High cost of SCPD

[real cost]

the real cost is about 500.00 a year per household. dont forget the average household income is well over 60 grand.in fact 60 in todays age you might not get by. unless you're living with your parents.suffolk is well off why not pay their employees likewise?

[well off pd]

because then people get jealous and post about our salaries.lol

[suffolkfirst]

Does anyone care that it costs over $1,030,000.PER DAY for the Suffolk County Police Department?!?!?! that's right - PER DAY!!! OVER ONE MILLION DOLLARS for 1.4 million people....is it worth it?
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[worker]

real cost- you are right, but what about 90% of Suffolk's employees who make dirt. Take parks police salaries for example, from what I understand is that they go through the exact same training as the Suffolk county police- I believe it is state mandated- and looking at their contract, their top salary is 58,000-not to bad- but then factor in that it takes them 12 years to get to top pay and that number begins to not look so good. -For those of you who think they do nothing, you are wrong, as I hear them on the radio- they get their share of work. When people learn that you are a county employee, they often think you have it great-people do not know that w/ the exception of a few Dept's i.e. police, most have it far from great.

[fairly paid]

Correct me if i'm wrong but dont you voluntarily sign up to take a test for whatever county job you may have? And dont you also then have to agree to take that job before getting hired? I mean they dont MAKE you take the job, do they?
Shouldnt the individual who takes whatever county job have an idea of the pay scale and structure prior to taking the job? And if not satisfied with said income, isnt it not his or her responsibility to themselves as to whether or not to take said job? People take these jobs, then complain about what others make. It's silly, YOU took the job, nobody forced you. What i'm saying here is is there a point to what you are saying? Yes, pay wages throughout the county are different. they are different in the city, they are different in the fed. govt. and private sector as well. I work in the private sector, I knew what my pay and benefits were prior to working there, and if I dont like it, or the grass is greener somewhere else, I'd move on. Perhaps you should do so as well.

[accept it]

I paid $857.00 this year for Suff. police. Up 9.8% from last year when it was only $780.00. Nothing you can do about it. I like living here so I will pay taxes till I die like the saying goes.

[suffolkfirst]

absolute arrogance - I hope that leads to the downfall of the attitudes held by those who posted?!?! like it or leave it?!?! some Attitude....since when did those who you swore to serve and protect become the slaves?????!!! THE REAL COST IS MORE THAN $$450.M annual buget - THAT's OVER A MILLION DOLLARS A DAY NICE TRY....bottom line none of your blue drivel!!!!!! I never said it was a menial job....at $100K after year 2...no one would consider it menial - ARROGANCE = SCPD:">
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[huh]

my police tax last year was $373.54. My vounteer fire dept was $150.27. What is that 40 percent of my police tax for volunteers. Those vollies deserve it. no problem. My library tax is $166.95!!!! Are you kidding me. That is my library tax! Let's see, police --library tax? When you call someone to come help you, and just may GIVE his/her life, is it the libraian who is responding. The police are here 24/7 enforcing the laws, dwi, vtl protection of my home. Yes things are expensive, but some of you better get a grip.
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[waste of money]

Quote:Does anyone care that it costs over $1,030,000.PER DAY for the Suffolk County Police Department?!?!?! that's right - PER DAY!!! OVER ONE MILLION DOLLARS for 1.4 million people....is it worth it?
No its not, take the example of Jacksonville, Florida, Charleston County, South Carolina, Las Vegas/Clark County, Nevada and soon to be all 6 counties of metro Atlanta, Georgia and merge the Suffolk County Police Dept. into the Suffolk County Sheriff's Office as was done in all the above places.

[bitterman]

What other County service can you name that directly benefits every person in Suffolk County? School taxes for example which are 50% of your property taxes only directly benefit the people actually using the school. Same goes for the county Medicare costs.
You can at any time pick up your phone and have a Suffolk County police officer at your door, 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
My police taxes are about $900 a year that’s somewhere in the vicinity of $2.50 a day.
If you make the police department a $9.00 a hour job, you will get the same people who work at your local Wal Mart.
Our Police Officers carry guns, and hold a great responsibilities to the public. You must pay them the same as any other skilled worker. Plumbers Electricians and other skilled workers make the same kind of money our Police Officers do.

[plainview guy]

Bitterman - wrong on your first point. A better school district benefits EVERYBODY and is reflected in higher property values. You are getting a return on your investment.

[waste of money]

you're advocating a pay raise for the sherriffs? include the parks too. you realize that that is the only way you can merge pd and deps. to keep them at their current salary and make them do our work isnt going to happen.
and we certainly aint taking a pay cut.
suffolk1st u need to chill taxes and death...
no arrogance just facts, before you buy a house out here look at the taxes, realize you will be living in a fairly high income county. of course the civil service jobs pay better than most. if u cant afford it live elsewhere

[Old Goat]

As a childless senior citizen on a fixed income who has been paying school taxes for close to 50 years please enlighten me as to how a better school district has benefited me. Forty four years ago the 5 western town police merged into the SCPD. Explain to me how your foolish plan of merging with sheriffs would be so much better! The police part of my taxes is the best deal in town. Next time some crack cocaine crazed scoundrel comes kicking in your door or one of your loved one's, assuming anyone could love you, maybe you could debate the merits of salaries with the officers that show up to save your ungrateful butt. Where did you invent your $ figures from anywhoot. Sounds like a bunch of malarky to me, you dodo bird.

[huh]

Yes good schools increase house values, but how about a good police department and low crime? Don't you think that also does the exact same thing.
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[SCPD not NCPD]

PLAINVIEW in Nassau county ?????

[suffolkfirst]

...it's public information the numbers are accurate - it's not malarky - ITS FACT! - and I am not a dodo; I have lived here my entire life and find the high cost of law enforcement in Suffolk County EXHORBITANT. It is irresponsible for any citizen, resident, taxpayer NOT to question the costs. IT IS OVER A MILLION DOLLARS A DAY. I have not said we don't get service - I question the cost. Please don't tell me to bleed to death or call a dog catcher when I need a cop - that's childish!

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[huh]

I don't disagree with your right to your opinion, but please if the cost factor for scpd outrages you, for an agency that is available 24/7 and is wiling to risk his/her life for you, how do you feel about your school taxes, your library tax, your volunteer fire department tax etc.? when you put them against each other, the return that you receive as a citizen, don't you think it is appropriate? somehow I get the impression you are just jealous of their saliries, or perhaps some other reason. please tell. If it is taxes in genereal, please post your outrage against the other tax receiving agencies also. I think the cost you cite is well worth it when you COMPARE it to the other tax levys we receive. just be fair, that's all. otherwise your critizism is not based on the facts but some personal agenda.
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[suffolkfirst]

a million dollars a day for a 2600 person police force is something each and every resident in this County should be looking at! there is NO personal agenda or jealousy - that's a petty response - if I had wanted to be a police officer I would have. I am grateful that many people are willing to do the job - JUST as I'm grateful for correction officers, VOLUNTEER firefighters, paid firefighters, teachers, ambulance personnel, doctors - hell we ALL have something to contribute! I am completely offended at the arrogant attitude that is pervasive in the police department and am horrified at the "pay your taxes or leave it attitude." They are the ONLY county department that is above scrutiny!! Many divisions have MANDATORY DAILY OVERTIME for clerical staff!!! there's lots and lots of waste in the PD and it needs to be looked at - JUST LIKE EVERY COUNTY DEPARTMENT, EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT, EVERY TAXING JURISDICTION. I find it very very interesting that there is such a vitrilolic posture without questioning - to me that's dangerous
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[bitterman]

You have an absolute right to question the costs of public services. And apparently this has brought much debate. But facts are facts, the Police department is not the largest budget buster in the county. Medicare/Education is.
Even if you could wave your magic wand and reduce the Police Department taxes in half, it would save the average taxpayer only $1.00 per day. (The price of a cup of coffee) I and I think most taxpayers are willing to pay the current level of Police Taxes for the excellent service we receive. If you have a problem with the service, you may have had a better argument.

[other costs]

dont forget the cost of the pd includes, all the civil jobs, buildings,electric, gas, water equipment, car, boat helicopter,etc fleet, all the mgt positions, lodging medical, and food for the customers we have,(perps).

[off duty]

as a retired city cop, i believe they are being fairly paid, its all the fluff draining the budget, as a whole the patrol officers are excellent. they work in a affluent county, they should reap the rewards.
personally i believe they are understaffed or improperly utilized. too many specialized units not enough patrol officers, houses going up by the hundreds and no change in sectors, patrol since 1980s. too much white shirts not enough blue

[suffolkfirst]

i'm well aware of the "extra" costs and never said that the issue was only PD salaries(which I do think are the highest in the Country - not sure though) please keep in mind that the 5 eastern towns ARE NOT included in the police buget!!! I see by reading these threads that the PD Unions are correct by saying the public will PAY anything for their service and that leaves no negotiating room for Suffolk County - again this is what's dangerous about this kind of thinking. On the matter of better deployment - less white and more blue - that's one of the issues I'm talking about. Someone has to have the courage to take this apart and rebuild it.
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[scpd number 1]

actually the current admin is looking into updating the current "look" of the pd. also heavily favors specialized units. that means more p.os, bosses, detectives, cars, dogs, trains, planes , equipment... you get it.
as far as our pay, in our own county, we trail most village, some town, in the state, some nassau village, and port authority, so we are lucky to be in the top 15, let alone the top 10. on the flip side suffolk is easily in the top 5 most wealthy counties, probably even if you chop off the 5 towns. not that im complaining, mind you.
interesting thing, within the next 5-10 years expect to see more of a county involvement in fire/rescue heading towards a fully paid staff, supplemented by the vollies. that double whammy will increase your taxes by 300+.
dont forget our contract expires in 3 years, expect at least another 10% raise there too.
sounds too expensive, might be time to consider a move.

[suffolkfirst]

and where will you be taking your pension when you leave scpd1???? if you keep telling us all to move, who will pay your salaries?!?!?!
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[easy answer]

the people that can afford living here. my house is paid for already dont fret about me. just gotta get a scholarship for 1 of my kids we'll be better than fine

[average scpd]

i think its funny. my neighbor delivers bread for fink bread does it at nite finishes in 5 hours, clears 85,000.
the guy on the other side is a licensed electrician, charges 50+ a hour, just started his own business. has a contract with 3-4 businesses already.
i am no better or worse than them, but i am a cop. why should i make less? yeah its cheesy to say but i occasionally respond to true life/death situations. more than occasionally physical force.
yet because of where i live, the EXHORBIANT salary i have is fairly average. and no i dont live in belle terre, old field, head of the harbor. i live in a fairly average house, neighborhood, town. in fact i would term my salary as fairly average for suffolk

[blue4life]

I am a suffolk resident and do think scpd derserves the pay they get, but u are mistaken scpd makes more than papd we are 75000 base u 87000 for 2004. Just to make a point most papd would leave 4 scpd me included

[Debbie4u]

interesting thread fellas
just wandering which villages, towns, counties in nassau and suffolk pay more than SCPD? how much do they pay?
I thought suffolk made the most
Thank you gentleman
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[Wondering]

I live in the Smithtown/Brookhaven area, If no one can afford to live here, who is buying all these Brand New houses here? There are plenty and they are all selling.
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[scpd number 1]

people selling their nassau homes for 800,000 and getting these for 450,000. its not that people cant afford to live out here, just middle class is getting squeeeeezed out

[way]

never thought of it that way but yeah if you write 15-20, get couple 511s, 1-2 arrests, you probably are making the county close to your salary. throw in the money courts, lawyers, insurance cos, how many people are living well off our work?
the next question is where does all your taxes go? probably fundraisers for stevie, dinner parties for the white shirts?

[Catch22]

If they want to save money in the SCPD or use it more wisely, then they should get rid of the Cope units. The biggest hi-light of their job is to attend a parade. It's a total waste of money and manpower.

[You are so Wrong]

funny my best friend in cope writes 100 a month has 150+ arrests for the year, chaching, hes probably not even the highest. im fairly average patrol and im around 20-25 monthly with around 25 arrests

[Mathematician]

funny my best friend in cope writes 100 a month has 150+ arrests for the year,

Let's look at the numbers quoted by the 'psycho suffolk police im-poster'.

150 arrests in the first 8 months of 2004. That averages out to about 19 arrests a month.

Which means according the the 'psycho suffolk cop im-poster's stats, his officer friend spends 19 tours a month making arrests.

Considering most cops only work 20 tours a month, I'd say this is either amazing police work or the person who claims a cop made 150 arrests this year is full of doggie-doo.

[Not COPE]

Unbelievable STATS, not really. Some COPE guys do almost nothing other then look for drug arrests. 1, 2, 3 bodies at a time is not unusual. 2-3 arrests a day is also not unusual. Field Appearance Tickets opposed to a physical arrest is also not unusual. 150 arrest is quite possible when not answering any of our 850,000 (I don't doubt on hitting this year) calls a year. Lets not forget how much Grant money OT is used for even more drug arrests.

[Catch22]

Not in my neighborhood. And that must be the Long Cope Ranger. The only one out there.

[me the imposter]

150 arrests = get a guy w/ suspended license, find some pot,drug paraphenalia,maybe pipe, bong, draw seperate # for all 4 arrests 1 body,
they get the fresh warrants, most chuckleheads hvae 2-3, same as above equals 7 arrests 1 body. yeah every one thinks nim neighborhood, little do you know.
2 other guys on his team are over 100, with several close, and remember the minimum paper is around 70.
the best part for them is not dealing with the b/s calls from the whiny taxpayers such as yourself

[Pick 6]

Believe it or not, those numbers aren't that outrageous. Some of the COPE guys in the 6th pct are doing exactly those kind of numbers. They are locking up every 511 they find and grabbing all the fresh warrants from back in CCU before they ever hit the sector cars and just like a previous poster said drawing a different cc# for every charge. Thus 1 guy who is 511 can wind up being 4 arrests for a COPE guy. It is not surprising that most of these cops were doing the same exact thing when they were in a sector car for a whole 2 yrs and were never in service to handle their calls. So it really isn't that much of a loss for patrol that they went to cope.

[WAKE UP]

where you live st patricks cathedral? get your head out your butt, if u only knew the amount of crime going on around you.
6th does things just like the 4th, 5th? huh
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[Empty Suits]

Is a collosal waste of time and extra work. The only purpose is to boost some no load empty suits #s when his boss hits arrstats. 32s for 511 should be used as a tool not as a means to OT or boosting your arrstats to 150 for the year. Who do you think you are really kidding. Save the whine of getting a dangerous suspended driver off the road. That BS may sound good to the civilians, but WE know otherwise. Stop chasing the carrrot, your NOPE Sgt. will be riding high on the work you did to his next tit gig long before they throw you a bone and let you see the inside of command X20. NOPE is hear to stay because way back when Stevie had some whiney Bayport soccer mom demand that he compel the PD to do something about skate boarders etc. Stevie was able to get Bobby to have his NOPE unit do something about it. News flash I wonder how thrilled the taxpayers would be to find out how many man hours are wasted on window dressing like having COPE cops crossing the political elite in the streets in front of their fundraisers. The knife slices both ways since they are equally wasted for the Reps and the Dems. That waste wont end anytime soon since it curry's favor w/ the political machine of both parties when it comes to dealing w/ the PD. Doesn't the taste of kissing azz make you feel like like a chump or do you just soothe it w/ a new H2 or another vacation.

[On the Other Hand]

Let's look at the numbers quoted by the 'psycho suffolk police im-poster'.

150 arrests in the first 8 months of 2004. That averages out to about 19 arrests a month.

Which means according the the 'psycho suffolk cop im-poster's stats, his officer friend spends 19 tours a month making arrests.

Considering most cops only work 20 tours a month, I'd say this is either amazing police work or the person who claims a cop made 150 arrests this year is full of doggie-doo.
you are forgetting you can arrest more than 1 per tour, and the person can face multiple charges. personally i heard of some sector guys over 100, well over in fact. should not suprise anyone, the ''teet'' job that suffolk used to be is long gone, the virus of humanity has spread out here, between the rednecks, white trash, bangers and no-speakies, not much different than nassau which is not much different than the city.

[u can tell]

they're the ones calling every 5 minutes. dirtbikes, quads, loose dogs,sick squirrels, neighbor, landlord/tenant, family disputes, these dipwads dont know how to relax. thye want documentation of everything. then they complain "i moved out here for the peace and quiet" my answer, "i've worked this sector for 7 years its never been quiet" LOL

[are the ones you see]

Police budget for 5 WESTERN TOWNS in Suffolk...$410Million...not made up numbers...more than a million dollars a day for only 1/2 the County....:">

[getreal]

You like to quote numbers when they suit you. How about telling the truth. The five western towns contian the bulk of the Suffolk County population. In addition, the Eastern Towns gay for and use SCPD services like Marine Bureau, Aviation, Homicide Squad, etc. The "Police Budget" also does not exist seperately. It is billed by itself but goes into the general fund. The $410 million pays for over 3000 cops. Ask Steve Levy where all the extra money goes.
________
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[your tax bill]

The budget for the Suffolk County Police is NOT a dedicated budget, as is Nassau Police budget. This means that politicians are "free" to raid the budget and use the police funding for whatever pet projects and shortfalls in other agencies that they want without any approval needed from the tax paying public. So those tax dollars are going to many other agencies other than the intended police protection that Suffolk taxpayers think they are paying for.

[whats the big deal]

i live in suffolk county. i own a nice house in a nice area.
i pay 600.+ a year in taxes for the police. it comes with the territory. no offense to city dwellers, i'd rather pay double or triple and live out here. and no offense to the city cops, i've had some dealings with the cops, on the road, at my business and my house. suffolk cops in general are nt that bad. maybe because i'm not a crook. yes the highway cops have no heart, but that is their job, and thats probably true anywhere. i think its crude for anyone to say dont like it leave, but really what else can you do?

[scpd patrol]

You are absolutely correct! The pols rob Peter to pay Paul. We need a dedicated police fund, it's about time!
________
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[deuce]

Seen recently at the radio shop in Hauppauge, old, beat up cars having PD equipment installed.Why??? Because these are the wrecks that the legislature have no more use for since the ALL got NEW Crown Vics......and those cars are paid for out of the POLICE BUDGET. (not bad to get a new car, free gas, pay no insurance...for a part time job on the taxpayers dime)
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[suffolkfirst]

now I understand your attitudes....you're ALL COPS...duhuh...why would you be objective?!?!!? or TELL THE TRUTH FOR THAT MATTER...what's that course in the academy called...The Civilians are all stupid 101....
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[pug ma thon]

You've seen the textbook, your picture is on the cover. Thanks !!!!!

[scpd1st]

good then your done, go work to support me, i need a new boat

[wadingriverpatrol]

its actually called: never enter a room that has more people than you have bullets. which is for most of us 46.

[thisisgreat]

suffolk pd is a joke....the only thing they put on the line is they're waist sizes by sitting in their cars and doing didly....but u gotta hand it to them......when getting paid 109 grand after 5 years, why not join up? i mean cmon...if they were interested in real police work they would go to nypd

[ok]

u failed the test loser

[the big joke]

I PAY TAXES TOO GET A GRIP

[Taxpayer]

DISBAND SCPD
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[scpd patrol]

And replace it with what?? or should we revisit the wild west?
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[TAXES TOO]

YEAH OK AND DO YOU WANT TO BE THE NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN?

[scpd patrol]

I was looking for a more detailed answer regarding the earlier post.
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[Taxi]

WHY DON'T YOU TAKE OVER?

[High Taxes]

Dept of Public Safety

disband SCPD (by attrition) and merge all
Police/Sheriff/Parks under one umbrella.

Works in Westchester County - might reduce taxes by reducing duplication.

Of course this will NEVER HAPPEN cause of police union lobbying etc but we can dream of lower taxes.

[birdie]

What exactly do you mean by attrition? And who is going to provide police protection while the department is being attritted? You want to merge the police, sheriffs and park police, who will pay for the training so that all are qualified to perform the wide range of services that each department is responsible for? Once you merge the three departments you will have to pay them all the same amount. The sheriffs and park police make less than SCPD. There goes your savings. You won't decrease upper management because the three agencies all do very different jobs. You will still need those people to supervise the people doing those jobs. Combining the agencies won't reduce the number of employees either. If you want to save money on your taxes pay more attention to your local school budget. My school taxes are almost ten times as much as my police tax. The waste and fraud is criminal. My garbage and fire district tax are not far behind my police tax. So check all your facts and educate yourself before you go spouting off about things you know nothing about.
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[High Taxes]

School Taxes are another issue - Wrong place-Wrong Thread-Wrong time. You can take that one on and they should also be merged for savings.

OK I forgot one part - eliminate titles of Police Officer and Deputy Sheriff (have to eliminate Sheriff also) and create new title of Public Safety Officer or similar. Pay would be around $75k tops to start.

You would need less Officers in total making less with less duplication services under one command and control structure equals taz savings. How could you not see this guy.

Same thing with schools. Merge districts, consolidate, use buying power of larger districts and taxes would fall.

You have to think big picture birdie.

[birdie]

$75,000 top pay? What are you going to do when 2700 SCPD officers making MUCH more than that quit to take another job so they can pay their bills. I am looking at the big picture "guy". Your solution while simplistic and attractive to people who are not informed would be a disaster if it was implemented. Costs would actually go up. Read my previous post, it explains why. The effect on public safety while you hire and train new "public safety officers" to replace the ones who left cannot even be imagined. The effect afterwards would be equally calamitous.
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[Yeah right]

Birdie is absolutley right. You have way too much time on your hands to think of something like this that would never happen in a million years. So stop talking about it and wasting everyones time. Sad but true.
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[NO MORE SCPD]

Abolish SCPD and merge its officers into Sheriff's Dept. and in doing so we could cut maybe 1,000 current SCPD officers, also everyone would have to revert to the sheriff's pay system which is lower then SCPD.

[birdie]

You people are delusional!!!! Eliminate 1000 officers???? Both agencies are shorthanded already. Where are you coming up with this stuff? Revert to sheriff's pay? Go back and read my previous post. It's a shame there is no minimum level of intelligence necessary to post here. We all could be spared the innane comments and ideas some of these idiots are espousing.
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[scpd patrol]

I can understand complaining about taxes, but what I see before me on the screen is currently unfeasable and unrealistic. Sorry, guys, but birdie is right.

Cuts were made during the last administration. Many hq posts were civilianized, disbanded, or combined with other posts.

One area that could be looked at as a cost saving measure would be to hold off transfers/promotions. If Levy worked with the SOA and DEA regarding their numbers (manpower) that would leave more officers on the street. More officers in the patrol division would keep manpower OT costs down. It may not totally eliminate it, but it would save money.

In the past, classes were postponed, and as a result , OT costs soared. I guess the dept felt it was cheaper to pay OT than to have the dept fully staffed.
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[SOA]

What happened SCPD Patrol? Didn't do too well on the last Sgt's test?

[Bravo Six]

It has been a long time since I posted here but one thing for sure, Birdie is right. We went back and forth some time back so this will come as a surprise.
A merger with the Sheriff could be feasible but it would not eliminate the duties either the SCPD or Sheriff Deps/COs have to perform or the manpower needed. Both the departments are undermanned as it is. The SCPP would love a merger with either dept as a huge raise would result. Well deserved I might ad.

[scpd patrol]

LOL I didn't take it. Having too much fun working.

I was pointing out what I felt may be $$ saving measures rather than abolishing the entire dept as others have posted.
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[lexordo]

I think the whole premise of a Suffolk County Department of Public Safety is ludicrous but so is 2,700 Suffolk police officers resigning to take other jobs, rather than accept 75k annually, for the following reasons:

1. Less than a third of those PO's would command a job paying more than 75k annually.

2. Many would be too scared of the prospect of having to "work" for a living. Now I know police work has its moments, but most of us perish the thought of only having two weeks of annual vacation, working till 65 years of age, or getting our balls busted by some prick who got to be supervisor through nepotism.

3. Promise 2,700 NYPD officers 75k, working equipment, an ideal location to work, and a public that treats you with respect and those slots would be filled with the cream of the NYPD crop. 20 and out would no longer be a part of their vocabulary.


In the end those 2,700 Suffolk Cops wouldn't leave, they just have to sell the second home, and pass up on leasing a 2004 Tahoe.
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[deuce]

Spew your bitterness and jealousy. Its hysterical. Whats the matter, didn't pass the Nassau or Suffolk psych?? Guy, you sound like a fool. 2nd home !!!!! 2004 Tahoe !!! Nice try. Go back to handing out radios and telling war stories to 21 year olds who you actually think care.
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[birdie]

Where is Lexordo getting his numbers from? I know if I was faced with a 50% pay cut I would be gone and so would almost everyone else. For crying out loud it would be a pay cut for alot of NYPD cops. 2nd house and a Tahoe? I am what can be considered "comfortable" and that takes two incomes and I only have one house and no Tahoe. We have many officers with college degrees in engineering, law, accounting etc. The majority of Suffolk cops could go somewhere else and command more than 75K. I don't know about you but I do work for a living. If you're not a cop you are just a jealous idiot. If you are a cop then you are a pathetic idiot. I really hope it's the former and not the latter because I wouldn't want to work around you and I bet nobody else would either.
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[lexordo]

Deuce, Birdie -

I agree, it's a ridiculous conversation, but please. I have family members otj out there: One just bought a house in Laurel Hollow, has a new Lincoln, a house in Brooklyn, a new car for his wife; another lives in a 2200 sq ft. house in Hauppauge, new truck, wife with a new truck, ohh, and traveled to both coasts of the United States to find the classic mint condition automobile he wanted, which he bought. Your idea of "comfortable" and mine are different. And don't get me wrong, I love these guys but they tell me what you guys already know - it's a racket! Take a look around the parking lot of the next cop bar you go to, you'll see what i'm saying. As for everyone leaving, that's where you and I will have to disagree. Those benefits out there are HUGE and a lot of people would be hesitant to give them up.
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[Reality]

and he either has another source of income or is in debt up to his eyeballs....

[birdie]

Anyone with 20 plus years is gone. No one would hang around and have their pension decimated by the pay cut you propose. You conveniently for get about civil service laws and collective bargaining agreements. Assuming you're fantasy could be made reality that means all the chiefs, inspectors, almost all the captains, lieutenants and sergeants would leave. Who is going to run things after they leave. Are you going to make some sergeant with 10 years on a chief? You are going to lose all the detectives in the specialized commands such as homicide, arson, robbery, etc. Who are you going to replace them with? Most detectives have 20 years on and would be leaving. Nevermind the PO's who have their 20, they're gone too. Anyone with close to 20 is also gone. I would take my pension now at a little less than 50% instead of letting your pay cut destroy it. Right off the bat you're lokking at about 1500 people gone. That doesn't even include the people who are disillusioned or the people who just left another job that pays more than 75K. As for your relatives on otj, what do you know? My brother thinks I'm rich too. Maybe your "relative" married into money that you're not aware of. I wouldn't tell you either. Anyone can have the lifestyle you mentioned if they have a 3rd mortgage, max out all their credit or are just plain irresponsible. Bottom line is they won't have it for long. I know how much I make and I know what I can afford. Anyone making the same as me can afford the same as me. So take your audacious presumptions and go find another thread.
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[lexordo]

You conveniently for get about civil service laws and collective bargaining agreements.

NO BIRDIE, I DID NOT CONVENIENTLY FORGET ABOUT ANYTHING - THIS WAS A RIDICULOUS, HYPOTHETICAL TOPIC FROM THE BEGINNING. MY POINT WAS: YOUR ASSUMPTION THAT 2,700 SCPD OFFICERS COULD LEAVE THE DEPT. TOMORROW FOR HIGHER PAYING JOBS IS A FANTASY.


Assuming you're fantasy could be made reality that means all the chiefs, inspectors, almost all the captains, lieutenants and sergeants would leave.

AGAIN, NOT MY FANTASY BUT, HOW MANY OF THESE RETIRED GUYS ARE MAKING 30K AS DIRECTOR OF SECURITY FOR A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR SHOPPING MALL? SURE, THOSE WITH HOOKS COULD GET A BETTER JOB BUT SCHAEFFER CAN ONLY JUSTIFY SO MANY PATRONAGE HIRES IN BABYLON. (AND YES, I DO UNDERSTAND SOME OF THESE GUYS GET GREAT JOBS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AFTER RETIREMENT WHICH ARE BASED ON MERIT, BUT NOT AS MANY AS YOU PROCLAIM.)


So take your audacious presumptions and go find another thread.
the big joke


"PRESUMPTIONS" - YOUR OWN GUY HERE SAYS 109K AFTER YEAR TWO. 130K PLUS AT TOP PAY. IF MY RELATIVES ARE IN HOCK IT WON'T BE FOR MUCH LONGER.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is u think we care what u think
hate to correct you, but you should be at 109 by year 2, 3rd the latest.otherwise you are not working o/t.
top pay is like117 by the way. easiest way is collar some fake criminal around 1430 and milk 3-4 hours(which becomes 6). i've done this 17 out of 38 of my fake police arrests. oh 4 of them were wanted out of the city, they were the biggest crybabies,hah. im way over 125,000 doing as u put it nothing, and we have 3 steps left on this contract. the next contract should put us over 130. funny we have a old timer telling us all we do is work out all day, and we have a insecure deadend job cophater telling us we're fat, gee, i guess im bulimic.


FINALLY, ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR GUYS DISAGREES WITH YOU, BY SAYING IF YOU WANT TO BE A COP IT SHOULDN'T MATTER WHAT YOU MAKE. ACCORDING TO HIM 60K IS ENOUGH, DO YOU THINK HE WILL LEAVE IF HE ONLY MADE 75K?


Mr Gump
Reply not about the money
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you truly have a desire to been a cop..60 k a year shouldnt matter, its not about the money...its about desire. I was a cop in the city because I wanted to be a cop... im fortunate enough to be out in Suff now...



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[birdie]

So I guess if you have a "relative" who's a physician it qualifies you to make recommendations about how a hospital should be run? How much to pay the doctors, nurses and the administrative staff. Who to retain and who to let go. I guess you could also arrange the merger with other hospitals. Supplies and equipment that would be needed etc. You could even arrange their training.It is simply amazing to me how people with a little bit of information think they're experts. "Gee, I have a relative who's on the job so that qualifies me to set policy". You can cut and paste all the quotes you want. Bottom line is you have no idea what you are talking about so go talk to another "relative" to find the next topic you can be an "expert" about.
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[scpd102]

i think the biggest problem u'll have with this is convincing all the other leos not to take nassau/suffolk county or town pay rather than get us to cut back, never happen

[NYPD]

''Promise 2,700 NYPD officers 75k, working equipment, an ideal location to work, and a public that treats you with respect and those slots would be filled with the cream of the NYPD crop. 20 and out would no longer be a part of their vocabulary''
what is in the city now isnt the cream of the crop, MOST of them have left for nassau/suffolk jobs.
my buddy flunked psyche 1998, THEY called him, offered him a job 2 years ago. i left in the last scpd class, everyone i know from the city either took the job or trying to get on.
it isnt the money, the workload isnt very different,so enough of that crap, ill tell you you suffolk people are no better than city, just different . its the UNION, and how the bosses treat us.in the city you'd have to call a boss for every freaking alarm, just to cya.
i also know guys on the job out here, renting apts, driving 1995 toyotas, top salary, and no hes not banking it all 120,00 a year is a average salary out here.
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[lexordo]

I try to make it a point not to castigate another mos on this thread, after all this is all just bs. However, you make it rather difficult for me not to do so after reading your consistent venomous attacks. And now, this drivel about physicians and administration, and policy? I would say THAT was a terrible analogy, especially since the topic is a hypothetical subjective.

As for my qualifications to have an opinion: In addition to having an @#%$ and being an mos, I have a Master's Degree in Management (which includes coursework in Leadership, Public Policy, and Human Resource Administration).

Finally, I will cut and paste to show you were your logic is so skewed that even your fellow officers disagree with the points you've highlighted. You can be dismissive of those points but that stance goes to further show that you cannot substantiate your rationale, and prefer to throw bombs rather than articulate why you disagree with someone. The latter of which surprises me because you are a professional problem solver.

I am not going to pursue this topic anymore. In addition to it being unfeasible, you are like talking with an ultra-liberal Kerry lover; No matter what anyone says, or how much common sense is thrown your way - you will always be right.
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[birdie]

Take your masters??? and you know what. As I said before you have no idea what you're talking about. I feel like I'm trying to explain calculus to a goldfish. You are that ignorant. I'm done with you, you fool.
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[ok]

this happens 75000 to start, after the 1st contract it'll be 80-85000 2nd 85000 -90000 etc, then what?

[Taxpayer]

I crunched some numbers and realized that it aint gonna work (it wasnt happening either way)-besides you would need all LEOS in Suffolk on board and that also isnt happening.

There would be a savings in the beginning but a very small one and probably cost as much or more in the long run.

I have other issues but no need to DISBAND SCPD. (at least not now)


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[close call]

thanks skippy we were all worried for about 1 second, now back to your fantasy world.
we'll all cancel our retirements, im ever so grateful to you.

[Taxpayer]

BITE ME
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[no]

no way
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[lmstech]

it has always concerned me that the high salary of scpd might someday come back and bite them. After nearly 27 years of living in Suffolk, I have to say the level of experience and service given by them is by far the best of any county worker. I have worked along side them for 8 years while I was an aemt with Dix Hill, and have called them for my own needs. They have alway been there to serve, 100% of the time. You have to pay for the best. Only the market attitude will determine if it is too much, that is why we have elections. Take this test. Stop police and fire services tomorrow, how many people die, and how out of control will our streets be ? Now shutdown the teachers for 1 month? Anybody die? Any child not able to live in safety? My point is both are important services, but be realistic. I do think the difference in pay scales with other departments is unfair, but that is not suffolk's fault. I am a dissatisfied property taxpayer that thinks the school systems are truly bleeding us. I am satisfied with our PD>

[20plus]

Those of you who complain about the SCPD's budget are missing a central point. You may or may not agree with the salary levels, but what about all the WASTE & MISMANAGEMENT??? For example:

- cops sitting at their relief points because there's not enough cars to drive.

- DARE officers (need I say more?).

- the 2-hour overlay from 2100 to 2300.

- slow arrest processing

- cops wasting one hour of an eight-hour day just to go get gas.

None of these complaints are directed at the officers. They are all caused by bad management. I think the average taxpayer would not begrudge a cop his $100K, but would be outraged to find out how much downtime there is.

[DARE ME 2]

Until you teach the D.A.R.E. program don't say it's a waste. I don't know what you do so I wouldn't comment on your job. For years now I have seen very positve results from the D.A.R.E. program. First the education really does make a difference to so many of the students in the way they think about drugs. Also it really does change the way the kids think about the police. And many parents have a more positive outlook on the Police Department after their child has graduated the D.A.R.E. program. The D.A.R.E Officers make a lot less than many of their fellow officers. No night diff, no O.T. etc. So not only is the education important but all the positive public relations for the department makes this a very worthwhile program at a price tag less than that of the average Police Officer. If the D.A.R.E. program saved one kid's life a year, could you put a price tag on that child's life? What if the kid's life we saved was your kid ? How much is that worth to you?

[friendly]

DARE..you've got to be kidding me..The founder of the DARE program has come out and said it is flawed...What a waste of manpower. Most p.o.'s in that detail are wannabe teachers, or those who can't hack it on the road. Why is the PD supplying cops to do a job that teachers are more qualified to do. If it is so important to have a policeman in uniform in the classroom, then let's have a P.O. show up once a week per class and give their schpeill. The Police Commish needs to take a stand on this and put these DARE cops (and I use the term cops liberally) on the road. Isn't the core job of the police dept to answer calls for service ??? And they get take home cars. Oh yeah, anyone remember the DARE scandal awhile back...On days when school was cancelled for snow days or holidays, the DARE officers did not show up for work at school, they took the day off, but without notifying the job (and thus not getting banged the 303 day). They just did not show up. Some got thrown out, some didn't. But the program still exists. The dept says they put them on patrol when school is not in session...B/S....they rarely fill sector cars,,,they are too busy doing lesson plans or making errand runs...Are they cops or teachers ???

[scpd patrol]

Dare officers are assigned to precinct COPE Units. They are usually out writing summonses when not doing DARE stuff. They are monitored much more closely now.
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[dareme2]

Again, You don't have the right information. We are exceptional Police Officers. Even better, we get to bring our exceptional knowledge of what really happens on the street to people who are involved with drugs and share that knowledge with the students in schools. Something no teacher is capable of doing the way we can. Also you said if it was so important to have a Police Officer in the classroom then we should be there only once a week. Glad you agree, apparently you don't know your facts because we are only in each classroom once a week. And just to set the record straight we don't get take home cars. If I take a day off it's not a free day. I have to fill out the same paperwork as you to get a day off. We are assigned to C.O.P.E. and on days where a school is off we are assigned to assist C.O.P.E. and have also been assigned to assist patrol by filling in sector cars. And I'm not kidding you. You still didn't answer my question. What is your childs life worth or anyone's child worth for that matter. I know my children are worth an immeasurable amount. Certainly much more than my salary. Follow me around work for a week or around town on my days off and see the impact I have made on so many students and parents from different towns. Believe me, I am not the only D.A.R.E. Officer that can say this. I was always proud to work the street but teaching the D.A.R.E. program has so many positive results it is a very rewarding to be involved with, and I don't mean rewarding in my wallet because all D.A.R.E. Officers take a loss in pay to do it. Since you think we should all be answering calls for service I guess we should get rid of all the Police Officers at the range, E.V.O.C., impound, pistol license, property, quartermaster ,P.A.L., historical society, and the list goes on and on. The truth is these are all vital jobs in the department and best served by Police Officers, just like D.A.R.E.

[sctpnm]

It has been done before and it works so do it. And save money. And for crying out loud work together guys. Former Housing cop.

[no thanks]

you want the deps who already make double the o/t the cops do to merge and get their salary?
my understanding everyday at court thanks to our justice system, the deps are required to stay several hours over until all the cases are heard. and think of all their trips upstate to prisons, now you want scpd to have the same opportunities to bleed the taxpayers.
the park police have a 12(?) year step to about 60,000 i believe, so you want to bump them from that salary to 120,000 scpd makes in 5?
i would imagine that the all 3 departments would have to go and get further training, parks and co. poice in civil law, deps and co. police, in the various enviromental laws. them im sure the scpd would use that as a leverage at bargaining table for a nice raise.
the only place i could see any savings is with management,the chiefs and other white shirts. but i doubt it.
i believe there are only like 250 deps and even less park pos i dont think the taxpayers would appreciate this

[dareme2]

I've been a P.O. for 18 years and haven't made $100,000 yet. I love how you make those assumptions all P.O.'s are making $120,000. I'm sure some do. Not all of us. It's great when some people don't have all the facts and start posting this stuff.

[ok]

check the pay scale bro, unless you're steady days somewhere and never work o/t you'l get it in a couple years

[HOLYCOW]

THE FIRST POSTING ON THIS SITE SAYS IT COST 1,030,000 PER DAY TO RUN THE SCPD IS IT WORTH IT. WELL SOME QUICK MATH TELLS ME THATS LESS THAN ONE DOLLAR PER DAY PER RESIDENT IF YOU HAVE 1.4 MILLION RESIDENTS, SOUNDS LIKE A BARGAIN TO ME.
WITH THE PRICE OF GAS AT 2 PER GALLON AND THE AVERAGE GAR GETTING 15 MILES TO THE GALLON YOU COULD DRIVE A WHOLE 7.5 MILES PER DAY FOR THAT SAME DOLLAR WOW !

[Truthcom]

Listen a list is going around the county if you dont want to pay so much for police response put your name on the list and when you need help it wont be around. It is a small price to pay. I feel safe at night With the SCPD low crime rate.

Until you teach the D.A.R.E. program don't say it's a waste. I don't know what you do so I wouldn't comment on your job. For years now I have seen very positve results from the D.A.R.E. program. First the education really does make a difference to so many of the students in the way they think about drugs. Also it really does change the way the kids think about the police. And many parents have a more positive outlook on the Police Department after their child has graduated the D.A.R.E. program. The D.A.R.E Officers make a lot less than many of their fellow officers. No night diff, no O.T. etc. So not only is the education important but all the positive public relations for the department makes this a very worthwhile program at a price tag less than that of the average Police Officer. If the D.A.R.E. program saved one kid's life a year, could you put a price tag on that child's life? What if the kid's life we saved was your kid ? How much is that worth to you?

[what a deal]

Does anyone care that it costs over $1,030,000.PER DAY for the Suffolk County Police Department?!?!?! that's right - PER DAY!!! OVER ONE MILLION DOLLARS for 1.4 million people....is it worth it?
So It works out to be less then .75 cents a day but your cable bill is @ $4 a day Your good to point that out what a good deal it is.

[UnregisteredTrue]

So It works out to be less then .75 cents a day but your cable bill is @ $4 a day Your good to point that out what a good deal it is.


That cost is now going down because they have been removed from all highways in the county.

[Unregisteredfalse]

That cost is now going down because they have been removed from all highways in the county.

How? They are still getting paid, and the deps replacing them are 40% overtime due to their manpower.
They also have to prep the sheriffs vehicles for highway use and remove the highway apparatus from the scpd cars.....its going to cost more.

[ftscpd shits]

How? They are still getting paid, and the deps replacing them are 40% overtime due to their manpower.
They also have to prep the sheriffs vehicles for highway use and remove the highway apparatus from the scpd cars.....its going to cost more.wrong, it will cost less because less SCPD shit on OT - I'd rather pay a sheriff OT then SCPD SCUM

[Unregisteredeaddd]

So It works out to be less then .75 cents a day but your cable bill is @ $4 a day Your good to point that out what a good deal it is.

I can count on cable being there when I need it!

[LEG1]

SCPD average OT rate is 91.27 HR
Deputy Avg OT 48.74 HR


The county will save well over 12,390,000.00 each year


replace a 124,000.00 dollar a year free coffee drinker

with a 60,000.00 dollar a year hard working leo

that two for the price of one

staff it half of what the pd bloated it too that is saving money

I like the pd they do good work but the reign of terror is coming to an end you will tell the new guys boy if you would have been here when we were on top those were the days.


those days are over for the five town cops.

[fttptsaiwrong]

wrong, it will cost less because less SCPD shit on OT - I'd rather pay a sheriff OT then SCPD SCUM

Where are the saving for scpd? Its a push at best. At least 100 scpd will retire this year. There were 50 cops originally in highway. Still a deficit. There is o/t every day and the 30 cops left that are coming from highway divided by the 35 squads in scpd patrol arent going to do much are they?
The deps are now going to go to arbitration and claim to be patrol and claim parity with scpd.
You still lose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Unregisteredcxvcx]

wrong, it will cost less because less SCPD shit on OT - I'd rather pay a sheriff OT then SCPD SCUM


Why you are wrong. I work 5 days I sign up for hold over(4 hours per tour) and on my days off I sign up for all 3 tours so its 6 tours plus 5 1/2 tours for a total of 11 possible tours . I am guaranteed a call to work on at least 8 of them.
All I need is 1 tour per week... 4 hours will give me 6 in the bank. 8 will give me 12. times that by 52 its well over 300 and usually over 400.
There were 50 highway cops and there are 7 pcts with 5 squads per pct. About 15 of them were reassigned in July, so now there are 30-35 1 per squad.Thats not even a drop in the bucket.
Now assuming my squad gets a highway guy what is that going to drop me to? Instead of 8 calls, 7? 6? All I want is one. Sure I'll take 2 if I dont have plans.
Sorry levys scheme is weak. He needs to cut the fat, the supervisors and white shirts....patrol is down by 40% but his hq staff is 100%...to sit and make 150k to be a yes bitch?

[BOO HOOOOO]

Sorry levys scheme is weak. He needs to cut the fat, the supervisors and white shirts....patrol is down by 40% but his hq staff is 100%...to sit and make 150k to be a yes bitch?[/QUOTE]

At least the supervisors do what they are told to do.

[Unregistered/ohno.]

I've been a P.O. for 18 years and haven't made $100,000 yet. I love how you make those assumptions all P.O.'s are making $120,000. I'm sure some do. Not all of us. It's great when some people don't have all the facts and start posting this stuff.

It takes 5 years to make top pay which is about 96 thou, throw in the rest of the bennies and you're talking at least 109. You'er either lying or a troll.

[Fed up with Lies]

MOST FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT
THE SUFFOLK COUNTY CIVIL SERVICE POLICE EXAM

Q. HOW CAN I OBTAIN AN APPLICATION?
A. There are several ways to obtain an application.


Q. WHAT IS THE STARTING SALARY?
A. For the year 2007, OVER $58,000.00

Top salary after 5 years is $94,958.00 (this figure does not include night differential, holiday pay or overtime).

that my friends is only 132,000.00 after you include fringe benefits and the few extras that we get. subtract the tax we have to pay 96,000.00 that is the truth

while deputy sheriff's all make well over 178,000.00 with OT

closely followed by Correction Officers who are making 165,000.00 per year with OT.

So who cost more.

[Unregisteredl]

I can count on cable being there when I need it!

What a witty thing to say did you come up with that all by your self or did you ask your crack head friends for a help..

[Unregisteredja]

MOST FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT
THE SUFFOLK COUNTY CIVIL SERVICE POLICE EXAM

while deputy sheriff's all make well over 178,000.00 with OT

closely followed by Correction Officers who are making 165,000.00 per year with OT.

So who cost more.

If your truly fed up with lies STOP POSTING. Theres about 1000 c/o's and 270 deputies that will dispute your salary figures. By the way your only off an average of 80,000 for deputies and 75,000 for c/o's.

Now leave the firehouse and answer a call or two.

[Unregistered12345]

MOST FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT
THE SUFFOLK COUNTY CIVIL SERVICE POLICE EXAM

Q. HOW CAN I OBTAIN AN APPLICATION?
A. There are several ways to obtain an application.


Q. WHAT IS THE STARTING SALARY?
A. For the year 2007, OVER $58,000.00

Top salary after 5 years is $94,958.00 (this figure does not include night differential, holiday pay or overtime).

that my friends is only 132,000.00 after you include fringe benefits and the few extras that we get. subtract the tax we have to pay 96,000.00 that is the truth

while deputy sheriff's all make well over 178,000.00 with OT

closely followed by Correction Officers who are making 165,000.00 per year with OT.

So who cost more.
Do not quote a salary of 1 or 2 officers who are senior and work 150 doubles a year.!!!!!!!!!
I don't know where you got your figures, but as a CO I made $63,000 last year and worked 60 doubles. I am not at top step yet but will be in 2 more years of which my salary will go up about $10,000. CO's haven't had a raise since 2003 so stop the bull***t This year a new class graduated and I will only work about 40 doubles which would keep me in the same salary. The hiring of new officers to cut overtime is not saving the taxpayer it is costing. All the additional hiring has resulted in the Correction Officer staffing being over almost every shift It's all smoke and mirrors, cutting overtime and adding new officers is not cost efficient. Add salary, benefits, insurance, and pension and then compare it to a couple of shifts a week overtime. The taxpayer is being snowed.

[Unregistered123456]

Do not quote a salary of 1 or 2 officers who are senior and work 150 doubles a year.!!!!!!!!!
I don't know where you got your figures, but as a CO I made $63,000 last year and worked 60 doubles. I am not at top step yet but will be in 2 more years of which my salary will go up about $10,000. CO's haven't had a raise since 2003 so stop the bull***t This year a new class graduated and I will only work about 40 doubles which would keep me in the same salary. The hiring of new officers to cut overtime is not saving the taxpayer it is costing. All the additional hiring has resulted in the Correction Officer staffing being over almost every shift It's all smoke and mirrors, cutting overtime and adding new officers is not cost efficient. Add salary, benefits, insurance, and pension and then compare it to a couple of shifts a week overtime. The taxpayer is being snowed.

What happened you lost for words!

[UnregisteredGoForIt]

Here we go with info concerning brides in the SCPD union. They are going to fall apart in the next month or two.

http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/monday/longisland/ny-librib225853418sep22,0,3171868.story

[Achilles]

Here we go with info concerning brides in the SCPD union. They are going to fall apart in the next month or two.

http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/monday/longisland/ny-librib225853418sep22,0,3171868.story

You incredible moron. Roger Shannon is the deputy commissioner. He's a CIVILIAN appointee of Levy's. He's not a cop and he's not a member of the PBA. This just goes to show the lengths and lows Levy and his band of merry men will go. They attempted to bribe a union official to influence his testimony. Despicable. Great bunch of horses you hitched your wagon to.

[brides]

Here we go with info concerning brides in the SCPD union. They are going to fall apart in the next month or two.

http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/monday/longisland/ny-librib225853418sep22,0,3171868.story

Brides?
Now scpd is being linked to illegal bride activity?
Foolish turd

[Unregisteredwatchhis]

Now a troll is going to post and claim its more pba propaganda. That s detective who makes 150k + has nothing better to do then slander the brass....for the pbas benefit.
But if it was a pba member, our troll would start about 40 posts on the corruption within the pba

[Unreggg]

Who cares about the PBA or SCPD.... Bunch of Pu$$y's!

[Unregistered u u u]

Who cares about the PBA or SCPD.... Bunch of Pu$$y's!

you care enough to come here and post about them without anyone asking you to.
dont see anyone posting "who cares about unregg, hes a pussy"? do you