Tuesday, May 18. Step up or shut up.

[854]

Using your right to vote maintains your right to complain.
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LovelyWendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[JJD]

Wherever you live, you probably can't go wrong by voting "No."
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[system needs change]

A vote no sends the message that the average homeowner and taxpayer can't keep paying for inflated budget increases. If housing costs are skyrocketing and houses are turned into multiple dwellings and there are no increases on the tax rate for such conversions then schools will be always under stress as will the single family homeowner. The landlords make out like bandits.

[Factfinder]

If your school budget is running 7-9% blame Albany not your school board or admin. Albany hasn't increased funding for our schools for the last 10 years at least. Gas costs $2 a gallon now. It was under $1 not so long ago. How is anybody - you me or our school - supposed to get along without a raise.

Want to vote somebody out over this? Look at Albany. Be especially suspicious of the guys saying it's your school board's fault while they go ahead and cut your budget. Those are the men and women to oust.
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[JJD]

Yes, the state has saddled local boards with unfunded mandates but, for many boards, the easy way has been to pass along the costs to the local taxpayers "for the sake of the kids," without even trying to do better.

I am unaware of any school district which has attempted to tell its teachers that there will be no (or minimal) raises in a new contract. I am aware of no district which has attempted to assign a value to the tranquility that comes of teaching in a place where a request for homework isn't met with a broken nose.

Until that starts to happen the school budgets are going to spiral up. Until that happens, school boards are going to claim their hands are tied by Albany's impositions, and they will escape responsibility for doing their jobs which, sometimes, require them to make teachers, as well as taxpayers, unhappy.
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[Truthsayer]

Have you heard about the next planned "Survivor" show? Three businessmen and three businesswomen will be dropped in an elementary school classroom for 6 weeks. Each business person will be provided with copy of his/her school district's curriculum, and a class of 28 students.



Each class will have: five learning-disabled children, three with A.D.D., one gifted child, and two who speak limited English. Three will be labeled with severe behavior problems.



Each business person must complete lesson plans at least 3 days in advance with annotations for curriculum objectives and modify, organize, or create materials accordingly. They will be required to teach students, handle misconduct, implement technology, document attendance, write referrals, correct homework, make bulletin boards, compute grades, complete report cards, and document benchmarks, communicate with parents, and arrange parent conferences. They must also supervise recess and monitor the hallways. In addition, they will complete drills for fire, tornadoes, and shooting attacks.



They must attend workshops, (100 hours), faculty meetings, union meetings, and curriculum development meetings.



They must also tutor those students who are behind and strive to get their 2 non-English speaking children proficient enough to take the Terra Nova and
EPA tests.



If they are sick or having a bad day they must not let it show. Each day they must incorporate reading, writing, math, science, and social studies into
the program. They must maintain discipline and provide an educationally stimulating environment at all times.



The business people will only have access to the golf course on the weekends, but on their new salary they will not be able to afford it anyway. There will
be no access to vendors who want to take them out to lunch, and lunch will be limited to 30 minutes. On days when they do not have recess duty, the business
people will be permitted to use the staff restroom as long as another survival candidate is supervising their class.



They will be provided with two 40-minute planning periods per week while their students are at specials. If the copier is operable, they may make copies
of necessary materials at this time.



The business people must continually advance their education on their own time and pay for this advanced training themselves. This can be accomplished by
moonlighting at a second job or marrying someone with money.



The winner will be allowed to return to his or her job.



Pass this to your friends who think teaching is easy and to the ones that know it is hard. They will both benefit.

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[JJD]

Unfortunately for your analysis, Truthsayer, you seem to think that life in "the business world" is. So let's play yet another version of Survivor.

Try a world with no tunure, to start, with vacations that exist only as suggestions and which, in many cases, you are penalized for actually taking. Contrast that with the life of a teacher and, immediately, there is an advantage that cannot possibly be imagined unless you are without it.

Try working for a company that is downsizing and running "lean and mean" and see what kind of supplies/support staff etc. comes your way.

30 minute lunch? Don't many of us wish.

The requirement that you plan 3 days in advance? Try an environment where, on the one hand you must plan 3 months in advance and, on the other, your plans are upended on 3 hours notice, depending upon the whim of a client or customer.

I could go on, but you get the idea, I hope. Nobody says teaching is easy but, in many districts on Long Island, it is at least tranquil. And your job is at least secure.

Try playing Survivor with somebody whose job just went to Bangalore, after 27 years of devotion to the firm, but who still has to find the means to pay a 9 or 10 or 12% real estate tax increase, or lose the roof over his head that he spent those 27 years earning.

In this version, the winner gets to find another job, or two of them most likely, to make up for the one he lost, and to cover the cost of the benefits and health insurance he no longer receives, the pension that went from a defined benefit to self managed, (if the company even exists) and the 201K based almost entirely on company stock that is no longer worth the paper it's printed on.

All this, and he gets to hear the teachers in his district denounce him as an ingrate, or a Philistine, when he complains about his tax burden.
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[kabongo]

Good response. While not as detailed, I would suggest that while teachers have a job that is challenging, and the salaries they are paid has to come from somewhere, it has been more apparent this year than the past where the feeling of blackmail is prevalent in the air. VOTE FOR THE BUDGET OR WE WILL CLOSE THE SCHOOLS, SEND YOUR KIDS TO SHELTERS AND MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE REALLY BAD PARENTS...
I Don't know where the answer is. I know that I don't gain any comfort when the Boards or the Teachers Union are plugging for these increases. Go to the State Teachers union site to see their motives. What credibility do they have? Up to 15K per student and where does it end? This years excuse is unfunded mandates and increased pension and benefit costs. Next year it will be salaries and facilities. They need to do it smarter and cheaper. I can send my kid to Kellenberg for $5600 per year. Just deduct it from my tax bill (LOL).
Some thoughts: I don't know if this is possible, but here goes...Privatize some support services. Security, Maintenance and other non teaching services should be contracted out. This saves salary, pension and health care costs to the district. Just my 2 cents.

[Tony B]

Many employed in our education system are so far removed from the realities that face the average taxpayer it is absurd. This comparison of a teacher to a "businessman" is a clear example of that!

Any business that was run the way our schools have been run would have closed years ago.


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[Tony B]

There is no doubt your job is hard, but so are many other jobs. Your views of what the rest of the world does for a living are quite condescending and also rather arrogant. I am uncertain if you teach, but if so, I think you need to get out and see what the rest of the world is facing.

You mention concerns over what you make, so apparently you can comprehend the need to operate within a budget. You are turning concern over rather unreasonable budget jumps into an attack upon your profession and skills. That is not what this is about.

Try to look at the big picture here.
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[Truthsayer]

If you voted no...I hope you voted no for the right reasons.

This site has been chock full of posts bashing teachers. My last post was an attempt to explain what teachers actually do and not an attack on the business world. ( I was self employed for over 20 years myself.)

Teachers don't deserve the rap they have been taking in the media. We don't set policy, we don't set mandates, and we have no say in the budget process.

We also live in your communities, we pay the same taxes that you pay, and we have some of the same concerns.

The big picture needs to be examined, look at your county, town and village taxes. You don't vote on them, yet my village tax is 43% of my total tax bill. Duplication of services as rampant on Long Island. Patronage is a cancer that will doom LI.

What I am trying to say here is that some school districts have overly inflated budgets, however the majority do not. Teachers are not the blame.

As far as the "Kellenberg tuition comment" check your facts. Who pays transportation costs? Who pays Special Ed costs? Look at the costs your local district pays into your child's education at Kellenberg.

How many Intel Scholars came out of Kellenberg? How many talented musicians? Artists? How many students that get suspended or have discipline issues get to remain at Kellenberg?

The issue of taxes is a complicated one. Don't blame the employees, blame the policy makers. From the state level down.

After yesterday's vote, here on Long Island,the line has been drawn in the sand. It will take some courageous people to step over that line and do the right thing, not the irrational hateful things discussed on this site.


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LovelyWendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[feduptaxpayer]

Everyone knows you cant put the word teacher and real world in the same sentence!
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[Tony B]

...and it wasn't because I have anything against teachers!

It was because since I moved into my home in 1997 the portion of my taxes associated with the school district has doubled while inflation during that period has risen less than 16%. If I was making $40,000 in 1997, my salary would have had to jump to about $65,000 to keep pace with the school budgets. Most of us do not get annual raises guaranteed in a contract, and have seen no or low raises over the past 7 years.

Something doesn't add up.

My district blames the increase on "mandated increases", but these "mandated increases" are largely salary raises and benefit payments. As noted above, the public paying the bills are not getting guaranteed raises, particularly when the budget is tight, and benefits for many have been cut, reduced, limited, or the employee is now forced to contribute. I asked many in my district what sacrifices the school staff were making and never got an answer. Are they holding back pay raises? Are they willing to accept changes in their benefit package like the rest of us? I haven't seen it.

My bottom line is that this has to stop. We need to take care of our kids and their teachers, but you can't keep squeezing the same orange for juice.

I don't feel a bit guilty about my no vote. The district has held the gun to our heads yet again saying our no may mean no sports, teachers losing their jobs, and other cuts. Will the school staff fore-go their salary raises this year to help? In my district that would save almost $3 million bucks! How about restructuring their benefits? Maybe we need to squeeze those oranges for a change.

In the business world there are no "mandated increases"...if the company is struggling, the employees must expect to make sacrifices. Until I see that happening, my vote will continue to be no.
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[Truthsayer]

Why don't you run for the school board next year. You seem to have all the answers. You probably would be pretty good at it too!

It's not the teacher's salaries that is driving up the cost of education. Just as in most businesses, salaries is a majority of the cost. Unlike any other business we can't raise the price of our product and we can't redesign our packaging ( see former 2 liter soda bottles).

Lower teacher salaries... you'll wind up with less teachers and larger classes. The result.. we will fall even further behind in the world.

Let us teach... knock off all this ridiculous testing, and reduce administrative costs. Did you know most of these tests are designed and produced by the textbook manufacturers? More tests... more books. More administrators needed.

What about the greatest scam of all... the lottery!! It was supposed to help education. Well it's not. It actually helps the state general fund. Every dollar given to education from the lottery results in another dollar shifted away from state aid to schools. That's the sham! Scandal!!

At the same time we are creating a society more dependent on gambling. Which results in more dis-functional families and more kids with special needs.

My $52K salary is not unreasonable for Nassau County. My taxes are approaching $8k per year. $2.30 a gallon of gas, $3 a gallon of milk, 3 kids in college. My wife works and we barely get by. Oh I also work 2 part time jobs. My 3% raise was less than my village's 5% raise that they gave to their employees. I have no chance of earning a bonus if my students do well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about my salary. I love what I do because I am doing what I love. I was self employed for 20 years and decided to go into teaching after some soul searching and I love every day of it. That said I won't and will not stand by when teachers are unfairly blamed for the high cost of education.

Ask teachers how they feel when they have to purchase their own supplies for their students and classrooms. Ask teachers how they feel when they are told that their is no money available to purchase a class set of a novel they would love to read with the class. Ask teachers how they feel when they are ridiculed for having a summer break that is spent maintaining ther professional status by attending seminars and grad. school. Ask teachers how the feel when they read the hateful comments in the press after a finishing phone calls to parents in the evening. Most teacher average 50 hours per week in the classroom and preparing lesson plans and materials. We don't get OT when we meet with a parent before or after school, or we go to a students soccer or BB game to show moral support.

You guys really have to hear both sides. I'm sorry if I appear to be ranting a little but these things need to be said.

Just saying no is not enough. Get off your desk chairs, push that mouse away and get involved! Show up at a PTA meeting, join the school board, contact you legislator, volunteer at your local school.


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Rhode Island Dispensary (http://rhodeisland.dispensaries.org/)

[kabongo]

I really can't get enough of people telling me that I'm ignorant, and that the path to enlightenment must include running for office, becoming a teacher or working for free at school. Listen - while you obviously feel the need to wear your qualifications on your sleeve, as if this somehow should shut us all up for having the audacity to question our tax bill, here's my little reality - I will work approximately 600-700 hours of overtime this year. I will spend the remaining time with my kids whose days are filled with homework, and other kid stuff, and try and squeeze in some shuteye along the way. DON'T FEEL SORRY FOR ME.

[kabongo]

According to News 12's data, these school districts spend from 12K to 123K per student. Now you can dispute this all you want, and while Kellenberg might get money from these districts for transportation, and Special Ed, No one in the school systems has come forward and say - Enough! Don't tell me about how this is all for the kids. Tell us about how it's for the kids when your'e on a picket line because your contract expired 2 days ago. Tell me how it's about the kids when the teachers wear black t-shirts to school in protest about salaries. Tell me it's about the kids, and then how you will hold them hostage for a budget. God forbid the system should change or adapt to meet a fiscal challenge. (Gotta shut down the lab, but lets make sure the grass is cut 2X a week).
These and my other comments are not an indictment of all teachers, just this union delegate.
What school boards forget, is that something has to give. Either do it smarter and more efficiently or price us out of here.

[Truthsayer]

If you read my comments I agreed that taxes are getting out of line. I also stated some very valid reasons. I didn't complain about my salary, hours or anything I do. It appears you just want to unfairly bash teachers. Name 1 district where teachers have control over a districts budget.

If you really read my comments thouroghly you would have read my comments regarding administrative costs etc.

Teachers contracts.... teachers don't picket when a contract has expired after only 2 days... name one district where that has happened. Yes they have picketed after being without a contract for 6 months or when a district refuses to negotiate. Nothing wrong with that is there. Teachers are not allowed to go on strike.
Hope that clears that up..

Are you against unions?
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[Grassman]

You mention cutting grass 2X a week in your post.Let me tell you Einstein,at this time of year if grass is NOT cut 2X a week high school sports will shut down.An angry disgruntled taxpayer is a pantywaist(the equivelant to an average school administrator)compared to an angry sports parent.Trust me Alfred,I'd rather be home on Saturday with my kids than cutting grass.Choose your comparisons wisely.

[Tony B]

You make many good points truth sayer, and I sincerely hope my comments didn't offend you. As I said, I have a great deal of respect for what you do, and in an ideal world, having to put the squeeze on teachers would be something beyond consideration.

I am not sure how much sarcasm was behind your comment regarding running for school board, but as someone else commented, I don't feel that is needed in order to comment or understand these issues. I am certain there are many frustrations in your work, and can well imagine the type of testing you describe is high on that list.

I may not understand the intricacies of your work, but I understand numbers. I am sure it varies from district to district, but I analyzed the numbers in mine, and what I reported in my original post, that salary raises and increased benefit costs accounted for almost 80% of the proposed increase, which was darn close to 10%. This is why my comments focused on those two aspects of the budget.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts...you did give me some things to think about.
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[kabongo]

No, I actually am a union member. I just happen to be held to the Taylor Law, as you all should be. I do enjoy the whole "It's for the kids" mentality that the schools, teachers union and boards have purported. I'll be remembering that the next time a school goes on strike.
Oh, and the whole grass cutting thing... Take a pill Elvis, it was really just a completely hypothetical example, OK, Bob? Don't get your knickers all twisted, Steve. If you feel that the education of your kids should be held hostage by a lawn then I apologize. It just seems odd to me that they always go to the academics when budgets are effected, all right Phil? I suggested, I guess much to your dismay, that some of these support services be provided by outside contractors, to save on benefit and pension costs.

[kabongo]

Ok Truthsayer,
Let me try this again, because I don't think I am communicating this correctly (apologies for crankiness). I support my kids teachers 100%. I know that we are lucky on LI to have a large pool of excellent educators. I think salary is an important part of why we have the talent we have.
This is where we part company:
When I see children lobbying for the budget in Newsday articles, or the teachers union, it just seems a bit slimy to me. I get this feeling like they don't want us to think about the salary issue, or assume we don't get it. Maybe if the unions just came out and said, we need a raise, and this budget makes it happen, it just seems more honest. The boards don't have any problem throwing you all under the bus when explaining why the taxes are going up. Maybe you should capitalize on it, and talk about the waste or make suggestions to help. I also stand by the exploration of privatizing the non educational services.
I know that most teachers care about their kids. I also know that teachers are being held more and more accountable, whether through tests or whatever. Good. This keeps the less than motivated on their toes. While I will vote yes for the next budget, I hope these boards got a wake up call and realize there are people writing the checks.
Thanks for listening.
By the way, Grassman, you don't know me at all. For all you know, my kids are being considered for full athletic rides to the schools of their choosing. I can assure you that I can be the meanest taxpaying motherf***** you have ever seen. Sports are important, but save that P word for people who are re-living missed opportunties in their youth through their kids. Try reading in proper context next time. Heres another P word - Priorities. See ya on the field.

[google]

see this website
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