Reasons to ELIMINATE

Its about time

so r u talking about the FDNY
because if u are your dead wrong

so r u talking about the FDNY
because if u are your dead wrong

CAN YOU READ DOPE????
DOES IT MENTION FDNY ANYWHERE IN THE POST???????
I'M TALKING ABOUT ALL UNPAID UNPROFESSIONALS!

sounds like someone is jealous of those who get paid to do ems... besides ...most people who get paid to do ems also vollie elsewhere... so whom are you refering to?

EMS ?
WoW.
You must be the SHARPEST tool in the shed.

DOES IT MENTION EMS IT THE POST ?

ASS.

will then your an asshole because these guys have to work too other jobs because just to pay there bills

would you run up into a burning house or building while eveyone else is runing out

it does not matter ir you are payed or volunteer you are a firefighter thats all that matters they both save lives

Besides WHO gives a rats ASS about EMS ????

That has got to be the BIGGEST tax payer rip off EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

will then your an asshole because these guys have to work too other jobs because just to pay there bills

would you run up into a burning house or building while eveyone else is runing out

it does not matter ir you are payed or volunteer you are a firefighter thats all that matters they both save lives

WOW

Learn to spell much??????
Not to mention YOUR HORRIBLE use of grammar.

ok asshole whats your point

i guess this guy is not a firefighter

[IHatePaidFiremen]

ok asshole whats your point

I suggest reading COMPREHENSION too!

so your going at answer my question

this guy can not be a firefighter

i like to see this guy run into a burning building

there is no point this guy just hates firefighters
well firefighters that get paid

"]Alas a paid fire service here on the Island will never be more than a dream. Why? Because government never, ever, does the right thing. Instead of confronting the serious failure that is the volunteer system, our chosen leaders instead bury their heads in the sand. One poster here suggests that we will only see a push for paid or part paid departments after some politicians family member lies waiting 45 minutes for an ambulance. Maybe. But I don't even think that will get it going. The problem is that we are saddled with all these little fiefdoms and, with them, their Napoleanic leaders. They are too enamored of their status within their organizations to publicly admit that which they absolutely know in their hearts: The system sucks. The answer, of course, is consolidation of departments coupled with either town or county-wide paid members. This should be for both Fire and EMS. Everywhere else in the country Fire and EMS are grouped together to give the taxpayer the best public safety value for their tax dollar. Splitting them only leads to increased costs due to the separate lines of management and leadership that each branch would demand. This is just not neccessary. The world of public safety is ever changing. It is absolutely remarkable that the system for providing it is so stubbornly resistant to change. It seems that everyone agrees that something has to be done about the EMS aspect, but everyone seems to turn a blind eye to the Fire side of the public safety equation. Just the other day there was a picture in Newsday of a garage fire somewhere which I felt was a perfect depiction of the state of the fire service here on the Island. There was a ripping fire in an attached garage. There on the driveway apron was one FF suiting up to initiate an attack. The story went on to say, I think, maybe three departments were called in for manpower. Thats just wrong. You should not need to summon two or three neighboring departments in order to muster enough manpower to confront a house fire. If your department can't put a staffed engine and ladder at scene within 10 minutes of a call than your department is not meeting its obligation to its taxpayers. Of course, there will be those who respond to this post with the usual chicken little BS about how we can't afford a paid service here on the Island. To them I say take a look at what is being spent collectively for fire and EMS protection island-wide. I think you'll find that the money is there. As to those who think the salaries would go the way of the PD's, I can tell you first hand that you are dead wrong. As an 11 year Lt. here in LB, my base is far eclipsed by a fifth year patrolman in our PD. This is because the PD are not threatened by the auxillaries like the paid FF's are by the volunteers. There's no reason to think this wouldn't be the case everywhere else that combination departments set up. So, a combination system invariably exerts a downward influence on the wages of those who comprise it's paid component. There is money for combination departments here on the Island. More importantly, there is a glaring need for them. The only thing standing in the way is the volunteer departments. As long as we continue to elect invertabrates into public office nothing will change. It is incumbent upon those within the volunteer fire service to look themselves in the mirror and admit failure. Not for a lack of good intentions mind you, but good intentions don't get the job done. The fire service needs to wake up to reality and urge our politicians to earnestly pursue the institution of combination departments. This is the only way we can meet the needs of the public who rely on us. How 'bout it fellas?

[IHatePaidFiremen]

there is no point this guy just hates firefighters
well firefighters that get dont get paid

WOW someone with half a brain.

i hate you, im jealous

[yourcall. . .]

Its about time the [quote=lbltjag]Alas a paid fire service here on the Island will never be more than a dream. Why? Because government never, ever, does the right thing. Instead of confronting the serious failure that is the volunteer system, our chosen leaders instead bury their heads in the sand. One poster here suggests that we will only see a push for paid or part paid departments after some politicians family member lies waiting 45 minutes for an ambulance. Maybe. But I don't even think that will get it going. The problem is that we are saddled with all these little fiefdoms and, with them, their Napoleanic leaders. They are too enamored of their status within their organizations to publicly admit that which they absolutely know in their hearts: The system sucks. The answer, of course, is consolidation of departments coupled with either town or county-wide paid members. This should be for both Fire and EMS. Everywhere else in the country Fire and EMS are grouped together to give the taxpayer the best public safety value for their tax dollar. Splitting them only leads to increased costs due to the separate lines of management and leadership that each branch would demand. This is just not neccessary. The world of public safety is ever changing. It is absolutely remarkable that the system for providing it is so stubbornly resistant to change. It seems that everyone agrees that something has to be done about the EMS aspect, but everyone seems to turn a blind eye to the Fire side of the public safety equation. Just the other day there was a picture in Newsday of a garage fire somewhere which I felt was a perfect depiction of the state of the fire service here on the Island. There was a ripping fire in an attached garage. There on the driveway apron was one FF suiting up to initiate an attack. The story went on to say, I think, maybe three departments were called in for manpower. Thats just wrong. You should not need to summon two or three neighboring departments in order to muster enough manpower to confront a house fire. If your department can't put a staffed engine and ladder at scene within 10 minutes of a call than your department is not meeting its obligation to its taxpayers. Of course, there will be those who respond to this post with the usual chicken little BS about how we can't afford a paid service here on the Island. To them I say take a look at what is being spent collectively for fire and EMS protection island-wide. I think you'll find that the money is there. As to those who think the salaries would go the way of the PD's, I can tell you first hand that you are dead wrong. As an 11 year Lt. here in LB, my base is far eclipsed by a fifth year patrolman in our PD. This is because the PD are not threatened by the auxillaries like the paid FF's are by the volunteers. There's no reason to think this wouldn't be the case everywhere else that combination departments set up. So, a combination system invariably exerts a downward influence on the wages of those who comprise it's paid component. There is money for combination departments here on the Island. More importantly, there is a glaring need for them. The only thing standing in the way is the volunteer departments. As long as we continue to elect invertabrates into public office nothing will change. It is incumbent upon those within the volunteer fire service to look themselves in the mirror and admit failure. Not for a lack of good intentions mind you, but good intentions don't get the job done. The fire service needs to wake up to reality and urge our politicians to earnestly pursue the institution of combination departments. This is the only way we can meet the needs of the public who rely on us. How 'bout it fellas?

[IHateUnPaidFiremen]

Ooooooooo
I feel so privaledged!
The BIGGEST drain on the taxpayer, LBLTJAGOFF posted here.


oooooo i have a warm fuzzy feeling in my tummy. :lol:

[extremefighting]

all that is required is supplying alcohol, chairs, and stairs for a vollie firehouse version of extreme fighting, and we will have a self elimination match

this has to be broadcasted nationally, what an event

when can we start?

[guest2]

I would just like to say that you my friend are a shmuck because you are terrorizing a group on account of a few people that made mistakes. I admit that it may be that they are even genuine assholes being that there is at least one in every bunch, but it is not fair to extrapolate that to the entire group. Furthermore its not as if there is no drunks or drug adicts in any other profession. And I would like to see your plan enacted, and all departments turned to volunteer and I hope your house then is the first to go up in flames because then you will see your house burn to the ground because those guys were at work not at a station house ready to protect your life and property. Also for your information, it is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain volunteer firehouses because more people are like you and less are like those heroes driving volunteer numbers way down. Also the volunteer houses cost money to operate which taxpayers such as yourself are often unwilling to give. I guess you would like them to fund the houses also. As far as the EMS comments I guess you all would rather sacrifice primary care and drive your dying grandmother to the hospital? Sometimes it is much more effective to think and then speak. Have a nice day.

i agree 100%

I would just like to say that you my friend are a shmuck because you are terrorizing a group on account of a few people that made mistakes. I admit that it may be that they are even genuine assholes being that there is at least one in every bunch, but it is not fair to extrapolate that to the entire group. Furthermore its not as if there is no drunks or drug adicts in any other profession. And I would like to see your plan enacted, and all departments turned to volunteer and I hope your house then is the first to go up in flames because then you will see your house burn to the ground because those guys were at work not at a station house ready to protect your life and property. Also for your information, it is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain volunteer firehouses because more people are like you and less are like those heroes driving volunteer numbers way down. Also the volunteer houses cost money to operate which taxpayers such as yourself are often unwilling to give. I guess you would like them to fund the houses also. As far as the EMS comments I guess you all would rather sacrifice primary care and drive your dying grandmother to the hospital? Sometimes it is much more effective to think and then speak. Have a nice day.


i'm the "SCHMUCK"?
Anyone get it yet????????????????????

[igotit]

i got it

we all actually respect volunteer and paid

were just tired of those brain washed by the iaff drible with the anti volunteer sentiment

volunteer system works when their is enough manpower per 1720

combo system works as long as volunteer and paid work together

full paid works per 1710 with proper maining

nothing works when brothers attach each other as the constraints are political and fiscal, rarely between firefighters with a few exceptions

current iaff doctrine is to go combo, and actively behind the seens undermine volunteerism within the union and without

i would say your positions actually are very common from the iaff president on to must combo local leaders

fully paid organizations like fdny, have not been as anti volunteer as combo locals

very few really have anything against either

its time to drop the reterick and move on

Finally.

lets stop bashing paid firefighters
paid only are arefirefighters
they save lives, and risk there lives for us
there is always going to be a few in the group thats going to make the group look bad. lets look past that, and look at the things that firefighters do for us

lets support paid and firefighters as for the EMS

[PROUD FDNY]

Sounds to me that the person who started this post is a fat disgruntled person who was probably rejected by a paid service so he has no other recourse than to bash people who have made it. Train harder next time you fat bastard.

[SHAMED VOLUNTEER3]

i am jealous of paid fd

[SHAMED VOLUNTEER 4]

[Hey its just plain and simple volloes want to protect the party system they have now. Where else would the get the benefits of the big screen TVs and bars funded at taxpayer expense

[IHatePaidFiremen]

"Hey its just plain and simple volloes want to protect the party system they have now. Where else would the get the benefits of the big screen TVs and bars funded at taxpayer expense"

not all vollie firefighters have drinks and drugs in there lockers
how would you know this?
do you have proof of this ?
i like to see you run into a burning building ASSHOLE

STOP BASHING PAID FIREFIGHTERS

[SHAMED Volunteer 4]

"Hey its just plain and simple volloes want to protect the party system they have now. Where else would the get the benefits of the big screen TVs and bars funded at taxpayer expense"

gee lets see now........
While they may not have big screens and a bar i'm sure i could go into ANY "paid" firehouse and find a T.V., booze in a locker and probably drugs too.
And yet the taxpayers may not pay for these items these so called "PAID" professionals ARE getting paid by the taxpayers.....

So i must ask what is YOUR point???????

Oh and p.s. if your going to talk shit LEARN TO SPELL ok
Its Vollies NOT volloes.

Exactly lets see the evidence of booze and drugs in the firefighters lockers.

These vollies use our tax dollars and our donations to buy these luxuries. We are not supporting a frat party for them. Any TVs that paid Firefighters have come out of their own pocket. The vollies just want to have taxpayer supported fun and when necessary go and put out a car fire at best. These guys are a drain on our tax base.

[IHateUnPaidFiremen]

not all firefighters have drinks and drugs in there lockers
how would you know this?
do you have proof of this ?
i like to see you run into a burning building ASSHOLE

STOP BASHING PAID FIREFIGHTERS

1. Yes. There are PLENTY of reports of such incidents reported by MANY news outlets about vollies.
2. What makes you know i'm not a firefighter.

IM A VOLLIE ASSHOLE.

[IHatevollieFiremen]

"These vollies use our tax dollars and our donations to buy these luxuries. We are not supporting a frat party for them. Any TVs that paid Firefighters have come out of their own pocket. The vollies just want to have taxpayer supported fun and when necessary go and put out a car fire at best. These guys are a drain on our tax base."

hey ihateunpaidfireman

the reason i think your not a fireman is because fireman don't bash other fireman. at least in my fire dept they don't

fireman are fireman there like brothers they don;t bash each other

so if you are a firefighter paid or not i am guess you are a volunteer firefighter MY HAT GOES OF TO YOU

but you should see paid fireman as freinds and family they do the same thing you do there are guys in the volunteer fire depts that drink and do stupid stuff to

but i think HATE is a very strong word to be useing

[IHatevollieFiremen]

hey ihatepaidfireman

the reason i think your not a fireman is because fireman don't bash other fireman. at least in my fire dept they don't

fireman are fireman there like brothers they don;t bash each other

so if you are a firefighter paid or not i am guess you are a volunteer firefighter MY HAT GOES OF TO YOU

but you should see paid fireman as freinds and family they do the same thing you do there are guys in the volunteer fire depts that drink and do stupid stuff to

but i think HATE is a very strong word to be useing

YOU ARE 110% CORRECT!!!!!!!
AND I AGREE 110%
BUT........
I am jealous

hey ihatepaidfireman

i agree with you i am a volunteer firefighter two

but i have lots of friends in the FDNY and they never talk about volunteers like that

i look at paid and volunteers firefighters the same way
they do the same thing

just one more question. i do you know that the people that were bashing the volunteer fire depts are paid fireman?

They claim to be.
Lets see, the IAFF is DEFINATLEY made up of REAL FF's.
Long Beach Lt Jag Is a REAL paid FF.(well on paper anyway)
OK?

[ashamed vollie here]

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:20 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

not all firefighters have drinks and drugs in there lockers
how would you know this?
do you have proof of this ?
i like to see you run into a burning building ASSHOLE

STOP BASHING FIREFIGHTERS


IHatePaidFiremen Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:05 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Hey its just plain and simple volloes want to protect the party system they have now. Where else would the get the benefits of the big screen TVs and bars funded at taxpayer expense"




Okay,
Let me put this in perspective.

Do you have proof of this: No but I see the same thing being written about the so called beer and booze in the vollie house by "paid" firemen.

[IHatevollies]

8)
vollies suck

[shamed vollie here]

:wink:
i suck

:cry:
we know

[shamed vollie here]

[quote="IHateUnPaidFiremen"]"These vollies use our tax dollars and our donations to buy these luxuries. We are not supporting a frat party for them. Any TVs that paid Firefighters have come out of their own pocket. The vollies just want to have taxpayer supported fun and when necessary go and put out a car fire at best. These guys are a drain on our tax base."

[IHatevollies]

:roll:
u suck

:lol:

" :arrow:

hey ihateunpaidfireman

so what your saying that the FDNY should be a volunteer fire dept

i don't see that happening

[iaffposition]

vollies suck

iaffposition

See

[adssd]

0dsd

[fired_from_PD_join_FD]

:lol:

[unPaid UNprofessionals]

vollies suck

[lbltjag]

Yeah, like laying on the floor in Cardiac Arrest for forty five minutes or standing outside and watching your small smoldering mattress fire take off and consume your entire house while waiting for the garbage man, the barber, the landscaper and the stockbroker to be able to put down what they're doing so they can come and help you. Who wants a two to three minute response time for their call for help anyway?

[More opportunity]

Paid

Less fireman, less trucks, less houses, less time waiting for a response - and- less cost. Sometimes less is more. This is why there is such resistance among the volunteers. A paid service would drastically reduce the number of FF's. The massive "phantom force" we have now could have its workload handled by a paid force that is 1/3 the size of the fire service as it exists presently. Imagine unloading the debt service associated with the equipment utilized by the other 2/3 of the fire service. Imagine the tax boost of all of the various department properties that would be returned to the tax rolls. The crazy-quilt system that we have today is ridiculous. Too many departments, too many rigs, too many houses - and - too many ghosts on the department rosters. A streamlined, efficient, organized and accountable paid service would just do the job better. Heck, it might even save a few bucks.

[?]

Just moved to long beach from Far Rockaway. I thought Long Beach and all fire departments in Nassau are paid? Aren't the real firefighters paid and the volunteer an auxilary force like the auxiliary police in queens?

Just moved to long beach from Far Rockaway. I thought Long Beach and all fire departments in Nassau are paid? Aren't the real firefighters paid and the volunteer an auxilary force like the auxiliary police in queens?

Don't kid yourself with these over bloated back patting Vollies on here...While they spew that they "do it for nothing and for the good of the community and give up there free time" the lying con artists that they are in fact getting benefits...including a pension plan...They take the words "I am a volunteer" and snake oil the community with it because they have a good shell game going on for many years. There isn't a single Vollie department since the beginning of time that did not or does not have some form of criminal act, theft, embezzlement or insurance fraud connected to it under the guise of "Volunteer" work. And that's on top of the deviant sexual acts with or without the adultery committed by its members, including engaging in sexual acts with a minor on firehouse property and out in public. And they have the nerve to attack paid firefighters on these issues in many posts on here, especially New York City paid firefighters. These Vollies that have enjoyed and abused the taxpapers monies for their own personal gain have a lot to lose if the system goes paid. And one thing is for sure, they will never get the job if they apply for it for many good reasons. They can not cut the mustard to those who are professionals and what is required to do the job for the good of the taxpayers. Simply put, they will lose their own private jungle gyms.

[Guest FF]

For the love of God, give it a rest you ass. You speak from a point of vollies suck

[lbltjag]

Pure and simple: paid, or part paid departments are the solution. It is not realistic to think that the volunteer fire service here on the Island will ever be replaced by an entirely paid department. This is so for two reasons: lack of balls among our elected leaders and the fact that you are never, ever going to be able to pry the playthings from the hands of those currently in possession of them. Not without a fight anyway. I suppose Eminent Domain could be employed to try to take over these properties and equipment but it would be a massive undertaking.

Those departments that do EMS are, with few exceptions, all coming to the realization that you need at least a part paid response in order to adequately provide the protection that they exist to provide. The fire side is a lot more stubborn. Ask any member of a fire department how they're doing with their response for fires and they will give you a glowing report. According to them, all is well with the fire side of the fire service. There is always going to be the issue of how long it takes for members to get to their firehouses and then respond to the scene. A Chiefs 21 time should not be the point by which response times are gauged. The arrival of adequately staffed apparatus at scene should be. Additionally, the fact is that most departments are calling in Mutual Aid in order to be able to put enough bodies at the scene of a routine housefire. While some will tout this as an example of the success of the Mutual Aid system, the fact remains that it takes a good, long time for members of neighboring departments to get where they're going. It takes still longer for other departments to come and fill in for those who are responding who are actually put into operation once on scene.

Combination departments with cross-trained FF/Medics are the way to go. That's the way we do it in Long Beach. That's the way it should be everywhere. In both Fire and EMS, time is everything. The most affordable way of acheiving acceptable times is through the use of a combination fo both paid and volunteer personnel.

Just as most politicians lack the balls to take on the volunteers, I don't think I'll ever see the day when one publicly stands up and advocates for the elimination of a paid department in those communities that are fortunate enough to have one. Would you?

8)vollies suck

Very interesting reading from all points of view.

[lbltjag]

We are getting way off point here folks. This thread was started on the the subject of reasons to get rid of paid departments. There is, of course, no good reason to get rid of paid departments. On the other hand, there are reasons to do away with, or at least modify, volunteer departments.

The originator of this thread seizes upon the publicized misconduct of a bunch of paid FF's as his/her justification for doing away with the paid departments. This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. One thing both the volunteer and paid ranks have in commom is that they are comprised predominantly of men. Any large group of men is going to have in its midst a good number of knuckleheads. The difference is that when a paid FF phucks up, it is reported as "FF DWI!" or "FF in gangbang in firehouse!". When a volunteer phucks up it is not going to garner the attention that it would if it involved a paid firemen. Why? Because in the media's eyes, you are not FF's. The only way it gets any press is when it occurs in direct connection with your department or its activities. Otherwise, when a furniture deliveryman, who is also a volunteer, gets pulled over for DWI it just doesn't hit the radar screen. Nor should it. If a volunteer gets locked up for whatever they are not going to list their occupation as "FF". Furthermore, if they're smart, they wont even mention their affiliation with an FD so as not to have that agency contacted and made aware of the members legal entanglements.

So you can certainly see why there is a greater incidence of negative stories in the media involving paid FF's versus volunteers. I'm sure that there are many equally egregious incidents that occur daily involving members of the volunteer side of the fire service, they just go unreported. The only time the media will identify an offender as a volunteer is when it involves arson.

There really are no good reasons to do away with paid departments. Whether a community is served by paid or volunteer, as long as men are involved there will be incidents such as those described in prior posts.

Now, I could go into the reasons for eliminating volunteer departments, but that is not the point of this thread. I think there are sufficient postings on that issue, both for and against, that it is not necessary to repeat them here. My beliefs are well known anyway.

[Guest 1]

Very interesting reading from all points of view.
Agreed mostly that vollies suck

[therealreason]

The Fort Lauderdale firefighter-paramedic accused of abducting his neighbor's cat pleaded not guilty to misdemeanor theft and animal-cruelty charges through his attorney this morning.

A judge in the North Regional Courthouse in Deerfield Beach ruled that the case will now go to a jury trial.

The jet-black cat, named Mr. Kibbles, was abducted from his home in the Victoria Isles town-house complex in Coconut Creek, driven for some 15 miles west on Lox Road out to the Everglades, unceremoniously dumped and left to fend for himself.

Not particularly fond of his new surroundings, Mr. Kibbles headed back east. It took him nearly two weeks, but he finally found his way home, his owners said.

He showed up at his owners' doorstep Feb. 18.

Police say Mr. Kibbles' neighbor, Christopher Cortes, 32, admitted to driving the cat to the Everglades after the cat defecated on Cortes' new silver Chevy Silverado pickup.

Cortes' lawyer, James S. Benjamin, of Fort Lauderdale, pleaded not guilty on behalf of Cortes and his fiancee, Iris Zukerman, 31, who also faces misdemeanor theft and animal cruelty charges. Neither Cortes nor Zukerman was in court today.

Benjamin said Cortes had to work today.

:wink:
vollies suck

[meow]

you abducted my cat! meow! she's now back! get ready to clean your car!

the cat probably provoked him

[guest. . .]

Alas a paid fire service here on the Island will never be more than a dream. Why? Because government never, ever, does the right thing. Instead of confronting the serious failure that is the volunteer system, our chosen leaders instead bury their heads in the sand. One poster here suggests that we will only see a push for paid or part paid departments after some politicians family member lies waiting 45 minutes for an ambulance. Maybe. But I don't even think that will get it going. The problem is that we are saddled with all these little fiefdoms and, with them, their Napoleanic leaders. They are too enamored of their status within their organizations to publicly admit that which they absolutely know in their hearts: The system sucks. The answer, of course, is consolidation of departments coupled with either town or county-wide paid members. This should be for both Fire and EMS. Everywhere else in the country Fire and EMS are grouped together to give the taxpayer the best public safety value for their tax dollar. Splitting them only leads to increased costs due to the separate lines of management and leadership that each branch would demand. This is just not neccessary. The world of public safety is ever changing. It is absolutely remarkable that the system for providing it is so stubbornly resistant to change. It seems that everyone agrees that something has to be done about the EMS aspect, but everyone seems to turn a blind eye to the Fire side of the public safety equation. Just the other day there was a picture in Newsday of a garage fire somewhere which I felt was a perfect depiction of the state of the fire service here on the Island. There was a ripping fire in an attached garage. There on the driveway apron was one FF suiting up to initiate an attack. The story went on to say, I think, maybe three departments were called in for manpower. Thats just wrong. You should not need to summon two or three neighboring departments in order to muster enough manpower to confront a house fire. If your department can't put a staffed engine and ladder at scene within 10 minutes of a call than your department is not meeting its obligation to its taxpayers. Of course, there will be those who respond to this post with the usual chicken little BS about how we can't afford a paid service here on the Island. To them I say take a look at what is being spent collectively for fire and EMS protection island-wide. I think you'll find that the money is there. As to those who think the salaries would go the way of the PD's, I can tell you first hand that you are dead wrong. As an 11 year Lt. here in LB, my base is far eclipsed by a fifth year patrolman in our PD. This is because the PD are not threatened by the auxillaries like the paid FF's are by the volunteers. There's no reason to think this wouldn't be the case everywhere else that combination departments set up. So, a combination system invariably exerts a downward influence on the wages of those who comprise it's paid component. There is money for combination departments here on the Island. More importantly, there is a glaring need for them. The only thing standing in the way is the volunteer departments. As long as we continue to elect invertabrates into public office nothing will change. It is incumbent upon those within the volunteer fire service to look themselves in the mirror and admit failure. Not for a lack of good intentions mind you, but good intentions don't get the job done. The fire service needs to wake up to reality and urge our politicians to earnestly pursue the institution of combination departments. This is the only way we can meet the needs of the public who rely on us. How 'bout it fellas?

:(

[nonethesame]

:oops:

:twisted:

[iamadouchebagvollie]

:roll:
we suck

[paid_hiring_pratices]

just proves that hiring and drug testing practices for paid departments is lagging the long island departments

who was that thatterryville is trash said a going paid was the answer to anything?

some lt by the city of long beaches?

[get a lifeeeeeee]

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :roll:

[guesss]

http://fireemsli.proboards26.com/

much better

[. . .]

this stuff about vollie ff's is bogus and untrue. . .

oh, got to run, my nose is bleeding. . .

hey guys what happen to the brohter hood we all saw on SEPT 11


now it seems we all hate each other
:cry: :?

[guest_quoted]

vollies sux

[Registered Guest Quote]

[quote="Anonymous"]Its about time the VOLUNTEER organizations jumped off a cliff

[look at this!]

look at all the volunteers and the way they behave... take them all and hire people with skills enough to make sure the neighborhoods dont burn down.

[t]

:cry:

[guestr]

:lol:

[fdeb]

Not at all

[ughhhhh]

Y'all need to get a life already.... :cry:

[proud FDNY]

It's only a matter of time.

JOE MANDAK
Associated Press Writer


INDIANA, Pa. (AP) -- As a firefighter for a volunteer fire company, Paul Koons does everything -- from changing the toilet paper to driving the truck, conducting fire drills at the old folks' home to handling burgeoning administrative duties in an age of dwindling volunteerism.

He's paid for the work, the only paid firefighter from Indiana County in central Pennsylvania. But he's far from unique.

From coast to coast, volunteer fire companies are hurting because fewer people work near home, as small towns become bedroom communities for people who work in bigger cities. More families have two working parents, leaving less time for volunteer work. As a result, Koons is one of a growing number of paid employees at otherwise volunteer fire departments.

''It's due to the economy. You don't have the luxury of as many volunteers,'' said Koons, an Indiana Fire Association volunteer since 1991, who became the department's $30,000-a-year administrator in January.

''It used to be the barber quit cutting hair and the banker left the office and everybody waited until they got back from fighting the fire,'' said Jack Carriger, the paid chief in Stayton, Ore., where 65 volunteers and a handful of paid firefighters serve four communities, 107 square miles and about 15,000 residents. ''But that isn't a profitable way to do business and people aren't doing that anymore.''

Many of Carriger's volunteers work in Salem, 12 miles northwest of town, or in Portland, 50 miles due north, since Stayton's logging industry died a slow death beginning in the 1970s.

More than 19,000 fire companies out of 26,000 nationwide are all-volunteer. Only 1,878 are fully paid and the rest are volunteer departments with at least one paid employee, said Heather Schafer, executive director of the National Volunteer Fire Council.

''The tradition that the fire service has carried on for hundreds of years is that we're all volunteer and we can do it ourselves,'' Schafer said. ''But today's challenges have made them look to alternate methods of recruiting people and how to staff our departments.''

This year, Congress approved $65 million to help paid and volunteer fire departments retain and hire new staff. Starting May 1, departments began applying for the grants, similar to federal COPS funds used to hire municipal police during the Clinton administration.

Complicating matters is that fire departments are becoming busier and more diverse. Even departments that don't handle emergency medical services now deal with hazardous materials and counterterrorism _ two duties unheard of decades ago. And record keeping is at a premium. If fire companies can't document training, residents can see their fire insurance premiums increase.

''We answered about 50 calls a year about 25 years ago, and last year it was 1,201,'' said Jeff Cash, the paid chief of the Cherryville Fire Department in North Carolina.

Adding EMS service in the 1990s caused Cash's department to have a boom in calls even as the local economy went bust _ losing a major trucking firm and a baker's dozen of textile manufacturers.

''Most of my guys worked for those places and now they have to seek employment in Charlotte,'' Cash said. ''So now they're driving about an hour to work, working eight hours, and driving back an hour. Once you figure in time for their families and other things, there's not a lot of time left for the fire service.''

Cash is one of nine paid employees in an otherwise volunteer department with about 40 total members in a town of 5,400 residents. Two paid staff members work shifts of 24 hours on, 48 hours off, at any one time.

''For a house fire I need two engines and a ladder, which means I need about 12 guys,'' Cash said. ''And during daytime hours during the week, I rarely meet that.''

Pennsylvania State Fire Commissioner Ed Mann, who's also an assistant fire chief in Mifflin County, said some volunteer companies hire drivers to answer calls from 9-to-5 weekdays, when the bulk of their members are working.

''In a lot of cases fire chiefs find themselves going to second and third alarms,'' Mann said. ''It's not unusual to see 10 or 12 vehicles called to a scene and just two being used because the point (of calling in the extra companies) was just to get enough firefighters there.''

Cash said his department uses the Fire Corps model, which grew out of the nation's Homeland Security efforts: finding locals to help out without fighting fires. A professional grant writer from Cherryville now volunteers to do the same thing for the department.

Carriger's department has an $800,000 annual budget, funded by a small property tax levy. That amount is dwarfed by the economic value of the volunteers, yet Carriger and others find themselves explaining to the public why a volunteer fire company needs paid employees.

''It's just driven by necessity. It's a matter of informing the public that it's not all going to be free anymore,'' Carriger said.

Koons said some longtime volunteers have also questioned why he is being paid.

''They'll say, 'But when my dad was here, it wasn't an issue.' Well, back when your dad was here everybody worked within three blocks of the firehouse, too,'' Koons said.

:shock:

vollies suck

[proud FDNY]

vollies sux

You should be proud, FDNY is an awesome department second to none.
I personally would not dignify the response of the child that posts crap like the loot bag comment.
The jousting between paid and volunteer keeps getting uglier and uglier.
Who knows someday it may all go paid but I think not in our lifetime.
I am a volunteer fireman, with twenty years expierience, an accomplished nozzleman with over a dozen and a half inside stops, and have no need for the treadmill or Stairmaster.
I also have the utmost respect for FDNY and the firemen that work hard everyday to protect the people and property of New York City.
And all the city firemen I know respect the men of the volunteer departments protecting the peopole and property of Nassau and Suffolk County, in fact many are volunteers in their community. There is one or two childish individuals that continue to post this crap to inflame tempers and upset people. They only do it because of the response they get, how sad! There are poor members of both the paid and volunteer fire services, neither one is perfect, and poking at one another with these failures and trying to smear the entire organization due to the actions of a misguided few is just senseless.
Stay safe my brothers both paid and volunteer!

:D

:shock:

[A. Nonymous]

Amazing, bad mouthing a great dept like FDNY for a few bad apples. like vollies are perfect. for they serve for pride and not a paycheck. yea ok. like members who dont go to a REAL training center (i.e old bethpage and yaphank) in 15-20 yrs but always show up at functions or parades/drills ( knife and forker ring a bell?) gimme a break,the shining stars in the FDNY you mention should be terminated, but vollies carry folks who race, parade, and buy the boys the right amount of beers they want. neither side is perfect, and ive seen volunteer houses with beer goin 24/7 have crews with more than one beer get on the rig. luckily , no ones been caught out in the burbs. wait and see. common sense tells us the papers DONT like the FD be it one or the other, just see who messes up first. give it a rest, tho i am wasting my time typing this. bashing is a way of life. and to those who saw FDNY pillaging thru the WTC, u shoulda had the guts to drop a dime. as u can see NYPD would have a field day bustin them for it.

i did my time 9/11 and i saw NOTHING worth stealing (and i wouldnt even if i could). As much as i woulda recorded history, i DID NOT bring a camera to the site, much to my regret. i dont even own a piece of the steel for my own collection, for it wasnt worth losing my job over. but i do wonder, if the almighty FDNY has "loot bags" (yes, i know its sarcasm, what did some vollies take??). ive been a vollie, and for that im in the FDNY and i HAVENT forgot where i came from (like 9/11 funerals, thanx VFD's). but ive seen the hairbags in the vollies too. and they are as if not more disgraceful than any screwball FDNY. remember its only a civil service test. and NYPD aint perfect, either by calling us looters in boots etc,etc. they got even more screwballs cuz they got 3-4x as many people to do it. im proud to say we have a good rapport with the local pcts, after all were gettin the same NYC shaft in the same NYC employee orifice. Stay safe all.

[A. Nonymous]

:oops:

terryville is trash

[Proud FDNY]

0fdaf

[mel1]

:arrow:

:o

:oops:

:shock:

[`]

:D

(CONTENT REMOVED BY COKED UP ON DUTY VOLLIE FIREMAN)

:shock:

vollies sux........

unfortunately how true. but remember there are screwballs on both sides... hopefully they will be forced to retire.....

[lbltjag]

This has got to be the stupidest thread on this entire site. This tit-for-tat about the paid guys who phuck up and the volunteer guys who phuck up. Who cares. In any organization there are going to be some bad apples. That goes for FD's (both paid and volunteer), boy scouts, the clergy. You can see where I'm going with this. The fact that there are phuck ups in any organization does not and should not brand the entire organization.

What really matters when comparing paid versus volunteer FF's is how they handle the job that needs to be done. If a FF likes to have a drink or watch porn in his/her off hours that's their business. What I care about is how they respond when the bells ring. I happen to be of the belief that generally - generally - paid departments are going to be providing a faster response with more highly trained FF's. I believe that this generally - generally - translates into better outcomes to the incidents to which they are asked to respond. Paid or volunteer really is not the issue here. Its not like getting paid to do something necessarily means you're going to be good at it. When you get into a cab you are being driven by a "professional" driver. We all know what good drivers cabbies are. No, the title of professional no more insures that you're competent than the title of volunteer insures that you're not.

That having been said, I have observed that paid departments, as a whole, are better at delivering the service that we exist to provide. Listen, there's a reason why 75% of the population and property (by dollar value) in this country is under the coverage of paid departments: they just do the job better. This is not meant to impugn the job done by the well meaning volunteer departments out there. Its just a cold hard fact.

If you set aside the cost issue ( that's an entirely different debate) there is no reason for a community to prefer a volunteer fire department over a paid one. Fire doesn't care how you make your livelihood and neither does the taxpayer whose property falls victim to it. All a fire wants is the time to grow and consume as much as possible. The fire department that can reduce the time available for the spread of that fire is going to be more successful. For my money that is an adequately staffed paid department.

There are certain points to your arguement that make sense, yes a crew in the firehouse responding immediately will have greater success than waiting for a response to the fire house first. But to simply disregard the cost factor of your 24/7 adaquately staffed firehouses in districts that have 5 or 6 working fires a year makes no sense. I don't dispute that the quicker the response the more likely lives will be saved but your arguement makes no sense in regard to the fact that the adaquately staffed 24/7 firehouse does not guarentee that lives would be saved some just can't be. By the same token taking the cost factor out as you convienently did, if you place an adaquately staffed engine on every block that would increase the lives saved and fires stopped but simply is not logical.
The cost factor is the main problem here and cannot be ignored. In cities and large municipal areas the tax base and work load justify paid. But due to the cost when you get into suburban and rural areas to make it cost effective the equipment and firemen must cover a much greater area, which in turn is a problem if you don't live right near the fire house. The paid firehouses would be distributed over a much larger area and the responses would become on average no better due to the greater distances of travel required.

[Side Note]

Just a side note to this conversation, as i was perusing the Daily News this morning, it appears that the FDNY firefighter that tested positive for cocaine in his sytem, cannot be fired, because the test was deemed, "illegal", on the grounds of no evidence to make the firefighter take the narc test.

:D

[trend]

Illinois Firefighters Will Lose Their Jobs

About 25 members of the Justice Fire Department stood shoulder to shoulder Monday night as the village board decided the fate of their jobs.

In a 3-to-3 vote that the mayor had to break, the village board agreed to contract out its fire and ambulance services to the Roberts Park Fire Protection District.

About 400 people turned out for Monday's meeting, forcing the crowd outside.

The 25 firefighters in attendance along with another 29 will lose their jobs effective Aug. 1 when the district is expected to take over service for all of the village. Roberts Park already serves a portion of Justice.

Deputy Fire Chief Rick Symondz said the firefighters are going to look for some kind of legal recourse.

"We will be there," said Symondz who has been with the department for 31 years.

Justice Mayor Mel VanAllen, crafted the plan as a way for the village to save money.

Trustees Vicki Kelly, Ed Jurgel and James Gabrys voted in favor of the agreement. Trustees Richard Sparr, Richard Berkowicz and Mike Maruszak voted against it.

The board also split on approving the appointment of Ernie Spatola as the new fire chief.

Before the vote, Sparr, who resigned as a firefighter last week to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest, asked that the vote be postponed.

"Residents are here because they're concerned," said Sparr who served as a firefighter for 26 years.

Sparr and Maruszak also asked that Kelly's vote not be counted because her husband is a trustee with the Roberts Park Fire Protection District.

But VanAllen insisted that there was no conflict of interest and later Kelly agreed.

"People voted for me. I have my own mind," Kelly said.

She said she cast her vote "to be fiscally responsible."

Roberts Park's board is expected to vote in favor of the move later this month.

The crowd often erupted into shouts — many against VanAllen — including one in which some chanted, "Mel's got to go."

"They did a good job of getting a lot of people out," VanAllen said. "We have 12,193 people in town. I'd guess we had 400 people here tonight —that's not a majority."

Under the proposal Justice will pay the fire protection district $500,000 for two years and lease the village's equipment and station to the district. At the end of the two years a referendum could appear on the ballot.

VanAllen said it's a $400,000 cost saving measure because the village spent about $900,000 last year.

VanAllen quoted an auditor who told the village to trim $1 million from its budget.

But Sparr and Maruszak disagreed.

Sparr said the reasons to get rid of the fire department are not financial, but political.

He said it would only take about $50,000 more for the village to keep its fire department.

Maruszak, who chairs the finance committee, said VanAllen has his own agenda.

"When we went into committee (last week) he presented it as, 'this is what I want,'" Maruszak said. "I'm concerned he's going to put us in the hole."

[so?]

Roberts Park is also a paid dept covering the villages of justice and hickory hills ill. so whats ur point in this post?

[?]

The Roberts Park Fire Protection District is located in Justice, Illinois. Roberts Park provides fire suppression, rescue, hazardous material response, and emergency medical service to over 16,000 citizens in the southwest Chicago suburbs of Hickory Hills and Justice. The district is predominantly residential with numerous apartment buildings and some small commercial businesses. As a fire protection district, Roberts Park relies mainly on property tax as a source of revenue. Currently the department operates on an annual budget of $1.8 million.

The State of Illinois chartered the Roberts Park Fire Protection District in 1946. Trustees, who are appointed by each of the townships served by the district, are charged with fiscal management. The fire chief is a full-time employee who is responsible for the overall day-to-day operation of the department. Currently, Roberts Park is classified as a combination department utilizing fifteen full-time and thirty part-time members to provide service to the community. Staffed twenty-four hours a day, Roberts Park members respond to more than 2,000 calls annually.

In order to provide the best protection for the citizens of the district, Roberts Park is involved in mutual aid agreements with surrounding fire departments. As part of this agreement, Roberts Park firefighters respond to fires in neighboring towns who provide the same service in return. By doing this, each department involved in the agreement realizes additional firefighters on the scene of an incident with no additional direct cost to taxpayers. The driving force behind mutual aid is life safety for the public and firefighters.

The driving force behind mutual aid is life safety for the public and firefighters.

maybe many depts here can heed this advice...

[biased1]

:lol:

you are a dik, where does it display his/her id or any proof its even a city fd? Its someone looking to piss little idiots like you off and laugh at you getting mad at them. Grow up ignore them, and he'll go away. argue and he'll have the last laugh.

[?]

my point being it was a paid dept replaced by a paid dept.. HIS point didnt make any sense

[kdrfa;ah]

A department with a large complement of full time professional fire fighters is being replaced by a department with 13 full time and the rest paid on call / volunteer.

The trent for combination departments seem to be to reduce full time and increase part time paid on call / volunteer.

still a paid dept tho. that set up is very common in the chicago area. VERY few if any volunteer depts in the area. but im sure some of the paid guys in justuce will be hired by roberts park. i know some folks there and they havent heard them closing the justice house

[laid]

:D

:shock:

:roll:

[Whateverer]

IAFF is all about the dollar I guess. Wonder what happened to trying to save lives and helping your neighbors? I don't disagree that a paid fireforce is needed in some larger areas. But to just want to rob the small communities that can't afford full timers is just wrong. I guess thats the message that IAFF wants to send. Go volunteers! We know YOUR hearts are in the right place!

Another "Paid" Rocket scientist.....

Jul 20, 8:36 AM EDT

Fire Captain Uses Fire Truck to Water Lawn

KOKOMO, Ind. (AP) -- A city fire captain has gotten in trouble for mixing work with his home life.

Capt. Kevin Shaffer must repay the department $120 for using a fire truck to water his yard. He also was reprimanded and must pay 35 cents per gallon for the water he used, officials said.

Shaffer and other firefighters were training recently on the south end of town, after which Shaffer wanted to purge the truck's tank.

Instead of dumping the water down on the street or down a drain as is normal procedure, Shaffer put the water on his lawn in the city 50 miles north of Indianapolis, Deputy Chief Pat Donoghue said Tuesday.



"We consider that a misuse of fire department equipment," Donoghue said. "He said he didn't want to waste it. If he didn't want to waste it, he could have watered the department's lawn."

Shaffer said he did not plan to appeal the reprimand or fine.

:D

firemen are firemen, paid or volunteer. vol fd's have f-ups, FDNY has them too. if everyone stopped this big pissing match of were better than you crap, and started working together, dare I say we might get something good out of it.

while we fight, bicker and argue....terrorists are organized and working together to plan another attack to harm the citizens of the US. its time we all smarten up, and President Cassidy, why dont lead the way instead of stirring the pot.

[aab]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An Official Communication from the UFA

July 20th

Mutual Aid Drill

At the end of July, the Department plans to conduct a mutual aid drill between units in Queens and units from various volunteer companies on Long Island. The UFA supports being better prepared for future incidents by the re-opening of the six companies closed by the Bloomberg Administration. Volunteer fire departments do not have the training and work experience that members of this Department have and the use of UNPAID units only advances the City's agenda of "doing more with less," thus, opening the door for the argument to close additional fire companies and further endanger the lives of civilians and firefighters. The UFA Executive Board asks any and all members of FDNY, who are members of Volunteer Companies, not to attend as members of Volunteer Units. Furthermore, any UFA member found to take part in this joint exercise as a member of a Volunteer Company will be in violation of Article XVI, Section 3 of the UFA Constitution and be subject to expulsion from the Uniformed Firefighters Association.


Fraternally,
Stephen J. Cassidy

President


Part Time firefighters are paid, but not professional firefighters.

They take benefits, salary, and positions away from the true IAFF professionals.

To quote our president:

"We as a union, by Convention actions, do not represent or condone volunteer, part-time or paid on-call fire fighters. "

This is a clear instance of putting the dollar before the safety of the lives and property of the areas we serve and undermines the position of professional firefighters.

This is exactly why each of the local IAFF leaders are actively enforcing this provision.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear IAFF Affiliate Presidents:


I am writing to you in order to clarify and correct a letter I authorized to be written and sent over my signature to Congressman Felix Grucci on July 25, 2002, relating to IAFF members serving as volunteers. This letter has unfortunately been used and misused by those who wish to create difficulties for IAFF locals exercising their rights under our Constitution and By-Laws in dealing with IAFF members who choose to volunteer. I regret that, as prepared and sent, the Grucci letter has caused serious concerns for some of our affiliates. I want to set the record straight.

Earlier this year our friends in Congress had been strongly warning us that a campaign of confusion and misinformation regarding the IAFF's position on volunteers was underway. This campaign, in their judgment, would jeopardize our standing on Capitol Hill, and thereby seriously threaten our entire legislative agenda, including national collective bargaining and our staffing initiative. With increasing impatience, they encouraged us to respond to these issues, both to protect our legislative interests and to alleviate the extreme pressure that our Congressional allies were confronting for supporting the IAFF's position. The letter was generated in response to those concerns.

I can recall few issues during my thirty-two year union career that have caused as much scrutiny and searing public criticism as this issue has created in the last year. This attention was the product of an outside smear campaign focused on several factors. Among these were the IAFF Executive Board's rightful decision to declare a number of volunteer fire departments as rival organizations in December of 2000, as well as the decision by several locals in the United States and Canada to appropriately exercise their rights under our Constitution to file charges against IAFF members who were serving as volunteer, part-time or paid on-call fire fighters.Both of these situations resulted in intense media coverage. Much of the media attention had been generated and aggravated by a few national volunteer fire organizations in an effort to undermine the IAFF's historical stance on this issue. Newspaper editorials condemned the IAFF, and the volunteer organizations orchestrated a letter-writing campaign of misinformation to Congress, and to state and provincial legislatures, demanding a political response. In the wake of September 11, some politicians even had the gall to suggest that IAFF members who sought to enforce our Constitution lacked community spirit. Some Congressional opponents also attempted to paint our position as a deliberate affront to President Bush's call to the nation for every American to volunteer their time to some public service.

Consequently, our opponents in the United States Congress were poised in early July to introduce an unprecedented Congressional resolution that would have censured and condemned the IAFF. Recognizing the Congressional action on the resolution was imminent, I authorized senior staff to draft and send a letter over my signature which was intended to deal only with the employment rights of career fire fighters under U.S. law if they were expelled from the IAFF for serving as volunteers.

Although the letter was intended to clarify the confusion and misinformation that had been generated on Capitol Hill, unfortunately it did not accurately reflect the union's or my position regarding this matter and created more problems for some of our affiliates, than resolve the narrow issues it was intended to address. Due in part to the extraordinary time constraints involved, the letter was poorly written and hastily sent. In retrospect, it was an ill-advised effort to mollify our opponents, and the letter should never have been sent.

As straightforward as I can be with you, I should have been more diligent to ensure that the process of drafting and sending a letter of such importance, over my signature, reflected the union's as well as my personally held views.

I can think of no other issue that has aroused as much passion, or has been the subject of such strongly held beliefs, as the issue of IAFF members who volunteer as fire fighters and paramedics. Perhaps because of my own early struggle to create an IAFF local in a combination fire department that was forced to compete with volunteer fire fighters for equipment and resources, I am particularly sensitive to the internal strife that can arise when our members serve as volunteers.

The IAFF Constitution makes it clear that IAFF members can be subject to charges and internal discipline if they serve as volunteers.

The Convention delegates who added this provision to our Constitution clearly recognized that, all too often, jurisdictions rely upon the services of volunteers to undermine the efforts of our own members to obtain the resources necessary to support a properly staffed and adequately equipped full time career fire department.

As a union representing the interests of paid professional fire fighters, we can and must promote the interests of our members by strongly advocating career fire departments across North America. Let me be as clear as possible. We as a union, by Convention actions, do not represent or condone volunteer, part-time or paid on-call fire fighters. This is also my personal position, as it has been from the time that I first joined the IAFF. It remains my position today as your General President, and I have reiterated this position to affiliate leaders on a number of occasions.

As General President, I have the responsibility to interpret the IAFF Constitution and Bylaws, and to decide any appeals brought before my office from a trial board's decision regarding a misconduct charge.

Though I have not yet been required to decide an appeal from a trial board decision pertaining to this issue, you should harbor no doubt that I shall apply the foregoing principles to any dispute that is brought before my office involving an IAFF member's support or participation in a volunteer fire department or association.

It is time to reaffirm the provisions of our Constitution on this critical issue to those both inside and outside of our organization.

Although an IAFF member may make a personal choice to join a volunteer fire department, that personal choice is one that can have serious consequences under our Constitution, including the loss of IAFF membership.

In closing, as the General President of a union charged with promoting the interests of paid, full-time professional fire fighters and paramedics, I will continue to work vigorously to make certain that all IAFF members enjoy a safe working environment, just compensation, and are afforded the rights they deserve.

Fraternally,
Harold A. Schaitberger General President

[WTF is this]

Nassau and Suffock Firefighters, stop volunteering to ensure the city opens more fire houses and to force the counties to go to a fully paid unionized system.

Your actions are holding this back

as a union man, i wonder where u get your info from.. some delegates say that if bloomberg gets reelected, he will CLOSE firehouses. and what reason would that be to make suffolk and nassau go paid? MAYBE a combo system, but not fully paid. there are as many screwballs in the vollies as there are in paid depts. its only one less test, and a popularity contest.

but ill guess ur just stirring the pot. but ill have my fun too

[yesiree]

o.k., no problem...I quit

:lol:

Nassau and Suffock Firefighters, stop volunteering to ensure the city opens more fire houses and to force the counties to go to a fully paid unionized system.

Your actions are holding this back

as a union man, i wonder where u get your info from.. some delegates say that if bloomberg gets reelected, he will CLOSE firehouses. and what reason would that be to make suffolk and nassau go paid? MAYBE a combo system, but not fully paid. there are as many screwballs in the vollies as there are in paid depts. its only one less test, and a popularity contest.

but ill guess ur just stirring the pot. but ill have my fun too


The reason is by demonstrating he can have 20 volunteer companhies vol companies relocate from westchester, long island, etc., he can futher reduce maining from 5 to 4 per company, close 20 FDNY firehouses, and reduce starting pay through arbitration to 25k for the Rock, Turn EMS over to the COPS, and say he has the additional reserve from areas surrrounding to reduce the cities cost. Bloomee wants to leverage the resources outside of the city to reduce the cities cost for political capital. Its all in the works>>>

[FFSC]

GOOD!

I hope the ENTIRE FDNY goes volunteer!!

Thank you Mayor Bloomberg,
Your doing a GREAT job!!

[this dudes a loser]

GOOD!

I hope the ENTIRE FDNY goes volunteer!!

Thank you Mayor Bloomberg,
Your doing a GREAT job!!

As a drunken coke user and a member of FDNY I agree

[:]

:lol:
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UNprofessionals SUCK MOOSE CCK!!!!!













UNprofessionals SUCK MOOSE CCK!!!!!

















vollies suck




















UNprofessionals SUCK MOOSE CCK!!!!!

so whats your point? just as many vollies arrested for the same things.. for example,what eatons neck captain didnt realize he hit a person and killed him? last year under 50 in the FDNY were arrested for dwi and other stupid stuff. and believe you me, i dont condone it. do a little math and u may see out of 12,000 firemen (15,000 with emts/medics). the number is 4/10 of 1 percent .004. there are screwballs in every organization..... hey how about that bethpage chief takin us for 250k? and that selden chief playing touchy feely at a parade, hmm drunk and in unifrom........ glass houses come to mind....and BTW, im a paid and unpaid professional. its all about the attitude....

[whats NEXT ?]

First we have assaults on brother firemen
then we have drug abuse,
then its alcohol use and DWI's.

NOW ITS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY !!!!!!!!!!

WHEN ARE YOU "PAID" UNPROFESSIONALS GONNA GROW UP ??

:arrow:

:lol:

[Union Man]

I am not sure why I am bothering to reply to this thread. However, I find myself doing just so. I am an active volunteer for a Suffolk County Fire Dept. and for several Vol. Amb. Corps. Volunteer FD's are the best and most cost efficient saving taxpayers millions and providing better care.

The NYC EMS systems is failing.

Paid departments accross the country are looking to improve service and reduce cost through increasing the volunteers and part time / on call members.

[real union I blew local 3]

hey union man I swallowed the whole city azzhole !!!!!

:lol:

I am not sure why I am bothering to reply to this thread. However, I find myself doing just so. I am a former volunteer for a Suffolk County Fire Dept. and for several Vol. Amb. Corps. I do not dicredit most of the persons who belong to those organizations. But to be a total F*cking dumbass and think that DWI are not committed by volunteers is just dumb. I use to get smashed in my own firehouse in the bar that my district paid for, that they stocked as "refreshments" their $3.5million is capable of sustaining a fully functional fire dept. of the same scale. Believe I know this as fact. I am at a 400+ department and our total operating expenditures is about 55 million dollars. That is an average of 1.125 million to run each station this includes salary and apparatus. We have a new engine every fifth year and a new rescue at every 5 years or 100,000 miles. Needless to say our trucks are nice and new. We have accountability unlike vollies, we lose our jobs where vollies get a week of no going to calls or my favorite social probation. So you have to leave within 15 minutes of a signal 5/25. So blow it out your ass you vollie puss who cant get a job as a real fireman. You but heads with me pal you will lose.


Gee I would get the paid job but don't want the cut in pay, I make twice your salary in my real job and still get to be a fireman at home. Really scorches your shorts doesn't it!!! :lol: :lol:

That's fu*ked-up. True, but fu*ked-up.. :lol: :lol:

I have been a vollie for 16 years. I drink too much johnny walker

he makes me want to puke

well said chief :!:

[Union Man]

With all due respect, I can sympathize with your words chief, after all I lost friends, brother firefighters, and most of all family. For me and many others I watch TV or listen to the radio and till this day you hear the echoes of 9/11. Memories plague my thoughts of how horrible it must be for the closer of kin, for a fireman's now widowed wife, and for his children that will grieve for eternity. But do not let your personal feelings of UFA or FDNY for that matter influence you in right from wrong or what is best for communites. I think people reference FDNY way too much myself, but that is cause it is big brother one or two counties away. The simple truth is consolidated or regional systems are more effective, efficient, and more fiscally responsible than municple volunteer.

On a personal note Union 3. Your an electician for the Teamsters. A union man. Act like it. You should be supportive of union brothers and trash talk them.

I truly believe that their is a place for professional volunteers, I am not a hypocrite. But somewhere lays responsibilty in response times, finacial management, corporation infustructure, patient care, and property loss mitigation.

union man

I appreciate your thoughts. I had a typo on my msg. I have been a vollie 26 years not 16. Not that that matters, but in all those years i have never seen it like this.

I agree that some vollie department abuse the priviledges. I also believe that 90% of the departments are trying to do a good job. Is there a waste of money in some spots, probably. You can not tell me there is not wasted money in the city

we have to be able to coexist

[Union Man]

Absolutely, there is many wastes in any program. For instance the duplicated services provided by the NYPD marine rescue, HAZMAT. TECH Rescue, etc.. But in my professional opinion, that being combined as both paid and volunteer, Suffolk and Nassau counties cannot use FDNY as a example of whom they desire to be. You need to find a program more suitable to meet the counties needs. Many counties in Florida have recognized this and have become some of the most progressed fire departments in the US. Including ALS engines, whereby on L.I. there are still volunteer fire departments providing BLS rescues. This is one of many examples whereby mismanagement and lack of concern with no repercussion plays a role in the volunteer demographics.

[Union Vol.]

I am not sure why I am bothering to reply to this thread. However, I find myself doing just so. I am an active volunteer for a Suffolk County Fire Dept. and for several Vol. Amb. Corps. Volunteer FD's are the best and most cost efficient saving taxpayers millions and providing better care.

The NYC EMS systems is failing.

Paid departments accross the country are looking to improve service and reduce cost through increasing the volunteers and part time / on call members.

Union Man, thank you for continuing to be an active supporter of the volunteer system and champion for reducing cost / waste in paid departments.

def not

well said chief :!: :?: