Bayport Drowning

[firefighter82]

Why is it that the man who drown in Bayport last week has not been found? Rumor has it that several volunteer fire departments have volunteered to conduct underwater searches in hopes of expediting the recovery. SCPD has made it clear that they do not want help from the fire service and if they try to search on their own, they will be removed from the area. What's up with that? Don't we all want to see the family get some closure? Wouldn't it be beneficial to recover the body sooner as apposed to later? It seems as though SCPD are not too eager to help this family, and they're getting paid. The fire service is willing to search for free on their own time. Some things just don't make sense.

[Icarus]

There was only one witness to the "drowning" Until the body is found the PD has to condider the possibility of foul play. What happens if the "volunteers" recover the body and it turns out he has a bullet in the head, or his skull was caved in? The "volunteers" don't have any training in evidence recognition, recovery or preservation. Important evidence may be overlooked, lost or compromised. That is why the PD doesn't want amateurs poking their noses in the investigation, however noble their intentions may be.

[firefighter82]

There was only one witness to the "drowning" Until the body is found the PD has to condider the possibility of foul play. What happens if the "volunteers" recover the body and it turns out he has a bullet in the head, or his skull was caved in? The "volunteers" don't have any training in evidence recognition, recovery or preservation. Important evidence may be overlooked, lost or compromised. That is why the PD doesn't want amateurs poking their noses in the investigation, however noble their intentions may be.

First, I would like to ask how you know the qualifications of all the volunteer firefighters in Suffolk? There are volunteer firefighters trained in evidence recovery. You make a point about not disturbing a possible crime scene, but it is easily discredited. It's actually very simple. The volunteer firefighters search for the body. When they find it, the place a marker float and call the PD divers. No evidence is lost or damaged by the search.
Second, if this was a serious concern for the PD wouldn't they want to protect the crime scene. My friend drove directly through that exact area today in his boat. What is he was fishing and hooked the body? Any citizen could go to the area in question right now and probably not see PD, but the FD is not permitted. Something isn't right about that.
Also, what about the first hour of the rescue. A search is considered a rescue for the first hour. It doesn't become a recovery until after that "golden hour." Why was it that PD stopped divers from entering the water prior to that 1 hour mark? Wouldn't it be beneficial to possibly save a life instead of possibly preserving evidence? I find it said that there are over eight other fire departments with dive teams that could have been on scene within that golden hour. PD had approx. 5 divers on scene. The "vollies" could have had 30. Wouldn't that have given the victim better odds of being rescued? I think the PD need to swallow their pride and admit that the "vollies" are capable of helping and begin to allow them to do so. They're only hurting John Q. Public.

There was only one witness to the "drowning" Until the body is found the PD has to condider the possibility of foul play. What happens if the "volunteers" recover the body and it turns out he has a bullet in the head, or his skull was caved in? The "volunteers" don't have any training in evidence recognition, recovery or preservation. Important evidence may be overlooked, lost or compromised. That is why the PD doesn't want amateurs poking their noses in the investigation, however noble their intentions may be.

First, I would like to ask how you know the qualifications of all the volunteer firefighters in Suffolk? There are volunteer firefighters trained in evidence recovery. You make a point about not disturbing a possible crime scene, but it is easily discredited. It's actually very simple. The volunteer firefighters search for the body. When they find it, the place a marker float and call the PD divers. No evidence is lost or damaged by the search.
Second, if this was a serious concern for the PD wouldn't they want to protect the crime scene. My friend drove directly through that exact area today in his boat. What is he was fishing and hooked the body? Any citizen could go to the area in question right now and probably not see PD, but the FD is not permitted. Something isn't right about that.
Also, what about the first hour of the rescue. A search is considered a rescue for the first hour. It doesn't become a recovery until after that "golden hour." Why was it that PD stopped divers from entering the water prior to that 1 hour mark? Wouldn't it be beneficial to possibly save a life instead of possibly preserving evidence? I find it said that there are over eight other fire departments with dive teams that could have been on scene within that golden hour. PD had approx. 5 divers on scene. The "vollies" could have had 30. Wouldn't that have given the victim better odds of being rescued? I think the PD need to swallow their pride and admit that the "vollies" are capable of helping and begin to allow them to do so. They're only hurting John Q. Public.

You are a dope you do more to bolster any reasons to exclude the jolly vollies that the pd has. Since you are incapable of thinking outside of the box I'll do it for you. Which of the following resources can grid search an area for a "live" victim during that initial golden hour, a combined air/waterborne search of SCPD aviation/marine bureau or 30 jolly vollies zipping around in zodiacs wearing drysuits? My money is on Aviation/Marine bureau. Stop the hystrionics that PD is hurting public safety because they didn't invite you to the tea party to play professional rescuer. Don't even go into mammalian diving reflex and the lowered O2 consumption of the human body in frigid waters. After searching the area via air/boat after the first one hour it became a recovery operation. I realize this is penis envy in that there wasn't the chance of flame which negated the prolific cry of the land pirates "dis iz a fire scene we are in charge". Go back to the multi-million dollar apparatus/equipment locker and continue to delude yourselves that "we could have done it better". Thank you for reminding me why I long for the day they eliminate the volunteer bucket fairies and replace that wasteful system for one in which all equipment is purchased on bid and their is a guaranteed PROFESSIONAL response 24/7 without the peril the public is in via the blue light parade. Go back to the FD bar and try and come up w/ a justification for wasteing taxpayers money on gold leaf on the trucks and buying custom specified one of a kind apparatus. IA/DA now in control after Martin sold out please bring back the FD thread so that we don't have to have the wannabe rubbermen wasting our time.

[Ret PO]

Amen. Let them go back to their racing trucks and keggers.

[firefighter82]

It would seem to me that maybe you are the one jealous about the equipment the vollies have. And maybe the fact that we do our job for free. I enjoyed your snide remarks and the way you dropped to meaningless insults as soon as someone disagrees with you. There's no reason to make this a name calling affair. Lets keep it civil please. First, I would like to make it clear that I never said the police should be excluded. The idea is that the police and the fire departments work together. Neither one is going away anytime soon so there is a great need to work together. While some firemen do have training in evidence recovery, the majority do not. FD divers are primarily trained in victim rescue. We don't want to recover evidence. We simly want to return a body to the family, as I'm sure everyone does. The Great South Bay is very large and the search area for this victim was also very large. FD marine and diver units working in conjunction with the PD helicopter, divers, and marine units would make everyone's job easier. That's what most FD's want, to work together to provide the public with the best services available. Granted not all are like that, but they should be.
The FD is such a huge resource, and SCPD doesn't use it as they could. Some people need to resolve their personal differences and allow the two organizations to work together.
On a final note, I would appreciate it if you keep the dirty comments off this thread. There is certainly room for disagreements and different opinions or thoughts, but the nasty comments do not help anything. Thank you.

Amen. Let them go back to their racing trucks and keggers.
Yeah, people like you are what makes half of Suffolk County want to abolish the County PD, you and your one time $100,000+ pay check.

Man, I cant wait till Levy abolishes the SCPD. Id rather wait an hour for a real cop then a SCPD money thief, even the Public Safety guys have more courtesy then an average SCPD officer.

[Icarus]

Amen. Let them go back to their racing trucks and keggers.
Yeah, people like you are what makes half of Suffolk County want to abolish the County PD, you and your one time $100,000+ pay check.

Man, I cant wait till Levy abolishes the SCPD. Id rather wait an hour for a real cop then a SCPD money thief, even the Public Safety guys have more courtesy then an average SCPD officer.

When are you nitwits going to wake up to the fact that you're NOT cops. I don't have any idea what you mean when you say some of you have training in evidence recovery, etc. You don't. Period. A court would never recognize your "training" and you would only compromise a possible criminal investigation. Stick to what you know. Starting fires, driving like fools with your silly blue lights and swilling beer. Oh yeah, and wishing you were one of us. By the way, my fire district tax is almost as much as my police tax and you do it for "free". Makes one wonder where all the money is going. 80 inch TV's, mahogany bars, $20,000 conference tables, gamerooms, gyms. Need I go on. You guys are nothing but a bunch of useless, jealous pissants.

[heres your courtesy right]

Amen. Let them go back to their racing trucks and keggers.
Yeah, people like you are what makes half of Suffolk County want to abolish the County PD, you and your one time $100,000+ pay check.

Man, I cant wait till Levy abolishes the SCPD. Id rather wait an hour for a real cop then a SCPD money thief, even the Public Safety guys have more courtesy then an average SCPD officer.
guarantee, scpd will be here long after you go. my grandson will be on the job, and your derelict alcoholic loser grandson will bitch and moan how much he makes, and how it aint fair because we dont show perps like him any courtesy.
If you dont want us coming to your house for all your domestics, and overdoses, dont call. No skin off my nose. Just make sure you pay your taxes or you'll be booted the f' off l.i. back to the mountain yer pappy impreganted your sister and fathered you on. :lol:

soooooooooo much jealousy of the scpd. wow. u wackos know its an open competitive test? maybe they will let u people out of the psych ward for a day to take it. ive never seen a bunch of people who wanted to be cops more than u bunch of freiks

[firefighter82]

First, I would like to say that I'm not jealous of SCPD. I think it's a great job to have on L.I., but it's not for me. I took the test, scored well, and when I got a letter to go further I declined it. I prefer my current job.
One thing I would like to know is how you know exactly what training every firefighter in Suffolk County has? I know for a fact that some are trained in evidence recovery. That's not a training standard for any FD, but some people have made the extra effort on their own. There aren't many, but there are a few.
The body was found yesterday morning in Browns River. I'm curious to see if the man had a knife in his back or a cruched skull as it was put in an earlier post. I'm guessing he has none of that and simply drowned, but I could be wrong.
It's funny to me that so many of you are reduced to name calling and meaningless insults as soon as someone challenges your opinion or says something you disagree with. Do you really think it make you look intelligent?
I'll agree totally that many districts have rediculous taxes, but mine is not one of them. The average FD tax in my district is something like $250. That's nothing compared to some districts. Don't make stereotypes about all FD's when there are differences.
None of that is the issue. The real issue is why don't SCPD and the FD's work together. I'm not blaming any one group, because I think there are problems at both ends. I would be eager to hear reasonable opinions regarding this matter, but feel free to respond with the usual insults. It only makes you look less inteligent and keeps the thread current so more people can see it.
This will be my last post on this topic since I don't think a reasonable discussion can occur here. So much for mature adults discussing current issues on L.I.

First, I would like to say that I'm not jealous of SCPD. I think it's a great job to have on L.I., but it's not for me. I took the test, scored well, and when I got a letter to go further I declined it. I prefer my current job.
One thing I would like to know is how you know exactly what training every firefighter in Suffolk County has? I know for a fact that some are trained in evidence recovery. That's not a training standard for any FD, but some people have made the extra effort on their own. There aren't many, but there are a few.
The body was found yesterday morning in Browns River. I'm curious to see if the man had a knife in his back or a cruched skull as it was put in an earlier post. I'm guessing he has none of that and simply drowned, but I could be wrong.
It's funny to me that so many of you are reduced to name calling and meaningless insults as soon as someone challenges your opinion or says something you disagree with. Do you really think it make you look intelligent?
I'll agree totally that many districts have rediculous taxes, but mine is not one of them. The average FD tax in my district is something like $250. That's nothing compared to some districts. Don't make stereotypes about all FD's when there are differences.
None of that is the issue. The real issue is why don't SCPD and the FD's work together. I'm not blaming any one group, because I think there are problems at both ends. I would be eager to hear reasonable opinions regarding this matter, but feel free to respond with the usual insults. It only makes you look less inteligent and keeps the thread current so more people can see it.
This will be my last post on this topic since I don't think a reasonable discussion can occur here. So much for mature adults discussing current issues on L.I.
Sadly we have obnoxious immature posters like icarus who just want to put others down. You are assuming hes actually a Scpd and not just a teenager acting like one

First, I would like to say that I'm not jealous of SCPD. I think it's a great job to have on L.I., but it's not for me. I took the test, scored well, and when I got a letter to go further I declined it. I prefer my current job.
One thing I would like to know is how you know exactly what training every firefighter in Suffolk County has? I know for a fact that some are trained in evidence recovery. That's not a training standard for any FD, but some people have made the extra effort on their own. There aren't many, but there are a few.
The body was found yesterday morning in Browns River. I'm curious to see if the man had a knife in his back or a cruched skull as it was put in an earlier post. I'm guessing he has none of that and simply drowned, but I could be wrong.
It's funny to me that so many of you are reduced to name calling and meaningless insults as soon as someone challenges your opinion or says something you disagree with. Do you really think it make you look intelligent?
I'll agree totally that many districts have rediculous taxes, but mine is not one of them. The average FD tax in my district is something like $250. That's nothing compared to some districts. Don't make stereotypes about all FD's when there are differences.
None of that is the issue. The real issue is why don't SCPD and the FD's work together. I'm not blaming any one group, because I think there are problems at both ends. I would be eager to hear reasonable opinions regarding this matter, but feel free to respond with the usual insults. It only makes you look less inteligent and keeps the thread current so more people can see it.
This will be my last post on this topic since I don't think a reasonable discussion can occur here. So much for mature adults discussing current issues on L.I.
you are missing the point. Its a death investigation. It is almost a guarantee that there was no foul play, but in the case there is, we owe it to the victim and family to follow our procedures. Its not a personal thing, its a policy that we are ordered to follow by whatever supervisor is on scene. Once the Detectives show it is their determination whether to continue as a crime scene/ death invest. or as a accident. No detective I know is going to call off a investigation, until all the facts/evidence is gathered.
Its not that we dont want to work with you, its our procedure for the integrity of the investigation.

[the wonderer]

In 96 after TWA 800 went down why was it that only US Navy and Police Dept. divers were the only ones recovering the bodies? (after the initial free for all in the first couple of hours) I guess it was because it was a potential CRIME SCENE. FD makes a grab and attempts rescues, PD recovers evidence and investigates potential crimes. Period end. After the first hour of the Bayport incident given the water temperatures it became a recovery/crime scene operation. Please don't waste our time with the "my buddy drove his boat through there this past weekend so it couldn't have been a crime scene" crap. You'd be the same bitching, whining pain in the ass if the area was excluded from your ability to go out fishing.

[Icarus]

[
Sadly we have obnoxious immature posters like icarus who just want to put others down. You are assuming hes actually a Scpd and not just a teenager acting like one[/quote]

Just responding in kind to the idiots who choose to denigrate us. Do you know what that word means? They don't understand anything else. Until proven otherwise it is a death investigation. That means you jolly vollies have to stay the heck away. Don't even start with your training in evidence recovery. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. All you would do is foul up any possible case. More than likely there was no foul play. Still the possibility has to be considered. So I say again, stick to what you do. Dump water on the fire until it's out, then get out of our way. I suppose you guys are a necessary evil but it's open to debate whether a bucket brigade would be more cost effective.

[kchh]

As a vollie I responded to the drowning call at Bayport , and we as rescue personnel had no buisiness being their except to assist the cops. Let the cops do that type of work, thats what they get paid the big bucks for. We spend a small fortune on water rescue equipment that the cops already have!! If the cops need to feed thier ego, Let them!!!

As a vollie I responded to the drowning call at Bayport , and we as rescue personnel had no buisiness being their except to assist the cops. Let the cops do that type of work, thats what they get paid the big bucks for. We spend a small fortune on water rescue equipment that the cops already have!! If the cops need to feed thier ego, Let them!!!
It aint ego son its procedure.

[Ret Vollie]

Amen. Let them go back to their racing trucks and keggers.
Yeah, people like you are what makes half of Suffolk County want to abolish the County PD, you and your one time $100,000+ pay check.

Man, I cant wait till Levy abolishes the SCPD. Id rather wait an hour for a real cop then a SCPD money thief, even the Public Safety guys have more courtesy then an average SCPD officer.

I knew this issue of $ would come up. I left one of the FD's two years ago, because I had a job opportunity to make over $100,000 (in the private sector). I had a choice to make...either hang out at the FD gossiping and drinking beer (some of you go there a few times a day and what good are you to John Q Public when youre drinking and driving a 50,000 LB truck and trying to work a fire?) or get a life and show a little ambition for my family. I'm sick of hearing how the vollies do their jobs for free. You knew what you were in for when you signed on.

Second of all I could never figure out why it is that those trucks are driven like they were stolen to a scene even after the PD is on scene and gives a disregard. Before someone gets killed for a burner puff back or an extinguished oven fire...DISREGARD MEANS DISREGARD!!! We don't need 40 yahoo vollies in their cars with their blue lights going responding to these scenes like maniacs...or is it all about getting a STAT for responding and the hell with the safety of "John Q Public", because when someone gets killed I hope they own the Fire District.

Amen. Let them go back to their racing trucks and keggers.
Yeah, people like you are what makes half of Suffolk County want to abolish the County PD, you and your one time $100,000+ pay check.

Man, I cant wait till Levy abolishes the SCPD. Id rather wait an hour for a real cop then a SCPD money thief, even the Public Safety guys have more courtesy then an average SCPD officer.

I knew this issue of $ would come up. I left one of the FD's two years ago, because I had a job opportunity to make over $100,000 (in the private sector). I had a choice to make...either hang out at the FD gossiping and drinking beer (some of you go there a few times a day and what good are you to John Q Public when youre drinking and driving a 50,000 LB truck and trying to work a fire?) or get a life and show a little ambition for my family. I'm sick of hearing how the vollies do their jobs for free. You knew what you were in for when you signed on.

Second of all I could never figure out why it is that those trucks are driven like they were stolen to a scene even after the PD is on scene and gives a disregard. Before someone gets killed for a burner puff back or an extinguished oven fire...DISREGARD MEANS DISREGARD!!! We don't need 40 yahoo vollies in their cars with their blue lights going responding to these scenes like maniacs...or is it all about getting a STAT for responding and the hell with the safety of "John Q Public", because when someone gets killed I hope they own the Fire District.

Amen brother. I purchase a new house and was doing a little painting before I moved in. I ignorantly taped over my smoke detector which was connected to my central station alarm monitoring. This activated the alarm annunciator panel to which I input the all clear code and figured that was the end of it. About 20 minutes later the local sector arrived. I advised him of my mistake and told him he could give FD a disregard as I could hear the multiple sirens coming from a distance. He advised via the PD radio to have FD disregard (I know the FD dispatcher listens to the Police scanner I also know it takes a while for the PD dispatcher to call county FRES who in turn calls the local FD dispatcher who then calls the local FD chief and advises of the disregard thats another issue in and of it's self in terms of too many layers in the system) I commented to the PO that I hoped the bucket fairies didn't get into a wreck after a disregard had been given because they would rename the FD in the honor of the now deceased citizen that they waffled. The PO advised that they HAD to respond even when given a disregard for some kind of a credit or stat with the homeowners insurance companies. Apparently lower stats yield lower reimbursement from the homeowners policies in their district (go read your homeowners policy it lists the name of your FD, your FD gets something like 1% of the amount you pay for your homeowners policy plus they have a taxing district to pay for the equipment). Where does the money go? If there are taxing districts to pay for the unique one of a kind gold leaf embossed never bought on bid (except N.Patchogue) equipment, salaries buildings, LOSAP etc. where does the money go that is collected from every homeowners insurance policy. Hmmmm does it go to fund junkets for the Fire Commissioners/Chiefs and their wives to attend every fire related convention in the country? Does the money go to fund "district vehicles" so that the Commissioners can commute to the city with? Does the money go for the overstuffed chairs, marble table tops, big screen tvs and the kegs of beer behind the bar which are a staple of nearly every FD on LI? Does it go to fund the racing team? Does it go to fund the rah rah esprit de corps look at me I'm a fireman jackets (no I don't mean turnout coats, those have a legitimate purpose)? Why do the FDs continue to put the citizens they are sworn to protect in peril after they are given a disregard. I guess it's because their all mighty dollar for their toys and egos is more important than our safety. Lastly, before someone goes off on the tangent of why don't I join to find out what it's all about, too late, been there done that have the 20 year plaque to prove it. Rubbermen wannabes living in glass houses should learn not to throw stones.

the way things are going on Long island, it seems like everyone can afford a nice 350,000 house these days maybe its time to switch over to a paid fire department and be gone with all of these glory hounds and buffs.

the way things are going on Long island, it seems like everyone can afford a nice 350,000 house these days maybe its time to switch over to a paid fire department and be gone with all of these glory hounds and buffs.Please the taxpayers would whine themselves to death. Instead of ''whats taking so long for the ambulance, my doctor appt is at 200 pm sharp, it will be''I pay your salary what do you mean you're not a taxi?