President Bush is allowing illegal alien invasion

[Dave]

President Bush ran on a pro-law enforcement platform and he continues to ignore the illegal alien invasion. It would be impossible to convince the Farmingville community that Iraq is a threat when that community is under siege daily by illegal aliens from central America. This president has clearly demonstrated that he cares more about illegal aliens than U.S. citizens otherwise the illegal aliens would be deported. President Bush's behavior can only be described as treasonous.
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Ducati 860gt (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Ducati_860GT)

[midgetbones]

Man !!!! Dave for President! treasonous? Some people amaze me. "onward we stagger, and if the tanks come, may God help the tanks"
-Col. William O. Darby
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Yamaha golf car history (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_Golf_Car)

[Save me please]

Who is running the USA it is the illegal alien.
Who is killing the USA the illegal alien.
Who can save the USA we can.

STAND up and be heard!!

[Starvin Marvin]

We cannot allow those Marklar to come with there illegal Marklar and enter our Marklar without Marklar or Marklar and we should deport those Marklar immediately!!!

[Tell Me]

Bush ran on a pro-law enforcement platform. The statistics should be 0 illegal aliens now. Bush had 2 years. All illegal aliens should have been deported and the military used to secure the borders. Legislators make laws, executives enforce them. No new laws are needed to deport illegal aliens and secure the borders. All it takes is orders to do so from the president. But he will not give the orders. What other conclusion is possible other then the president is either a coward or a anti-American tyrant? If anyone disagrees, then please tell me why the president will not deport illegal aliens and stop the invasion. It is up to him, not congress.

[one that knows]

From the American Community Survey.

Nassau County in the year 2000 there was 131,710
Latino in Nassau County.
In the year 2001 there was 138,646 that is an increase of 6,936 people. In the same time frame the white population went from 968,673 to 951,732, that is a decrease of 16,941.

In Suffolk County the latino population increased from 146,967 in 2000 to 157,371 in 2001. That is an increase of 10,429. While in the same time frame the white population went from 1,102,274 to 1,102,076 thats a decrease of 198 people.

As you can see the white population is decreasing. The latino population is increasing. How many are legal I can not say. A few weeks ago in Newsday there was a report that said the INS has upped its count of undocumented aliens in the USA from 5 million to 7 million.

The INS also reported that New York State had the third largest number of undocumented aliens with 489,000. Only California and Texas have more.

And these numbers are hard to track because many undocumented aliens live in the shadows of society.

[NoMoreIllegals]

George Bush, speaking at a naturalization ceremony on Ellis Island on July 10, 2001, said
"Immigration is not a problem to be solved. It is a sign of a confident and successful nation."

How the hell can we ever expect to stop the mexican's from oozing over the border when I leader thinks this way?

We can always change leaders?

[Invasion]

I think BUSH is in big trouble on all issues... He had lied to the American public... ...

[SuzieQ]

Fox's presidency is over. An article in Newsday 7/10 which I did not buy by the way, spoke of his failed leadership. As I said before, maybe it is the heat or something, but the South American countries seem doomed to failure. The people fight those in power, take control of the government, and repeat the same mistakes as their predecessors. Making sense of this is a whole other issue. . Well now we will not have to see Bush kissing Fox's boots any longer. His big "great pal," is going down the tubes. Perhaps he, Bush, will have the courage to do something about the illegal aliens coming across our borders now. Let's hope.
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FORD C6 TRANSMISSION (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_C6_transmission)

[Whatsup]

LET THE REPUBLICANS AND HISPANIC CANDIDATES KNOW THAT THE COUNTRY HAS HAD IT WITH OUR OPEN BORDER POLICY WITH MEXICO. LET AMERICANS OF HISPANIC DESCENT WHO ALSO WANT TO MONITOR OUR BORDERS BETTER TO LEAD THE WAY.AN EXAMPLE WHEN PROPOSITION TO LIMIT IMMIGRATION WAS VOTED ON A FEW YEARS AGO IN CALIFORNIA 57% OF HISPANIC AMERICAN'S VOTED TO PASS IT. MEXICO HAS TO CLEAN UP THEIR OWN CORRUPTION BEFORE THEY COULD EVER BE A PROSPEROUS NATION.
________
Weed bubblers (http://bubblers.net/)

[ACELAW]

Stop Bank Acceptance of Matricula ID Card Used by Illegal Aliens
Vote Yes to Stopping Bank Acceptance of Matricula ID's
We need you to vote YES to stop bank acceptance of the controversial Mexican Matricula ID card used by illegal aliens! Please take a minute right now to register your opposition to acceptance of these and other foreign government-issued consular identification cards at the U.S. Treasury Department's new web site: regcomments.treasury.gov

The banks and open borders lobby are pushing hard to prevent any change to a Treasury rule issued last May allowing banks to accept these cards and open bank accounts for illegal aliens. Thanks to heavy pressure from groups like FAIR and numerous members of Congress, the Treasury Department has been forced to reconsider the new rule. Its website is soliciting public opinion on the issue-let them know what you think of allowing banks to open accounts for illegal aliens, potential terrorists, criminal aliens, and foreign money launderers.

Please take one other step. Send this alert to your friends and like-minded acquaintances. Maximum public participation is essential. Don't let our opponents out vote us!

How You Can Help

Go to regcomments.treasury.gov.

Click on the icon IDENTIFICATION and enter your personal information

Below IDENTIFICATION, you may vote by checking off a box indicating that YES, you think the terms and conditions of the final section 326 regulation relating to financial institutions' ability to rely on foreign-issued identification should be changed. Click the YES box.

Below your vote, you may enter a comment explaining why you believe the rule should be changed. Us the talking points below to enter your comments.

Click the SUBMIT icon to send your vote to the Treasury Department.

Talking Points

The new regulation was promulgated under the auspices of the USA Patriot Act. The USA Patriot Act was intended to protect homeland security by preventing money laundering by potential terrorists and criminal aliens. The new regulation compromises homeland security by allowing banks to accept unverifiable foreign consular cards that will actually facilitate money laundering by potential terrorists and criminal aliens.
The new regulation fails to require banks to even maintain copies of the documents used by foreign nationals to open bank accounts. Without even this minimal requirement, federal law enforcement authorities will be severely hampered in their efforts to track down and prosecute foreign terrorists and criminal alien money laundering.
The preference of banks to be free of even a minimum requirement to maintain copies of the documents used by foreign nationals to open bank accounts is really an acknowledgement by the banks that these copies might become documented evidence of aiding and abetting violations of U.S. immigration law. Banks know very well that foreign nationals with no other identification but a consular identification card are illegal aliens.
Almost exclusively illegal aliens use these cards. Legal residents can obtain driver's licenses and other U.S.-issued ID, while legal visitors from Mexico or elsewhere can use a passport to identify themselves.
U.S. immigration authorities have said the Matricula consular is virtually worthless as an identity document. The documents people use to apply for these cards are easily counterfeited. In fact, people have been apprehended in possession of numerous cards with multiple identities.
Mexico's actions to advance acceptance of the card by banks is an attempt to make illegal aliens from Mexico as inconspicuous as possible while facilitating the uninterrupted transmission of remittances back to Mexico.




Norwood Introduces CLEAR Act, Legislation to Promote State and Local Law Enforcement of Immigration Law
Help Build Support for H.R. 2671



Good news! Immigration Reform Caucus Member Charlie Norwood (R-GA) introduced a bill today that would address the growing criminal and illegal alien problem by allowing over 600,000 state and local law enforcement officials to enforce immigration laws during the course of their regular duties. H.R. 2671 provides state and local law enforcement agencies with the authority and resources needed to detain criminal and illegal aliens.

Currently, the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (BICE) has only 2,000 interior enforcement agents dedicated to enforcing immigration law and locating some 400,000 illegal aliens with standing deportation orders. Of those, 80,000 are criminal aliens and 15,000 are of national security interest. The federal government does not have the resources or manpower to track these and other illegal aliens down and deport them.

If passed, this bill will act as a force multiplier by offering incentives for state and local law enforcement agencies to assist BICE in enforcing immigration laws.

Representatives Allen Boyd (R-FL), Melissa Hart (R-PA), and Nathan Deal (R-GA) are original cosponsors of this legislation. We need your help to build support for H.R. 2671. Please contact your representative and urge him or her to cosponsor this important legislation.
Call to Action (See talking points below):
Enter your zip code into the "Take Action Now" box to send a free faxed message to your representative urging him or her to cosponsor H.R. 2671.


Follow up your fax with a phone call. Follow this link to the elected officials section of our web site to find your representative's phone number.


If you would like to take more action, follow up your fax and phone call with a personal letter - these are highly effective.
Talking Points:


H.R. 2671 would protect homeland security by giving state and local law enforcement agencies the authority and resources needed to detain criminal and illegal aliens within the course of their regular duties.


The federal government does not have the resources or manpower to track down and deport the 8 to 11 million illegal aliens currently living in the U.S. Of these, 400,000 have standing deportation orders, 80,000 are criminal aliens, and 15,000 may pose a national security risk.


Currently, if state or local law enforcement agents come across an illegal alien, they must call and wait for DHS to come and detain the alien. Since it is not equipped with the resources to handle the large amount of cases, DHS rarely comes to detain the alien, and the alien is released back into the street.


The Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (BICE) has only 2,000 agents dedicated to interior enforcement. H.R. 2671 would act as a force multiplier by allowing over 600,000 state and local law enforcement officials to enforce immigration laws.


H.R. 2671 would create a new system for BICE to take custody of illegal aliens from localities and take them to a BICE facility for processing and removal.
For more information, please read our issue brief on immigration law enforcement by local agencies.





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Hero Honda Hunk History (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Hero_Honda_Hunk)

[SuzieQ]

President Bush is not closing the border because it will not only stop the illegals from coming across but it will also stop the flow of drugs. The drug problem in our country could be seriously curtailed if the drugs were not allowed to come in. Drug enforcement in this country is like shoveling s--t against the tide. It will never make a dent unless the borders are closed. If he would be more aggressive in Iraq and close the borders, he would be untouchable in the next election. As it stands now, he may lose because he is ignoring the border issue.
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Suzuki Stratosphere (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_Stratosphere)

[bfp]

i live in texas and its horrible down here...... illegals are everywhere... texas is a good state though.. no state tax... in certain areas there are illegals that stand around certain areas where people come to pick them up for cheap labor/under the table.. tons of mexicans also work for cheap labor in construction markets as well.. the do a good job building huge highways..

[PeoplesHope]

Maybe you're all forgetting that you were once filthy little illegal aliens to this land at one point, or are you miraculously native-born Americans? IF you hate them so much go join your lovely gangs of skinheads.

[bfp]

i actually happen to like all races. but the ILLEGAL aliens are coming over the border and they are not paying taxes and its also hurting our healthcare by the billions. so please take your ignorant childish remarks elsewhere.

[WantaghDem]

"one that knows" says:

"As you can see the white population is decreasing. The latino population is increasing. How many are legal I can not say"

Right. I agree with you. How many of the white population are undocumented aliens is hard to tell. I mean, they live AMONG us. They even LOOK like us.

And, fa doze of us who FEAUH immigrationuz, dey butchah da tawk just as much as WEEES DOOS, soze we can'ts tell dem from da way day TAWK.

Yes, I agree. The number of white undocumented illegal aliens, from the countries of the former Soviet Union, from Ireland, from Australia - there are HORDES of them. They are taking away our jobs (easier, cause they're white), they're taking away our women (harder, because, you know what they say.....once you go white........you go right back to black), and we're spending BILLIONS educating them and giving them healthcare....they're white, so they can't be as easily SPOTTED as those REGULAR illegal aliens, who don't look like US!

!

Sometimes, it feels like I'm in a time machine. I've gone backwards, and I have to listen to the hate-filled fears of ignorant people who couldn't achieve anything even if their name was Bush.
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Breakup Advice Forums (http://www.love-help.org/breakup-advice/)

[skatha24]

Why do we worry so much about trivial things? Should we not worry about what is really happening to AMERICA? Isn't BUSH UN-american by allowing our country to go to hell? An entire generation of
Americans has grown up believing that things always get
better... and that stocks always go up over the long run...
They believe things revert to the mean, but the mean to
them is 12%-18% annual gains - in their stocks and in their
houses.

But as we look around the U.S., we do not see the telltale
signs of a robust, prosperous nation. We see a nation
living in a style to which it has become accustomed, but
one it cannot really afford. We see unemployment lines that
stretch around the block for jobs that don't really pay any
more than they did 30 years ago. We see couples working
long hours trying to keep alive the illusion of financial
progress; they refinance their houses to make ends meet,
and leave their children to watch television. We see a
trade deficit of 5% of GDP... headed to 8%. We see China
taking U.S. jobs and American profits. We see the federal
government turning a projected surplus of $5.6 trillion
into a projected deficit of at least $4 trillion in a space
of only 24 months... with a total projected shortfall in
federal revenues of up to $44 trillion!


________
Hot box vaporizers (http://hotboxvaporizers.com)

[ConcernedRep]

We need Tancredo to make a run for the Presidency.

[SuzieQ]

You are absolutely right. I would love to see him run for President as he is the most outspoken on the illegal immigration issue. He would put a moratorium on all immigration for five years and close the borders. He is the only one who seems to have a grasp on the issue. Maybe he will give us some hope.
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Free Themes (http://themesfree.org)

[WantaghDem]

Tom Tancredo has to be the STUPIDEST Member of Congress....and that's saying a lot, considering how many conservatives are in that once-august body.

But, after Scarborough quit under the cloud of a dead intern in his office, and Felix Grucci got tossed out on his a_s, the choice was down to Mark Foley or Tom Tancredo.

He is not only moronic but also a horrible excuse for a human being. If I believed in such a thing as evil he would have to be one of the poster boys. He is an out and out racist, and he doesn't mind sharing that particular sick hatred with others - mostly to an empty House chamber while he makes a special order "speech" - which are simply screeds of praise for the White Power movement.


Besides, do you really want a closet queen as your president? Wait - you already have one! Although, Tancredo's costume of choice isn't military, though....think more "There's No Place Like Home."
________
Imgboard (http://vaporizer.org/reviews)

[SuzieQ]

You sir or madam, are the racist and a hatemonger. You do not consider the issues that are being put forth and the consequences that they inflict on the nation. You deal with differences of opinion just like every other Democrat and that is by attacking someone personally. Instead of putting forth an intelligent rebuttal to an issue, you attack the person who presents the issue. If this is not sour-grapes and bigotry, I do not know what is. You use the Jesse Jackson tactic. If you do not agree with my point of view, I will attack you personally by calling you a racist or slander you. That is why the Democrats have no credibility and they are digging themselves into a hole. What exactly are they going to do for the country? They have no platform other than to attack the Republicans. What is wrong with you folks????
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D platform (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Chrysler_D_platform)

[Tancredo for Prez]

i will write him in. america needs a real president and the democrats and republicans will not offer one.

[jim]

Do you ever have anything to say that is not slanderous?
If someone disagrees with your opinion, you attack them personally. I for one am a Republican and cannot stand Bush. He has absolutely no idea what he is doing, and quite frankly is running the country in the wrong direction. So you would be shocked to know I agree with you, as many others do on this site.

But please tell me, how do you know Tancredo is a racist? Provide facts. All he wants is for our laws to be enforced. Elected officials have no right, regardless of their opinion, to ignore a law or overide it. Our nation is based on law, something that makes our country great. Anyone who wants to come to this country should do it in a legal fashion. Fill out the proper paperwork and go through the process as millions have done before them. No one should be given preferential treatment. If the immigration laws are repealed today, then I have no problem with their actions.

The reason why Mexicans get the bad rap on the illegal immigration issue is because of their mass numbers and because they are in the public eye (on street corners, etc). Everyone, regardless of race or ethnicity, should be deported if in this country illegally. That includes anyone of Eurpoean heritage.

This is not a race issue. But people like you make it one, because you have no other arguments to make.

We are here to discuss the issues. Deeming someone a racist just because you disagree with their political standing is wrong and most importantly, un-American.
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Magic flight launch box (http://vaporizer.org/reviews/magic-flight-launch-box)

[WantaghDem]

Let me ask you a few questions, and then we can perhaps begin to get to the bottom of these issues. I am asking these questions of anyone, and I am not accusing anyone on this board specifically of doing any of the things listed below - just asking the questions:


1. Would you classify someone as "racist" if they believed that everyone of a particular race or ethnic background was a criminal?


2. Would you classify someone as "racist" if they believed that everyone of a particular race or ethnic background was anything - that whatever they thought, it applied to all people of the same race or ethnic background?


3. Would you classify someone as "racist" who automatically
assumes that Latino people they see in public are "illegal aliens"?


4. Would you classify someone as "racist" who automatically
assumes that Latino people they see in public are actively harming American citizens in crime or violent behavior?


5. Would you classify someone as "racist" who believes that immigrants of certain specific racial or national or ethnic backgrounds should all automatically be turned away from legally emigrating to the United States?


6. Would you classify someone as "racist" who believes that all - or most - illegal immigrants (the vast majority of whom are Mexican and other Latinos) harm this country, steal public services, are treated better than citizens, and are out to take as much as they can from us without having to pay for any of it?



I have asked these questions in a serious and non-"slanderous" manner. I hope that I can receive answers to them in the same way.
________
MadonnaLuisa (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/MadonnaLuisa/)

[jim]

In response to your questions:

1. Absolutely!

2. Must be clearer as to the term "anything"

3 Yes. However, if someone walked by and heard a bunch of Latinos speaking Spanish, it may be a factor in coming to the conclusion that they are illegal. The border patrol uses these tactics at highway checkpoints. If they have a foreign accent, or cannot speak basic English, then it may be a red flag. This claim is supported by the fact that all legal immigrants go through a citizenship course which includes basic lessons in the English language.

4. Unless I know that specific person is a criminal regardless of race, but if not: yes (I think you meant to say all latinos; but I'm on the same page as you)

5. Absolutely!

6. Every illegal immigrant: yes they are a racist. Most illegal immigrants: no and heres why. No matter how you slice it, the majority of illegal immigrants who are here in our country receive more than they give in return. This is due to their illegal status. Yes they work but they do not pay their fair share in taxes. In addition they take the majority of jobs, not all, away from American citizens. They also receive free health care and education for their children.

As you can tell by my statements, I am angry about how the government is dealing with the issue of illegal immigration. If these individuals would go through the process legally, I would welcome them with open arms. I am tired of my hard-earned tax dollars supporting people who have no legal right to be here. I dont want my tax dollars supporting illegal activity...for individuals of all backgrounds.

I hope that sheds some light.
________
ONE VAPORIZER REVIEWS (http://vaporizer.org/reviews/vapir-air-one/)

[WantaghDem]

WD Asked:
1. Would you classify someone as "racist" if they believed that everyone of a particular race or ethnic background was a criminal?

Jim Answered:
1. Absolutely!



WD Asked:
2. Would you classify someone as "racist" if they believed that everyone of a particular race or ethnic background was anything - that whatever they thought, it applied to all people of the same race or ethnic background?

Jim Answered:
2. Must be clearer as to the term "anything"

[Well, no, I don't need to be clearer, Jim. The specific definition of a "racist" is someone who believes that all people of a specific race are _______ - anything! If one says the sentence "all people who are black are____" then one is a racist - one is attributing something to race which is not and could not be true. One who believes in the idea that race is determinant of character, is a "racist"]

WD Asked:
3. Would you classify someone as "racist" who automatically
assumes that Latino people they see in public are "illegal aliens"?

Jim Answered:
3 Yes. However, if someone walked by and heard a bunch of Latinos speaking Spanish, it may be a factor in coming to the conclusion that they are illegal. The border patrol uses these tactics at highway checkpoints. If they have a foreign accent, or cannot speak basic English, then it may be a red flag. This claim is supported by the fact that all legal immigrants go through a citizenship course which includes basic lessons in the English language.

[I thought you were doing fine until this point. It's not logical, and it's not factual, and I think - think - it shows that you don't really have much contact with first-generation immigrants who come from non-English speaking countries. I know people who have been in this country for over fifty years - people who came in legally AND who speak English better than most "natives" - and who STILL prefer their own first language when socializing. There are more LEGAL immigrants who live in this country who speak languages OTHER than English on a full-time basis than there are ALL illegal immigrants combined. And, I don't know where you got your "border patrol tactic" information but it seems just silly]

WD Asked:
4. Would you classify someone as "racist" who automatically
assumes that Latino people they see in public are actively harming American citizens in crime or violent behavior?

Jim Answered:
4. Unless I know that specific person is a criminal regardless of race, but if not: yes (I think you meant to say all latinos; but I'm on the same page as you)

[Again, I think this is a good answer - what I meant was that someone sees a group of Latinos on a corner or at a hiring hall, and automatically assumes that they are violent criminals out to burglarize, rape, etc. I agree that this thinking is racist]

WD Asked:
5. Would you classify someone as "racist" who believes that immigrants of certain specific racial or national or ethnic backgrounds should all automatically be turned away from legally emigrating to the United States?

Jim Answered:
5. Absolutely!

[Again: good answer]

WD Asked:
6. Would you classify someone as "racist" who believes that all - or most - illegal immigrants (the vast majority of whom are Mexican and other Latinos) harm this country, steal public services, are treated better than citizens, and are out to take as much as they can from us without having to pay for any of it?

Jim Answered:
6. Every illegal immigrant: yes they are a racist.
[Ditto]

Jim Answered Further:
Most illegal immigrants: no and heres why. No matter how you slice it, the majority of illegal immigrants who are here in our country receive more than they give in return. This is due to their illegal status. Yes they work but they do not pay their fair share in taxes. In addition they take the majority of jobs, not all, away from American citizens. They also receive free health care and education for their children.

[Actually, Jim, this really is incorrect. Illegal immigrants have a VERY difficult time in most of this country obtaining social services. It is VERY difficult, for example, for illegal immigrants to receive non-emergent health care. My wife is a physician and this is something that we both know about very well. And they cannot POSSIBLY take "the majority" of jobs in this country away from ANYONE - think about it: there are about seven million illegal immigrants in the country. There are about THREE HUNDRED MILLION people total in the country. Even if only a SIXTH of those are of working age, HOW could SEVEN MILLION take the "majority" of jobs away from FIFTY MILLION WORKERS? And this is assuming that ALL SEVEN MILLION illegal immigrants are WORKING!

And if you really feel that people in this country should not receive benefits if they don't pay taxes, then there are two more groups who abuse this idea FAR MORE than illegal immigrants:

1. Citizens of Puerto Rico, who pay no federal taxes but receive ALL federal benefits - on a per capita basis far more than illegal immigrants;
2. Corporations that pay NO federal taxes due to loopholes, cheating, and outright CRIME.

EITHER of these two groups are taking MUCH more away from the US Treasury than illegal immigrants. Why aren't people like you up in arms about them?

Jim Answered Even Further:
As you can tell by my statements, I am angry about how the government is dealing with the issue of illegal immigration. If these individuals would go through the process legally, I would welcome them with open arms. I am tired of my hard-earned tax dollars supporting people who have no legal right to be here. I dont want my tax dollars supporting illegal activity...for individuals of all backgrounds.


[And I agree with you, somewhat. What I don't agree with is that somehow the government is doing ABSOLUTELY nothing about illegal immigration. I would agree that Bush is doing less than Clinton, but that's across the board, except for warmongering and tax cheating. But to say that the government somehow SUPPORTS illegal immigration...sorry, I just don't see it.

I would also point out that you are the ONLY person I have read on this board who has railed against illegal immigration but has said that you would welcome the same people if they came in legally. Everyone else has made it clear that they don't want "those people" in the US at all. By the way, many illegals don't come in "legally" because of the racist restrictions on non-white immigration. Would you be willing to change those policies, so more people could come in legally, be taxpayers, honest citizens, contribute to society, etc.? Would you be willing to pay more at restaurants, hotels, resorts, recreation areas, malls, and other places where current illegal residents work for less than honest pay?]


OK, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. It looks like there's a lot of agreement between the two of us as to a lot of these racist statements and allegations.

Now to the point of the questions: I asked them because those kinds of statements are EXACTLY what has been going on with these forums and the people who post here. Each of those questions was written after reading people on this message board talk about "illegal immigrants." THAT'S what I was responding to.

You asked if I wrote anything that wasn't slanderous. Can you understand now, from the questions you answered (agreeing with me that those sentiments are racist) why I wrote what I wrote about this issue?

Some people - I would say MANY people - were making these assumptions and allegations about illegal immigrants. They were making these RACIST assumptions. I called them what they were. I don't understand how that could be considered slanderous.

I would hope that this also sheds some light for you, too. [i]
________
Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[ACELAW]

What - a demo- wit

What do illegals need college for???? aren't they here to do the low skilled jobs we won't????? You don't college for that???? So thius is just another lie to what is relly happening here, RIGHT, get your foot in the door, leach off the tyaxpaying citzens of another country, all done under the lies of jobs we won't do,then want in-state tituiton for yopur kids who are susposed to be do the jibs we won't do for the next gereatiuon, idf the their kids do not do these jobs we won;t/ they won't do, THEN I GUESS WE START ALL OVER AND FIND THE NEXT FOLKS TO COME TO THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALY TO DO THE THE JOBSA THEW HISPANICS WON'T DO .
Demo-wit said
I would also point out that you are the ONLY person I have read on this board who has railed against illegal immigration but has said that you would welcome the same people if they came in legally. Everyone else has made it clear that they don't want "those people" in the US at all. By the way, many illegals don't come in "legally" because of the racist restrictions on non-white immigration. Would you be willing to change those policies, so more people could come in legally, be taxpayers, honest citizens, contribute to society, etc.? Would you be willing to pay more at restaurants, hotels, resorts, recreation areas, malls, and other places where current illegal residents work for less than honest pay?]

Americas economy was never, ever, based on a totally free market in labor. It was based on a labor market constricted by limited immigration and a small population relative to national resources, and a free market in everything else. This was designed to produce high wages. We have always been an explicitly high-wage nation relative to other societies, and this did not happen by accident. (This is the key story in Pat Buchanans book The Great Betrayal, and he is right about this, even if he is wrong about other things.) Labor is the one and only area in which no rational society should want to construct a free market, because free markets make things cheap, and high wages equal a high standard of living. But the principle is rock-solid. Labor is fundamentally different from all other commodities because its well-being is an end in itself, not a means to other ends. I am advocating controls on the influx of foreign labor, not unions or limits on which jobs Americans can hold. Lie #1: "Immigrants helped sustain our economic boom and are essential to our current and future economic vitality."
Rebuttal #1: Let's go through some basic economics: immigrants increase aggregate or total GNP because whenever you add a new person to the economy and this person produces goods and services, this constitutes economic activity. But it isn't aggregate GNP that makes ours a prosperous country it’s per capita GNP, and these immigrants, who are mostly poor , dilute this statistic. If this were not so, we could increase our GNP by having the entire population of India and China move here. Would this be a good idea? Is India a richer country than Switzerland because it has a larger aggregate GNP, though a smaller per capita one? .



According to the Census Bureau figures, more than two-thirds of current and future population growth is the result of immigration. Dr. Steven Camarota, Director of Reseach for the Center for Immigration Studies, wrote in a January 2001 paper: “Immigration has become the determinate factor in population growth. The 11.2 million immigrants who indicated they arrived between 1990 and 2000 plus the 6.4 million children born to immigrants in the United States during the 1990s are equal to almost 70 percent of U.S. population growth over the last 10 years.”

Reducing immigration therefore is necessary to curb population growth. How many more restaurants, malls , houses , burger joints do we need if we go back to 1965 immigration levels which were targeted for replacement level. The new lenience helps explain why overall wage increases have been less than many economists and policy makers had expected, given an unemployment rate of only 4 percent and a strong demand for people to fill jobs that pay $8 an hour or less, which is 25 percent of all jobs. The Washington Post reported (12/1/02) that half of new workers in the decade of the 1990s were immigrants. This figure is stunning when considered with the new immigrants share of labor force growth in previous decades, i.e., 27 percent in the 1980s and 10 percent in the 1970s. American workers are not unaware of the problem: a pre-911 Zogby poll found that 60 percent of Democratic union households believed that amnesty for illegal aliens was a bad idea. A company is only as good as its weakest employee, throwing cheap labor around will stifle implementing technology, bad in the long run for this country. Companies that need high skilled will leave such as they are doing in Calif, if they don’t they will have to shoulder more of the tax burden, not , they pack for greener pastures., Calif. Will implode on itself for this very reason.
San Francisco Chronicle
High taxes and lots of rules prompt some firms to leave Calif.
California is known for exporting computers and chemicals, wine and apparel -- and, of course, cheese. But now the state is gaining the unfortunate reputation for exporting something far more valuable: Jobs. Corporate leaders and some economists fear that California's health is in jeopardy...


www.cbp.org/press/pr000419.html
NEW JOBS WILL BE LOW PAYING, LOW-SKILLED
Job seekers face limited opportunities for adequate wages
Contact: Jean Ross, 916/444-0500
FOR RELEASE:
April 19, 2000
SACRAMENTO - The California economy is booming and unemployment rates are at their lowest point in decades. (haha) SEE HOW THIS HAS CHANGED SO QUICK However, according to a new study from the California Budget Project, many of state's new jobs require relatively low levels of education and training and pay low wages, leaving California's job seekers with limited opportunities to earn enough to support a family.
The new report - Will Work Pay? Job Creation in the New California Economy - notes that among the state's 10 fastest growing jobs in absolute numbers, seven of them pay, on average, less than $11 per hour - or less than $23,000 a year for full-time work. In addition, only one out of 10 of the state's fastest growing jobs that would pay enough to support a two-working-parent family is an entry-level type job
click on source for full read



Associated Press--Dallas Morning News, February 11, 2003
8.“Business people in Illinois who will be honest with you will tell you that these Mexicans are indispensable," Illinois' senior senator, **** Durbin, said during a visit to Mexico last month. "A major restaurateur in Chicago said to me that 'If you take the Mexicans out of the restaurants, we will close, and the same is true of the hotel industry.'"

Amazing we were able to make it 200 years with out mass illegal immigration.


African-Americans being hurt most by joblessness
The employment picture is bleak. Nationwide, nearly 2.6 million manufacturing jobs have been lost since July 2000. -- And that statistic has hit black Americans hard. --- "Blacks basically command more labor market power, whereas Latinos cannot because of their immigration status," says Dr. Raul Hinojosa, a professor at UCLA. "Therefore, the wage pressure is kept down on Latinos making them more exploitable, and, therefore, more employable. There is really no subtle way to explain the point."

BROWN COLLAR" JOBS

Hispanic immigrants piling into the labor market are weighing
down the wages of all workers in a broad range of blue-collar
occupations in big cities across the country, according to a new
study by Lisa Catanzarite, a sociologist at the University of
California - Los Angeles.

According to the study:

o Occupations in which new Hispanic immigrants account for a
quarter of the work-force pay as much as 11 percent less
than those where there are no new Latino immigrant men.

o Toward the lower end of the wage ladder, where average
annual earnings are about $21,600, jobs in which new
Hispanic immigrant men account for 10 percent of the labor
force pay $950 less per year than similar jobs with no new
Latino arrivals.

o Where new Latino male immigrants account for a quarter of
the labor pool, the wage penalty is almost $2,400.

These new immigrants have concentrated in what Catanzarite calls
"brown collar" jobs, ranging from construction to gardening to
washing dishes, in such metropolitan areas as Los Angeles, New
York and Chicago.

o The new immigrant males from Latin America -- defined as
those who have been in the United States for less than
five years -- aren't more than 5 percent of the total
labor force in any metropolitan area.

o But in some cities they represent as much as 29 percent in
a specific employment category, like janitors and roofers.

While the study shows the link between Latin immigrant labor and
the pressure on wages, Catanzarite notes that some industries in
which new Latino immigrants work -- such as textile production --
might not even exist in the United States if it weren't for cheap
immigrant labor.

Source: Eduardo Porter, "Hispanic Newcomers Damp Wages: Study
Calls for More Workplace Rules And Amnesty for Illegal
Immigrants," Wall Street Journal, August 19, 2003; Lisa
Catanzarite, ""Wage Penalties in Brown-Collar Occupations,"
August 18, 2003, University of California, Los Angeles.

For text
online.wsj.com/article/0,...00,00.html

For study information
newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?id=4445

For more on the Effects of Immigration
www.ncpa.org/pd/immigrateffects.html
Arizona is lagging in educated workers
By Howard Fischer
CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES

New figures from the U.S. Census Bureau could have implications for Arizona businesses looking for educated workers.

In 1990, 20.3 percent of all Arizonans age 25 or older had at least a bachelor's degree, equal to the national average. But a decade later, while the figure for Arizona had increased to 23.5 percent, it did not keep pace with the national average, which had gone up to 24.4 percent.

Similar declines occurred in other levels of educational attainment.

In 1990, for example, the state's percentage of people who graduated from high school was 3.5 points above the national average. Ten years later, that lead had slipped to 0.6 percent. Similarly, the 0.2 percent gap between Arizonans with advanced degrees and the national average in 1990 had increased to 0.5 percent by 2000.

Chris Herstam, president of the Arizona Board of Regents, said some of the decline in educational achievement may be due to Arizona's location along the nation's southern border. He said the steady flow of immigrants, most of whom are not well-educated, could skew the figures somewhat.

But Herstam said that whatever the cause, it still leaves the state with the problem of creating an educated work force.

Farrell Quinlan, communications director for the Arizona Chamber of Commerce, agreed. He said having enough people with high school, college and advanced degrees is a major worry for the business community.

"There is a concern K-12 may not be preparing students for higher education and technical degrees," he said.

Gov. Janet Napolitano said the statistics back her contention that education needs to be the top priority for the state - and for the available funds.

And State Schools Superintendent Tom Horne, while questioning whether the figures are statistically significant, said the numbers do point up a larger national problem. He said two-thirds of all jobs require advanced reading skills.

"If we don't do a better job of training our high-school graduates, by 2006 we'll have 20 million jobs that can't be filled by American workers," he said. And those jobs, he said, may end up going overseas.

Herstam said the census statistics mirror other studies he has seen.

"At the very time we are trying to produce more adults in this state with college degrees to compete in a knowledge-based economy, we see that, compared to other states, they are growing their college-educated population faster than ours," he said. "And that's alarming."

But the problem isn't confined to the question of getting Arizonans to attend college. Herstam said it is equally possible that the state's dropout rate - by some measures the highest in the nation - reduces the number of residents who are eligible for admission. Napolitano acknowledges the problem.

"The way to increase the number going to college is to increase high-school graduation," she said. And that, she added, is directly linked to making sure that children learn to read in the early grades.

Herstam said even if the cause of the state's lagging education is the high immigrant population, he said he believes the university system can do more to increase the percentage of college graduates and prepare them for the jobs of the future.

"We are urging all three of our public universities to aggressively recruit freshmen that may not be inclined to pursue a college education," he said.

The University of Arizona, for example, has pledged to be a Hispanic-serving institution in the next decade.


Support the Mount Lemmon reforestation and trail-rebuilding effort by buying Aspen Fire commemorative items at LemmonAid.com

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[i]

[IGNORANCE JUST ADDS]

"Taking away what is theirs"...priceless!!!

Free public education, health care, social services benefits. Taxpayer funded roads and parks that illegals utilize. So they pay sales tax? Does that really make up for what they receive? And not all illegals have tax numbers. Do you really feel they are voluntarily going to come forward and request a tax number if they are already getting free services without paying for them?

The American culture is under attack. The English language is slowly eroding. I wonder who is responsible for that (Spanish replacing English)? Gangs are increasing? I wonder who is responsible for that (MS13 largest in the nation)? Dual citizenship? I wonder who is responsible for that (Mexican government demands this)?

It all goes back to Mexico, the most arrogant and corrupt government in the history of the world. And guess what...the Mexicans can give two hoots less about you, a gringo. All they care about is what they can get.

Step into reality and stop the hands across America BS!

[ALoneSoldier]

I am half mexican, and even I don't understand what the problem is with sealing off the border to illegal immigrants, or why anyone in their right mind would want to give them drivers licenses at this point in our nations history. My great grand parents came to this country legally, started business and fought in WW1, WW2, vietnam and I just returned from Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. Just because I have brown skin doesn't mean that I dont have just as much invested in this country as the rest of you, and I just don't understand why we would want to throw it all away for pollitical correctness. As much as I admire President Bush he is still a politician and I don't expect him to tackel anything this touchy until after the election. Edited by: ALoneSoldier at: 9/13/03 10:16 am

[WantaghDem]

" My great grand parents came to this country legally, started business and fought in WW1, WW2, vietnam..."

So, your great-grandfather was, what, like, SEVENTY in 'nam? Man, I bet he showed them youngsters of FIFTY a thing or two about mounted cavalry charges!
________
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[W]

I cannot believe that anyone would seriously blame our President for any illeagal immigration problems.

If anything, the Department of Homeland Security(established by our President) will help to deter this activity as a by-product of its central goal which is, of course, "security".

It will be harder for illeagals to get into and exist in this country.

This is just another example of people trying to throw as many things against the wall(against our president) just to see if anything sticks---and frankly, it makes me sick.

This is a man who is going to change the world for our children. They will not ever have to live in fear of another 9/11 and they shouldn't.

There are very evil people in this world but they messed with the wrong man and are now, rightly suffering the consequenses. I have no pity for them.

Just have faith in the people running the show right now. Believe me, they know what they're doing. I couldn't say the same for the Dems. Fortunately, that will not be a problem.

[WantaghDem]

Couldn't say the same for the Dems?

Eight years of unprecented peacetime expansion

$300B in surplus

Balanced budgets

Unprecendented expansion of military technology and strength

Eight years of NOT ONE SOLDIER SENT BY CLINTON OVERSEAS KILLED by enemy fire

Peace, prosperity, international leadership, world acclaim - ALL DEMOCRAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS, 1993-2001.

REPUBLICAN ACCOMPLISHMENTS, 2001-2003:

World plunged into economic, political, social, medical crisis by Republicans

War

Increases in poverty, disease, famine, political instability

War

Increases in terrorism, bankruptcy, economic losses

War

More job lost than any Prez since Hoover

War

Historic deficits

War

Doubling of the national debt

War

Crime, social crises, financial ruin

War

International scorn and shunning

War

Destruction of three countries

War

War crimes
________
Herbal Store (http://herbalhealthshop.com)

[ItsOK]

Heard Chuck Schumer in Mineola for 9/11 remembrance day and he clearly put the blame for the attacks on the world trade center at Pres. Clinton's feet.

America was attacked throughout the '90s and he did NOTHING... except stick his head in the sand and ignore the obvious -- you can't negotiate with terrorists or terrorist states.

Now we have to clean up messes in the MidEast, Korea, Africa, Southeast Asia. When do you think these terrorists were trained? During the Clinton years.


Don't tell me not one soldier was killed by enemy fire. Have you forgotten Somalia?!

You can't possibly be this stupid or can you?

If the draft dodging weasel had done ANYTHING at all to protect our interests overseas, those towers would still be standing today.

Thanks to short-sighted, liberal jerks like YOU thousands died two years ago.


________
Tf103 (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_TF103)

[WantaghDem]

...I'ma gonna enjoy thisa one!

This is what I said:

"Eight years of NOT ONE SOLDIER SENT BY CLINTON OVERSEAS KILLED by enemy fire"

And this is TRUE - and you'd know it if you were educated enough to READ on your own!

This is what YOU said:

"Don't tell me not one soldier was killed by enemy fire. Have you forgotten Somalia?!"

Glad you brought this up! LOOK AT WHAT I SAID ABOVE. Clinton, you obviously don't know, DIDN'T SEND THE TROOPS TO SOMALIA!!!

BUSH I DID!!!!!

And then you said:

"You can't possibly be this stupid or can you?"

Pretty ironic, eh, since you were DEAD WRONG?!!? Are Republicans going to post whiny complaints about you saying this? Of course not....conservatives/Republicans are hypocrites! They complain about me "calling names" (when, here, one or two OBVIOUSLY fit you) but not when one of "their own" does it! H Y P O C R I T E S ! ! !

And then you said:

"If the draft dodging weasel had done ANYTHING at all to protect our interests overseas, those towers would still be standing today."

Hey! We agree on something! You obviously refer to Dubya, who CLEARLY DODGED NOT ONLY THE DRAFT, but then DODGED HIS DODGE by DESERTING THE NATIONAL GUARD! Clinton, on the other hand, was ALWAYS ELIGIBLE FOR THE DRAFT.....he even GAVE UP HIS STUDENT DEFERMENT IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE.....BUT WASN'T CALLED.

So, since you OBVIOUSLY mean Bush - yes! He was asleep - rather, DRUNK - at the wheel, and COMPLETELY DISREGARDED ALL WARNINGS FROM ALL SOURCES ABOUT A TERRORIST PLOT TO USE PLANES TO CRASH INTO BUILDINGS IN THE FALL OF 2001! At least Clinton DID SOMETHING about bin Laden (actually, more than a few things!).....BUSH DID NOTHING AND WE WERE VULNERABLE.

Funny...you call me two names, and you're wrong on both items you brought up!

H Y P O C R I T E !
________
WEBSITE HOST (http://hostndesign.com)

[ItsOK]

and you know it. Tossing a couple of cruise missiles into the desert when you know no one is there is NOTHING.

Somalia casualties were in October 1993 -- Clinton was president and had been for nearly a year. Check your facts before going on a rant.

Typical liberal democrat, if the facts won't help, make it up!

Have a nice day dear.
________
Herbal Health (http://herbalhealthshop.com)

[WantaghDem]

CLINTON DID NOT SEND TROOPS INTO SOMALIA....BUSH DID....

I know this is hard for a person who believes in the magic cloud being....but....No matter how many times you say it, it still won't come true!

REAGAN AND BUSH CREATED BIN LADEN!

THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE AS WELL AS DUBYA!!

Just like Rumsfeld is partly responsible for Saddam.....Rumsfelf personally gave Saddam a pair of gold spurs....this is YEARS after we knew he was a brutal dictator that the US created!

Just like Cheney...who sold SEVENTY MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF OIL EQUIPMENT TO SADDAM while he was CEO of HALLIBURTON....and this is a DECADE AFTER THE GULF WAR, and WHILE SADDAM WAS "DEFYING" US AND UN RESOLUTIONS!

You are the bad guys, in this one, and in most things.

Bad, bad, guys.
________
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[ItsOK]

Clinton was clearly the president in October 1993. Are you going to argue that he wasn't? Don't split hairs with me. He was president for nearly a year.

You need help.

Step away from the keyboard and try and relax. Take a walk. Unwind.

Consider this a friendly intervention.

We're here for you, you were obviously programmed at an early age to blame others for everything - you're a liberal democrat. It's just not your fault.
________
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[ALoneSoldier]

note i was speaking of my family, not one great grandfather, he was in world war one, my grandfather in world war two, my father and uncles in vietnam, and I just recently returned.

[WantaghDem]

IN EIGHT YEARS IN OFFICE, PRESIDENT WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON SENT NOT ONE SINGLE MEMBER OF THE ARMED FORCES INTO BATTLE WHO DIED OF ENEMY FIRE.

NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON.

THAT IS THE FACT, AND IT IS NOT SPLITTING HAIRS.


ALL SOMALIA CASUALTIES WERE TROOPS SENT TO SOMALIA BY PRESIDENT GEORGE H.W. BUSH IN DECEMBER 1992.

THAT IS THE FACT, AND IT IS NOT SPLITTING HAIRS.


PRESIDENTS REAGAN AND THE TWO BUSHES SENT A TOTAL OF 802 TROOPS TO THEIR DEATHS IN COMBAT.

THAT IS THE FACT, AND IT IS NOT SPLITTING HAIRS.


THE LAST TWO DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS TO SERVE - CARTER AND CLINTON - SENT NOT ONE SINGLE AMERICAN TO THEIR DEATH IN COMBAT.

NOT ONE.

THAT IS THE FACT, AND IT IS NOT SPLITTING HAIRS.
________
Louisee (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Louisee/)

[ItsOK]

Clinton (no need to get formal) was president for nearly a year when those men died. It was his policy and his indecision that got those men killed. He escalated our involvment in the conflict, authorized the doomed mission, and failed to authorize the needed support.

You can't possibly be this ignorant. Do you mean to tell us that you honestly don't get the point.

Leave the double speak to the lawyers and bureaucrats, dear.

You're simply wrong. Now shut up and accept it.
________
Lansing car assembly (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Lansing_Car_Assembly)

[WantaghDem]

less educated, less intelligent, and less aware politically....and you still tell others to "shut up"....are you really Bill O'Reilly?

It was Bush's decision to send troops into Somalia. HE SENT THEM. HE GOT THEM KILLED.

I knew I could get you to walk into THIS....according to your logic, WHOEVER IS PRESIDENT AT THE TIME OF AN INCIDENT GETS THE BLAME.

Does that mean that you blame Dubya for 9/11? I mean, they were both President for about the same time, and Dubya DID, after all, IGNORE specific and credible threats about Al Qaeda and airplanes, especially the FBI memo concerning Moussaoui and others....

YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.....
________
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[ItsOK]

You see in '93, Clinton had every opportunity to remove the troops committed to Somalia. He didn't. They died. He's responsible. He can't (and you can't argue) that he has no responsibility because he didn't originally deploy. It's absurd.

You made the assinine assertion in your post. You may have already forgotten so why don't you go back and revisit your rantings a couple of posts up this thread.

To compare the circumstances of 9/11 just shows how truly ignorant you are, dear.

Better to stay quiet and have people wonder than to peck away at your keyboard and remove any doubt.


________
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[ALoneSoldier]

After the President wins in 04 he needs to allow the military to support the Border Patrol at least with logistics. As we sit here tonight, foreign troops under the mexican flag are escorting drug dealers across our borders in Texas and Arizona and the border patrol is helpless to do anything about it as they are out gunned. Mexican President Fox is the just as big of a disapointment as a so called friend as the French.

[CatEye]

What is Tom Ridge, doing with his "Homeland security"?
Looks like not much, the FBI, CIA, & NSA still don't know what each agency is doing to stop "terrorist" how is the US going to stop the ongoing influx, of illegal's. :">
________
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[WantaghDem]

ItsOK - you are giving your personal, private opinion, to which you are entitled. I am giving you not only my professional, expert analysis, I'm tellling you what the mainstream of political scientists and historians would tell you.

Bill Clinton did not send a single troop into combat death. That's not a "rant" - and neither are any of my posts on this thread. It is a fact.

I was not "comparing" 9/11 to Somalia...the level of responsibility on Bush's shoulders for ignoring all of the warning signs cannot begin to compare to the level of responsibility on his father's shoulders for sending those men to their deaths in Somalia.

It's funny.....you conservatives like to have it both ways. You claim that Clinton was in office "long enough" to make changes in the Bush policy towards Somalia - and in the same breath, you claim that Bush II was NOT in office long enough to have made changes in the Clinton policy towards Al Qaeda. You can't have it both ways, but you will insist that you can....you can't see the lack of logic or actual facts in your statements.....which is why you are an amateur.


________
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[ALoneSoldier]

President Clinton sent 3,000 civilians to their death when he chose to cut the intelligence agencies in half along with our Military. He sent them to their death when that President who could find legal justification in sending tanks into waco texas and taking a boy in florida at machine gun point from his home, could not find legal justification for taking Bin Ladin from the Lybian government when offered, even though he knew it was his desire to kill americans he didn't think he could convict him in a court. And any soldiers who have died seeking Justice for our dead lays squarely at the feet of the man who put them in that position. Ex-President Bill Clinton. He will only wish history would be so kind as to remember him as a weak individual who couldn't keep it in his paints and as the second President to be impeached. But he will be mostly remembered for degrading the organizations meant to protect us and for not taking the Bin Ladin deal.

[WantaghDem]

Every once in a while, you get the Chris Ruddy groupies. Lone Soldier is obviously one of them. As far as I'm concerned, I'm quoting Jack from As Good As It Gets:

"Go sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here."
________
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[ItsOK]

you are all stocked up THERE with "crazy".

When you don't like where a thread is going, you get awfully touchy. Lone Soldier is absolutely right. Your knee-jerk liberal response is to attack anyone who makes sense. Typical.
________
CANNABIS COLLECTIVE (http://dispensaries.org/)

[Patriot]

"President Clinton sent 3,000 civilians to their death when he chose to cut the intelligence agencies in half along with our Military."

Clinton gave us the military that defeated the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and the Baathists in Iraq. Quite a strong military, don't you think?
Clinton inherited a lousy intelligence apparatus from Reagan/Bush1 that couldn't even predict the fall of the Soviet Union. It still couldn't predict uranium sales to Iraq, find WMD's or Iraqi resistance under Bush 2.

"taking a boy in florida at machine gun point from his home"

The boy's home was in Cuba with his father. I hope you never have your family ripped from you due to your politics. Although you seem to think it's OK.

20-20 hindsight is great, yet you still need glasses. The "bin-Laden deal" wouldn't have worked because we are a nation of LAWS and we can't just lock someone up because we believe them to be evil. If we could and we buy your argument, you are liable to be locked up yourself for blindly following a phony and a liar who went AWOL when his country needed him.
________
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[WantaghDem]

This country needs more patriots like you, Patriot. Good job.

I for one have given up on this loner. But more power to you!
________
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[ALoneSoldier]

"Clinton gave us the military that defeated the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and the Baathists in Iraq. Quite a strong military, don't you think?"

Nevermind that President Bush has already raised the defense budget significantly prior to this, I don't find the measure of an American military machine in its ability to defeat a third world country which we have to feed while defeating it. Perhaps if the military hadn't been so degraded the last 8 years we would have bin ladin as you liberals say at least once a day. As though you would do a better job hunting cave dwelling terrorist. In 1998 while President Clinton waged his war over Kosovo which just happens to be the most mineral rich deposit in the world, the Army was being forced to send kids though basic training without ever having fired a weapon. The reason, the Army ran out of munitions. It is also the reason why poor maintance lead to the crash of 4 apache helicopters.


"Clinton inherited a lousy intelligence apparatus from Reagan/Bush1 that couldn't even predict the fall of the Soviet Union. It still couldn't predict uranium sales to Iraq, find WMD's or Iraqi resistance under Bush 2."

So President Clintons grand plan to improve things was to cut out all new technologies and eliminate all human intelligence on the ground. If the Intelligence services were bad under Regan/Bush, the became even worse under President Clinton. He took all their money, how do you justify that? You can't. And don't give me that 2/20 hindsite bs. Republicans have been running on a strong military and Intelligence services for decades.

"The boy's home was in Cuba with his father. I hope you never have your family ripped from you due to your politics. Although you seem to think it's OK."

I think its wrong to take someone at gun point who doesnt want to go back to a communist state which we grant people asylum from. I also think that under President Clinton the search for Weapons of mass destruction amounted to unregistered shotguns in Waco texas, in which he unleased Tanks and Apache Helicopters on the 'evil doers'. Does the constitution allow for this... only under martial law. But so far President Clinton had run into no problems finding a legal justification, even when arguing that the word 'is' isn't really a lie because you see 'is' implies the present and no sir I was not currently recieving a blow job when you asked me that question so you 'is' is perfectly correct and honest. During all that, no problem finding a legal justification, but when it came down to arresting a man, who we knew was plotting attacks against america, and he let him go because he hadn't done it yet..... thats simply not caring as much about national security as you do messing around with interns... the man who found a legal loop whole for that couldnt find a reason to arrest bin ladin... threatening a terrorist attack is illegal by the way.

Some people just don't get it. And wugdem, you stopped talking to me because I handed you your head on the 'Bush' thread. If you would like to argue the information concerning Iraqs link to terrorist or weapons of mass destruction, come on back and dispute the evidence. I won't hold my breath.

[ALoneSoldier]

And President Bush failed to show up for a Physical in the Air Naitonal Gaurd. First of all, ANG is the same as no military experience in the first place, and second, it's not as though he really went AWOL, he failed to show up for a flight physical. He didn't let his country down when 'they needed him the most'. Id say we need him the most now, and him not showing up to get weighed in one weekend hardly amounts to desertion..... now going to school over seas and writings a letter saying that you hate the military.. now that might be considered something worse.

[WantaghDem]

...got it wrong. It wasn't just a physical...Bush failed to report for one and one half years for ANY ANG duty whatsoever. He requested a temp transfer from TX to AL, and didn't show up at either place for a year and a half.

You're right - he wasn't AWOL...he was gone too long to be considered AWOL....he was a DESERTER.
________
Kitchen Measures (http://kitchenmeasures.com/)

[Patriot]

It takes years to build a strong military and Bush's budget doesn't weigh on the current readiness of those forces. You obviously don't know military affairs. As for complaints about basic training and poor maintenance of equipment, those charges have been recurring since 1776.

Since you have such a short attention span and only remember things since Bush 2 was "elected", please explain to us why the president and the Republican Congress cut veterans' benefits?

You say: "Republicans have been running on a strong military and Intelligence services for decades."

Yeah. Your NCO's don't let you near weapons, do they? The wonderful Republicans predicted the fall of the USSR (NOT!), knew that Hussein would invade Kuwait in 1990 and found uranium travelling from Niger to Iraq. Add in Reagan's 1986 Beirut jaunt and his botch-job of a Grenada invasion and I don't get your point. You know, the one on top of your head. Remember, it was a Republican president who ran from Vietnam with his tail 'tween his legs.

"I think its wrong to take someone at gun point who doesnt want to go back to a communist state which we grant people asylum from."

I assumed that English was your first language. I guess I was wrong. The boy wanted to go back to his father. The uncle said no. So your point again is? Do you actually think before you write?

"First of all, ANG is the same as no military experience in the first place, and second, it's not as though he really went AWOL"

First, all the ANG zoomies who fought in Desert Shield/Storm would disagree with you. Second, you're either AWOL or not. Bush didn't show, so was AWOL.
So you think it's alright to shirk your duties and responsibilities to your country if your National Guard and a Republican? Or just a Republican.

You, assumed by your name, have done more to support your nation during this war on terrorism than the current President did when he was called to serve. Reflect on that.

You should rethink your support for Bush and the Republicans. They are bad news and the real hangover is yet to come.
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[WantaghDem]

"Bush didn't show, so was AWOL."

Well, that's correct, for 30 days. After that, with no show and no word, it's desertion.

It's clear - it's not a Vince Foster conspiracy theory.

1. Bush was in TX ANG.
2. Bush was working in AL on a campaign.
3. Bush asked TX if he could drill in AL. TX said OK.
4. Bush NEVER showed ONCE in AL.
5. Bush NEVER showed again in TX.
6. Both sets of records PROVE this.
7. At the end of his "time" Bush's TX superiors said they couldn't fairly evaluate him since he never showed up for duty.
8. Bush's father was head of the RNC, so he was given a break and discharged honorably.

THIS IS PLAIN AND SIMPLE FACT.
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[ALoneSoldier]

I am a NCO and I'll get back to you tomorrow I've got a prior engagement.

[streamline]

Before you speak about how much you dislike immigrants coming to this country first get the facts straight as to why they're coming here and they're not the only immigrant group coming here.
We have a large growing population of Russians that are living ilegally here in NY which we don't speak about.
We have many Italians who are just off the boat in Nassau who we don't speak about.
We have Africans and Jamaicans who are just off the boat in Hempstead who we don't speak about. So, it's not just Hispanics who are here as ilegals. In fact according to stats Hispanics was the largest group that submitted US citizen applications in this Country.

Yes, we have an immigration issue. However, before you speak get the facts straight as to why they come here and to be specific we'll talk about the Hispanic Community. For example, the Salvadorean Community who began to migrate here in the early 80's came here because there was a war going on in their country. WHY, well not because they like to go to war it was because the US as always is involved in selecting who will be the president of the country and many American companies are leaving to El Salvador to exploit the people by paying them wages that you would be indignant to work for. During the war the US was the one that supported arms dealing and attack on the Salvadorean people so when things get rough people tend to move. I think you would do the same if your life was threatened. Now many Salvadoreans, Mexicans are coming here because there are no decent jobs in their country. Just because there is an American Company providing jobs to their country does not mean that they're paying the decent wage.

Please, if those who are on this board love to murmur under your mouths about these issues, make sure you get the facts. Isn't this what is all about in the US, if not then you're probably not a true American.
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[GodBlessAmerica]

In twenty years there will be millions of illegal aliens that are too old to work. They will be crying for a monthly social security check even though they didn't pay into the system because they got paid under the table. The lilly livered liberals will demand that we pay the losers social security. And they will get it. The illegal Mexicans are going to make the USA a toilet bowl like Mexico. If they weren't so gutless, they would overthrow their corrupt government and use all of that beach front property to make the biggest and best resort country in the world. But it is easier to come to the USA and ruin our country.

[SuzieQ]

You are absolutely right. The government is saying that there will not be enough SS left for the folks that are here legally and the citizens. So down the line what will happen is that there will be no SS or there will be less for everyone as the illegal aliens will be crying for their share and our bleeding heart politicians will give it to them. Once again the people will get the shaft. A percentage of the people want the borders opened to let everyone in but they do not think of the implication it has on the average working man. The elites can bear this burden with ease but the ordinary folks are the ones taking it on the chin.
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[streamline]

Well, we cannot forget that it's not just the illegal Mexicans who are going to make this a problem. IT's the also the illegal Russians in Brooklyn, Italians in Westbury, Africans and Jamaicans in Hempstead and of course all those illegals in NYC that we don't know who's who that are causing this problem. Again, get your facts, within the illegal Hispanics in this Country many of them are paying their taxes by applying for an ITIN # at the social security office near you. This number serves as an alternate SS# in order for those who work off the books to pay off their taxes. Many Hispanics are doing this because many of them are processing their INS status here and this is a plus on their record in order for the Immigration office to consider giving them their legality in this Country.
Boy, there's a lot of frustrated people on this board who love to talk garbage and have nothing better to do. Instead of babbling you should be out there working to make sure that we have great leaders that we fill those clubs that are dying such as the Kiwanis and other clubs. You should be working on your children who these days are just running wild with no sense of direction. White kids going off on shooting rages, minorities in gangs, etc. Kids have no morals these days everything is about what they're going to get paid for doing a favor. We're creating helpless and useless kids for the future of this society. PLEASE WORK ON THE IMPORTANT PRIORITIES.
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[H R Bloke]

A Individual Taxpayer ID number is the ONLY way that someone with out a social security card can show the US Government that they are on the level, not on the dole.

This number is also used by so called "legal" workers as well, and amongst all the other things that it does is the one that I think is MOST crucial:

a person who works as a $50 day manual laborer and files his reports under the ITIN can show NO TAX LIABILITY because $15,600 annual salary is TOO LOW to be taxed!

Duh!

[SuzieQ]

Anyone who is here illegaly does not deserve any kind of consideration for legalization. We have rules which we abide by and you are suggesting that we circumvent these rules and give illegal aliens a wink and a nod!! If you do not see something wrong with that picture, you are hopeless. Why are you making the comparison between our children and illegal aliens? One has nothing to do with the other. Wait till it is time for you to collect your SS and there is nothing left. Then let's see how forgiving you feel toward the illegal aliens. They are pushing aside American workers and you think that is okay! I do not understand how anyone can defend this assualt on our country and be so passive in their acceptance of it, perhaps even embrace it. Unless, of coure, you are an illegal alien.
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[Scary alien]

Suzie Q stop posting in different websites to agitate. This is all you do. Stay in Farmingville with your racist SQL friends.
We don't need any more hate in this country and particularly in Long Island. The majority does not feel the way you do. You are a few and you are loud, but that's about it.

[Sundance]

First off who voted you the spokesman for the majority? Second alot of people think SuzyQ is right on the mark with her posts so keep your racist and hate remarks to yourself. Notice I did not use the word majority
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[SuzieQ]

I would like you to tell me exactly which of my remarks are racist? Are you saying that I am racist because I do not like the fact that you are here illegaly? That I am paying for your care and you are giving me nothing in return but quality of life issues in my town? Are you saying that I should let you walk into my country and move into a flophouse in my neighborhood and I should welcome you? Are you saying that it is okay to drive in my neighborhood without a license while I am paying a high cost to drive my car between insurance, inspection license fees, etc. You are demanding that we take care of you and we should do so happily because you are the most important person in this country? How do I know if you are a criminal or a terrorist or a disease carrier. I don't! You have pushed aside other legal immigrants for jobs, for entrance into our country and for social services. Well no thank you pal. You are not welcome here and over 70% of the American citizens agree that you are not welcome so if that is racist, so be it. By the way, do not presume to know who my friends are. All you have to know is that you are not one of them.
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[POLLY SIGH]

George W. Bush definitely does have troubling ideas about enforcement of immigration law. So did his Dad. That "giant sucking sound" we heard definitely was the sound of jobs leaving this country. The thunder clap after was the rush of undocumented foreign nationals entering this country illegally. Maybe we did hafta Nafta, but it sure feels wrong. At the very least our government should work to change the law instead of just go ahead and break it. Kids say a prayer in school and right away we're in the Supreme Court, but Immigration Law has become arbitrary. It won't matter soon anymore anyway after all the tech jobs are in China, India, Pakistan. Would you like fries with that?
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[slaq567]

70% of Americans want our immigration laws enforced. Next time, think before you speak.
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[POLLY SIGH]

Next time read before you post.
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[POLLY SIGH]

I didn't see you were replying to the Scary One. My bad.
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