You can NEVER have Homeland Security with....

[No Affiliation]

You can never have Homeland Security with open borders and millions of illegal aliens in the nation. If one were to assume that President Bush is aware of this fact, then one must assume that President Bush does not care about Homeland Security and the well bng of the American people he is sworn to protect.
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[Mylezylez]

I haven't really explored this issue myself, but may I ask why illegal aliens are such a threat to this country?

I've always felt that it's the companies that willingly hire illegal aliens and pay them not much more than slave wages, or the corporations that move thr businesses overseas to save money on wages (READ: sweatshops) that threaten this country more.

-Miles
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[No Affiliation]

Freedom and liberty come from the rule of law. Without the rule of law, deciding matters would be left up to the tyrant king. Saying illegal aliens(or illegal anything for that matter) are okay, is an assault on the rule of law. An assault on the rule of law is an assault on your freedom and liberty.
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[Mylezylez]

What is the rule of law in this case?

Why are illegal aliens contributing to the destruction of this country?
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[No Affiliation]

Illegal aliens are illegal ,otherwise they would not be called illegal aliens. Do you agree?

When someone self appoints themselves to the position of King and says illegal aliens are okay, they are assaulting the rule of law and as such the foundational principles of our constitutional republic and as such our great nation.
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[GET REAL]

So you are saying that you never travel above the speed limit? You have never made a photocopy of copyrighted material? You think it was right to send blacks to the back of the bus in the segregationist era, since to do otherwise would have been to undermine the rule of law? If we were to pass a law opening our borders wide, then you would stop complaining?

The rule of law is a means to an end (an orderly society) and not an end in itself. Its legitimacy rests on the laws themselves bng just.

To say that illegal aliens are a problem because they are illegal is an insuffucuent answer to Miles question. Why should it be illegal to allow them in? What harm, other than violating immigration laws, do they do?
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[No Affiliation]

To get real,
Illegal aliens are illegal otherwise they would not be called as such. Anyone who disagrees with that argument will lose. Illegal aliens should be deported as per law. It is that simple.
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[Mylezylez]

So, Illegal Aliens are doing harm to our country by bng illegal and in this country? Quite circular logic, if you ask me.

But what is the root of this? Are illegal aliens ruining America's economy? I might somewhat agree with that, but then it's the corporations who hire them and pay them next to nothing. AND it's the corpo

Is this racism? I seem to believe the statue of liberty has something on it about accepting people of all faiths, ethnicities, and economic backgrounds. But then, those dastardly French gave that to us!

No Affiliation, I think you should remember that this is supposed to be a democracy; none of us are living UNDER the law, and none of us are living UNDER a king or ruler of any sort. The laws passed by our supposed representative congress are always open to debate, interpretation, and contention. These are some of the greatest qualities of this country, and they are qualities that seem to be slipping away.

So I ask again, why are illegal immigrants doing harm to our country?

-Miles

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[No Affiliation]

To Miles,
Illegal aliens, or illegal behavior, or illegal anything else does harm when it is accepted as okay. If it is illegal it should not be okay. If it is okay, it should not be illegal. Some other points. We are a republic, not a democracy. The saying on the statue of liberty is not law or policy. It is arguably no more meaningful than a bumper sticker. Since illegal aliens are illegal, they should be deported.
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[Mylezylez]

I think you should look at legality a different way. You seem to think the laws of this country are dictated by a higher power, and we are all subject to them, no matter how silly they might be.

Well, let me tell you that laws can be changed by the people. The initiative process passed in the early 20th century, when people started realizing the government represented mostly the millionare class, makes sure that the people can pass thr own laws, and decide (on a jury, or through petition) if a law is just or not.

So, "because if it illegal" is hardly a valid argument. We are NOT serfs!

-Miles
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[bythebook]

Illegal immigrants harm this country by:

1. overburdening our health care and social services systems
2. overcrowding our schools
3. taking away of jobs from American citizens
4. increase in crime rates
5. tax increases to make up for all of the above (paid for by American citizens)

is that enough for you???

[No Affiliation]

Miles,
Because "it is illegal" is the ultimate argument in a republic. You know that. Now you also know that laws can be changed/repealed by a legislative body(congress) or challenged in the Supreme Court for constitutionality. Illegal aliens are illegal and must be deported.
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[Taxpayer]

OK miles you support them..... I volunteer for EMS in my town. I bust my ass working 12 hours a day 5 days a week, I make too much to qualify for any mortgage assistance or for any health care assistance yet I can walk into houses that are death traps to answer a call for an ambulance, the dispatcher cant speak Spanish so its given a priority , which increases the opportunity for accidents and injury to myself. I get to the house and the 12 people who live there don't speak English, so I try. they point me in the direction of a pregnant woman who has her suitcase packed and is going to the hospital ER tonight because she has a doctors appointment tomorrow morning and doesn't have a ride , she proceeds to hand me her Medicaid card even though the volunteer system doesn't charge, lo and behold her unborn child already has a medicaid card.man does that tick me off. Of course I am well rounded person an overlook this total raping of the taxpayers(me) in Suffolk county and transport this woman..........miles I didn't embellish this or make it up its plain truth...........
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[Mylezylez]

The argument on this thread sounds very familiar.

A Chinese friend of mine reminded me that the Chinese were thought of in much the same way as Mexicans today.

The Mexicans today are definately treated (in general) as the underclass. I dare you to deny that.

I think the racist undertones in this subject are fairly obvious. I mean come on, are you really angry that your tax dollars are going (IN PART) to some poor families? Not only that, but you're angry simply because they're "illegal"?

If those above statements accurately reflect your beliefs, than I must ask why you're so angry, and WHY Mexicans are a good target.

How about this for an unpopular view: The Nazis used the same technique. Rather than pay attention to the REAL problems facing thr society, they diverted the blame to the Jews. Let's not fall in the same trap, okay?

-Miles
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[GET REAL]

If the problem with illegal aliens is simply that they are illegal (at l according to No Affiliation), then all we have to do is pass laws making them legal. Whether they were illegal before will then be irrelevant.

Problem solved.
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[No Affiliation]

To get real,
What you are proposing is rewarding people for breaking the law.


To miles,
Do you believe in equality? Do you believe ALL people should play by the same rules and be judged on thr behavior? I do. If you also believe in equality, how can you support the position that illegal aliens are above the law?
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[Mylezylez]

I don't understand the legality argument. Something is not wrong simply because it's illegal.

Do you really think illegal aliens are that sizeable a burden on our economy? How about the massive tax cuts that Bush continues to propose (and occasionally pass) which benefit no one but the wealthier or us. How about major corporations closing buildings in the US, laying off thousands of workers, and moving to third world countries to exploit the people there.

I happen to think that people oftentimes come to this country to make a better life for themselves. Much of Mexico is really not that pleasant a place, I can see why people would be attracted to this country.

And on what are you basing the "lazy wellfare immigrant" argument? If you haven't noticed, immigrant labor (which isn't exactly legal in itself), is many times equivilant to slave labor. Many (MOST?) immigrants work VERY VERY hard for basically no wages at all.

So, what does legality have to do with it?

-Miles
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[No Affiliation]

miles,
You say you don't understand the legality argument. Our great nation is a constitutional republic. Republic means rule by law. Other than a republic you have 4 other forms of government.

Monarchy
Oligarchy
Democracy
Anarchy

Which do you prefer?
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[Mylezylez]

Did you mean to put democracy in with the other systems? IS democracy not a valid goal, that is complete attainable since we live in the information age?

It's just strange, you seem to be saying that illegal aliens are bad because they're illegal, and the law rgns supreme. But I'm saying that the law is totally in our hands as Americans.

That's a big point with Republicans, it seems. That the law is supreme, and the people live under them. Those that don't should be punished. Right now, the government seems to be trying to reassert it's authority over regular American lives. Is this a positive development? Shouldn't we all be living freely, in peace with our nghbors, yet living by our own principals. Or should this nation have ONE view, and those dissenters are of course penalized. Shouldn't I be able to check out a book in the library, without the government compiling a list of my favorite reading (no doubt for marketing purposes, as well as unconstitutional survllance if I'm readin the Koran or something).

-Miles
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[uhhuh]

no affiliation,
You didn't mention the type of government on Long Island
- government by connection, patronage and cronyism.

[GET REAL]

No affiliation,

Legalizing immigrants will not reward people for breaking the law. It will just make them not breaking the law any more.

Since you say that's the problem, it will solve the problem. There will be no more illegal aliens. They will all be legal.
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[Big Tent]

To no affiliation:
"What you are proposing is rewarding people for breaking the law."

Isn't that how the USA became a nation? Isn't that how blacks gained equal rights? Sometimes, there are higher principles than "the law".

[No Affiliation]

miles,
Democracy(a.k.a. mobocracy) is dangerous and should be avoided. In a pure democracy if a simple majority of the people decided something ridiculous, like anyone who participates in this forum will be hung, we would all be hung.

uhhuh,
I can't disagree with your post. Since your post falls in the category of "government by the few" I will categorize it as a oligarchy.

Get real,
Let's see how real you are. Have you ever(or know for sure that anyone else has) been charged with anything(even something minor) and walked in to court and told the judge to change the law to suit your needs and the judge changed the law because you told him to do so??

Big tent,
If someone is here illegally they are breaking the law. If you make them legal you are rewarding them for breaking the law. Illegal aliens must be deported as per law. If you oppose our republic as a form of government, here are the other choices:monarchy,oligarchy, democracy, anarchy. What do you choose? I support our great constitutional republic.
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[Snook the Elephant]

The elephant has landed...

[GET REAL]

"Let's see how real you are. Have you ever(or know for sure that anyone else has) been charged with anything(even something minor) and walked in to court and told the judge to change the law to suit your needs and the judge changed the law because you told him to do so??"

Who said anything about a judge? Just have the Congress make all illegal immigrants legal. That eliminates the problem according to you. There will then no longer be any illegal immigrants, by definition. Why would someone be brought before a judge for breaking a law that did not exist?

If the only problem is that a law is bng broken, then changing the law (by the legislature) would be a simple solution. Problem solved.
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[No Affiliation]

Get real,
When a law is broken there are consequences not rewards. Congress originally made the law that defined an illegal alien. So you are suggesting that congress makes them legal a.k.a. makes a law, that rewards people for breaking a law that they have made. Illegal aliens must be deported. It is that simple. There are no other solutions. It is simple to deport millions of people in this modern era. The American people will never surrender thr nation(rule of law) to illegal alien invaders, nor will they accept a government that makes forced policy based on accepting invasion and that is as real as it gets!!
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[SuzieQ]

Why can't you people understand that a law has been broken? People have come into our country illegaly. You do not reward people for committing a crime. You punish them by sending them home. If they have not committed any additional crimes in our country, they should be forced to return to the country of thr origin and then be allowed to return through the proper channels like every other immigrant. It is that simple. Stop trying to put a spin on everything and convolute the issue. We are not all immigrants as you say. This country was formed by explorers, colonists and courageous settlers. The slaves where bought here against thr will and thr own people, in Africa, and our people are to blame for that atrocity. They are not considered immigrants but American settlers. They fought long and hard for thr right to be here. Do you know what a Republic means? It means we have a set of laws that must be obeyed by everyone, including our elected officials. This country is not a Democracy where the majority rules. In fact, the word "democracy" is not mentioned once in our Constitution. You all sound ridiculous when you propose our laws be broken. Laws are made to keep us from chaos.
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