What Do The Teachers Unions Consider Fair Pay?

[Alice]

If Teacher Compensation accounts for 75-80% of school budgets across NYS like the post on the other thread says the State Ed reports show, isn't that the logical place to start if you want to understand school budgets? Teachers unions are always asking for more. Is there any limit the unions would consider out of bounds?
________
Magic Flight Launch Box (http://mflbvaporizer.com)

[teach]

Of course teacher's pay is the largest item in a school budget. Shouldn't it be?

Personnel is the largest item in any budget(in Public or private industry). Most teachers only want a salary that they can survive ,that will provide an opportunity to take care of our families and that we can put a little away for emergencies and retirement. That's not asking for too much is it.

Unfortunately teachers have become an easy target. You should be complaining about $9-$10 movie prices, $7 tolls, Nassau County taxes, sanitation district rip offs, over development of NC.. oh I can ramble on !

We spend more time with your kids than anyone else. Why? Because most of us know that our (the Nation) future depends on us.
We can make a lot more in the private sector. That's a fact.

[Night Shift]

Of course we all want to make a living wage but teachers in my school have outpaced the average household in pay and benefits for a while now. Teaching is an important job just like lots of other jobs in the community. How much better than the rest of us do you figure they should live? And how much should we sacrifice to make that happen?
________
Mercedes-Benz M111 Engine Specifications (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M111_engine)

[teach]

What district are you talking about? Perhaps I could apply there. I happen to work in a district that is one of the lowest paid on LI with very high test scores.


Last municipal contract I saw was for 5% each year for 3 years. Average teacher contract was 3.5% each year.

Did you know that attorneys employed by sewer districts, water authorities, towns, villages, county etc. charge $250-$400/hour? How about going after that waste of government money.

How about no-show jobs in the towns? Plenty of patronage with many feeding out of the public trough. All I am saying is that if you are going to complain about teacher salary be prepared to go after everyone else too.
Teachers are at the bottom of the list.

[whocares]

I always laugh when I read about how little teachers get, and than they point the finger at Municipal employees and say he look at what they get, I work in the private industry, and I went 3 years without any increase.. none, 0%, and guess what I survived, I'm not saying you shouldn't get any increase, but how about getting into the private world where when your 401k tanks in the market, the taxpayers don't pick up the tab, like they are going to have big time this year for the TRS, and ERS (check today's newsday 12/29/03), so don't complain to me you don't have enough for your retirement, yours is guranteed, and NYS tax free, and so are your raises and so is your job with tenure and union backing, don't get me wrong I respect teachers, but I hate when they and the union complain about how bad they have it. Go into the private sector where your salary is for more than 182 days, and there are no gurantees.

[Fact Finder]

Median Pay for NYS by Occupation
(Source 2000 Census)

$28,433 All New York State Civilain Workers
Ages 21-74

$44,574 Elem and Middle School Teachers $46,331 Secondary School Teachers
$40,922 Special Education Teachers

[all the facts]

How many of those jobs require a MA and certification by the state?

[ECO 101]

NYS Taxpayers fund school budgets.
NYS Teacher pay makes up 75-80% of school budgets. NYS Teachers' pay far outpaces the average taxpayer.

[Science Guy]

our board of ed made a final offer on a four year contract for only 12%.They should be ashamed of themselves.My car payments are $475 a month and my property taxes just went over $11,000.How are we supposed to survive on this,keep a positive attitude and enjoy teaching knowing the administrators received 5% this year? Not fair!
________
Aromed Vaporizers (http://www.vaporshop.com/aromed-vaporizer.html)

[whocares]

I feel I am being fair, you guys continue to compare yourselves inside your own circle, while I'm looking at it from a wider scope, I, like many other private sector people lost ten of thousands on our 401k plans, yet there is no bail out to recoup our loss, but last year and this year tax payers are paying for the state's unwise decision to invest our tax monies which fund the trs and ers in the markets, they all say it was great when the market was making money, but now we have to foot the bill for the downturn, I don't think it should be legal to let those investments be at risk to the taxpayers, if that means your pensions don't reap the benefits of high market gains so be it, if you want guarantees, the yield should be low, as far as the salaries, there are plenty of executives that have advanced degrees in their industries and the only guarantee they have is to meet the bottom line or someone else will. So if you are going to compare, look at a wider scope, not just within your circle.

[The Elephant]

After reading these.....it's Push For Bush and hope for the return of Reagenomics!!!
________
HEALTH STORE (http://herbalhealthshop.com)

[Randi Weingarden]

The union position is simple:

Resident: How much to you need to educate my child?

Teacher: How much do you have?

Resident: My husband and I live sparingly here on LI on his $38,500K salary, but things should be a little bit better since he just got a $500 raise this year, although our share of health benefits costs just went up. I have a part time job at K-Mart paying $8 per hour with no benefits.

Teacher: I don't care about your financial plight, I have a BMW and home in Dix Hills to care for and I need plenty of extra money to spend shopping since I have so much time off. The $60 per hour I make tutoring your child after school because it is more lucrative to teach them in your home than it is to teach them in my school allows me to send my child to private school. I have no health care worries since my share of the cost is just 5% fixed by contract and I get full coverage even after my 15 years tenure on the job provides this retirement benefit. And speaking of tenure, you can't get rid of me, no matter how poorly I do my job.

I don't care how hard your life is, give the raise and your part time pay to me, take out a second mortgage if you need to, but give me more money.

Resident: But, how much more?

Teacher. More!

Moral of the story: There is a better way. It's called Delaware! Good regional jobs in the credit industry and high quality public education at prices that won't make middle-class famillies destitute.

Get out of Long Island and leave the teachers teach each others children....then you will see real reform.

[Iteachyourkids]

You have no facts to prove that teachers are overpaid.
* You failed to mention of NYS wanted to 'borrow" from TRS

If teachers get paid so much how come so many leave for better paying jobs in the private sector?

It's seems to be the trend to attack teachers lately... sad.

How about going after those who really drove up the cost of living on LI. We can take a look at Nassau County.
Republicans under Mondello and Gulotta cooked the books for years. Now that they are losing control of Nassau they are all fleeing to cushy Hemstead Town jobs and to the consultants who work for them.

That's what driving people off LI not teachers.

Take alook at the Board of Regents. Their unfunded mandates have driven up the cost of education too.

Don't get me started.

Without facts you just sound like a 3rd grader who wants to get up first in a kickball game.

[Parent A]

The NYS Bd of Regents is the equivalent to Saddam Hussein's dictatorship type government.They create all the rules/standards and draw the big salaries,while some of the taxpayers are left to toil in near poverty to survive.Their tests have been proven to be both wrong and unfair but they are untouchable.
Has a study been done to see if the changes made by Mills and Band of Moochers have been beneficial?

[whocares]

I was not attacking teachers, I was responding to the teacher's post who complained how bad they have it, my point is you don't have it so bad, as far as the trs, I forgot to mention that NYS "allowed" school districts to borrow monies to pay the increased premiums due, some premiums increased over 300% from 2000-2001 to 2001-2002, NYS was not going to borrow "from" the trs, they were willing to allow districts to strap us with more long term debt to make up for their loss, that was real nice of them to let us pay even more for the mistakes, with finance costs associated with that debt.

[Night Shift]

The first reply to my post was "tell me where" even though we all knew to begin with that it was everywhere. After that was straightened out the fallback position became "So what? We deserve to live better than you do." The point here is that the public sector is sucking us dry here in Nassau and I guess statewide. I don't think anybody here is picking on teachers. The question is "How much is enough? Teachers earn far more than the average taxpayer. Teacher benefits also far exceed those of the average taxpayer. Do teachers need triple? Quadruple? Five times as much? It's a fair question in a discussion of school budgets.



________
Cl200 (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_CL200)

[A Dirty Dreg]

I read this crap out of boredom and truly believe that you all need to get a grip.Yes...they are grossly overpaid administraters and the teachers are very fairly paid,the NYS Board of Regents is so corrupt but what it comes down to is that we have NO choice but to pay.......we don't matter.

[Jokester]

JUNE, JULY, AUGUST

[mcj]

You pay high property taxes to help offset the pay that teachers with tenure receive. On top of that most of our educators and administrators are highly liberal on social issues. Some of these issues are very expensive to tax payers such as educating illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. Many houses that are taxed single family are allowed to have two or more dwellings in them. Taxes remain the same. This has helped to destroy the tax base for school districts all across Long Island. Imagine you put up a small shed in your backyard and your local town government increases your taxes because of it. If you have an accessory apartment erected inside your house making it two separate living areas you are still taxed as if it were a single family house. What a rip off on the law abiding taxpayer. Slumlords can't loose but school districts sure do.
________
Justin Bieber (http://justinbieberfan.info/)

[Night Shift]

Property taxes over $11,000 are not available in your average neighborhood - the places where the people who pay you live. Listen to mcj. You are out of touch.
________
Headshop (http://headshop.net/)

[middleclass]

He pays $11,000 a year in property taxes and as a teacher complains it's too much. As mcj and night shift say hold on there. Let science guy move to neighborhoods were we pay $6,000 a year in property taxes and are still hurting. If school districts were a little more thoughtful on how they spend our money on social and educative programs maybe they would react better to our concerns. Their socialistic view of the world doesn't stop them from taking our money from working people and spending it how they see fit. Science guy could start by asking his town government to start taxing dwellings fairly and going after slumlords. They profit from overpopulation and the law abiding tax payer picks up their tab.:"> :"> :">
________
Vaporizer help (http://vaporizer.org/forum/vaporizer-questions/)

[Fed Up]

Every one who stays home and whines on internet boards instead of going to board meetings, walking petitions, joining the PTA/PTO, getting after trustees or running for school board, deserves to have every last penny sucked from their pocket.

While the teachers drive Beemers, you feed your kids soup out of a can. It's all your own fault and won't change until you all decide to get up and do something.

Have a nice day.
________
aerovette (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Aerovette)

[mcj]

If you don't like the way people spend your tax dollars and always want more of it go down to your local schoolboard and your local town or village board or trustees and say enough. High taxes should not have to be payed ( by single family one dwelling property owners )for services for those who don't pay taxes
( renters ) or for those who profit ( landlords ) who pay to little. School districts across Long Island should petition their local town or village governments on this extremely important issue and demand a reassessment of single family houses who have added extra dwellings.
________
FREE GIFT CARD (http://bestfreegiftcard.com/)

[common sense]

The last two posts were outstanding and on point. Is there hope? Get off your ass and vote in the next school budget vote. Ensure that one of the candidates insists on holding the line with no increases.
________
Medical marijuana doctor (http://mmjp.org)

[Alice]

Just don't get sucked into replacing people who are holding the line with people who won't. Be suspicious of smear campaigns against people on the negotiations team. Tough negotiators are often disliked by teachers unions.
________
LATINJANNE (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/LATINJANNE/)

[movin on]

As one school board member (Whose hubby was a teacher) in North Babylon said once to a senior begging for tax relief...
"If you don't like it....MOVE!"

Ever look in Newsday where the featured house in on the North shore waterfront, is for sale for $5 million and the taxes are $8000?

Then, look in a middle class area where the house is for sale for $250k and the taxes are $7500.

Go Figure!

[movin on]

Join the PTA? LOL! The PTA is nothing but the arm of the Teachers' Union. Parents - TEACHERS - Association.
..and to everyone else who said go to a school board meeting and speak up. You are wasting your time if you go alone. Go in a group and show that you are not just an isolated voice.
However, don't be surprised if your voices are not heard.
The school board is elected with funding from the teacher's union. They take their marching orders from no one else!

[Alice]

People who take the time to vote elect school boards. Sometimes there are candidates that are supported by teachers unions but it's usually pretty easy to find out who they are and you don't have to be dumb enough to vote for them. And just because teachers might hate a certain candidate doesn't make them a good choice either. An educated voter figures this stuff out. If you want lower taxes you have to get tough on teacher pay. The posts on this board are clear. Teachers unions have no qualms about milking the cow dry with their salary demands.
________
FREE PORNO (http://www.fucktube.com/)

[Screw the Taxpayers]

Absent parents. SUV's the size of arizona. McMansions without furniture. Perfect McChildren over scheduled. Impossible demands on Teachers to affirm the perfection of the McChildren. Equal impossible parents with impossible expectations for thier Mcchildren.
War pay is what teachers should get.

[The Elephant]

and no,I am not an educator.What you left out was the lack of administrative support and the senseless circlejerk meetings that are created by self-justifying individuals who love seeing their names in print.
________
Ass Teen (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/165/teen/videos/1)

[Tricky Dick]

I'm keeping Checkers even if I don't have an SUV, McKids or spacious living on my 2 job income to make things meet.

Unfortunately there is not much we can do about teacher pay, leap frogging, and big bucks teachers union lobbying (more cash, less work, more whining). But, we can represent our priorities for what is left over. School Budgets are being created right now. Our chance to have input before it's all set and ready to vote on.

[The Invisible Hand]

Teacher: It's not fair! I have a BA, working on my MA, and yet I don't make as much as a d---d garbage collector who doesn't have even a high school education!

Bystander: Well, then why don't you work as a garbage collector, if you want more money?

Teacher: What, are you kidding? Out in the cold rain and snow in the winter, heat and stink in the summer, handling messy and dangerous crap? Why, you couldn't pay me e-...I mean, you...you...it's not fair!

[so true]

Teachers should re evaluate their self worth as compared to others.

[Teacher]

The debate on pay will go on for ever!

Here is one point of view that we may or may not share!

www.le-monte.co.uk/fairpa...achers.htm
________
buy herbalaire vaporizer (http://vaporizers.net/herbalaire-vaporizer)

[Science Guy]

What about having to deal with gang activity in the buildings? How about little or no support from your Administration? How about having a principal who chooses to hide in his office while allowing dozens of non-students roam building after school? How about having your vehicles keyed and the school district just says tough? I can go on and on but these are just a few of the problems of dear old WW.
________
DiorShow (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/DiorShow/)

[Reality]

I saw on News 12 that Huntington teachers were protesting because they've been without a contract for a few months. Whoop-de-doo. Civil service workers often go for YEARS without a contract, and when they finally get a 4 year contract the raises are usually something like 0-2-2-2. When was the last time any teachers union on Long Island took a 0% raise? L.I. schoolteachers make a damn nice salary...a lot nicer than the average joe on Long Island whose school taxes go up in leaps and bounds every single year to pay those salaries. So when I see teachers protesting I just have to laugh at how spoiled they really are.

[Depot Know]

It is shameful that they stoop to picketing and shaming the district.They were offered 12% for 4 years and no increase in health insurance and turned it down!!!!Worst yet....the 'tenured' teachers forced the newbies to wear their ridiculous shirts and buttons and walk along with them on picketline.Shambles? That's an understatement!

[In Wyandanch where they r]

This school district is only a couple years from Wyandanch.Soon,the district will be known as El South Huntingtino

[more for less]

Well how much are they looking for in salary hikes does anybody know?
In Elwood school district the taxpayers are looking at an increase of almost 15% in taxes for schools.
Now this is before Mediavilla builds hundreds of apartments and houses in a mini city on their property.
Can you imagine what the school taxes will be when that is completed. Town of Huntington is fast becoming
ungovernable and costly to live here.

[The Naked Truth]

They were offered a 4 year 12% contract and turned it down.With their 'step' sytsem each teacher was looking at a 5%-7% increase.Give me half that much with all their perks and I'd be dancing in the streets....Did anyone see there lawn signs asking for a fair conract? How about lawn signs asking for a fair conract for taxpayers?

[hoiii]

how come it is ok with the taxpayers for a teacher to make 100k plus a year working 180 school days (every holiday and summer off) and a police officer working 365 days a year working holidays summers snowy days you name it and when it all comes down to it their taking home around 100k and this is a problem with you tax payers

why is it ok for a teacher to make more than a cop?
________
ROOR BONGS (http://roorbongs.org)

[The Naked Truth]

I am sure if you polled 100 taxpayers,the numbers against BOTH making $100k would be 9 to 1 against.How about your average school district where there are LEAST a dozen administrators who make between $110,000-$160,000.I wish I could retire at 55 and pull in 3/4 of that a year.Can you say county CONSOLIDATION? Why does EVERY school district need a Superintendent? Why does EVERY school district need 3-4 Asst. Superintendents? Never happen.....

[teachers pet]

then one dwelling? It should be investigated. Imagine if teachers to make even more money would rent out part of their house by adding another non taxable dwelling.
Hypocritical elitists are the employees of SHSD.

[No joke]

Who is running as candidates for the South Huntington School District? Two seats are up are they not?

[AV 8TOR]

Probably the same self-serving two that are up for re-election will run unopposed...maybe another hasbeen or two will challenge.It all doesn't matter though.....it is next year's elections that matter most.We need to oust the Kingdom of Terror that King and Queen Kaden have been reigning down on us!!!! We need to find someone to run alongside Barbara Archer and her fresh ideas.

[curious]

Does anyone know what else might be part of the proposed contract by the SHSD? A 12% increase sounds more than fair, if it is the truth. Remember that negotiations are private; only those negotiating really know what is going on. My point is, is that something else must be up for that type of raise to be turned down. Teacher contracts are about much more than an increase in salary. And I completely agree that the current BOE President is destroying the district. Can anyone say personal agenda?
________
White widow seeds (http://marijuanaseeds.org/)

[Silas]

South Huntington School District has been in a decline for over 14 years. Taxpayers in the area are already paying high property taxes for many people who use the schools and government services and don't pay taxes. This has been a boon for many a crooked speculator and landlord but not for anyone else.
Towns policy of putting all low income housing into the school district is also putting a strain on the educational system. We are unfairly singled out to provide affordable housing at any cost to the district population whether their legal citizens or not. That maybe a noble thing to do but then the feds and the state should reimburse the school district for meeting the needs of a growing immigrant population. The taxpayers can't keep doing it alone.

[unregistered]

Ask most private industries & I think you'll find you are mistaken. Utilities followed by debt service,taxes & insurance make up the bulk of budgets. I hope this isn't the "common sense" you're teaching our children.
________
FFM MODEL (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/550/model/videos/1)

[Tax Payer]

How come school districts are not required to show us where the monies from the last year's previous budget were actually spent.They give us the dog and pony show for the upcoming budget vote and after that............
________
303 (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_303)

[Countrywood lover]

Districts are not getting as much as you think.

[Ex Prez]

Actually any person with the time can see where the money all goes. It can be a daunting task. Check who is the Internal claims auditor, appointed by the Board of Education. Their records including warrants and purchase orders should reveal where the money goes. But on average, over 80% of all money goes to salaries.

[whocares]

I have to disagree with your post saying that the bulk of budgets in private industry goes to utilities, debt service and insurance, in any industry that deals with human services the bulk of the budget goes to salaries, i know in some industries that do not require a heavy staff load this may not be true, but in the vast majority of industries it is

[jt]

Give it a break, if you're not complaining about police salaries, now it's teachers...good for them,they have a nice deal...you should of went to school to become a teacher...or cop..people just can't stand to see others make a good salary and live comfortably. Some of those teachers are probably underpaid,having to deal with your punk disrespectful kids everyday....Any teachers out there? You know what i mean.LOL

[herd around]

Today I get a guy yammerin in my ear about how "can you believe that we reached this point when public employees are among the highest paid on LI? And they get their health insurance provided with no premium! And they can keep it all whens they retire!!"

So I start feelin sorry for the guy and I figure I'll let him down easy-like so I say, "Yeah, remember all those kids in school whose dads worked for Grumman? Think about it - while the Mets were winnin their first World Series, Steven's dad was working on the lunar landing and bringin home $100K a year, plus (get this) - MAJOR Medical (remember that?) insurance sos you could go to the doctor when you needed to?" Well he starts in about how I missed the point, etc. so I said, "Fine.
you believe what you want and I'll stay in the fact." So he goes, "but I'm a retired NYc fireman - I should know!"

[FCUNNS]

SCHOOL SPENDING AND TAXES

I HAVE BEEN A HOMEOWNER FOR 23 YEARS AND ON PRINCIPLE WILL NOT EVER VOTE YES. I REFUSE TO VOLUNTARLIY RAISE MY TAXES. ALL THE RHETORIC FROM THE PRO SCHOOLS LOBBY IS NOTHING BUT SELF SERVING BS. THE CHILDREN ARE ALWAYS CARTED OUT AND RAISED ON THE PEDESTAL. ITS ALL ABOUT THEM AND THEIR EDUCATION THEY CLAIM, THE CHILDREN ARE PAWNS USED BY THE SCHOOLS AND THE UNIONS THEY ARE MERELY WINDOW DRESSING TO HIDE BEHIND.
THE REAL PROBLEM IS NOT THE SALARIES AND BENEFITS BUT THE STAFFING PROBLEMS. IN THE EARLY 70s WHEN THE BABY BOOMERS WERE ENDING THEIR RUN IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS THE SCHOOL LOBBY AND THE UNIONS SHIFTED GEARS FROM EMPIRE BUILDING TO EMPIRE MAINTENANCE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN THEIR POWER INFLUENCE AND FUNDING. I'M 53 YEARS OLD WHEN I WAS IN GRAMMAR SCHOOL I ALWAYS HAD 40 KIDS IN EACH CLASS AND IN HIGH SCHOOL I ALWAYS HAD AROUND 40 IN MOST CLASSES. I'M SURE THAT WAS REPRESENTATIVE FOR MOST PEOPLE MY AGE. STARTING IN THE 70s ALL WE HEAR ABOUT IS HOW IMPORTANT CLASS SIZE IS ETC. CLASS SIZE HAS BECOME PART OF THE BARGAINING PROCESS. NOWADAYS CLASS SIZES ARE ALL IN THE 20s AND ALL WE HEAR IS DOOM AND GLOOM IF THEY HAVE TO GO UP A FEW KIDS PER CLASS. MORE SELF SERVING BS. WHATS REALLY AT PLAY IS MORE TEACHER JOBS NOT MORE EDUCATION. MORE TEACHERS EQUALS MORE UNION DUES EQUALS MORE MONEY FOR THE UNION TO LOBBY ALBANY WITH FOR MORE SCHOOL SPENDING AND LAWS WHICH BENEFIT THE SCHOOLS AND UNIONS. IF WE GO ON AUSTERITY ONLY THINGS GET CUT THAT AFFECT STUDENTS AND PARENTS. THATS THE LAW. WELL ALBANY PASSES THE LAWS AND GUESS WHO IS IN BED WITH ALBANY. THE SCHOOL LOBBIES ARE THE LARGEST IN ALBANY. HOW COME SAT SCORES WERE BETTER WHEN WE HAD 40 KIDS IN A CLASS COMPARED TO TODAY? IF YOU WERE A TEACHER WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE SAY 5 CLASSES A DAY WITH 40 KIDS AND 200 PAPERS TO READ AND CORRECT ETC OR 5 CLASSES WITH SAY 20 - 25 KIDS AND 100 - 125 PAPERS ETC. BACK IN THE EARLY 90s I ATTENDED A SCHOOL BOARD MEETING AND FOUND OUT THAT THE STUDENT POPULATION HAD DECREASED TO JUST ABOUT ONE HALF FROM 20 YEARS PRIOR HOWEVER THE STAFFING LEVEL WAS LITERALLY UNCHANGED! IN OTHER WORDS STUDENT TEACHER RATIO WAS ONE HALF WHAT IT WAS OR THE CLASS SIZES WERE HALF. IF STAFFING LEVELS WERE MAINTAINED OVER ALL THESE YEARS THINK HOW MANY FEWER TEACHERS WOULD BE EMPLOYED THE BUDGET WOULD BE 10s OF MILLIONS LESS THAN THE PROPOSED 82 PLUS MILLION. THINK HOW MUCH LESS YOUR SCHOOL TAXES WOULD HAVE BEEN ALL THESE YEARS. EVEN AT PRESENT SALARIES AND BENEFITS THE SAVINGS WOULD HAVE BEEN ENORMOUS AND NOBODY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE BEEN FIRED THEY COULD HAVE JUST ATTRITED DOWN THE WORK FORCE OVER THE YEARS AS THE STUDENT POPULATION DECREASED. BUT THEN THE TEACHERS WOULD HAVE TO GRADE 200 PAPERS. SO JUST COUGH IT UP AND SHUT UP. DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF THINKING THAT THERE IS ONE OUNCE OF SYMPATHY FOR THE BELEAGURED TAXPAYER IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT THEN SELL YOUR DAMN HOUSE AND GET OUT SO WE CAN GET SOMEBODY IN IT WHO CAN PAY THE TAXES. GOT TO KEEP THAT GRAVY TRAIN ROLLING! THEY WILL NEVER HAVE ENOUGH. THIS WILL NEVER END. SUPPORTERS LOVE TO TELL YOU ABOUT HOW THE GREAT SCHOOL SYSTEM IS WHY YOUR PROPERTY VALUES ARE SO HIGH. WELL IF THATS THE CASE HOW MUCH HIGHER MIGHT THEY BE IF TAXES WERE LOWER? THE DAY IS COMING WHEN OUR HOUSES ALL ACROSS LONG ISLAND WILL BE RENDERED TO BE EFFECTIVELY WORTHLESS BECAUSE NOBODY WILL BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO PAY THE TAXES ON THEM. THINK ABOUT THAT THE NEXT TIME THEY SPOUT THE LINE ABOUT THE SCHOOLS GIVING YOUR HOME VALUE. THE ONLY REAL ANSWER IS TO GET OUT OF NEW YORK STATE ALTOGETHER WHILE YOU CAN STILL SELL YOUR HOUSE. VOTE NO.

[Teacher]

I know people think that a teacher's job is 9-3 easy work , many vacations,etc. But people don't realize that we have to have a MA. We have to pay for state tests for certification and there are several. We also have to continue to take courses, in service and out over the years. Our education does not stop when we get our job. We also pay money out of pocket to make our classrooms nice for our students. We try to be creative with school funds, but if we depended only on that money, parents would not like what they would see.
Also, teachers do not work a 9-3 day. We plan at home, we shop for school on our own time, we decorate before and after school, we complete report cards at home, we bake at home for our students, we come back to school for meetings, and conferences, and concerts, and many other activities that the district hosts. We do this because we love our jobs. But at the same time most of us do not make 100K. We do not finish with seven years of undergraduate and graduate work and make heaps of money to help offset our school loans. We are not asking for millions of dollars we are asking people to be fair. Our job does not end when the bell rings at three. Most of us do not live in big homes or drive fancy cars. Most of us live in two income families trying to get by. I don't understand a society that thinks it is wonderful that baseball players and actors make millions of dollars but think the people teaching your children should get nothing. We work hard and we care but we need to survive too.
________
Motorsport (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_Motorsport)

[Working Stiff]

most understand your point of view but it is only the angry that post here and it is only the angry who vote on school budgets also.Do not attempt to explain to the narrow minded here..you will lose.You are paid fair in both salary and benefits and ultimately an excellent retirement plan with health benefits.You,like I ,made the choice of careers but to feel you should get more than COLA in these economic times is wrong.Just look at South Huntington Schools and the comical mess they are in.In my eyes,the teachers look bad,the Superintendent looks really bad and the Board of Education looks like a band of Idiots.Think about it.

[delenndax]

People shouldn't complain about things that they do NOT understand. A gentleman said that he worked in some private place and did not get a pay increase for 3 yrs. Okay, but he didn't give enough information. How is your pay, $25 an hr, more? Yes, you survived and so can other people as well. However, teachers get paid so little as it is. They are stretched so thin as it is and we as a society want more out of them.

Teacher are expected to students with disabilities and "bring them up to speed." An example is this "No Child left Behind Act."

Good teachers only work 185 days a year. Great teachers work more than that. They stay after school to help students grasp the material (w/o it being a requirement). So many teachers come in early to "get ready for the day." Others do so much work in their free time at home making creative lessons plans, as well, various other duties as a teacher. So please don't give me this how teachers shouldn't complain esp. because they only work 185 days a yr. They work so much more than that.

Have you ever seen the bumper stickers that reads: If your can read this thank a teacher? Well you should. They are the ones who teach students how to read, do mathematics, learn about the past (history) and to inspire them for the future.

[Truthsayer]

Administrators, NYS mandates, textbook manufacturers, environmental issues, increased population, illegal multifamily dwellings, a growing ESL population, the disappearing family structure, single parent homes, illegal drugs, our corrupt entertainment industry that floods our kids minds with garbage, the lack of values... etc.
Pick one of those issues... and try to fix it.. then and only then will you be on the road to lower school taxes.

"No Child Left Behind" yet another fraud perpetuated on us by the Bush administration.
________
Love Quotes Forums (http://www.love-help.org/love-quotes/)

[facetime]

After all of the rhetoric you have posted here and on other threads, and a lot of it true, you've finally gone and wrecked it and taken the common denominator - It's Bush's Fault. And lets use pointed words like "ANOTHER FRAUD". Isn't there enough of this type of crap everywhere, where no one can have a difference of opinion, such as in policies without resorting to words inferring criminality or some other form of overly dramatic language. As someone who works daily in a world effected by government policy, I'd suggest you don't know what youre talking about. Congratulations on taking an issue as local as they come and ramping it up to the leader of the free world. I don't agree with some of our presidents policies, but Fraud?
This issue, I suspect, is much like many issues with the far left's constant barrage of trying to ignite passions of a voting majority by using divisive and fiery language. Exmaples such as the FLSA, The Patriot Act, and others come to mind.
I don't know too much about NCLB, but I do know that several states now use the standards directly from the policy. Arizona, for example provides their States schools report cards directly from NCLB standards, and they don't seem to be complaining. Maybe youre just bitter because youre being held more accountable than with NY's previous policies.
If you are an educator, you of all people should know that words mean something. I hope that youre not filling your students heads with this type of language and subjectivity. You wouldn't be teaching my kids very long. A little more reasoned debate would go a long way to get people to hear your side off the story. Up until now, I heard you. Respond anyway you'd like, but you've damaged your credibility.

[facetime]

Some interesting Data.
My research leads me to believe that if you ask the government or many childrens advocates, they mostly support the President' Policy. The Teachers, overwhelmingly are against it. Why? They dont want to be held to a higher standard. Period. It's too bad for you that these policies actually seem to be working.
Article after article from Harvard, States, Education Think tanks, Policy Think Tanks, Law Organizations, etc are for this. the NEA, along with the National and Local Unions are against it.

edworkforce.house.gov/iss...iction.htm

edworkforce.house.gov/iss...b/nclb.htm

[Dems Support NEA]

Keeps pay high and quality teaching low. Also helps to keep teachers in line with left wing aganda which always helps Democrats.

[agenda]

AGENDA

[jc Truth]

I found this on another site, this gives some explanation of what is going on.

Dear Editor:
Attached is my response to the vote on the School Budget for the South Huntington School District which will be voted on by the public on May 18th. I read parts of this report to the audience on April 14th and gave the full document for the record to all school board members and administration. I would like to share my thoughts with your readers in the South Huntington School District.

On the 2004 South Huntington School Budget
One Member’s Thoughts
by Dennis Garetano


There’s an ambiguity in certain decisions we have to make as school board members. Too many times we become part of a decision process which results in real contradictions. We desire one result, but are forced to accept something much less, or many times something quite different. We spend countless hours to protect the taxpayer and make sure they are getting their money’s worth, yet we are encouraged to support and help pass a budget which will, when it passes, increase their burden and possibly force some to leave our community. We want the best and the brightest teachers, we want to show our gratitude to the hardworking teachers and staff, but we must hold the line of spending to protect the community. During the Contract negotiations we are forced to be the adversaries of the same people we trust with our children.

We say we are concerned about our community but our decisions are tempered by property values and what affect the budget will have on those property values……sometimes to the detriment of the parents and children who already reside here. My problem with this process is that property values are only important when you want to sell or refinance your property. The value of your property is even more important when you want to leave the community. If we want to keep our community in tact then why would we want to make decisions on people coming and going? Hence another contradiction, we are promoting a transient society, but we work hard for continuity. We are concerned about the funding of education, but a transient society is exactly why the funding of education is not working under the current system.

We are forced to agree with a flawed process because it is all we have. We are supposed to put children first, but many of the decisions during the budget process have less to do with the children than with what is legal and/or contractual.

We support teachers and fair pay for teachers, but the teachers union’s strangle hold on the politicians in New York State is causing most of the problems we complain about. And our support of the teachers, emotionally and financially, is exactly why their lobbyists and political action committees have become so strong and self serving. A perfect example of this is when the teachers Union asked each teacher to donate $50 to the Cope/Vote program, their political action committee. Simple math will show us that this creates the possibility of providing the political lobbyists with $25,000 from our school district alone. When I received a copy of the memo it became crystal clear that we are nourishing the beast. We are supporting the beast that we are complaining about. Aren’t we helping the creation of financial dominance of our State politicians? Aren’t we helping these politicians do exactly what we don’t want them to do? Will these politicians help the school boards, who volunteer their time to offer our children a better education, simply because we visit with them and discuss the needs of our community or will they help the Teacher’s Union when they get a large check? Something we’re not discussing.

The process in New York State for developing school budgets is at best flawed and at worst ridiculous. While local districts have broad discretion to structure their budget building process, critical information from other government entities necessary for prudent decision making is seldom available when it should be.

We are required to propose a budget, based on certain financial data, when all we can do is guess at what it will be! We must pass a budget in May, when we have no idea what our enrollment will be in September. We must pass a budget in May when the town, the primary taxing authority for property taxes, is not required to set their tax rates and assessed valuation until well after May. We must pass a budget in May, when we have no idea what our income will be from the State (since The State Legislature never passes their budget in April.). Thus, the incongruous timing of various government entities involved in the development of the school budgets compromises the local districts’ abilities to make decisions based on hard financial data.

We seldom talk about the real problems we are faced with for fear of being politically incorrect. For example, we blame increased enrollment on the increase in the cost of education. But that’s only part of it, the rest we leave unsaid. As of February 27th our increase enrollment was 46 students net, as of March 2004 we have less enrollment than last year. We still increase our budget. On September 30th we had 270 new entrants to the schools and 179 of them tested as ESL students, students with higher needs. When we talk about increased enrollment as a driving force for a higher budget and the need for more teachers, we are disguising what we are saying. We are not being honest. What should be said is that the increase in “at risk” enrollment is the problem. We are accepting more students with more needs and hence costing the local taxpayer more per pupil, without the corresponding increase in revenue. Something we never discuss during the budget process.

We are forced to pass a budget knowing that we will have to borrow money to pay for the tax revenue we anticipate.

We are not talking about the costs and benefits of transporting homeless children from as far as Riverhead to South Huntington.

We are not talking about why South Huntington has a tax rate of 165.5 per thousand while Northport’s tax rate is 110 per thousand.

We are not talking about the fact that as of November 18th we had 32 classes at Walt Whitman with an average enrollment fewer than 15 students. Can we afford to continue this?

We are not talking about the fact that it’s less expensive to send a student with special needs to a school in Florida than it is to send that student to BOCES. I thought Boces was designed to save the taxpayer money? We are not talking about the fact that Boces is more expensive to the taxpayer. With the aid available it is less expensive to the school district using the service, but the total inflated charge ultimately costs the taxpayer more.

We are not talking about the fact that the current contract requires proctors to receive $42 per hour, or much more, to work an event or a dance or a school function. We never talk about how this will enhance their retirement package. We never compare these costs to the costs of using a security guard when they receive $13-20 per hour.

We are not talking about the contractual obligations that require us to pay:

The teacher’s union president $90,000 a year to teach two 40 minute classes, take 16 days off a year, and do business for the union during the rest of his or her pay day.

We are not talking about the fact that we are complacent when it comes to paying:
Several Teacher Mentors a stipend of $1800
$900 for scouts for two team sports
5 Technology Mentors $26,500 in stipends
A Go Treasurer $4000
A Language Honor Society advisor $3000
A 12th Grade Class Advisor $5700

And all of the above payments are added to and calculated in retirement pensions: which we are claiming is a mandated expense out of our control. We’re not talking about the fact that these payments will be amended upward once the contract is settled, which is in our control.

We are not talking about the fact that the Teacher’s Center gets a $110,000 grant from NY State, our tax dollars, and is also subsidized by the South Huntington taxpayer. They don’t pay rent, telephone, postage, etc….Yet they can allocate almost $6000 for travel/conference expenses and maintain at least a $60,000 Trust Fund balance.

We’re not talking about the reality that for each in service credit obtained from the teacher’s center, salaries are contractually increased.

So, what am I saying? The Cards are in a deck, and the taxpayer is not invited to the game. As they are shuffled and dealt, we are forced to pay the ante and the winner is neither the children nor their parents.

There are real concerns about tax increases. Some families are living on the edge, and each tax dollar increase will require a corresponding decrease in the family’s budget. The middle class is being squeezed again, and no one can tell how much more they can afford, before they need to leave. A strong middle class has always been the strength of South Huntington, and I am afraid that if we continue on the escalating course of tax upon tax, our community’s strength will crumble.

The consequence of all this is that school districts are left holding the bag. I have come to the conclusion that the real problem lies with the State, not with the local school districts. The problem with the funding of education is also compounded further by the myriad of unfounded mandates imposed by the state and federal governments in which costly requirements are leveled without any accompanying funds to pay for their implementations. It is compounded yet again by the taxation chain which, in much the same way the food chain places one-celled organisms at the bottom, places school districts beneath federal, state, county, and town taxing authorities.

While opposition to a districts budget may arise from legitimate local concerns about the cost of living, and about how the budget was constructed, what it funds or doesn’t fund, (programs, staffing and other kinds of priorities) I believe that opposition should not stem from a frustration with the system put in place by the state and into which local districts have little or no input.

This year’s budget reflects, going forward costs and assessments that amount to a 5.99% increase (salaries, insurance premiums, pension contributions, utilities, and debt service) that are, for the most part, costs of doing business under this process. The only way to absorb these costs is to make comparable cuts in our discretionary spending, (materials and supplies, extra and co curricular activities, programs, and staffing by increasing class size, eliminating field trips, reducing course offerings and extra help). These kinds of cuts directly impact the community we have committed to protect.

The ultimate contradiction of this report is that despite all this information leading one to be opposed to the budget process, and ultimately show their disapproval in a “NO VOTE”, the fact remains that things would probably be worse if the budget was defeated. In South Huntington, even though the cards are stacked against us, the proposal presented is the best we can do. The question I have asked over and over again is “What is my school district doing in its budget building processes to account for the financial burdens being shifted to them by the state system of funding schools?”

Out of an increase in the budget of $6,851,791, $5,694,169 is mandated/legal or contractual increases. Only $1,157,622 or 1.5% of the budget increase is discretionary spending endorsed by the local School Board. Not bad considering all the forces against us…Therefore, there is only one decision I can make for the benefit of the South Huntington Community. My vote is YES.

Dennis A. Garetano
330 Lenox Road
Huntington Station, NY 11746

[facetime]

One thing is for sure, the States process is disgraceful.
S Huntingtons problems aren't necessarily Dix Hills' problems, but the simplest help would be to at least know what to expect from the State.
As stated before, its hard to know who to trust for objectivity when they say "its for the kids", when you know that some of these same elements are lobbying for salary, bennies, etc at the same time.

Or, just blame President Bush, and demand that the entire cabinet resign. That seems to be the extremist attitude du jour.

[Truthsayer]

No Child Left Behind Act is a fraud. A program with mandates without the necessary funding to carry out its goals and objectives.

On the same type of fraud as the Lottery.... goes to fund education. Yeah sure. Want a good paying job driving a truck for Halliburton?

The "attitude du jour" my friend is that the country has been on a downward spiral since January 2004.
________
IPAD ACCESSORIES (http://accesoriesipad.com/)

[Truthsayer]

That link you provided, a Republican source ( surprise surprise!) is a slanted miscontrued attempt to argue a program that will benefit the political right, the textbook and test publishers before it will help children.

Sure it sounds good, accountability, testing, results, blah blah. But the fact remains it will most likely do more harm than good. Unless of course you happen to be a publisher ready to introduce a national curriculum. Pretty soon we all will be teaching and testing from the same books. Same view, same attitudes lockstep with the right wing agenda.

Some interesting comments can be found at these links.

www.spokesmanreview.com/b...4220162323

www.edweek.org/context/to....cfm?id=59

seattletimes.nwsource.com...ean08.html

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2...2216.shtml

www.thenewamerican.com/tn.../child.htm

________
Marijuana vaporizers (http://weedvaporizers.info/)

[Truthsayer]

" Construed" sorry
________
Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[facetime]

This is becoming off topic, but: Thank you for proving my point. We don't have to agree on political points, but don't make any effort to respond to my statement, just do like the rest of the liberal elitist establishment does, dont actually speak on points, lets deflect into the VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY about Haliburton, etc. There are two sides to every story, and I attempted to show one. The site I provided, genius, was not a "Republican" site (Surprise Surprise), but the US Congress site for the Committee on Education and the Work Force, which I'm sure has some democrats on it. It's in BIG LETTERS on the top.

"The Committee is composed of 49 Members of the House of Representatives, 27 Members are from the Republican party and 22 Members are from the Democrat party. The Members are chosen to serve on the Committee by their respective party caucus"

What conclusion should I reach by your little statement concerning truck driving? Is that beneath you? Whats wrong with trying to earn a living as a truck driver? Thomas Hamill drove a truck in Iraq because he wanted to best provide for his family. He didn't post on the internet about how hard his job is or how he deserves more and more money. He spent weeks captured, and heroically escaped, and did it for the ones he loved.
Just sit back here in your little sheltered world and spend your days hiding in a classroom filling young impressionable minds with your single minded rhetoric while the rest of us subsidize your living, protect your freedoms, keep you safe from harm and take the risks you don't have the courage to, and freely criticize those who do. Don't take your head out of your books, and try to create anything constructive. Just spend your days in a room telling us all how we should live.
What downward spiral are you speaking about? You had better get your facts straight. The economy is up, unemployment is down, Consumer spending is up, inflation is low. Salaries are up. Students scores are up, etc.
I may be conservative in my thinking, but I didnt resort to half truths and deflection. At least I don't whine about "Its for the Kids", knowing full well that the budget has a direct result in my wallet.
The facts are out there. I saw state after state speaking on the merits of NCLB. I saw policy papers from Universities praising it. Are there opposing points? Of course. Who's right? Maybe we both are. Or maybe we're both wrong.

Tell me this: If NCLB was so bad, then why did it pass 381-41 in the US Congress? Where was the uprising?

Did you know that President Clinton actually had begun the formulation of the plan to overhaul this system? I guess not.
www.ed.gov/updates/PresEDPlan/index.html

Its your contempt and arrogance for the rest of us little people that will lead to you own intellectual and ideological downfall.
If you can't stand the scrutiny and critique of your field, then you should do the honorable thing and retire.

[facetime]

www.educationnext.org/20034/62.html

Have a magical day.

[Truthsayer]

Quote:The site I provided, genius, was not a "Republican" site (Surprise Surprise), but the US Congress site for the Committee on Education and the Work Force, which I'm sure has some democrats on it. It's in BIG LETTERS on the top.

Really... Then why do you see this...

House GOP Resource Kit...


when you click on the committee's home page?


My truck driving comment was made to bring to your attention that this little war ( rapidly turning into a much larger war) is beneffitting compaies like Halliburton.

Quote:Just sit back here in your little sheltered world and spend your days hiding in a classroom filling young impressionable minds with your single minded rhetoric while the rest of us subsidize your living, protect your freedoms, keep you safe from harm and take the risks you don't have the courage to, and freely criticize those who do.

You protect my freedoms? How... by posting Republican rhetoric at 3 o'clock in the afternoon?

An opinion poll released in December 2003 found that nearly half of school principals and superintendents view the federal legislation as either politically motivated or aimed at undermining public schools. Likewise, a recent study Policy Analysis for California suggests that, because of its requirement to evaluate school progress on the basis of demographic subgroups, the law may disproportionately penalize schools with diverse student populations (Public Agenda, 2003; Policy Analysis for California Education, 2003).

The promise of providing all children with a high-quality education is a noble one. But after looking at the projected costs for 10 states to fulfill the requirements of NCLB, Mr. Mathis fears that the federal government is asking too much and giving too little.www.pdkintl.org/kappan/k0305mat.htm


Never, I think, in the history of federal education policy has the disconnect between policy and practice been so evident, and possibly never so dangerous. What?s particularly strange and ironic is that conservative Republicans control the White House and the House of Representatives, and they sponsored the single largest?and the single most damaging?expansion of federal power over the nation?s education system in history.www.educationnext.org/20021/30.html

That last source is from the same source you just posted.


In brief, as a result of the NCLB Act in NH, it is becoming increasingly clear that local and state
expenditures are being increased, negative impacts are developing for children and citizens, and the
Federal Government is at best weakening (if not defaulting) on its promise to fully fund this
initiative.
smartedu.org/nhsaa/forms/No%20Child%20Left%20Behind/Analysis%20of%20Cost%

Oh I could pull up links all night...

There are some good points to NCLB, however more funding is needed to fully implement its goals and objectives.

By the way... I believe critiques are excellent, except when they are used as a way of promoting a hidden agenda.
________
STARCRAFT 2 BEST REPLAYS (http://screplays.com)

[News Smacks Dot Com]

The White House has agreed to look at changes to the "No Child Left Behind" Act that was drastically underfunded in the Executive Budget Proposal.

Based on the financial undercuts, and the dwindling number of schools and students participating from here on out, the program will now be referred to as
the "No Child's Behind is Left."

[Patty Kakes]

I agree that making over $100,000.00 a year is excessive for a teacher and especially Administrators who are making much, much more than that.

First of all, let me clear up a fallacy about teaching.
The prestige that alot of people think a teacher has is all imagined. It is not real. The reality is that teachers get no respect at all. They are considered Glorified Babysitters who should be paid as such and the Administrators do all they can to maintain the Status Quo.
You must accept this fact and understand it thoroughly for me to go on. Are you ready?
Teachers are at the mercy of Administrators who hold their paychecks right in their hands. Go along or you will be out is the mentality of the administrators. This is why teachers do not speak up about the abuse. We all have bills to pay and a nest egg to build, right! The administrators use this fact to their advantage and bully their way around the educational community. FACT!

Now, about the pay. Money is an incentive in and of itself. So how do you attract and keep good sychophants who will not question the Status Quo?
More Money of course!!! More money will not attract people who are moral and ethical. More money will however, attract greedy people who are more than happy to keep their mouths shut and follow the Status-Quo provided the money is good. (You will not hear of corruption in Early Childhood Education Programs because the money is not there. ECE attracts honest dedicated people who are not in teaching only for the money that is not there.)
Any Questions. Patty Kakes elliot199@hotmail.com

[WANNA KNOW]

ok, i wont knock a teachers salary, however i would like to know what exactly tenure is, and whats the deal with contracts,,,,,,i, like most people get my raise on merit, and keep my job on that also,,,so why, if teachers say they care so much about the kids dont they drop this part,,also, the free healthcare after 55....i can really go on a rant on this one,,,,my sd has a sodded football field with in ground sprinklers,,waste!! admin got caught picking up a prostitite and kept his job,,,,and so on and so on. with taxes being what they are some thing s have to get cut somewhere,,,,oh and im sick of hearing teachers work at home,,,,,id kill to be home at 330 "grading papers" instead of taling the lirr out of nyc

[google]

see this website
www.endteacherabuse.info/...mb/view.pl
and ">www.endteacherabuse.org/ D">
________
NEW JERSEY DISPENSARIES (http://newjersey.dispensaries.org/)

[new year 05]

what is it

[new year 05]

what is it

[Truthsayer1 the original]

ok, i wont knock a teachers salary, however i would like to know what exactly tenure is,
Tenure is meant to protect teachers from dicriminatory actions of the board. It does not mean a life time job. All it does is specify that certain procedures are followed if a school board wanrts to terminate a teacher. Those without tenure may be terminated without cause.

and whats the deal with contracts,,,,,,i, like most people get my raise on merit, and keep my job on that also,,,so why, if teachers say they care so much about the kids dont they drop this part, The problem with this senario is that no one will want to teach the kids with special needs If teachers are judges based on test results. What about all of the other industries that have unions or contracts for their employees? Do you want to get rid of all contacts in the US in all industries?

,also, the free healthcare after 55....i can really go on a rant on this one, Again a negotiated issue in a contract ... many other unions also have this benny. Don't blame teachers.. blame those negotiating for the district.

,,,my sd has a sodded football field with in ground sprinklers,,waste!! I am a sports official.. depends on how heavily that field is used and how successful the program. How many students benefit from a playable field, I've done games on reallt shoddy fields and have seen injuries because of it. Again.. discuss the reasons with your school board. Some districts need a sodded field while some don't.

admin got caught picking up a prostitite and kept his job,,,, I agree-- let's put a big A on this person's chest too

with taxes being what they are some thing s have to get cut somewhere,,,, How about asking the state legislature to do their job, how about having the hundreds of millions that are collected through lotto actually go towards education not just replace funding.

oh and im sick of hearing teachers work at home,,,,,id kill to be home at 330 "grading papers" instead of taling the lirr out ofnyc If that's how you really feel.. then do it! I had my own business for 20 years before I became a teacher at the age of 46! It's never too late.

[brs]

my sd has a sodded football field with in ground sprinklers,,waste!
In my school district this is also the case. Many complained that it was tax dollars being wasted when in reality it was paid for by local community groups and fundraising.

[Conan]

There are people who do not care who pays for the extra stuff the kids have. They just don't want the kids to have extras even if it doesn't cost them a penny. And then there are the people who only want to accept gifts from the "right" sources. "I don't like you so I'd rather do without than take your stuff." And then there are the worst of all - the people who take the stuff for free, know they got it for free, and claim that they had to somehow pay for it anyway. So often the politics forget about the kids.

[eyewitness]

I know people think that a teacher's job is 9-3 easy work , many vacations,etc. But people don't realize that we have to have a MA. We have to pay for state tests for certification and there are several. We also have to continue to take courses, in service and out over the years. Our education does not stop when we get our job. We also pay money out of pocket to make our classrooms nice for our students. We try to be creative with school funds, but if we depended only on that money, parents would not like what they would see.
Also, teachers do not work a 9-3 day. We plan at home, we shop for school on our own time, we decorate before and after school, we complete report cards at home, we bake at home for our students, we come back to school for meetings, and conferences, and concerts, and many other activities that the district hosts. We do this because we love our jobs. But at the same time most of us do not make 100K. We do not finish with seven years of undergraduate and graduate work and make heaps of money to help offset our school loans. We are not asking for millions of dollars we are asking people to be fair. Our job does not end when the bell rings at three. Most of us do not live in big homes or drive fancy cars. Most of us live in two income families trying to get by. I don't understand a society that thinks it is wonderful that baseball players and actors make millions of dollars but think the people teaching your children should get nothing. We work hard and we care but we need to survive too.

I don't think you realize that there are thousands of people out there with MAs who cannot find a job paying more than 12 bucks an hour.

I've been through 2 different public school districts and I can assure you, not too many teachers are digging into their own pockets to decorate their classrooms. And those who are do seem to not only enjoy it, but in retrospect, did it for their own comfort and satisfaction, not the student.

Maintaining your professional certifications is part of the job. You're not entitled to time off or additional income just because your profession involves recurring expenses. Lifeguards aren't paid to re-certify. Pilots aren't paid to get a yearly physical.

Nowhere in your job description does it say you have to bake for your students. You're not doing that for them, you're doing that to feel good about yourself, or to make your students like you better so they tell their parents what a good job you're doing and how much they like you.

I know there are teachers who do not work a 9-3 day. Most of them are grading term papers or have to read 125 essays they assigned the week before. But what about the elementary school art teacher? Do you think SHE is going home and pouring over finger paintings? How about the middle school librarian? Is she spending countless hours deciding on new and better ways to say SHHHHH!? How about elementary and middle school, and even high school phys-ed teachers? Especially the ones not involved in any after-school team sports. What do you think they do before and after normal school hours? Squat-thrusts?

[eyewitness]

Ask most private industries & I think you'll find you are mistaken. Utilities followed by debt service,taxes & insurance make up the bulk of budgets. I hope this isn't the "common sense" you're teaching our children.

Now hold on a second... what kind of business are you referring to?

Payroll and fringes make up the bulk in most private industry, unless of course, you own a chain of dollar stores, hire H1-B visa immigrants because you can't seem to find and American who'll work for 12 hours a day 7 days a week for less than minimum wage, take lunch and breaks behind a register, and live in your illegally converted dorm dwelling while paying you rent.

[eyewitness]

You have no facts to prove that teachers are overpaid.
* You failed to mention of NYS wanted to 'borrow" from TRS

If teachers get paid so much how come so many leave for better paying jobs in the private sector?

It's seems to be the trend to attack teachers lately... sad.

How about going after those who really drove up the cost of living on LI. We can take a look at Nassau County.
Republicans under Mondello and Gulotta cooked the books for years. Now that they are losing control of Nassau they are all fleeing to cushy Hemstead Town jobs and to the consultants who work for them.

That's what driving people off LI not teachers.

Take alook at the Board of Regents. Their unfunded mandates have driven up the cost of education too.

Don't get me started.

Without facts you just sound like a 3rd grader who wants to get up first in a kickball game.

- The fact that some teachers might leave for better paying private sector jobs does not come close to proving that teachers are underpaid. Many people leave a career if or when something better paying, or for other reasons comes along.

- There aren't too many people who are going to claim they're overpaid or paid just right. MOST people think they're underpaid. Because we all want more. That's just human nature.

You have to admit that when a teaching position opens up and the district receives 750 applications, that it's clear that supply/demand economics is not being employed to determine what the free market would, if permitted, pay public school teachers.

- Even though the Nassau GOP has really done a number on Nassau's finances, school taxes still account for the bulk of a property tax bill.

[eyewitness]

What district are you talking about? Perhaps I could apply there. I happen to work in a district that is one of the lowest paid on LI with very high test scores.


Last municipal contract I saw was for 5% each year for 3 years. Average teacher contract was 3.5% each year.

Did you know that attorneys employed by sewer districts, water authorities, towns, villages, county etc. charge $250-$400/hour? How about going after that waste of government money.

How about no-show jobs in the towns? Plenty of patronage with many feeding out of the public trough. All I am saying is that if you are going to complain about teacher salary be prepared to go after everyone else too.
Teachers are at the bottom of the list.

Why do you think teachers should be at the bottom of the list? School taxes, largely teacher's salaries and fringes accounts for 60-80% of the average property tax. Eliminating the no-show pigs at the town and county trough might save one-half of a percent of only 20-40% of my property tax bill. But If I could prevent my district teachers from getting another 4%-4%-4% increase on top of an already automatic increase they're going to get anyway for their "longevitity" in the district, that'll save me hundreds of dollars per month.

What it boils down to, would you focus on saving 10% of your 5.00 lunch bill, or would you rather focus on saving 5% of your 50.00 dinner tab?

[eyewitness]

Of course teacher's pay is the largest item in a school budget. Shouldn't it be?

Personnel is the largest item in any budget(in Public or private industry). Most teachers only want a salary that they can survive ,that will provide an opportunity to take care of our families and that we can put a little away for emergencies and retirement. That's not asking for too much is it.

Unfortunately teachers have become an easy target. You should be complaining about $9-$10 movie prices, $7 tolls, Nassau County taxes, sanitation district rip offs, over development of NC.. oh I can ramble on !

We spend more time with your kids than anyone else. Why? Because most of us know that our (the Nation) future depends on us.
We can make a lot more in the private sector. That's a fact.

Why do teachers claim they can make much more in the private sector, when so many in the private sector, even those who have similar degrees, do not come close?

Sure, it's possible that some teachers could earn more in the private sector, but certianly not every teacher.

There aren't too many people who are going to claim they're overpaid or paid just right. MOST people think they're underpaid. Because we all want more. That's just human nature.

You are correct! Don't forget to add that any person that makes more money is considered overpaid! (Human Nature, too)



How about the middle school librarian? Is she spending countless hours deciding on new and better ways to say SHHHHH!?

I'm still laughing at this one!

shhhh

[Kitty Katz]

Cat got your tongue?

[Professor Mike]

Teachers claim they can make more in the private sector because they can't face the truth. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth.

[Private Eyes]

My friend left to work as a teacher but she came back with a pay cut. Why? No work ethic among her colleagues.

[the moon]

the most pay for the kids

[the sky]

we work so hard :cry:

This came from an earlier post: " I know people think that a teacher's job is 9-3 easy work , many vacations,etc. But people don't realize that we have to have a MA. We have to pay for state tests for certification and there are several. We also have to continue to take courses, in service and out over the years. Our education does not stop when we get our job. We also pay money out of pocket to make our classrooms nice for our students. We try to be creative with school funds, but if we depended only on that money, parents would not like what they would see.
Also, teachers do not work a 9-3 day. We plan at home, we shop for school on our own time, we decorate before and after school, we complete report cards at home, we bake at home for our students, we come back to school for meetings, and conferences, and concerts, and many other activities that the district hosts. We do this because we love our jobs. But at the same time most of us do not make 100K. We do not finish with seven years of undergraduate and graduate work and make heaps of money to help offset our school loans. We are not asking for millions of dollars we are asking people to be fair. Our job does not end when the bell rings at three. Most of us do not live in big homes or drive fancy cars. Most of us live in two income families trying to get by. I don't understand a society that thinks it is wonderful that baseball players and actors make millions of dollars but think the people teaching your children should get nothing. We work hard and we care but we need to survive too. "

Well, the second to last sentence is what makes people so damn angry about how some teachers think. The post above compares actors and baseball players salaries to teachers' salaries. But the part that gets to me is the reference that teachers earn "nothing". Teachers do very, very well after taking into consideration salaries and benefits. My button gets pressed every time I hear a teacher complain about the amount of work they have to perform to earn that salary and those benefits.

As a group, I think teachers, for whatever reason, are frequently nothing more than a bunch of complainers. Non-teachers then get upset and begin to expound about how "good" teachers have it and then teachers begin listing the things they have to put up with, as a defense for their position. But, all this crap USUALLY starts from hearing nothing but complaints from teachers. they should only know the real world. my spouse is a teacher and 99.9% of the time all I hear about is the crap going on between teachers with one another, between teacher's aides and teachers, between regular teachers and special ed teachers, between teachers and administrators, between the teachers union and administrators, between teachers and parents. Every once in a while I actually get to hear something about the students.

And, as with the above post that I copied and pasted, why can't I shake the feeling that that poster actually thinks that teachers should be the ones making those millions, when in fact NO ONE should be making those millions unless you are the CEO of something. How else do you explain the reference to teachers making "nothing?

It is incredible. Teachers, as a group, are so self-absorbed that they almost NEVER objectively compare how they are doing in the way of salaries and bennies, to the VAST MAJORITY OF THE REST OF THE WORLD, even taking into consideration the professional sector.

What is it about the teaching sector that can apparently take a "regular" person and convert them to the sterotype teacher???What is it about a teacher that makes it almost their duty to complain about taking work home? What is it about a teacher that rather than appreciating and ACKNOWLEDGING how wonderful their vacation and holiday days are, they cop the attitude that they've got it coming to them and what's the big deal? They don't focus on the good things that come their way but they certainly are experts on focusing on the abuse they say they always have to face.

[Tenured4life]

Teaching is a trap. A civil service comfort zone with lifetime guarentees. When the thrill of seeing young people succeed expires, only the special ones move on.

If only they knew how tough it is on the out side. I know, I came from there. At 50 I have a great job in a great district but am still looking at a number of years before I can retire.

We are not like cops and firemen that pass away 2 years after retirement. Yet we start counting the days from 1000. (about 3 years) FAS. I hope that I never fall into the teaching trap. I hope I can still appreciate the gift I have received and that I continue to make a difference. :)

[Paddy O'Average]

[ I hope that I never fall into the teaching trap. I hope I can still appreciate the gift I have received and that I continue to make a difference. ]

HA! If you're a teacher...I'm a well-endowed Irishman!

[tiredof it]

I'm so tired of this sad shit. If you think teachers have it so great and it's such a gravy train..you go to school for 4yrs at 15-20,000 A year and just grab the fistfuls of money. You complain about the salaries because YOU CAN. You can't say shit about the accountant that starts at 50,000 a year, the plumbers or electricians charging you 100 an hour or mechanic at the dealer at 150 hr. This you feel you can bitch at because, you went to school and can't see how hard it is.
Babysitters for 30 kids at $5hr would get $150/hr. Lets see, can you add???Multiply maybe.... that's 900/day (they only work 6 hrs)at 180 days =162,000
a year. at babysitting rates. No one told you not to go to school.top whining.

[Daily Lesson]

Excuse me Tiredof it...........don't stoop to the very few here who post negatively about teachers.They are for the most part your 'average loafy fat kid who was always picked last in gym yet picked on first in cafeteria because he always dropped his tray and we all clapped' nerd.When he logs off he runs upstairs and rubs one out while staring at a picture of Susan Dey and the best is...now he can moan because his 80 year old mother can't hear anymore.

[chiming in 2]

First and foremost, your peers must be so proud of you, Daily Lesson. Your disgusting post is not worth responding to. As for Tired of It, I have been a professional for thirty years, I'm at six figures, went to college, Masters, etc. so I don't need to be lectured. My entire point is not whether teachers are "worth it". It's that I don't normally see plumbers, electricians, etc. complaining about their salaries or hours because they recognize they have it good. With some (most?) teachers, DESPITE their salaries and incredible benefits (when compared to even the professional sector), they have the uncanny knack of finding reasons to complain about anything they deem is unfair about the amount of work they have to deal with. THAT'S THE MAIN MESSAGE I'M TRYING TO MAKE. The only other "message", which is TOTALLY UNRELATED TO SALARY, is when teachers expound ad nauseum about how important their roles are in a child's development (I couldn't agree more), and then fail to do anything at all at the union level to address incompetency in their ranks, forcing districts to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in an attempt to get rid of someone who never should have chosen teaching as a profession in the first place. "Daily Lesson" comes to mind....how comforting to know that this clown, with that way of thinking, is in a classroom with our children.

[yes tell me]

tell me no b/s :oops:

they not only want the cow and the milk but he barn and the place the cow sleeps and the its skin to make leather jackets.

Here we go, oil bill too high? Gas too much? Let's beat up teachers!!!Yeah!!! Puleeze.

[teacher smeacher]

FAIR PAY!? THEY WANT EVERYTHING, AND DON'T WANT TO CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING. AND THEY GET AWAY WITH IT YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR.

ask freed how to solve the problem he is a genious....just ask him

yes i agree he told me that the other day

Fair Pay

I think it would be fair to expect a salary that will allow teachers to remain on Long Island.