Taxing the childless

[Fedupped]

Can someone tell me why people without children are forced to pay school taxes? What gives the school district the legal right to do so?

[hedgehog]

Because everyone's property values benefit from a strong school district.

[Spareus]

Oh yeah? Then why am I (with no children) paying through the nose for a school district in Southwest Suffolk that sucks. Ill tell you why. Because the illegal six family homes are paying single school taxes and we have a superintendent who could give a rats ass about the taxpayer. Hell we even got big bucks artificial turf for a football team that sucks even more. And those new expensive lights that arent used because the night games were now cancelled. Thats OK. They cost big bucks to light and screw up the night sky over half the town. Given your response I should pay nothing.

[hedgehog]

1) Were you aware of this situation before you moved in?

2) Who's on your school board? Are they just doing the superintendents bidding? And do you vote in your school board elections? Or do you just go on chat rooms and bitch?

[Well,]

I too have no kids. All school districts could cut there budgets in half if they just did what was state mandated. Cut out all the extra's and see how much our :wink: taxes go down. All these sports programs, music programs, and several different "clubs" are not mandates. Even transportation is only mandated if you live more than 2 miles for elementary and more than 3 miles for secondary. Why do we have buses stopping at every corner. This is why our taxes are so high. All those people complaining about their taxes are getting "more" than their money's worth, but, if you have no kids, well--I hope they appreciate what "WE" pay for!

Hedgehog - I'm here since I'm 2. It was alot different back then. I've seen all the changes, many for the worst. I don't see myself retiring here and the schools will be the brunt of the blame. Do I vote? I KNOW most of the school board. My vote doesn't count because people like me are outnumbered by those with children who vote and don't care about the cost. I don't bitch just for the sake of bitching. I don't mind paying for education. Extra curricular should be picked up by those who benefit from it. Especially sports. In my district most of those benefiting from sports don't even live in the town. Ours is a valid complaint and the schools just don't care, long as they get their money.

[Spareus]

Hedgehog - I'm here since I'm 2. It was alot different back then. I've seen all the changes, many for the worst. I don't see myself retiring here and the schools will be the brunt of the blame. Do I vote? I KNOW most of the school board. My vote doesn't count because people like me are outnumbered by those with children who vote and don't care about the cost. I don't bitch just for the sake of bitching. I don't mind paying for education. Extra curricular should be picked up by those who benefit from it. Especially sports. In my district most of those benefiting from sports don't even live in the town. Ours is a valid complaint and the schools just don't care, long as they get their money.

This sounds like a broken record. All typical Long Islanders...You want everything, but don't want to pay for it. I was a Long Islander for almost 40 years. Finally the taxes and the cost of living drove me out. Last year, when we were still on the Island, the kids came home after the first day of school with a 2 page list of "supplies" that were needed. I thought this to be outrageous. Why then was I paying over $3000 a year to the school district? I guess to get new uniforms for the Math team. I don't mind paying for education, but get real. I agree with Spareus...the illegal apartments kill any district. We moved to another state, and would you believe the school district here has it's own busses, and no 2 page lists of "supplies", it's all provided by the district. Everything extracarricular is split between the district and the participants. I guess thats why my taxes on 2 acres is only $1750....The education is better than any Long Island school. We have newer buildings, a teacher to student ratio of 15 to 1, with an aide in the 5 elementary schools, 2 middle schools, and the high school. The district here has 4000 students enrolled (k thru 12) and no one is crowded. I guess the administrators here really care about education, not just a paycheck. Look away from LI and you will find that the grass IS greener elsewhere.....

Where, pray tell, is this paradise where the schools are so good and the taxes so low?

[drivertom1]

The Intel Science contest anoounced 300 semifinalists today. 83 were from Long Island School districts and 151 in total from NY State.

How many were from your paradise in Pennsylvania

Funny, the Intel Science website only has 2003-2004 info. It also says that the Semifinalists will be announced today at 2:30 pm EST. Your post is timed at 12:50 p.m..
Besides, I only saw 1 from Lynbrook last year...

[drivertom1]

Funny, the Intel Science website only has 2003-2004 info. It also says that the Semifinalists will be announced today at 2:30 pm EST. Your post is timed at 12:50 p.m..
Besides, I only saw 1 from Lynbrook last year...

Newsday had the story from this morning along with the list.

We were not talking about Lynbrook but about Long Island as a whole from the posts

Right. The headline in the LONG ISLAND paper read "34 NYC teens make Intel science contest semifinals". How did Newsday get the results before the 2:30 pm time? And why isn't the headline " 83 Long Island Kids..."Did you look at some of the projects? "projects ranging from research into the effects of nicotine to a study of social views of Muslim-American girls."
Very nice. Sounds like a winner! Besides, what does this contest have to do with anything anyway? The total cost of living anywhere else in the country compared to the NY metro area is amazing. Agreed, NY is the "melting pot", but I didn't want to pay for the illegals or to line the politician's pockets. It is a very different life here, where kids are taught life lessons as well as academics, which are not taught in NY.

[drivertom1]

Right. The headline in the LONG ISLAND paper read "34 NYC teens make Intel science contest semifinals". How did Newsday get the results before the 2:30 pm time? And why isn't the headline " 83 Long Island Kids..."Did you look at some of the projects? "projects ranging from research into the effects of nicotine to a study of social views of Muslim-American girls."
Very nice. Sounds like a winner! Besides, what does this contest have to do with anything anyway? The total cost of living anywhere else in the country compared to the NY metro area is amazing. Agreed, NY is the "melting pot", but I didn't want to pay for the illegals or to line the politician's pockets. It is a very different life here, where kids are taught life lessons as well as academics, which are not taught in NY.


Actually the headline at Newsday.com is 83 LI teens make Intel Semifinalist

Here is your link

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-liscie0113,0,6503178.story?coll=ny-top-span-headlines

the story was posted at 11:15 this morning.

Ask Newsday yourself how they got the results.

The question still is how many kids from your district made the list.

[drivertom1]

Right. The headline in the LONG ISLAND paper read "34 NYC teens make Intel science contest semifinals". How did Newsday get the results before the 2:30 pm time? And why isn't the headline " 83 Long Island Kids..."Did you look at some of the projects? "projects ranging from research into the effects of nicotine to a study of social views of Muslim-American girls."
Very nice. Sounds like a winner! Besides, what does this contest have to do with anything anyway? The total cost of living anywhere else in the country compared to the NY metro area is amazing. Agreed, NY is the "melting pot", but I didn't want to pay for the illegals or to line the politician's pockets. It is a very different life here, where kids are taught life lessons as well as academics, which are not taught in NY.


The headline you got was from NYnewsday.com which is the city version of the paper, thats why they listed the city students who received the award

Can you be a little more specific about what part of Pennsylvania? I'm looking for just such a paradise myself.

What? And give away the secret? NO way. There are no liberals here, and we'd like to keep it that way. Only in NY can you elect a senator who never lived there, or see headlines like today's Newsrag "Ex-Roslyn school administrators' pay probed" or "Post-game brawl probed
Cops, school investigate in wake of 'ugly' fight among parents, students after Bay Shore game" or even "Ex-mayor charged with theft, tampering". There is none of that crap here. Yes, in the larger cities there are shootings, robberies, murder, etc., but not here. I believe the issue of this thread is why tax the childless. The first response said it all.
As for the Island, I grew up there and chose for my kids not to. It has changed too much for the worse. The only "gangs" we have here are either deer or bears, not MS13 or crips or bloods. The Friday night high school football game is the highlight of the week. The whole town shows up. No fights, No irate parents.
If all of you are content on the Island, fine, my point is that there are other places to live in this country other than the island that have a better quality of life. For me and my family, where we are now is the place. If you are happy in Lynbrook, Port Jeff, or wherever on the Island, good for you. I would much rather pay less for more.........

[drivertom1]

What? And give away the secret? NO way. There are no liberals here, and we'd like to keep it that way. Only in NY can you elect a senator who never lived there, or see headlines like today's Newsrag "Ex-Roslyn school administrators' pay probed" or "Post-game brawl probed
Cops, school investigate in wake of 'ugly' fight among parents, students after Bay Shore game" or even "Ex-mayor charged with theft, tampering". There is none of that crap here. Yes, in the larger cities there are shootings, robberies, murder, etc., but not here. I believe the issue of this thread is why tax the childless. The first response said it all.
As for the Island, I grew up there and chose for my kids not to. It has changed too much for the worse. The only "gangs" we have here are either deer or bears, not MS13 or crips or bloods. The Friday night high school football game is the highlight of the week. The whole town shows up. No fights, No irate parents.
If all of you are content on the Island, fine, my point is that there are other places to live in this country other than the island that have a better quality of life. For me and my family, where we are now is the place. If you are happy in Lynbrook, Port Jeff, or wherever on the Island, good for you. I would much rather pay less for more.........

Again ignoring the question - how many kids from your section of paradise made the Intel semifinalist list?

You are an idiot....

[drivertom1]

You are an idiot....

So we can assume that means zero

[Lost the topic]

Back on track. If you have no kids - why are you forced to pay the same school tax as somebody with 6 kids - all using the public schools, all taking drivers ed, all going to story time at the library, all getting a gift from santa at the village hall at christmas time, and on and on and on. Seems unfair - downright discrimination. I could see contributing alittle something because kids in school are kids not running amok all over my property and stealing from me later cos they can't get jobs - but why am I paying the SAME tax? People talk about vouchers for kids going to catholic school, how about tax credits for people paying school tax and not having any kids?

[hedgehog]

OK, but when you sell your house you don't get full value for it, either.

Back on track. If you have no kids - why are you forced to pay the same school tax as somebody with 6 kids - all using the public schools, all taking drivers ed, all going to story time at the library, all getting a gift from santa at the village hall at christmas time, and on and on and on. Seems unfair - downright discrimination. I could see contributing alittle something because kids in school are kids not running amok all over my property and stealing from me later cos they can't get jobs - but why am I paying the SAME tax? People talk about vouchers for kids going to catholic school, how about tax credits for people paying school tax and not having any kids?

Because thats the way the tax base was set up.

You pay tax for Socials services like Medicaid and welfare you might not use

[Running out of user names]

Medicaid and welfare are federal - state - county funds. It's not paid through local property taxes. It's paid out of income taxes. Part of state and federal income taxes paid goes to pay for those things and then the state and feds allots a certain amounty back to the county to use for its illegal immigrants and the legal ones who, after 20 years, still can't speak english.

Value of the home might be reflected higher in areas where there's a good school district, but then are you saying the higher the taxes paid the better the school district? That circles around the query. Why not pay according to use - and if you buy in a good school district than you've paid as much for your house as the guy with 6 kids, so you're entitled to get back the value of your house regardless of what your tax credit is worth.

I mean, if a senior citizen is getting a star credit and not paying as much in property taxes as you are for your house, you mean they should give up a portion of the sale of their home when they give up and move to Florida? No. It's an entitlement. Like a free education is. Doesn't mean it shouldn't exist - just means it should be fairly apportioned.

Maintaining property value is only one benefit of a good district - that's why they're not saying they shouldn't pay ANY school taxes, but just that the contribution should be less because that's the ONLY benefit they're getting - while people with kids are getting way more for the same dollar.

[not true buddy]

Sorry charlie. Medicaid is a FEDERAL- STATE program. Suozzi is an idiot. Look up the Medicaid law. The FIRST thing it says is that it's a FEDERAL - STATE program. The Feds administer it, the State monitors it, the County implements it. The taxes are collected through your INCOME tax. Property tax has ZERO to do with it.

What I think? Suozzi is complaining so that stupid people believe his rhetoric about how ALBANY is to blame for HIS tax and spend decisions to tax us out of house and home and medicaid is such a confusing area that he figures everyone will believe his nonsense because nobody really understands it anyway. He is counting on voter's ignorance.

What he is complaining about is that the County's portion of what they DON"T GET REIMBURSED FOR is getting larger because more people are getting and using the medicaid system - so it's costing Nassau more - but the State and the Feds aren't necessarily giving Nassau more money out of their budgets that they've collected from OUR INCOME TAXES. He wants to threaten Albany to reimburse NEW YORK METRO for a higher proportion of the money spent, but that actually HURTS Nassau County because the Suozzi plan protects NYC (thus his delusion that if he can protect NYC and gain their vote he can win at statewide office) and is actually at the Expense of the residents of Nassau County. NYC has a much higher proportion of people on medicaid so their medicaid bills are alot higher - what Suozzi is doing is forcing Nassau to subsidize NYC with his whinining.

And with his conduct in Albany and in Washington, he's made so many enemies, that Nassau will be lucky if the dog gets a bone. Certainly, we'll get something or else the pols will look petty - god forbid- but we won't do near as well as we would if there was a uniter instead of a fighter on board.

Sorry charlie. Medicaid is a FEDERAL- STATE program. Suozzi is an idiot. Look up the Medicaid law. The FIRST thing it says is that it's a FEDERAL - STATE program. The Feds administer it, the State monitors it, the County implements it. The taxes are collected through your INCOME tax. Property tax has ZERO to do with it.

What I think? Suozzi is complaining so that stupid people believe his rhetoric about how ALBANY is to blame for HIS tax and spend decisions to tax us out of house and home and medicaid is such a confusing area that he figures everyone will believe his nonsense because nobody really understands it anyway. He is counting on voter's ignorance.

What he is complaining about is that the County's portion of what they DON"T GET REIMBURSED FOR is getting larger because more people are getting and using the medicaid system - so it's costing Nassau more - but the State and the Feds aren't necessarily giving Nassau more money out of their budgets that they've collected from OUR INCOME TAXES. He wants to threaten Albany to reimburse NEW YORK METRO for a higher proportion of the money spent, but that actually HURTS Nassau County because the Suozzi plan protects NYC (thus his delusion that if he can protect NYC and gain their vote he can win at statewide office) and is actually at the Expense of the residents of Nassau County. NYC has a much higher proportion of people on medicaid so their medicaid bills are alot higher - what Suozzi is doing is forcing Nassau to subsidize NYC with his whinining.

And with his conduct in Albany and in Washington, he's made so many enemies, that Nassau will be lucky if the dog gets a bone. Certainly, we'll get something or else the pols will look petty - god forbid- but we won't do near as well as we would if there was a uniter instead of a fighter on board.


You really have no concept do you. Nassau has no income tax so money to pay for Medicaid comes from property tax

You rant but you know not what you speak

[rukiddinme?]

I too have no kids. All school districts could cut there budgets in half if they just did what was state mandated. Cut out all the extra's and see how much our :wink: taxes go down. All these sports programs, music programs, and several different "clubs" are not mandates. Even transportation is only mandated if you live more than 2 miles for elementary and more than 3 miles for secondary. Why do we have buses stopping at every corner. This is why our taxes are so high. All those people complaining about their taxes are getting "more" than their money's worth, but, if you have no kids, well--I hope they appreciate what "WE" pay for!

Are you kidding me!?!?! EXTRAS??? Get a grip! This is why you have no kids! The kids need those EXTRAS? This is what keeps them pre-occupied and out of trouble. So thank you childless!!! Thanks for all the millions of dollars YOU pay Thank GOD for you!!! By the way your taxes pay for alot of other things with schools aside. Buses stopping at every corner?!?!? I'm sure the amount of stops have NOTHING to do with the taxes you pay! You are a self centered witch! That is done for the protection of the children! Kidnappings, drug solicitors and people who just plain old disregard the speed limits!!! Its a good thing you DONT have kids Thank GOD for us you DONT!!
MC-Hauppauge

Are u Kidding??????????
I agree kids should have all this & then some. I agree in todays day & age safety is a concern. I agree these programs keep kids off the street. They should have all this & more. But, why knock on your neighbor's door and ask" could I have $6,000 so my child can get all these "extras". By all means, YES--give it to them But, pay for it. What I'm saying is the "childless" taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for the" Extras", but the kids should be able to get them. Now we get into 'parents responsibility'. It's your child, give them the "BEST" by all means.
There's an old phrase, "you wanna play, you gotta pay"!

Are u Kidding??????????
I agree kids should have all this & then some. I agree in todays day & age safety is a concern. I agree these programs keep kids off the street. They should have all this & more. But, why knock on your neighbor's door and ask" could I have $6,000 so my child can get all these "extras". By all means, YES--give it to them But, pay for it. What I'm saying is the "childless" taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for the" Extras", but the kids should be able to get them. Now we get into 'parents responsibility'. It's your child, give them the "BEST" by all means.
There's an old phrase, "you wanna play, you gotta pay"!

So ALL of your tax paid dollars go primarily to the school district? WOW!! YOU know they DON"T..Do the math. How much exactly goes to your schools? Do you complain about the medicaid/social services portion that your paid tax dollars are going? OR better yet..you do know that you pay for your fire dept and ambulance company..correct? You may not ever need there assistance. Should you still pay them? What about your garbage diposal? We all contribute the same. As for the real EXTRAS we pay. YES WE DO! There are more extras then your obviously aware of. So maybe you should have kids so that your not wasting your money on your community. Wait....nah forget I said that. I fear that they would be somehow deprived. Well whatever, thanks for your generous contributions! It's money well spent! So with all that said lets just agree to disagree.
mc-hauppauge

[explained clearly]

You have no children but you're still liable for school taxes. Why?

Because.

-Schools are required by law to exist.
-They cost money and have to be paid for.
-A "free education" is required to be offered to every child of school age, whether legal or illegal.
-"Free educations" aren't free as the word suggests, but it does mean that students aren't billed for services rendered.
-The system used in New York State is a local property tax system.

Property owners and taxpayers pay for a lot of things they'll never use or need or want which may or may not have any direct or apparent benefit.

You have no children but you're still liable for school taxes. Why?

Because.

-Schools are required by law to exist.
-They cost money and have to be paid for.
-A "free education" is required to be offered to every child of school age, whether legal or illegal.
-"Free educations" aren't free as the word suggests, but it does mean that students aren't billed for services rendered.
-The system used in New York State is a local property tax system.

Property owners and taxpayers pay for a lot of things they'll never use or need or want which may or may not have any direct or apparent benefit.

AMEN!

[Maybe if]

Maybe if parents spent more time raising their own children instead of leaving it to their nannies and their school teachers there wouldn't be need of all these "extras" you've come to rely on. Most teachers and school administrators are sick of babysitting for your children and providing for their after school entertainment. There is no income tax? Gee - I wonder where all that money they've been taking out of my paycheck goes too? Maybe you mean there is no local income tax, but if you bothered to read the posts I read, and can understand them - medicaid is a state/federal program paid for through your state/federal tax dollars which are collected through your state/federal income tax. The local governments are reimbursed by the state/federal income tax programs. Why is medicaid so high? Because of all these KIDS born to illegal aliens that get free medical care - the same kids that are bloating the school districts - the same kids we pay high school taxes to support, are the same kids we pay high medicaid taxes to support. That's why I think there should be a pro-rata school tax funded on how many kids you have. Of course, the same people ranting about how unfair that is - are the same people who have 4 kids or more and expect their school district to provide for their kids after school entertainment while the parents ignore their responsibilities. You can rant all you want - but you know it's the truth. The truth hurts too huh?

Maybe if parents spent more time raising their own children instead of leaving it to their nannies and their school teachers there wouldn't be need of all these "extras" you've come to rely on. Most teachers and school administrators are sick of babysitting for your children and providing for their after school entertainment. There is no income tax? Gee - I wonder where all that money they've been taking out of my paycheck goes too? Maybe you mean there is no local income tax, but if you bothered to read the posts I read, and can understand them - medicaid is a state/federal program paid for through your state/federal tax dollars which are collected through your state/federal income tax. The local governments are reimbursed by the state/federal income tax programs. Why is medicaid so high? Because of all these KIDS born to illegal aliens that get free medical care - the same kids that are bloating the school districts - the same kids we pay high school taxes to support, are the same kids we pay high medicaid taxes to support. That's why I think there should be a pro-rata school tax funded on how many kids you have. Of course, the same people ranting about how unfair that is - are the same people who have 4 kids or more and expect their school district to provide for their kids after school entertainment while the parents ignore their responsibilities. You can rant all you want - but you know it's the truth. The truth hurts too huh?

Nassau county pays for a portion of Medicaid in this state. That money comes from property taxes - how clueless are you

Maybe if parents spent more time raising their own children instead of leaving it to their nannies and their school teachers there wouldn't be need of all these "extras" you've come to rely on. Most teachers and school administrators are sick of babysitting for your children and providing for their after school entertainment. There is no income tax? Gee - I wonder where all that money they've been taking out of my paycheck goes too? Maybe you mean there is no local income tax, but if you bothered to read the posts I read, and can understand them - medicaid is a state/federal program paid for through your state/federal tax dollars which are collected through your state/federal income tax. The local governments are reimbursed by the state/federal income tax programs. Why is medicaid so high? Because of all these KIDS born to illegal aliens that get free medical care - the same kids that are bloating the school districts - the same kids we pay high school taxes to support, are the same kids we pay high medicaid taxes to support. That's why I think there should be a pro-rata school tax funded on how many kids you have. Of course, the same people ranting about how unfair that is - are the same people who have 4 kids or more and expect their school district to provide for their kids after school entertainment while the parents ignore their responsibilities. You can rant all you want - but you know it's the truth. The truth hurts too huh?

Your out of your mind! The parents pay for "babysitting" as you put it! Its called after care for working parents!! The only one who's ranting and raving is ummm you! Today there are alot of struggling families and it's not always because they're illegal aliens..Some people are laid off or have become disabled or have some tough times and the children are entitled to healthy life if there family has become unfortunate. You sound so digusting and gross the way you describe kids. You must've been born with a silver spoon in your mouth with everything Daddy could ever give you. Wake up! stop being so ignorant.

mc-hauppauge

Do you plan to ever need a doctor or an auto mechanic when you are old? Guess what? Those people are school kids right now. I for one would like to have a little confidence that they can read and write and are capable of learning their selected trades well enough so they don't cut off the wrong leg when my diabetes gets bad or forget to put the lug nuts on my tire before I drive away. Public education benetis us all whether the children involved are our own biological children or not.

[Not cluelessly]

The only reason the county pays anything for medicaid is because it uses more than what the state and feds reimburse it for, and the only reason Suozzi uses the property taxes to pay for it is because he can't figure out another pool of resources to use. If fees charged for medical use in the clinics or even for the parking fees at the hospital and surcharges, or how about the revenue from parking and traffic tickets or sales tax were pooled and used wisely they could be used to offset expected future rising costs of medicaid. Instead he spends, spends, spends on bloated salaries for NYC appointees, buy real estate we've no use for and creates task forces to investigate crazy ideas and then raises property taxes to pay for that, not leaving any cushion from any other revenue - like maybe even nassau county sales tax to use to fall back on.

And if you can't afford to care for your own kids - you shouldn't have any.

[Ditto That]

Public education benetis us all whether the children involved are our own biological children or not.

[PUblic education does]

Yeah, the education does. That's why the childless isn't saying they don't want to or shouldn't contribute at all to school taxes, they are just saying, and I agree, they shouldn't be paying the same school taxes as people who have kids pay. Those people don't need the extras - meaning - after school activities, day care, drivers ed, religious instruction, library groups, free events and trips ect.. If parents with kids need or use those extras then they should have to pay for those extras - if you have more kids you pay a higher proportion. That's what we're saying and that's what's fair. People putting off having families because they can't afford them shouldn't be stuck paying for other families. That's the reality.

Yeah, the education does. That's why the childless isn't saying they don't want to or shouldn't contribute at all to school taxes, they are just saying, and I agree, they shouldn't be paying the same school taxes as people who have kids pay. Those people don't need the extras - meaning - after school activities, day care, drivers ed, religious instruction, library groups, free events and trips ect.. If parents with kids need or use those extras then they should have to pay for those extras - if you have more kids you pay a higher proportion. That's what we're saying and that's what's fair. People putting off having families because they can't afford them shouldn't be stuck paying for other families. That's the reality.

The reality is thats not how the tax system here works -

So we're talking about a USE TAX for Public Education? Hasn't it ever occurred to you that EVERYONE uses Public Education? God help us all if we lived in a world where only those with means had access to rudimentary citizenship and functional training. TAX PAC went way too far when it stopped its campaign for budgetary responsibility and started trying to tear down the Public Education system.

[Going around in circles]

Not a use tax. A proportion. Get it? A voucher or a discount on the school tax bill if you have no kids verses if you have 6 kids. You people are only reading what you feel like reading and apparently not understanding the argument. It's hopeless. Hopefully the readers not posting are getting the point of this thread because the posters against are certainly not even trying. Purposeful stupidity in their best interest I guess.

[Just pay 'em!]

Not a use tax. A proportion. Get it? A voucher or a discount on the school tax bill if you have no kids verses if you have 6 kids. You people are only reading what you feel like reading and apparently not understanding the argument. It's hopeless. Hopefully the readers not posting are getting the point of this thread because the posters against are certainly not even trying. Purposeful stupidity in their best interest I guess.

No, you're not comprehending the answers. If people with fewer children or no children get vouchers or a discount on their tax bills, that would drive up the taxes on the remainder who have children or have more children. And that's what amounts to a use tax and it is illegal.

The purposeful stupidity is yours.

If a lollipop is .10 cents, but blonde haired girls get them for .05 cents, then everyone else who is paying the full price is subsidizing the blonde headed girls.

[Indy the Reformer]

How about expanding the Enhanced STAR Rebate to include all childless residential property owners with incomes under the income cutoff ($64,650 now), not just those over age 65?

The Enhanced STAR Rebate recognizes that our elderly homeowners tend to be property-rich and income-low and school-burden-low (empty-nesters with no school-aged children) and are therefore the most "screwed" by the local property taxes used to fund schools. Aren't younger childless property owners with low incomes also similarly screwed? Other than the fact that they (we) don't vote as much as the AARP-led elderly, how are we different?

The current system has us younger childless people subsidizing those families with children to support a system we can't use.

How about expanding the Enhanced STAR Rebate to include all childless residential property owners with incomes under the income cutoff ($64,650 now), not just those over age 65?

The Enhanced STAR Rebate recognizes that our elderly homeowners tend to be property-rich and income-low and school-burden-low (empty-nesters with no school-aged children) and are therefore the most "screwed" by the local property taxes used to fund schools. Aren't younger childless property owners with low incomes also similarly screwed? Other than the fact that they (we) don't vote as much as the AARP-led elderly, how are we different?

The current system has us younger childless people subsidizing those families with children to support a system we can't use.

How about another idea

Why dont we change the entire tax system and you only pay for services you use.

SO I dont get welfare or other benefits like that I get a credit for every benefit I dont use.

You dont drive then get a credit for any highway taxes.

[That's not reform]

How about expanding the Enhanced STAR Rebate to include all childless residential property owners with incomes under the income cutoff ($64,650 now), not just those over age 65?

The Enhanced STAR Rebate recognizes that our elderly homeowners tend to be property-rich and income-low and school-burden-low (empty-nesters with no school-aged children) and are therefore the most "screwed" by the local property taxes used to fund schools. Aren't younger childless property owners with low incomes also similarly screwed? Other than the fact that they (we) don't vote as much as the AARP-led elderly, how are we different?

The current system has us younger childless people subsidizing those families with children to support a system we can't use.

Here's how it's "different." There ALREADY PAID for a lifetime into the system, and young childless property owners haven't. (And I imagine a day when the senior star program is ruled unconstitutional. It amounts to nothing more than discrimination against everyone else and preferential treatment of a select group based on age.)

Any discount given to anyone for any reason has to be made up somehow by the remainder of the tax pool. Just because a senior or a Vet gets a discount doesn't mean that the school budget is lessened by that amount. It isn't. Schools and towns and even the State don't "give" discounts, they simply re-distribute the funding sources to lower the burdeon on seniors and increase the burdeon on the rest of the public.

What you propose would drive up the income tax on everybody else who isn't included in your discount.

What's amazing here is how a new property owner can shell out 350-400,000.- or more for a home and then have the audacity to claim "I can't afford to pay full taxes." Your best bet is to file a discrimination suit against the State and your School district for giving any kind of discounts at all. With approximately 20% of the taxpayers getting upwards to 50% off their school tax obligation, (plus star and senior star) your taxes (and mine and everybody else's) are that much higher to make up the difference. If everyone was forced to pay their full share, the taxes we all pay would be lower.

Your argument that younger childless couples are subsidizing families with children to support a system you can't use is false. Childless or not, you benefit from the fact that children get an education. School tax is not tuition. Schools are public service. You might also argue that businesses also pay school taxes and no business ever sent a child to school. That argument is also false, as business hires these future employees and thus has an obligation to support the system which makes it possible to employ them.

[You use it all]

How about another idea

Why dont we change the entire tax system and you only pay for services you use.

SO I dont get welfare or other benefits like that I get a credit for every benefit I dont use.

You dont drive then get a credit for any highway taxes.

You do use welfare. Because welfare exists you're not tripping over beggars in the street. You may not drive, but you depend on a highway system to get the goods you use to your store.

[mom3]

[quote=PUblic education does]Yeah, the education does. That's why the childless isn't saying they don't want to or shouldn't contribute at all to school taxes, they are just saying, and I agree, they shouldn't be paying the same school taxes as people who have kids pay. Those people don't need the extras - meaning - after school activities, day care, drivers ed, religious instruction, library groups, free events and trips ect.. If parents with kids need or use those extras then they should have to pay for those extras - if you have more kids you pay a higher proportion. That's what we're saying and that's what's fair. People putting off having families because they can't afford them shouldn't be stuck paying for other families. That's the reality.

The reality is thats not how the tax system here works

Okay you definately don't have kids....the parents pay for all those things you mentioned out of pocket..EVERY ONE THAT YOU MENTIONED IS PAID FOR BY THE PARENTS OUT OF POCKET. So understand....you don't pay for any of those things..the parents do. That's the reality!

[Eactly]

Jeesh - you finally get it! Yes - discounting school taxes for people without kids will definitely drive up the tax base for those with kids. DUH - that's the freaking point. You use more of the services, you pay more for them - like how commercial properties were being charged more then residential properties. You people with kids sound like all these welfare recipients who think they shouldn't have to give anything back to the population of people working to support them and their families while they reap the benefits of our hard work and we get nothing in return except the satisfaction of keeping the homeless people off our front porches.

How about another idea

Why dont we change the entire tax system and you only pay for services you use.

SO I dont get welfare or other benefits like that I get a credit for every benefit I dont use.

You dont drive then get a credit for any highway taxes.

You do use welfare. Because welfare exists you're not tripping over beggars in the street. You may not drive, but you depend on a highway system to get the goods you use to your store.

Exactly

just the same way you benefit from the education system and all the so called extras

[Be specific]

Exactly how does someone without children benefit? Your kids go to school - hang out waiting for you to get home from whereever you are - when they get older maybe they play sports - learn a musical instrument - the extras. They graduate. Go on to college - most likely out of state, then they move there permanently because they can't afford the school taxes those of us without children are forced to pay to raise and educate and provide them with their extras. How does that specifically benefit me, assuming I have no kids and pay the same school taxes you with the kids pay? Forget they I buy their girl scout cookies and their candy bars and their cakes and tickets to their lousy school plays I never actually go to?

Exactly how does someone without children benefit? Your kids go to school - hang out waiting for you to get home from whereever you are - when they get older maybe they play sports - learn a musical instrument - the extras. They graduate. Go on to college - most likely out of state, then they move there permanently because they can't afford the school taxes those of us without children are forced to pay to raise and educate and provide them with their extras. How does that specifically benefit me, assuming I have no kids and pay the same school taxes you with the kids pay? Forget they I buy their girl scout cookies and their candy bars and their cakes and tickets to their lousy school plays I never actually go to?

Read the point that was quoted. Just like someone who doesn't drive benefits from road taxes (as discussed) someone who has no children benefits from schol taxes because of what those kids go on to become.

Jeesh - you finally get it! Yes - discounting school taxes for people without kids will definitely drive up the tax base for those with kids. DUH - that's the freaking point. You use more of the services, you pay more for them - like how commercial properties were being charged more then residential properties. You people with kids sound like all these welfare recipients who think they shouldn't have to give anything back to the population of people working to support them and their families while they reap the benefits of our hard work and we get nothing in return except the satisfaction of keeping the homeless people off our front porches.

you are a very stupid ignorant person.....thank GOD you have no kids! You make no sense. The parents are paying for the extras not you dumb ass! we pay the same tax and WE pay for the extras.

[This is how]

Exactly how does someone without children benefit?

Look around. See all those educated adults living in nice homes working at jobs and paying their bills? THAT'S how you benefit. To get to that point in life they went to school. Most likely, public school that the public paid for.

You see that building on the LIE called Computer Associates? It's there because the kind of people required to fill those positions are here, on Long Island. Same with the technology incubator in Stonybrook.

If you want to see how you benefit from school taxes, take a trip into rural Mississippi. There you will fine a population where less than 600.00 a year gets you some land and access to public schools. Look over the wonderful trailor parks, the 3 bedroom saltbox ranches with 5 year olds playing in diapers. Look at their overall quality of life where the two income brackets are poor and poorer.

If that doesn't convince you, take a trip (shouldn't be too expensive) to any tropical 3rd world country. Where a small infection will likely lead to death. They have really cheap school taxes too.


Your kids go to school - hang out waiting for you to get home from whereever you are - when they get older maybe they play sports - learn a musical instrument - the extras. They graduate. Go on to college - most likely out of state, then they move there permanently because they can't afford the school taxes those of us without children are forced to pay to raise and educate and provide them with their extras. How does that specifically benefit me, assuming I have no kids and pay the same school taxes you with the kids pay? Forget they I buy their girl scout cookies and their candy bars and their cakes and tickets to their lousy school plays I never actually go to?

When 20 new homes go up in Lake Grove, or Syosett, or Islandia, it's likely they'll all sell to local residents. If they're already local homeowners, they'll sell that older home and it'll be purchased by someone most likely also from Long Island. Just because every graduate from a Long Island school doesn't end up living on Long Island and working within and contributing to our economy, doesn't make public education a waste and doesn't mean our school taxes don't benefit the public. Some graduates leave, never to return. Do you think if they didn't have an education they'd ever leave? And let's not forget about the new residents who come from other areas of the country, who also got their education from the public coffers. Are they screwing their local former communities who foot their education bills by abandoning them?

[Hymn - on that note]

If that's the case, then how come there isn't a school tax that benefits kids going to a state college? Whether or not you have kids going to college - I think everybody ought to chip in and pay for a free college education because that's what really gives people the jobs and the affluence that truly benefits all of us here in society.

If that's the case, then how come there isn't a school tax that benefits kids going to a state college? Whether or not you have kids going to college - I think everybody ought to chip in and pay for a free college education because that's what really gives people the jobs and the affluence that truly benefits all of us here in society.

Sure raise our taxes more to pay for that.

Exactly how does someone without children benefit? Your kids go to school - hang out waiting for you to get home from whereever you are - when they get older maybe they play sports - learn a musical instrument - the extras. They graduate. Go on to college - most likely out of state, then they move there permanently because they can't afford the school taxes those of us without children are forced to pay to raise and educate and provide them with their extras. How does that specifically benefit me, assuming I have no kids and pay the same school taxes you with the kids pay? Forget they I buy their girl scout cookies and their candy bars and their cakes and tickets to their lousy school plays I never actually go to?

Read the point that was quoted. Just like someone who doesn't drive benefits from road taxes (as discussed) someone who has no children benefits from schol taxes because of what those kids go on to become.

Don't do us any favors by buying the cookies candy bars and tickets to their plays...Which by the way are actually pretty good. We have quite a few incredible singers and actors in our school. You are missing out. Well thats probably because you are a conceited stuffed shirt eating mcdonalds everyday smoking cigarettes and watching child pornography. You sound like you hardly had an education at all much less any "extras". Its too bad, those extras might have made you a little less anti-kid!

[taxedout]

OK then if everyone benifits then EVERYONE should pay. The burden should not just fall on property owners. If you switched to an income tax then you would have more people paying and should be less of a burden. You dont have to own a home to vote in a school budget just be a resident what do you care youre not paying. Also just because a homes value increases dosent mean a homeowners income has. Many people out there who havent had a raise in years or have taken a cut in pay to keep a job. Would be much fairer than what a perceived value of your home is.

OK then if everyone benifits then EVERYONE should pay. The burden should not just fall on property owners. If you switched to an income tax then you would have more people paying and should be less of a burden. You dont have to own a home to vote in a school budget just be a resident what do you care youre not paying. Also just because a homes value increases dosent mean a homeowners income has. Many people out there who havent had a raise in years or have taken a cut in pay to keep a job. Would be much fairer than what a perceived value of your home is.

OKay well that actually makes sense! That is a fair statement. Although, not everyone will agree....it does make sense

[That's right]

If the burden of education doesn't stop at the elementary level but goes straight through to college - yes - everyone's taxes will be raised even more whether or not you have kids, or whether or not you have kids who go to college. That's exactly right. But it'll benefit everyone and those with kids in college won't have to bear the full cost of educating their college kids, just like those people with kids in the public school system don't have to bear the full cost of educating their own kids through high school graduation. But all of a sudden there's a quiet. Now you have parents of kids who can barely get through a public high school and who know their kids will not go to college and maybe not contribute anything at all to the community ever - they all of a sudden are saying - hey wait a minute. Why should my taxes raise to pay for your kid to go to college and get the good jobs that actually will make a difference in my community - the ones working at computer associates and running for public office and becoming engineers and doctors and judges! All of a sudden - these people don't like the idea that a school tax burden should be evenly spread among all people on the theory that all people, even those not taking advantage of the elementary and high school public school systems - should have to pay. Think about it.

[hedgehog]

Don't you realize that a chunk of your state taxes goes to funding the SUNY system, so you are paying for college whether you use it or not?

[General Pool]

Fine. But SUNY has to adjust it's budget and it's tuition up or down according to how much is given to it and how much it's spending. The difference is paid for by the students/parents actually attending. That's your discount. K12 school taxes directly rise related to the school budget going up and the increase is directly affecting all people - with kids in or out of the system. Incidentally, I don't think all you people realize that the posters, like myself, against people without children in the public school system have no children. For some reason that's what you assume. I think we should get a break on our school taxes too - I'm not childless - I have 4 but I'm sending them all to catholic school. I have no kids in the school system and all the extras those kids get - I have to either make private arrangements or pay extra for. I don't see the problem in giving back a credit for people without children in the system.

Fine. But SUNY has to adjust it's budget and it's tuition up or down according to how much is given to it and how much it's spending. The difference is paid for by the students/parents actually attending. That's your discount. K12 school taxes directly rise related to the school budget going up and the increase is directly affecting all people - with kids in or out of the system. Incidentally, I don't think all you people realize that the posters, like myself, against people without children in the public school system have no children. For some reason that's what you assume. I think we should get a break on our school taxes too - I'm not childless - I have 4 but I'm sending them all to catholic school. I have no kids in the school system and all the extras those kids get - I have to either make private arrangements or pay extra for. I don't see the problem in giving back a credit for people without children in the system.

There is no discount in your argument for SUNY as all taxpayers are paying the same tax.

[income tax]

use income tax :P

[catholicc]

use income tax and look like queens dont think so
vouchers for childless vouchers for private school same thing

[Income tax sux]

use income tax and look like queens dont think so
vouchers for childless vouchers for private school same thing

The only people advocating an income tax to fund public schools are the greedy self-serving senior citizens who have no income to tax. Keep in mind they're the ones who got us into this mess to begin with. They're the ones who allowed the school boards in the 60's and 70's to construct buildings like Taj Mahals with olympic swimming pools, 2 gymnasiums, and acres and acres of fields and playgrounds.

Today's seniors are the parents who demanded every district was to have a better program than the next, and higher teacher salaries than the last. That is, until their kids graduated and then suddenly, it's an about-face and they demand tax relief now that they have no use for the monsters they created.

As to the parents who send their kids to private schools... they're typical Long Islanders who want a benefit without having to pay for it. Generally, Long Islanders, especially those in the upper income brackets, have a overly severe sense of entitlement. They know their taxes are higher than the national average, but they think that because taxes are high, they're supposed to have every wish and need fulfilled imediately if not sooner.

They think every road should be repaved every year. They think every pole should have a light on it. They think every child age 18 deserves a brand new Camaro or Mustang. They think a new 2000.00 wardrobe every September for each child is normal. They think 10 year olds should carry cell phones in school. They have a 27" color television in every room of the house, every new video released has to be rented, and every new video game has to be purchased.

Open your eyes. The middle class is suffering all over the country. We're losing good jobs and we're losing them fast. We're gaining only low-paid, service sector employment. Cerro is becoming a mall. Grumman became a Home Depot. Let's get with the program, Long Island is no longer the place where a person can spin a compass on a sheet of paper and get paid 100 grand a year for doing it, along with a sweet pension.

Adults have to accept the fact that life isn't the fairy tale it once was, and public servants have to stop acting like and believing everyone on Long Island is pulling in 2 6-figure salaries.

[WiseSachem]

If you're gonna rip off my quotes, just get it right-

the guys and gals at Grumman, etc. got $100,000 federally funded jobs for TWIRLING a compass, not SPINNING a compass...

otherwise, good luck to you in your misery!

[income taxes]

lets do it :oops:

[DON'T WANT ANY KIDS]

"The only people advocating an income tax to fund public schools are the greedy self-serving senior citizens who have no income to tax. "



YOU THINK THOSE ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE?
THINK AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!
AND THIS TIME, DO IT IN 20 WORDS OR LESS.
I DIDN'T BOTHER READING ANYTHING AFTER THAT FIRST SENTENCE.

[Suny]

"There is no discount in your argument for SUNY as all taxpayers are paying the same tax."


DUH ! Now try and follow. Who pays tuition at SUNY? THE PEOPLE USING THE SCHOOL.

Who pays tuition for all the kids in your public school system.
EVERYONE !

We all share the SUNY burden through paying our share of the State Income Tax. But when that's not enough, the government doesn't send some yokel county executive around collecting money in a head in the form of a SUNY school tax increase. The state figured - EVERYONE has paid enough - our fair share. It tells SUNY to raise it's tuition and the increase in tuition is not a burden placed on EVERYONE - it's a burden placed on the people USING the system.

Get it NOW?

[Levinson's income tax]

You think the childless and the parents of private school kids and the propertyless are complaining now? Wait till they have to start paying an income tax. Good bye MOM - Good bye DAD - See ya GRAMS -- See ya GRAMPS -- adios SON -- syonara DAUGHTER

Then Wang and his Wangland 60 floor skyscrapers can import all the immigrants he wants and bus them over to the Suozziland Zoo.

[More income taxes?]

This plan on top of Suozzi's plan is just too damned much. Suozzi wants to pay nothing local toward medicaid and have the state pick up 100% of the medicaid tab. If the state does this, it'll have to raise state income taxes enough to do this. That means, Nassau County will have to subsidize the local portion of the Nassau County part, as well as, the local portion of the NYC part. The problem with that is that NYC now constitutes 70% of the cost of medicaid. Meaning, we will be picking up an unproportionate share of medicaid costs under Suozzi's plan. Just so the idiot can run around town spending our money on patronage deals and giving it away to his real estate developer and construction company friends and then Newsday can do PR articles about how we can now borrow more money at lower interest rates because our bonds are worth more? No thanks. Suozzi is an idiot and he's sure not looking out for the interests of Nassau County.

"There is no discount in your argument for SUNY as all taxpayers are paying the same tax."


DUH ! Now try and follow. Who pays tuition at SUNY? THE PEOPLE USING THE SCHOOL.

Who pays tuition for all the kids in your public school system.
EVERYONE !

We all share the SUNY burden through paying our share of the State Income Tax. But when that's not enough, the government doesn't send some yokel county executive around collecting money in a head in the form of a SUNY school tax increase. The state figured - EVERYONE has paid enough - our fair share. It tells SUNY to raise it's tuition and the increase in tuition is not a burden placed on EVERYONE - it's a burden placed on the people USING the system.

Get it NOW?

DUH

Read the argument

The argument was for a property tax discount for people with no children. So it would then make sens that there should be a discount for people not using SUNY

[Yeah so?]

Yeah so? What's your point? We're saying there is a discount. There is a discount. Your school taxes don't go up when SUNY needs more money. Your property taxes don't go up when SUNY's expenses increase. Your income taxes don't go up when SUNY"s budget falls short of its resources. That IS the point. They DON"T go up. The tuition goes up. Now maybe you are getting this huh? The other case, the public school high school kids - they pay nothing. It's free. The school taxes go UP. We all pay every time the high school had needs. WHY? The argument is - either these people with the hundred kids in the school system should have to pay something toward tuition - most of them sure aren't paying school taxes or income taxes or any other kinds of taxes - to give the rest of us a break from supporting them. Otherwise, at least give the ones who don't use public schools at all - a discount if you're gonna spread it all around to all property owners. That includes the childless and the private school kids. A rebate. Or to hell with free public school. Let them all pay a stipend or let them go back to Cuba.

Yeah so? What's your point? We're saying there is a discount. There is a discount. Your school taxes don't go up when SUNY needs more money. Your property taxes don't go up when SUNY's expenses increase. Your income taxes don't go up when SUNY"s budget falls short of its resources. That IS the point. They DON"T go up. The tuition goes up. Now maybe you are getting this huh? The other case, the public school high school kids - they pay nothing. It's free. The school taxes go UP. We all pay every time the high school had needs. WHY? The argument is - either these people with the hundred kids in the school system should have to pay something toward tuition - most of them sure aren't paying school taxes or income taxes or any other kinds of taxes - to give the rest of us a break from supporting them. Otherwise, at least give the ones who don't use public schools at all - a discount if you're gonna spread it all around to all property owners. That includes the childless and the private school kids. A rebate. Or to hell with free public school. Let them all pay a stipend or let them go back to Cuba.

State funding goes up to give more money to SUNY - my taxes go up -understand the discussion next time before you get everything wrong

[Guest - you are a fool]

Listen Guest - you are both rude and stupid. How many people on this thread have to explain things to you? You are just plain thick or plain stupid. NO YOU FREAKING IDIOT - YOUR TAXES ARE NOT GOING UP BECAUSE OF SUNY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why are you such a jackass. The whole point is that the TUITION GOES UP INSTEAD !!!!
It's really simple. Maybe that's why you troll on this website all day every day and all night every night and caused Lynbrook to get banned and the firefighter forum to get deleted. You are just an idiot. It's simple. But you refuse to give in to the fact that you are just plain wrong.

[Save your breath]

Stop wasting time arguing with the guy. He doesn't get it - never will. Whoever can read can see that. Let him say whatever he wants. Just drop it already.

[Breath on this though]

I can tell you this though - if Suozzi has his way putting up low income high rise apartment buildings everywhere and re-zoning places for residential apartments up over storefronts and letting Wang throw up a 60 story (taller that EAB building) in the heart of the busiest, most congested place on the long island - if all this happens - imagine what the population will become? The schools will have kids hanging from the rafters and you will pay for it all. What nassau needs now, to avoid a south brooklyn, south bronx, queens type citification - is somebody that is tuff on illegal immigration. We need a sign that says - sorry - all full - go home. That's what will save our schools, our kids and our surburban lifestyle. Not Suozzi.

[Just dont' fall behind]

Just don't fall behind on your school taxes or Suozzi will put a lock on the school door and send your kids on a bus to PS 147 in Queens.

[Size matters]

Point of measurement:

Nassau Medical Center = 20 stories high

EAB Plaza = 15 stories high

Hofstra dorms = 15 stories high

There high enough - nobody is REALLY going to build ONE sixty-story tower - but you can be darsure theyll be proposing twenty-one individual twenty-story buildings tho!

Yeah so? What's your point? We're saying there is a discount. There is a discount. Your school taxes don't go up when SUNY needs more money. Your property taxes don't go up when SUNY's expenses increase. Your income taxes don't go up when SUNY"s budget falls short of its resources. That IS the point. They DON"T go up. The tuition goes up. Now maybe you are getting this huh? The other case, the public school high school kids - they pay nothing. It's free. The school taxes go UP. We all pay every time the high school had needs. WHY? The argument is - either these people with the hundred kids in the school system should have to pay something toward tuition - most of them sure aren't paying school taxes or income taxes or any other kinds of taxes - to give the rest of us a break from supporting them. Otherwise, at least give the ones who don't use public schools at all - a discount if you're gonna spread it all around to all property owners. That includes the childless and the private school kids. A rebate. Or to hell with free public school. Let them all pay a stipend or let them go back to Cuba.

Yeah so? What's your point? We're saying there is a discount. There is a discount. Your school taxes don't go up when SUNY needs more money. Your property taxes don't go up when SUNY's expenses increase. Your income taxes don't go up when SUNY"s budget falls short of its resources. That IS the point. They DON"T go up. The tuition goes up. Now maybe you are getting this huh? The other case, the public school high school kids - they pay nothing. It's free. The school taxes go UP. We all pay every time the high school had needs. WHY? The argument is - either these people with the hundred kids in the school system should have to pay something toward tuition - most of them sure aren't paying school taxes or income taxes or any other kinds of taxes - to give the rest of us a break from supporting them. Otherwise, at least give the ones who don't use public schools at all - a discount if you're gonna spread it all around to all property owners. That includes the childless and the private school kids. A rebate. Or to hell with free public school. Let them all pay a stipend or let them go back to Cuba.

.

welcome to America. land of the overtaxed.

[sos 06]

welcome to America. land of the overtaxed. :cry: