Land of the Free?

[Project Mayhem Robert Pau]

Land of the Free?

You think your living in the "land of the free"? The freest country in the world? Then how come you can smoke pot in Amsterdam, but if you do it here you will get arrested? How come you can freely speak your mind without fear of retaliation in Europe, but in America there is a paranoia about due to the tyrannical government, and the fascist organizations within.

Anyone who has blindly bought into society's lies is a fool. We should feel compassion for them, for they are blind and destined to live a miserable live. We should work to help free people's minds from the lies they have been fed since they were born. America is a righteous nation? BULLSHIT! Our own CIA created bin laden, and Donald Rumsfeld was the man who sold Iraq its "weapons of mass destruction".
America is the home of the free? BULLSHIT! John Ashcroft and Geroge Bush are destroying our Constitution at an alarming rate.
America is home of the brave? BULLSHIT! Dropping bombs out of planes from 10,000 feet up is our definition of "bravery".
America never lies. BULLSHIT! Where are the weapons? Where is Osama? Where is Saddam?
Free press? DOUBLE BULLSHIT! Our entire media system is own by six media conglomerates that TELLS you only what BIG BROTHER wants you to hear.

The definition of patriotism in our country is "be silent and ask no questions". That was the same attitude people had back in 1930s Germany, and look where they ended up.

It is the people's DUTY to hold thr government accountable. Well, the American people have failed MISERABLY at this duty. Our leaders are out of control. They serve the corporations, not the American people. One nation under Wall Street, not one nation under god.
The ignorance of the majority of the american people is due to the corporate monopoly of our media system. BUT, I sense that a mass awakening has taken place, that MILLIONS of people have woken up from the lies they have been fed. I see it on a daily basis, its hard to find even ONE Bush supporter out there, and that is with good reason. What kind of person would support someone who has waged an ILLEGAL war AGAINST world opinion, and is destroying our Constitution, and the Bill of Rights? I have one answer to that question.

Only an ignorant FOOL would support someone like that. Someone who has been brainwashed by the corporate media, someone who has been fed lies thr entire life, and is too closed minded to break free of the prison that he has created for himself.

People, it is time we held our leaders accountable for thr actions. We must all work together to reform our system, and make it accountable to the PEOPLE, not the CORPORATE AND RICH ELITE!


The author of this article welcomes your comments at Muscles598@yahoo.com

[NYURepublican]

If you would like to live in another country that you deem freer than the United States, whether it be Amsterdam, Cuba, or anywhere else, by all means, pack your bags and go. No one's keeping you here. Everybody wins; you'll be out of the sinister bastion of evil that is America, and stable-minded people can enjoy the fruits of American liberty and capitalism without hearing your incoherent rants.

For all your whining about how Ashcroft and Bush have trampled on our rights, America is so free that you can bash her all day long and suffer no consequence; try doing that in an Islamic theocracy like Iran or one of your beloved socialist strongholds. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/1/03 10:03:00 pm

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[Mylezylez]

I think Project Mayehm Robert Paulson made his point quite well, especially with the response he got.

NYURepublican, don't you see that your "love it or leave it" attitude is exactly the problem? Right now, there is a large percentage of people in this country who verbally put down anyone who points out the PLETHORA of awful things that are happening in this country right now.

No, those people aren't bng put in gas chambers due to thr beliefs, but they are bng denied public debate, and in many cases are punished financially.

I think at a time like this, when the war in Iraq produced about every bad result that was predicted (I can debate this with anyone who disagrees), and the FCC voted to allow Rupert Murdock and his ilk to buy more and more of the airwaves, I think it's time to stop bng distracted by this witchhunt, and figure out how the country sank to this level.

-Miles
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[Project Mayhem Robert Pau]

NYURepublican just shows how FASCIST this country has become. YOu say I have freedom of speech, and yet I can't talk without some fuckin redneck tellin me "LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!"

If america is such a great and UNIQUE country, why the hell are you comparing it to Iran?

Maybe you should go back to Nazi Germany where you belong, you fascist @#%$ traitor to our Constitution

[NYURepublican]

Quote:NYURepublican just shows how FASCIST this country has become. YOu say I have freedom of speech, and yet I can't talk without some fuckin redneck tellin me "LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!"

Apparently, you seem to think the first amendment shields you from any form of criticism whatsoever, which it certainly does not. The first amendment protects your right to make outrageous anti-American statements, and it also protects my right to respond to them in kind.

Sean Penn just paid over $100,000 to take out a full-page ad in the New York Times criticizing the current administration rather harshly, making many similar points to the ones you raised. So far he has not been taken into custody by armed FBI agents. (For that matter, nther have you. Ashcroft must be asleep at the wheel, considering you posted your "article" on a public internet message board, eh?) I think it's safe to say that the free speech rights of the blame-America-first crowd are not in jeopardy. But that doesn't mean you can expect a free pass from those who don't swallow your tripe. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Quote:If america is such a great and UNIQUE country, why the hell are you comparing it to Iran?

Let's go back to Reading Comprehension 101: I was not comparing America with Iran; rather I was making a distinction. Let me rephrase this somewhat more simply, so you can understand it: "If you were an Iranian citizen, and you criticized the Iranian government in a manner similar to the way you are criticizing the American government right now, the consequences would be much more severe (i.e. having your tongue cut out)." In other words, for all your griping about how evil America is, there is no penalty for speaking your mind in America, whereas in other countries, there is.

Okay, did you get all that? I think I broke it down pretty completely, but if there's anything you still don't understand, feel free to let me know.

Quote:the FCC voted to allow Rupert Murdock and his ilk to buy more and more of the airwaves

Murdoch currently has less than 2% market share. Why weren't all you liberals so upset about "monopolies" when left-wingers had control over the media? You still have CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, the New York Times, all the major news mags, etc., etc., etc. But now that you guys are losing the competition as more and more people turn to conservative talk radio, Fox News Channel, and conservative news websites, you're all up in arms. I guess maybe that's the reason why liberals hate the free market so much; once people have choices, they don't listen to liberals any more. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/2/03 5:05:10 pm

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[Mylezylez]

Where should I start?

There is no such thing as the "liberal media". Any insider will tell you how much corporate interests (almost always conservative) have taken over the news media almost entirely. Fox News is so bad it's laughable. We have monosyllabic reporters yelling emotionally at thr "liberal" guests (to shut them up), and not only agreng with, but perpetuated any number of government lies that have surfaced since 9/11. Also we have Donahue, who actually got higher rating than any other cable news show in that timeslot. He was considered "out of touch" with the audience, and fired.

I think it's pretty obvious that the Republican party has been using money to manipulate the law of this country to benefit them and thr campaign contributors.

Can you doubt this?


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[NYURepublican]

Quote:There is no such thing as the "liberal media".

Oh, man. Have you picked up a newspaper or turned on the TV lately? What world do you live in?

I don't understand what your problem is with Fox News. Currently it's the #1 ranked cable news station in America. If you and all your enlightened liberal friends don't want to watch it, then don't. But don't be pissed just because more people are choosing to watch it now than are choosing to watch the stations that give you your left-wing talking points. That's part of what we here in the real world like to call "supply and demand"- there is a "demand" for news that doesn't pander to left-wing interests, and so someone is going to "supply" it.

Quote:Also we have Donahue, who actually got higher rating than any other cable news show in that timeslot.

Where are you getting your info from? Donahue was consistently on the bottom of the ratings heap. I don't know why anyone ever expected a different outcome; the put the man opposite Bill O'Rlly,for crying out loud. An old, whiny liberal vs. the most-watched hour of cable news in America? I could've predicted the outcome of that before they even had Donahue on the air. Just goes back to what I said before: when people have a clear choice, they don't choose liberals.
----------------------------------------

Liberals talk about bng "pro-choice", but that's just with regard to abortion. When it comes to choice in other arebas- the right to bear arms, school vouchers, deregulation of the media- liberals will fight tooth and nail to prevent the average American from having any fair choice whatsoever. I repeat: for all your conspiracy theories about how Rupert Murdoch is a tool of the Republican party, you can still turn your dial to whatever news station you want.
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[Mylezylez]

Actually, while Donahue recved lower ratings than other news shows, he was consistantly #1 in his timeslot (when he was NOT against our intellectual friend Mr O'rlly).

And speakign of Bill O'Rlly, is HE what you want to see more in the news? I could point to an infinite number of stupid and irresponsible things he's said. I mean really, do you think it's SMART when he cuts people's microphones out during a debate? When he had a man who lost his father in the world trade center (speaking against the war), do you think it was awfully clever of Bill to say how ashamed his father probably was of his actions? Is this the type of "news" we want? I think he's still boycotting the French too, that upstanding non-liar.

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[DroopyA]

Quote:"Then how come you can smoke pot in Amsterdam, but if you do it here you will get arrested?"

Could it be because Marijuana is an illegal drug that does more harm to the body then good? Marijuana effects your memory, thoughts, concentration, sensory/time perception, and coordinated movements. It quadruples the risk of having a heart attack in the first hour of smoking and effects your heart rate, blood pressure, and the amount of oxygen carried in your blood. It's been proven that smoking marijuana is far more hazardous to your lungs then smoking cigarettes and causes far more respiratory illnesses. It effects your social skills, your immune system, and even increases your chances of developing cancer. Not to mention it makes you stupid. Why should that be legal? Besides, you CAN smoke pot in some places here in America, as long as it is for medicinal purposes.

If you don't like laws, then stand up, write letters, join in protests, do what ever you have to in order to show the government that the people feel marijuana should be legal. That is what living in America is all about. Welcome to the land of the free.

Quote:"How come you can freely speak your mind without fear of retaliation in Europe, but in America there is a paranoia about due to the tyrannical government, and the fascist organizations within."

You're speaking your mind on this openly public website and I don't see you running in fear from a "tyrannical government". The fact that you openly admit that you hate your country and you are still alive to tell about shows the very fact you are trying to prove here, is wrong.

Quote:"America is a righteous nation? BULLSHIT! Our own CIA created bin laden, and Donald Rumsfeld was the man who sold Iraq its "weapons of mass destruction"."

I hate to break it to you, but Saddam's weapons come primarily from France and Russia.

Quote:"America is the home of the free? BULLSHIT!"

You're correct. America is the LAND of the free, not the HOME of the free. But all of that aside, how you can you say that it is all bullshit? Are you told what to do? Are you told where to work? Are you told where to live? Are you not allowed to make your own decisions? Are you not allowed to follow the religion of your choice? Can you not bear arms, speak your mind, or act freely as you so choose? Are you a slave? Sounds like the land of the free to me.

Quote:"America is home of the brave? BULLSHIT! Dropping bombs out of planes from 10,000 feet up is our definition of "bravery"."

But flying two civilian planes into a highly populated civilian building is better? At l our bombs were bng dropped on military targets and not highly populated civilian buildings.

Also, we didn't just drop bombs. Many of our brave country men and women marched into war on foot or behind the wheel of a vehicle. They all risked everything, and some even gave thr lives so you could remain free enough to complain about how much you hate the United States. Is dying for your country not an act of bravery?

Quote:"America never lies. BULLSHIT! Where are the weapons? Where is Osama? Where is Saddam?"

Iraq harbors these terrorists within it?s walls and in some cases even uses the Arab Liberation Front to funnel money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers in order to prolong the intifada. America never lied. We never said Saddam or Osama were dead. However, we have destroyed many terrorist camps, depleted the Al Quida terrorist organization, and destroyed the Iraqi regime freng the civilians of Iraq just like we promised.

Quote:"Free press? DOUBLE BULLSHIT! Our entire media system is own by six media conglomerates that TELLS you only what BIG BROTHER wants you to hear."

Double Bullshit huh? If you're not careful, some of us might mistake your for a 12 year old. None of the six media conglomerates you're talking about here are part of the government. Therefore the government does not control the media nor can they control what the media reports. If you don't like what you see on the news, then start your own news station. You do have the right to you know. That is what the land of the free is all about.

Quote:"The definition of patriotism in our country is "be silent and ask no questions". That was the same attitude people had back in 1930s Germany, and look where they ended up."

How? Are protests and marches through the streets of New York the people bng "silent"?

Quote:"The ignorance of the majority of the American people is due to the corporate monopoly of our media system."

In part yes, but the ignorance of the American people lies within the American people themselves. It's your responsibility to educate yourself, not mine.

Quote:"I see it on a daily basis, its hard to find even ONE Bush supporter out there, and that is with good reason."

Who are you asking, the British? You just found one and I would be more then happy to give you plenty of reasons why I support Bush, but I assume by the bias nature of this post that no matter what reason I give you, it won't be good enough.

Peace
-N473

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[Mylezylez]

DroopyA,

Could you cite some of your sources, because I think most of your facts are in dispute.

Did you do research to respond to this thread, or did you just write what you knew all along?

I mean, you don't believe there's a symbiosis between media companies and the government these days? Are you kidding? The FCC was even so kind as to allow companies to buy more and more of the airwaves. Did you listen to the debate AGAINST that ruling? Or did you just swallow whatever your favorite right-wing "newsman" told you?

And you sure set us all straight on that Home vs. Land debate.

I must also strongly contest your marijuana tirade. Did you know not ONE human bng has ever died from smoking Marijuana? It increases the risk of cancer for those who already smoke cigarettes, and no marijuana-related accident has ever occured that didn't include alcohol also. And hey, nuclear power is a much bigger cause of cancer, but G.W is pushing ahead with it anyway (AND using depleted uranium as munitions in Iraq, an inexcusable action). PLUS, marijuana SLOWS your heartrate. So basically, your information is faulty.

And lastly on that topic, many cities in California (for example) have legalized marijuana for medicinal purposes. The tenth amendment gives states the right to make whatever laws it chooses, through the initiative process, or the state legislature. BUT, even so, the federal government has arrested hundreds of people in this state for legally posessing it. And yes, those are people

And do you not realize that millions and millions of people ARE trying to change the things about this country they feel are wrong. BUT, they're not getting any exposure in the media, and are bng FAR outspent. Luckily the internet is still a free (except for subsciption fees, of course) medium, until someone decides it can be owned, that it.
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[Mylezylez]

To finish that one paragraph...

...those are people who posessed it legally under California law.
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[NYURepublican]

Off-topic, but just for fun:

CABLE NEWS RACE
FRIDAY, MAY 30, 2003

O'RLLY 1.5 [RATING]
GRETA 1.4
LARRY KING 1.4
HANNITY/COLMES 1.3
SHEP SMITH 1.3
BRIT HUME 1.2
AARON BROWN 0.6
CNN 8 9M 0.6
HARDBALL 0.3
OLBERMANN 0.3
CROSSFIRE 0.3
SCARBOROUGH 0.3
LESTER HOLT 0.2


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[DroopyA]

It was late, I wrote that in about 15 minutes while eating dinner and it's obvious you're grabbing for straws here in order to provide an argument. So maybe now that I have more time I can clear myself up a little bit.

Quote:I mean, you don't believe there's a symbiosis between media companies and the government these days?

I think NYURepublican has already answered this. There are liberal stations out thr too, it's not may fault nobody chooses to watch them. You're claiming the government controls the media yet I've yet to hear any of you point me to a source or show any facts that back up such an accusation. When I did my own research, the best I could find where pages full of facts that state how much money a corporation, that happens to own a media network, donated to the republican party. But need I remind you, that as a private business, that corporation has the freedom to donate it's money to whomever it chooses. I also must point out, that if that is the basis for your argument, the media is controlling the government; not the other way around.

- vancouver.indymedia.org/n.../41975.php

Quote:And you sure set us all straight on that Home vs. Land debate.

Relax, I wasn't serious.

Quote:I must also strongly contest your marijuana tirade.

www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/marijuana.html

Quote:And hey, nuclear power is a much bigger cause of cancer, but G.W is pushing ahead with it anyway

Trying to compare Marijuana to Nuclear Power is like trying to compare Green Beans to Apples. The advantages of Nuclear Power far outwgh the advantages of smoking pot. Do we really need to start a debate about Nuclear power?

Quote:PLUS, marijuana SLOWS your heartrate. So basically, your information is faulty.

"One study has indicated that a user?s risk of heart attack more than quadruples in the first hour after smoking marijuana. The researchers suggest that such an effect might occur from marijuana?s effects on blood pressure and heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of blood." - Taken from the above link

Quote:And do you not realize that millions and millions of people ARE trying to change the things about this country they feel are wrong. BUT, they're not getting any exposure in the media, and are bng FAR outspent.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to get at here? Are you really trying to say that any movement that has a large democratic following is ignored by the national media?

Peace
-N473
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[DroopyA]

Sorry, forgot two sources

Iraq Weapons
www.thedissidentfrogman.c...00113.html

Iraq Weapons/Terrorists
www.newsmax.com/archives/...1609.shtml

Peace
-n473
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[Mylezylez]

I guess you're right. Bill O'Rlly's show makes the most money, therefore most people in this country must agree with him.

Although he still seems like a complete retard to me, incapable of any meaningful debate. He's more like a stubborn grandfather, and I've noticed those on his show who don't share his opinions are ther cut off, or given a good talkin to by grandaddy O'Rlly.

My point is, how can anyone watch that show, and walk away from it thinking they've recved any information? O'Rlly never backed down from that France boycott issue, which was not only competely ridiculous, but every government official who was on his show at the time (yes, I watched it) was telling him what a bad and stupid idea that was. He comes off as whiney, uninformed, and extremely inflexible.

Why would you rely on this man for news, listen to his opinions, or cite him as a credible journalist?
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[NYURepublican]

The man is not a hard news journalist. His show, just like Chris Matthews' Hardball or similarly themed shows is a show about opinions on the news of the day. You know when you watch him that that's what you're getting. He constantly has on guests who disagree with him, and you're right that he doesn't play softball with them, unlike some other jokers like Larry King. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/3/03 1:10:29 pm

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[Mylezylez]

No, he doesn't play "softball", whatever the hell that means. I suppose softball would describe an intelligent conversation, whereas Bill O'Rlly is so enlightened and intelligent, and able to debate everything he says that he routinely overshouts his guests, shuts thr microphones off, and doesn't hesitate to call them names. The list of lies he's perpetuated is VERY long. Shall I give a few examples? Only if you want, of course.
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[NYURepublican]

I don't understand why the man gets you so upset. Just because more people watch his show than any other cable news show in the country is no reason to have a hissy fit. If you disagree with his debating style or his opinions, that's fine. Just don't watch him. But don't get pissed because the man's successful.

If you talked publicly on TV for an hour every night, I too could probably come up with a list of "lies" that you've "perpetrated", whether they be simple errors of fact, opinions you propagate that I disagree with, or the like. Producing a list of "lies" you believe he's told is pointless, unless you're prepared to do the same for every other pundit or newscaster who's been on TV for a considerable amount of time. I could come up with pages and pages of lies told by Dan "Florida Goes for Gore!" Rather, Peter Jennings, the entire editorial staff of the New York Times.... Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/3/03 10:24 pm

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[Mylezylez]

Actually, I could care less that Bill O'Rlly is successful, except for this: His success is due largely to his sensationalism, thick-headedness, inflexibility, and his ability to consistantly be a toady for the gevernment.

So basically we're left with this: Does he KNOW that much of what he says isn't true (I stress MUCH), or is he just ignorant?


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[Project Mayhem Robert Pau]

the reason all these people think the media is "LIBERAL" is because that is what they have been told since day one. It is thr perception, and they are too closed minded to look outside of thr own perception. Yes, the corporate media is starting to turn a little against Bush, at l on Yahoo News, AP News, they had a couple of stories that were biased against Bush.

From what I have seen, I don't think there is any way in hell Bush can win in 2004, besides rigging the election. He only has a few die-hard Republican supporters left.

So, lets be happy over that, that the fascist regime in Washington will be gone in 2004, to be replaced by a fascist Democrat regime. The only candidate that has any TRUTH in him whatsoever is Dennis Kucinich. I suggest you read his stance on the issues. www.kucinich.us

[BOOCHEE]

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT,IF YOU LEAVE KNOW I AM WILLING TO BUY YOU A ONE TICKET TO IRAN ASS HOLE

[TheRealThing]

And once again the pro-Bush league does not reply to the accusations against Bush and his supporters, but they start about something or someone different. NYURepublican seems to be an expert at this.

Whenever we say that Bush did this or that, they start about how Clinton did something else or how Saddam is really evil. That is not the point we're argung. No one is denying that. We are talking about Bush, Rumsfeldt and the others and what they're doing and saying. No one can refute those allegations.

Calling valid arguments leftist propaganda or chomskyite nonsense is not a reply. That's admitting defeat.
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