Speeding Tickets

[guest11111]

Looking for advice.

If you get a speeding ticket from a state trooper and forget to pay it, what is the best way to resolve the issue, considering that a good deal of time has past?

Thanks

Go to the local DMV(let someone else drive) and tell them you want to clear up your suspended license. That is of course you recieved that ticket in NY.

[guest11111]

It was a ticket from driving through NJ.

[nycpo1]

Your license is still suspended. You could be arrested in the city. Out here, usually its just a summons. Call or go online and they can tell you the best way to go about it.

Looking for advice.

If you get a speeding ticket from a state trooper and forget to pay it, what is the best way to resolve the issue, considering that a good deal of time has past?

Thanks
http://trafficstop.ca/?OVRAW=speeding%20tickets&OVKEY=speeding%20ticket&OVMTC=standard

[better site]

scamsrus.com

[RMCP]

Dont waste your time. Canadian site, you'd pay more than to them than if you just pled guilty

Looking for advice.

If you get a speeding ticket from a state trooper and forget to pay it, what is the best way to resolve the issue, considering that a good deal of time has past?

Thanks

DONT DO THE CRIME IF YOU CANT DO THE TIME!

Looking for advice.

If you get a speeding ticket from a state trooper and forget to pay it, what is the best way to resolve the issue, considering that a good deal of time has past?

Thanks

DONT DO THE CRIME IF YOU CANT DO THE TIME!

OR buy a PBA card on E-BAY...... However, you really cant even depend on a PBA card to get you out of a ticket anymore. WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!!!!!

[Write 'em]

Looking for advice.

If you get a speeding ticket from a state trooper and forget to pay it, what is the best way to resolve the issue, considering that a good deal of time has past?

Thanks

DONT DO THE CRIME IF YOU CANT DO THE TIME!

OR buy a PBA card on E-BAY...... However, you really cant even depend on a PBA card to get you out of a ticket anymore. WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!!!!!

Any cop that would let someone go with an E-bay bought PBA card should be ashamed! I for one extensively question ANYone who shows me a PBA card until I'm convinced that the card came from the officer they claim. They better know the cops name, relatonship, and at least where he or she works. If it's obvious that the card holder has no idea who the cop is, they're getting one and the card comes with me. And the fact that you can't depend on a PBA card anymore is because of the jerk-offs who give them out to everyone they see. Immediate family and friends that are LIKE family to me are the ONLY people who get a card from me. Those are the ONLY people who should hold a card. END OF STORY!

[Officer 5573]

I for one extensively question ANYone who shows me a PBA card until I'm convinced that the card came from the officer they claim. They better know the cops name, relatonship, and at least where he or she works. If it's obvious that the card holder has no idea who the cop is, they're getting one and the card comes with me.

I agree. And just because I am committing a grand larceny (felony) when I take a motorist's PBA card without their permission or authority, I feel I am justified in denying the motorist due process when I act as judge, jury, prosecutor and procurer of stolen property.

We all know the chief purpose of the PBA card is to protect and hold harmless those people intimately associated with LEO's when they commit offenses and crimes against the PSNY.

As for me, I have a strict policy that limits who gets a PBA card from me every year. The local pizza place owner, the manager at the Chinese restaurant where my family eats once a week, my postman, my sanitation guys, the gardener and his crew of four, my neighbor's Aunt Tilly from Washington State, the meter reader, the cashier at the corner 7-11, and most importantly my auto mechanic...among a few others.

As you can see I judiciously dole out PBA cards and I really wish my brother officers would adopt a similar policy.

[sooorrrrryyyy]

PBA cards are property of the PBA, read it knucklehead

[to knucklehead]

PBA cards are property of the PBA, read it knucklehead

It's printed right on the back of the card. It's not the property of the holder and can be seized at any time.

[Curly]

I hope none of my family or friends run into you. You sound like a real stand up guy. Not only do I show courtesy to PBA cards but also show courtesy to employees of Keyspan, Verizon, Cablevision and pretty much any other working person as long as they are not disrespectful, aren't a total jerkoff. We have discretion. Get the chip off your shoulder and get over yourself.

[Curly]

The above was for Write em.

[SCPD PATROL 3]

Many guys are now putting their cell phone # on the back of the card. Not a bad way of verifying things. I hate when guys don't fill out the name of the person to whom the card was given or sign the card themselves.

[Lynbr00k rules Schwartz]

Many guys are now putting their cell phone # on the back of the card. Not a bad way of verifying things. I hate when guys don't fill out the name of the person to whom the card was given or sign the card themselves.

Last time I was stopped by a female Suffolk Cop for speeding. She grilled me about who gave me the card (my brother in law). Then she still gave me a ticket because she didnt like the guy.

[write 'em]

Relax there tough guy. Not that I have to defend myself to anyone including you, but you missed the point of my post. Maybe I could have worded it better too. My main point was the problem with too many cards being given out to almost anyone. I am actually one of the hardest cops to get a summons from. If you're a halfway decent person, are respectful. and you weren't driving 70 MPH on the sidewalks. you most likely won't get paper from me. I just get tired and frustrated with all the cards I see where the holder barely has any knowledge of the cop that gave it to them. These cops that give a card to every woman they try to pick up in a bar (who then goes home and gives it to their boyfriend) or to anyone who does them the slightest favor have got to back off.

[doubtful?]

C'mon lynbrook, as if you are friends with any cops, hang it up already

[Ms. Manners]

PBA cards are property of the PBA, read it knucklehead

It's printed right on the back of the card. It's not the property of the holder and can be seized at any time.

Sorry Officer. Would you please call your supervisor to the scene? My PBA card belongs to me until you can show me a law or departmental regulation that permits a police officer to seize ANY private property while acting as an agent for a private organization? :roll:

[your options]

1) You show me the pba card, I confiscate it.
2) You show me the pba card, I hand it back to you and write you every summons I can think of.
3) You hand me the pba card I confiscate it and then instead of writing you a summons, I lock you up.
Then when you get out you can attempt your little dead end complaint. There is no policy stating because you want a supervisor, I have to call 1, sorry.

[MASTER SHIELD]

These cops that give a card to every woman they try to pick up in a bar (who then goes home and gives it to their boyfriend) or to anyone who does them the slightest favor have got to back off.

You got it right there, Toughguy. Maybe it is time to declare a moratorium on discretion and write everyone until the union figures out a way to rectify the current calamity.

Personally I've cut way back this year. I only ordered 50 PBA cards for 2005. You know, just for close friends and family.

[MASTER SHIELD]

1) You show me the pba card, I confiscate it.
2) You show me the pba card, I hand it back to you and write you every summons I can think of.
3) You hand me the pba card I confiscate it and then instead of writing you a summons, I lock you up.
Then when you get out you can attempt your little dead end complaint. There is no policy stating because you want a supervisor, I have to call 1, sorry.

Great response. Put that Manners b!tch right in her place. We do what we want regardless of regs or the law. We got MASTER SHIELD! LOL

[master baitor]

C'mon lurker we all know who that Manners beech was.

[Pierre]

C'mon lurker we all know who that Manners beech was.

Hey Bud...up early as usual I see.

[im on my meal]

your excuse?

[living for police issues]

I dont know any cops but if I keep asking every cop I see someone will give me a pba card. Or maybe I'll just buy 1 on e-bay for 100.
Then I can speed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[Vert]

your excuse?

Got home a lil while ago and figured we havent busted each others balls for a few days, so I came here to see if you were around. Hank should be stopping by in a bit. I wonder which hat he'll wear today?

[hank being?]

Your other personality?

I hope none of my family or friends run into you. You sound like a real stand up guy. Not only do I show courtesy to PBA cards but also show courtesy to employees of Keyspan, Verizon, Cablevision and pretty much any other working person as long as they are not disrespectful, aren't a total jerkoff. We have discretion. Get the chip off your shoulder and get over yourself.

so basically your an empty suit. You're one of those guys that dont like to write tickets. Its part of your job. Warnings dont do anything . stop justifying that fact that you like to sit in your car, drink coffee and do nothing for 125k per year

[curly]

Where did I state that I don't write tickets. I just choose not to hammer every person I pull over. You've allready formed your own opinion about the kind of cop I am so do me a favor and go $#@%%^ yourself, you mental case.

[????]

Who's the mental case?

Where did I state that I don't write tickets. I just choose not to hammer every person I pull over. You've allready formed your own opinion about the kind of cop I am so do me a favor and go $#@%%^ yourself, you mental case.

curly seems to have some anger management problems. do we really need a cop like him patrolling our neighborhoods. Go join the FD and Race cars.

[cards-r-us]

honoring cards is a good way to do business. the problem is that cards are given out to anyone and everyone. nassau pba tried to put numbers on the cards a couple of years ago(in an effort to track them). it didnt work and now over 78,000 cards are printed annually. dont know the answer, just try to use good judgement and common sense.

honoring cards is a good way to do business. the problem is that cards are given out to anyone and everyone. nassau pba tried to put numbers on the cards a couple of years ago(in an effort to track them). it didnt work and now over 78,000 cards are printed annually. dont know the answer, just try to use good judgement and common sense.


As the saying goes... The more ya burn, the more they learn.

[Ms. Manners]

In a previous post I wrote - "My PBA card belongs to me until you can show me a law or departmental regulation that permits a police officer to seize ANY private property while acting as an agent for a private organization?"

Another poster was kind enough to repsond but he apparently did not have a credible answer. So instead he wrote about how a police officer would abuse his authority, bully and intimidate a citizen who asserts his rights and dares to challenge an officer attempting to unlawfully seize private property from a civilian.

This poster, who purports to be a police officer, also insinuated that when the citizen he is abusing makes a civilian complaint against the officer, the officer will lie about the circimstances of the encounter to help insure the complaint ends up in the IAD dead end file.

If the person who wrote the below quote is in fact a police officer, I'm sure those reading his words can plainly see us mere mortals don't stand a chance against a inadequately supervised and poorly trained psycho cop with an attitude.

1) You show me the pba card, I confiscate it.
2) You show me the pba card, I hand it back to you and write you every summons I can think of.
3) You hand me the pba card I confiscate it and then instead of writing you a summons, I lock you up.
Then when you get out you can attempt your little dead end complaint. There is no policy stating because you want a supervisor, I have to call 1, sorry.

The civilian readers and contributors to this board are still waiting for one of the many officers who frequent here to show their manners and offer a cogent response to this comment:

"My PBA card belongs to me until you can show me a law or departmental regulation that permits a police officer to seize ANY private property while acting as an agent for a private organization?"

[Gigli]

Did suffolk pba put out year decals for this year? And fyi, I have never been written in Suffolk with a Suffolk pba card, then again, I am not stopped often. For you guys OTJ, do you write the cards with the PBA in the shield where the tin number belongs?

In a previous post I wrote - "My PBA card belongs to me until you can show me a law or departmental regulation that permits a police officer to seize ANY private property while acting as an agent for a private organization?"

Another poster was kind enough to repsond but he apparently did not have a credible answer. So instead he wrote about how a police officer would abuse his authority, bully and intimidate a citizen who asserts his rights and dares to challenge an officer attempting to unlawfully seize private property from a civilian.

This poster, who purports to be a police officer, also insinuated that when the citizen he is abusing makes a civilian complaint against the officer, the officer will lie about the circimstances of the encounter to help insure the complaint ends up in the IAD dead end file.

If the person who wrote the below quote is in fact a police officer, I'm sure those reading his words can plainly see us mere mortals don't stand a chance against a inadequately supervised and poorly trained psycho cop with an attitude.


The civilian readers and contributors to this board are still waiting for one of the many officers who frequent here to show their manners and offer a cogent response to this comment:

"My PBA card belongs to me until you can show me a law or departmental regulation that permits a police officer to seize ANY private property while acting as an agent for a private organization?"


This is the type of attitude that usually gets you a few tickets :wink:

[pba property]

There are many businesses that issue id cards, parking cards, many clubs that issue member cards.The state issues licenses, drivers, business and the like. dmv and these clubs or businesses reserve the right to confiscate these cards at any time.

The pba issues cards to its members. these cards are pba property, and can be confiscated at any time unless you can prove you personally are a member of the pba.period.
When you show a police officer the card the card, he takes it and looks at it to verify its authenticity. He may have a listing of stolen or counterfeit cards circulating in his area. He checks it, and makes a choice whether to confiscate it and return it to the pba, or return it to the holder.
These cards are given out with the knowledge that any police officer,anywhere can at any time confiscate the property. That is explained to anyone who is given one by a actual police officer.
None of this is about authority or anything else. You are holding property that doesnt belong to you, I am authorized to take it away and return it to the rightful owner, in this case the pba.
You want it back call them and ask for it.

[Interested Bystander]

You are holding property that doesnt belong to you, I am authorized to take it away and return it to the rightful owner, in this case the pba.
You want it back call them and ask for it.

In the case of PBA cards, who authorizes the police to seize lawfully possessed property? The State Legislature? The Police Commissioner? the PD Legal Dept?County Exscutive? The DA? Elliot Ness?

Or are you referring to the unwritten laws that cops only know about. The unwritten laws where cops can act anyway they please and deny later?

In the case of PBA cards, who authorizes the police to seize lawfully possessed property? The State Legislature? The Police Commissioner? the PD Legal Dept?County Exscutive? The DA? Elliot Ness?

Or are you referring to the unwritten laws that cops only know about. The unwritten laws where cops can act anyway they please and deny later?

You're assuming that the cards are lasfully possessed.

In the case of PBA cards, who authorizes the police to seize lawfully possessed property? The State Legislature? The Police Commissioner? the PD Legal Dept?County Exscutive? The DA? Elliot Ness?

Or are you referring to the unwritten laws that cops only know about. The unwritten laws where cops can act anyway they please and deny later?

You're assuming that the cards are lawfully possessed.

[call the pba]

when in doubt call the pba in question, they'll always authorize the confiscation.

The pba issues cards to its members. these cards are pba property, and can be confiscated at any time unless you can prove you personally are a member of the pba

[pbamember]

We don't need a written law to say we can take a card from a motorist. The cards (as is printed on the back) are the PROPERTY OF THE PBA. All Police Officers are PBA members. When we confiscate a card, we are authorized by the association of which we are an active member to take the property. It's like a member of a moose lodge taking a membership card from a person who's not a member. The cards are issued by PBA members (the officers) to family or close friends with the understanding that at ANY time for ANY reason the card may be taken back by ANY officer (again, a PBA MEMBER) which places the card back in the posession of the PBA. Yes, each PBA is different but it is understood between PBA's that cards are treated universally which authorizes an officer from any agency to act upon a card from another agency. That's also why cops honor cards from different agencies and not just their own agency.
To sum up:(whew)
The card is ON LOAN to you,. It IS NOT your personal property and ANY POLICE OFFICER is authorized to seize any PBA card as an agent of the PBA. I really hope this helped some of you understand.

As long as the card does not have a name on it or has your name on it a PBA officer or any other PBA official MAY NOT take it from you as they see fit.

The warning on that card is meaningless. The card is considered a bearer instrument and belongs to who holds it.

[i beg to differ?]

Wrong as per NYS Penal Law, it is considered property, an officer can detain and investigate the person holding the card and arrest them if they are in possession of it unlawfully. I personally broke a repeat burg offender, when I pulled him over and he presented me a card that was proceeds from a burg 3 days prior. It was just a hunch, but checked with the detective handling that case, and it was part of the inventory of missing items. The bad guy was originally charged with crim. poss. 5th, THE PBA CARD. Brought into the squad where he sang on 4 seperate incidents.

[pbamember]

You're talking about a card that was stolen from someone else. I'm talking about the person holding it being lawfully given the card by a cop and authorized to posess the card. Once it's been stolen of course it's proceeds of a crime and that makes it a different issue. As far as a card given as I have stated, I stand by my previous post.

[about time!!]

[quote]Wrong as per NYS Penal Law, it is considered property, an officer can detain and investigate the person holding the card and arrest them if they are in possession of it unlawfully. I personally broke a repeat burg offender, when I pulled him over and he presented me a card that was proceeds from a burg 3 days prior. It was just a hunch, but checked with the detective handling that case, and it was part of the inventory of missing items. The bad guy was originally charged with crim. poss. 5th, THE PBA CARD. Brought into the squad where he sang on 4 seperate incidents

Thank You, its amazing how many people post about things they dont know anything about.
The cards are property of the PBA, they clearly state they may be rescinded at any time. Thats not a warning on the card that is a statement. If you look at your library card, child's bus pass it says the same thing

[quote]Wrong as per NYS Penal Law, it is considered property, an officer can detain and investigate the person holding the card and arrest them if they are in possession of it unlawfully. I personally broke a repeat burg offender, when I pulled him over and he presented me a card that was proceeds from a burg 3 days prior. It was just a hunch, but checked with the detective handling that case, and it was part of the inventory of missing items. The bad guy was originally charged with crim. poss. 5th, THE PBA CARD. Brought into the squad where he sang on 4 seperate incidents

Thank You, its amazing how many people post about things they dont know anything about.
The cards are property of the PBA, they clearly state they may be rescinded at any time. Thats not a warning on the card that is a statement. If you look at your library card, child's bus pass it says the same thing


Again partially wrong - A PBA card that does not have the recipients name on it has no identifying characteristics that would classify it as property. If the card was blank it belongs to who has it in their hands. If the card has a recipients name on it then its a different story, but next time read the whole post.

Again under the law, without a name on it, its a bearer instrument and cant be taken.

[JimJam]

Police CAN take your PBA cards. It's the same as if you put your spouse's plates on your car. Police can take them from you to in that case. They are "your" plates, but they BELONG to the DMV. If an officer takes your PBA card, call the PBA about getting it back. It's the PBA property the same as plates are DMV property. Check with the PBA about their policy. Your statement that it's the holder's property sounds like some bad advise that a lawyer told you.

Police CAN take your PBA cards. It's the same as if you put your spouse's plates on your car. Police can take them from you to in that case. They are "your" plates, but they BELONG to the DMV. If an officer takes your PBA card, call the PBA about getting it back. It's the PBA property the same as plates are DMV property. Check with the PBA about their policy. Your statement that it's the holder's property sounds like some bad advise that a lawyer told you.

Actually thats probably the worst analogy ever possible. the plates are registered to a specific car. Thats why you cant just move them from car to car. Not because they belong to the DMV. You do not understand the references to registered items. Like I have said that would equate to the card having your name on it and me trying to use it.

Please get your analogies correct next time

[no such law]

Again partially wrong - A PBA card that does not have the recipients name on it has no identifying characteristics that would classify it as property. If the card was blank it belongs to who has it in their hands. If the card has a recipients name on it then its a different story, but next time read the whole post
Are you referring to a name printed on the card by the PBA?
Again under the law, without a name on it, its a bearer instrument and cant be taken
Wrong under the law it is property of the body issuing it. That is clearly stated as the PBA on the card. If PBA card # 0001 from NYPD was stolen from the PBA prior to it being issued and it wasnt signed, it is still a Petit Larceny same as if it was issued to a officer and stolen prior to being signed.

[ACLU 1]

Again partially wrong - A PBA card that does not have the recipients name on it has no identifying characteristics that would classify it as property. If the card was blank it belongs to who has it in their hands. If the card has a recipients name on it then its a different story, but next time read the whole post
Are you referring to a name printed on the card by the PBA?
Again under the law, without a name on it, its a bearer instrument and cant be taken
Wrong under the law it is property of the body issuing it. That is clearly stated as the PBA on the card. If PBA card # 0001 from NYPD was stolen from the PBA prior to it being issued and it wasnt signed, it is still a Petit Larceny same as if it was issued to a officer and stolen prior to being signed.


NYPD PBA cards dont have card numbers on them. So it would be quite difficult to tell if one was stolen from a person.

Stolen prior to cards being issued would be easy to identify as it would be the only card out there

SO again wrong. This is why cops have their cases thrown out they dont know the law

[notwrong]

The cards with serial numbers was just to simplify the issue. The point is quite obvious, the cards are property of the pba whether assigned to a officer or not. period.
SO again wrong. This is why cops have their cases thrown out they dont know the law
You still havent explained what law you are referring to.
Stolen prior to cards being issued
what does that mean?

[please if you could]

Point out in the Penal Law where it says property;Again under the law, without a name on it, its a bearer instrument and cant be taken

[ACLU 1]

The cards with serial numbers was just to simplify the issue. The point is quite obvious, the cards are property of the pba whether assigned to a officer or not. period.
SO again wrong. This is why cops have their cases thrown out they dont know the law
You still havent explained what law you are referring to.
Stolen prior to cards being issued
what does that mean?

As cards dont have serial numbers it doesnt simplify the issue at all - actually it just proves my point even more.

The law over bearer type instruments - which is what a PBA card (without a name written on it ) is.

[go ahead im waiting]

The law over bearer type instruments - which is what a PBA card (without a name written on it ) is.
Well what is it.
A card with no name on it is property of the issuer, whether a bank, library or in this case the pba. When I find such a card I do a quick check with the issuer, whatever pba that is, as it quite possibly is stolen, take the person's name and address, confiscate the card and forward it to the pba in question, if by chance there is a report of a stolen, unsigned card, with for example a imprinted badge number I will detain the person and investigate further, and if possible arrest for cpsp.

[SHUTZHUND]

Brother, this twit is baiting you, there is no such thing as a bearer's instrument law. Just take the card and write him a four pack.

The law over bearer type instruments - which is what a PBA card (without a name written on it ) is.
Well what is it.
A card with no name on it is property of the issuer, whether a bank, library or in this case the pba. When I find such a card I do a quick check with the issuer, whatever pba that is, as it quite possibly is stolen, take the person's name and address, confiscate the card and forward it to the pba in question, if by chance there is a report of a stolen, unsigned card, with for example a imprinted badge number I will detain the person and investigate further, and if possible arrest for cpsp.

Again how bad are your analogies, banks and libraries do not issue cards without names on them. Regardless what bank you deal with your name is on your ATM card. Your name will also be on your library card or the coding associates it with a specific account name.

So any cards from these authorities wothout a name or account on them are obviously stolen.

When the PBA issues cards it does not put the name of the person getting them on it. That is the individual cops responsibility. So again they are not registered instruments but bearer instruments like a movie ticket. Once a name goes on it it becomes a registered instrument.

[JimJam]

The point of the analogy in my prior post was that the plates are "yours" but they "belong" to the DMV. With PBA cards, it's the same. It doesn't matter if they are signed, unsigned, have the bearer's name on them, or don't have the bearer's name on them. They belong to the PBA in Suffolk County. It's printed on each card.( I can't speak for Nassau or NYC. Maybe someone form those jurisdictions can help you on that.) If an officer takes your card, call the PBA and complain- see what they say. Or, ask the officer if instead of taking your card, he would issue you a ticket.

[exactly!!]

Again how bad are your analogies, banks and libraries do not issue cards without names on them. Regardless what bank you deal with your name is on your ATM card. Your name will also be on your library card or the coding associates it with a specific account name.

So any cards from these authorities wothout a name or account on them are obviously stolen.

When the PBA issues cards it does not put the name of the person getting them on it. That is the individual cops responsibility. So again they are not registered
exactly that was my point as far as bank cards.
pba cards do come with badge #s or spousal identification
as far as movie tickets, do you think if someone steals yours, you call the police, and state that mr soandso stole them, he wont go to jail?
there is no law fro bearers instrument

The point of the analogy in my prior post was that the plates are "yours" but they "belong" to the DMV. With PBA cards, it's the same. It doesn't matter if they are signed, unsigned, have the bearer's name on them, or don't have the bearer's name on them. They belong to the PBA in Suffolk County. It's printed on each card.( I can't speak for Nassau or NYC. Maybe someone form those jurisdictions can help you on that.) If an officer takes your card, call the PBA and complain- see what they say. Or, ask the officer if instead of taking your card, he would issue you a ticket.

Your analogy in the prior post was useless with regard to license plates you are comparing apples to oranges.

Without any name on the PBA card it belongs to who holds it (dont worry about asking the PBA ask a judge instead)

With a name on the card, it belongs to that person only.

[movie tickets]

so if someone stole your movie tickets, and you called the police, you dont think he would get locked up because your name isnt on the ticket

Again how bad are your analogies, banks and libraries do not issue cards without names on them. Regardless what bank you deal with your name is on your ATM card. Your name will also be on your library card or the coding associates it with a specific account name.

So any cards from these authorities wothout a name or account on them are obviously stolen.

When the PBA issues cards it does not put the name of the person getting them on it. That is the individual cops responsibility. So again they are not registered
exactly that was my point as far as bank cards.
pba cards do come with badge #s or spousal identification
as far as movie tickets, do you think if someone steals yours, you call the police, and state that mr soandso stole them, he wont go to jail?
there is no law fro bearers instrument


Exactly wrong again

If you drop your movie ticket in the parking lot and I walk by later and pick it up - guess who gets in to the movie -me not you and try proving it was stolen.

[how it works]

you call the police and state someone stole your movie tickets. you sign a statement stating he stole them. he goes to jail.
if you lost them they fall under the personal property law, not the penal law

you call the police and state someone stole your movie tickets. you sign a statement stating he stole them. he goes to jail.
if you lost them they fall under the personal property law, not the penal law


Heres how it works

You drop your movie icket in the parking lot and I pick it up its now mine and not yours and I go to the movie you are out of luck (no name on it)

You drop your ATM card in the parking lot and I use it (name on card) I get arrested and you get your stuff back

Theres the simple difference between a bearer document and a registered one

Mayne you should understand the law before you try to enforce it.

[bearers instrument law]

dont exist.
if you have unsigned pba cards or signed they are property of the pba. period. any sworn officer has the right to confiscate them. period. nothing you can do about it.period.

dont exist.
if you have unsigned pba cards or signed they are property of the pba. period. any sworn officer has the right to confiscate them. period. nothing you can do about it.period.


Again wrong - they belong to who holds them regardless of what they say on the card - its a false warning

dont exist.
if you have unsigned pba cards or signed they are property of the pba. period. any sworn officer has the right to confiscate them. period. nothing you can do about it.period.

if you think a bearer instrument law doesnt exist read the back of your next lottery ticket sometime - who holds it gets payment

[JImJam]

The cards are "issued". Look up what issued means. For example, when a police officer is hired, he is "issued"certain equipment. It's HIS, but he doesn't OWN it. And at some point, the dept. gets it back. PBA cards are "issued" by it's members to non-members, so at the very least, it belongs to the member who "issued " it to you. If a P.O. take your card, call the member who gave it to you. If's he's worth anything, you won't get another one. And if you're so worried about your card being taken, STOP BREAKING THE LAW!

The cards are "issued". Look up what issued means. For example, when a police officer is hired, he is "issued"certain equipment. It's HIS, but he doesn't OWN it. And at some point, the dept. gets it back. PBA cards are "issued" by it's members to non-members, so at the very least, it belongs to the member who "issued " it to you. If a P.O. take your card, call the member who gave it to you. If's he's worth anything, you won't get another one. And if you're so worried about your card being taken, STOP BREAKING THE LAW!

The cards are issued to police officers and given by police officers to who ever they want.

Issuing requires documentation of who gets it

You are issued a ticket

[how it works]

yes i said that. if you find the tickets they actually fall under the personal property law of new york state. if you admit to the officer that you found them you must turn them in to the movie theater. of course someone nit-picky like yourself will point out that no one would admit to it.
if i receive a 911 call and the caller states you stole the tickets, and is willing to sign a statement against you, you will be locked up for petit larceny.
enough with know the law stuff mr bearers instrument law kid

yes i said that. if you find the tickets they actually fall under the personal property law of new york state. if you admit to the officer that you found them you must turn them in to the movie theater. of course someone nit-picky like yourself will point out that no one would admit to it.
if i receive a 911 call and the caller states you stole the tickets, and is willing to sign a statement against you, you will be locked up for petit larceny.
enough with know the law stuff mr bearers instrument law kid

Yes that would be the case if it was tolen

but if you lost your ticket you would have no idea who picked it up so I doubt at that point the officer will arrest everyone in the movie theater

Again wrong

[personal property law]

as provided in subdivision five of section two hundred
fifty-six of this chapter or as otherwise prescribed pursuant to section
two hundred fifty of the general municipal law, any person who finds an
instrument or comes into possession of an instrument with knowledge that
it has been found shall, within ten days after the finding or
acquisition of possession thereof, either return it to a person entitled
thereto or report the finding or acquisition of possession and deposit
the instrument in a police station or police headquarters, as provided
in subdivision one of this section, as if such instrument were lost
Except as provided in subdivision four of this section, any person
who shall refuse or wilfully neglect to comply with the provisions of
subdivision one or subdivision two of this section shall be guilty of a
misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of
not more than one hundred dollars or imprisonment not exceeding six
months or both

[JimJam]

Issuing does not require documentation. Police are issued field reports to document calls. These field reports are not documented when they are issued. Wrong again, Guest.

[avoiding the issue]

if someone tells me as a police officer that you stole their tickets, sign a statement stating you stole the ticket you are going to jail.
not everyone in the theater just the person identified as the suspect.

[smd423]

Regardless of the recipient's name being written on the back of the PBA card it is still the property of the PBA issuing the card. Consider it a loaned item issued to the person, such as our LIRR train passes. Even though they have out names on them they are subject to being confiscated by ANY employee of the MTA. Same with the PBA card, has your name on it, but being the property of the PBA it is subject to confiscation by ANY member of the PBA. Members of other PBA's may also confiscate the card under the understood agreement that the card will be forwarded back to the PBA that issued it. With your posession of the card you implicitly agree to not abuse or misuse the card, and in doing so forfit your right to posession of the card. As far as the PBA cards that state "Nurse", "US ARMY", "PBA" or anything else other than the member of services shield number I would ask for much more information regarding who gave it to you in order to find out why you had it and if you were supposed to, or if you bought it on E-Bay. Remember if an officer is considering taking the PBA card it is usually because you were doing something that seriously violated the VTL or was in serious risk of causing injury to someone, most officers wouldn't think of taking your card just for the hell of it. If you argue that hard about being cut some slack and only having your card confiscated consider the officer may allow you to keep the card and issue you the numerous summonses you deserved or maybe youll wind up with an arrest for reckless driving.

[my pba cards]

Again wrong - they belong to who holds them regardless of what they say on the card - its a false warning
how when we confiscate them all the time? lol

if someone tells me as a police officer that you stole their tickets, sign a statement stating you stole the ticket you are going to jail.
not everyone in the theater just the person identified as the suspect.

Yes how dumb are you we agreed that is the point if it was stolen

Not lost

So if you lie to the cop that your tickets were stolen you are going to jail for filing a wrong police report

But if you tell the cop you lost your ticket -what does he say to you then

Regardless of the recipient's name being written on the back of the PBA card it is still the property of the PBA issuing the card. Consider it a loaned item issued to the person, such as our LIRR train passes. Even though they have out names on them they are subject to being confiscated by ANY employee of the MTA. Same with the PBA card, has your name on it, but being the property of the PBA it is subject to confiscation by ANY member of the PBA. Members of other PBA's may also confiscate the card under the understood agreement that the card will be forwarded back to the PBA that issued it. With your posession of the card you implicitly agree to not abuse or misuse the card, and in doing so forfit your right to posession of the card. As far as the PBA cards that state "Nurse", "US ARMY", "PBA" or anything else other than the member of services shield number I would ask for much more information regarding who gave it to you in order to find out why you had it and if you were supposed to, or if you bought it on E-Bay. Remember if an officer is considering taking the PBA card it is usually because you were doing something that seriously violated the VTL or was in serious risk of causing injury to someone, most officers wouldn't think of taking your card just for the hell of it. If you argue that hard about being cut some slack and only having your card confiscated consider the officer may allow you to keep the card and issue you the numerous summonses you deserved or maybe youll wind up with an arrest for reckless driving.


Again apples and oranges one is a card with a name on it and one is a card without a name

Regardless of the recipient's name being written on the back of the PBA card it is still the property of the PBA issuing the card. Consider it a loaned item issued to the person, such as our LIRR train passes. Even though they have out names on them they are subject to being confiscated by ANY employee of the MTA. Same with the PBA card, has your name on it, but being the property of the PBA it is subject to confiscation by ANY member of the PBA. Members of other PBA's may also confiscate the card under the understood agreement that the card will be forwarded back to the PBA that issued it. With your posession of the card you implicitly agree to not abuse or misuse the card, and in doing so forfit your right to posession of the card. As far as the PBA cards that state "Nurse", "US ARMY", "PBA" or anything else other than the member of services shield number I would ask for much more information regarding who gave it to you in order to find out why you had it and if you were supposed to, or if you bought it on E-Bay. Remember if an officer is considering taking the PBA card it is usually because you were doing something that seriously violated the VTL or was in serious risk of causing injury to someone, most officers wouldn't think of taking your card just for the hell of it. If you argue that hard about being cut some slack and only having your card confiscated consider the officer may allow you to keep the card and issue you the numerous summonses you deserved or maybe youll wind up with an arrest for reckless driving.

YEs you can ask me who gave it to me and as most officers write their name and badge number on it I can easily tell you who gave it to me

Doesnt really help your argument at all

[JimJam]

The card is the PBA property. Your argument is that it is yours. Guest, to save yourself all of this typing, call the PBA office and ask. (signed, unsigned, your name on it, whatever the scenario) The number is in the phone book.

Issuing does not require documentation. Police are issued field reports to document calls. These field reports are not documented when they are issued. Wrong again, Guest.

Police are given field reports

Police are issued equipement that is registered to them

How wrong can you always be

[not really!!!]

Yes how dumb are you we agreed that is the point if it was stolen

Not lost

So if you lie to the cop that your tickets were stolen you are going to jail for filing a wrong police report
you are avoiding the issue,if tickets without a name on it are stolen, the person found in possession of them is in fact guilty of petit larceny. the whole instrument bearers non-law doesnt exist.
likewise if i respond to the movie theater where someone reports observing that soandso picked up tickets that they observed mr dweeb boy(no offense) drop stopped both of them and soandso is refusing to turn over the tickets he is violating 252 sub2 0f the personal property law and is facing up to 6 months in jail.
so mr madeuplaw instrument bearerslaw please stop making up your own laws and rules and then trying to call other people dumb, because you are ignorant of real laws

The card is the PBA property. Your argument is that it is yours. Guest, to save yourself all of this typing, call the PBA office and ask. (signed, unsigned, your name on it, whatever the scenario) The number is in the phone book.


Of course the PBA is going to say its theirs that is their argument just like this is mine.

Of course if you called a judge you would get my answer and not theirs - cgo ahead call the courts the number is in the phone book

[JimJam]

Police are "given" field reports? So they can do whatever they want with them?! Wow! What else does the dept. "give" out?

[carebear]

dont need to call anyone, i'll just keep taking them from know it alls like yourself, assuming you even have 1, not much you can do is there?

dont need to call anyone, i'll just keep taking them from know it alls like yourself, assuming you even have 1, not much you can do is there?

Actually I get quite the stack of them from cops willing to sell them

Not that hard to get

[JimJam]

As a matter of fact, I have a judge in the family. Her answer was that it's up to the PBA what their policy is when issuing them. Sounds like you only checked with a lawyer.

Police are "given" field reports? So they can do whatever they want with them?! Wow! What else does the dept. "give" out?

Can they do anythig they want with them - yes they can but there is an implication to each choice they make some good some bad

[no such thing]

instrument bearers law
just spent last 5 minutes looking for this, dont exist, i think guest is spending wat too much time on the computer, hey mom cant you put blues clues on for him?

[my pba cards]

Actually I get quite the stack of them from cops willing to sell them

Not that hard to get
believe me i know, my whole basement wall is covered in them, keep buying them on e-bay, i'd like to cover the other wall before i retire

instrument bearers law
just spent last 5 minutes looking for this, dont exist, i think guest is spending wat too much time on the computer, hey mom cant you put blues clues on for him?


Boy are you clueless

items can be classified as bearer such as movie tickets or bearer bonds, lottery tickets, store gift cards or cash

or items are registered such as stocks, savings bonds and credit cards

Actually I get quite the stack of them from cops willing to sell them

Not that hard to get
believe me i know, my whole basement wall is covered in them, keep buying them on e-bay, i'd like to cover the other wall before i retire

Who buys them on Ebay thats a rip-off - just go to the local precint after they are issued and cops are more than willing to sell them for cheap.

[bearers instrument laws]

items can be classified as bearer such as movie tickets or bearer bonds, lottery tickets, store gift cards or cash

or items are registered such as stocks, savings bonds and credit cards
that is called personal property, covered by the nys personal property law, you should really read up on these matters before you go off on people who actually know about these things, you got about 6 cops sitting here on their breaks laughing their butts off.

[excellent]

Who buys them on Ebay thats a rip-off - just go to the local precint after they are issued and cops are more than willing to sell them for cheap.
keep buying them, i'llkeep taking them for free.

[SHUTZHUND]

that is called personal property, covered by the nys personal property law, you should really read up on these matters before you go off on people who actually know about
leave this moron be, hes great entertainment.

items can be classified as bearer such as movie tickets or bearer bonds, lottery tickets, store gift cards or cash

or items are registered such as stocks, savings bonds and credit cards
that is called personal property, covered by the nys personal property law, you should really read up on these matters before you go off on people who actually know about these things, you got about 6 cops sitting here on their breaks laughing their butts off.

Actually six cops who dont know what they are doing and still dont understand the difference between bearer and registered

[Silly Boy]

Bearer instruments/documents (whatever the case) requires that fact to be written on it.

[Silly Boy]

Look it up. It's right next to Criminal Mopery 1st Degree :D

[still laughing at you]

the difference between bearer and registered
which has absolutely nothing to do with pba cards or the personal property law

Bearer instruments/documents (whatever the case) requires that fact to be written on it.


How silly you are

cash is a bearer instrument please show me where its written on it

WRONG AGAIN

Thats why you cops cant get things right, you dont understand the law

[Silly Boy]

I meant Aggravated Criminal Mopery 1st Degree.

the difference between bearer and registered
which has absolutely nothing to do with pba cards or the personal property law

Which has everything to do with PBA cards and the personal property law

What you dont realize is the wording on the card is meaningless

Thats the funny part the PBA has you brainwashed

[still laughing!!]

Thats why you cops cant get things right, you dont understand the law
sorry we dont make it up as we go along.
basically in your world whatever you do is good, and everyone else is wrong

[Silly Boy]

Hey Guest, who owns your drivers license?

[JimJam]

Oh no, don't get him started

[my pba cards]

What you dont realize is the wording on the card is meaningless
right because if i want to take it, its mine.nothing you can do

What you dont realize is the wording on the card is meaningless
right because if i want to take it, its mine.nothing you can do

Plenty I can do

But honestly the cost and effort isnt worth it

[finally reality]

Plenty I can do

But honestly the cost and effort isnt worth
right why spend the night in jail?

Hey Guest, who owns your drivers license?

Simple

I own actual document - state issues it - state issues the priviledge to drive

Heres another way to look at it If you are really a cop

When you stop a person just because they have a license does that make it valid - no of course not you have to check it to see if the priviledge to drive has been revoked. Just having the physical paper of a license does not give you the legal ability to drive

[JimJam]

Obviously Guest is right. Whatever is written on the card doesn't mean a thing. Just like when you see "STOP" or "ONE WAY" written on a sign.

Plenty I can do

But honestly the cost and effort isnt worth
right why spend the night in jail?

Actaully pretty dumbb of you to think it would involve physically fighting you for it

I could take you to court over it , but again the effort and cost arent worth it when they are cheap enough to get

Obviously Guest is right. Whatever is written on the card doesn't mean a thing. Just like when you see "STOP" or "ONE WAY" written on a sign.


Again your analogies are so ridiculous

Those signs have legally enforceable meanings unlike the PBA card

[340a]

right and when you are revoked and i write you a summons for above section for failing to turn in your license, you no longer own it. its MINE

[Silly Boy]

Right, so when a cop takes your PBA card, he has to check to make sure it's okay that you possess it. So he confiscates it. If all turns out OK, you can get it back from the PBA office or your good buddy.

[Actaully]

you are obsessed with proving you are smarter than us, where did i say anything about fighting?
you dont want to turn over the card i'll lock you up. thentake it at the station
Actaully pretty dumbb of you to think it would involve physically fighting you for it

ps you make a lot of grammatical errors for someone so critical of intellect Actaully

right and when you are revoked and i write you a summons for above section for failing to turn in your license, you no longer own it. its MINE

Wrong when the DMV revokes your dring priviledge they note it in the computer which police check when you are pulled over. The DMV can revoke your driving priviledge for numerous reasons and you still hold on to the actual license.

you are obsessed with proving you are smarter than us, where did i say anything about fighting?
you dont want to turn over the card i'll lock you up. thentake it at the station
Actaully pretty dumbb of you to think it would involve physically fighting you for it

ps you make a lot of grammatical errors for someone so critical of intellect Actaully

Actually I never said anything about failing to turn it over you did

You make plenty of wrong assumptions in your argument

[Actaully]

priviledge, precint,equipement ,cgo,anythig,tolen ,Mayne,dumbb

[Actaully]

then there wouldnt be a problem, i would have the card, you wouldnt be in jail, end of story.

[JimJam]

Wrong again, Guest. It's a misdemeanor to be in possession of a revoked license. 510.7 VTL. You have to give it back. It's not your property.

[340a]

Wrong when the DMV revokes your dring priviledge they note it in the computer which police check when you are pulled over. The DMV can revoke your driving priviledge for numerous reasons and you still hold on to the actual license
wrong; section 340a of the vehicle and traffic law is a misdemeanor not to rescind license to nearest dmv or police official at the time your license is suspended, you dumb little boy, look it up.

then there wouldnt be a problem, i would have the card, you wouldnt be in jail, end of story.

Pretty funny when you would be sued for false arrest - end of story

Btw what was I arrested for as I had obviously given you the card with my license to try to get out of some kind of moving violation.

[Silly Boy]

Let's face it everyone. Guest is obviously not too bright.

[340a]

i forgot 510, also 355. that goes for your plates too, gee for someone soooooo smart, you really dont have a clue as to what you are talking about.

Wrong again, Guest. It's a misdemeanor to be in possession of a revoked license. 510.7 VTL. You have to give it back. It's not your property.

Wrong again I don't have to give it back - because we are talking about the actual paper document.

Again another wrong assumption - if a person decides to no longer renew their license and no longer drives they dont have to turn in anything. They keep the document - they own it

i forgot 510, also 355. that goes for your plates too, gee for someone soooooo smart, you really dont have a clue as to what you are talking about.

Actually you are pretty wrong on that one as the plate discussion was ended a long time ago.

If it is such a crime to posses these plates how come all the establisments that hang license plates on the wall arent fined???

[340a]

Pretty funny when you would be sued for false arrest - end of story

Btw what was I arrested for as I had obviously given you the card with my license to try to get out of some kind of moving violation
if i pulled you over in our little pretend scenario, whatever the reason for the traffic stop is what i arrest you for. you do understand mr notverysmart that a simplified information is issued for a violation at a officers discretion in place of a custodial arrest?

[JimJam]

Yes, Guest. You do have to turn in the paper document. Also, if you lose (can't find it) you license, get another one, the find the original, you have to give one back. You can not be in possession of 2 licenses (the paper document)

Let's face it everyone. Guest is obviously not too bright.

The funny part actually is for supposed cops how little you know about actual law or how little you read in these arguments.

But thats why its a civil service job. Cant make it hard to get

[340a]

Wrong again I don't have to give it back - because we are talking about the actual paper document.

Again another wrong assumption - if a person decides to no longer renew their license and no longer drives they dont have to turn in anything. They keep the document - they own it



Back to top



Guest
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:28 pm










340a wrote:
i forgot 510, also 355. that goes for your plates too, gee for someone soooooo smart, you really dont have a clue as to what you are talking about.


Actually you are pretty wrong on that one as the plate discussion was ended a long time ago.

If it is such a crime to posses these plates how come all the establisments that hang license plates on the wall arent fined???
hello dummy we are talking about suspended or revoked licenses or plates, you can be arrested for that.

[340a]

340. Surrender of license and evidences of registration. (a) Any
person whose operator's or chauffeur's license or registration
certificates or registration plates have been suspended as provided in
this article and have not been reinstated shall immediately return every
such license, registration certificate and registration plates held by
such person to the commissioner. Any person wilfully failing to comply
with this requirement is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) The commissioner is hereby authorized to take possession of any
license, registration certificate or registration plates upon the
suspension thereof under the provisions of this article or to direct any
peace officer, acting pursuant to his special duties or police officer
to take possession thereof and to return the same to the office of the
commissioner.

When you stop a person just because they have a license does that make it valid - no of course not you have to check it to see if the priviledge to drive has been revoked. Just having the physical paper of a license does not give you the legal ability to drive

DUH!!!

[340a]

still your license mrknowmorethaneveryone? then why do you have to give it up when its suspended? c'mon we need more laughs lets hear your version of the law.

still your license mrknowmorethaneveryone? then why do you have to give it up when its suspended? c'mon we need more laughs lets hear your version of the law.

You dont have to give it up when its suspended

Let me ask you Mr I think I am a cop have you ever stopped a person who had the physical license but it was suspended?

Theres your answer

still your license mrknowmorethaneveryone? then why do you have to give it up when its suspended? c'mon we need more laughs lets hear your version of the law.

What about the person who has decided to stop driving and no longer renews their license - please tell me what crime are they guilty of.

[i love how dumb you are]

You dont have to give it up when its suspended
340. Surrender of license and evidences of registration. (a) Any
person whose operator's or chauffeur's license or registration
certificates or registration plates have been suspended as provided in
this article and have not been reinstated shall immediately return every
such license, registration certificate and registration plates held by
such person to the commissioner. Any person wilfully failing to comply
with this requirement is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) The commissioner is hereby authorized to take possession of any
license, registration certificate or registration plates upon the
suspension thereof under the provisions of this article or to direct any
peace officer, acting pursuant to his special duties or police officer
to take possession thereof and to return the same to the office of the
commissioner.

you are really dumb not only do you have to give it up if you dont you are facing misdemeanor jail time

[340a]

Let me ask you Mr I think I am a cop have you ever stopped a person who had the physical license but it was suspended?
yes about 5 times a month, and i promptly wrote him 511.1.a and 340a then confiscated his license.,impounded his car.
if the registration is suspended then its 512 for the plates and 340a confiscate the plates impound the car.
if the license is expired i would write him 509.1 unlicensed and no i wouldnt take the license
you dummy

I'M sorry I started this. I did't mean for so many people to waste their day about something so trivial. But then again...SMALL THINGS AMUSE SMALL MINDS!!! . The best thing to do is to
make an inquiry and write the ticket. Why bother arguing about it here.

You dont have to give it up when its suspended
340. Surrender of license and evidences of registration. (a) Any
person whose operator's or chauffeur's license or registration
certificates or registration plates have been suspended as provided in
this article and have not been reinstated shall immediately return every
such license, registration certificate and registration plates held by
such person to the commissioner. Any person wilfully failing to comply
with this requirement is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) The commissioner is hereby authorized to take possession of any
license, registration certificate or registration plates upon the
suspension thereof under the provisions of this article or to direct any
peace officer, acting pursuant to his special duties or police officer
to take possession thereof and to return the same to the office of the
commissioner.

you are really dumb not only do you have to give it up if you dont you are facing misdemeanor jail time

BTW how many people who dont give up plates on cars they no longer register are arrested and jailed on misdemeanor offenses

Let me ask you Mr I think I am a cop have you ever stopped a person who had the physical license but it was suspended?
yes about 5 times a month, and i promptly wrote him 511.1.a and 340a then confiscated his license.,impounded his car.
if the registration is suspended then its 512 for the plates and 340a confiscate the plates impound the car.
if the license is expired i would write him 509.1 unlicensed and no i wouldnt take the license
you dummy

SO you wouldnt take the license theres your answer as to who it belongs too

[340a]

What about the person who has decided to stop driving and no longer renews their license - please tell me what crime are they guilty of.
as long as we are talking about people driving a car, right?
expired license 509.1
let me back up and explain, if someone is driving you get those summons, only parker is the 512 for suspended plates, but if someone shows me their license say at the station and it comes up suspended, i can confiscate the license and return the property to dmv. as would happen if you walked into court for a traffic summons, the judge would have the clerk run the license and take it.

What about the person who has decided to stop driving and no longer renews their license - please tell me what crime are they guilty of.
as long as we are talking about people driving a car, right?
expired license 509.1
let me back up and explain, if someone is driving you get those summons, only parker is the 512 for suspended plates, but if someone shows me their license say at the station and it comes up suspended, i can confiscate the license and return the property to dmv. as would happen if you walked into court for a traffic summons, the judge would have the clerk run the license and take it.

You still didnt answer the question about not renewing the license and not driving - who gets to keep it

[wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!]

SO you wouldnt take the license theres your answer as to who it belongs too
only as a courtesy, if i wanted to bust chops i could take it.
BTW how many people who dont give up plates on cars they no longer register are arrested and jailed on misdemeanor offenses
you do understand im talking about SUSPENDED registrations, right?

SO you wouldnt take the license theres your answer as to who it belongs too
only as a courtesy, if i wanted to bust chops i could take it.
BTW how many people who dont give up plates on cars they no longer register are arrested and jailed on misdemeanor offenses
you do understand im talking about SUSPENDED registrations, right?

You do understand the discussion started over who owns the documents - started with PBA cards and went to licenses and plates

So suspended is only part of the discussion. Also have to take into account no-suspended items to decide who owns them.

[huh?????????????]

So suspended is only part of the discussion. Also have to take into account no-suspended items to decide who owns them.

please talk english so we can make sense of you.

[vtl]

Lets explain this to nitwitty so he can understand.
driving in new york state is a privilege the state extends to its residents. if you obey the laws you have unlimited use of the road. when you violate it the state imposes fines and restrictions on your use of its roads. if you are a really bad boy the state will take your use of the road away.

Lets explain this to nitwitty so he can understand.
driving in new york state is a privilege the state extends to its residents. if you obey the laws you have unlimited use of the road. when you violate it the state imposes fines and restrictions on your use of its roads. if you are a really bad boy the state will take your use of the road away.

Again nothing to do with the discussion

[vtl]

its all to do with who owns your license. the state.

its all to do with who owns your license. the state.

The state owns and controls the priviledge to drive. The person owns the document

[340a]

until the state takes your driving privilege away, then you lose the document, have to get the NONDRIVING ID card

Obviously there are two different opinions here. It sound like one of the opinions is from an "attorney type person" if you get my drift.

[safety hearing]

Dont forget a officer can request a safety hearing in the case of a reckless driver or a repeat offender that can also revoke his driving privilege.
I also popped a guy last week for that new social security suspension, so yet another way the government controls your privilege to drive.

[bad daddy]

Ever notice how gun-ho the fem-cops are with the suspensions for child support?
yeesh

[interpretation]

Obviously there are two different opinions here. It sound like one of the opinions is from an "attorney type person" if you get my drift.

It all in how you interpret the law. A buddy of mine, an attorney, was adamant about how the cell phone law reads in the vtl(1225c2a). He felt that if he didnt have the phone up to his face, the cop couldn't legally write him a ticket. (those were his words) Of course I disagreed. About a month later I was in court and watched as an attorney was questioning a cop about a cell phone ticket that his client had received.(Turns out that his client was his son who had to be admonished by the judge for being rude and making inappropriate comments) It was the attorneys interpretation that the officer illegally issued(again, his words. must be terminology he learned at Touro)this ticket because his son didn't have the phone against his face while he was talking. The judge found the kid guilty. The attorney was a little miffed.

It all in how you interpret the law

This attorney is probably the same guy that writes into newsday complaining how the cops arent enforcing the cell phone law.

[bad feeling]

I have a feeling that as of tonight a sh*tload of cops are going to be confiscating every plate, license, and pba card that looks at them the wrong way, and they'll be blaming guest from this site.

It all in how you interpret the law
Not really, its all how the cops and judges interpret the law, our opinion really doesnt matter

[DMV worker]

until the state takes your driving privilege away, then you lose the document, have to get the NONDRIVING ID card

If you voluntarily give up the priviledge to drive by not renewing your license you keep the document

It all in how you interpret the law
Not really, its all how the cops and judges interpret the law, our opinion really doesnt matter

Thank God for that

[peoples laws]

hey i kind of like some of these laws these wannabes are making up, i think the world would be much more interesting and i'd probably get to use my ''equipment'', if you know what i mean far more often.

[Blue Blooded]

This whole thing has gotten ridiculous. If you feel the need to confiscate a PBA card then do it. The guy can go to the pct and cry and moan till he is blue in the face about the matter. We all know that we have every right to do so. The problem is that we have guys on the job that give a PBA card to everyone they have ever met in their lives. Those cards we receive are a reflection on us. If I stop a guy who drives like an idiot or pulls an attitude and he pulls a PBA card out, the first thing i wonder is who is the knucklehead that gave this guy a card. Please, be responsible when handing these cards out.

[SCPD 22]

This whole thing has gotten ridiculous. If you feel the need to confiscate a PBA card then do it. The guy can go to the pct and cry and moan till he is blue in the face about the matter. We all know that we have every right to do so. The problem is that we have guys on the job that give a PBA card to everyone they have ever met in their lives. Those cards we receive are a reflection on us. If I stop a guy who drives like an idiot or pulls an attitude and he pulls a PBA card out, the first thing i wonder is who is the knucklehead that gave this guy a card. Please, be responsible when handing these cards out.


And dont go selling them either

[Ms. Manners]

I'm talking about the person holding it being lawfully given the card by a cop and authorized to posess the card?

If I can go on Ebay and legally purchase a PBA card, why does it become illegal when I present it to a police officer?

If I legally purchase a PBA card via Ebay, what right, consistent with the law a officer swears to uphold, does a police officer have to seize property that I legally possess?

And, since I purchased it in a manner consistent with the law, why wouldn't I be "authorized" to possess the card?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10956&item=3954402666&rd=1

[Ms. Manners]

Wrong as per NYS Penal Law, it is considered property, an officer can detain and investigate the person holding the card and arrest them if they are in possession of it unlawfully.

Would you please tell us how this is relevant to the discussion at hand?

What does this have to do with a officer seizing a motorist's PBA card?

I luv the way you fella's twist and turn the original issue. Perhaps you do not realize that doing so is ill mannered and caddy.

[Ms. Manners]

We don't need a written law to say we can take a card from a motorist.

So what you are saying is that police officers can confiscate an American citizen's lawfully possessed private property, based on a ****unwrtten law****

Do you realize how preposterous that sounds? LOLOLOL...i'm still wiping tears of laughter after reading this.

The card is ON LOAN to you,. It IS NOT your personal property and ANY POLICE OFFICER is authorized to seize any PBA card as an agent of the PBA. I really hope this helped some of you understand.

If we can be serious for a moment. Whan a police officer takes his oath, does he swear to uphold the laws of his police union, or does he swear to enforce NYS laws?

If you believe a police officer has a sworn duty to enforce NYS laws, then would you please specifically quote which law a person is violating when they possess a typical PBA "get out of jail free" card?

[Ms. Manners]

This is the type of attitude that usually gets you a few tickets

Unfortuntely, quite frequently citizens who stand up to abusive and unprofessional cops find themselves facing an incensed creature with a badge who all to often personifies the John Gotti image.

[Ms. Manners]

If you feel the need to confiscate a PBA card then do it. The guy can go to the pct and cry and moan till he is blue in the face about the matter. We all know that we have every right to do so. .

Motorist detained for a traffic infraction: "Officer Smith, I respectfully decline to surrender my PBA card to you."

Investigating officer: < fill in the honest law-abiding officer's reply >

[pick and choose]

If I can go on Ebay and legally purchase a PBA card, why does it become illegal when I present it to a police officer?

Who said its illegal?
If we can be serious for a moment. Whan a police officer takes his oath, does he swear to uphold the laws of his police union, or does he swear to enforce NYS laws?

Would you please tell us how this is relevant to the discussion at hand?
please dont pick and choose exerpts from 5 plus pages of a discussion and pick them apart in an comical effort to sound smart

Motorist detained for a traffic infraction: "Officer Smith, I respectfully decline to surrender my PBA card to you."

Investigating officer: < fill in the honest law-abiding officer's reply >




2 hours later
ok heres your 15 summons, i apologize that i had to arrest you but i didnt have enough summons on hand to write every violation of the vtl i found on your vehicle, oh by the way while inventory went thru your possessions we found a pba card, it was confiscated,

[Ms. Manners]

I have a feeling that as of tonight a sh*tload of cops are going to be confiscating every plate, license, and pba card that looks at them the wrong way, and they'll be blaming guest from this site.

I have no plans to be detained by the police, but if I should be stopped and the officer decides he wants to seize my PBA card instead of simply honoring it or not honoring it, he is going to have to arrest me.

I'm not a cop fighter, I have manners...but I will not have my rights or property violated by a police officer, or any other agent for the government, who wished to invent his own rule of law.

If an officer wants my PBA card that badly he can turn my name over to the PBA and let their civil attorneys deal with me...in a court of law!!!!!!!!!

[Ms. Manners]

if i pulled you over in our little pretend scenario, whatever the reason for the traffic stop is what i arrest you for. you do understand mr notverysmart that a simplified information is issued for a violation at a officers discretion in place of a custodial arrest?

This was fun reading, but I'd like to know how it is relevant to a topic where the discussion is about police illegally seizing a PBA card that every motorist has every right to possess.

Don't blame the public for taking advantage of an unethical perk the police want to keep for themselves and their friends.

Also, i'd like to know if the benefits of carrying my PBA card are limited to traffic infractions?

[chatti-patti]

see prior post

[Ms. Manners]

right why spend the night in jail?

Because becoming a deduction on a abusive officers pay or pension stub is a great feeling.

[chatti-patti]

This was fun reading, but I'd like to know how it is relevant to a topic where the discussion is about police illegally seizing a PBA card that every motorist has every right to possess
cards are property of the pba, not you. who do you think the pba is going to listen to?

[chatti-patti]

Because becoming a deduction on a abusive officers pay or pension stub is a great feeling
Ah job security, its a great feeling

[Ms. Manners]

Same with the PBA card, has your name on it, but being the property of the PBA it is subject to confiscation by ANY member of the PBA.

Okay, I'll bite.

Lets say a police officer detains me for an equipment violation.
As I hand him my documents, I display the PBA card I carry and tell the officer it was given to me by a good friend. The officer informs me he is confiscating my PBA card and that I must surrender the card to him.

I refuse. What *****LAWFUL***** action can the officer take against me?

This was fun reading, but I'd like to know how it is relevant to a topic where the discussion is about police illegally seizing a PBA card that every motorist has every right to possess
cards are property of the pba, not you. who do you think the pba is going to listen to?

PBA has no say if it went that far - up to judge then

[Ms. Manners]

If an officer takes your card, call the PBA and complain- see what they say....

If a police officer takes any lawfully possessed property from me, including my unsigned, non-distinct PBA card, he better give me a receipt for my property or I am going straihgt to the district attorney's office and presenting evidence to have the officer arrested for grand larceny.

Also, i'd like to know if the benefits of carrying my PBA card are limited to traffic infractions
The pba card is not a get out of jail card free, losers who use it in such a manner get no courtesy whatsoever.
If you committ a crime, no cop is risking his job because you might know some cop, who probably is embarrassed to admit to it.

As I hand him my documents, I display the PBA card I carry and tell the officer it was given to me by a good friend. The officer informs me he is confiscating my PBA card and that I must surrender the card to him.


u already handed it to him

If a police officer takes any lawfully possessed property from me, including my unsigned, non-distinct PBA card, he better give me a receipt for my property or I am going straihgt to the district attorney's office and presenting evidence to have the officer arrested for grand larceny
wrong last time that happened the receipt was issued to the pba as it was their property, and the District attorney laughed really hard

[see prior post]

PBA has no say if it went that far - up to judge then

This was fun reading, but I'd like to know how it is relevant to a topic where the discussion is about police illegally seizing a PBA card that every motorist has every right to possess
again dont pick and choose from 5 pages of discussion to make your point

[Observer 78]

The funny part of this whole discussion is there would be no problem if the cops didn't give these cards out like candy to everyone they knew and every girl they try to pick up.

Maybe if the PBA limited the amount the cops got it would be easier to police. But with nearly 40,000 cops in the general area (NYC, NAssau, Suffolk, local units, Westcheter, Yonkers) there are probably a quarter of a million cards floating out there.

[beentheredonethat]

If I can go on Ebay and legally purchase a PBA card, why does it become illegal when I present it to a police officer?

If I legally purchase a PBA card via Ebay, what right, consistent with the law a officer swears to uphold, does a police officer have to seize property that I legally possess?

And, since I purchased it in a manner consistent with the law, why wouldn't I be "authorized" to possess the card?

you are holding pba property, please dont waste anymore time go read the last 7 pages went thru this already

The funny part of this whole discussion is there would be no problem if the cops didn't give these cards out like candy to everyone they knew and every girl they try to pick up.

Maybe if the PBA limited the amount the cops got it would be easier to police. But with nearly 40,000 cops in the general area (NYC, NAssau, Suffolk, local units, Westcheter, Yonkers) there are probably a quarter of a million cards floating out there.
Im from SCPD i get 5 cards a year, give one to my wife. Any more we have to buy. The problem is the poor souls trying to make ends meet because they are underpaid selling them and the fools in the street trying to use them like get out of jail free cards

The funny part of this whole discussion is there would be no problem if the cops didn't give these cards out like candy to everyone they knew and every girl they try to pick up.

Maybe if the PBA limited the amount the cops got it would be easier to police. But with nearly 40,000 cops in the general area (NYC, NAssau, Suffolk, local units, Westcheter, Yonkers) there are probably a quarter of a million cards floating out there.
Im from SCPD i get 5 cards a year, give one to my wife. Any more we have to buy. The problem is the poor souls trying to make ends meet because they are underpaid selling them and the fools in the street trying to use them like get out of jail free cards


Right if every cop out there gets 5 you are looking at nearly 200,000 before they start buying them. Not to mention how many of those little courtesty shields are also out there.

[SCPD 22]

If I can go on Ebay and legally purchase a PBA card, why does it become illegal when I present it to a police officer?

If I legally purchase a PBA card via Ebay, what right, consistent with the law a officer swears to uphold, does a police officer have to seize property that I legally possess?

And, since I purchased it in a manner consistent with the law, why wouldn't I be "authorized" to possess the card?

you are holding pba property, please dont waste anymore time go read the last 7 pages went thru this already


I think the final result was that they really aren't PBA property especially once they are bought and sold.

[save the drama]

Unfortuntely, quite frequently citizens who stand up to abusive and unprofessional cops find themselves facing an incensed creature with a badge who all to often personifies the John Gotti image
gotti killed people for fun, a cop that doesnt honor a pba card is writing you a summons, that you deserve, and you get to fight in court as any citizen in the U.S. would.
not quite the same

[wrong yet again]

I think the final result was that they really aren't PBA property especially once they are bought and sold
wrong the pba still holds them as property, we went thru this yesterday check the personal property law. the pba assigns no financial value to them, that is done by the card HOLDER. pba is still the property owner

[Louima]

Unfortuntely, quite frequently citizens who stand up to abusive and unprofessional cops find themselves facing an incensed creature with a badge who all to often personifies the John Gotti image
gotti killed people for fun, a cop that doesnt honor a pba card is writing you a summons, that you deserve, and you get to fight in court as any citizen in the U.S. would.
not quite the same

And cops don't beat and torture people for fun - thats a good one

[SCPD 78]

I think the final result was that they really aren't PBA property especially once they are bought and sold
wrong the pba still holds them as property, we went thru this yesterday check the personal property law. the pba assigns no financial value to them, that is done by the card HOLDER. pba is still the property owner

Wrong again once they are out of the PBA hands they are no longer PBA property - otherwise it would be illegal for them to be sold on EBAY

[ok patti.]

And cops don't beat and torture people for fun - thats a good one
i wish, i know a lot of the savages out there deserve it, but we realize if we let you guys alone you'll do it for us.

Wrong again once they are out of the PBA hands they are no longer PBA property - otherwise it would be illegal for them to be sold on EBAY
you can sell your house before the mortgage is paid off, but it still belongs to the bank

Wrong again once they are out of the PBA hands they are no longer PBA property - otherwise it would be illegal for them to be sold on EBAY
dont matter they are still pba property as they state and are subject to confiscation and return as per their policy, in the pba membership. are you a member?

[hes right.]

its like being a member of a club, as long as you pay your dues you are a member, but when you stop or quit you are expected to turn in your membership, the pba gives cards to their members, if they give them to non-members they dont become pba members.

Wrong again once they are out of the PBA hands they are no longer PBA property - otherwise it would be illegal for them to be sold on EBAY
you can sell your house before the mortgage is paid off, but it still belongs to the bank

But the bank takes their cut beofre you get yours

WRONG

Wrong again once they are out of the PBA hands they are no longer PBA property - otherwise it would be illegal for them to be sold on EBAY
dont matter they are still pba property as they state and are subject to confiscation and return as per their policy, in the pba membership. are you a member?

Who ever said we were PBA members

We were talking about illegally selling PBA property on EBAY

[priceofteainchina]

But the bank takes their cut beofre you get yours
and...?

Who ever said we were PBA members

We were talking about illegally selling PBA property on EBAY
you are
my point is that the pba owns the property and gives it to their members as members, the pba doesnt condone selling the cards. just because you hold property that you bought doesnt make you the owner, the owner is still the pba because of the agreement in with the union rank and file they made prior to assigning the cards

[Ms. Manners]

you are holding pba property, please dont waste anymore time go read the last 7 pages went thru this already

I read the previous pages and I still do not understand how why the PBA would either

1) sell PBA cards on Ebay...and then have their members confiscate them...lol...

or..

2) Allow some mutt from Croatia with an Ebay account to profit from the fine name of the PBA being defrauded?

I would like to see anyone quote and respond to the following:

If the PBA has total control over who possesses their cards, and the PBA has the power to authorize it's member police officers to seize PBA cards, why is some jamoke selling your cards on Ebay? Where is the injunction that prevents these sales?

You continue to maintain the PBA owns their cards, yet anyone in the entire friggin' world with a Paypal account can buy one. I'm sorry, this entire arguement regarding who owns PBA cards has been settled.

I think we can all agree that the person who purchases this card from a legitmate internet website is the sole owner of the card. When a motorist presents an officer with the card the officer can either honor or disregard the it..BUT, absent a lawful reason, he can in no way, shape or form, seize a person's private property.

Glad we got that out of the way.

Whats next?


I'd like to point out that most civilized people believe it is ill mannered to post on a message board using a wheel barrel full of different names. Only men with a hair on their ass have the guts to post using the same name over and over.

[Observer 44]

But the bank takes their cut beofre you get yours
and...?

So you are not selling it without their permission and knowledge

Not like with the PBA cards - so another bad analogy

Who ever said we were PBA members

We were talking about illegally selling PBA property on EBAY
you are
my point is that the pba owns the property and gives it to their members as members, the pba doesnt condone selling the cards. just because you hold property that you bought doesnt make you the owner, the owner is still the pba because of the agreement in with the union rank and file they made prior to assigning the cards

If the PBA still owns these cards then why dont they stop their sale on EBAY - because, according to you, someone is then selling property that doesn't belong to them.

[the pigs are right]

for once.
Heres what happened to me. 2 years ago i purchased a pba card and sticker for my vehicle. I drove with it for about 5 months when at a safety check point a cop stopped me. He said something about the sticker, I told him it was a friend of mine. He made me pull over. I showed him my license and pba card. He asked about hte pba card, told him the same. He went to his car wrote me a ticket for unauthorized polce insignia or something, advised me he was confiscating the card and sticker. That was the only summons I got. I went to court and lost.
My argument was that I purchased these legally and that was authorization enough.
The judge stated that purchasing them was one thing, for a collection lets say, but to display or present is a attempt to show an affiliation with the organization. Since there is a replica of a badge with the affiliated police organization on both the pba card and sticker, it was an attempt on my part to lay claim to being a member of that organization.
The judge, explained that the union gives its members cards to show their membership and it is a service they pay dues for. But if remains property of the union.
In a nutshell, you can buy them for collection purposes only. Once you display them IN PUBLIC, any sworn member of any law enforcement organization can require you to prove your membership and LAWFULLY confiscate the card or sticker.
Sadly the piggers got us beat on this one.

[chatti-patti]

I'd like to point out that most civilized people believe it is ill mannered to post on a message board using a wheel barrel full of different names. Only men with a hair on their ass have the guts to post using the same name over and over
oh so ms.manners is your real name?
ps unauthorized police insignia;
section 396 sub 2
use or display the words "Police Department,"
"Police" or any sign, lettering or device with the letters "P.D.," or
any other matter indicating ownership, possession or use by a police department.

[Observer 44]

for once.
Heres what happened to me. 2 years ago i purchased a pba card and sticker for my vehicle. I drove with it for about 5 months when at a safety check point a cop stopped me. He said something about the sticker, I told him it was a friend of mine. He made me pull over. I showed him my license and pba card. He asked about hte pba card, told him the same. He went to his car wrote me a ticket for unauthorized polce insignia or something, advised me he was confiscating the card and sticker. That was the only summons I got. I went to court and lost.
My argument was that I purchased these legally and that was authorization enough.
The judge stated that purchasing them was one thing, for a collection lets say, but to display or present is a attempt to show an affiliation with the organization. Since there is a replica of a badge with the affiliated police organization on both the pba card and sticker, it was an attempt on my part to lay claim to being a member of that organization.
The judge, explained that the union gives its members cards to show their membership and it is a service they pay dues for. But if remains property of the union.
In a nutshell, you can buy them for collection purposes only. Once you display them IN PUBLIC, any sworn member of any law enforcement organization can require you to prove your membership and LAWFULLY confiscate the card or sticker.
Sadly the piggers got us beat on this one.

So unless a cop gives ot to another cop they are a useless and basically illegal document to show at a traffic stop. Why wouldnt they say for collectors use only.

Sounds like you got hosed or you are lying to us about the facts of your case.

[oink-oink]

the pigs are right for once
ha, we always are right.
So unless a cop gives ot to another cop they are a useless and basically illegal document to show at a traffic stop. Why wouldnt they say for collectors use only.

The original idea is to identify family members and utilize discretion.
Now that they are a dime a dozen things have change, and the underlying rules that the pba set up to prevent this abuse are being used.

the pigs are right for once
ha, we always are right.
So unless a cop gives ot to another cop they are a useless and basically illegal document to show at a traffic stop. Why wouldnt they say for collectors use only.

The original idea is to identify family members and utilize discretion.
Now that they are a dime a dozen things have change, and the underlying rules that the pba set up to prevent this abuse are being used.

Well based on the above story it would seem to also be illegal for family members to carry them, unless of course membership in the PBA includes your entire family as members also?

[Laughing Boy]

Do you know why cops are called pigs? Pigs roll around in Sh-t. If cops are the pigs, guess who the sh-t is.

Well based on the above story it would seem to also be illegal for family members to carry them, unless of course membership in the PBA includes your entire family as members also
thats why we sign them chumly

[Observer 66]

Well based on the above story it would seem to also be illegal for family members to carry them, unless of course membership in the PBA includes your entire family as members also
thats why we sign them chumly

Signing them would have no impact with regard to a family member or not chumly

Unless of course you think by signing them you are transferring membership rights in the PBA to whoever holds them

But of course you couldn't be that stupid or could you

[/quote]Signing them would have no impact with regard to a family member or not chumly
makes all the difference to another LEO

[smd423]

Just so everyone knows the NYPD PBA sued and got an injunction against E-Bay for selling NYPD PBA cards a couple of years ago. This only applies to NYPD PBA cards, not NYPD Capt assoc., LBA, DEA or any other unions. Upon notification by the union E-Bay is required to remove these cards from sale on their website. The problem becomes the union cant devote someone to constantly watch the website for the cards. Sometimes they get posted. I am also not sure if the injunction has a time limit, or what the current union actions against the sale of the cards is. As far as a family member using the PBA card, the point id to identify a close family member of the officer. These people do have an affiliation wiht the union through the officer giving them the card. If you buy it on Ebay you are claiming and affiliation with the union that you do not have, as well as authorization to posess the card from the union which you do not have. The use of a shield, police insignia, or police markings in such a manner is illegal. The thing that gets me is if you look on the Suffolk County Deputy Sheriff's PBA website, you can fill out a form and get an "Associate Member" PBA card for $40.00 a year. How does this help the situation? Also for whomever it was that was going on about the NYS Drivers License being property of the motorist, that is wrong. The DMV will not try to get the license back of you let it expire but NYPD regs REQUIRE the motorist be arrested for 511 as well as REQUIRE the motorist's license be confiscated and forwarded to the DMV. If you do not return your plates, and you no longer have insurance on the vehicle the plates were issued for, you will be liable for the suspension of your license for the total number of days equal to the time it takes for you to return your plates or the payment of an $8.00 fine per day that the plates were not turned in. An officer stopping a motorist with plates on a vehicle that are no longer valid is required to confiscate them and return them to the DMV. These items, despite having your name on them, are the property of the DMV.

Just so everyone knows the NYPD PBA sued and got an injunction against E-Bay for selling NYPD PBA cards a couple of years ago. This only applies to NYPD PBA cards, not NYPD Capt assoc., LBA, DEA or any other unions. Upon notification by the union E-Bay is required to remove these cards from sale on their website. The problem becomes the union cant devote someone to constantly watch the website for the cards. Sometimes they get posted. I am also not sure if the injunction has a time limit, or what the current union actions against the sale of the cards is. As far as a family member using the PBA card, the point id to identify a close family member of the officer. These people do have an affiliation wiht the union through the officer giving them the card. If you buy it on Ebay you are claiming and affiliation with the union that you do not have, as well as authorization to posess the card from the union which you do not have. The use of a shield, police insignia, or police markings in such a manner is illegal. The thing that gets me is if you look on the Suffolk County Deputy Sheriff's PBA website, you can fill out a form and get an "Associate Member" PBA card for $40.00 a year. How does this help the situation? Also for whomever it was that was going on about the NYS Drivers License being property of the motorist, that is wrong. The DMV will not try to get the license back of you let it expire but NYPD regs REQUIRE the motorist be arrested for 511 as well as REQUIRE the motorist's license be confiscated and forwarded to the DMV. If you do not return your plates, and you no longer have insurance on the vehicle the plates were issued for, you will be liable for the suspension of your license for the total number of days equal to the time it takes for you to return your plates or the payment of an $8.00 fine per day that the plates were not turned in. An officer stopping a motorist with plates on a vehicle that are no longer valid is required to confiscate them and return them to the DMV. These items, despite having your name on them, are the property of the DMV.

Plenty of NYPD PBA cads on EBAY at this moment. Funny it only takes about 5 seconds to look for them - wonder what the PBA is doing that it cant check.

Just so everyone knows the NYPD PBA sued and got an injunction against E-Bay for selling NYPD PBA cards a couple of years ago. This only applies to NYPD PBA cards, not NYPD Capt assoc., LBA, DEA or any other unions. Upon notification by the union E-Bay is required to remove these cards from sale on their website. The problem becomes the union cant devote someone to constantly watch the website for the cards. Sometimes they get posted. I am also not sure if the injunction has a time limit, or what the current union actions against the sale of the cards is. As far as a family member using the PBA card, the point id to identify a close family member of the officer. These people do have an affiliation wiht the union through the officer giving them the card. If you buy it on Ebay you are claiming and affiliation with the union that you do not have, as well as authorization to posess the card from the union which you do not have. The use of a shield, police insignia, or police markings in such a manner is illegal. The thing that gets me is if you look on the Suffolk County Deputy Sheriff's PBA website, you can fill out a form and get an "Associate Member" PBA card for $40.00 a year. How does this help the situation? Also for whomever it was that was going on about the NYS Drivers License being property of the motorist, that is wrong. The DMV will not try to get the license back of you let it expire but NYPD regs REQUIRE the motorist be arrested for 511 as well as REQUIRE the motorist's license be confiscated and forwarded to the DMV. If you do not return your plates, and you no longer have insurance on the vehicle the plates were issued for, you will be liable for the suspension of your license for the total number of days equal to the time it takes for you to return your plates or the payment of an $8.00 fine per day that the plates were not turned in. An officer stopping a motorist with plates on a vehicle that are no longer valid is required to confiscate them and return them to the DMV. These items, despite having your name on them, are the property of the DMV.

As police frequently give cards to non family members -do they also have this same association then. The main problem with your argument is that the PBA cards for sale on EBAY are many times being sold by the officers who get them, or officers who just sell them off anyway. So this relationship would transfer whether the officer sold or gave away the card, which essentially ruins your argument.

Just so everyone knows the NYPD PBA sued and got an injunction against E-Bay for selling NYPD PBA cards a couple of years ago. This only applies to NYPD PBA cards, not NYPD Capt assoc., LBA, DEA or any other unions. Upon notification by the union E-Bay is required to remove these cards from sale on their website. The problem becomes the union cant devote someone to constantly watch the website for the cards. Sometimes they get posted. I am also not sure if the injunction has a time limit, or what the current union actions against the sale of the cards is. As far as a family member using the PBA card, the point id to identify a close family member of the officer. These people do have an affiliation wiht the union through the officer giving them the card. If you buy it on Ebay you are claiming and affiliation with the union that you do not have, as well as authorization to posess the card from the union which you do not have. The use of a shield, police insignia, or police markings in such a manner is illegal. The thing that gets me is if you look on the Suffolk County Deputy Sheriff's PBA website, you can fill out a form and get an "Associate Member" PBA card for $40.00 a year. How does this help the situation? Also for whomever it was that was going on about the NYS Drivers License being property of the motorist, that is wrong. The DMV will not try to get the license back of you let it expire but NYPD regs REQUIRE the motorist be arrested for 511 as well as REQUIRE the motorist's license be confiscated and forwarded to the DMV. If you do not return your plates, and you no longer have insurance on the vehicle the plates were issued for, you will be liable for the suspension of your license for the total number of days equal to the time it takes for you to return your plates or the payment of an $8.00 fine per day that the plates were not turned in. An officer stopping a motorist with plates on a vehicle that are no longer valid is required to confiscate them and return them to the DMV. These items, despite having your name on them, are the property of the DMV.

With regard to the license discussion the original point was made on who owns it.

Assuming you are not doing anything illegal with it you own it and you point it out as the DMV doesnt require you to turn them in when they expire if you are not renewing it. Its the DMV that issues and controls licenses not the PDs. They only enforce regs of when you are breaking the law.

Its the DMV that issues and controls licenses not the PDs. They only enforce regs of when you are breaking the law.
That wasnt the issue, the issue was licensing. The state owns your license for anything that is licensed, including being a police officer, and can revoke your license when the need be. You are paying for the privilege of having the license. The document must be surrendered on demand.

So this relationship would transfer whether the officer sold or gave away the card, which essentially ruins your argument
A ''relationship'' whatever that means does not supersede the law. The law states that; section 396 sub 2
use or display the words "Police Department,"
"Police" or any sign, lettering or device with the letters "P.D.," or
any other matter indicating ownership, possession or use by a police department.

Its the DMV that issues and controls licenses not the PDs. They only enforce regs of when you are breaking the law.
That wasnt the issue, the issue was licensing. The state owns your license for anything that is licensed, including being a police officer, and can revoke your license when the need be. You are paying for the privilege of having the license. The document must be surrendered on demand.

Yes the issue is licensing and the document becomes a meaningless piece of paper because having it doesn't mean you are licensed and not having one doesnt mean you are not licensed.

The main problem with your argument is that the PBA cards for sale on EBAY are many times being sold by the officers who get them, or officers who just sell them off anyway. So this relationship would transfer whether the officer sold or gave away the card, which essentially ruins your argument.

You cannot just make stuff up, if I as a pba member own a card and give it to my friend, it doesnt make him a pba member, if he presents it in public to a MOS it is at the MOS's discretion whether or not it is confiscated.

Yes the issue is licensing and the document becomes a meaningless piece of paper because having it doesn't mean you are licensed and not having one doesnt mean you are not licensed.
Whatever, when the state removes your right to utilize whatever license you are paying for the right to use, you are required to turn in that license.
Likewise if your drivers license is expired for more than 6 months the commissioner or his deponents,in example duly sworn police officers will confiscate the license and you must reapply and be retested(permit) and take the road test.

its a similar issue. if you have a expired license at home like a pba card, its not a big deal, if you drive and present it in public, the officer can take it from you.

[dimestore lawyer]

Likewise if your drivers license is expired for more than 6 months the commissioner or his deponents,in example duly sworn police officers will confiscate the license and you must reapply and be retested(permit) and take the road test.
Interesting I thought it was a year before you were required to take the roadtest over. What is being said is basically true, but most cops dont turn in the licenses to DMV they just throw them out. If it goes to court, that might be enough of a mistake to have the summons dismissed

Interesting I thought it was a year before you were required to take the roadtest over. What is being said is basically true, but most cops dont turn in the licenses to DMV they just throw them out. If it goes to court, that might be enough of a mistake to have the summons dismissed
OK counselor, and we all know what counselor means
How about we argue about what shade of blue the sky is?
geeezzzzzz

The main problem with your argument is that the PBA cards for sale on EBAY are many times being sold by the officers who get them, or officers who just sell them off anyway. So this relationship would transfer whether the officer sold or gave away the card, which essentially ruins your argument.

You cannot just make stuff up, if I as a pba member own a card and give it to my friend, it doesnt make him a pba member, if he presents it in public to a MOS it is at the MOS's discretion whether or not it is confiscated.


Whose making it up - only you are looking at a piece of the argument. Read the posts and see how wrong you are.

Whose making it up - only you are looking at a piece of the argument. Read the posts and see how wrong you are.
You are wrong. PBA cards are given to members in good standing of their union. that is a current member, up to date with his membership requirements, example being their union dues. These cards and their stipulations of use are documented in the pba charter for the members. There is no transfer of pba membership, entitled to a non-member who happens to have a pba card. therefore there is relationship to anything. the point blank legal explanation has been gone over. Only a MOS may display a document or sign with any reference to any police organization. If a pba card existed with no badge or specific branch of law enforcement, example NYPD, then it would be legal for you to carry.

[nutbuster]

If a pba card existed with no badge or specific branch of law enforcement, example NYPD, then it would be legal for you to carry.
Then it would be a blank card that just said pba, give it up flatfoot.
Thats ridiculous!! Im suprised you arent saying that having a documnet with the likeness of a badge isnt impersonating a officer.

Whose making it up - only you are looking at a piece of the argument. Read the posts and see how wrong you are.
You are wrong. PBA cards are given to members in good standing of their union. that is a current member, up to date with his membership requirements, example being their union dues. These cards and their stipulations of use are documented in the pba charter for the members. There is no transfer of pba membership, entitled to a non-member who happens to have a pba card. therefore there is relationship to anything. the point blank legal explanation has been gone over. Only a MOS may display a document or sign with any reference to any police organization. If a pba card existed with no badge or specific branch of law enforcement, example NYPD, then it would be legal for you to carry.

Lets see how wrong you are

The PBA cards we are talking about here are useless for a cop - its not like they need that to try to get out of a ticket. These are cards that are specifically used to give out to family members/friends etc. The discussion started when a person said they got a ticket and a fine for having and trying to use a valid PBA card. According to them they were fined for purporting to belong to the PBA. Based on that theory everyone who had a PBA card (other than the cop_) would be guilty.

Plkease read the posts so you know what you are talking about

The PBA cards we are talking about here are useless for a cop - its not like they need that to try to get out of a ticket. These are cards that are specifically used to give out to family members/friends etc. The discussion started when a person said they got a ticket and a fine for having and trying to use a valid PBA card. According to them they were fined for purporting to belong to the PBA. Based on that theory everyone who had a PBA card (other than the cop_) would be guilty.
then why do pba cards state member and have the shield on it?
Its amazing that someone who isnt in a pba is telling someone who is what the cards are for.
The pba card isnt a get out of jail free card, it is still the officers discretion. My family members that have been pulled over have shown a signed legit card, and acted politely and as I told them to have never had any problems with other MOS, however the typical e-bay or handme down types that assume like you that they are high and free, that I've encountered have been dealt with accordingly

Based on that theory everyone who had a PBA card (other than the cop_) would be guilty
but again, if I yank a city cops wife and she shows me a pba card that says spouse signed by her hubby, I will hand it back and wish her a good nite, if its mr e-bay, I'll take the card and write him what I choose, its called discretion

The PBA cards we are talking about here are useless for a cop
but they are ours as per our union dues allow us to possess them, we choose who gets them, and who keeps them. if we feel you shouldnt have them we confiscate them as they are property of the pba.

The PBA cards we are talking about here are useless for a cop
but they are ours as per our union dues allow us to possess them, we choose who gets them, and who keeps them. if we feel you shouldnt have them we confiscate them as they are property of the pba.

Thats not the issue

The issue was that by someone possesing a card (lets say they got it from their best friend who is a cop) are they committing a crime when they show it to try to get out of a ticket.

The earlier poster said he was given a ticket and convicted when he tried to use the card (of course part of their story is probably missing) but according to his story the judge said by showing the card you are saying you are in the union and that is a crime.

We have been discussing that point. The logic being if what the judge said was true - everyone who had one (of course other than a cop) would be guilty of a crime.

wrong it was the sticker on the windshield read it again and check the law, unauthorized police insignia

The rest of the issue is the fact that you are presenting yourself as a member of a pba by showing a card with the pba's name and replica of a shield. Those are among the reasons LEOS are able to confiscate the card

use or display the words "Police Department,"
"Police" or any sign, lettering or device with the letters "P.D.," or
any other matter indicating ownership, possession or use by a police department 396 sub2
the sticker was displayed on the car, issued by the pba, incidentally by displaying a pba card in your window,windshield or the arm-patch from a police organization, in your window you may also be summoned for the same

you know it all should really read up on your laws, I would imagine its easier to make it up as you go along, ala bearers instrument and that relationship thing, but it definitelty makes this a one sided beating, lol

wrong it was the sticker on the windshield read it again and check the law, unauthorized police insignia


Its funny you should have read it again here is the quote:

"Since there is a replica of a badge with the affiliated police organization on both the pba card and sticker, it was an attempt on my part to lay claim to being a member of that organization. "

See it mentions the replica on the PBA card

The rest of the issue is the fact that you are presenting yourself as a member of a pba by showing a card with the pba's name and replica of a shield. Those are among the reasons LEOS are able to confiscate the card

So according to your statement anyone who shows the card is commmitting a crime.

ok but a police officer cannot write a traffic summons to a pba card in a wallet, please read a little about the law

you know it all should really read up on your laws, I would imagine its easier to make it up as you go along, ala bearers instrument and that relationship thing, but it definitelty makes this a one sided beating, lol

Actually if you read the posts you would see how wroong you are but of course getting the powdered sugar from the donuts off your fingers is the toughest task of the day for you.

ok but a police officer cannot write a traffic summons to a pba card in a wallet, please read a little about the law

Please read the posts - we are not talking about a card in a wallet but a card being shown at the time of a traffic stop.

So according to your statement anyone who shows the card is commmitting a crime.
what crime? i want to be a pba member crime?

Actually if you read the posts you would see how wroong you are but of course getting the powdered sugar from the donuts off your fingers is the toughest task of the day for you.
I think the problem is I understand what Im reading, and you are too busy trying to prove you understand

Actually if you read the posts you would see how wroong you are but of course getting the powdered sugar from the donuts off your fingers is the toughest task of the day for you.
I think the problem is I understand what Im reading, and you are too busy trying to prove you understand

Its amazing you can think that but thats why you get so many things wrong - reading comprehension was never a top skill for you I see.

Please read the posts - we are not talking about a card in a wallet but a card being shown at the time of a traffic stop.
ok the section we are discussing is specifically about motor vehicles, not cards in wallets or hands. the sticker or card must be affixed to the motor vehicle other wise how it is a violation of the traffic law. PLEASE STOP DO NOT REPLY UNTIL YOU READ THE SECTION OF THE VTL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Actually if you read the posts you would see how wroong you are but of course getting the powdered sugar from the donuts off your fingers is the toughest task of the day for you.
I think the problem is I understand what Im reading, and you are too busy trying to prove you understand

Your main problem is you jumped in a discussion half way through and failed to read the posts that initiated the difference. But again reading comprehension is not one of your key skills.

Please read the posts - we are not talking about a card in a wallet but a card being shown at the time of a traffic stop.
ok the section we are discussing is specifically about motor vehicles, not cards in wallets or hands. the sticker or card must be affixed to the motor vehicle other wise how it is a violation of the traffic law. PLEASE STOP DO NOT REPLY UNTIL YOU READ THE SECTION OF THE VTL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.


Again wrong we are talking about a post where someone said they were given a ticket for presenting a PBA card and the jusdge held up the fine

You have no clue today do you

how can you repeatedly call other people stupid when you do not have a clue what you are talking about. you cannot receive a summons for a vehicle infraction for having a pba card in your wallet, go to looseleaflaw,com and read section 396 of the vtl and come back and apologize