Oppose the Assault Weapons Ban renewal

[NYURepublican]

Go to www.awbansunset.com. Call your Representatives in Congress and tell them to oppose the renewal of the '94 ban on so-called "assault weapons" if and when it comes up for a vote on the House floor.
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[main street]

without spewing out 2nd amendemnt crap tell me why you need an assault weapon and dont tell me its for target shooting...by the way you'll enjoy this story...an 11 year old came to the school the other day and shot a 10 year old in the head with a pellet gun...
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[main street]

"second amendment crap" says main street.

i guess its "crap" when someone protects his family or home from a criminal with a gun? well it happens 2,000,000 times a year!

i guess its "crap" that localities with the highest gun ownership have the lowest crime!

i guess its "crap" when only criminals can have guns in main street's warped mentality!

wake up main street and others, lets stop punishing the innocent law abiding citizen when we should be punishing teh guilty!!
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[main street]

Answer my original question. What do you need an assault weapon for?.....I understand all about your 2nd amendment rights. That's not what I asked you. ..Explain to me what a private law abiding gun owning person NEEDS an assault weapon for...?
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[main street]

simply explain to me why a person needs an assault weapon with a multi-round clip. What is it used for?
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[the anti-gun cowards]

Answer his question and stop with the "meaningless spineless" stuff! Why does anyone need an NRA-endorsed killer weapon that spews death and destruction? Why does anyone need an assault weapon unless such person is bent on creating fear and chaos in the lives of ordinary decent NRA-destesting and NRA-despising Americans? Why would an American president who orates daily on his desire to protect Americans favor the elimination of the ban on a weapon so deadly and so fear-inspiring that ordinary Americans tremble at the mention of it's NRA-approved name? Why would the NRA goons push the legalisation of such a killer weapon?

[NYURepublican]

Quote:Why does anyone need an NRA-endorsed killer weapon that spews death and destruction?

Your hyper-emotional response shows just how little you really understand about guns and how the arbitrary label "assault weapon" has confused many citizens as to what these guns really are. Many guns that are called "assault weapons" are no different or more lethal than your average semi-automatic gun, except for minor cosmetic changes that make them look more like military weapons. That's all. You would know this if you had bothered to take the time to visit the original link that I posted. Also, many people are inquiring about why anyone would want to own such a gun. Again, I stress that you visit www.awbansunset.com as this question and many others are addressed in a rational, informative manner without the inflammatory rhetoric that comes from the anti-gun side of the debate. I will post the response from that site to the latter question:

Quote:Why would anyone want to own a scary-looking gun like that?There are many answers to that question. It?s kind of like asking a car enthusiast why they would ever want to own a 425 horsepower 1968 Corvette Stingray. There are many reasons, some objective, some emotional. All of them legitimate, at l to the driver.

In many ways, military style rifles are the ?sports cars? of the gun world. They are noisy, fast, fun and they are ?attention getters.?

So, let?s look at a few reasons that people own military style rifles.

First of all, military rifles are easy to operate. They are ergonomically designed so that people of every shape and size can use them. Military rifles are generally lightwght, so they are easy to carry and hold. They are also designed so that an individual can become proficient with them after a minimal amount of instruction. The military style rifles that can be purchased by the public incorporate these same design features.

By the nature of thr original purpose, military rifles are designed to be reliable. They have to be able to function in virtually every type of environment, whether it is snow, rain, mud, or sand. Civilian versions of these weapons feature similar reliability because they are built to the same manufacturing specifications.

Military style rifles are fun to shoot. They don?t have much recoil, so they don?t hurt your shoulder the way some other rifles do. (Shotguns come to mind!) Military style rifles shoot ammunition that is used by many countries. The military rifles of the United States typically use cartridges that have been adopted by all of our NATO allies and are manufactured around the world. The AK family of military style rifles uses cartridges that are manufactured in China or the former Soviet Union. The result of this is that ammunition for military style rifles is readily available, and relatively inexpensive. Therefore you can shoot military style rifles quite a bit without ?breaking the bank.?

Another feature for many enthusiasts is the availability of ?after market? accessories for military style rifles. From flashlight attachments, to specialized optics, there are a tremendous number of products and gadgets available to customize or improve the operation of a military style rifle.

From a practical standpoint, military rifles are very accurate. This fact makes them useful to certain groups of hunters and competitive shooters alike. Specialized competitions designed for military style rifles are increasing in popularity. These ?practical? competitions are timed events that require the shooter to fire at multiple targets at a variety of distances and locations. Full capacity magazines, (also banned by the 1994 act) are a requirement for this type of competition since every re-load costs a couple of seconds.

Let?s not ignore the value of these rifles for personal defense. With the right type of ammunition, military style rifles can be a very effective defensive weapon. Many police agencies have recognized thr value and have adopted thr use in close quarter tactical operations. In these post 9/11 days, prudent Americans recognize that we are all vulnerable and should be prepared to defend ourselves, our families, our communities, and our country from threats that can strike us anytime and anyplace. A well-trained person, armed with a military style rifle can provide a deterrent and, if necessary, an effective defense. Full capacity magazines, whether for rifles or pistols, are also very important in this role, particularly in a situation where a homeowner finds him/herself facing multiple attackers.

Military style rifles are well designed and very reliable. They are fun and economical to shoot. They can be easily ?customized.? They are accurate and they can also provide an effective defense for yourself and your loved ones.
The real question should be: Why wouldn?t you want to own one? Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/18/03 3:24:44 pm

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[main street]

very simple...answer my question.....I didn't ask you about your right to bear arms. you have that right...just tell me why a law abiding gun owner needs a multi-clip assault weapon?
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[main street]

bad answer....tell my why you NEED it...your avoiding the question...WHAT DO YOU USE IT FOR???????
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[NYURepublican]

Patience is a virtue. I have posted the response above.

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[NYURepublican]

Quote:tell my why you NEED it...your avoiding the question...WHAT DO YOU USE IT FOR???????

What do you NEED a car for? There are many other means of transportation available to you, like public transit, bikes, or even walking. You don't need a car to survive. But chances are good that you own one anyway.

Look, no response will ever be enough to satisfy you, since like many people you seem to have a fierce anti-gun stigma that comes from lack of familiarity with guns. To break it down simply and to give you a direct answer to what so-called "assault" weapons are used for:

1. Sport shooting
2. Hunting
3. Personal defense

No different than any other gun. It is the intent of the shooter, not the type of gun, that determines its lethality. But I don't expect you to put aside your anti-gun animus and listen to reason, since you likely feel that no guns are good guns. I encourage you to peruse the site I've linked at your lsure and maybe you'll gain an understanding of why your logic on "assault" weapons is flawed.
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[main street]

The only ignorance here is bng exhibited by the NRA pushers of killer weapons that have no usual purpose in any law abiding society. The NRA goons can't live without thr stupid and stupid-looking assault weapons. These are the weapons that daily rain death and destruction on American families and cause billions of dollars in damages and healt costs. But that means nothing to the NRA goons who spew thr phony second amendment rights. Thr warped view is the hell with the right to live in a violence free society due Americans who work hard to live in such violence free society. The NRA goons must have thr killer goon-guns and the hell with the rest of us!
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[Dont tread on ME]

The ignorance of the gun goons is mind-boggling. They spew thr venom toward a decent woman whose husband was mowed down by one of the goon-guns pushed by the gun goons, a decent woman whose son was maimed for life by one of the Heston-endorsed weapons of death. These are the same goons that preach high morals and protection for all Americans! Such ignorance and stupidity could only belong to a republican goon.

[Where did you learn about guns? From the Rep. Carolyn McCarthy homestudy course? What is a "multi clip assault weapon?" Do you speak with this level of ignorance on every subject or just when it comes to guns?]

[NRA Member]

I am a law-abiding citizen of the United States. I am a member of the NRA. I am pro-law enforcement. I can discuss any aspect of the second amendment/ gun issues. I support the entire Bill of Rights, but in terms of importance the second amendment is first. To anyone who does not like my position, I sincerely don't give a dam!
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[main street]

what I do know is that alot of you geniuses leave your guns unlocked and five year old kids shoot there own three year old brothers to death with unregistered guns bought through some loophole at a gun show. And thats a fact......
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[NYDemocrat]

main street, didn't you know that these guys think guns are there dicks. It's the only way they can prove there manhood.

[NYURepublican]

It's interesting to note how this thread is a microcosm of the national gun debate; anti-gunners resort to invective and hate speech, while all I've done is simply laid out the facts in a calm, rational manner. For example:

Quote:These are the weapons that daily rain death and destruction on American families and cause billions of dollars in damages and healt costs.

There is precisely no evidence to back up that statement. In fact, every single study, including those done by the Department of Justice, have concluded that assault weapons are used in only a miniscule percentage of crimes; therefore, the brunt of this ban's effect has been to restrict the rights of law-abiding citizens. In the years since the ban went into effect, there has been no statistically significant decrease in crime that can be associated with the passage of the AWB. Even anti-gunners will admit this; Dianne Fnstn, the author of the original ban, admitted that it could never have much of an effect on crime. Banning "assault" weapons is a purely emotional response that does little to solve the problems of violent crime in America and serves only to unlawfully abridge the 2nd Amendment. I urge all those on the other side of the debate to truly get thr facts straight if they want to argue this issue intelligently; by simply making wild, baseless, ad hominem accusations against the pro-gun movement as a whole, you're just making yourself look childish and uneducated.
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[NYURepublican]

Quote:They spew thr venom toward a decent woman whose husband was mowed down by one of the goon-guns pushed by the gun goons, a decent woman whose son was maimed for life by one of the Heston-endorsed weapons of death.

What happend to Rep. McCarthy's husband is tragic; but banning assault weapons would not have prevented it. In fact, had concealed-carry laws been more lax, and had there been a law-abiding citizen carrying a gun with him/her during the incident, that person could have killed or injured the assailant and McCarthy's husband might still be alive today. Again, I don't fault the Representative for having such an emotional response and wanting to ban more guns; perhaps I would feel the same way if it had been me in her place. But we should recognize that the emotional arguments she and others like her make are just that- based primarily on emotion and not facts.
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[main street]

We just disgaree on this. That's what makes the world go round......
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[main street]

I happen to agree with the conservative take on video games and movies. what does it say about our society when Matrix reloaded opens with a 93 million dollar weekend. These movies and videos are screwing up our kids bigtime...
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[Parent]

If you're so worried, don't let your kids watch'em and put together a boycott. There are no studies that directly correlate video. movie and TV violence with actual violence.

The problem is not Hollywierd. It's parents who refuse to watch thr kids or don't care. Just look at the Massapequa ball team reaction. Will underage trips to strip clubs cause boys to objectify women? Does anyone care as long as it doesn't interrupt the season?

[Parent]

Instead of banning weapons, the government should make them available in shooting galleries for the entire public. Thus "a well Regulated militia" will be provided by all those who wish to participate at taxpayer expense!

There's a tax and spend issue a Republican should love!

[main street]

It's a combination of access to things and parenting. When I was young we had 3 hours of cartoons on saturday. now they'res 24 hour cartoons, computers, cable, video's...It goes on and on..
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[main st. don't know squat]

whatever you say toughguy....I guess if all the real men were born 2oo years ago, that leaves you out now...

[NRA Member]

Main Street,
It is clear you do not know firearm terminology, but don't feel bad. I argue this issue frequently and most anti-gunners do not know correct terminology. However last month I had a in person conversation with Congressman Bishop about the assault rifle issue. He supports continuing the ban and he was presenting his reasons why when I stopped him and said, "What exactly is an assault rifle?" He stopped and smiled and said, "You know more about it than I do." I asked him how he can take ANY position on the assault rifle issue when he does not know what an assault rifle is. His aide, coincidentally called out, "Congressman...telephone"
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[The Juror]

Actually, the "real men of 200 years ago" just wanted to avoid taxes on thr favorite beverage.

[NRA Member]

To the juror,

April 19,1775
At dawn about 70 men of the local militia lined up on Lexington Green, west of Boston. Across from them, a company of British troops, SENT TO TAKE THR GUNS........A shot is fired........known as the shot heard around the world.......

You know the rest!
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[Loophole 1]

Do you think that when the forefathers sat down and wrote the second amendemnt, that they ever imagined that 12 year old kids would bring guns into there schools and wipe out there classmates? Do you think they ever would have written it if they did?

[NRA Member]

Loophole 1,
Unless you are presently incarcerated, you are free to leave this country and find another country that does not have a second amendment.
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[Black and Fed UP]

Did the founders take time off from thr SLAVE women to do thr founding? After they fired the shot heard round the world they went back to thr SLAVE women and made SLAVE hrs. They're still at it but we're not stupid any more.

[NRA Member]

Black and fed up,
An armed populace can never be enslaved. To be enslaved you must first be disarmed. History has shown that once you are disarmed there are fates that are arguably worse than enslavement. Our government does not give you the right to bear arms. The right to bear arms is a natural right that our government was instituted to PROTECT.
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[Loophole 1]

"Our government didn't give us the right to bear arms"......You guys are the one's preaching about the second amendment to the constitution all the time. you guys are completely off the wall....You think this is a "natural " right....

[NRA Member]

Loophole 1,
All living things have defense mechanisms. Humans are living things. The right to bear arms is a natural right than shall not be infringed. Once the defense mechanism is taken away or inadequate, enslavement, extermination or extinction will follow. This is as much a biological concept as a political concept. Obviously, the anti-gunners are naive, not only in political realities, but also biological concepts.
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[DroopyA]

"Did the founders take time off from thr SLAVE women to do thr founding? After they fired the shot heard round the world they went back to thr SLAVE women and made SLAVE hrs. They're still at it but we're not stupid any more."

It never seases to amaze me how an uneducated black man can stumble into a conversation that has nothing to do with race and shout "racisim". Newsflash! You were never a slave, I never owned a slave, in fact there hasn't been slavery in this country since 1817 (that's 186 years) so shut up nobody owes you anything. We're talking about guns and the ban on assualt riffels here so take your racist comments about the "white man" somewhere else.

Peace
-N473
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[The Juror]

Jeez, since there's hasn't been slavery in this country since 1817, I guess that little war between the states thingee was over whether Pauly Shore was funny.

[Wacky]

What're "assualt riffels"?

Bad guitar playing?

[Macky]

Hey Wacky,
If it ain't a pepper rifle....it's gotta be a salt rifle.
Anti-gunners don't know squat!

[NYURepublican]

Quote:You guys are the one's preaching about the second amendment to the constitution all the time. you guys are completely off the wall....You think this is a "natural " right....

All our rights are natural rights. (Except for the right to an abortion, which the Supreme Court fabricated out of thin air.) The government doesn't "give" rights to you, nor can it. It can only protect them or infringe on them. The "completely off-the-wall" concept of natural, God-given rights (including the right to bear arms) was one of the fundamental ideas upon which America was founded.
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[Black]

You people must be republicans in denial. We were slaves, our parents were slaves and thr parents were slaves, chained and sold and then re-sold like animals. But we're not stupid any more. You don't get it.

[DroopyA]

Quote:You people must be republicans in denial. We were slaves, our parents were slaves and thr parents were slaves, chained and sold and then re-sold like animals. But we're not stupid any more. You don't get it.

First off, thanks for point out my wrong year. I ment 1865. That's still 138 years. Not sure what I was thinking, long day I guess

Anyways, first let me ask you Black, what does Slavery have to do with the ban on assault riffles? Second, how were you a slave? Do you really expect me to believe that you're a 151 years old (assuming you have to be at l 13 to sign up for an account)? Third, I never owned a slave let alone you, so how do I owe you anything? With your mentality I can say that a Black man punched a white man in the face yesterday so you owe me.

Now, back to the topic at hand. From what I understand, assault rifles accounted for about 2-3% of all violent crimes before the ban and made up about 3% of the guns on the street. Although I can't think of any reason why one would NEED an assualt rifle, I don't see the danger in allowing a taxpaying, law abiding citizen to buy one.

- www.awbansunset.com/crime.html

Peace
-N473
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[Black]

My ancestors, chained and scorned slaves, were shot in the back trying to escape. You make light of that with your inane comparisons. You persist with an argument about guns while serious issues like race are covered over. We're not stupid. You people don't get it.

[NYURepublican]

If you're looking for a discussion solely about race, start a new thread instead of trying to change the subject of this one. I'll try to link the two issues, however:

If slaves had had the right to own guns, they would have been better equipped to fight for thr freedom. History shows that every form of subjugation begins by disarming the people to be subjugated.

Today, many (but not all) people of color live in poor, high-crime nghborhoods. I'm sure, Black, that you believe minority people living in such places cannot rely on the police for thr own protection. As I see it then, people of color have a special vested interest in seng the right to bear arms preserved, as access to a handgun can often be the first, last, and only line of defense against violent criminals. Your thoughts? Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/23/03 4:44:35 pm

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[Black]

Fools. White fools. If there wasn't such access to guns there wouldn't be such violent criminals. You people don't get it. You preach about the right to bear your precious guns while such guns are mowing down innocent blacks who won't make it past thr 25th birthday. You people don't get it. The violent criminals are out there because of guns.

[NYURepublican]

I don't even think I need to say anything in response to that. Your racism and lack of awareness about guns and crime shines through all on its own.
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[Medford]

Perhaps you have NOTHING to say? Black answered your comments and you go running with your tail tucked.
You must be an NRAer.

[NYURepublican]

Black didn't answer anything; I didn't ask him any questions. I just asked for his thoughts on whether or not people of color are served by having the right to bear arms. By his response, I assume he just thinks it's better if black people are unarmed and unable to defend themselves against violent criminals. That seems like a pretty racist position to me.

He did not address the point about slaves having weapons at all; he just went on an anti-white rant and made sweeping accusations. He also claims that guns somehow "make" criminals. Such claims speak for thr own idiocy; if you truly believe that criminals are criminals because of guns, nothing I could ever say would make you hear reason.

Again, I stress everyone who is NOT interested in racial demagoguery or lies about the gun debate to check out www.awbansunset.com. If you're going to challenge people, don't hurl slurs or accusations, attack the evidence supporting thr position. You're better equipped to do that if you have the facts. The website also includes links to anti-gun websites, if you want to educate yourself about the other side of the debate instead of just broadly dismissing all NRA supporters as crazy. But by all means, if that's all you want to do, then go ahead. It just makes the pro-gun crowd look better when we respond to your hyper-emotional rhetoric with hard facts. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/23/03 7:57:12 pm

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[NRA Member]

Black and Medford,
In America private ownership of firearms is a reality. Your choices are:
1)Get over it
2)Go to another country
3)PERSONALLY go around and confiscate peoples firearms. However please remember King George III tried that and failed. Maybe you heard about it.
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[Black]

NRA Member:

We're not stupid any more. Get over it or move. Period.

[NRA Member]

Black,
I do not see how your last post is related to the 1994 unconstitutional gun legislation that will sunset/expire in 2004. If you want to entertain other subjects you are free like everyone else to start a new topic. If it is interesting I'll post on your subject.
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[ON TARGET]

Just when do you people stop thinking this is all a joke and realize that kids are dying out there. The poeple in littleton Colorado and Springfield Oregon never thought kids were gonna walk into school and blow away half the class. enough of your second amendment rhetoric. They should rewrite the damn constitution and make it right so people stop dying..Enough of your bullcrap...
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[NRA Member]

on target,
You display a child-like mentality on this subject.

"From my cold dead hands"
-Charlton Heston-
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[ON TARGET]

child like mentality?...you mean some @#%$ like heston standing in front of a group holding a gun saying "from my cold dead hands" isn't childlike..It's not only childlike, it's sick, like the rest of you gun toting right wing yahoos.
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[NRA Member]

on target,
With all due respect, may I suggest you start your own thread on a subject in with you possess at l a miniscule amont of knowledge?
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[ON TARGET]

you're so far out of the mainstream it's not funny....Why is the NRA opposed to a three day waiting period to check and see if someone is competant to own a weapon..Answer me that?
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[Rabid antigunner]

The gun goons can't answer that because the answer sickens them: it would help get some of the illegal guns off our streets, out of the hands of our innocent children and perhaps some parents would be kept alive to raise thr children. The gun goons only know one thing: the gun. Killer guns. Guns that maim and cripple. Guns that deprive decent people of a safe environment. Gun goons need guns to get off.

[NRA Member]

on target and rabidanti-gunner,
Please go to the National Issues board and click on "The anti-gunners arguments" thread for your answer.
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[ON TARGET]

After Peter troy, a man with a long history of mental illness walked into a gun shop and got a gun without a check on his mental history, he proceeded to go to a church in Lynbrook and blow away a catholic priest..let's hear your answer. do you support a background check on mental history or not?
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[NRA Member]

on target,
I have already answered this inept point but here it is again.

It is like this. If you are:
a) a criminal-you belong in jail
b) mentally unsound-you belong in an institution
c) an illegal alien-you should be deported

But if you are a law-abiding citizen of the U.S. your second amendment rights shall not be infringed. Our nation was founded on the concept of limited government and to have that people must govern themselves and take responsibility for thr actions. With freedom comes responsibility. Criminals, the mentally unsound, and illegal aliens do not belong walking the streets of the U.S.

Was that simple enough for you to understand?
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[ON TARGET]

YOU BELIEVE THAT PETER TROY, REGARDLESS OF HIS HSITORY OF VIOLENCE AND MENTAL ILLNESS HAD EVERY RIGHT TO WALK INTO A GUN STORE, NOT HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH BACKGOUND CHECK DONE ON HIM, AND THEN WALK OUT WITH A RIFLE AND GO MURDER A CATHOLIC PRIEST...YOU'RE A SICK BASTARD NRA..
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[NRA Member]

on target,
Such a person shold not be walking the streets at all. If you are incarcerated or in an institution you obviously will not be able to walk into a gun store. However, the rights of law-abiding citizens shall not be infringed because someone demonstrates that they are not capable of self-governing themselves as required to exist in a free society.
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[ON TARGET]

So basicaslly any sick bastard with a history of mental illness and violence, who has committed felonies before still has the right to own a weapon in your mind. Nice.....
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[NRA Member]

on target,
Anyone who can not grasp the concept that the mentally unsound belong in an institution might try the following:
1)With yor right hand, grab your right ear
2)With your left hand, grab your left ear
3)Pull your head out of your rear end
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[ON TARGET]

Do you believe yes or no, a one word answer, that someone with a history of violence and mental illness should be permitted to walk into a gun shop and purchase the gun of his choice with no problem at all?...yes or no?
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[NRA Member]

on target,
NO, such a person sholud not be able to walk into a gun store and buy a gun because such a person should be in prison or in a mental institution and should not be walking around at all.
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[ON TARGET]

But if he is on the street with a severe history of mental illness, in your mind, should he have the right to bug a gun?
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[NRA Member]

on target,
In theory NO, but in reality there is no way to implement a system that will prevent such a person from legally buying a gun that does not infringe on the rights of law-abiding citizens. That is why criminals MUST be in prison and the mentally unsound MUST be in an institution.

[ON TARGET]

Don't tell me about "in theory"..yes or no in reality.
________
Female Advice Forum (http://www.love-help.org/female-advice/)

[NRA Member]

on target,
You don't have a question or the mentality to grasp an answer, if you did have a question. You do however illustrate the point that for effective communication to take place it is necessary for the involved participants to speak the same language. Have you ever heard of the English language?
________
Avandia death (http://classactionsettlements.org/)

[ON TARGET]

I didn't know they let the uni-bomber out!!!!
________
IPAD GUIDE (http://ipadguides.info)

[NYURepublican]

The NRA has always supported sensible methods of gun control, such as submitting to an instant FBI background check when purchasing a gun. If your record does not come back free of felony convictions, history of mental illness, or other red flags, you are denied the gun and the storeowner contacts the authorities immediately, because the very fact that you tried to buy a gun and were not qualified means you have broken the law. Instant background checks work very effectively, and don't infringe on the rights of sane, law-abiding citizens.

Waiting periods are problematic for people who want guns for personal protection, because they only prolong the time that law-abiding citizens are without a defense. Furthermore, they simply don't work. No state that has enacted waiting periods has ever been able to show an association with reduction in crime. After California increased its waiting period time, crime actually went up. Realistically, if you are dedicated to committing a gun-related offense like murder, is having to wait a few days really going to stop you? Mark David Chapman, the man who assassinated John Lennon, purchased and used a gun he bought in Hawaii, a state with very restrictive gun legislation including a waiting period. Waiting periods are a sneaky way of infringing on 2nd Amendment rights that anti-gunners like to promote because it makes them look like they are doing something about gun-related crime, when all they are in fact doing is moving further down the road towards total gun confiscation. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/26/03 10:30:30 pm

________
Blonde live (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/blonde-girls/)

[ON TARGET]

You stated that waiting periods are a sneaky way of infringing on people's second amendment rights. I guess they're also a sneaky way of making sure convicted felons with previous criminal pasts don't get guns also...Is that right?
________
DEPAKOTE LAWSUIT INFORMATION (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/depakote/)

[ON TARGET]

Why is the NRA opposed to gun free school zones?
________
LovelyWendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[NYURepublican]

Quote:I guess they're also a sneaky way of making sure convicted felons with previous criminal pasts don't get guns also...Is that right?

Did you bother to read anything I posted other than one sentence? Instant criminal background checks like those that use the national NICS registry are far preferable to waiting periods and they accomplish the goal much more effectively without forcing law-abiding citizens to be without defense.

Quote:Why is the NRA opposed to gun free school zones?

Because that means the only people carrying guns near schools will be people who don't care about the law anyway. Think about it: if some psycho kid wants to shoot a bunch of his classmates in a Columbine-like scenario, is the "gun-free school zone" sign really going to stop him? On the other hand, if a law-abiding teacher with a legally-owned gun leaves it at home because he/she doesn't want to violate the gun-free zone, he/she is powerless to stop that same psycho if and when he opens fire in school.
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA VAPORIZER VOLCANO (http://vaporizer.org/reviews/)

[ON TARGET]

you guys have an excuse why every sensible idea shouldn't be carried out..you guys are just amazing....Don't you work in the West school district Adolph?
________
Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[ON TARGET]

Are you a janitor in West ?
________
Free fuck tubes (http://www.fucktube.com/)

[NYURepublican]

Quote:you guys have an excuse why every sensible idea shouldn't be carried out..you guys are just amazing....

What you call an excuse I call logical reasoning...and the fact that you must resort to name-calling instead of forming a salient counter-argument shows the lack of substance for your position. It's ironic that you call me "Adolph", because Hitler was actually a proponent of gun control. Read your history; confiscating the guns of German Jews was one of the first steps of the Holocaust. Effectively disarmed, the Jews had no defense when the Nazi stormtroopers came to round them up. The few who did manage to hold on to some guns were able to hold the Nazis off for a while, but with the majority of Jews disarmed a popular uprising was impossible. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/27/03 2:05:40 pm

________
California Dispensary (http://california.dispensaries.org/)

[ON TARGET]

I guess you know just about everything don't you?
________
Ipad Accessories (http://accesoriesipad.com/)

[NYURepublican]

Quote:I guess you know just about everything don't you?

I wouldn't say that. I think I've pretty much demonstrated that I know more about the facts of this issue than you do, though. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/27/03 3:57:05 pm

________
Marijuana Card (http://medicalmarijuanacard.info)

[ON TARGET]

I can look at the issue and say that I think people have the right to bear arms, but in some cases, I don't think they should have a right to. you just have a simply bull-headed right wing Bob barr attitude that only your right.
________
WENDIE 99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[NYURepublican]

That may have something to do with the fact that I can produce hard facts and logic supporting my conclusions whereas you have yet to do so. Don't feel bad though, you're not alone; I've yet to meet a single person on the other side of the gun debate that can argue thr position factually without resorting to rhetoric.

I too feel that certain people (criminals and the insane) don't have the right to bear arms; we just have different ideas about how to prevent those people from getting guns. Your solution infringes on the the rights of law-abiding citizens. Mine doesn't. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/27/03 6:28:35 pm

________
Web shows (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[ON TARGET]

Of course only you deal in facts, no one else's point of view is right according to you. I don't have time to waste on you . Your wrong on most counts.
________
Trichomes Pictures (http://trichomes.org)

[NYURepublican]

::yawn:: Whatever. It's always easier to cry "You're wrong" and run away when you know you can't make an argument.

This is almost like shooting fish in a barrel. Any other anti-gunners want to pitch to me, so I can keep knocking 'em out of the park? Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/27/03 7:41:28 pm

________
Live Sex (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[ON TARGET]

Obviously you have a Napoleon complex and think your gun is your penis.
________
Pregnant fetish (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/906/fetish/videos/1)

[NYURepublican]

That's good. The obligatory Freudian phallic reference from the anti-gun side. Hardly unexpected, but yet another sign of the weakness of your argument. Didn't you say you didn't have any time for me? Be gone with you. Come back when you have a relevant point to make instead of a witless one-liner.

Seriously, if there's any anti-gunner on this board who wants to have a legitimate policy debate with me, I'm all ears. Just do your homework first. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/27/03 9:58:08 pm

________
WEB SHOWS (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[ON TARGET]

what's your problem with ballistic fingerprinting?
________
oxygen vaporizer (http://oxygenvaporizer.com)

[NYURepublican]

Nothing...except that it doesn't work. Millions have been spent on setting up ballistic fingerprinting databases, but not a single crime has been solved because of it. You can easily modify a gun's so-called "fingerprint" with little effort, so the only thing a ballistic fingerprint registry does is create a database of law-abiding gun owners...pretty pointless, unless it's the first step toward confiscating everyone's guns. All of the following would have to happen in order for a national ballistic fingerprint registry to work:

- All 200 million+ lawfully owned firearms are turned into labs and fired to get thr fingerprints.
- All violent criminals or potential criminals also bring in thr guns for fingerprinting.
- All fingerprint files are stored in a national database
- The barrels and firing pins of all the fingerprinted weapons are never modified, replaced, or falsely marked-up
- A bullet or shell casing is recovered from the crime scene where a fingerprinted weapon was used
- The bullet or shell casing conclusively matches the fingerprint of a gun owned by a person registered in the database
- The gun has not been sold, stolen, or transferred
- The person (now a criminal suspect) still owns the gun at the current address

With all these nigh-impossible criteria, it's no wonder that states with ballistic fingerprinting like New York and Maryland have never been able to use it successfully to solve a crime. Ballistic fingerprinting is a waste of taxpayer money and government effort, and like so many other anti-gunner schemes, it impacts not criminals but law-abiding gun owners.
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Wetdione live (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/Wetdione)

[BOOCHEE]

I WILL TRY TO MAKE THIS SIMPLE SO THAT EVEN A PERSON LIKE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND. THE LAST TIME I HEARD THIS IS STILL A FREE COUNTRY. I CAN MAKE ANY CHOICE THAT I WANT ABOUT ANYTHING. LIKE IF A WANT TO BUY A SUV INSTEAD OF A CAR I CAN OR IF I WANT TO LIVE IN NEW JERSEY INSTEAD OF NEW YORK I CAN, AND IF I WANT TO OWN AN ASSAULT RIFLE I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO SO. AS LONG AS I ABIDE BY THE LAWS OF THE STATE THAT I LIVE IN AND BE ALLOWED TO USE IT IN A SAFE MANNER LIKE TARGET SHOOTING OR HANG IT ON A WALL OR PUT IT IN A FLOWER POT. THAT SHOULD BE MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT AS A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY. DO WE BLAME EVERY DRIVER OF A CAR FOR THE 50,OO0 PLUS DEATHS ON OUR HIGHWAYS? THE ANSWER IS NO, THE SAME SHOULD APPLY TO THE OVER 25 MILLION GUN OWNERS.THEY SHOULD NOT BE PUT INTO THE SAME MOLD OF A FEW NUTS. BESIDES THERE ARE NOT TO MANY OF US THAT CAN AFFORD THE $500 TO $1500 PRICE TAG FOR ONE OF THESE GUNS. BUT AGAIN LET ME SAY THAT AS LONG AS I AM NOT GOING TO HARM ANYONE LET ME MAKE MY OWN CHOICE.

[BOOCHEE]

1 AM WITH YOU 100 PERCENT, BUT FIRST LETS BAN THE FOLLOWING.
1-CARS THAT KILL 50,000 PLUS PERSONS A YEAR
2-PLANE ACCIDENTS,THAT KILL THOUSANDS, LETS BAN PLANES
3-KNIFES-BASEBALL BATS-HAMERS-ETC,LETS BAN THEM BECAUSE PEOPLE USE THEM TO KILL OTHER PEOPLE
4-PUBLIC AND BACK YARD POOLS, THOUSANDS DROWN EVERY YEAR, LETS BAN THEM.
5-MOTOR BIKES AND MOTOR BOATS KILL PEOPLE, LETS BAN THEM. THE DAY THAT YOU BAN ALL OF THE ABOVE WILL BE THE DAY THAT I WILL CANCEL MY N.R.A. MEMBERSHIP

[uhhuh]

Take a few valium and go to sleep

[SuffolkMD]

On Target,

I know you have been getting beat-up, so I won't beat you up. However, the posters here are making logical arguments on many fronts.

First, your concern is for convicted felons bng allowed to walk into gun stores and buy guns. Your main concern should be "why do we have convicted felons roaming our streets in the first place?". If they are that untrustworthy, should they not be in society? If they have been let out into society, it is generally agreed that they have been "rehabilitated". If they are, they should have thr rights restored, if they are not, they should remain in prison. Also, all felonies are not the same. Although I agree that a rapist, robber, or murderer should not be allowed to have a gun, I also believe that a woman who has committed securities fraud should not be denied her right to self defense. Nor should a man who was convicted of tax evasion. Nor an 18 year old who, as a way to get out of a test, called in a "bomb scare" (a felony in NYS). When he's 40 and needs to protect his family, he should be allowed to.

Second thing is that people are using "mental illness" too broadly. While a paranoid schizophrenic may be dangerous with a gun, people with mild anxiety or depression, which are most of your nghbors, are functioning fine with thr "mental illness". Should they be denied thr civil rights?

SuffolkMD

________
Laguna (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Laguna)

[ON TARGET]

getting beat up by who?..right wing gun fanatics who most of the country think are crazy anyway. Fact of the matter is, if you guys spent more time worrying about who had the guns and not defending there right to have them, more people would be alive today and that my MD, is a fact.....all you have have to do is watch the film of charlton Heston holding up a rifle at an NRA meeting in a public forum, and that sums it all up...
________
Home Made Vaporizer (http://homemadevaporizers.info/)

[main street]

On Target, what more would you expect from these guys. thr whole lives are built around defending guns no matter how much violence it causes in the society. you really think they give a damn how many kids are killed every year by there friends in the NRA who leave loaded weapons around the house unlocked?.As long as Lapierre and the boys get on TV and defend gun rights, they don't give a damn what happened in Littleton, Pearl miss, and these other places. They'll just say it's the video games that caused it, not the fact that these jerks have there kids dressed up in camaflouge outfits giving them there first gun on christmas day when there 7 years old.
________
Ship sale (http://ship-sale.com/)

[NYURepublican]

Quote:They'll just say it's the video games that caused it, not the fact that these jerks have there kids dressed up in camaflouge outfits giving them there first gun on christmas day when there 7 years old.

Main street, I've been shooting guns since I was a kid, and I've never killed anyone. Why? Because I trained how to use a gun responsibly, my parents were responsible and supervised me well, and I was taught to respect the law. Guns did not make the Columbine kids et al. go on a killing rampage; you are talking about an very isolated, psychotic portion of the population that could have been prevented from doing what they did if the people around them had heeded the warning signs. In any case, why should the Constitutional rights of millions be infringed because a few individuals broke the law? Should we outlaw gasoline and matches because there are arsonists who use them to set fires and kill people?


Ontarget: nice rhetoric, but again, it just doesn't jibe with the facts. Expanding gun rights causes more people to be killed or injured? Then how do you explain how in every statistical study that's been done, places with restrictive gun control laws always have higher rates of violent crime, and places with permissive gun laws have lower rates of violent crime? Go out and find me a single piece of evidence that links looser gun control with increased crime. You can't do it, because it's simply not true. Everywhere in the world where guns are taken out of the hands of law-abiding citizens-New York City, England, Australia- crime ALWAYS goes on to increase. Facts are the key to winning this argument my friend, and as long as the pro-2nd Amendment crowd keeps responding to your empty lies with them, you can never win.

You've asked about my views, and since turnabout is fair play, I'd like to flip this back to you and ask you a few questions:
How can you account for the statistical truth that more gun freedom means less crime?
Why do you support ballistic fingerprinting?
Why do you support waiting periods but not instant background checks?
Why do you think the NRA supports violent felons or the mentally ill owning guns, when for years the NRA has always supported sensible legislation that stops these people from owning weapons, without trampling on the Bill of Rights for lawful folks?
Why are you so intent on dismissing pro-gun people as raving lunatics, while you yourself have not been able to provide a shred of evidence for any of your beliefs?

This is the test. You can ther take the time to respond meaningfully to all the points I've made, or you can simply issue another sweeping denunciation of NRA members as idiot Nazis before turning tail. I've been driving this dialogue for too long, my friend: the ball's in your court. Main street, you or any other anti-gunner who'd like to respond with facts instead of straw man arguments, you're welcome to do so as well. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/29/03 10:37:05 pm

________
Park Royal 2 Condos Prathumnak (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

[main street]

I support a waiting period instead of instant background checks because I think there needs to be a cooling off period for those who need to calm down a little after they fly off the handle and consider doing something rash. Anyone who wants to purchase a gun for hunting or other reasons can certainly afford to wait a couple of days. I support ballistic fingerprinting cause it gives law enforcement the ability to link the bullet to the gun through technology designed to enter marks from a bullet or shell casing into a computer database. I know what the NRA arguments are against these things , but the NRA will go against any basic idea designed to infringe on the right to bear arms, so they'res no need for you to go into your argument again. Peter troy walked into a gun shop and purched a gun and killed a catholic priest. You guys seem to think that doing a mental health background check infringes on the rights of psychopaths with a history of violence. Why else would you think that the NRA has such a bad reputation in this country? you can't get up in front of mainstream america like Heston did and hold up a rifle like he did. It really doesn't help your cause. Everyone thought he was nuts.
________
OREGON DISPENSARY (http://oregon.dispensaries.org/)

[NYURepublican]

Quote:I support a waiting period instead of instant background checks because I think there needs to be a cooling off period for those who need to calm down a little after they fly off the handle and consider doing something rash.

As I've noted before, waiting periods have never been linked to reduce crime rates. Mark David Chapman bought a gun in Hawaii which had a waiting period, and that didn't "cool him off" before he killed John Lennon.

Quote:I support ballistic fingerprinting cause it gives law enforcement the ability to link the bullet to the gun through technology designed to enter marks from a bullet or shell casing into a computer database.

Not even the Fraternal Order of Police supports ballistic fingerprinting, and rightly so, because as I've noted, fingerprints can be altered easily and no crime has ever been solved because of ballistic fingerprinting despite the millions poured into the program.

Quote:You guys seem to think that doing a mental health background check infringes on the rights of psychopaths with a history of violence.

Again, just keep repeating this lie, and maybe eventually someone will think it's true. The NRA does not, has not, will never support people with violent tendencies or history of mental illness owning guns. That's one of the reasons why we support instant background checks. For crying out loud, this really is like talking to a wall sometimes.

Quote:Why else would you think that the NRA has such a bad reputation in this country?

With whom does the NRA have a bad reputation in America? With the roughly 50% of Americans that vote conservative? With the tens of millions of American gun owners? Even Democrats are starting to ease up on gun control, because they're realizing it's no longer a winning issue for them: Bill Clinton admitted that the historic 1994 Republican takeover of Congress largely occurred because Democrats were insensitive to gun owners. The real reason the NRA has a negative image is because the mainstream media is so biased and so good at portraying us as absurd wackos; the fact that you and others keep mouthing baseless anti-NRA propaganda (like, "the NRA wants psychopaths to own guns") is a testament to how successful they've been. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/30/03 3:12:43 pm

________
Ocean View Condos (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

[SuffolkMD]

On Target,

That response was a little too harsh. I was merely presenting positions that you may not have thought of. I am not a "right wing gun fanatic" and I'm certainly not "crazy". I am a mentally stable physician that happens to be a proud NRA member. I am, however, fanatical about the Bill or Rights, which you and Main Street should be.

"...if you guys spent more time worrying about who had the guns and not defending the right to have them, more people would be alive today and that, my MD, is a fact...."

Well, it doesn't sound like a fact to me. If it is, then it must be recorded in some report. Please provide the source of this "fact" and I will consider it.

Main Street,

Contrary to what you think you know, gun owners who have children do not leave thr guns loaded and unlocked in reach of thr children. If you can show any proof of your statement, I will consider it.

And NRA members do care about what happened in Littleton and Pearl. That's why we oppose the insane "Gun-free school Zone". It seems that the only place now that people are bng massacred are in places where no law-abiding citizen can carry his gun. Don't you agree that if there were law-abiding gun owners, say teachers that were carrying thr guns on school grounds, the outcome would have been a whole lot different, say the two shooters dead instead?

Suffolk MD
________
TOYOTA IPSUM HISTORY (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_Ipsum)

[main street]

right Suffolk, they'res no basis in fact or history of gun owners leaving there guns unlocked and accidents happening in the home where children get killed...What planet are you on exactly?....
you don"t hear about this every other week somewhere in the country?......Why don't you tell the parishioners in Our Lady of Peace church in Lynbrook that had to duck bullets from Peter troy's rifle that mentally incompetant violent people should be entitled to own a weapon...The argument's you guys use to defend guns borders on illness itself....
________
Zx14 vs hayabusa (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_bike_is_quicker_kawasaki_zx_-14_or_suzuki_hayabusa)

[NYURepublican]

Quote:The argument's you guys use to defend guns borders on illness itself....

At l we HAVE arguments! Look at what you've been doing: you just responded to well-thought out post based entirely on facts with by throwing out some ridiculous emotion-laced rhetoric about an isolated incident.

The fact that a priest was gunned to death is tragic. But if he were stabbed and not shot, would you support the banning of all knives? If he burned to death because of an arsonist, should we ban fire? Really, how does your warped sense of logic compute that?


Quote:..let's hear your answer. do you support a background check on mental history or not?

I've answered this question about 50 times throughout this thread. The NRA supports sensible, instant background checks to determine whether a person is fit, legally and mentally to purchase a gun. I don't understand what it is with you, but why can't you get it through your head that the NRA does NOT want crazy people to own guns! Forget it. I give up. Propaganda has completely corrupted your mind to the point that you cannot formulate a coherent argument. It really is amazing! It's almost like you liberals have a mental block that forces your mind to shut down and resort to lies when you're presented with clear, rational evidence that directly contradicts your point of view. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/30/03 5:23:42 pm

________
CALIFORNIA MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES (http://california.dispensaries.org/)

[main street]

Do you guys actually have a life, or is everything in your life devoted to defending the right to bear arms. you have no idea how many members I know who are in the NRA who are totally embarassed by guys like you....Don't lecture me that my arguments are incoherent just because you can't support a 3 day background check or ballistic fingerprinting.....Watching heston on stage with that rifle was the greatest thing that ever happened to the anti-gun movement...what a complete embarassment..
________
Mario Almondo (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Mario_Almondo)

[main street]

Didn't our former President George Bush Sr. resign from the NRA? what was the reason for that?
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WENDIE 99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[NRA Member]

Main Street,
Most gun owners are single-issue voters. That means we would be hard to beat even if the other side had a valid argument. Since the second amendment is absolute, the anti-gunners have taken an indefinsible position and have no valid argument. Period.

"From my cold dead hands"
-Charlton Heston-
________
Vaporizer vidoes (http://vaporizers.tv/)

[NYURepublican]

whatever, main street. You don't understand that when you get down to it, it's not about guns. It's about freedom. Right-to-carry laws have been sweeping through more and more states for years, anti-gun lawsuits are bng shut down left and right, and even Democrats are shrinking from thr once hard-line anti-gun positions. You guys are losing the war you declared on the Bill of Rights. It's a great time to be a supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/30/03 8:20:17 pm

________
ZOLOFT LAWSUIT (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/zoloft/)

[main street]

no one's shrinking from anything and we're not losing anything. that's a great law in texas that gives you the right to carry a gun into a church, isn't it? You guys have been losing the battle for years, and it's just getting worse and worse, cause anyone with a normal mind thinks you guys are off the wall.
________
Coach Purses (http://icoachhandbags.com/)

[main street]

you never told me why bush sr. resigned, and by the way, where are the weapons of mass destruction?
________
Kohls gift card (http://bestfreegiftcard.com/kohls-gift-card/)

[NYURepublican]

Quote:You guys have been losing the battle for years, and it's just getting worse and worse

Oh, really?
pub168.ezboard.com/fannco...4662.topic

Quote:that's a great law in texas that gives you the right to carry a gun into a church, isn't it?

So, you think it would be better if only non-law abiding people could carry a gun into a church? You know what, main st., you're right. Once this law, and all other laws that allow average citizens to carry guns legally are taken off the books, gun violence will disappear overnight, just like it did in England and Australia.

Quote:you never told me why bush sr. resigned

Personally, I don't know whether or not he resigned and quite frankly I couldn't care less why he is or isn't a member. The NRA is still around and is still flourishing.

Quote:and by the way, where are the weapons of mass destruction?

Ooh, you're a clever one. What's the matter, realize that you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument, so you'd like to change the subject? Yeah, I'd probably want to if I were you, too.
________
COLORADO MEDICAL MARIJUANA (http://colorado.dispensaries.org/)

[main street]

Stevens vs. U.S. 1971, "the right to bear arms applies only to the right of a state militia. there can be no serious claim to any express right for an individual to possess a firearm"
U.S. Vs. Miller 1934, Hickman case, Lewis Vs. U.S., time and time again, U.S. courts have ruled that the right to bear arms only applies to a state militia, and that militia, since 1903 is in the form of the national guard.
As far as your ideas about home protection in an Emory University survey of 388 homes that experienced homicides while having a gun in the home,78% of those homicides were due to domestic disputes and alcohol, only 3.6% were due to citizens defending there homes in home break ins. your argument about having a firearm in the home to defend yourself goes right out the window my friend...
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Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[NYURepublican]

So your best argument is to put forth 30+ year old court cases and point to a single statistical study of less than 400 homes? Your point is bogus; the study only deals with homicides. In thousands of cases of home defense, the gun owner only wounds the assailant or simply brandishes a weapon without firing it. The fact that there were a certain number of gun homicides related to domestic disputes or alchol proves absolutely nothing about the larger policy questions, especially given such a small statistical sample. Is this your best rationale for wanting to outlaw all guns? If you really want to impress me, try finding a study that shows that banning guns leads to a decrease a crime. Oh, wait, that's right...you can't, because that's not true. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/31/03 1:48:33 pm

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KID PRILOSEC (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/prilosec/)

[main street]

NYU,
Testy aren't we my friend!!!..now that I bring home some hard facts after you accused me of having no basis for my argument, you start to get a little hot under the collar and can't handle the heat...I've never seen you like this before...
________
Crosman Hunting Grains Pointed 1250Ct (http://airsoft-shop.info/p/crosman-hunting-grains-pointed-1250ct/)

[main street]

After a handgun ban in Japan, with a population of one hundred and twenty million, there were only 39 gun deaths in a year. does that tell you anything Charlton?
________
Nexium sickness (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/nexium/)

[ON TARGET]

Are we all part of a "well regulated militia", as it states in the second amendment?...As I read it, it gives no one but a regulated militia the right to bear arms, therefore in all actuallity, guns are illegal for private citizens to possess.
________
GRANNY MOVIES (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/23/granny/videos/1)

[NYURepublican]

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms..."

So, everywhere else in the Bill of Rights, "the people" means every American citizen, except in the 2nd Amendment, where it doesn't. Riiiight. Go back and read contemporaneous statements from the Framers, on target. The "militia" means every able-bodied citizen capable of defending themselves.

"Who is the Militia? They consist now of the whole people". - George Mason

""To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." ..."A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves. " - Richard Henry Lee

"A well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."- James Madison

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Thr swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. What clause in the state or [federal] constitution hath given away that important right. . . . [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of ther the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."

-Tench Coxe

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Main street, no one's hot under the collar. You cited a single, small study dealing specifically with homicides in the home; that's not particularly relevant to the issue writ large. If you really wanted to get me riled up, you could've done a lot better. Why don't you do some research on the violent crime rates in England and Australia, pre- and post-gun ban? Then get back to me. I'm not aware of the specific study you're talking about with regard to Japan, but violent crime has always been notoriously low in that country. "39 deaths in a year"? What year? What was the death rate prior to the ban? If you're trying to show a statistical correlation, you have to know what the situation was before guns were confiscated; otherwise your point is meaningless. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 5/31/03 4:59:46 pm

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[main street]

NYU, have you posted bail for Eric Rudolph yet?
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[Levittown Cowboy]

Nice job Main. This guys needs to get a life.

[NYURepublican]

Personal insults are the tools of an immature, frustrated debater... Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/1/03 12:02:13 pm

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[main street]

NYU, Having dinner with Eva Braun tonight?
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[NYURepublican]

Keep 'em coming, my friend. You're only making yourself look puerile.
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[Mylezylez]

I'm not sure where I stand on the gun ownership issue. I mean, Canada owns more guns (percentage-wise) than the US, yet has a MUCH less significant gun related death problem than the US.

But, I would like to ask how many of you NRA members out there actually feel your gun serves a useful purpose? Have you ever used it to defend yourself (a common reason for owning a gun)?

I do however that the constitution was written at a time when guns were more necessary tools in people's everyday lives. But that was before the industrial age, even. Now, there are too many people, and guns are so obsolete as tools of living that the only reason I can concve of for owning one in this day and age is because you're afraid someone else is going to shoot you first. And I don't need to remind anyone here how much good comes from fearing your nghbor.


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[SuffolkMD]

Main Street (and on target):

The Constitution was not written for judges, it was written for all the people. Therefore, I don't need a judge to interpret it for me.

Again, false facts are bng introduced here. The US v. Miller decision of 1939 did not say once that the right to keep and bear arms only applied to the state's right to maintain a militia.

But even if it did, who is the militia? According to Main Street, since 1903, it is the National Guard. Again, another false fact.

US Code, Title 10, Sec. 311: Militia: Composition and classes:

The Militia of the United States of America consists of all able-bodied males at l 17 years of age, and except as provided in Sec. 313 of Title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States, and of female citizens of the US who are members of the National Guard.

The classes of the militia are:
1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia, and
2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval militia.

New york State Military Law, Article 1, Sec. 2

Militia of state; composition and classes:

1) The militia of the state shall be divided into the organized militia, the state reserve list, the state retired list and the unorganized militia. The organized militia shall be composed of the NY Army National Guard, the NY Air National Guard, the inactive National Guard, the NY Naval Militia, the NY Guard....

2) The unorganized militia shall consist of all able-bodied male residents of the state between the ages of 17 and 45 who are not serving in any force of the organized militia and who are not on the state reserve list, or the state retired list....

Any questions?

SuffolkMD
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[NRA Member]

SuffolkMD,
I have answered several posts from "on target" and "main street" covering many different aspects of the 2nd amendment/gun issues. ther they have a comprehension problem or they are competing with each other as to how many times they can ask the same question or who can ask the more ridiculous question. I argue 2nd amendment issues all the time and most anti-gunners lack knowledge and as such resort to name calling. However "on target" and "main street" (if they really are 2 different posters) are well below average, even in the anti-gun community of the ignorant.
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[SuffolkMD]

Mylezylez,

Yes, my guns serve many useful services.

1) Hunting. It helps feed my family healthy food that hasn't been tampered with for quite a while. What excess I may be lucky enough to take goes to the Venison Donation Program in NY, where it is distributed to feed the homeless and hungry.

2) Self-defense. At l in my home, so my family is safe from bad guys. I'm still hoping that NY gets with the rest of the country to allow carrying, so that I may protect them outside of the home.

3) Defense of liberty for "the people" such as you, Main Street, NYU Republican, on target, and myself when the government decides to become a despotism.

You should not make the mistake of dismissing the Bill of Rights just because we live in a different time. This is specifically why the Anti-Federalists fought so hard to get it included in the Constitution.

Should we dismiss the 3rd amendment protection against the quartering of soldiers in your home, just because we have built Army bases?

Should we not apply the freedom of the press simply because there were no TV's in 1787?

Since crime is higher now than in 1787, should we eliminate the fourth amendment protection and allow "stop and search" on the street?

What you asked is certainly not an insignificant question, it requires very deep reflection.

Governments control the military and the police agencies. Right now, if you don't like policy, you vote for the other party of our "two-party" system.

What will happen when the 500 members of Congress decide that it's not worth fighting each other. That they should agree. Agree to eliminate elections, thereby making thr power permanent. agree to censor every press that doesn't agree with them, so that no one knows how bad they really are. Agree that the only true religion is the Protestant religion and all others are outlawed. Agree that in order to keep an eye on you, they will quarter a soldier at your house, etc. What can you do? You can't vote them out, so what do you do?

Isn't this where a rebellion would be in order? How can you rebel, though, if half of the people that are bng oppressed willingly assisted the government in disarming the whole population, rendering everyone helpless against the government's armies?

SuffolkMD
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[NYURepublican]

Quote:But, I would like to ask how many of you NRA members out there actually feel your gun serves a useful purpose? Have you ever used it to defend yourself (a common reason for owning a gun)?

Mylezylez: Clearly, you're never gone hunting or enjoyed a good day of target shooting. There are many reasons to own guns, recreational purposes bng just one of them. However, self-defense is the most important reason, and I'm confused as to why you dismiss it so readily. If guns are as obsolete as you say they are, why are criminals not turning them in?

For lots of folks, guns are the first, last, and only line of defense. The police can't be everywhere, and the courts have ruled repeatedly that they are not responsible for your personal safety. Police are responsible for the general security of a community; the only person who is responsible for your own physical security is YOU. If you feel that guns are obsolete in today's day and age, and are unnecessary for your own sense of security, that's perfectly fine. No one says you have to own a gun. But that doesn't give you (or the government) the right to make a value judgment on me or anyone else and deny me the right to defend myself, simply because I've made the decision that I don't want to roll over and die if and when me or my loved ones are faced with a violent home intruder, rapist, or other such miscreant.

Hope that helps you understand a little bit of where the pro-gun folks are coming from, Mylez. Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/2/03 4:40:45 pm

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[SuffolkMD]

NRA Member,

Reading the latest posts, I am starting to agree with you. However, I am always willing to educate the uneducated, with the help of yourself and NYURepublican.

It amazes me how people are just so willing to actually fight to GIVE UP thr rights.

Liberals in the sixties fought to GAIN more rights and freedoms. Now these same liberals are trying to destroy the constitution, instead of expanding it. And the general population that supports them, who claim to be intelligent and free-thinking, actually go to battle to have thr freedoms taken away with little or no thought on the subject, hence the falsehoods that we hear so often. Doesn't make sense.

SuffolkMD
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[ON TARGET]

I guess the aryian nation is alive and well on Long Island
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[NYURepublican]

Butt out, ontarget, unless you've got something relevant to say. Need I remind you how your own feelings on gun control are more in line with Nazi ideology than the NRA's? Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/2/03 9:47:20 pm

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[ON TARGET]

You really need to start realizing that they'res more to life than spending hours ranting about the 2nd amendment. This seems to be your whole reason for living. Perhaps a little croquet game with David Duke may sooth your mind a little.
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[Levittown Cowboy]

Classic line Target.!!!!!!!!!

[gfclegalman]

I have been a republican for my entire adult life and I believe in the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms. However, my argument is not with the ownership of guns but who actually owns them. The one argument that I have with the NRA is that background checks should be tough and stringent and if this causes some inconvenience to the average citizen, so be it. Now, I'm going to be honest and admit that I am not the most informed person regarding the gun debate but I have been affected by it was my cousin was shot and killed after he opened the door to a convicted felon. I am not naive and if you realize that if someone desperately wants to get a gun, they will get one. However, the average citizen (felon or not) become the dangerous weapon whether they own a 22 caliber for automatic assault rifle. So, I would like to hear everyone's feelings on background checks and maybe some of you can inform me on how difficult it actually is to purchase a gun

[main street]

I believe in a three day waiting period and very strong background checks to check for criminal records and history of mental illness.
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[NYURepublican]

Quote:The one argument that I have with the NRA is that background checks should be tough and stringent and if this causes some inconvenience to the average citizen, so be it.

The FBI recently reported that 90% of all gun buyers are screened through the NICS instant background check system, which is an excellent sign for those proponents of sensible gun legislation. There's no reason for unduly long background checks when your mental health/criminal record can be screened instantly via computer.
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[gfclegalman]

Aren't the remaining 10% of the gun buyers that do not go through the checks the ones that we should be worried about?

[NYURepublican]

I'd be happy to see 100% screened; but you have to admit that 90% is a great achievement. The DOJ is also working on smoothing out the remaining 9-10%: www.foxnews.com/story/0,2...61,00.html Edited by: NYURepublican at: 6/6/03 10:36 pm

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[TheRealThing]

Why should I have easy access to a gun?

Because I might have to defend myself from idiots who feel like I do and also absolutely need a gun to feel secure.

More people die from accidents and domestic quarrels with guns than by actual criminals trying to harm others. But give up our gun? Never!

Why doesn't this happen in Canada?

Because the media isn't trying to scare people there into thinking that it is unsafe to walk the streets because they're all kinds of coloured people there. Because they don't have rolemodels like Bush there who urge people to shoot first and ask questions later. First we pass judgement and sentence, then we look if we might find evidence to acutally back this up. Bush is an expert at that with his record-breaking executions in Texas.

Why isn't Iraq allowed to have WMD's and the US is? Because the (irrelevant) U.N. told so?

I'm repeating myself, but yet again: double standards and hypocrisy beyond belief.
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[NYURepublican]

Quote:More people die from accidents and domestic quarrels with guns than by actual criminals trying to harm others. But give up our gun? Never!

Wrong. Get off your butt and look at the real statistics. Other logical gun advocates and I have rebutted most of the rest of your senseless assertions throughout this thread, I suggest you glance back through them.
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[ON TARGET]

hey, maybe we should make the new NRA president one of those responsible gun owners like Phil spector or Jayson williams..!!!!!!........Even better, how about Robert Blake!!!!!!!
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[NYURepublican]

ontarget, you don't get much ass, do you?
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[SuffolkMD]

Legalman, et. al.

The reason the other 10% don't go through a NICS background check is because they go through a state background check, such as here in NY. A Pistol license holder has gone through a very stringent 4- to 6-month background check before she gets her license. This is more stringent than the federal NICS check, so it doesn't need to be duplicated at the gun store.

Since some of you are so obsessive about a background check bng the answer to your prayers, then you must concede this:

If I go through your background check, which I did, and I am found to be an honest, law-abiding citizen with no criminal record and no mental illness, which I was, and I am granted a license to own a pistol, then you should have no problem letting me carry it with me for protection. So why is it still that with all this background checking, I still cannot carry my weapon?

SuffolkMD
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[SuffolkMD]

Legalman,

I'm sorry for the loss of your cousin. I don't normally like to debate people about thr personal losses, but since you brought it up as background for your opinion, then I regretfully must rebut.

If you are truly not naive, as you say you are, then even you must know that if guns were entirely eliminated from the earth, your cousin would have opened up the door and had a knife stuck in his chest, or a rope around his neck.

In other words, he still would be dead. If someone wants you dead, it doesn't matter what weapon is used. What was warranted here is to allow your cousin to have his weapon on HIM, to defend himself. Then he would be alive, and not the guy who killed him.

If you don't know this to be the truth, then you are truly "naive".

SuffolkMD
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[ON TARGET]

what a compassionate human bng...kind of like charlton heston
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[ON TARGET]

more than you ever did Charlton
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[NYURepublican]

You may be interested in checking John Lott, Jr.'s The Bias Against Guns; he's an economist who's debunked many statistical myths concerning the gun debate. The book highlights his research and notes how the media have effectively squelched nearly all positive perception of guns by the public due to egregious underreporting of the 2 million+ instances of defensive gun use that occur yearly in America. An excellent book for anyone looking to balance out rhetoric and agenda-driven stats with the truth.
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[SuffolkMD]

Thanks, NYU

I probably will get it. I read More Guns, Less Crime and found it to be very insightful.

How 'bout you Mylez, Main Street, On Target? Will you read it, or are you afraid of the truth?

SuffolkMD
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[main street]

No interest in reading NRA propoganda..
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[NYURepublican]

Typical left-winger.

"Bng unable to articulate the other side's argument doesn't make you an idiot. It makes you a liberal." - Ann Coulter
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