarily make you an anti-Semite. It makes you someone who rejects a political entity, not a religious or ethnic group. I disagree with you on some points regarding Israel, but I will not label you an anti-Semite unless I see some type of behavior from you that would suggest that your views are more than political.
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[TheRealThing]

And you keep putting words in my mouth. Did I say I hate Judaism? Did I say I was an Anti-Semite? I said Judaism is one of the l tolerant religions and that imbeciles could probably use this statement to claim I'm an anti-Semite, which you promptly do.

And I'm backtracking? You call denying words that you put into my mouth backtracking?

About Opus D:

They are an extremely conservative wing in the Catholic world who use a lot of pressure and have much more influence then you think (in "old" Europe). Especially in the higher echelons of this organisation there is a disturbing amount of corruption, some are willing to go very far to get what they want.

They are commonly known as the Holy Mafia and were the branch of the Catholic Church that played a very dirty part in the Holocaust. They had very amiguous ties with Franco (for those who don't know: the Spanish Hitler) and thr founder, Escriva, has been quoted as saying that Hitler would save Christianity from Communism.

They are a very secretive organisation and consider themselvs infallible.

Books written by former members describe humiliating rituals such as forced confessions, the censorship of personal letters and reading material, and the encouragement of flagellation and self-mutilation.

But hey, you found thr website, you obviously know a lot more about them then I do.
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[NYIndependence]

If you are going to point out those who supported Hitler, you must also point out those who were against Hitler, who made up the majority of the Catholic Church in the WW2-era.

Albert nstn, perhaps the 20th Century's most influential Jew said in Time Magazine (December 23, 1940, p.40): "Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler?s campaign for suppressing truth. I had never any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom."

When Pius XII died, Golda Mr had this to say: "We share humanity's sorrow ... When the terrible x5-x5-x5-x5-x5-rdom was unleashed on our people, the Pope raised his voice on behalf of the victims. Life in our times was enriched by a voice that spoke clearly, above the daily tumult, on the great moral truths. We mourn for a great servant of peace."

There you have it. The 2 most influential Jews of the 20th Century squarely defending the Catholic Church and its protection of the Jews during the Holocaust. This is not to say that there were not Catholics and other Christians who supported Hitler (probably for his anti-Communism more than anything else), but it did not come from the Vatican.
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[NYURepublican]

I didn't just call you an anti-Semite; you said it yourself on this very page. Or did you forget already? You'd better check back through your own posts.

I'm also not putting words in your mouth with regard to Judaism; you yourself said that you consider Judaism an extremely intolerant religiong that considers "all non-Jews inferior". (I'd like to see your source for that last statement.) You then proceeded to say that your real problem is with Jews who don't interpret thr religion in the way you'd like them to. So, ther you hate the religion, or you hate a certain subset of people who practice it in a way that you don't care for. ther way, we all see through your BS.

"They are a very secretive organisation and consider themselvs infallible."

Yeah, so secretive that they have a website available to the public. And no, they don't consider themselves infallible, it's a basic tenet of Christianity (and Catholicism) that all people are fallible. Again, if you're going to make outrageous claims, let's see you back them up with the source of your information.
Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/15/03 10:55 am

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[TheRealThing]

First of all, I find it odd that it's always me that has to provide sources and my opponents can just keep spouting thr nonsense. I guess they're gonna start looking for sources after making the statement. Following the presidents fine example.

Second of all:

Quote:I suppose I'm an anti-Semite since I consider Sharon and his goons to be useless forms of human life. And guess what? I don't care. I know I'm not and that this would be utter nonsense.

LEARN TO READ
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[NYURepublican]

Whatever, you hatemonger. If you were talking about Zionism bng intolerant, you would have said that. But you didn't; you specifically said "Judaism". I can read just fine, but you may want to think twice before you make your prejudices so obvious. And you bet your ass I'm gonna ask you for a source when you say things like "Judaism is a religion in which non-Jews are considered inferior". I can't imagine where you'd be able to source that, except for the Aryan Nations homepage. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/15/03 5:16 pm

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[TheRealThing]

Your quote's:

Quote:when you say things like "Judaism is a religion in which non-Jews are considered inferior".

Quote:If you were talking about Zionism bng intolerant, you would have said that

Now my quote:

Quote:Arab-hate is inherent to Zionism. Judaism is one of the l tolerant religions there is. Non-jewish people are considerd inferior

You conveniently left out my first part about Zionism. You're leaving out sentences and making your own combinations to prove a point. When I try to make things clear, you reply whatever, which by the way is a most impressive argument.

If I start rereading threads I'm now apparently a leftist Aryan liberal anti-Semite communist racist hatemonger. And I'm also the one who is a namecaller.

And to think I'd started all of this to put across my point that it is impossible to be critical of judaism without bng branded all of the things I'm bng called for bng critical of Judaism. I do not hate Judaism. I do not hate Jews. I dislike the ideas of (orthodox) extreme Zionists, but where on earth do you get these ideas? Why do Republicans always have to put everything in black and white? If you're not completely and madly in love with Judaism, well then you must hate it with all your heart.
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[NYIndependence]

To be fair, I'm the one who always asks for sources, and I think I return the favor whenever possible.
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