West Islip School District

[wi rep]

I'm sorry but this year I am voting down the budget. I have accepted tax increases in the past to better the system and help the children get a good, solid education. This year the BOE is proposing a 12% increase, which I figure will push my school taxes up $1000. I recently learned that the current union president is taking a $112,000/yr job in the same district as director of personnel. Do we need all of these administration positions? I also heard that the District is looking to let 60 teachers go. Class sizes will probably go up as a result of this. I'm a proponent of sports and music, but the first priority of the District should be EDUCATING. I wonder if the sports teams are going to have $$ cuts made. If they are excising teachers then the sports program better feel the same pain!
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[hoiii]

theyll vote it down they vote everythign down that costs them money
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[what else is new]

$1000?? thats ridiculous, alot more then $69 or $20, that the fd wanted, i guess thats why one of the most heavily opposed unions to our vote was indeed, the schools.

[ChrisF202]

Here are some sports teams to get rid of:

Golf - why do we have this?
Kickline - we already have cheerleaders
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[djprint]

VOTE NO ON THE MAY 18th BUDGET! SCHOOL SPENDING IS OUT OF CONTROL!!
Last year a whopping 9.52% increase which added $900 to my tax bill, this year an unbelievable 12% increase adding an additional $1100 to the tax bill. That's a $2,000 increase in ONE YEAR! Outrageous!! The schools are going to have to learn how to do more with less like the rest of us. Most of the increase will go to teacher's pensions and health care benefits. Teachers should have to contribute to these benefits, not the taxpayers.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!
VOTE NO, NO NO!!

[FRANK CUNNINGHAM]

I HAVE BEEN A HOMEOWNER FOR 23 YEARS AND ON PRINCIPLE WILL NOT EVER VOTE YES. I REFUSE TO VOLUNTARLIY RAISE MY TAXES. ALL THE RHETORIC FROM THE PRO SCHOOLS LOBBY IS NOTHING BUT SELF SERVING BS. THE CHILDREN ARE ALWAYS CARTED OUT AND RAISED ON THE PEDESTAL. ITS ALL ABOUT THEM AND THEIR EDUCATION THEY CLAIM, THE CHILDREN ARE PAWNS USED BY THE SCHOOLS AND THE UNIONS THEY ARE MERELY WINDOW DRESSING TO HIDE BEHIND.
THE REAL PROBLEM IS NOT THE SALARIES AND BENEFITS BUT THE STAFFING PROBLEMS. IN THE EARLY 70s WHEN THE BABY BOOMERS WERE ENDING THEIR RUN IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS THE SCHOOL LOBBY AND THE UNIONS SHIFTED GEARS FROM EMPIRE BUILDING TO EMPIRE MAINTENANCE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN THEIR POWER INFLUENCE AND FUNDING. I'M 53 YEARS OLD WHEN I WAS IN GRAMMAR SCHOOL I ALWAYS HAD 40 KIDS IN EACH CLASS AND IN HIGH SCHOOL I ALWAYS HAD AROUND 40 IN MOST CLASSES. I'M SURE THAT WAS REPRESENTATIVE FOR MOST PEOPLE MY AGE. STARTING IN THE 70s ALL WE HEAR ABOUT IS HOW IMPORTANT CLASS SIZE IS ETC. CLASS SIZE HAS BECOME PART OF THE BARGAINING PROCESS. NOWADAYS CLASS SIZES ARE ALL IN THE 20s AND ALL WE HEAR IS DOOM AND GLOOM IF THEY HAVE TO GO UP A FEW KIDS PER CLASS. MORE SELF SERVING BS. WHATS REALLY AT PLAY IS MORE TEACHER JOBS NOT MORE EDUCATION. MORE TEACHERS EQUALS MORE UNION DUES EQUALS MORE MONEY FOR THE UNION TO LOBBY ALBANY WITH FOR MORE SCHOOL SPENDING AND LAWS WHICH BENEFIT THE SCHOOLS AND UNIONS. IF WE GO ON AUSTERITY ONLY THINGS GET CUT THAT AFFECT STUDENTS AND PARENTS. THATS THE LAW. WELL ALBANY PASSES THE LAWS AND GUESS WHO IS IN BED WITH ALBANY. THE SCHOOL LOBBIES ARE THE LARGEST IN ALBANY. HOW COME SAT SCORES WERE BETTER WHEN WE HAD 40 KIDS IN A CLASS COMPARED TO TODAY? IF YOU WERE A TEACHER WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE SAY 5 CLASSES A DAY WITH 40 KIDS AND 200 PAPERS TO READ AND CORRECT ETC OR 5 CLASSES WITH SAY 20 - 25 KIDS AND 100 - 125 PAPERS ETC. BACK IN THE EARLY 90s I ATTENDED A SCHOOL BOARD MEETING AND FOUND OUT THAT THE STUDENT POPULATION HAD DECREASED TO JUST ABOUT ONE HALF FROM 20 YEARS PRIOR HOWEVER THE STAFFING LEVEL WAS LITERALLY UNCHANGED! IN OTHER WORDS STUDENT TEACHER RATIO WAS ONE HALF WHAT IT WAS OR THE CLASS SIZES WERE HALF. IF STAFFING LEVELS WERE MAINTAINED OVER ALL THESE YEARS THINK HOW MANY FEWER TEACHERS WOULD BE EMPLOYED THE BUDGET WOULD BE 10s OF MILLIONS LESS THAN THE PROPOSED 82 PLUS MILLION. THINK HOW MUCH LESS YOUR SCHOOL TAXES WOULD HAVE BEEN ALL THESE YEARS. EVEN AT PRESENT SALARIES AND BENEFITS THE SAVINGS WOULD HAVE BEEN ENORMOUS AND NOBODY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE BEEN FIRED THEY COULD HAVE JUST ATTRITED DOWN THE WORK FORCE OVER THE YEARS AS THE STUDENT POPULATION DECREASED. BUT THEN THE TEACHERS WOULD HAVE TO GRADE 200 PAPERS. SO JUST COUGH IT UP AND SHUT UP. DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF THINKING THAT THERE IS ONE OUNCE OF SYMPATHY FOR THE BELEAGURED TAXPAYER IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT THEN SELL YOUR DAMN HOUSE AND GET OUT SO WE CAN GET SOMEBODY IN IT WHO CAN PAY THE TAXES. GOT TO KEEP THAT GRAVY TRAIN ROLLING! THEY WILL NEVER HAVE ENOUGH. THIS WILL NEVER END. SUPPORTERS LOVE TO TELL YOU ABOUT HOW THE GREAT SCHOOL SYSTEM IS WHY YOUR PROPERTY VALUES ARE SO HIGH. WELL IF THATS THE CASE HOW MUCH HIGHER MIGHT THEY BE IF TAXES WERE LOWER? THE DAY IS COMING WHEN OUR HOUSES ALL ACROSS LONG ISLAND WILL BE RENDERED TO BE EFFECTIVELY WORTHLESS BECAUSE NOBODY WILL BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO PAY THE TAXES ON THEM. THINK ABOUT THAT THE NEXT TIME THEY SPOUT THE LINE ABOUT THE SCHOOLS GIVING YOUR HOME VALUE. THE ONLY REAL ANSWER IS TO GET OUT OF NEW YORK STATE ALTOGETHER WHILE YOU CAN STILL SELL YOUR HOUSE. VOTE NO.

[ChrisF202]

My 5 main class teachers (english, spanish, global studies/history, math, and science) have over 170+ students each. Figure 24 students a class x they teach maybe 7 (out of 9) periods a day = 168+. Its insane.
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[gadfly]

Mad as hell ,I'm not going to take it any more......Call just call and stop the abuse.......


NEW YORK STATE ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE

PUBLIC INTEGRITY UNIT

The Public Integrity Unit brings civil and criminal actions to vindicate the public?s interest in honest government and the integrity of governmental officials at the state and local level. Specifically, the Unit handles complex investigations into government corruption, fraud and abuse of authority. Among other statutes, the Unit enforces the "Tweed Law" (N.Y. Exec. Law 63-c) which broadly empowers the Attorney General to bring suit to recover any governmental funds (state or local) that have been "without right obtained."


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[driver]

These politically correct excuses for teachers need to be taken down a step or two.

Most people don't know that the West Islip school district has students from Nassau County enrolled.

Most people don't know that the school library that we just paid over one million dollars to upgrade is NOT open to the students after 2:20 PM. That's right, kids can't use the library after school.

Most people don't know that the WI School District REFUSES to teach or even mention the meaning of Memorial Day to the students!

Most people don't know that allegations have been made about a HS Band teacher fondling a student.

And the list goes on and on....

[Tony B]

You seem to know many things we don't...care to tell us what you mean? What students from Nassau county are enrolled in the schools?

Please offer more details.
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[hoiii]

that weight room too that they just built

i thought it was going to be open to the public what happened?

and why do the kids have to pay a membership to work out there?
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[gadfly]

"Now what." Suffer the little children, or do we cut the Fat out of the system.Return the free riders back to the Class rooms where they belong.If this keeps up the Tax-payers in West Islip will have to reside at the Schools, when they all lose there homes...Unbelievable,"
The people of West Islip have come out of there coma.What we need to do now is hold there feet over the Fire.Suffolk County is 72% higher then the rest of the nation in paying taxes. This has to stop....I'm certain that the privileged will object to this Failed Budget.And let's not forget the Kids.I am sure the School District can do alot more with less.The Kid population in West Islip has exploded.The state of New York, still has not produced a Budget once again.Can somebody explain to me why School cost are so high.I think I know but. I would like another slant on things.Could it be Insurance.Fuel,Salaries,Is there a specific area that could be reduced that wouldn't hurt the Kids.Will the School District put the Budget to another Vote.I know they still have to pay for the mandates.
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[ChrisF202]

Most people don't know that the school library that we just paid over one million dollars to upgrade is NOT open to the students after 2:20 PM. That's right, kids can't use the library after school.
Its not even open during some lunch periods, its closed at least two lunch periods a week.

Most people don't know that the WI School District REFUSES to teach or even mention the meaning of Memorial Day to the students!
Because they are liberals, I could go on all day about what some teachers say/do, they force their liberal beliefs upon us

Most people don't know that allegations have been made about a HS Band teacher fondling a student.
The Chorus teacher also refueses to give late pases to kids unless their in Vocal Motion, could you email me the name of the pervert teacher and the specifics of the investigation at The24thfoot@aol.com

Some other issues:

- HS Principal punched a kid in the stomach and called him an a--hole because the kid was disrespecting him (nobody should act that way, even if he was being disrespected)

- The school will do anything to avoid contacting law enforcement, if someone is assaulted they pressure the kid into not contacting police and instead offer to give him OSS or someother bribe.

- I wont post any specifics, but several sports teams deal/use drugs and steroids, Ive seen this for a fact.

The weightroom is open to the general public over vacations and afterschool (or so I belive), teachers, staff and students are deff allowed in after school and on weekends, vacations, etc only after they present school issued ID. As for the membership, I have no idea. Ill ask some of the jock people tommorow.

Call AGO now and save WI students like myself Edited by: ChrisF202 at: 5/23/04 4:50 pm

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[scpd patrol]

I know of the principal, he seems too wimpy to even know how to throw a punch. I have to say though, some of the kids there need to be straightened out. It's a shame their parents never did it years ago. Tons of disrespect shown by some kids.

Also heard that the district may be cutting out kindergarten, but leaving sports untouched. Please correct me, but I thought the purpose of the school district was to educate. I've handled MVAs in W.Islip and have seen horrible examples of writing when getting statement forms from high school/ early college students. Grammar, spelling, sentence structure are thrown out the window. The future does not look bright.
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[ChrisF202]

I always try treat teachers with respect. I know what you mean, alot of kids are drugged up/drunken wackos. English teachers spend absolutly no time on grammar, I havent done a single period of grammer since 8th grade, all we do in english is read books like "To Kill A Mockingbird" which wasent that bad, ot "Romeo & Juliet". I mean just look at my writing and grammar.

PS: The reason im posting so early is because the generator went on fire after the power outage and everyone "escaped" over the fence and out the gate.
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[scpd patrol]

I see the oldies are still being read in English. Only people majoring in English I guess wish to be English teachers.
Power outage at WIHS? Generator failed..enjoy day off.
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[ChrisF202]

The power went out for the 1st time in the middle of my bio test (end of 1st period, about 8am). Then I was in weightroom talking to my friends when it went out for the 2nd time (around 9:10, beginning 2nd period). Power fails again and generator blows up and goes on fire. Fire alarms go off, and then i ran out the door by the fitness center area. people go outside, 5 or 6 fire trucks from 2 depts. as well as SCPD come and we waited for maybe an hour and a half and then we left to a nice brunch at the diner. I dont know if we have tommorow off, I was told that there was smoke damage to the new wing (which is where I belive the generator is located) my concern is what if the floor collaspes tommorow due to the fire and explosion, thankfully I never have to go in that part. I would also like to thank the WIFD, Bay Shore FD and SCPD officers who responded to the school, we could have had a major problem if the explosion and fire had more force, thanks for the fast reponse to the school, they were there before some kids got out (b/c of the weather and misinformation by teachers/staff, many teachers and students, including myself, belived it was a sick joke when the alarm went off).
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[google]

see this website
www.endteacherabuse.info/...mb/view.pl
and ">www.endteacherabuse.org/
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[gadfly]

WIFD Your welcome ChrisF. On another note I'm standing at the Bus stop in front of my House last week and I was talking to some of the parents who pulled up with there kids. While waiting for the bus a discussion about three of the kids who all go to Westbrook came about concerning how the parents all wished that they could move back into West Islip.This peaked my curiosity! so Mind you, my kids are all grown so I just happen to be off that day waiting to have a New Fence installed. So this was a fluke that. I would even have a conversation with anybody at a Bus Stop.One of the parents was open about how she doesn't Live in West Islip anymore , one of the Dads said ,Driving from WESTHAMPTON every day was killing him.All three parents said they would continue to bring there kids to West Islip forever.That it was the best School system around.Well I wonder how many parents are doing this and how could the the School allow this. Or even control this.Check out a Grey Food service Van at the Dogwood road Bus stop Male Blond hair operator .
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[Tony B]

Looks like there will be a re-vote of the budget on June 20th. If this one follows the pattern of past rejected budgets, all will be kept hush-hush in the hope there will not be the same big voter turn-out and the insiders will slip another one past the tax-payers.

Get the word out. Whether you are for or against the budget, you have to admit it is fairly dirty pool to keep things like this a secret!
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[Tony B]

the 22nd I believe. Think, then type, think, then type...gotta get that in the right order.

I was told about this re-vote by someone at the school, but there is nothing about it on any official web-site yet.


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[wi rep]

The vote is on Tues 6/22
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[No1dadNY]

I am indeed someone who voted down the budget the first time. I thought the increase was excessive. The decrease is down from over twelve percent to 7.8 percent. I found out that the dollar amount difference is 165 dollars a year(Austerity vs. Contingency), and that the cuts that would be made to the district would be incredible. I know a large number of parents and community members who feel the same way. We do not want our children to be the ones who pay for this town fight. This whole fight now seems to be going away from the one thing that matters-education. Yes property taxes have gone up, but they have in every district in NY, and the centerpiece of our district is the school system. I happen to know for a fact that ALL sports(varsity included), kindergarten(not even half-day!), all clubs, and specials will be cut entirely, and 30 kids in a class is GOING to happen. I am voting yes, and am urging everyone else who cares about the community, the kids, and the future to vote as such.
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[Miketwo]

I agree, This budget must pass. Vote yes!!!

[Tony B]

I heard some different things, which is why I am asking.

I understand what you say about the fact that the cuts that are being discussed would be painful, but where does it stop. The school district has shown it is fiscally irresponsible and when they are called on this, by a no vote, the kids are made to suffer. I grew up in this town, and the pattern has always been the same. The districts salaries and benefits are untouchable. A no vote means the district threatens to make life as miserable as possible and then schedules a re-vote. This has been going on for 30 years!

My daughter will be starting kindergarten next year, so I have an interest in her being able to go to school, but I am also appalled by the fact my taxes, at least the part associated with school taxes has risen 4 times faster than inflation since I bought my own house here 8 years ago.

I'd hate to see what the results of a no vote would be for my kids and all the other kids in the district, but I also hate to think that the district will continue its free and irresponsible spending unless at some point they are stopped.

I truly don't know what to do...I have been paying taxes to the schools for the past 8 years and now that I finally need them, this happens. I'm still not sure I can vote yes because it will just allow this cycle to continue unchecked.

I am also not sure if a vote that is yes shows that you care more about the community. It is evident the schools do not care, and an endorsement of their behavior, and the continuation of throwing good money after bad will not benefit the community.

I guess I'll have to decide.
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[No1dadNY]

Tony B, some very valid pionts. Yes, Inflation has not caught up with these tax hikes, but these hikes will evnetually flatten as the young teachers take a massive pay cut and the salary average sharply declines. Some interesting facts:
-West islip pays it's teachers one of the lowest average salarys: 109 out of 114 districts-this means that only 5 districts pays their teachers less. This is a fact-look it up.
-West Islip has several community-led ordinances set up so Industry is kept out, which shoulders the majority of the taxes on the homeowner. In other words, West Islip residents demand that industry be kept out, while this industry would SIGNIFACANTLY cut the homeowners share. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it too. The average district has a 30% shared industry ratio of school taxes. West Islip is only 10 percent.
-Really no joking, It will be announced at the budget planning meeting on Friday night that Varsity sports will be cut, as well as kindergarten as a whole. Sad, but true. I don't think that 18 dollars a month increase in school taxes is too much to avoid my community from going to hell. With no sports or clubs at all next year, the kids will be home at three with nothing to do. Also, I have a daughter that is going into kindergarten in three years. I live in West islip, and don't want her to recieve any less of an education then she deserves. I can't believe that she may not get kindergarten. I as a father will do everything in my power to make sure she gets it. You get what you pay for.
I will continue to ask questions and demand to know the process that determines a budget from year to year. What I can't believe are some of the responses that I get from other parents:
-My kid is out of kindergarten, why should I care
-They'll never do it, it's all threats(While 57 teachers hold pink slips in their hands)
-I'm done with the school system next year, why vote yes?
It is this kinds of ignorant apathy that will ruin it for my daughter.
If you want facts, show up tomorrow and on June 10 at the Q and A session.
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[Tony B]

You made many very good points. I too was appalled at people I overheard when the first budget vote was made. A woman in front of me in the voter line said she was voting yes, but when her last daughter finished school in a couple of years, she would never vote yes again.

I have heard about the lack of industry issue, and that is certainly a valid point. As for the salary of teachers, it really makes you wonder where the money goes

I'd really like to do what is right for the community and kids. I hope to be in this town for a long time. As I wrote earlier, a better balance needs to be reached regarding what is good for the kids, good for the community, and good for the teachers.

I'll need to consider what you say and reach my conclusions. Unfortunately, I have to work tomorrow night, and can't make the meeting. Perhaps you could take a moment and report back and share what you learned. I for one would really appreciate it.

Thanks again, you have really given me something to think about.
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[westislip44]

The past few comments by No1dad have got me thinking as well. I also have some issues to think about. I may vote yes after all!

[higbielane2]

I totally agree with the previous few posts. I voted no on the first budget as well, but will cast my vote as yes June 22. Great points Nydad1!

[Tony B]

As I reflected upon this I thought of a few things, and was hoping someone here may have some insight?

If what NYdad1 says is correct, are we to take this to mean that $165 per home (approximate #) is all that is needed to fund all extracurricular activities and sports as well as pay for the entire Kindergarten program and the salaries and benefits of all teachers. As I do the math and calculate that there are 8883 households in WI (census #'s) @ $165 per house, that means a total of $1,465,695 is the critical amount needed to save all of these things.

Yet, if I go to the districts own budget information, ( Budget info ) and add up the savings that will arise from cutting out these same programs, the total is just shy of $3 million.

So what does this mean? It would seem that it is either not true that the difference between budgets is $165 per home, or that the original cost savings listed by the district were untrue. The $3 million amount comes closer to $340 per home. If there is truly only a $165 per home difference between budgets, then there is no need to sacrifice all they they say they will be cutting. Wonder which one it is??? Wonder why it is so hard to make straight sense of what this school administration says!!

I realize this is only a few hundred dollars, but I can't help but wonder if this isn't the district up to their old threat tricks.

If they are to totally eliminate kindergarten, what happens to the teachers, many who I am sure have tenure? How would the district explain that all the first grade students are a year behind and will therefore perform poorly on all those standard tests that seem the main focus of education these days. Some one told me that performance on those helps shape budgets of the future, so a decision to eliminate kindergarten could have ripple effects for years.

I am still weighing all this stuff, but the claims of what will be sacrificed if the budget is not approved seem hard to swallow.

any insights appreciated.

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[wi parent]

We must vote yes on the upcoming budget....we must also come together as a community and tell the Board that the cuts need to come from the administration pool....did you know that we are paying for one administrator to continue his education ($110,000.00 total) I don't know about you but I paid for my own education!
Do we really need so many administrators making so much money? NO we need qualified teachers to teach our children. I have lived here for 9 years and always voted yes! My son is just starting school and he is going to receive none of the benefits everyone else did.
Did you know the administrators receive merit pay?
The teachers do all the work with the students and the administrators reap the rewards!
This community needs to come together and make it right for the students!
Let your voice be heard!!!!!

[Tony B]

While I am still undecided what to do, primarily because like you, I don't want my kids to miss out on things, I am concerned that a yes vote is just going to allow the district to continue on as they have...spending in a manner that is out of touch with reality.

Once the budget is approved, the vast majority of people will simply forget about it, and those few who do try to change things for the better will be a small minority banging heads with an administration that has a history of being deaf to such pleas.

I am concerned that the only thing they will respond to is a show of intolerance that a rejection of the budget will clearly demonstrate.

As I noted above, using the districts own budget numbers, the claimed need to cut as much as has been reported seems unreal, and yet another attempt to mislead and scare the public into approving the budget.

I'm not sure that I will decide what is the right thing until I actually go vote. I agree that we need to come together as a community, address the things you mention, and send the board a message, but I wonder if they will only hear us if that message comes in the form of a rejected budget.


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[pachin33]

I was in attendance at the board meeting last night. It was unbelievable how much this community seems to care about the students, as well as the teaching staff that works with them every day. The superintendent broke down the new budget as such: 9.06 increase, 421 increase, 16 dollars a month more then a contingency budget. This must pass. The attitude last night was overwhelmingly yes.

[mom33]

I want the budget to pass. I think there is no question about it. We must educate our cildren first and foremost. We cannot let our schools in West Islip down. Of all of the things talked about regarding this budget, the most important thing is our children's education. I am a definite yes. And I hope many people are going to stand by the children of West Islip and vote yes with me.

[jeff2]

It is outrageous that the community has voted no on the budget increase. Our children deserve the opportunity to participate in all sports, as well as clubs and other after school activities. We must vote yes on the budget and make sure that our children have the best education possible. As the father of an incoming kindergartner, I am frustrated to think that she will only have half a day of instruction, while many other districts will be offering a full day, thereby depriving her of the full education she deserves.

[Tony B]

Quote:It is outrageous that the community has voted no on the budget increase

So from your comment am I to take it that you feel a no vote was outrageous, but a school budget that has risen at over 4 times the rate of inflation is not?

I am also the parent of a child entering kindergarten, so I share your concerns, but I don't think that approving budgets out of fear is a wise choice.
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[Tony B]

...I was not at the meeting...what did they say would be cut if the budget is not approved. Considering the overwhelming defeat of the original budget, this must be considered a real concern!
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[No1dadNY]

According to the board, if the second budget soes down, the following will be cut:
-all sports-including varsity
-kindergarten-full and half day(it is not mandated, they said)
-all middle school and highschool electives, clubs and afterschool activities
-29 more para-professionals(making the total cut 5
-57 teachers(37 elementary and 20 highschool)
-All music programs, including vocalmotion
-The highschool will go to an 8 period day.
-Class sizes will be as follows-
k-1 24.7 per class,
2-3 27.9 children per class
4-5 31 per class

Truly horrible numbers, and ones from which this district would not recover from for years to come. They board said that when these programs are cut, they will be cut for a long while. The board broke down the new budget-415 increase, 9.0 percent tax increase, and 15 dollar a month difference from an austerity budget, which would be a 215 dollar increase. This is a fair amount, much more so then the 649 increase asked from the last budget. All concerned parents must vote yes.

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[wi parent]

No1DadNY you are so right on! I am voting yes and encourage all who live in WI to vote yes too! Our children are our future why should we sacrafice their education!

I liked the point about not letting industry in-this is true we all want to keep West Islip a local town without big business well then we have to pay for it!!

This is a great place to live, young, old or in between let's not let the education go to pot!

[Tony B]

Thanks a lot for that information.

Perhaps I am too cynical, and maybe I am beating a dead horse, but using the numbers that the district had on their web site when the first budget was proposed, cutting of all the programs you describe would yield a savings of $5,339,017 yet from what you write, the district is now saying that a $200 difference per home will save these things. As I wrote yesterday, the census says there are 8883 households in West Islip, meaning that $200 jump per home will bring in an extra $1,776,600.

Now call me confused, but how can an extra $1,776,600 be used to save programs that the district claims costs $5,339,017? The way I figure it...and I learned my math right here in West Islip!...either the increase needed to save all these things is more like $600 per home, which is about the same that was first proposed, or only 1/3 of the things the district now says have to be cut will really need to be cut.

Am I missing something here?

I am not trying to convince anyone that a no vote is the right thing to do...as I am still unsure what I should do, but I would like to have a little more faith in what the district is telling us before I make up my mind. At this point, things just aren't adding up.

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[concernedwiparent]

I think it is important to get the facts. Perhaps I can shed some light onto this confusion about the tax rate. The new budget being put up is a proposed 9.07% increase. What this equates to is $450.00 per year for a house assessed at $45,000.00. The difference is $178.00 between the proposed budget and what the contingency budget is. What that $178.00 represents is extreme cuts in programs and academic offerings at elementary, middle and high school levels. This has taken years to build these programs. The tax rate can be variable depending on home assessment value. There are businesses in West Islip and those too pay taxes. Check the West Islip Chamber Website www.westislip.org. There are more businesses here than you realize. This town does not have the same makeup to support a business area as does Bay Shore and Babylon.

I think you need to understand that the taxes have increased due to mandates from NYS with increased graduation requirements as well as other state mandates including special education.

There is going to be an opportunity to asks questions and receive answers on Thursday, June 10 at the high school at 7pm. I do believe that unless the community supports this budget, there is going to be complete devastation to this school district.

[ChrisF202]

Quote:It seems to me there hasn't been any updating or renovation to the interior or exterior of that building in decades.
What about the new wing and the new science labs?

Other then that, the bathrooms are @#%$. My math teacher said that the high school was built in the late 50's. Was that the whole building until the new wing was built or were their addons before that? The stairs are broken and chipped ins ome parts and their is probably abestos all over. The whole area below the school in the gym area (boys locker room, old weightroom, etc) looks like a jail. The TV's are falling from the celing in some rooms (some have TV's on carts, some attached to the celing which are falling down), and my favorite, celing tiles are falling off on some 1st floor rooms, I can sit and stare at the pipes (some of which have duct tape to cover up holes). They refuse to turn on the AC in the warmer months, so on Wednesday when its 86 ill be seating bullets all day. Does the US Dept. of Education have some form of investigation unit to look into this? Or would SCPD/SCSD/SCDAO investigate this?
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[No1dadNY]

Emmabird, the link that you put up is about the 2000-2001 revote! Please post correct information in this crucial time! The current reworked budget is even less now!

As for the building issue, take a look at the absolutly breathtaking new libraries and MST labs that are in each elementary school for a sample of how this district is trying to update it's facilities.

If this second budget goes down, forget about that for yars to come.
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[Emmabird]

I attended the first vote and I am just hearing about the Revote. I was a student in West Islip schools and Graduated from West Islip High School in the late 80's. I know that the cosmetic look of the school is a lower priority to education and after school sports/programs, however, that building is very dated, dingey and depressing. The High School in my mind, is representative of our community's higher learning facility, the students ultimate stop, and sets an example for all WI grammar and middle schools. It seems to me there hasn't been any updating or renovation to the interior or exterior of that building in decades. We all brag about our West Islip schools to friends and family but how many of us would feel proud to give someone a tour of that dungeon? Where does all the money go? Is it possible for us, as the community, to hire one of those Corporate Efficiency companies? Maybe they could show us the dead weight we have here. Edited by: Emmabird at: 6/6/04 12:28 pm

[Emmabird]

www.babylonbeacon.com/New...ge/02.html Edited by: Emmabird at: 6/6/04 12:33 pm

[hoiii]

they threaten to cut all afterschool activities and say you would have to pay for sports

wouldnt it be cheaper to pay 100 for every sport your kid wants to play then the 450 dollar average increase

the way i figure it if they play a sport every season then thats 100 bucks times 3 seasons is 300 youd be saving yourself 150

and the sports woud be cheaper than 100 a kid
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[busbeey]

Well hoiii, with that post you have just summed up the kind of miopic thinking that plagues this district. Well, if I save 150 dollars, then My kids is okay, but to hell with every other person the is affected in some way. By the way, if the budget goes down, the austerity budget is 270 dollars. That means your taxes are going up 270 dollars NO MATTER WHAT! So by your thinking, 300 plus 270 equal 570, which is 120 more then the 450 the new budget call for. Doesent make much sense.

People seem to think that if they vote no, their taxes will stay the same. This is 100% WRONG. This is what people have to realize. Is 180 dollars enough to send your district into a state of educational and communal crisis?

What if your children want to play more then one sport? What is a family has five children, just forget them? Also, just to refute that theory, the price of each sport will be 230 dollars, not 100 as you say. Therefore, 690 is way more then 450, and that's that.

We have to start thinking about the future of our districe if this budget goes down. There is no guaranted that they will even offer sports as a option to be paid for. You will have teenagers walking the streets with nothing to do after 3 o'clock. Parents will pay incredible amount for daycare for their children who will not have full-day kindergarten. The only ones who will be affected will be the children, no matter how you slice this.

[BigWhite1]

We the taxpayers have continued to give till we were blue in the face! The Schools need to respect the voters wishes and not keep using our children to shake us down! People need to understand that kids get out of an education what they put into it, no matter what the budget! So quit treating your kids like Veals, they'll live...just like we all have. I'M SORRY, BUT THE COMMUNITY HAS SPOKEN...NO MEANS NO!!!!
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[twopiro]

It's too bad that on June 22, yes will mean yes! I am sensing a real turn-around in this community for the betterment of the collective. We will come together in two weeks and make our children proud. Vote Yes! Yes! yes!

[BigWhite1]

Sorry "yes means yes" Working class families (meaning those working more than 8mos a year) and the elderly are fed up. Your right! There is a turn around in the community...and its NO! TO MORE WASETFUL SPENDING! I also believe that this Re-vote has only provoked an already angered community. I predict it will be crushed by a much larger margin than the over 1100 votes in the previous election. Once again proving...NO MEANS NO!!! If however you are not satisfied with the amount you spend on your child or children then by all means send them to private school and you'll be able to sleep better at night. Because after all that will make you a "good" parent.
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[No1dadNY]

Sorry Big White, but this budget is going to pass. You really need to come to the Q and A session on June 10 and see the outpouring of support that this community has now shown. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the community is going to come together and do what is right for the children. I agree with twopiro, as the welfare of West Islip is going to persevere! Vote yes! Let's make sure we win by as big a margin as we were defeated last time.
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[wiparent7]

It's obvious from his answer that bigwhite is not a parent that cares about their community at all. That's right, vote no, no matter what the facts are, no matter what the miniscule difference the austerity and contingency budget will differ, no matter what the children will lose for years to come. Why don't you do us a favor and send your kids to private school. Cause "You" seem like a fantastic parent who values a sound education You clearly don't know the facts, or even care to know them. You clearly just want to pass negative vibes. Vote YES!

[Emmabird]

No1dadNY I posted the link to show the difference and similaries of the 2001 re-vote to the current one. I should have written that in case someone didnt realize it but thanks for pointing it out so nicely during this crucial time! Edited by: Emmabird at: 6/7/04 8:13 am

[nicdkoptonlinenet]

I agree with Emmabird AND maybe alot of the people wanting to vote yes / no would feel different if they could see to whom or where our school taxes are going. If all was accounted for, spent the way the tax payers wished...nobody would feel ripped off. Not even the teachers. A Corporate Efficiency Company GREAT idea...I for one would love to see if that would happen!

[ABC123]

There is so much blatant misinformation on this webring that it is absurd. Each of the people who seem to be so fired up about voting no don't have their facts straight at all. I don't know where the idea that the school district is "out to get you" is coming from, but it's simply not justified or valid. There are only a handful of people on this webring that seem to have a handle on what's really going on. I hope to see all of you at the Board Meeting on Thursday night.
Before I sign off, I would like to make one prediction: Those of you who spend all this energy complaining about everything will be the same people complaining next year when there are scores of kids roaming the neighborhoods next year with no sports or clubs to keep them occupied. Isn't that ironic? Some of you really need to get a clue.

[Emmabird]

Quote:Each of the people who seem to be so fired up about voting no don't have their facts straight at all. I don't know where the idea that the school district is "out to get you" is coming from, but it's simply not justified or valid.

Maybe its not that easy to get the facts when everything seems to be so tightly under wraps and as a parent who is not "actively" involved in the district because my child is not in the school system I find it sneaky that I get a notice in the mail and have to find out from a neighbor whose children are in school what its all about....

I never said they were out to get me, but I feel that way sometimes when its such a polititcal tool for those on the inner circle to know what is going on and those paying for it having to dig past the surface to find out what they are rightfully intitled to know is going on. I am not happy with paying more each month to live here for what other districts get. If my child doesnt have full day kindergarten what about those whose children get it. Doesn't add up to me....if its such a great school system whats so great about it when its falling apart, high taxes and threats to take away what I feel to be necessary for our children to thrive because they dont know how to budget themselves???? Someone enlighten me.

Its a shame to think the new teachers in this district are going to get pink slips becuase they do not have tenure either way yes or no becuase the higher ups dont know how to manage this school system.
Edited by: Emmabird at: 6/7/04 4:45 pm

[Tony B]

Quote: Each of the people who seem to be so fired up about voting no don't have their facts straight at all.

I have been trying to get answers here and elsewhere and have not been able to do so. Please feel free to enlighten me on the following:

1. Why have the taxes associated with the school district budget risen at 4 times the rate of inflation since 1997? (16% vs 60%)

2. The teachers say they only get a 3% raise, yet they represent the lions share of the budget...so where is all the other money going?

3. The district is now saying that less than $200 (average) per household will save all the programs planned for cut if the budget fails, yet according to the numbers the district themselves put on the web, the programs they plan to cut would require closer to $600 per home to save. That is odd math...please clarify.

Quote:Some of you really need to get a clue.

I am trying to get a clue, but haven't been able to thus far. I want to vote yes, but want to be confident I understand the facts before I decide. You seem to have a firm understanding on all the facts, so share!
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[ChrisF202]

Quote:2. The teachers say they only get a 3% raise, yet they represent the lions share of the budget...so where is all the other money going?
My teacher brought a copy of the budget in, she wouldent discuss where the extra money goes. I wonder why? Does Roslyn sound familar?

Quote:3. The district is now saying that less than $200 (average) per household will save all the programs planned for cut if the budget fails, yet according to the numbers the district themselves put on the web, the programs they plan to cut would require closer to $600 per home to save. That is odd math...please clarify.
Its just a scam to get people to vote yes, I calculated on the day they relased the planed budget the the $200 wouldent pay for all of it.
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[No1dadNY]

This is getting really crazy now. The district is using 500,000 in reserves to cover the cost of the saved programs if the budget is approved. PLEASE get your facts straight before you post info that is so BLANTANTY WRONG! Please pick up a copy of the new budget at the schools today, it describes ITEM BY ITEM where each dollar is going. This should help you out, TonyB. If you still have questions, come to the Q and A on Thursday night, or the budget presentation on next Tuesday night. The problem is that it's easier to just say "It's a scam, just like Roslyn!!!" instead of really thinking and discussing the issues. I already know of a couple of families that are moving out of West Islip if the budget goes down. They want to be part of a good school district, and this will NOT BE ONE if the budget goes down. Vote yes!
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[WI Alumni]

Everyone here seems to be jumping to some major conclusions... Everyone has the right to their own opinion, however you need to come to understand what will happen if this budget fails, and what your no vote really means.

The proposed budget difference is going to be approximately $15.00 a month for the average homeowner with a house tax assessed at $45,000. Is the $15 a month out of your pocket that horrible when you see what will happen if the budget fails.

As an alumni of this school district, just in the past few years, the district has grown by leaps and bounds. I wish that I had half the opportunities a few short years ago, that these children have today.

For those of you that are confused about this budget, come to the Q & A on Thursday night at the high school, and see what it is all about. Feel free to ask that question that you are confused about. But please, don't put that "yes" vote out of your mind.

As a community we need to come together as a whole, and support this district and school budget, because if we don't, it will not be a good situation for years to come.

[Tony B]

Quote:For those of you that are confused about this budget, come to the Q & A on Thursday night at the high school, and see what it is all about. Feel free to ask that question that you are confused about. But please, don't put that "yes" vote out of your mind.

I plan to attend the meeting, and hope that my questions are answered. I want to support my community, my kids, and my schools, but throwing good money after bad is not a way to show such support.

I keep seeing the...

Quote:approximately $15.00 a month for the average homeowner with a house tax assessed at $45,000

...numbers being kicked around here and mentioned when I have spoken to people within the school, but as I keep repeating, this $15 a month represents only a fraction of what the district originally claimed would be needed to save all the programs slated for cut. No one has been able to tell me why less than $2,000,000 will now save programs the district previously told us would cost over $5,000,000 to save.

Where is the $3,000,000 difference? Was the district lying when they gave us the original totals? Are they lying when they say they will need to cut all the things they now say they will need to cut? I am not making these numbers up, or playing games with statistics...I am simply using the districts own numbers and cost estimates. Don't you feel they should be able to explain this? If they cannot on Thursday, I am not sure I can support financing a system that refuses to be accountable to those paying the bills. Perhaps they will be able to clear this up, and then I will feel better about supporting the revised budget. We'll see what happens.

I am not too confident my questions will be answered at the meeting on Thursday, as I have been to too many such meetings and seen how ugly they get. If history repeats itself there will be some fanatical supports of the schools who will attempt to drown out any discussion that even has a hint of being in question of approval. My parents have told me they recalled meetings where people with differing views that dared to speak negatively of the schools and budgets were actually physically attacked! I will try to get my answers, but I will have to see what kind of climate exists on Thursday.

I agree that it is too soon to call this another Roslyn, and have not seen any concrete signs that such a characterization is deserved, but I am sure that many were asking questions before the you know what hit the fan, and I am also sure there were others who felt those doing the questioning were being uncaring and mean spirited. I want to pay for a good education for my kids, not to support fiscal irresponsibility. Prove to me that we have the former here in West Islip, and I will support ANY increases!
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[Tony B]

why this question is important to me...

If the district can simply re-work the numbers when put under a little pressure, and save programs with only 40% of the money they originally said they would require, why can't they apply such strategies system wide?

Can they trim that same 60% out of other areas of the budget? How about just 40%, or even 20%?

Some may say why worry about the 2 or 3 million so much, it is just a fraction of a budget that is over $70 million total, but what if those same cost savings are possible elsewhere? 60% or $70 million is $42 million! I am not saying that a 60% savings is realistic, but if the district can simply make 60% of the costs of these other programs vanish into thin air...I want them to explain how they did it!

Sorry to be beating a dead horse here!
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[gadfly]

School tax rebate....we are already getting a reduction in County/Town taxes for being a volunteer firefighter....This would be a great incentive for the Volunteer Fire Fighters in West Islip.Being everybody is all fired up over passing the Budget Let's make some concisions.Because If this gets passed most of Your Firefighters can't make ends meet now. Holy crap just keep pushing it on some more.You will be rolling the Trucks from inside of the High Schools with Teaches on the apparatus.This is no joke......What goes up must come down. this School District needs to stop using the kids to scare the community into submission.The kids are the best thing we have as a community. This should be preserved at all cost. But let's cut the High paid administration. Put the teachers back into the class room.As a solution I think that St Johns should take over the High School they are not a Tax Burden.Yes being tax exempted they don't contribute to the tax base in West Islip.The students pay for there after school sports uniforms etc...Whats there budget? they run fundraisers to support after school activities.I have said that most of the parents live in appartments and the landloards pay the tax on the property.Don't forget the parents who don't live in the Town but still drive there kids into West Islip to school on mine and your dime.Thats ok? Let's investigate the abuse first then we can agree on Voting Yes.....
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[gadfly]

School tax rebate....we are already getting a reduction in County/Town taxes for being a volunteer firefighter....This would be a great incentive for the Volunteer Fire Fighters in West Islip.Being everybody is all fired up over passing the Budget Let's make some concisions.Because If this gets passed most of Your Firefighters can't make ends meet now. Holy crap just keep pushing it on some more.You will be rolling the Trucks from inside of the High Schools with Teaches on the apparatus.This is no joke......What goes up must come down. this School District needs to stop using the kids to scare the community into submission.The kids are the best thing we have as a community. This should be preserved at all cost. But let's cut the High paid administration. Put the teachers back into the class room.As a solution I think that St Johns should take over the High School they are not a Tax Burden.Yes being tax exempted they don't contribute to the tax base in West Islip.Also let's stop the kids from out of town going to West Islip School...St Johns after School programs are paid for by the parents.....Let's look at there budget
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[ABC123]

The "trimming" that the budget has done includes the relinquishment of more than you know. The new, proposed budget that will be up for the vote at the end of the month includes cutting all elementary clubs, intramurals, JV9 sports, music programs, the gifted and talented programs, summer school, the elimination of almost 30 paraprofessionals, and conferences, among several other things. NOT Jeep Cherokees. This is NOT Roslyn.

[exswatter]

I'm pretty sure the Town Of Huntington's plan provides a break after 5 years of service, which will hopefully separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak, but I'm pretty sure it's 10% across the board. Time will tell if it brings the people in. Unlike Nassau, there are a lot of VAC's that can be attractive to a greater cross section of the populus.
Be safe. (didn't get a new name yet, LOL)

[Tony B]

Well I went and got a copy of the budget, and the numbers are starting to make some more sense. It doesn't look like they plan to cut all the things NYDad1 said they would cut, so the accounts for most of the difference. There are still some lingering questions, but not as major as before. The cuts they describe are pretty nasty sounding even if they aren't all the things originally rumored. I look forward to the public meetings on these issues...hope they remain civil.


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[looking for answers]

Teachers deserve a living as well as any one else, however, when is enough enough. I always thought that a public school district was run in the best interest of the child.........seems to me West Islip is run in the best interest of the teachers and administrators. Its funny that we'd cut 60 teachers before cutting some of the fat at the top. Why does the high school need principals, vice principals, and numerous deans on top of that? The kindergarten thing does not effect me as far as my children go but it still bothers me. When kindergarten falls by the way side you can be sure the value of your home will too. 9 out of 10 people want to live here because of the school district. thats the reason I bought my house .... but I think its time we wake up and realize this district operates on a 30 year old reputation. Here's an idea, instead of taking kindergarten away why don't we do away with the night school offered at the high school for those main stream students that disrupt the functions of a school day. Instead of making children behave, we give them a night school to go to. Lets think of how much money running that night school costs us....gotta have a principal right? and teachers ? of course. and remember these teachers get paid extra even though they are salaried employees. Anything outside of their 6 hour work day constitutes extra pay. Where I come from Salary means Salary. The other thing that gets me is that we cannot cut anything away from the teachers etc. because they are covered by their union contracts.....funny when everything to do with the school board states "West Islip a Union Free school district"!!! I also don't like the way we go about this budget. We are all being "threatened" that if we don't vote yes our children will suffer. These children are everyones future .. and sorry to say it don't look to promising. I hear that the Oquenock PTA handed out this budget "threat" during field day. Can we get any closer to the bottom of the barrel? With a school district in such a deficit does our superintendent really need to go on every single conference there is? Her "mini vacations" are costing us a fortune. Since we the tax payers actually "own" the school district, we should be the ones to determine what gets cut and I'm SURE there is plenty of fat that can be cut before we even take away from the kids. It's funny that the supply closets in the district offices are filled more then the ones in our schools. The bottom line .... the big picture.....the school district is run on reputation alone......if we do go through with cutting all the sports and kindergarten and all the extras, we might as well sell now....because our community known for its schools and sports is just a figment of our imaginations. Might as well get your moneys worth before your home is not worth anything. I will be sure to vote this budget down ... and everyone after it unless someone starts thinking of the children.

[Ann West]

It seems to me that No1dadNY is either a bit confused or employed by the school system. Lets examine a few things that he conveniently seems to neglect.

Over the last 2 years the size of the student body has shrunk by almost one third. He doesn't tell you to go to the NY State web site and read the PDF file on our school does he? Any reasonable person would come to the conclusion that less students require less money but he would have us believe the reverse is true.

He comes up with this mythical figure of $165 dollars as how much our taxes are going to go up. That's like the school board literature that uses the mystery $40,000 west islip house as an example! WHERE is this house in west islip? Of course there is no $40,000 house in WI. He knows full well that the Median price in Suffolk County is about $217,000 and the Median in WI is over $300K. So much for Truth In Advertising umm?

He goes on and on about suffering and program cuts ad nauseum. The truth of the matter is simply this. There will be no cuts in the core curriculum and ANY cuts of any significance will result in a backlash that will make the school board's head swim!

He would have you believe that the taxpayers don't know the difference between Crap & Crisco. Vote No!

[Ann West]

It seems to me that No1dadNY is either a bit confused or employed by the school system. Lets examine a few things that he conviently seems to neglect.

Over the last 2 years the size of the student body has shrunk by almost one third. He doesn't tell you to go to the NY State web site and read the PDF file on our school does he? Any reasonable person would come to the conclusion that less students require less money but he would have us believe the reverse is true.

He comes up with this mythical figure of $165 dollars as how much our taxes are going to go up. That's like the school board literature that uses the mystery $40,000 west islip house as an example! WHERE is this house in west islip? Of course there is no $40,000 house in WI. He knows full well that the Median price in Suffolk County is about $217,000 and the Median in WI is over $300K. So much for Truth In Advertising umm?

He goes on and on about suffering and program cuts ad nauseum. The truth of the matter is simply this. There will be no cuts in the core curriculum and ANY cuts of any signifigance will result in a backlash that will make the school board's head swim!

He would have you believe that the taxpayers don't know the difference between Crap & Crisco.

[Bill Quick]

Eliminate para-professionals? Well abc123 that term would have to include 'Teachers' since any school district that has about 20% of 8'th graders not passing the standardized test must be staffed ONLY by para-professonals.

STOP whining!! Jeeesh NO Kindergarten? Kindergarten is nothing more than State Sponsored Day Care! Your kid doesn't learn squat in kindergarten, period!

Here's a thought, why not just CLOSE all west islip schools and send them over to a Suffolk Community College? It's cheaper AND these idiots babbeling about kindergarten can go over to King Cullen and run at the mouth about how their 5 year old moron is in College!?

Don't kid yourselves about your property values going down if you vote no. Anyone moving to this town that is REALLY concerned about the school system already knows that our school system has been listed as 'Below Other Schools' in area's with people of the same income. (according to the NYS Website)

These Teachers should be Shunned!
Vote NO!!

[No1dadNY]

My, my Ann, you seem a bit uneducated, don't you? Saying that the core-curriculum is not going to be cut, and that any cuts that will affect the education of our children will not happen if the budget goes down is just the fantasy of someone who wants to vote no, at the great expense of their community. These cuts will happen, go to the Q and A tomorrow, for goodness sake! As for saying that I am employed by the school district, that is another example of your ignorance. I have three children in this school system, two in Bayview. The house assessed at 45,000 is the MAXIMUM value looked at, which is why the cut of 178 dollars, or 49 cents a day, stands for every house over that amount. Boy oh boy. Please vote yes, and don't let "citizens" like this drown this community.
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[Hunter Ave]

I read your post abc123 and the soda came flying out of my nose!

So? YOU think cutting music programs is somehow going to affect your no talent 10 year old? Watching too much American Idol? SPEND the money and get your neanderthal some music lessons!

CUT after school clubs? Like what? The Chess Club? No money in the budget for another 89 cents plastic chess board? Maybe the Debating Club? LOTS of money spent on that no doubt. It's better you put your brats in the Boy or Girl Scouts and save the money!

Conferences?? WHY would a budget cut affect that?? The budget cut doesn't effect teachers salarys, so why would conferences be cut? OH..maybe you mean... paid days off where Teachers go to a party and get drunk all day? We'll all mourn that cut for sure!

Para Professionals?? OH! You MEAN 'Teachers Aids'! So what are you saying? Your kids are going to suffer because Teachers would have to actually work??? Why would a Teacher, in a school, with such SMALL class sizes need an AID??

Summer School? Why?? Teachers are still getting their raises no matter what budget is passed!

It's as simple as this, the Teachers Union took a bath when their pension fund nose dived and the tax payers are making up for it with this budget!

This farce of a buget is All About money in a teachers pocket and NOTHING About the good of the kids!

But then you knew that didn't you?

VOTE NO!

[Ann West]

Well #1nydad, you're pretty good at both fantasy AND propoganda!

A: There is NO $45,000 House In W.I.

B: To propose a budget and suggest the tax increase is going to be based on a fictious price is.. Fraud!

C: The TRUTH... is something you seem to think can be 'parsed' umm?

D: People like YOU are the reason W.I. Taxpayers came out in FORCE to Defeat The Budget!

So, rant on and get used to the fact that the BUDGET is going to be DEFEATED Again!

[looking for answers]

You obviously haven't had children in the elementary grades for a while. Kindergarten is more then just a play date. To my amazement my sons entire kindergarten class was reading by the end of the year. Nowadays kindergarten is a necessity ... there are much more demands and expectations of these children. My son was reading in Kindergarten ... I don't think I read until the 2nd grade. I think times are changed.

[No1dadNY]

No Ann, It is selfish people like you that will make the community come together and overwhelmingly PASS this budget! So kepp on ranting yourself, and get used to the fact that this budegt is going to pass! You are the propaganda master! If you actually read the booklet sent out by the district, the 45,000 amount is the amount assessed any house valued between 45,000 and 1,500,000. I'm sorry, but 178 dollars a year is not too much to ask to save your community. But I guess you don't care about things like that. Go soup up that new car!
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[Higbie3]

Bill Quick, that may be the most un-informed post that I have ever read. Some of the peopel that are posting on this board are just clueless. Ann, you are clearly someone with their own agenda, and have no regard for anyone but yourself. To suggest that kindergarten is nothing but extended daycare is insanity. I have seen many children in this years second and first grade MILES ahead of the children that came out of half-day. Pleasse don't let these selfish, un-caring people ruin our district, vote YES!

[gadfly]

Hey, look at you Bro....Yes 10% My Department Rebate does not include School we have written a letter requesting same but we have no answer as of yet.Thanks for the heads up.But I wasn't kidding when I said students attending West Islip Schools are from out of Town.Three kids at the bus stop on my block. How do you prevent this?How many are there?.I just heard that the total rebate will be 20%who knows.Any way the community will have to decide if the budget passes.Nobody wants to hurt the kids but School Districts need to be fiscally responsibe. Stay cool swat.
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[Tony B]

You can see from my posts that I am not a blind supporter of the budget, but your comments about NO $45,000 houses existing in WI is wrong. EVERY house is a $45,000 house, or less because we are talking about assessed value, not actual value.

I agree with some of what you say but it helps when you ground your rants in fact not fantasy.
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[Tony B]

...but as you say...

Quote:don't let "citizens" like this drown this community.

Some of those who are putting their views up here are not being rational in their opposition to the budget, they are just being selfish. I readily agree that the district has been irresponsible in their budgets, but comments about sending kindergartners to college or King Kullen are just moronic. It sounds like some would prefer the schools simply went away entirely. They were probably singing a different tune when their kids were in school!

People like that, more than any budget make me wish I lived elsewhere. :">
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[Van Buren 31]

The 45,00 is an ASSESSED value, what every house is at least valued at. Ann, if you did ANY kind of careful thinking or research, you would know this. The levels of ignorance on this board astound me. Yes, the people on both sides have some valid points, but saying that Kindergarten does not matter, or that the teachers are to blame for this matter, are just not correct. Please don't vote no just bacause you want to "Get Back" at all of the bad people that are ruining your life. Think about the total picture, and what the results of a no vote will be. I for one don't want hundreds of teenagers wandering the neiborhoods every afternoon. The sad thing is that the same people that vote no will be the same ones who ask why crime has increased, and the first ones to complain about the kids hanging around the streets!

[No1dadNY]

1.Defeated Budget Proposal $82,919,999
2. Revised Budget Proposal $81,242,439
3. Contingent Budget if Revised Budget is Defeated
$78,281,201

Tax Increase on Avg. Home Assessed @ $45,000
Defeated= $625
Revised=$449
Contingent= $272

Monthly Tax Increase on Avg. Home
Defeated=$52.08
Revised= $37.42
Contingent= $22.67

Monthly Tax Increase Difference Between Revised and Contingent Budgets

$14.75, or 49 cents a day. I think my children are worth that. Please vote yes and save this town!


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[BottomLine]

The bottom line is.....the Teachers Union is currupt and should be charged with racketeering just like the mobsters. Co-conspirators should be the New York State Assembly, and Sheldon Silver. And you may as well throw in the New York State Senate, the Governor, and the Police Unions as well.

This is NOT what our fore-fathers invisioned when they set up this great nation and the state of New York. This is pure-and-simple racketeering where our kids are held hostage to the demands of the teachers.

I say privitize all school districts. Let them cut back like a real business has to in order to break even. Let them learn to become more efficient just like the poor working man has to in order to compete in today's marketplace.

Multi-tasking in our public schools means teaching two consecutive periods in a row. OH, THE HORROR!!

These teachers have it SOOOOOOO easy. I really can't blame the local districts because they are MANDATED to pay ransome to these crooks. However, administrators aren't much better. Bleeding the system with their exorbinant pay packages, benefits and golden parachutes.

I say we get Elliot Spitzer involved and start prosecuting these theives for what they really are: Intellectual Mobsters!!!!

Vote NO to the West Islip Budget. Send a message to these crooks that we will not let our children be held hostage to their criminal ways.

[Higbie44]

That last post was pretty funny, and scary at the same time. Please take a look at the posts saying to vote no, and you will see a pattern of insanity, dellusion, and non-sensical ranting. Vote yes, and send these crazies a lesson!

[Conspiracy]

Hey everyone,

Keep an eye on the sign on the lawn of the middle school on Udall Road. Last year, at about 6:00PM, the West Islip School District had the sign reading, "Congratulations West Islip on passing the school budget". This was 3 hours before the voting was scheduled to end. Can you imagine how many homeowners saw that sign on the way home from work and decided not to vote because the budget already passed?

What a CRIME!

If they do it again this year, I will be taking a picture and calling News12 immediately. Heads are gonna fly. People WILL be losing their cushy jobs because of this.

These teachers and administrators are the most treacherous group of people around. They sit around all day plotting how they are going to take advantage of the homeowners and used the students as pawns in their game of chess. Well, for now on they won't be winning this game any longer.

Vote NO and make them worker for a change.

[Higbie44]

I work right near the grounds at Udall, and saw NO SUCH SIGN last year. What a crock! Vote yes!

[WI Alumni]

I simply don't think anyone knows what they are talking about anymore... The only thing that people who support this budget are looking for is support for the kids. Does anyone who keeps saying "Vote No" realize what you would be doing to this community and district?? A vote no would crush this community as a whole. For those of you that keep saying vote no, do you have kids in the district??? Because this district will be a place that you won't want to live in when there is no program left but strict academics for the kids.

I am an alumni of this school district, and would like to eventually one day settle down here with my own kids, but who is going to want to do that when the schools will be horrible?? House values will go down the tube... You ask the people around this town why they moved to West Islip, and more than likely they will tell you its because of the schools.

For those that are saying teachers don't do anything, you've got it wrong.

So before you come to an opinion and start throwing useless and information that is not correct out on the table, come and get the facts. Pick up a copy of the new school budget at one of the buildings, or come to tonight's board meeting where the first half hour or so will be a question and answer session. I think it will be an eye-opening experience for all, when you see how much community support there is for this budget.

[gadfly]

Conspiracy,I was driving to the WIFD Sub-sta when we saw the sign read Budget passed. I commented to those other Firefighters that the voting was till 9:00pm this was premature.So if this happens again contact this agency.


NEW YORK STATE ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE

PUBLIC INTEGRITY UNIT

The Public Integrity Unit brings civil and criminal actions to vindicate the public?s interest in honest government and the integrity of governmental officials at the state and local level. Specifically, the Unit handles complex investigations into government corruption, fraud and abuse of authority. Among other statutes, the Unit enforces the "Tweed Law" (N.Y. Exec. Law 63-c) which broadly empowers the Attorney General to bring suit to recover any governmental funds (state or local) that have been "without right obtained."


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[theproducer100000]

why is it that they always use the kids, the kids will suffer is all we ever here, thats bull crap this is our town, we should call the shots not let the unions tell us how its going to be, and if we don't see it their way your kids will suffer. What is this the mafia.

Listen when the economy turned south a few years back my pay check went down, and i know plenty of people who took pay freezes, yet from the janitors on up they all saw their pay increase.

What is killing the system is that their is a limited amount of resources to draw from, there is a specific number of residents to get money out of, how ever the majority of the budget funds teacher pensions and health benefits. it can't work.
a teacher works for 25 years so they retire when they are 55 they live till their 80 that means they get 25 years of pay for nothing, and the kicker is they didn't even pay into the system, minimum at best with union dues. they can make 85k thousand dollars a year not save one dime for retirement and collect almost 64k a year in retirement, me if i don't plan my retirement there is none!! it bull crap, they should have to fund their own retirements and pay half of their health benefits,living off hard working people and then having the balls to tell me if i don't pass this your going to take it out on my kids is BS. if somebody came to you and said give me all your money are i will kill your kids what are you going to do!!
get pissed people because that is exactly what they are saying to you!!

[piggyback]

The district is not saying that they will hurt your children on purpose if the budget doesn't pass. You guys have some pretty elaborate conspiracy theiories going. They are simply saying that they will not have the money to support these programs that THEY WANT AS MUCH AS YOU! Go to the meeting tonight and get the facts, please. By the way, West Islip teachers make the fifth lowest average salary on Long island, and The teachers that would be excised make an average of 34,000 dollars a year. My My, what high rollers! Your no vote will not reach anyone but the poor new teachers trying to pay off their 100,000 dollar student loans. Vote Yes!

[vanburen1]

Right On, piggyback. Why should these teachers live in poverty to teach YOUR children. If you don't wanna pay, send the kids to private school, for goodness sakes! You get what you pay for! Vote yes and let's pass this budget!

[gadfly]

It has been 30Yrs or so since. I went to the West Islip School System.I have resided for 50 yrs in West Islip.This District is one sided and believe me they are working for there own best interest.I went to Board meeting in the past these meetings are a major stroke...I am still waiting for the answers concerning the sale of the South Gate School.This Meeting with all of it's supporters. I hope there Home owners, not Renters or Living out side of the District.
I am sick and tired of the rhetoric .These days it is not very hard to find egregious examples of exploitation of tax payers and the working people.We need a public advocate now! more then ever.I have been very active in this community.I support the Schools but when does it stop....My tax bill is $10.800.00 so nobody can tell me how. I should Vote in this next Budget session.Going to Board meetings are a waste of time as far as I'm concerned.I have met with over 2000 residents and the feelings are all the same so, tell me how is Voting yes for this New Budget is a positive thing.I belong to five active community groups. What you need to tell us, who ever cares to respond,is how our tax responsibility for the School will go down.It is a mistake to say that if spending matches the budget the School is well managed .The budget in my opinion is serving to foster an illusion of budgetary effectiveness.What is a solution cut back on the high income administration .This budget could be referred to as a 'phantom budget' once again.I think the community should develop an Office of Management & Budget review. An oversite committee which would over see The Schools,FD,Town,etc.This committee would serve as an advocate Which would report to the community a true analysis of the various budgets up for votes this would include bonds as well.I'm not talking about head hunters just concerned citizens Voted into office as community advocates.These people would work with the various boards to insure credibility of there accounting methods.(NOT TAX PAC) UNTIL THEN VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!
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[looking for answers]

I couldn't of said it better myself!!

We are upstanding middleclass americans working hard for everything we've got. I haven't seen a pay raise in 3 years....I pay 50% of my health benefits (don't even get dental) and my retirement fund is funded by me! I know this is true for 9 out of 10 Americans. These teachers better get over this mistaken thought that they are better then the rest of us. They certainly deserve to be paid, and they are certainly needed. But they are not above everyone else. They need to pay into their benefits and their retirement and if the existing teachers refuse, well their are plenty of unemployed teachers that would give the world for a job! Enough is Enough.

[Tony B]

you say...

Quote:I am an alumni of this school district, and would like to eventually one day settle down here with my own kids, but who is going to want to do that when the schools will be horrible?? ...

I now pay $6000 a year tax on a 2 bedroom, 1200 square foot house. The portion of those taxes associated with school taxes which is more than half that tax amount, has risen 60% since I bought my hose 7 years ago.

Will you be able to afford that when you want to settle down here? I want the best for my kids too, and don't hate teachers or begrudge them a good living, but inflation has only risen 16% in that same period. Doesn't that prompt ou to wonder what is happening?

I want to say yes, but when will these budget rises become realistic? I can guarantee you that voting yes won't be a step in that direction.

I am hoping to hear things tonight and next week that will make me feel that I am not a chump for voting yes.

We'll see.
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[Tony B]

Quote:Why should these teachers live in poverty to teach YOUR children

The average salary for a teacher in West Islip in 2003 was $55093. Considering teachers do not work a full year, we need to do some calculating to accurately compare a teaching salary to the salary of the typical 9-5 worker. When you do so, this would be about $77000 per year.

The average salary of a household in WI is about that same $77000, however that may be the result of two people working.

Do I think the teachers don't deserve this kind of pay? No, they earn their pay, but don't be ridiculous and call it poverty!
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[looking for answers]

In response not only does a teachers salary calculate out to 77,000 a year......what about the $12,000.00 or more in health benefits they get...not to mention retirement. These things too should be calculated into a teachers salary. .

[BigWhite1]

Less students+ more Teachers+ a Blatant disregard for the community's voice in the previous election= A NO VOTE! The economy is crappy, gas is over $2, The country is at War, my taxes went up $600 in the past year alone. When things are good we've always given. Whether it was to reopen and remodel an old school or expand the Library... but this is getting to be rigodamdiculous!!! The arrogance...as if we lowly civillians do not understand the ramifications of our actions!!!
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[Tony B]

I went to the school board meeting and Q&A tonight. At first, when the 7pm Q&A went off, the crowd was rather small and seemed to be primarily a "no" crowd. Not anti-teacher, not-anti-kids, just tired of the tax increases.

As it got closer to 8 many more parents showed up with kids. I believe they were probably there for something at the board meeting, which was due to start at 8. I believe most of these parents and kids were NOT there for the budget meeting, but probably to receive some award or recognition as I believe they do at such meetings.

Anyway, the crowd got definitely more "yes" as the parents and kids arrived.

Many people on the "no" side made good points and some very smart people (business people) had questions that the board seemed unable to answer. Others seemed upset that the budget will already cut programs for their kids in grade and middle school, and were wondering why they should bother to approve a budget now that has nothing in it for their kids.

On the yes side, the best point was made by an emotional gentleman who said "it is too late". What he meant was that the things we all hate about the budget were decided months or years ago, and all a no vote will do will deprive kids of programs. He said we need to get involved in events before the votes, help vote in a new board, and do things that will result in a more reasonable budget, not just reject this one.

He made good points, but I did take issue with his opinion that house values would go down if the quality of schools goes down. While this may be true, I think house values will also decline if our tax rates continue to soar. I know a few people who said it made no sense to buy in WI, as the schools are not much better than many others, yet the taxes are much higher. I know there are many factors that have lead to this high tax rate (lack of industry among them), but this is a real concern in my mind.

Anyway, that is my take on things.

Still not sure how to vote!
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[gadfly]

As you can see from the posting. I went to the School Board meeting last night? What did they find out.The value of your home will go down.Real informative?
The school board who are Voted in to office unopposed get to sit there and decide what you and I can afford.The WISD has no substance what they need to do is stop feeding there special group of supporters favors in return for Pac money so they can be reelected each term.Also remember the people who will benefit from all of this will be able to retire (not in poverty) but well off.Also where do they live not in West Islip they would never pay the Taxes that we pay, there to smart.My fellow west Islip residents we are having the blood suck out of us and it needs to stop now!every body predicted that there would be a re-vote because this the way they operate.If they lose the after school programs then they lose the extra pay they receive it's not about the kids .It's about the Money...I have a lot of contact with the students in West Islip most can't read or write if you think we are getting a real bang for our buck then your kidding your self don't be fooled.I think before a child registers for school the parent should have to show a Tax bill or deed showing that they are the home owner and just like the employer who checks Driver License each year the same should apply to the student registration check each year by the school administration.
If the child's parents can't show that they own a home in West Islip then they would have to pay to enroll there child.This will also reduce unlawful apartments.If you can't prove that you own a home you should pay.Unless the home owner who already pays anyway would have the option to sign off if the child is a Blood relative,Foster Child, etc.I think what really concerns the public is the credibility of the public servants today.Are they self serving or are they serving the Tax payer and the children's best interest.Just because they tell us they are doesn't make it so.This is why we need over site of the spending.The public has a right to know what it cost to run the District.Not some report that you need a CPA to read and interpret.The community needs to come out from it's coma.We elected the Officials so we didn't have to worry about the affairs of the Day to day operations of the Schools.Well I think the School should work on a contingency Budget. Operate under a state -mandated spending plan.My reaction to this issue is motivated by the consequences of the high cost of living and the choice that we all need to make in these hard fiscal times.There is not one issue which makes us
critical of this essential service to our community.Education is essential.Thus School Board's provide little remedy and comfort to the tax payer in
my opinion.The day of penny-wise and pound foolish is irresponsible for the School Board this is taxing on the home owner these embittered taxpayers can't stand no more!Most of us are laypersons when it comes to understanding the budgets of our Government agencies,Again we should us every professional available to us to strengthen our political arm for our future. Perhaps now more then ever our analysis is necessary, and will continue,in order to fully examine management's wasteful practices.Maybe this sound like micromanagement but in order to reduce higher taxes our School's need to be more fiscally efficient.

VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The tail is wagging the Dog

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[No1nyMOM]

I think NY Dad would be better served spending his time over at planned parenthood instead of bragging about his failed marriage and how many kids he has in a broken family in different towns. He's obviously the poster boy for the kind of dad no one is proud of.

Let me make Ann's statement correct for those with limited vision. There is NO home in W.I. assessed at $45K. IF the school board were dealing honestly with the taxpayers they would use the MEDIAN assessed value of a home. (which is well over $250K). Automatically nydads figures are at least 6 times higher.

Although I found Bill Quicks post both passionate and funny he is correct about kindergarten. Despite what you may wish to believe the primary purpose of kindergarten is to inflate enrollment for the purpose of recieving federally matching funds. It has no educational value per se and children do not do better academically from the experience. You will never find kindergarten in Catholic Schools where children both read and write script by the middle of 1'st grade while children W.I. public schools are still Block Printing in 3'rd grade.

As a retired educator I can tell you full well that it's not the money but the people that handle the money. In our case, i'm sad to say they demonstrate an incompetence and contempt for the people of our community that is disgraceful!

IF, these teachers were so concerned about the budget, the West Islip Teachers Association (WITA) would not have spent $4,500 do buy posters to blanket the town with vote yes posters and instead have donated that money to ALL of the programs they want you to think are going to be cut.

I agree, Save The Community!
Vote NO!

[charlie]

I went to the school meeting.

When the member of the school board spoke about property values going down it reminded me of the kung fu scene in the first Matrix movie when Morpheus asked Neo...' Do You Think That's Air You're Breathing?'

What the school bored consistently fails to mention is that West Islip is PRIME property! Consider this... IF we eliminated the school completly our taxes would go down by at least 2/3'rds!

With a Tax Rate that LOW our property values would Sky Rocket!!! Yuppies working in the NYC would be shooting each other to move into what our neighboring communitys refer to as White Islip!

No Minoritys + Low Taxes = HIGH Property Values!!

Think of what would happen! You could actually walk into a store and find a clerk that didn't have a bone, pin or sparkle in their nose or eyebrow and actually KNEW how to make change for a dollar!

Lines would get shorter!

Gas prices would go down because you wouldn't have to drive over to Jersey to get a gallon of milk simply because shopping in W.I. is like going to a nose picking Halloween Parade!

We could turn the HS into a Driving Range! And add busisness tax dollars to the rolls!

Traffic Congestion would dissapear!! All these low IQ soccer moms and their SUV's would go else where!!! Is there ANYTHING more stupid than a MOM in a 4 Wheel Drive SUV On Long Island??? Somebody should give these bimbo's a clue!! MOVE TO TEXAS!

The Communitys Health would Improve! Did YOU know that last year W.I. schools reported over 71 cases of LICE in students in grades 1 to 8 ?? Scary Isn't It?!!

Most of the kids that come out of the W.I. HS are dumber than dirt to start with so why even have them here and go through all this aggrevation anyway?

Vote NO! Not only can we get rid of these (cough) kids, but their Jerry Springer Watching Moms Too!!
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[gadfly]

What about the South Gate School Sale where is the Money,Is it all spent or did the crew who are all gone take it.Was this Money put into capital reserve.What was the sale price?Who was the buyer?
Hoe about Newsday maybe they would like to look into this matter...........
NEW YORK STATE ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE

PUBLIC INTEGRITY UNIT

The Public Integrity Unit brings civil and criminal actions to vindicate the public?s interest in honest government and the integrity of governmental officials at the state and local level. Specifically, the Unit handles complex investigations into government corruption, fraud and abuse of authority. Among other statutes, the Unit enforces the "Tweed Law" (N.Y. Exec. Law 63-c) which broadly empowers the Attorney General to bring suit to recover any governmental funds (state or local) that have been "without right obtained."


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[looking for answers]

Listen pal your about as arrogant as these cheerleaders going around to ball fields with vote yes fliers.

I was agreeing with you up until you chose to cast judgement on people you know nothing about. I happen to be one of those "bimbo-suv driving-soccer moms" Why do I have an SUV on long island so that when there is snow on the ground my husband can get to work so that we can continue to pay these ridiculous taxes. You want to make points thats fine - don't you dare classify me as some jerry springer lovin bimbo..........

[Tony B]

No1nyMOM wrote...

Quote:As a retired educator

Yikes...I am glad you retired, as you don't seem to know much.


Quote:There is NO home in W.I. assessed at $45K

Wrong...my house is assessed at $39,000, my parents home, is also less than $45,000.

Quote:You will never find kindergarten in Catholic Schools

Wrong...check St Patrick's. Our Lady of Lourdes, and while not Catholic, St Peters. All have kindergarten, 2 out of three have full day.

I am still pondering whether to vote yes or no, but I am amazed at how poorly informed many people seem to be!



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[Tony B]

I agree with looking for answers that Charlie sounds out to lunch, but I couldn't let this one go...

Quote:Why do I have an SUV on long island so that when there is snow on the ground my husband can get to work

Say you like a big car, say it makes you feel safe, but NO one needs an SUV on LI because of snow! I have driven compact cars for almost 30 years and was never ever snowed in!

Now back to the budget debate...sorry for straying off topic!
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[nicdkoptonlinenet]

Let me help you, you must be confussed this is the " West Islip" school board, NOT the " MASTIC" school board.

[No1dadNY]

The post by No1momNY really sets the whole "no" argument back by leaps and bounds. Just read it, and realize that this the kind of person who is trying to get this budget defeated. The most incredible type of trailer-trash that is un-informed, inarticulate, and just plain wrong. Every one of her points lacks merit, and makes me, and the thousands of others who agree with me, even prouder to VOTE YES!
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[savewestislip99]

Well it is obvious that Ann and No1momny are the same person, tyring to back up each other's insane comments by pretending to be different people. I think Charlie is so crazy/stupid, that he would not eb able to think of changing names. These people have NO CLUE what in the world they are talking about. I was at the meeting last night, and a wonderfully informed man talked about why the budget should pass, and and the place EXPLODED INTO APPLAUSE LIKE A FOOTBALL STADIUM!!! Let thee people have their pipe-dreams, on June 23, The community will be saved. Help that dream come true and VOTE YES!

[kitn52]

Gas prices go up - we have no say....
Oil prices go up - we have no say....
Milk prices go up - we have no say....
State and county sales taxes go up - we have no say...
Federal taxes go up - we have no say....
Electric rates go up - we have no say....
Cable rates go up we have no say....
Cigarettes prices go up - we have no say....
do you see where I'm going with this,
unfortunately the only place where we seem to have a say is on School Taxes, so people exercise their right to say NO in the one place that they can, and unfortunately the result affects the kids... Don't take out your frustration on the rising costs of everything else that you have no control over, on the kids! Please vote yes!
Oh, and the cheerleaders handing out vote yes flyers, don't condemn them, they are just trying to get the budget passed It's not offensive material. If you don't want it, don't take it, or simple throw it away.

[IveHadEnough]

There are two words to settle this

[IveHadEnough]

There are two words to solve this problem


-------- TAX PAC ----------


If all funds are being distributed properly we've got nothing to fear. BRING IT ON.

[SUVsoccerMOM]

Charlie, That was great. I can't stop laughing. The sadest part is it is completely true. Have you seen these bimbo's in West Islip? They drive around in these big tanks and then they get out and their about 4' tall, wearing flip-flops, looking just like their daughters in the 10th grade. They stil think they are 16, but the wrinkles on their face show otherwise. They drive around White Islip all day spending their old man's money, talking on the cell phone and living in this REALITY WORLD. Someone should do a REALITY SHOW based on the White Islip Soccer Mom Bimbo's who sleep with the pool dudes during the day, shop the rest of the day, taxi the kids to dance-class, twirling, soccer, karate and then to their play dates. Some life. They need a good swift kick in the ass and get back to work. They remind me of the broads from Forest Hills. Their noses in the air, thinking they are the Cat's Pajamas. These women do NOT represent the hard-working people of West Islip. However, they are the make-up of our PTA because they refuse to have their meetings at night when the bread-winners can attend.

Have you seen these women? They are on the cell phone as they are pulling out of their driveway. They just left the house and they can't wait one minute to get back on the phone again. It's a sickness. Their husbands are so stressed-out because of the pressures at work and then they've got to come home to these whining babies who want to spend all their money and then spend daddies inheritance and then fork some more over to the school district with HUGE tax increases.

These women really need to get a life. You know who you are and you should really wake up and smell the coffee. If your old man is smart he will dump your wrinkled butt for a young hotty. That'll teach you to blow all that money!

[concerned]

I thought the issue here was the school budget and the education of our children, but perhaps I'm wrong. I have been following the comments and taking many with a "grain of salt". I found it amusing that those who comment on the education level of the students in West Islip are unable to spell themselves or to compose a grammatically correct sentence. When did this become a personal attack on the residents of West Islip? I thought when I moved here and my children began school that this community prided itself on being a community. The division over this budget is breaking this town apart. The fact of the matter is that costs for any business including that of a school district will always increase. Since contracts for negotiable items such as salaries, supplies, etc are negotiated at various times, sometimes the increases associated with these contracts will seem to be out of line with the current economy. The time to be involved in the protestation of contracts is when they are being negotiated, not two or three years after the fact. I find it insulting to the school board and this community that elected them to insinuate that they are basically thieves. Where were all of you when those board positions were open? All three board members whose term had expired ran UNOPPOSED this year.
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[concerned]

By the way, for those who think there is no home assessed at 45,000, my home is assessed at 41,800 with a taxable value after the STAR adjustment of 33,030. This equates to a $328 per year increase in school taxes which is less than $1 per day. While I empathize with those taxpayers who are struggling to survive in this community, it is imperative that homeowners understand that the market value of your home is directly related to the quality of your school district and to the level of crime/mischief in your community. I don't know anyone who volunteers to pay more for taxes or any other item. Why does the ability to say no to something give people the reason to say no? Many of these same people saying no to the school budget will be the same people wondering why these children are out on the street after school. Quality of life is about your community and where you live, not just about money.
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[concerned]

Sorry, I just feel the need to reply to a few comments made prior to my original message.

I am curious if that retired teacher is collecting her full pension which was funded in the same manner as teacher's current pensions are funded.

How many of those opposed to this budget voted yes when THEIR children were in school?

Confused about the SUV issue... I work outside the home, don't have a pool boy, hate shopping and yet I also happen to be a very involved PTA member with children in many activities including soccer. Guess what! I drive an SUV when I need to transport three children plus any friends needing rides to and from activities. Perhaps before SUVs were available, I'd be driving a station wagon. Is there a difference? I don't think station wagons are manufactured any longer. The days I am not responsible for transporting children, I drive a regular 5 passenger car. Does this have anything to do with the budget issue? I don't think so.
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Chevrolet bel air (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Bel_Air)

[SUVsoccerMOM]

Hey concerned,

This is the internet, not a grammar contest. Get over it.

I love how people who are losing an argument will always resort to criticizing grammar on an internet message board. It's not about grammar. It's about substance.

Although my rant about West Islip Soccer Moms was off-topic, it was meant to illustrate the types of people in this community who do more harm then good.

These women need a little reality check. They need to work a hard days work for a period of time to appreciate the value of money. Teachers are much the same as soccer moms. They sit around with their rose-colored glasses pondering how they are going to keep their cushy jobs at the expense of the taxpayers and students.

We need to fight these teachers and get them to start paying a fair share of their medical and retirement benefits. Just like the real world.

Also, pay raises should be based on test scores. That would really motivate these greedy, grubby slobs. Merit-based pay needs to be negotiated into these contracts. And I'm not talking merit bonuses on top of 5% salary increases. Their salary increase should be based on the success of the students.

As far as the soccer moms: Teach your kids how to respect people and how to respect the law (as in no cell phones while driving) and our nice little town will be rid of alot of problems.

[ChrisF202]

Heres my opinion on the budget; vote no. Yes, me and fellow students will suffer, but it might show the stupid school board and administration that things need to change. Im willing to suffer for good cause ... making West Islip schools a better place.

Another thing; today was the last day of classes and I remembered last year that one of the dean's took a school bus and some school security "agents" to one of the Fire Island beaches and started rounding up students who cut class to go to the beach, they also went after kids who were at the diners and other eating establishments in West Islip. Every kid who was absent today is written up and has to serve a dentition on the 1st day of school next year (unless they can prove they were sick). Is the legal? Basically is it ok for the dean to play sheriff and go around rounding people up (that are way off school property) as if it were a terrorist sweep and then to write up every student for a supposed cut (of which at least a quarter of the school was absent today) up? One more incident like this and im contacting the NYS Attorney General's Office.
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[dutycalls]

The past few post by concerned are wonderfully relevant, and show the merits of a yes vote. I love the people who say "My house is not worth 45,000! Who do they think they are kidding!" Oh boy.

And please people, realize that throwing insults and rhetoric will do nothing but deflate your already weak arguments.

Vote YES,YES, YES!

[dutycalls]

It's quite funny how perception can be so very different in different eyes. Sorry to say this SUVSOccermom, but the argument is DEFINITELY switching to the yes side. Look at the last few days on this board to see this trend. You are losin' buddy!

[Tony B]

Quote:I am curious if that retired teacher is collecting her full pension which was funded in the same manner as teacher's current pensions are funded.

Good question. At the first budget vote, I had decided to vote no because the increase was just too much...again...but my decision was cemented when I heard a few parents of current students who said they would vote yes because they had kids in school, but as soon as they finished, they would never vote yes again.

I believe the system has to change, and am concerned that a yes vote will never prompt those changes. Necessity is the mother of invention. My children are not yet in school, but tell me, why should I support a budget now, when others will do nothing for my kids when the time comes. You may call me selfish, as I would call those that I listened to on 5/18, but I'd rather the changes happen now. It will affect my child, who will start kindergarten in the fall, but perhaps the changes that will need to happen will be made and things will be looking up when my kids move thru the schools and the district has been forced to act more responsibly and be more accountable to this community. Perhaps they will present budgets that are more in line with the rest of the economy and people will not feel like fools for supporting them.

Is this likely, maybe not, but it is what I am hoping for, and the only reason I am considering voting no once again. I was moved by the father's comments at the meeting the other day who repeated that it is "too late". I understand what he says, but if this budget is approved, and the district has the good sense to avoid this uproar with a more reasonable budget next year, the moment will have passed, and people will not be watching when the next teacher contracts come up or when future budgets are formed, and we will find ourselves in the same situation yet again. I have lived here my whole life, and have seen this same debate repeated again and again.

You are right, comments about who are the real citizens of this town are pointless and get us no where, sorry for my comments in that vein.
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[SUVsoccerMOM]

Hey Duty Calls,

The truth hurts, doesn't it.

"OH My Gawd, the price of gas, it's ridiculous. I can't believe it. It just cost me $45 to fill up my gas tanks today. If this keeps up, I'm gonna have to go back to work".

This is what I hear all day from soccer moms in Stop-N-Shop. Meanwhile, they go into the parking lot and climb into their Ford Excusion, Hummer H2 or Chevy Tahoe and drive off to go pick up their kids at dance class and karate.

This is the typical day of a West Islip Mom. These women think they are Old Brookville Socialites and they should dictate how the rest of the community dresses, decorates their houses, how much taxes we should pay and what afterschool activities should be offered for their darling little brats.

There is a great divide in West Islip called Montauk Highway. However, some stay-at-home moms on the North side of Montauk like to pretend that they can afford to live the lifestyle of the rich and famous. Meanwhile, they are racking up the debt so fast, their husband's heads are spinning. These poor guys come home to empty houses and bare dinner tables because their wives are out BS'ing at the local supermarket about the tutu their daughter had to wear at the last dance recital. (My father would have hit the ceiling if dinner wasn't on the table when he got home. How times have changed).

Then these women have the gall to cry when their husbands leave them for a little hottie that puts out and doesn't spend money like it's going out of style.

West Islip Women: Wake up! Your living in a pretend fantasy world. It's time to get back to work and earn your keep. Get off the cell phone. Your gonna die of brain cancer and then cry "Why me?".

You may think that this has nothing to do with the school budget, but this is the underlying force that drives this issue.

[Tony B]

Quote:You may think that this has nothing to do with the school budget

At least you said one thing I can agree with!
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[dutycalls]

"My father would have hit the ceiling if dinner wasn't on the table when he got home". as said by SUVsoccerMOM.



Kinda says it all right there.

Again, consider the caliber of person telling you to votte no.

[concerned]

I wasn't aware this was a grammar contest. I was responding directly to the party who accused West Islip students of being "dumb as dirt". It seems that many of these postings are just opportunities for those with hidden agendas or personal vendettas to vent. While you are free to do so, this does not address the issues at hand. There are many women in this district who are working one or two jobs in addition to their husband's jobs, who support the budget and their school district. I have been in many classes in the last ten years and I have not yet seen anyone with rose colored glasses. Perhaps the rose colored glasses are yours. New York State continually issues unfunded mandates to school districts. Please take issue with the state. I cannot remember a year in which they have passed a budget on time and yet school districts must.

Your enemy is not the SUV driving moms (is it only moms driving those SUVs?). I have seen disrespectful children, parents and senior citizens everywhere including many in this group.

Your only valid issue is with the compensation of teachers and that will not change with the vote on any school budget.

It has already been suggested that the schools be closed thereby ridding this town of these bothersome children. What's next? Shall we get rid of the seniors as well or just the SUV moms?

To ChrisF202: Just curious, what is it that you think will make the schools better?


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[concerned2]

Thank you, "concerned" and a few others, for your voices of reason. I've attended the last few Board meetings and the Q&A meeting, and have been monitoring the dialog here as well. I am very concerned.

About the divisiveness that is evident over the budget. The mean-spiritedness and potential slander of some of these postings. The lack of reason on the part of some. Here are a few thoughts.

* The Board members were elected by US as a community. We need to show some faith and support in their abilities and integrity. This is NOT Roslyn; let's not over-react. When times were good, the Board was accepted and, as previously mentioned, re-elected unopposed. When times are difficult, we need to come together assist the Board in making decisions supported by the community. In a constructive manner. I sincerely believe that the Board members are doing the best that they can in a very difficult situation. Times are tough for many of us, but let's keep our priorities clear: our children's AND community's welfare. They go hand in hand. It's disheartening to see the hostility vented toward these members at some of these meetings.

* I wholeheartedly agree in questioning authority and expenditures, holding people accountable, offering suggestions, and verbalizing our thoughts, and the Board has been receptive---as they should be. I support trimming money from administrative expenses (decreasing attendance at conferences, mailings, possibly reducing administrative support staff, etc.), re-negotiating contracts with outside vendors if possible, re-assessing the need for some of the high-tech equipment that isn't being fully utilized or possible extras in the schools, etc. I have also been disappointed in some of West Islip's stats in recent published reports based on State exams and statistics. And I certainly don't want my taxes to increase.

HOWEVER, I don't want our educational system (and community) to falter. We NEED our teachers, para's, psychologists, and athletic and music programs. These teachers give a great deal of themselves to our children and our neighbors' children. My son is in the high school and we have been extremely fortunate with all the wonderful, caring, responsive, FIRST-rate teachers that he has had along the way. Fortunate to have the enrichment that he has been afforded with the numerous extracurricular programs that keep him so busy that he doesn't have time to get into trouble. I also have 3 relatives that are teachers in other districts and out of state, and I KNOW of the hours and money of their own that they spend in striving to be good, stimulating educators. Our children spend the majority of their waking hours at school with these teachers. They DESERVE to be paid well and supported!

* If we want:
- our children to have wholesome, monitored activities at all age and ability levels
- a school district to continue to achieve higher academic standards
- maintain our property values
I think that we need pay the relatively small price, in comparison to all that may be lost in terms of programs and staffing. To keep OUR community's youth active in wholesome, character developing activities.

* Let's give the Board the opportunity to present the revised budget in detail. I will be sure to attend the meeting on Tuesday, June 15th, 7:30 p.m. at the Beach Street auditorium, when the revised budget will be presented. Let's get the facts, pose the questions, make the suggestions, and work together to come up with the best possible plan in the situation that we are in.

[concerned]

Tony B: I thought I was done for tonight, but I felt the need to reply to your issues. In the current economic times, it is much harder to vote yes for a school budget than no. After all, we are all paying more for gas, milk, and everything remotely related. Most of us are not getting the increases in salary that we hope for. Many of us (maybe most) do not have pensions which are funded in any way other than what we fund personally. Many of us are paying higher health costs. It gets harder every day to justify paying higher school taxes for everyone, but higher costs are inevitable. Voting against the school budget does not change any contracts or the reality of higher taxes. It only changes the amount and what we as a community are willing to give up. It will not change the way contracts are negotiated. What a no vote does change, is what the school district can offer our children. One of my three children was fortunate enough to attend full day kindergarten. From personal experience and time in the classroom, I believe it is a grave disservice to any child scheduled to attend full day to cut them back to half day. This is a reality if the budget does not pass. This is only one example of what we lose with a failed budget. Consider the difference in cost between a contingent budget and a passed budget. It is approximately $.49/day if you are assessed at $45,000. Do you know that most children leave kindergarten reading? First graders are learning algebra; second graders end the year with multiplication and division. To many, this may seem unimportant because to many all they see are $$$$$. I've seen the difference in state testing for the child who started preparing for the NYS REQUIRED testing in first grade as opposed to fourth grade. This is not the school or the curriculum of our childhood. Do you know that all students are REQUIRED to take algebra, geometry and trigonometry as part of Math A starting in 8th or 9th grade? Just find out what a normal high school student needs to accomplish to graduate. The failed budget offers an eight period day instead of nine periods. Seems insignificant except to the child who needs 8 1/2 periods each year to graduate. This is reality to some children; to our children of West Islip.

I know times are hard for everyone, but this school district will be decimated if the budget does not pass. Don't vote no just to make a point. And again, I ask, those who are most opposed to passing this budget: Did you vote yes when your children were in school?

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[Patty Kakes]

National Association for the Prevention of Teacher Abuse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone, you really should check out this website
Napta:
www.endteacherabuse.org/

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[VoterTime]

Someone said;

"We NEED our teachers, para's, psychologists, and athletic and music programs."

I agree that we need a strong athletic department and that music appreciation should be taught as well as having a HS marching band.

However I have already talked to my children about psychologists and let them know that under no circumstances are they ever to talk to any school psychologists for any reason and to call us at once should one try to talk to my children. These people have no place in public education. As far as i'm concerned that's two million in salaries that can come off the top of the budget.

As for music programs, it seems to me that every 4 or 5 weeks the school is dragging us down there for a 3 hour presentation at night. I recall one such event at the Udall middle school that had that moron band teacher playing his trumpet for 20 minutes solo. GROAN! These events are self-serving teacher pep rallies and nothing more. They should be limited to 1 School Play and 1 Band Concert a year.

Vocal Motion? Considering that 27% of the kids couldn't get a Regents diploma I suggest this be terminated and replaced with some Mental Motion! None of these kids have or ever will be accepted at Julliard. Parents should be paying for their own music and dance lessons. We can trash can wind ensemble and chorus also. Music appreciation Yes, this other nonsense not on my dime.

As for Para's.... Why? Why do teachers that make exorbitant salaries with generous medical and retirement benefits NEED a paid helper? In my day they were called teachers aids and were glad to go help out for free.

As for teachers? Well... last year there seems to have been at least 14 with no permanent certification if any at all according to NYS and that doesn't include teachers teaching reading or math etc. that aren't certified in that discipline.

All in all there's entirely too much house cleaning to do before this school gets anymore money. When I was in school this country was number one in the world educationally, now we're not even in the top 20.

The top 20 countries do it with far less money so money isn't the answer!

[No1nyMOM]

Oh NY dad?

You voted yes the first time and lost,

You'll vote yes the second time and lose,

I guess that makes you a 2 Time Looser!

And with your X having thrown you out on your ear I guess that makes YOU a 3 Time Looser!

Now scurry off dear the Adults have to talk.

[charlie]

Great Web Site Patty!!

I especially liked their bumper stickers and purchased one. You know the one that said,

"Kill A Teacher And Cut The Tax Rate!"


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[charlie]

Dear Looking For Answers,

Being from the great state of New Hampshire where we have copious amounts of snow on the ground 5 months of the year and virtually no SUV's in sight I find it humorous to the extreme that Long Islanders (of which I am one for the last 10 years) are scared witless about snow!

So let me get this straight, YOU bought a SUV because in the last 10 years there were maybe 4 days with real snow on the ground??? I watch my neighbors roll out the snow blowers with 2 or 3 inches on the ground, call the kids over to the picture window and we all have a BIG chuckle!

Where I come from we're putting out lawn chairs.

Charlie Landers advice is this....

Toughen Up a tad, put snow tires on the school bus's and we can cut out all those plows spending your money running back and forth over the school parking lot at $500 an hour.

And Remember!
You're NOT a Bimbo! You're A Mombo!!!


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[charlie]

Drift with me on this while I get to the point,

The other day I was in Produce Warehouse.
There was this how shall I say... portly teenager in a WI Varsity Cheerleader jacket that was .. as far as I could tell.. talking out LOUD to herself in the middle of the isle.

Not only is she unabashedly talking out loud to herself but she's making hand gestures to articulate what ever it is she is saying, whirling around at random, pointing and poking at the air. I stopped my cart in front of the cantalope, looked back surrupticiously while trying my damndest to figure out if there was a full blown lunatic on the loose in the store!

Low and behold it came to be known that she had what can only be called a hands free cell phone around her ears!

My point is simply this.. after this Vincent Price like experience in public... It's clear that the WI Schools are turning out MORONS!!! I thought this girl needed a straight jacket!! What this Varsity Cheerleaded clearly needed was a lesson in reality (and a maybe a beeper that would have sent her an electric shock when she reached the candy isle and tried to pick up a Chunky)

But then... doesn't WI HS promote Candy & Soda Sales?
Isn't Pepsi on the Football Score Board??

Yessss My Students! We Care About You! (well we care as long as you BUY sugar laden crap and get your money) Said The Teacher To The Fly!

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[charlie]

Mmmmm....

I would have to say that spell check probably doesn't work...

After all... I read Duty Calls message and spell check should have changed it to " DOODIE Calls "

My only question is .. was he on a lap top in the crapper OR does he sit on a bed pan in front of the PC??

You be the judge.. film at 11

PS: I have a secret suspiscion that he's in cahoots with the School Bored. Where else can one find so much excrement all in one place??

PSS: Did YOU know? That the Suffolk County Health Department has a standing contract with Rotor Router to send a truck to each and every WI School Board Meeting to clean up their overflow??

STAY Tuned For MORE (wind ) Breaking News From Our Leaders In The Edu-Tainment Field over at WI High!
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[dutycalls]

I Love it!

Look at the desperate attempts by charlie and NY MOM to try and insult anyone who trys to disagree with them. The morning of June 23 is going to be a sweet one. The villans of West Islip will be sent back under their covers. Ny Mom will be gone from this board no doubt, embarressed to face the music of her mean-spirited attacks on someone who is trying to voice his opinion without being vile. Ny Mom, you really are an inappropriate woman who does not belong on a board where such an important matter is being discussed. These people don't realize that such disgusting rantings will do nothing but thin their already dwindling support. Charlie, you just have no idea what you're talking about in any sense. Two clueless dolts.

[charlie]

The Names In This Article Have Been Changed To Protect The Guilty!

A lot has been said about how caring teachers are about students. To some small degree that is probably true, after all.. every apple in the barrel can't be bad.. at least not until the ROT reaches the top.

Have you ever dropped your kids off at the HS on a warm morning and noticed that, for want of a better word, sleazy looking guy in the cheap suit standing around the gates? That guy that looks like he had his face in a bottle of Bourbon all night and has a cheap suit wearing him?

Yeah, that's the principle of this matter. The low life that makes over $160K a year, standing at the gates to the school looking like a Bowery bum. I could never figure out.. IS he just drunk OR does he just stand there, leaning against the fence, while gaggles of students blow smoke in his face? Cigarette Smoke? Pot Smoke? who knows... is he too hung over to do anything besides be present let alone care? It seems the only reason the kids are inches away from those fences are to stay out of range of the alcohol on his breath. It's certainly not out of any fear! After all... HIS duty ends at the fence. It's NOT his duty to help kids! Even though he COULD call the police and have this rabble gone in seconds. No One told him cigarettes are not for minors and pot is illegal umm? It's easier for a drunk to just lean against the fence instead of actually doing his job.

But he's a caring professional, we all know that because the school mailings tell us so. He'll stand there, one hand in the fence as he stagers the other hand flailing around as he mutters incoherently as dozens of kids give him the finger as they exhale in his face.

I often wonder if it's irony that his name is Huffman or something that sounds like that or isn't that really his name at all and it's merely the taunts of the students outside the fence taunting him while they have a fag or joint at their lips .. chanting at him, taunting.. HuffMAN!

A poor sad soul in a cheap suit that looks like he's had years worth of cow dung facials, turns, staggers and wobbles back into the school ready to face the day and show students the way!

But what kind of way is it i muse? When one lets a band teacher sodomize a student and sexually use? It seems this drunken suit isn't in for that call. Must have come after last call! The only calls he takes come from a school bored PHD who tells him in NO uncertain terms 'Don't Let That Crap' fall on me. 'It'll be YOUR Job you drunken slob!' screams the PHD. 'I Have A Budget To Pass so don't mess with me!'

Boil Boil Toil And Trouble! Keep It Quite And Our Budget We Can Double!

LEGAL Disclaimer: Any events mentioned above are purely fictional. OR are they?











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[Tony B]

Quote:the current economic times, it is much harder to vote yes for a school budget than no.

I agree...

Quote:Most of us are not getting the increases in salary that we hope for.

true again...

Quote:Many of us (maybe most) do not have pensions which are funded in any way other than what we fund personally. Many of us are paying higher health costs.

yes and a BIG yes

Quote:It gets harder every day to justify paying higher school taxes for everyone, but higher costs are inevitable

Yes...but to a point. I have lived in my house since 1997. When this budget is put in place, with even the lowest increase possible, it will bring the total increase in school taxes since I lived here to just about 60%. During that same period, inflation has risen about 16%. Higher costs are inevitable, but outrageously higher costs shouldn't be.

Quote:Voting against the school budget does not change any contracts or the reality of higher taxes. It only changes the amount and what we as a community are willing to give up. It will not change the way contracts are negotiated. What a no vote does change, is what the school district can offer our children.

Then what does approving the budget do? It may offer things to the children now, but this same crisis will only arise again later...perhaps when your kids are out of school. How will you vote then? Will you still be "concerned"? What I have heard is that many people will not, they will vote with their sense not emotion when the schools are no longer so high on their list of priorities. A yes vote will not force the district to change the way contracts are negotiated, it will not force them to become more fiscally responsible. This is my quandary. I don't want your kids to suffer, and even more so, I don't want my kids to suffer, but they will. If not now, 2 or 5 years from now, unless this district (and probably most here on LI) change how they operate.

Lastly, you wrote...

Quote:Don't vote no just to make a point.

That is not my intention. I would ask you not to vote yes just because it is best for now. You point out the selfishness of some who may have voted yes when they had kids in school, but now feel differently, don't you vote yes for selfish reasons either. The fiscal behavior of this district is setting it on a path to trouble. Approving budgets out of fear may delay this boil over for a while, but it will still come. Perhaps your yes vote will help your kids, and I fully understand that should be your top priority, but my kids will be in this school system until 2019!!!, so I am as or more worried about the future as I am about today. In my mind, the time for things to change may be now.

I appreciate your thoughts, and to be honest, I don't know what is right any more...and probably won't until I actually go vote.
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[charlie]

PAY Attention:

I didn't TRY to insult you.

I DID Insult you!

But I really can't take credit after all.. I was just piling on after your insulted yourself!

Now have the good sense to know when you've been insulted and act like a man instead of a whiney little brat with no literary skills.

Ok Doodie Head?
lol
________
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[dutycalls]

Charlie, I love it!

I have shown your insulting posts to over 30 people today, and we have had a good laugh about it.

There were even some people on the fence deciding whether to vote yes or no who saw your clueless, inarticulate posts, and decided to vote YES!

Keep it up, the more hatred and stupidity you spew, the more people see the crap that is advocating the NO vote. The villians of this community.

Let's send ol' Charlie to bed early, VOTE YES!

[mundi]

As someone who is going to vote no, I am thouroughly distressed by the caliberer of the people that are representing the no vote. Charlie, NYMom, and soccersuv do not represent the typical person who is voting no. These three are sorry, silly wackos who do not represent me. Also, Tony B, No One cares about your "Delimma" about what to do. Vote no, vote yes, WHO CARES! I dont wanna pay no more taxes, so I don't care what you say. We are going to lose this war if better people don't step up.

[wi rep]

Nevermind whether they are voting yes or no, I'm disturbed that these people are "adults" and live amongst us. I think 3rd graders would handle this whole situation better. I've been sitting on the sidelines reading all of these posts both pro and con, but this childish stuff should stop.
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og kush pictures (http://trichomes.org/marijuana-strains/og-kush)

[BigWhite1]

First- Charlie... Your a pissa! I enjoy your witty bantar. Second- TonyB... You are worse than a washwoman! With your qoutes and insipid anecdotes. Who gives a rats ass how you vote. Your so wishy washy, It makes me wanna do a Father Damien out the window. As for all you Yenta's and Pro budget zealots...lighten up! Stop taking yourselves so serious...the hard working members of this Community (who you expect to foot the Bill) don't take you serious at all. Ps. Oh Yea! I almost forgot...VOTE NO!!!
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FERRARI INTER HISTORY (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Ferrari_Inter)

[Tony B]

It takes a special brand of stupid to criticize people for discussing things at a discussion board. Nice to know I share my community with such clear thinkers.
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Portable Vaporizer (http://vaporizer.org/portable)

[No1dadNY]

Don't worry Tony B, there are still people in the community who know how to have a civilized conversation without spewing hatred, lies, and slander. While we may not see eye to eye, I appreciate and respect your opinion, and look forward to discussing the points in a civilized fashion.

Take a look at where all of the insults and lies are coming from: The No voters. These people are actually dissing one of their own just because he is actually..umm..THINKING about what he is doing!!!

Vote YES!
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White Widow Seeds (http://marijuanaseeds.org/)

[Student12]

I have read this thread from the beginning
Correct me if I'M wrong....if the budget is voted down and the district is put on austerity, won't the distirct be eligble to increase last years budget by about 2.5% and increase mandated funds by actual dollar for dollar increase.
If this is true how can the district tell us that they cannot operate at the same or slightly lower level than last year.
What kind of administrators do we actually have working for us?
These " Proffesional administrators" who, useing smoke and mirrors, put together these "exact" budget numbers to be put out for public information.
They expect us to believe them as gospel.
Yet when they list the many line items that MAY (NOTE THEY USE THE TERM "MAY") Be eliminated they unable to put a dollar amount to each line item seperately.
These administrators should, since they claim to know how much money they will be operating on under an austerity budget, be required to tell us exactly what line items (sports,music,etc.) will be eliminated NOW!
Which willl it be, the teacher items (contract & benifits),student items (sports, band,etc. ) which special intrest group are you going to offend?
Or is too much information not a good thing?

With regard to any vote not sending a message, regardless of it being yes or no.
you could not be more wrong.

A yes vote will embolden the schools unions to aggresively negotiate more costly contracts.
The labor mediators who resolve future contract negotiations will look at a yes vote as a communities willingness and ability to sustain salary and benifit increases.

I submitt to you that while a no vote may be in the short term a bad thing for the school district, in the long term it might actually put the brakes on teachers salary increases( the exact thing every one says the school budget has no effect on) .
West Islip might start a trend where negotiation mediators (in all levels of government) recognize the community is taxed beyond the residents ability to pay.
Maybe we could freeze or cap top salaries for a couple of years and get the top paid teachers to retire.
Salaries should also be pegged to supply and demand, as far as I know there is a vast pool of certified teachers (unfortunately they don't have connections) who would give anything to teach in our district.

And to the teachers who continuely whine to the students (during class periods) about there burdens, I suggest that you get some real courage, act like a real union and go on strike.
You would'nt dare because you know the Taylor law would fine you 2 days gross wages for eveyday you strike. Actually 3 days pay( 1 day not worked, plus 2 days fined.
The truth is, sadly, that teaching has become more about the money than the actual job.

My Vote will send a message!

[No1nyMOM]

If you are as your nick implys indeed a student in the HS, I applaud your grasp of the situation. (and even if you're not )

The only small point that you are mistaken on is what kind of budget will be adopted with another No vote.

It's not a 'Austerity' budget but a 'Contingency' budget.

The difference is a subtle and disingenuous attempt to mislead the taxpayers.

When one says Austerity.. it conjures up visions of crumbling school buildings, riots, dispair, foreboding and the inner city.

Some people dont want to say Contingency because all that means is... Ok... the budget will still go up but instead of eating steaks 7 days a week we'll have to throw in a couple of pork chops.

And it is exactly that arrogance displayed by such organizations as the PTA and WITA (west islip teachers association) that assumes that the average person in this town can not distinguish the difference that enrages the home owners in this community.

[No1nyMOM]

I've noticed that several people have said that they have homes assessed at under $45K in west islip.

I really really really REALLY want to know what part of town you live in. I mean it's not south of Montauk. I have one of the crappiest house in WI and it's assessed at almost 200K. SO.. where EXACTLY are these homes assessed at these values?

Im sure everyone would be interested. We don't want your home address... but how about giving us like a 10 block radius or something like that so we can all drive by and actually SEE where a home, in a community that has a median Assessment of over $250K has a house still assessed at 1946 levels?

My gripe isn't with your tax assessment, it's with a number that I firmly believe is fictious and used solely to mislead.

[taxedup]

You are confusing two different value concepts. You are referring to the appraised value of your house, if for example you were selling or refinancing.
The other value you've heard about is an "Ad Valorem" value used ONLY for the purposes of property taxation. Many municipalities use many different formulas to calculate property taxes. Its confusing because we have some of the more enigmatic formulas in the country. In Arizona, for example, taxes are calculated at a flat 1%.
Hope this helps.

[taxedup]

A little long winded, but so are the laws...

www.bethllamas.com/State%...0guide.htm

[Taxusall]

Your property taxes (school,town, county etc) are all based on an "assesed value"of your home that is stated on your tax bill. It's not the dollar value your house could sell for. The average home in West Islip is Assesed at $45,000. Some are higher some are lower. But the average home Taxes are based on this $45,000. Your taxes could even be lower when you have the "Star Exemption" Call the Town of Islip Tax Receiver, Virginia Allen at 631-224-5580 and Get the facts!

[Tony B]

I think you are confusing these two terms. I can assure you that there is no house in this town assessed at $200,000, while these days, I'll bet there are none appraised at less than $200,000. If you pull out your tax bill or statement of taxes there is a "land assessment" and "total assessment" value right on there.

My house is an average home and mine says $39,000.
________
Water bongs (http://glassbongs.org/)

[kiadi]

Don't even try and explain the facts to an idiot like NYmom. She is not interested in the facts. She only wants to spew hatred and propaganda around while her children cry helplessly for supervision in the background. A truly vile human being. Do you actually think for a moment that she could understand the difference between assessed and appraised real estate value?

[No1nyMOM]

Well that's interesting!

I just got off of the phone 224-5580 over at the tax office and low and behold! Guess what?

A: You're NOT going to get ahold of Virgina Allen

B: That Office keeps NO records as far as what IS or Isn't an Average assessment for the town of W. Islip. (According to her spokesperson)

C: When asked .. I'm calling about a School Board Mailing that states the average house in west islip is assessed at 45K and I'm trying to determine what the AVARAGE assessment for a home in west islip really is they replied " We don't have information like that AND if you were told that you should ask the School Board where they got their information."

And that's my point since day one!

The SCHOOL Board uses a random figure (45K) and prints next to it your taxes are only going up 49 cents a day LEAVING the taxpayer to do the math when THEY know FULL WELL that the average assessement of a home in west islip is about as close to 45K as NYDad is to getting laid!

Someone issued the challange, I called the number!
You call it too!
Don't take my word for it!

[No1nyMOM]

Duh!

Lets see kaidi....

I look at my TAX bill...

It Says... Assessed At

Apparently the only TAX bill you ever got was attached to a reciept for a slice of pizza!

Tooda Loo Darling

[jillian1]

Someone issued the challange

Luch

Boy oh boy, MyMOM should spend less time arguing her sour and baseless points and more time in a remidial spelling class. High five Nydad and KIadi. That woman is appalling. Low-class trailer-trash. I just called the number, and got an superb explanation on the difference of assessed and appraised value, and while I did not talk to Mrs. Allen, the rep told me that the average value is INDEED 45,000 as was said earlier. What a DOOFUS.

[451mot]

MYMOM, PLEASE LEAVE THIS BOARD! You are the most annoying person I have ever READ in my life. You Suck!

[Stident12]

It is amazing how the issues I tried to discuss in my previous post have not stimulated any real dialouge.
But rather created a lot of nonsense.
I believe that is specificaly the point of the follow up posters. Intentionally divert you away from the real budget issues.

Instead of the school administrators haveing to make the hard decisions on which items are to be eliminated, by an austerity(There words)/contigency budget, I suggest that we let the voters make the choice.

Add to the voting machines additional lines under the entire resubmitted budget vote.
These lines could be headed with a preface:
"If contingency budget is adopted which of the following eliminated programs would you approve for additional funding?"
Then list individualy each of the threatened to be eliminated programs, with each of there cost.
Each of these items could be voted seperately from the entire budget and themselves.

This way the budget vote would not be entirely Take it or leave it.

Why do the Administrators not want us to question there tactics? It's simple, their entire basis for their salary and benifits is based on the increase the Teachers negotiate, not their preformance.

Let's have some honest clean to the point dialouge on this important issue.

[Homer]

If you want to know where the money goes check the fat wallets of the administrators.They give them selves raises & bonuses,and the board always approves.
The super intendant of buildings & grounds,makes a bundle plus appoints super chiefs to take work off of him.Make more money do less work that must be the way to go.

[studentschool]

I just found this website today, and I have to say that I am a bit shocked about some of the posts I have been reading. First of all, No1NYmom, you seem to be oblivious to all forms of common sense. For your last post you said how the school is calling the new budget an austerity budget over a contingency budget, I've never seen that. I am looking at the flyer they mailed home, and I am looking at the school boards website right now, and I don't see anything that says austerity. Also, being a student at the high school, I am worried that this budget will not pass. I am not sure if everybody knows of how much will be cut, so I am going to post it

Jazz A and Jazz Q (Which I am in both)
Vocalmotion
Marching Lions band (Which I am in, and which many of you have seen if you were at the memorial day parade)
Wind Ensemble Marching band (Which I am in, and was also at the parade)
Color guard
Brass Ensemble (Which I am in)
Flute choir
Clarinet Choir
Chamber music night(Which I am in)
District Jazz Night (My favorite concert which I am in)
Childrens theater
All of the plays and musicals (Which I am in)
Pit orchestra
Mathletes
School Web site
Lion's pride
Middle school sports
JV and 9th grade sports
The school will have an 8 period day, causing the loss of many electives (including ones I am in)
29 paraprofessionals
Full day kindergarten
Middle school plays
6th and 7th grade foreign language
Middle school student senate
Middle school Mathletes
Middle school websites
Literary Magazines and Newspapers
57 teaching positions

Now I write this not to show what things that I am in, I write this, to show you that you're not just dealing with numbers and salaries, your dealing with people, teachers and students alike. And I know that if this budget does not pass, I won't know what to do with myself, and niether will hundreds of other students. I know that my life will be a living hell, and I encourage everyone to vote yes.

[Student12]

Why is it that the budget flyer lists all those things to be cut,as you have correctly listed, with MAY BE ELIMINATED not WILL BE?

Because they Have succeded in haveing you a student and probabley your parents believe they will actually all be cut.

The students who are again being played like pawns by the school board, administration and teachers union should stand up to them and ask the hard question
"Why Can't they make do with a contingency budget, that will reflect a small increase over last years budget plus include actual dollar for dollar increases for mandated programs, work it without hurting the students?"

I tell you that a movement from the students too hold the school administration accountable to a higher level of conduct and true concern for the children would result in their dealing with the taxpayer/budget issue in a more successful way

An Awesome Lesson of activisim for the students, take control of our future we too will be taxpayers.

This is certainly better than bashing each other.
Don't degrade the character, let's fix the problem.

[kitster]

being a student at the high school, I am worried that this budget will not pass. I am not sure if everybody knows of how much will be cut, so I am going to post it

Jazz A and Jazz Q (Which I am in both)
Vocalmotion
Marching Lions band (Which I am in, and which many of you have seen if you were at the memorial day parade)
Wind Ensemble Marching band (Which I am in, and was also at the parade)
Color guard
Brass Ensemble (Which I am in)
Flute choir
Clarinet Choir
Chamber music night(Which I am in)
District Jazz Night (My favorite concert which I am in)
Childrens theater
All of the plays and musicals (Which I am in)
Pit orchestra
Mathletes
School Web site
Lion's pride
Middle school sports
JV and 9th grade sports
The school will have an 8 period day, causing the loss of many electives (including ones I am in)
29 paraprofessionals
Full day kindergarten
Middle school plays
6th and 7th grade foreign language
Middle school student senate
Middle school Mathletes
Middle school websites
Literary Magazines and Newspapers
57 teaching positions

While the preceding was some list of programs and instructional content, the average person on this board could care less about these things. They are worried about themselves, and no-one else. Selfish, uncaring attitudes that will hopefully not prevent the students in West Islip from getting all that they deserve.

VOTE YES!

[studentschool]

"Why Can't they make do with a contingency budget, that will reflect a small increase over last years budget plus include actual dollar for dollar increases for mandated programs, work it without hurting the students?"

I'm not positive about this, but I think that the reason that the contingency budget cannot be modified is because it is state mandated, and is not controlled by the district itself, therefore, the school can't do anything to it, like add the use of reserves for certian programs, as done in the modified budget. Because it was not voted on, nothing can be changed. And its possible that we may be looking at two diffrent flyers, but the one I'm looking at says on the top
"Below are the programs that will be cut if the budget doesn't get passed on June 22nd."

[concerned]

There seem to be a lot of people out there who seem to think they know everything about the budget process and how the public is being kept in the dark about how money is spent. I am curious how many of these "know it alls" have ever been to a budget planning session, a budget hearing or any kind of board meeting. Have you ever read the budget newsletter that comes home in the mail to every resident? There are many opportunities for the public to get more info, but unfortunately, very few are interested until it is time to vote.

Tony B - I never replied to your message to not vote yes just because I can. I voted based on the information that I made a point of going out and getting. I talked to board members, the superintendent, teachers, paras, other people in the community. I have been to budget planning sessions, board meetings, etc. I do know directly how the passage or failure of this budget will affect our children and our community. I also know that these "threats of cuts" are reality. We can no more change the salary or contract of a teacher than we can change the salary of any other union member be it a police officer, fireman, etc. We can be involved in the process at the time a contract is being negotiated by getting the facts and expressing our opinions at that time. Talking about how much money a teacher makes now will not change this budget. Let's also keep in mind that you get what you pay for. Research what the other surrounding districts pay their teachers and if you are truly interested in the facts, you will find that our teachers are among the lowest paid! Do you want someone getting bottom dollar teaching your child??? I don't! I want the most qualified person possible. I have heard of teachers offered positions in this district who have actually laughed at the salary. There are many people who work at jobs that I think make too much money for what I think they do, but we don't get to vote on anyone's salary but a teacher's in theory. And that I think is the bottom line. Everyone wants more money in their pocket and there's nothing wrong with that, but you get what you pay for.
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TOYOTA SUPRA (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_Supra)

[bugman12]

get facts Edited by: bugman12 at: 6/14/04 9:41 pm

[Tony B]

To Concerned, I never meant to imply your decision was based on poor information, I didn't think that and apologize if that is how it came across. I think a lot of people...well...some people have given this a lot of thought yet still remain on opposite sides of the fence.

You ask..."Do you want someone getting bottom dollar teaching your child??? I don't! I want the most qualified person possible."...while the salaries in this district may be lower than others, there are a lot of factors that come into play. At the Q&A meeting the other night the superintendent referred to a high number of younger teachers. These teachers will take a while to work up to a higher salary, so if there has been a high number or retirements in recent years, the average will undoubtedly be lower. Does this mean the quality is lower? I don't think that is necessarily true. I don't know about you, but thinking back to my student days, my best teachers were not always the older ones, who were probably drawing the best pay. What I am saying is that low pay doesn't mean bad teacher any more than high pay means good teacher. I also don't think an average salary that is the equal to about $77,000 for a full year is "bottom dollar". That amount is about equal to the average FAMILY income, not individual income, here in WI. Do teachers deserve good pay... sure, but lets not pretend they are getting poor doing their jobs.
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Csi: ny forum (http://www.tv-gossip.com/csi-ny/)

[AdrienneEss]

As a home owner in WI I am voting YES on this budget and I strongly urge everyone else to do the same. If all these programs are cut, who would want to send their children to school here?? Penny wise, pound foolish! I have a third grader who *loves* sports! I want her to have the best of everything. I'll consider moving if this budget isn't passed. And what sort of people will be buying our homes once we go..? I'm voting YES. For our kids, for the future of our community.

[AndySophie]

What have we become, a society that only cares about an extra couple of hundred dollars in our pockets? My God, most of us have owned homes for decades and have seen our home values appreciate hundreds of thousands of dollars. Can we not spare a few extra hundred dolars per year to properly educate our children and grandchildren? What about giving back to the community? I am one proud homeowner who plans to support this school district and VOTE YES for our children. VOTE YES for the budget.

[gadfly]

As a Long time resident of West Islip and very involved in the community. Let me say that Money matters,are a concern no doubt about it,without more,the chance of sustained progress for Long Island's schools is slim.But if they don't first take steps that cost little,a large infusion of money might be wasted.Basically do more for less.One solution would to CAP salaries..get back to basics.Key among these strictly and consistently enforced codes of behavior for students and teaches,always make the Schools safe,orderly and clean places for study,student sloppiness,incivility and tardiness,much less violence and truancy,cannot be tolerated.Neither can teacher absenteeism,Nor school board members meddling ,such as forcing administrators to hire friends and family members.this is well documented abuse in many school districts.This being said in my opinion West Islip has languished at the top of the Island's achievement spending ladder for years.Yes this has help raise real estate values beyond those of surrounding areas.These facts are all great. No doubt,a consensus in the community that has successful schools are worth the cost and effort.Thats one argument, well what about the former President of the Teachers Union "Rumor"being hired into a high paying Administration job.This may not be a reason to vote No, but this give many people concern when theses deals occur.And what about the big bucks from Albany is West Islip getting it's fair share.Our Schools need real reform before more is spent.Our School board should enact a Conference Committee to consider budget reform.This Committee after setting Guidelines/amendments for the School Board to follow would review compliance and if found to be in non- compliance the Committee would have the power to establish a contingency budget,to take effect whenever the School Board fails to reduce the spending and go above the spending caps, set by the committee.An Amendment to the bylaws of the School District would include a key provision in the creation of an independent budget review office,to come up with agreed-upon revenue projections and perform other cost saving services. I understand mandates so don't go there.Our Law Makers can in act a Mandate faster then an on time State Budget and administrators have to deal with compliance with no money support the mandates.Everybody wants and nobody wants to give back.Well the hard facts are we all have to suffer the high cost of living when we are the 72% highest Taxed residents in the Nation.Why is it our State Law makers are not looking to cut the user fees we know as Tax.
Unless there is reform in our School District I can't Vote Yes on 6/22/04.
________
Zoloft pregnancy (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/zoloft/)

[CLARK KENT]

"Gadfly" Your right this School District needs reform,anybody who has had dealings with this District knows, that there goal is to cover up any and all negatives.Are they doing this for the kids or are they protecting there collective butts.These School administrators are out of control.I could site many instances but what purpose would that serve.I think what you propose as a solution to safeguarding our money in the formation of a Budget Review Office is sound. I also like you suggestion of a community advocate.e all work very hard for our money and no matter if your Votting YES or NO we need Oversite this should be the Norm not the exception.

[silent observer]

I I have been following this post board trying to get info from both sides. I, like TONYB would love to vote yes, but there still seem to be many unanswered questions.

TONYB - I find you to be a well spoken intelligent man. You have expressed my concerns in a way I have not been able to. As far I can see your questions have been replied to with everything but answers. I am very curious to know where you stand at this point. I find it respectable that you are not here to bash teachers or anyone else for that matter, but simply to get some answers. I think we as a community should come together and form our own "union" with TONYB as our spokesman!!

As TONYB has stated the numbers just don't add up.

As far as this Kindergarten issue. I find it ridiculous. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the district receive grants based on the percentage of passing grades for these new state mandated tests?? These children will NOT be prepared enough to take these tests in the 3rd grade. Isn't this in a sense, "biting the hand that feeds us". Not to mention I hear that "full day Kindergarten will be state mandated for the 2005 school year. Seems to me that cutting Kindergarten is more likely to hurt the district rather then help.


I understand that there is nothing we can do about the teachers salaries/benefits until the next contract negotiations, however, don't you think they will be less opt to negotiate all these extravagent benefits it they see the community coming together to end these irratic spending patterns.

Unfortunately, unless someone could clarify, I feel I must vote No again. I understand that my children along with others may lose out for a year or two, but on a long term analysis I think it is wise to stop this madness now. If we approve this budget, we will only have to fight it later. Why wait.

[Nan]

The West Islip School District is concerned that community members are not receiving accurate information.
For correct and precise information about the school district and its proposed budget, please see the district website at www.westislip.k12.ny.us
If your concerns or questions are not addressed on the district website, please call the following numbers:
Superintendent of Schools Dr. Beth Blau, 893-3200, ext. 334
Asst. Superintendent for Business Joan Niles, 893-3200, ext. 320
The Community Relations Office, 893-3200, ext. 371.

[charlie]

You just gotta love some of the people here.

Not only has doodiecall made me a representive of people voteing No he's apparently spent his weekend printing out copies of my posts and running around town showing them off.

Jeee.. This weekend I had a T-Bone and a tall bottle of cold ale and then did the Mick Jagger Rooster Walk behind my honey on over into the bedroom. I think Doodie needs to get 'Regular' (and a life

Then we have some new flame throwers. Apparently they are SO flustered their minds don't know what their fingers are doing.

Example: Jillian1

"...should spend less time arguing... and more time in a remidial spelling class."

It would really be "Remedial' of me to point out someones misspellings with misspellings. Cases like hers make me want to vote yes because she clearly is a candidate to be held back a grade.

Then we have the HS student with an identity crisis!
IE: kitster & studentschool

DID you see the list of electives she's in??
I can see why she's in 'Wind' ensemble!
I'd wager she's the girl in the Marching Band beating her own drum! You know the one that marched by and had the "Wide Load" sign on her rear end. Someone should tell her that her short bald headed daddy should get her some music lessons so next year the Marching Band won't be cut out of the big parade in NYC because the TV stations didn't have a WIDE Angle Lense that Wide!

There's a reason why 16 year olds aren't allowed to vote.
It's the same reason we keep dogs on a collar, they just don't have the brain power.

I don't think a yes vote or ANY amount of money is going to help these 3 1/2 low IQ kids.

PS: Oh Doodie Call? If you have any out of state friends that you'd like to show my posts to and can't afford gas money? I'll do you a favor. Bend Over And I'll Drive You To Jersey!
________
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[Tony]

Nan,
Where do we get information on the teacher under investigation for sexual misconduct?

[mom concerned]

There isn't a teacher under investigation, it was all rumors....people should really grow up and get all of the facts. Like all of the facts about the budget. Vote Yes!

[Skippy The Punk]

Gadfly" You go guy all of these crackers think that Voting Yes is going to change things in this Town.Stupid,Stupid,Stupid,These are educated people.What do you think we are all made with a number to pencil.Do you all know the saying you can't fight City Hall?BUT YOU CAN BURN IT DOWN!!!!!!
vote NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!HEY how many people know that members of the School Board came out against the Fire Department Bond and now it is OK for the School to pull the pants of the public down around there ankles.NO,NO,NO,VOTE NO!!!!!6/22/04 The Nerve of these people.....Everybody thinks it's about the Kid's well if you can't afford to live in this Town after the School gets done fleecing us where do we go where do we live? Stop the madness...........Vote NO

[charlie]

Dear AdriensESS;

Maybe you could help me out because i'm confused.

You Said: "I have a third grader who *loves* sports!"

What school sports are you speaking of?? Maybe the sport of crapping in her pants I don't think taxpayers should be paying for that. Third graders in sports? That's a laugh!

You Said: "I'll consider moving if this budget isn't passed."

Yeah Right! If YOU could afford to live in West Hampton, you'd already be there!

THEN You Said: "And what sort of people will be buying our homes once we go..?"

Well IF you're selling your home? Who the hell do YOU care is buying your hovel as long as you get your price?

But SINCE you asked i'll tell you! (what the school bored won't!) Any 6 Figure Yuppie that works in the NYC that wants to live in a White Community only 40 Miles from ground Zero!

AND... since you're moving.. it's NOT YOUR community anymore!

You're threatening to move?
Let ME help you pack the truck!

Biya!
________
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[Tony]

What do you mean it was all rumor?

A friend of mine is a retired NY City Cop that lives here and has kids in the school system and assures me that there is a teacher under investigation for sexually molesting a student.

This is being covered up until after the budget vote in my opinion!

[AdrienneEss]

I don't wish to move. I wish to stay in my home with my family, where we belong. And have a decent school for our children. You caught me. All the programs that will be cut will make this system laughable.

[AdrienneEss]

Worth posting over and over again.
VOTE YES OR WE LOSE

57 TEACHERS
Jazz A and Jazz Q
Vocalmotion
Marching Lions band
Wind Ensemble Marching band
Color guard
Brass Ensemble
Flute choir
Clarinet Choir
Chamber music night
District Jazz Night
Childrens theater
All of the plays and musicals
Pit orchestra
Mathletes
School Web site
Lion's pride
Middle school sports
JV and 9th grade sports
The school will have an 8 period day, causing the loss of many electives
29 paraprofessionals
Full day kindergarten
Middle school plays
6th and 7th grade foreign language
Middle school student senate
Middle school Mathletes
Middle school websites
Literary Magazines and Newspapers

That's it from me. I won't post again, arguing with some Charlie Cheapo guy or anyone else for that matter. I just am simply making a plea for people to do the right thing. I believe everyone knows what the right thing is, whether or not you intend to do it. It IS for the sake of the children that we vote YES on the budget.

God bless.

[studentschool]

It was all a rumor. I go to the school, I know the teacher, and I'm positive that it was all a rumor started by some kids.

[concernedstudents]

im a concerned student here at the high school, and would like to get my opinion out there that if any of you voters out there have any children or grandchildren who are in grades K-12, you should be worried. when your child/grandchild is going to be a highschooler, they won't have as many opportunities as i did for my 2 years at teh high school. i have 2 more years to go, and i dont want everything going down the drains. if the school cancels all afterschool activities, there will be basically nothing for students to put on their college resumes which set them apart from the others.

i am also deeply involved in the music program here at the highschool. without marching band, west islip'd memorial day parades will not be the same. not nearly as many people will come out and support the parade without it. our marching band won honorable mention in NYC's columbus day parade, also. this is a big accomplishment to suddenly lose.

Also, west islip i such a good community, and that's the reason why most people work here. they move here for the great school district. and the taxes that you adults pay all go to the school and towards the best education we could get. if our budget fails, i assure you people will move because of the lack of opportunities in our school district. this impact will strike really hard on the high school overall. im sure many of you have neighbors, friends of the family, or relatives who have kids in our school district, and you wouldn't want them to miss out on getting the best education they could get.

I could go on forever, and i speak for many students when i say this. so i hope you take our opinions into consideration when i say this. thank you.

[Marc HS Senior]

There are some people in my school that have used this fourm and made a mockery of this subject. Most of us seniors know who is doing this and why it is being done.

It is obvious to anyone that reads some recent messages that an element of the Music Department, instigated by their Teachers, has put some of their students up to flooding this debate with fictitious entrys.

It's common knowledge amongst us seniors that those in charge of the Cheerleaders and the Music Department are actively encouraging students in their classes to go out into the community and lobby for a yes vote at any cost. Some of the more recent posts here actually came from school computers.

One person who has been posting here about her involvement in the band (using three different names) doesn't even live in Suffolk County and my peers and I feel that not only should she be removed from the school but the Teachers and Administrators that are actively hiding this information from the public should be removed as well. One of her sophomore confederates, with well known inappropriate appetites and desires can be seen posting from school computers in the middle of and adding to to triade.

Good government requires the highest level of honesty and integrity. The Class of 2004 strongly admonishes the Administration for allowing the Music Department and the Cheerleader Coaches for encouraging their students to go into the community and spread this mis-information. We admonish the head of the Computer Department for allowing these students unsupervised access to the internet.

If it continues the Senior Class WILL begin to name names, both of the students that have no right to be in our school and the Teachers that have direct knowledge and are willfully withholding this information from the public.

If the Administration refuses to come clean about the HS Teacher that molested a student we WILL make it known to the public. If they continue to deny what happened we will hang banners from every school marque and lampost in an act of civil disobiedience to insure that none of the underclassmen will ever be molested again while those in charge stand idly by.

We choose to graduate with Integrity and Honesty and will not be silenced!

Seniors For Truth!

[ChrisF202]

Thank god, someone finally stated the truth about the messed up school I attend. My parents seem to think that the school can do no wrong. I hope the truth comes out, and soon. Last week, I saw one of the business teachers on this forum in the library (how ironic, isent business one of the courses they are getting rid of?) Please inform us of the name of the teacher and the details of the investigation, such as why he is still a teacher at my school and not in the Suffolk County Jail.
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[gadfly]

There is nothing but cover-ups at these School's (Rumor) how many time's have we heard that.Plausible denial is the policy of this School system.The fix is always in concerning the Budget Vote how many times have.
I have seen teaches slapping each other on the back remarking about how easy it is to scare a (yes Vote) out of the parents.Roslyn Look what happen when they allowed Gluckin to retire .Roslyn Never Investigated the whole matter.How many times has this happen with other issues.The kids do deserve the best only if we can afford it.Our schools have been mismanaged, the kids suffer as a result.They (WISD)think we are very stupid. I kid you not! How does it feel having a group of people scamming you out of your hard earned money.
They count on the fact that we are all busy working two Job's to pay bills.I had to adjust my life style to keep within my budget.I know for a fact that members of the PTA are renters and they don't own a home in this town.They tell how they went to this meeting with this Suffolk County /state politician(s) how great it is for residents dictating the cost of living in this Town who don't pay taxes.Somebody stop the madness before there is an all out street fight and as a result certain politicians will be in the middle of this fight. One is at the end of her term limit but does have a political future.The State Politician needs to wake up this is a very honest politician and just a great guy but this School Board needs to understand the nature of the concerns of the Tax paying public.Vote No!!!!!!!!!
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[gadfly]

When I posted about children going to school who are not residents I'm sure alot of people assumed that I didn't know what I was talking about,well you know the truth and so do others.This is just not right how can the WIUFSD allow this to occur.I also think people who don't pay taxes have some nerve trying to tell me or others who do, how we should spend our money.This is just wrong.So let's see our School believes in free rides at our expense,cover-ups,out of control spending,using the students for there own agenda's using school resources ,These are the lessons that they teach our students.The ugly American is being produced out of the West Islip School System.
Our youth is being corrupted before they experience life.
This is the seedy side of our Public school system in West Islip.
I get to pay for this, as do others.I guess the West Islip Student fool the Public SQD will be banging out some more opinion soon.....on school computers .The only opinion that counts in this thread is the Tax payer so all others post away but again this doesn't count.The person living in a house may not own that house they might be renting.Yes the real owner is paying the taxes I understand all of that they could have 20 kids going to school and it's one price pays all.Well good look Kid keep up the good work.A grateful Tax payer
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[ChrisF202]

Out of curiosity, when you say out of town, do you mean from like downtown Bay Shore or Suffolk Avenue in Brentwood or do you mean kids from say up where Higbie ends and the Bay Shore Road area? I have a friend up there who told me that he technically lives in Brentwood but that his road is part of the WI School District. The vote is next Monday, vote no, keep the money from their wallets. I bet ill start hearing them whine again during the finals today
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[new user]

I just bought a house here in west islip about a year ago and while looking for some info came across this site.

I have kids in the school and although i'm for strong education I was honestly stunned that the district is asking for a double digit tax hike. My wife and I went through both of the schools that our kids are in and they looked fine to us.

What has concerned me though is an incident that occured recently. I was over by that stop & shop center and was approached by several cheerleaders in uniform handing out vote yes leaflets. I took it and asked if she was old enough to vote, she giggled and said NO and they moved on.

I don't know who put these kids up to it, but it's obvious that some teacher must have been behind it. There was an article in Newsday not too long ago where the teachers over at Huntington is it? got caught doing the same thing. Using kids, that aren't even old enough to vote to promote their agenda. This is a big black eye for the school system as far as i'm concerned.

My wife and I did call over to the school about this but every time we called we got put on hold or we were told the person to speak to was out. We were actually told it would be better to go to the school meeting to get answers.

We both work two jobs and don't have time to go to all of these meetings and to be honest we are a little steamed that when the school sends home a mailing about the budget and it says if you have questions please call, we expect to get some answers when we do call.

I'm beginning to think we made a big mistake moving here. Two years ago before we moved here our school district had their budget voted down twice. They sent out the same kind of mailings saying that all of these programs are going to be cut, the same as here. What happened though was the budget was defeated and essentially nothing got cut. It was all hype.

At this point it's safe to say there will be two more no votes going into the ballot box.

[gadfly]

Yes this is true, boundaries suggest ,Mailing District Bayshore, West Islip School,West Islip Fire District. This does in fact occur.But people at my Bus Stop Live Outside of the County.One Nassau County,West Hampton,Babylon Town.What happens the people who are providing day care who also rent a resident, register the kids at the resident that provides daycare while they work.I am blown away at the deception of these people.They pull up in there cars drop the kids off.This would be Westbrook School these kids are being bused .One woman said this is on her way to work and it is so nice to send my kid to West Islip.These people have no sense of consequence .The average person would not believe any of this. I wouldn't blame them.But is happening and like it was stated the School District knows about them.I call about this twice and to date the same people are still enrolled.OK they correct this.I understand that this would be a huge job to stop this abuse.But when they know and don't do anything about it that wrong.What do you need to register a Kid anyway?
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[charlie]

Did you see that post by concerned?

"Do YOU want someone making bottom dollar... You get what you pay for.." rant??

So.. according to YOUR logic concerned.... Todays teachers must be holding back on purpose!

If a new teacher comes into the school system at $35 grand.. She's REALLY not teaching your kid everything because... You Get What You Pay For! She's only teaching you $35 Grand worth.

She know's she's worth $65 Grand but you aint getting it out of her till she gets a raise!

So I agree with you.. we get what we pay for AND we're paying for a bunch of selfserving money hungry egotists that have a strong union that are happy to give the taxpayers the finger!

But they don't give you the full finger.. just the first knuckle (until they get their $65 Grand)

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[Skippy The Punk]

Vote No!!!!!!!!!!!!!On 6/22/04 Save our Homes.......Vote NO

[gadfly]

"Hello" Is anybody out their.I think all the Yes Voters have left the building.Or marching in the School Band..
You have to wonder if this School really thinks the Tax paying residents are stupid.Most of the resident are wise to the semantics of this School system. We will not be fooled again.Vote NO!
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[MyKidsAreWorthIt]

I think we should focus on the budget and not cast jealous remarks at each other. So what if people drive SUVs? That's their choice... you don't like SUVs, don't drive one. And to be so offended by these women bringing their children around that you HOPE their husbands leave them? Puh-lease... how cruel is that?
The real issue is the children and their future. Let's focus on that and not name-call, shall we?

[studentschool]

I would just like to out out that i am a diffrent than kitster, and maybe charlie, you should think that she just copied and pasted what I wrote. And for most people realding these forums who just want people's opinoin's on the budget, you can ignore Charlie, because he is just an unsympathetic jerk, who spent his entire weekend thinking of those oh so clever jokes. And if Marc HS Senior is Marc Chouen, I hope it's not, but if it is, you should be ashamed of yourself, and you should be pushing this budget too. If it is not Marc Choes, you should still be ashamed, do you want the underclassmen to not get as good as an education, just because of a conspiricy. VOTE YES!!!!!!!!!!

[MyKidsAreWorthIt]

HeySUVSoccerMom,

Thank you for all the laughs. It is actually funny that you think the young hottie the ex will marry will put out like crazy and not spend money... BWAAAHAAAHAA!!

You obviously have a problem with people who have money.... I wonder why this is???

West Islip is FAR from Old Brookville... their houses START at about 1 million for a basic house...

I guess because people drive nice cars, dress differently than you do, and take their kids to afterschool activities, that makes them bad people?

And whoever said you have to keep up with the Joneses? Dress how you like, drive what you want... but don't take it out on the kids.

I am surprised you can see at all with the green-eyed monster standing so firmly in your line of sight.

[hobbie33]

I am a mother who has three children in one of the elementary schools, and I am so happy at the tone that the community is starting to take as the vote draws near. MANY of my neigbhors who voted no the first time now are voting yes. The overwhelming opinion walking
around town today is voting yes on the budget. No Bias, just my observations. I know my husband, and my parents, and my husband's parents, and our friends, and our two neigbhors on both sides of our house are all voting yes. I heard that the board meeting was very positive as well. Of many speakers, only a few who questioned the budget. I am glad, I want this budget to pass. VOTE YES!

[VOTE NO]

How can you people vote yes, the threat that they are holding our kids futures hostage is just a ploy to get more money in the wallets of the school board members, PTA, principals, superintendent, etc. When they are all arrested like Pam Glucken do all of you want to be charged as accessories to corruption?

[BigWhite1]

No Taxation without representation!!! Sound familiar? The Pro vote yes minority (yes minority! remember it was voted down) makes it seem that if the budget fails the school will be running on a bare bones austerity plan. The schools will not lose a dime...they just won't be collecting any new ones. ps. Vote No (again)! pss. Charlie rules!!!
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[forthebudget]

doesn't anyboyd who complains about the salaries or benefits that the teachers get, as compared to the average household, realize that these teachers are all required to obtain a Master's Degree? If you took a poll of others who have obtained that level of education, I am sure that you will find that they are making more than the average $55,000 that a teacher makes. Why shouldn't they deserve a salary befitting the level of education that they have received? Don't forget, they deal with the children that you don't have to all day.

[studentschool]

Now I've been reading these posts, and answering to some of them, and I've been holding back, trying not to go on and act like a screaming ranting lunatic, but I might have to. I don't know what else to do.

First of all, I am acting on my free will, no teacher has pressured me, despite what some of you might think. Doesn't that make you think that students care bout the budget. Which brings me to my next point.

Secondly, everybody loves a conspiricy. Now maybe I am naive, I dont know, but I've never heard of anything about secret plots of board members embezzeling money. In my opinion it all sounds really really absurd.

Fianlly, all those who are saying that all of the things on the budget that will be taken away are just a hype and will be taken away are wrong. What will be put in place is a STATE MANDATED contingency budget, which calls for the ABOLISHING of ALL AFTER-SCHOOL NON-MANDATED PROGRAMS. Possibly not just a hype. Now for some people who still don't get it, let me explain.

This will effect all those who have friends in ANY type of school music program. If you went to any jazz band concert or chamber night concert, or any Vocalmotion performance, and you some what enjoyed it, this effects you. If you saw any of the schools drama productions, including the musical, Once Upon A Mattress, and the Spring play, Tony N' Tina's Wedding, or any of the one act or senir plays, and somewhat enjoyed it, this effects you. If you enjoy going to any non-varsity school sport, this effects you. COuntless other thigs will be taken away

Just again, incase you didn't see it the first time, I did this out of my own free will, not being pressured from any teacher, or any administrator, I just do it, because I care about the school. Also, because I am involved in activities that the school provides, if this budget, my life, along with the lives of countless other students, will be a LIVING HELL. I ask that you please vote YES on June 22nd.

[KLIVIAN]

Well, I have been on the sidelines reading all of these nutty posts, and wanted to put my two cents in.

1. The No vote advocates are coming off as nasty, smarmy, obnoxious people who insult and condecend. It's funny, they practice what they say the school board does to us.

2. The opinion at the school board meeting yesterday was definitely pro-budget.

3. For Charlie and Bigwhite(Who are obviously the same person, he'll say it's not true, but it is), Gadfly, Soccersuvmom, and nymom, since you all have such bright ideas, why didn't you run for school board this year. I remind you, they ran un-opposed.

This budget must pass. Don't let the negative people fool you. Don't listen to the insults and rhetoric. Vote your heart. Vote YES!

[farley22]

Just wanted to chime in with some info from my block. I was outside talking with a large group of community members tonight, and every one was voting yes. This was about 15 people. Some had voted the budget down the first time. Just wanted to report from my little corner of the world.


Vote yes!

[Taunweyt]

I for one am voting YES on the re-vote on the 22nd. I voted no on that other one, but find the new numbers reasonable. I want this community to remain competitive with other districts. This is why I moved here. I want my kids to have every opportunity that I had. I will prioritize and think of my kids first.

[gadfly]

Hey,KLIVIAN "New School of thought"You site that we are Nasty well you haven't seen nasty. I was with 180 people last night. Long time residents who along with there family and friends are Voting NO!!!!!!First off. I serve my community&My Country .I have done so Serving my Community for over 30yrs. What have you done.With hard fiscal realities, being what they are. Who can spend $6000.00 dollars of there own money to run for the school board election. Who spends that kind of money for a job that pays nothing?Think about that. KLIVIAN for your information. I am doing something I'm Voting NO!!!!!!!along with the other hard working residents of this Town.It is very clear that if we don't control spending in our schools. I anticipate a huge deficit which will grow bigger each year.2004-2005 Budget.What are you going to do when each year they ask for more, the residents on a fixed income can't pay any more.What do you tell these people it's time to leave ."It is with a very heavy heart that. I tell you to Buzz-off.Un-opposed you said School Board elections. Again when people are working two job's to make ends meet, where do you find time to work running a school & a community into the ground.This Voting No is a very painful but necessary decision.You see when you truly care about your community unlike you who expects others to just follow your will.We are constructive people who understand the core of the problems that plague our schools.Your a fence sitter who watches everybody, judges them without Merritt.It's like the old saying "if you have nothing good to say ,say nothing".Now go back to class tell the teacher that we are all wise to all of you using the school computer's. This will be investigated soon so don't touch that dial stay tuned boy's and girl's we will be right back with some more exciting stuff from your WISTA,PTA an anybody else who deem it is necessary, to sand bag a community.If I learned anything from this school system it was integrity.You should be "stunned" into silence.The parent's who are not home owners should pay tuition.Prof of enrollment is a utility bill.Example of abuse.Let's say we want our kid to go to West Islip all you need to do is have a friend put an extra phone line into a house in your name receive a bill.They gave an Emergency contact number which was a work number and cell phone.OK, you rent an apartment, move don't tell anybody, you moved, filed a change of address with the post office, open a PO Box.My friend did this for a cousin.He did this when they moved from Huntington to West Islip, there child was allowed to attend school for three years until she graduated 2003.Another good idea.How Come our school board hasn't developed a coalition with other school districts and take the State of New York to Court, an claim suit against them for the fair share of money owed them why?. I spoke to a Board member about this suggestion her reply quote " she said they where scared to do that.End of quote.This is what we are dealing with.I'm paying $10.000.00 a year in taxes. You tell me what your paying if your a resident.This is with Veteran Credits,Star,Vol Firefighter credits, Even with all of this. I earned these exemptions so drop dead, if you think otherwise, If you have some smart remark.Don't be spending that two cents, you might be needing it to save your home, from being seized for back taxes.Assuming you own a home.It is very hard to not be nasty these days. For your information when you work so hard to keep what you have an somebody keeps sticking there collective hands into your pocket, looking for more of your hard earned money.You bet I'm nasty.What goes around will come around on you some day, an you will see our point of view.Have a Nice Day


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[klivian1]

Oy Gadfry. You really need to get a grip on the situation. I have been a community member for over 50 years, and know MANY people in this town. I was in fact with a huge group of people last night, and ALL were voting for the budget. They realize that 49 cents a day is not enough to flush the town down the toilet. My friend lives in Jericho, and can get 800,000 dollars for his house, which is no bigger then mine here. It is because of the SCHOOLS. Jericho is number one(or two) in the COUNTRY, and people will pay ANYTHING to expose their children to a caring, supportive, well-rounded school district. But you don't really care about that. All you care about is the dollar in your pocket. Happily, most people seem to have a better sense of judgement, as all of these passed re-votes affirm. Gadfry, you seem to have SOOOOOO many friends , why don't you get financed fopr School Board. I'm sure this town would do SOOOOOO much better with you in charge. Please.

Vote Yes! Yes! Yes!

[gadfly]

Hey,You arrogant Loser your missing the point.Get your head out of your a$$.The facts are clear. Yes it isn't alot of money.But when does it stop.Why don't you run for the school board I'm sure you would love to scam the people for your own personnel gain.Thats what I'm talking about.What are you a School Teacher in the district?This NO Vote is a message to the rank and file who think there able to take what they want without consequence .Both of my kids are former students and both are Federal agents.I'm retired an Trying to live on a pension.I have resided in West Islip since 1953.Served this community for 30 yrs as a Volunteer.I'm not thinking about myself as you are.Yes the kids are the most important asset we have in our community.So don't patronize me .Don't make a No Vote seem as if it is gloom an doom.I now the Yes vote is coming an the increase is only about 2% of money requested.Not alot of money.You know as well as. I do this Budget will pass but your not going to tell me how. I should Vote.You think you killed the messenger.Well Lady you made the hard working people of this Town, see how one sided this School issue is an .I want to thank you for that.The more you say to support this issue the better the No Vote seems....You shut down anybody who reports wrong doing and you wish to rationalize it away.For the record My house was just appraised at $700.000.So do you have kids in the school Now? Do you have a Business relationship with the School district or are you just looking to sell your home and run away to some other community to Live a good life with that extra money in your pocket?You see you are not part of the solution Lady your part of the problem.So give me 20 you maggot.Hey you have a Nice day
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[mrspotts]

Klivian, I agree with you 100%! Gadfry likes to say that you are disputing any point that he brings up, while he DOES THE EXACT SAME THING! I know my family and friends will bring about 30 yes votes to the table. With every point that you make Gadfly, you validate the yes vote and cripple the no vote. Keep going, Your helping the good guys win!

Vote YES!

[CLARK KENT]

Looking good dude hey this klivian1 does this mean theres more then One (1) of them they should of killed this one when it was a baby.Ha,Ha.Your right but I don't think the Vote is going to pass this time.I know you are one tuff sob and all but it sounds like you might be thinking that this Budget Vote might be passed.After hearing all the people we know talk this Vote should be put down just like last time with the exception that the no vote % will be higher.....Hey like the New Pvc fence you putup I heard from the bunch at the USMC HALL it cost you $8.500.00 Nice looking fence. I know this will increase the value of my house on the block.Anyway keep on keeping on.And if this klivian1 gives you a hard time remember, nothing means, nothing. semper fidelis

[Ckark Kent]

Looking good dude hey this klivian1 does this mean theres more then One (1) of them they should of killed this one when it was a baby.Ha,Ha.Your right but I don't think the Vote is going to pass this time.I know you are one tuff sob and all but it sounds like you might be thinking that this Budget Vote might be passed.After hearing all the people we know talk this Vote should be put down just like last time with the exception that the no vote % will be higher.....Hey like the New Pvc fence you putup I heard from the bunch at the USMC HALL it cost you $8.500.00 Nice looking fence I know this will increase the value of my house on the block.Anyway keep on keeping on.And if this klivian1 gives you a hard time remember nothing means nothing semper fidelis

[gadfly]

mrspotts or is that mrsbrownspot your right there is two kinds of Good.And we the Good guys will over come you Mutts.By the way. I just heard that all of the kids in computer class are posting on this board.And the Suffolk DA is collecting all of the IP'S From there computers so if your a student be careful.This is getting Nasty but remember you threw the first punch.I would love to have an intelligent conversation with you but. I don't think that is possible.You have all been brain washed by the corrupt school system.If you all could be independent thinkers then we could resolve some of our concerns but that doesn't seem possible.I understand the facts of what this budget will cost and again it's not alot of Money.That isn't the point.Don't think we don't know whats happening in our School District. And that your the only clued in people in our community.First off you are part of a faction which will reduce this community into Ash's.You have to take a stand if your a Tax payer if your part of the system which most of us suspect, that you are. And by the postings you just might be.I know nobody gives a crap about whats posted on this thread but then we wouldn't be able to make a case against you for abuse of tax payers money and official misconduct.See you in Court. Have a nice day

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[Skippy The Punk]

We know your the good guy, let these losers spin there wheels.I couldn't help chuckling at the suggestion of you being on the school board .between the medals of commendation in Nam,PD,FD,Your community service put together these Ahole's can't hold a candle to you.We made all of the calls. This should be a blowout next Tuesday.Remember Like that person said they have 30 people voting yes. We all know what that means 5 will find time to vote.This is not our first day, as political activists.You an everybody who is a positive solution in this community have a handle now.They will not get away with there one sided points of view anymore.They tried to push a candidate former school board member on the Fire Department last year we cleaned there clocks.Hey have you noticed how silent this board has become?........hey Gad I just got an idea maybe we should use our system to blowout the School Board......See you later.....

[Gum Shoe]

Your a Loser,tell us why would you attack a wonderful gentleman like Gadfly. You people did attack him first.He has made some very sound suggestions.Why would you put the guy down.You must be frustrated about losing the Budget Vote on Tuesday. So all of you posters ran into your computer science room, to do the bidding of your teachers. Once again,Don't be fooled when all of the issues, to include the matter of a Music teacher molesting a student is exposed. You will all think back about the events of today an the days to come.Remember we are all Innocent until proved guilty.We are all entitled to disagree until we are disagreeable.Gadfly just stated his opinion you provoked him into responding not in kind. An you should all apologize to him.I know he can stick up for himself an he will not be happy with me defending him but this was wrong of you, few to bash this man.This just goes to show that some people in West Islip are very dis-functional I don't say this to offend anybody but I worked in West Islip for many years responding to family disputes.The people are very winnie for a lack of a better word.The school District is stereo typed to be #1 in Drugs amongest the other area Schools.This is something to be proud of.This is an After school program that will still be scheduled, even if the Budget fails.We are watching you, an we know what you did last summer.So keep posting those threads so all of the IP's can be looked at one by one.Looking forward to seeing you Vote No!!!!!!!!!!6-22-04

[ChrisF202]

Quote:And the Suffolk DA is collecting all of the IP'S From there computers so if your a student be careful.
There is a law enforcement investigation into the West Islip School District now? They are going to uncover a huge box of scandals.
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[gadfly]

You are our Junior G-Man, Buddy you know it's not entirety about the Budget.The corruption must stop the community know's about the use of school computers just to mention a few indiscretions .Thank you for your support. Buddy we can only save our schools with the diligence of the of the good student's like your self.We need to set the record straight for the hard working people in this community who want there tax dollars to produce fine young Americans like your self.This Town is my life.I share the sentiment of many fine residents who are not looking to hurt the students but make this Town better then it ever was before.So thank You for caring about posting the truth and only the truth.So put on your seatbelt this is going to be a bumpy ride.
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[ChrisF202]

Im willing to do what is necessary for a better town myself, ill cooperate as much as I can (which I will have to eventually), but I can rest knowing I did a good thing.
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[herewegoagain]

Just got done reading a lot of these posts. I read you 5X5, but You've an uphill battle. Its a strong lobby to overcome. We all know that the kids are pawns to the districts. Change has to come from somewhere. I know from my own District battles and the exchanges I have engaged in here. I know that there are many sharp guys like TonyB and others that are in your district speaking the truth. I don't want to take away from whats been said already, but I got your six.
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[agenko]

Hey Klivian, just like these bozos are affirming each other, know that you have plunty of support by your side as well. The Punk says that he has made the calls, well so have we. THOUSANDS OF THEM. I do believe that this is going to be a blow-out on Tuesday, of YES VOTES! Go crawl back in your hole Punk, and stop kissing Gadfly's butt. He is nothing but a grumpy, miserly man who looks after no-one but himself. He ,makes it like he loves the town, but cares NOTHING about the children or young parents of this district. I also have knowledge of wrong doing by the no-voters, so don't play like you guys are so wonderfully clean. You guys are fighting a dirty game, and make no mistake, WE are the good guys.

VOTE YES!!!

[higbie67]

It's kind of funny, everyone on this board is saying"I know 100's of people that are voting this way." With so many hundreds of people voting both ways, it should be a huge turnout on Tuesday. I myself am going to vote yes, as are most of the people that I have talked to today. Everyone has their own opinion, and that is to be respected. Mine is that the students are worth the extra 177 dollars a year. This district will take years to recover from a contingency budget. I hope the majority agrees with me next Tuesday.

VOTE YES!

[Jonbon]

LIke many others, I have read this board for a few days and have had some laughs at the crazy posts by some of these people. Gadfry, you make me laugh. You are so intent on covering up some big cover-up at the school board, yet rant incoherently at every chance you get. I am a long-time resident of West Islip, and have put two children through the district. I love this town as well, and will be voting yes for the budget. I want every child to have every opportunity next year. I will dig a little deeper to keep this school district going. You guys keep saying that everyone who puts up a yes post is a teacher,a student, or working for the district. That's a desperate attempt to discredit anyone with a different point of view. As I have seen, Gadfry was doing the attacking before anyone else. So were Charlie, soccermon, the Punk guy, and Charlie. Insulting comments from a rude bunch of people who don't know how to debate.

VOTE YES!

[BigWhite1]

That was some battle of words. I dont know where to begin...oh yea...someone said I'm Charlie? Nah, just an ex-jar head who's tired of being fleeced by the tax system. Dont get me wrong, I'm all for working people to make a fair wage,but 55,60 80K,whatever...for 8mos work with better than bankers hrs??? with no commute to NYC?? Its a good gig! So just enjoy it and stop hitting us up for more and more money! I see eye to eye with Gadfly as far as there are people who serve their community & country(kinda lost me a little with the DA and secret police stuff hahaha) and then there are the BS'ers, who's greatest contribution to society is breeding. U know the old saying...It takes a Village to raise a child...Lets not let the Breeders dictate who gets schooled. Kids are a community's greatest resource so stop using them. Not just voting yes because it'll make you a good parent! Lead and raise them by your OWN example!( uh-oh you might have to get involved and help your fellow man once in a while). ps. VOTE NO
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[studentschool]

Now, I'm not sure, I was never that good at logic, but I don't get it. Again, I'm not positive, but I always thought that voting against the budget of a great school system, would hurt the community. Now, maybe I am wrong, but isnt it possible that if everybody votes no, and the all those programs are cut from the budget, then the school system will be worse. And wouldn't that cause a worse community, because the alumni wouldn't be as educated, less people would want to live here, so property values would go down, and also teachers wouldn't want to work here as much as they do. I thought that it was common knowledge. But for some reason Gadfly seems to be telling us that my making the school and the community bad, It will somehow make it good. I just dont get it. Would somebody be nice enough to explain that to be


VOTE YES!

[wialumni]

I am a West Islip alumni. I will be an elementary teacher next year. I've finally come home to West Islip and have been observing the frustration on both sides of this contentious issue. I believe the budget should be supported.

I can understand that for the many fixed-income residents in West Islip, any increase in taxes can have serious consequences. Health care costs and gas prices are skyrocketing. This affects all residents of WI, but will hit our senior citizens the most.

The school budget votes that occur on Long Island (and other locales nationwide) happens to be one of the only places citizens can control their taxes. I wonder if this this is the proper venue to express messages to school administration or to the Board of Education, to the county government, to the state, or federal government. I suspect not. Why? Because I don't think it's proper to reduce the educational opportunities of students if there are other means. All those that wrote no: did you know that education is one of the smallest parts of the federal budget? For the federal budget Pres. Bush has proposed, $53.1 billion of the budget is for education. If enacted, this would be the lowest percentage increase for education in nine years.
In comparison, Defense receives $365.3 billion.

The school district has a number of educational requirements established by the state and federal governments. Coupled with the economic downturn, schools are being forced to take ever-increasing parts of their budgets and put them into the retirement funds for the teachers. In addition, for all students that require special education, the district must provide them what is specified in their Individual Education Plan. These are, by law, non-negociable and increase every year, especially as enrollment increases.

If we want to fight the school board, why did three of them run unopposed in the last election? If anyone is fed up with how this the school district is run, first, write to the existing board. If you think you can do better, run for the board when the next vacancy opens.

Imagine a school where there is no extra-curriculars, no music, no art, huge classes. Well, this scenario already exists in some schools to meet the needs to satisfy requirements of the No Child Left Behind Act, supported by Pres. Bush. An underfunded program, schools must comply.

These arguments for voting yes paint a somewhat bland picture, based in political theory. Yet, I offer some alternatives. The benefits I received from participating in the very programs proposed to be cut. I was President of my class when I attended WIHS, I was heavily involved in music, in drama, in the Student Senate. In addition to my classroom education, I learned responsibility, organization, leadership. I learned comraderie, I made friends. I gained confidence. If these groups are cut, many students like me and all the ones I worked with will lose a vital part of their education. I may not have played sports, but if sports are cut (JV and 9th grade sports will be cut if the budget does not pass next Tuesday), these students will lose opportunities to learn these bits of character as well.

There may be students from out of town in WI schools, but that's because the WIUFSD has so much to offer.

There may be drugs in our schools, but weren't there when you attended? Did you notice how much trouble there is in controlling them? Especially if parents aren't helping?

WI spends almost the least per student as it is. The teachers are also close to the lowest paid (less than $35,000 a year). And year after year, teachers and administrators make this money go farther and farther. But they need community support and investment in education.

Enrollment is skyrocketing in WI...let us not disenfranchise the hundreds of new students entering the public schools right now. Next year, the class of 2016 will enter elementary school. They deserve as much as I received, if not more, so that they can succeed and be competitive in a world where a college education becomes increasingly necessary.

Please, vote YES on June 22nd!

[carlin65]

Wow. Very strong words from both sides. If nothing else, this forum has given rise to some great debate. My family and friends are going to vote yes, as am I. Take care, and hope to see you on June 22 voting yes with me.

[charlie]

Well Ms elementary school teacher let me take you to the blackboard.

Apparently no one has told you yet but no one has ever said any programs are 'Going' to be cut. The terminology is "May Be Affected".

Let me see if I have this right. You blather on about how heavily you were involved in Music & Drama in HS yet you ended up as an elementary school teacher? A lot of call for third grade drama teachers is there? So what happened? Someone in college finally told you that you can't sing or act? No offense intended but I guess your living proof as to why we shouldn't be funding these kind of electives.

I know you're NOT a math teacher simply because several years ago there were about 3,500 students in the HS and now there's about 1,600. Hardly what one would label 'Skyrocketing Enrollment'.

But you got right to the meat of the matter didn't you? Money! ".. schools are being forced to put increasing amounts of the budget into their retirement budget.."

These teachers were so brain dead dumb, mis-managed their retirement fund, took a BATH in the stock market and now want us taxpayers to make up the difference!! Geee.. I guess you never heard the term... Sell Short!

Which is curious because that's exactly what every teacher that's come into the broken down American K-12 system in the last 30 years is doing. Selling students Short!

But don't worry! You were a HS Drama student! Why don't you show us this scene? Go up to the top of a skyscrapper, open the window and jump! Don't worry, when you hit the ground and go SPLAT we tax payers will clean up the mess.

Welcome to the Neighborhood!

PS: I hope you're the family that's about to move in next to me. I'll be feeding my dog Ex-Lax and 'TEACHING' him how to crap on your lawn 24/7
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[FIREMAN592]

From earlier posts...

"the students are worth the extra 177 dollars a year"

"I am a long-time resident of West Islip... I love this town as well, and will be voting yes for the budget"

"Please take a look at the posts saying to vote no, and you will see a pattern of insanity, dellusion, and non-sensical ranting. Vote yes, and send these crazies a lesson!"

"I want to say yes, but when will these budget rises become realistic?"

"I agree, Save The Community! Vote NO!"

"Most of the kids that come out of the W.I. HS are dumber than dirt to start with so why even have them here and go through all this aggrevation anyway?"

"wouldnt it be cheaper to pay 100 for every sport your kid wants to play then the 450 dollar average increase"

"Sorry to burst your bubble, but the community is going to come together and do what is right for the children."

"I was honestly stunned that the district is asking for a double digit tax hike."


All of these were taken diretly from this thread! There are, honestly, good points for and against both sides and yet I have not seen TRUE LOGIC!!! While the majority of the postings call for "saving the community" or "saving the kids" you forget to remember that this is the same community that turned down a $60 increase on their Fire Taxes!! Now some, I repeat SOME, of those same people are saying YES to an additional $200 or so on School Taxes. Like many of you said "When is enough, ENOUGH??"

Understand I am speaking on my own personal behalf, and do not wish to create another dispute within community organizations, but How can this town contribute an additional couple hundred dollars to education when they said $60 was "TOO MUCH TO PAY" for their own life and the lives of their children??? This is where confusion truly sets in.

I admit that when I was in the WI school system I wanted the budget to pass, honestly I did. Yet looking back...
What was the benefit??
-Teachers are of the lowest paid on the island.
-Books where consistently out-dated
-The school did get a "public available" fitness area (ever use it?? me niether)
...just to name a few

And still each year some kids get +1300 SAT's, some go Ivy League or other top educational college's, and some drop-out and others still decide to just work. In the past, PASS OR FAIL, the only thing that hasn't changed is the consistent "SHOW ME THE MONEY" chant from the school!!!!

vote your own way... just know WHY????????

[Flying Circus]

If property values were directly related to the quality of the schools in the area, then Hershey PA would have the highest property values on the planet. They spend over 100K a year per student. Every student recieves his or her own lap top computer and much more.

Oddly enough the property values in that town are much less than in Suffolk County. Kind of shoots that theory right in the foot.

Teachers are the only ones trying to keep that myth alive. What teachers think everyone doesn't know is that property values on Long Island are a direct result of the condition of the community and it's distance from NYC. There's only so much space on long island and people want to live here due to it's proxcimity to city.

The school/property myth doesn't pass the laugh test.

Some people have opined that teachers 'Deserve' good pay. WHY? That's like saying the guy in the car wash deserves good pay. Yes yes yes I know.. teachers went to some college and theyyyy worked so harddddd, (kinda like working a construction crew so hard) blah blah blah.

But look at what this crop of teachers has done in the last 30 years? Eubonics! Whole Reading! (you know whole reading? the spiffy educational brain storm that says.. You don't have to actually teach a child to read, you just give him a book) and I won't even mention the embarassing fact that now there are third world countrys that deliver a better education than kids can get in the United States!

Ask yourself this...
Why do teachers have a Union?

Unions are meant to protect rank and file workers with out contracts from being fired. BUT teachers already have Tenure and essentially can't be fired unless they are some kind of monumental screw up.

So the only other purpose the teachers union serves is to extort money from the community. Don't think so? Go to a teachers union meeting sometimes. They aren't talking about the welfare of your child, they are talking exclusively about salarys and benefits.

So.. when a teacher tells you it's not about the money, it's about education? You know it's about the money!

[Business Office Rep]

Due to the impending failure of the school budget the District will be auctioning off the following items.

Assorted School Newspaper Computers
All Musical Instruments
Assorted Furniture
Assorted Childrens Toys
As well as various other assorted and sundry items.

If interested please call the listed numbers and inquire about the defeated budget auction for dates and times.

Asst. Superintendent for Business Joan Niles, 893-3200, ext. 320

The Community Relations Office, 893-3200, ext. 371

Thank You

[wialumni]

In response to Charlie's personal attacks, and if there is a question to the legitimacy of my claims that the West Islip schools did instill in me high values and the ability to succeed, I offer the following credentials: I actually graduated Magna Cum Laude with distinction from my university...in psychology and political science. In college, I was able to land a lead role in a production my freshmen year, enroll in a symphonic chorus and a vocal jazz ensemble, become president of my dorm twice (happens to be one of the largest in the country). I was an officer in many other organizations, but choose not to discuss them all. This discussion should be about the students. Nevertheless, I would never of been able to shore up my skills without WI. What I learned in West Islip has allowed me to be accepted in the highly competitive Teach for America program. I will be teaching in inner-city Washington, DC for two years before pursuing a law degree and Masters in Public Policy.

And, for you, it wasn't the teachers that poorly invested their retirement, it was the company holding the funds. And even so, didn't we all take a bath in the recent economic decline? Many sectors were hurt, education should of been protected better.

Charlie, why don't you move out of Wi if you hate it so much? I've been here for over 16 years, and I moved here for the education.

[charlie]

Did I perhaps offend your delicate Politically Correct sensibility's Wi Alumni?

You shoot your mouth off but You Keep Missing The Target!

You obtained a degree in psychology and political science? So what are you saying? You're teaching 3'rd graders psychology and political science? That's a new one on all of us.

I went to a BIG NAME University too after I came back from Vietnam.

Trust me! We're not impressed when you say..

"..I was able to land a lead role in a production my freshmen year.."

What do you think? You were on Broadway?? Everyone knows who are in those college productions. Fancy Lads and the walking inflato dolls the Jocks use for weekend recreation.

But what really sent the soda flying out of my nose was when you said.... "I was PRESIDENT of my DORM.. TWICE!"

Hold on while I compose myself.. I'm lol to the point of convulsions!

For those that don't know.. the Dorm Pres. is generally a badge wearing card carrying member of the Nerd Herd! A walking talking target for socks and used jocks every time she walks by! Ya think maybe there was a reason you put yourself in that position? Like maybe you're a Masochist???

You ACT like Teach For America is something laudable. Our K-12 schools aren't even in the global top 20 anymore. I might be impressed if somebody nominated you for Teach For Zimbabwe though.

AND after all your self promoting horn blowing, I have CREDENTIALS, i'm SO smart don't you dare challenge me BS ... it comes down to you whining about Oh Boo Hoo Hoo... It wasn't the TEACHERS that mismanaged their retirement fund.. It was someone else!!

Unlike YOU.. I made money when the market went down. But I would have loved to be in a situation where I could invest in the market, take a loss, shrug my shoulders and say.. So What, The Taxpayers will make up all my loses! Gambling with other peoples money when you can't loose is the Holy Grail!

So, in closing let me just say this.

I don't want my kids being educated by a moron that uses our money and has NO clue about the stock market. And then has the GALL to push the blame onto someone else.

I don't want my kids being educated by a person who thinks being Dorm President is something to be proud of.

And I certainly don't want my kids being educated by a teacher that won't explain to the students why the word Lawyer is no longer synonymous with scumbag and the word Teacher is!

Thanks For Your Input!

PS: We all knew there was 'CUM' somewhere in your degree.
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[WI parent2]

hear, hear!! My children came through the West Islip school system as well as me and my husband.
They should not hold our children's education as ransom.
Begin at the TOP. We as a community should demand it. Open all books and let's see the administration pay raises and all other stipends given. Then summit a budget without compromising our children's music, band, art etc.
We have to vote yes, then clean house!

[wires19]

Charlie, please give me a break and stop pretending you are some witty journalist who spouts great beads of wisdom. You are not as funny as you give yourself credit for. So you came back from Nam. OOOHHHHHH. Impressive. I was in the gulf war. so what. What does that have to do with anything. I think that the one thing that people associate with the word scumbag is:
CHEAPO CHARLIE! See you at the polls buddo.

[KLIVIAN]

I know where Charlie went to school:

SCUMBAG STATE!



VOTE YES! YES! YES!

[charlie]

Dear WI Parent2;

I do understand your position, but I don't think you're aware of the following.

Being educated In West Islip is the same as being a member of a Cancer Cluster around a Nuclear Power Plant.

Since not only have you and your husband but your entire family been exposed to this your best course of action would be...

Vote No!

Then sue the school district for 'Failure To Deliver'
(an education that is)

You're going to come out like roses across the board!
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[charlie]

Ohhhh.... i'm bleeding!

Well.. i wasn't going to mention it....

But I DID wonder... you said you went to a HUGH meeting?

What was that? Weight Watchers and you were locked in a mirrored room all by yourself?

AND you're right! I Don't Deny It... I did go to Scumbag State.

(I didn't think you wanted anyone to know that though since Your Mouth Was The Scumbag, And My Johnson Was The State)

But since you had a small role in Pretty In Pink... I Guess It Doesn't Matter.

But what does that have to do with the budget?

The Majority's Voting NO Again
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[charlie]

Really?

What Unit?

You Deployed Where?

Your MOS?

Sounds more like StudentSchool trying to stuff more socks into her training bra if you ask me.

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[momconcerned]

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and run for the school board or show up at a board meeting where you would get the facts straight. Get up in front of everyone there and shoot your mouth off to the people that you want to listen.

As far as the teachers retirement fund that is neither the teachers or the districts fault. The STATE invests the money and gives every district the bill for it. Their advisors project the $$ that need to be in the fund and charge the district. So take that beef up with the State and all the other cuts they have forced the district to pass on to the residents. The board members pay taxes here too, do you actually think they want to increase the taxes. Get a grip and get your facts straight. The only thing your good at is slandering everyone behind a chat room instead of out in the open. Your are coward.......VOTE YES and tell people like this idiot to move out of our great town.......

[wialumni]

Education is what allowed the United States to overcome communism during the Cold War. Education is will always preserve American freedoms.

If we do not invest in education, our economy could likely be decimated by the rising economies of Japan, India, and China. Looking farther into the future, the EU might find a place to plant itself...the impact of this on the American economy may prove disasterous (caveat emptor: these large trading regions may also allow growth in the US economy, I'm not Alan Greenspan).

Some of those that want to vote no want to vote no because they want to volunteer their right to control their taxes. But, if your children were students (and undoubtedly they were) attended any public school, wouldn't you want them to have everything you had and more? I will continue to concede, of course, that the money might be spent better. But, that only comes from us, as citizens, work towards that larger goal. You don't solve problems with school spending by cutting it off, not permitting it to grow or improve.

As it is, the HS media center (aka library) cannot be fully staffed due to budget contraints. Seems contradictory that we voted to build this fantastic new library (if you're thinking of voting no for the budget, just go to this library and tell me if it wasn't worth it) and we won't fund the staff to allow our students too take advantage of it!

Vote yes for the budget, then get involved and help the School Board. If you'd rather take the fight to the streets, maybe it's time that we repealed the codes barring industry or other large businesses from WI. The amount of new money coming into the town can only help lift the burden from the taxpayer's shoulders. Years ago, there was concern that by putting in a drive-through McDonald's in WI would invite trouble. If there was any effect of McD's (Sunrise Hwy, near Bob's), it's only that it brought more business in. By redeveloping the Dzus land, the land at Higbie Lane and Montauk Hwy...it may be possible.

I also read a great article today in the Great South Bay magazine ("Teachers, "pg 6-7) about an alumni of WI who graduated 1965 (even before charlie). Bob Chalich shows that WI has had a tradition of quality education and for being a community center.

Vote yes. That's the only way we can even think of changing anything.

[KLIVIAN]

Don't you worry about Ol Charlie Cheapo. He is under the dillusion that the Majority will vote no this Friday. He will insult, rant, rave, and demean untill Tuesday, then will never be heard from again. He will slink back into his hole, and do the Mick Jagger chicken the whole while . Let him have his fun, we will be the ones laughing come Tuesday. Come out and vote yes and join the good guys!

[carlin65]

Don't you guys worry about ol' Charlie Cheapo. He will rant and rave and insult and lie for three more days, and then we will never hear from him again. The night the budget passes he will slink back into his hole in the ground, doing his chicken walk while he eats a @#%$ sandwich. Typical message board coward, hiding behind a keyboard while he spews hatred and deciet. He actually believe sthat he his going to part of the majority come Tuesday night. He states that the Majority will vote no. What he fails to state is what majority will vote no. The cynical, miserly, uninformed grumps will vote mostly no, I agree. But the majority of GOOD people, of which West islip is full of, will vote yes.
Do the right thing, and come over to the light side! VOTE YES!

[WIParent1]

I love (To hate) that Charlie Cheapo! I think he should be our rallying cry next week. How about:

Charlie Cheapo Loses, we all win!
or
Charlie Blows!
Just some ideas.

Lets get this fool out of West Islip and go on with our lives.

The majority is going to vote yes

[BigWhite1]

Hey Charlie, do you get a sense that the same people are logging in under different names??? I hope that is the case, otherwise that would mean I'm surrounded by a bunch of faggy nerds and geeks. I love the witty comebacks like.."you'll see Buddo", "cheapo","crawl in your hole". Whats next...Bucko? Doodie head? sit on it? We hang out regularly with about 12 of our neighbors, so I know there all cool...but, then again maybe I'm surrounded by a bunch of Richie Cunninghams! AAAAhhhhhh!!! Oh, wait a minute that can't be... because the budget already was crushed by 1100 votes. Whew, I got scared for a minute. Ps.VOTE NO 6/22 pss.Charlie Rules!
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[Johnny Scumbag]

Dear Charlie,

You sound like a sweet guy. The women must really love you.

Here are the facts:

- you are a tool
- you have no friends
- you are the kind of guy who sits at the end of the bar drinking until he can't stand up
- you have a metal plate in your head
- your family probably calls you "Cooter"
- you probably drive a '75 green Chevy Nova with white wall tires
- you are a tool

I will never be on this site again, so feel free to reply back; however, I won't see your inane reply. I was just passing through and thought your comments were inappropriate and off the mark. Enjoy the rest of your bitter life! BTW - I'm voting YES!

Best regards,

Johnny Scumbag

[WIParent1]

Bigwhite (attempts to) write that "Oh, wait a minute that can't be... because the budget already was crushed by 1100 votes."
Hang on to that fact, it all you are going to have left on June 23.
By the way, I find it kind of ironic and amusing that you accuse others of double posting when EVERYONE KNOWS that you and Charlie are the same person(again, a loose term!)

Vote YES!

[wialumni]

Let's not lower ourselves to the level that fellow posters have gone and attack each other. I hope we can continue our civility and argue issues and ideas.

We are all adults.

But, if I can remark, if the budget does not pass, many elective classes may be affected. Charlie, did you know that the HS has a spectacular class known as "The Road to Vietnam?" It was one of the best classes I took and the most informative on why our nation has developed how it has. We can't sacrifice these jewels of education!

We need to look at ways of accounting for the money the district spends, make sure everyone is accountable, look for value in our money, and develop strong community relationships with the Superintendant and Board of Ed.

[Question]

WIALUMNI I QUOTE:

"And, for you, it wasn't the teachers that poorly invested their retirement, it was the company holding the funds. And even so, didn't we all take a bath in the recent economic decline?"


EXACTLY, Yes we all "took a bath" however, what you are saying is that not only do we taxpayers have to make up our own lost investments, but we have to make up the teachers too. What makes the teachers so much above everyone else that we suffer twice as much and they don't lose out at all>>>>
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[Tony B]

While your cry to "vote yes, then clean house" sounds good, if you take the time to ask about the history of such votes in this town, what you will find is a long history of vote yes and forget about it.

This is why these issues come to such a boil every few years. Well intended people feel they need to protect their kids education and cast an unquestioning yes. Never mind that the school budget has outpaced inflation 4 to 1. Never mind they attribute this inconsistency with inflation to health insurance and retirement funding, which are two items that make up a very small portion of the budget.

If you take the time to really study this and find out how many times this same history has repeated itself, you will see this district has not acted in the best interest of this community or the students. I understand that it may be easier or safer to vote yes and not risk having to make any personal sacrifices or compromises to help remedy this situation, but until people realize that change is never easy, and often requires some unpleasantness, nothing will change.
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[Tony B]

You explain how the costs of teachers retirement are passed along and become a "mandate", but doesn't it concern you that this "mandate", which represents just over 1% of the budget, is being used to explain why the school budgets consistently out pace the normal rates of inflation? What about the other 98.8%?? I'd like to know...and haven't been able to get an answer yet!
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[Tony B]

You wrote...

Quote:The teachers are also close to the lowest paid (less than $35,000 a year).

The actual number, as of last count, was an average of $55,000...which works out to $77,000 per year if you factor in that a teacher works less than most other workers.

This "lowest paid" stuff has been thrown around a lot, and it is just another example of lying with statistics. Why are the teachers the lowest paid...???

In explaining the need for high numbers of administrators, the districts own information refers to...

Quote:The overall youth of our professional staff,

It is easy to see that if the staff is made up of younger, less experienced teachers, they have not put in the years to build up their salaries to levels comparable to other districts. It is not because the district is trying to save us all money by paying teachers less or that they don't have the money to pay them. It is simply a function of a staff that is younger and based on the pay structure for teachers, will therefore be lower paid!


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[wialumni]

In response to Question who asked why we should bear the burden for losses in our own investments as well as WI teachers.

This is always a tough issue, but I believe it comes down to what we owe educators. Essentially, they are not much different from government employees; teachers are essential if we value a free, universal education system. Right now, our taxes (federal and state) cover all governmental employee salary and retirement benefits. It would be unfair for us to neglect these employees, since they are working for us. I use this to parallel the ideal role of teachers in society: to teach. If teaching does not provide at least some economic incentive, no qualified teacher would teach. They would be able to earn more elsewhere.

What our main issue is that NY state mandates school districts set aside a certain percentage of tax revenue to provide for future retirement benefits. If the market takes a turn for the worse, this money must be made up, or, it seems, the district is liable, especially if it cannot fund what it is supposed to. Teachers receive health care and retirement, as all of us would receive working for any other large corporation. The WIUFSD is a "large corporation" that is mandated to supply these. And, as we (and the students) are consumers, these benefits must be paid for. It would be unfair not to pay for these benefits. Maybe it's not the school to blame, but the state (and Pataki, who has orchestrated many education cuts over the last few years).

Thank you, Tony B for allowing me to clear up my points. I agree with you 100% that history does not portend well when it comes to education reform in WI. Yet, it might still be true and necessary that concerned citizens begin to question the district more intently. There really is no reason that three incumbant Board of Ed members ran unopposed. Maybe it's a larger question of declines in civic engagement...I don't know, but our ability to hold our elected officials accountable is thwarted when no one runs.

What I want to know is what you specifically believe are issues that the district has not worked in the best interest of the community or students. As an alum of WI, I feel that my needs were satisfied. However, looking at improvements in the district, the renovations, the much more diverse selection of classes, even the existence of an alternative night school, all seem to project to me that the school is trying to do what it's supposed to do best: teach.

Of course, WI is not a single town facing these problems. If so many budgets had huge increases, working independently, across Long Island, this points to a systemic or endemic problem facing us, residents of LI. We need to do some soul searching perhaps (or, buy a sedan and not the SUV, the gas money you save is more than the increases per month you'd likely see).

Lastly, Tony B, I wish to alter my argument concerning teacher salary. When I was in the HS, WI began its first phase out of older teachers; a lot of young teachers did move in to replace them. However, I thought the average salary of comparative teachers (teachers who had tought similar amount of years) were disparate, with WI much lower. Being more clear, are our initial salaries lower than other districts? My impression from the influx of new teachers is that that is true; many teachers come to WI to start their career, then leave since they are able to get higher paying jobs elsewhere.

If anyone knows the real data on teacher salaries, it would be much appreciated.

[momconcerned]

Finally someone who hit the nail on the head. All of your points were correct. It's about time we had some intelligent life here.....keep up the good work

[BigWhite1]

Ow! You hurt my feelings. I'm telling the Fonz! Ps. VOTE NO!
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[Tony B]

I agree with you that this isn't just a problem for our town, however, that does not alter the fact it is a problem.

I must note that I find your "buy a sedan instead of an SUV" comment very offensive. This is not because I like SUV's, but because you seem to think we should change our personal spending habits to help finance the fiscal irresponsibility of these school districts. The systemic or endemic problem to which you allude is one of a lack of accountability. This same behavior pattern is common to all forms of publicly financed institutions. Real businesses do not have the luxury of being so grossly out of step with the remainder of the economy and simply demanding more from those footing the bills. Governments, schools, and other public agencies simply treat you and I like a limitless reservoir. Some, like you, seem to feel that this is an inevitable part of life. Perhaps you are right, and are adding years to your life by not letting it get to you. I, on the other hand, am not willing to be the bottomless well. Many other CANNOT continue to be the bottomless well. Will a no vote change this pattern? Perhaps not, but I can tell you with a far higher degree of certainty that a yes vote will not.

I also note you seem to have ignored my point that retirement, and health-care costs, which have admittedly skyrocketed, represent a very small portion of the district's budget. I can most certainly understand that they will cause an increase, but they alone cannot explain why the rises in our school taxes have so outpaced inflation. Whether they are mandated or not is irrelevant to my question.

You are correct that a school systems most important job is to teach, but they also need to show a sense of accountability and responsibility to the community that pays the bills. If you were paying someone to do some job for you, and the rises in their billing consistently were far higher than rises in other costs would you feel they were acting in your best interest? Yes teaching is of paramount importance, but we have to be realistic and realize these schools are not functioning in a vacuum. They cannot keep going back to the well over and over and expect the community of which they are a part to just roll over every time.

As for people running for school board, I would contend that I should not have to be on the school board to have them act responsibly. That should be something that they would want to do independent of my personal oversight. That said, I would again refer you to history of this town. I was present at meetings years back when people who demanded change did just as you say. They used their own money to finance a campaign to get on the board, but once they tried to effect any changes they were met with opposition that went to the extremes of threats of physical harm. To be frank, I am not willing to go through that.

As for your points regarding teachers salaries, I do not know if what you report is truth or fiction. I do know that the district has far more applicants than positions available. If you are correct that teachers leave after a short time that is not a good thing, but I am once again not certain if this is a accurate.

Thanks for taking the time to share your views.


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