DWI car siezures in nassau

[Anonymus]

I heard the attorney handling all the DWI car siezures quit. What's up with that?

[Lawyer Milloy]

so Lorna Doone could replace him with a higher paid indivdual.

[Stick To Football]

The DWI car seizure attorney is not an employee of the County Attorney's office, but instead is a special counsel - A Republican no less.

[counselor]

He may have called it quits, however someone from his office is out there still serving subpoena's for hearings on seized vehicles on his behalf and the county's, plus his office mailings have been incorrect. They mailed out the wrong papers to the wrong defendants.

[A query for Ha Ha Ha]

The reason ms. chaikin was so backlogged re seizures was she was the only one handling it, with the exception of a secretary and occasional intern. That of course did not include her other duties.

I know Dave Goldin & co. claimed there are 6 DCAs handling this, but word out of the office has the number as being two actually(lol, I suppose if you count the chain of command it might be 6, but since the chain wont be doing anything I dont) assisted by one of the few truly peerless csea employees left in the office(pulled as is common practice from the ugly person bureau of torts(reference to the fact that as mostly pre-current administration employees, they get alot of the scut work and none of the glory)).

I can't say for a fact what the deal was re Mr. Campanelli's dispute with the county, but my understanding is because it was because of new procedures instituted for which he was not to be compensated under the old contract. (Which simply provided him with a percentage of each car auctioned).
Mr. Campanelli was never a foolish man, and hit upon the brilliant (albeit in my opinion operating outside of his contract) idea of releasing cars directly to leasing/financing cos for hefty legal fees which got transferred to the owner/driver/lessee. I'd be curious to know if the county got a cut on those fees, since this was not done according to contract(and before those of you ask how do you know, simple i've seen the contract).

[ha ha ha]

Who ever gets stuck with the job, there will be mistakes made. They have a big mess to clean up. And some very important problems will be overlooked. For instance, while the law was designed to punish the drunk driver, it has impacted and punished others connected to the person who went stupid. And another problem that has been overlooked is the fact that the impounded vehicles have been subjected to what it typically known on the streets as "mugging." Either this stripping of parts has taken place within the towing operation itself that has the contract with the county or the stripping of parts has taken place at the final resting place for the vehicles, the police impound lot itself which by the way is under camera surveillance.
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[Attentive]

To be sure, the county and Campanelli will be sorting out there differences for some time now. Mr. C is officially releived of his contract, however, and just how many case the County Attorney's office has acted on is anyones guess...

But the big news today is the State Court of Appeals decision on the Canavan case. As if this whole legal mess couldn't get any more complicated (which is odd considering it's supposed to be a clear cut deterrant...but then again so is the death penalty and look at the legal crap attached to that) the court ruled that the law is too vague, but that seizing cars of drunk drivers is good. I guess when Nassau cramed through that second version of the law after the March deicision that gutted the law they didn't cover all their bases.

The State of Appeals decision reads: "We note, however, that since, pursuant to the ordinance, every conceivable offense -- however minor -- may be subject to forfeiture, limited only by the discretion of County officials in determining whether to invoke it, the potential for disproportionality is great. Moreover, without clear notice to the public that a particular punishment may be imposed for a particular offense, the deterrent effect of the penalty may be lost. In any event, the forfeiture of an automobile for a minor traffic infraction such as driving with a broken taillight or failing to signal would surely be "grossly disproportional to the gravity of a defendant's offense" (Bajakajian, 524 US at 334).
Although the County has, as a matter of policy, decided to focus its enforcement efforts on drunk driving arrests, the ordinance by its terms permits forfeiture for any offense. Moreover, the County advises us that the challenged Code provision is utilized to seek forfeiture in non-drunk driving cases as well. The statute itself is thus devoid of standards as to which petty offenses will result in the implementation of the forfeiture provision, thereby enhancing the opportunity for disproportionate enforcement. Indeed, the County's unilateral decision to invoke the ordinance's nearly limitless application in certain instances and not in others highlights the infirmity inherent in the statute itself. By encompassing many minor and technical violations that could not justify forfeiture, the ordinance, as enacted, risks violation of the Excessive Fines Clause."

Well people, do YOU think the $6,500 Saturn Canavan had impounded is excessive? Add to that her $400 fine and a 90 day lisence supension... But really, since this suit her car has been held, depreciating all the while. It's probably just a pile of rust now.

The worst part about all of this is when the car is leased or financed. If someone lost their Nissan Mixima, let's just say, and it's auctioned for $5,000 when it could have earned twice that on the market, the defendant is stuck paying the other half of their payments on a car they no longer own. This is minus the 26% fee that was extracted for Mr. C which another suit alleges was illegal as all proceeds are supposed to go to Narcotics enforcement. A suit by lease companies also alleges the auctions are not at all regulated and that the comany can't inspect their own cars or defend themselves during the forfeiture action effectively being punished for a clients actions. Over 80% of the seized cars a leased or financed according to the county. Canavan is actually lucky in that respect.

Ultimately, here's the final word of the decision today: "Finally, we recognize that the County -- in adding provisions to its ordinance during the course of this appeal -- has already taken steps to address some of the issues we identify here today. Nevertheless, because the statute suffers from a variety of procedural defects, the County would perhaps be well served by rewriting the ordinance – originally enacted in 1939 -- in its entirety.
Accordingly, the order of the Appellate Division should be affirmed, with costs."

As far as allegations of the cars being stripped while at the impound lots (which will soon be at private lots again costing taxpayers who knows how much $$$ since there has not been an auction in months to clear the inventory) I would be interested to find out which tow firms the county hired for this job and if NCPD has ever filed a report of a car being tampered with after being impounded. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......

And for the record, from what I hear, the County Attorney's are not looking to replace Mr. C--they want to prove the office can handle this work in house.

[hornet]

>>>>I would be interested to find out which tow firms the county hired for this job and if NCPD has ever filed a report of a car being tampered with after being impounded. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......

There was at least one case where a gentleman's car was impounded, and items were stolen from the car after it was broken into. He was reimbursed.

[Ronald Mask]

First, the County Attorney drafts a Constitutionally Defective Smoking Ban. Next, the office drafts an asset forfeiture statute that fails to pass constitutional muster. This is a pathetic performance indeed.

And by the way, thanks for the $87,000 from your last gig.

[RkFast]

So glad the DWI forfeiture law was struck down. The very idea that someone can be caught, conviced and punished for a crime right there on the spot broke just about every tenet of the Constitution and the American Justice System.
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[Attentive]

The law has to be changed base on its language, but in concept the court agrees with it. Funny the county is arogant enough to say this won't stop them from taking our cars while they figure out how to change the law. But the best part of all: How much is the county going to have to repay? All those cars rotting away in lots while this legal battle raged have just been seriously depreciating. The county is screwed.

[asset forfeiture]

Here's the Court's words on the legislative drafting skills of the county attorney office. Who did this job? the new york city resident imports from the city corp counsel?

"Finally, we recognize that the County -- in adding provisions to its ordinance during the course of this appeal -- has already taken steps to address some of the issues we identify here today. Nevertheless, because the statute suffers from a variety of procedural defects, the County would perhaps be well served by rewriting the ordinance – originally enacted in 1939 -- in its entirety.
Accordingly, the order of the Appellate Division should be affirmed, with costs."

[Ronald Mask]

I am glad to see that LBG is not the only person who loves me .... And I am glad to see that she is still upholding the rights of the disenfranchised and criminally degenerate, and spreading the liberal ways of New York City to the reactionary suburbs. It is about time that guys like me can catch a break in this county because of her hardwork and dedication. Thanks again for the $87K, Ms. Lorna Bade Gotrocks.

[Invisible]

Geez, a pat on the back sure feels good. It is the most thanks and praise I have received since the new administration has taken "hold". I really thought I was invisible to all, thank you.

[Query]

you still don't get it.
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[Eyes wide closed]

What happened to Guy Curbious car ?

Will he get special treatment because he works for Suozzi ?

[Query]

When her affirmative litigation bureau was such a failure in New York City and was criticized in a study conducted by the Association of the Bar of the City of new York's Civil Rights Committee for a backlog of nearly 4,000 cases.
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[Hey Invisible]

Would you rather be invisible, or get blasted by the Association of the Bar of the City of New York for the incompetent management of an entire case calendar? Invisible is much better. And silence would be golden.

[Special Prosecutors]

NHTSA Says Fight Against Drunk Driving Needs Renewal
12/11/2003



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Dr. Jeffrey Runge, head of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), said renewed efforts are needed to reduce drunk driving, the Associated Press reported Dec. 3.

"Since the early 1990s, we haven't made any progress," Runge said.

According to Runge, the number of alcohol-related fatalities has remained constant from 2000 to 2002. Last year, there were 17,419 alcohol-related deaths. Of those, more than 15,000 were killed by drivers who had a blood-alcohol level higher than 0.08 percent.

Runge said a bill under consideration in the U.S. Congress would allow the NHTSA to provide grants to states who establish specialized prosecutors or courts dedicated solely to drunk-driving cases.

[WYSIYG]

For those who are interested, the NCPD has begun to release the impounded vehicles. And in doing so, as they are faced with dealing with a large number of citizens, the NCPD members directly involved with this have behave in the most appropriate manner. They have been treating the owners of the impounded vehicle with respect despite the circumstances that led up to seizure of any vehicle.

[gvharford123]

Since the law is considered unconstitutional, the victims in these cases. (Of getting there cars seized and taking away from them should NO WAY be neglected)!!!! Nassau county thought they were going to get them selves out of bankruptcy by selling off peoples cars and it figures only these selfish politicians get burned in the long run!!! Anyone who has been convicted of this crime should be well compensated and I hope many of law suites bring justice to the courts and to the victims penalized over a law that should have never been taking place in the long run!!!!

[hornet]

First off, NYS Law allows for the seizure of property used in the commision of a crime. If you're driving Drunk, NOT IMPAIRED, it is a crime, and, as such, can be legally seized. What Nassau county is guilty of is sloppy gov't. They followed the lead of NYC, and dusted off an old law, rather than write a new one. It was done to take the heat off the then growing budget mess. What SHOULD be done with a drunk driver? Simply put
them in the back seat and drive them home, or allow them to "sleep it off" for awhile and try to get home safely...?

[Attentive]

It's been said repeatedly: punishment for DWI (yes, not DWAI) should be to have the offender pay for the installation of a ignition controlling breatalyzer after conviction. It will save the county money (although they won't earn any...but they didn't earn all that much anyway since they sucked at enforcing this the majority of the time), save the courts time, and leave the offender in a significant pickle. I mean, other states already do this, it just isn't as threatening as taking away your car. But the process is so consistently flawed that it doesn't make sense anymore. How many suits is Nassau facing over this? Then there's cases outside Nassau that could affect it as well. When a law is challenged so many times, you'd think the pols would get the hint.
Like I said, ignition breathalyzer installed at the guilty party's expence for convicted DWI. Plus the usual license supension, fines and skyrocketing insurance premiuim should teach the fools to respect the rules of the road.

[TheFacts]

Before attacking DWI forfeitures, you should be familiar with the facts. First, forfeiture is more effective in deterring drunk driving that criminal sanctions or interlock devices. The reason is simple. when a person gets behind the wheel after drinking they do not perceive it as a possibility that they may go to jail for driving drunk. By contrast, they have no problem believing that that their car can be seized under a forfeiture program, and that scares the hell out of them. Before Nassau County implemented the forfeiture program, the Police Dept was arresting over 6,000 drunk drivers per year in Nassau County alone. During the first year Nassau implemented its seizure program, drunk driving offenses dropped by 36% and the number of accidents caused by drunk drivers in Nassau County dropped by 26%. Moreover, while criminal sanctions, such as jail, cost taxpayers money, forfeiture programs actually generate money for taxpayers. In 2002 Nassau's program generated over 1.1 million. Finally, the "harshness" of forfeiture can be lessened by allowing for "hardship exceptions" which Nassau's program included. The key is that, with forfeiture law being so complex, the persons handling the program must know what the're doing. If they don't, the program will collapse under the weight of the legal challenges they will invite. If handled well, forfeiture programs save lives, generate money, and reduce car insurances rates for everyone else by reducing the car-accident rating applied to the respective County by all of the major auto insurance companies. Those are the facts.

[the facts]

Before attacking DWI forfeitures, you should be familiar with the facts. First, forfeiture is more effective in deterring drunk driving that criminal sanctions or interlock devices. The reason is simple. when a person gets behind the wheel after drinking they do not perceive it as a possibility that they may go to jail for driving drunk. By contrast, they have no problem believing that that their car can be seized under a forfeiture program, and that scares the hell out of them. Before Nassau County implemented the forfeiture program, the Police Dept was arresting over 6,000 drunk drivers per year in Nassau County alone. During the first year Nassau implemented its seizure program, drunk driving offenses dropped by 36% and the number of accidents caused by drunk drivers in Nassau County dropped by 26%. Moreover, while criminal sanctions, such as jail, cost taxpayers money, forfeiture programs actually generate money for taxpayers. In 2002 Nassau's program generated over 1.1 million. Finally, the "harshness" of forfeiture can be lessened by allowing for "hardship exceptions" which Nassau's program included. The key is that, with forfeiture law being so complex, the persons handling the program must know what the're doing. If they don't, the program will collapse under the weight of the legal challenges they will invite. If handled well, forfeiture programs save lives, generate money, and reduce car insurances rates for everyone else by reducing the car-accident rating applied to the respective County by all of the major auto insurance companies. Those are the facts.
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[the facts]

the county used a statute to seize cars for DWAI as well folks. Thats a violation. talk about it later.
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[hahahaha]

As you stated...the apparatus that deters a drunk driver from operating a vehicle...first of all, the appeal process that will grant a convicted DWI driver's impounded vehicle to be equipped with that apparatus is one condition that is very rarely given out. And that is hardly ever.

Also, not only does the convicted DWI operator have to pay over 700 dollars for that instrument on top of all other penalties, after a full year has passed, the vehicle still has to be returned to the county anyway. They still lose the vehicle. Hopefully after a year the convicted DWI operator stops being like a moron and doesn't drink and drive.

Plus, the return of the vehicle back to the county after a year is along with returning that apparatus that they paid for on top of everything else.

And I mean on top of everything else the court has decided, including attending a drunk driving course at a local community college that costs 175.00. And get this, that drunk driving course has a considerable amount of repeat offenders.

Now don't forget that there is the monetary fines and expenses due for a DWI conviction. This is on top of any private lawyers fees, usually around 1500 dollars for at least three court appearances.

And then there is a court appointed lawyer that is paid for by our taxes, the court fees and the DA"s salary. The end result is usually a fine over 400 dollars on top of losing the vehicle. Plus, if allowed, a restricted license for about 75.00. This is while they still lose the vehicle that was impounded.

All of that doesn't take into account any court decided DWI program they may have to attend that is not at their expense which is usually paid for by medical insurance companies, something we all wind up paying for.

As for that apparatus that measures the alcohol level that was installed because of the DWI operator in the first place, it does not know the difference from the convicted DWI driver and any one person who has access to the same vehicle. And after ten minutes, the vehicle shuts down completely.

Either way, no matter what the cost or consequences and despite that the seizure law did impact DWI drivers, if a person who abuses alcohol does have access to any vehicle, including yours, he or she will operate it. Even if he or she has been convicted time after time after time.

[Bill oDouglas]

Still special treatment for the rich. Either everybody has equall access or nobody has access. Seperate but equal went out a long time ago. By the way, don't get that steamed up. I hope your not taking XANAX and driving.

[Bill oDouglash]

Use of ignition locks are unconstitutional
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In my view you are treating the wealthy who can afford the $500 bucks differently( letting them keep their transport) than those who can not afford the machine must take public transport.

This clearly creates two classes of punishment for the same crime based on financial ability.

Any thoughts

[the facts]

Your posting is incorrect. Nassau County never seized a car incidient to an arrest for DWAI. Vehicles were only seized for DWI's. However, where a person charged with DWI resolved his criminal case by taking a plea to a DWAI, while his Breathalyzer test registered over .10, the car was still forfeited because he was actually DWI, irrespective of the fact that he got a reduced plea.
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[Treat the Problem]

Close bars at 1:00AM during the week and 2:00AM on weekends.

Hold bartenders and bar owners accountable for serving intoxicated persons or letting them leave an establishment crocked. Use plain clothes units for enforcement.

Force bars to install breath testers for patron's use.

No buybacks or free drinks. Use plain clothes units for enforcement.

Mandate all drinking establishments post a drink-to-weight ratio chart prominently for patron use.

Introduce a uniform cab fare by distance travelled.

Add mass transit to main routes at closing time. Having the buses stop at 8:00PM is stupid.

No one is serious about the issue because the liquor lobby is strong, most everyone likes a drink, and no one likes to admit that there, but for the grace of God, go I.

[counsellor]

mea culpa, you may be right. The DWAI forfeitures I'm aware of did all start as DWIs. However, an arrest does not = a conviction, a plea does. So when they plead to DWAI thats all they did in the eyes of the law. I guess I only get a small portion of the apple on this one.
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[counsellor]

yes, your'e right, DT. The forfeiture ordinances, felony and the misbegotten ones dealing w/the misdemeanors/violations are both civil remedy statutes.
As such, a lesser standard is needed(preponderance of evidence I believe, although I would have argued for the intermediate std btwn that and beyond a reasonable doubt so as to improve client's chances)

I had heard around the courthouse that a couple of times someone beat the DWI rap only to still lose their car based on the differing standards.

Time will tell if a new statute is successfully enacted but personally I believe it largely unconstitutional. I think such a statute should be very specific re offenses and instrumentalities if nothing else.

On the bright side, since Lorna & co. are not moving on the forfeiture statute issue, I guess those DCAs can be utilized more productively in other areas. Time will tell...



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[counsellor]

To counsellor, no mea culpa is necessary. it's clear that you still know more about forfeiture than most. So does DT. Thats what I like about this site, so many replies contain an interesting mix of intelligence and blunt honesty. If only the general public would visit this site in mass, and learn the truth about whats goes on in Nassau County's "government."
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[Want to Know]

Do the counties make any money on the seizure of autos in DWI cases?

Wouldn't it be simpler and more efficient from a legal and economic standpoint to just levy much higher monetary fines on the convicted?

[hahahaha]

They stood in line to make a nice chunk of change if they were more organized, the vehicles were auctioned off in a timely manner, and if the vehicles weren't mugged before they were in the possession of the County.

And that's on top of if the County had dotted the i's and crossed the t's in the forfeiture law. You have no idea exactly how many vehicles they had sitting there. Ever been to a licensed auto auction? The real magilla. All those seized vehicles sitting there made the Mannheim licensed auto dealers auction look like a drop in the bucket.

[the facts]

The Short answer is Yes. In 2002 Nassau Forfeitures generated 1.1 million, and Suffolks forfeitures have generated $750,000
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[Query]

Are those civil automobile forfeitures only? How about drug and gambling cases? Your numbers would appear low if they include gambling and drug cases, particularly when busting up a gambling operation, and seizure of "the bank" could result in millions of dollars of assets in one bust alone.

Aren't forfeiture monies statutorily allocated to the District Attorney's Office and Police Deparment? Wasn't there a controversy in the mid 1990's about asset forfeiture in Suffolk between the legislature and the DA?
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[the facts]

Those numbers include only monies generated by the forfeiture of autos seized incident to DWI arrests. They should be much higher. Based upon the current levels of DWI arrests, a well run program in either Nassau or Suffolk, should generate average annual revenues of two million ($2,000,000) dollars for each county. Unfortunately this will not happen in either County. It will not happen in Suffolk because their law is defective and will be declared unconstitutional this year. Nor will it happen in Nassau because the people "in charge" have absolutely no idea how to handle the program.
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[Jus Me]

Does anyone know if Nassau is going to write a new forfeiture law?

[Mayor of South Park]

As soon as she graduates from Mr. Garrison's reading class.

[The Truth]

I have heard rumors that the County Attorneys Office has drafted a new forfieture which they intend to submit to the Legislature. Does anyone know if this is true or the current status of the possible new law?
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[Chaiken's benched]

Maybe Tepper's next

[Same Day, Dif rewite]

Well lets see now. The program was a bust under Gullota, who finally brought in that guy Campanelli. According to the Police Department, Campanelli made the program a winner, sold cars and pulled in over a cool million for the County. Then Suozzi dumped him because Campanelli refused to become "part of the team" (meaning give money to Suozzo & crew). Word from the Police Department is that since Suozzi got rid of Campanelli, they haven't seized a single car, and the program hasn't generated one penny. Instead, its now costing us money. The question now is whether or not Suozzi's cronies are going to try rewriting the law again? Who knows ? The fact is, it doesn't matter anyway because Lorna and crew are clueless.

[It was a Democrat]

It was a bust under Gulotta - FYI - Bonnie Chaiken ran the program when Gulotta was in office and guess what - she was and as a Democrat. She supported Dinapoli and was hired as TONH Attorney when Suozzi came in around 2001 and now the dems put her on the bench. It was Bonnie's program that was a bust because, as she loves to explain, she had no money budgeted to her to hire lawyers and she couldn't/wouldn't do the work herself.

[a slight correction]

It was a bust under Gulotta - FYI - Bonnie Chaiken ran the program when Gulotta was in office and guess what - she was and as a Democrat. She supported Dinapoli and was hired as TONH Attorney when Suozzi came in around 2001 and now the dems put her on the bench. It was Bonnie's program that was a bust because, as she loves to explain, she had no money budgeted to her to hire lawyers and she couldn't/wouldn't do the work herself.

Bonnie was a Republican who bailed on Gulotta, switched to the Democratic Party, and first became the Town Attorney of North Hempstead, and then was elected to a District Court Judgeship.

Word from the Police Department is that since Suozzi got rid of Campanelli, they haven't seized a single car, and the program hasn't generated one penny. Instead, its now costing us money.

Is this the same police dept that hates Suozzi, that spent a half a million dollars to run ads against him in the election saying that Nassau is NOT safe despite FBI statistics saying that it IS? Are you talking about THAT police dept? Gee, I'm sure THEY aren't biased, huh?

[biased maybe but....]

Word from the Police Department is that since Suozzi got rid of Campanelli, they haven't seized a single car, and the program hasn't generated one penny. Instead, its now costing us money.

Is this the same police dept that hates Suozzi, that spent a half a million dollars to run ads against him in the election saying that Nassau is NOT safe despite FBI statistics saying that it IS? Are you talking about THAT police dept? Gee, I'm sure THEY aren't biased, huh?

Goodman is awful. Look at how poorly her Affirmative Litigation Bureau handled all of those discrimination cases they were supposed to handle in front of the NYC Human Rights Commission. Was the Association of the Bar of the City of New York also "biased" when they suggested that her bureau be removed from prosecuting those cases? Face it. She stinks.

[Robert Barker]

Hey Guest, what does bias have to do with the fact that since the Suozzi/Goodman team took the program back from Campanelli, not one car has been seized, and the program has not generated ONE PENNY. I think Suozzi is both hero and villian. I don't think anyone can honestly deny that he has done alot of good for the County, but he has comprised the County's interests wherever they conflicted with his personal ambition and thirst for greater power. Campanelli was the worst case. Even the democrats acknowledge that Campanelli did his job, until Suozzi screwed him for not forking over donations. Now the program is dead again. I guess we have to accept the good with the bad.

[Bob Barker 2]

Thats my cousing robert. You remember him from Happy Gillmore!

this will go down in flames just like the seizure law they passed to impound taxis

:D :oops:

[last call]

Close bars at 1:00AM during the week and 2:00AM on weekends.

Hold bartenders and bar owners accountable for serving intoxicated persons or letting them leave an establishment crocked. Use plain clothes units for enforcement.

Force bars to install breath testers for patron's use.

No buybacks or free drinks. Use plain clothes units for enforcement.

Mandate all drinking establishments post a drink-to-weight ratio chart prominently for patron use.

Introduce a uniform cab fare by distance travelled.

Add mass transit to main routes at closing time. Having the buses stop at 8:00PM is stupid.

No one is serious about the issue because the liquor lobby is strong, most everyone likes a drink, and no one likes to admit that there, but for the grace of God, go I.



And you should keep going!!! :wink: where do we get in line for toilet paper, and food rations???? look, I dont like seeing people hurt, or killed, BUT COME ON, close bars at 1 am, no buy backs or free beer, drink to weight ratio???? :oops: get real, you are out of your mind, you need stronger jail time, and you should take lose your car, this is what helps, we also need to address the problem, yes, BUT NOT the way you say. :D