SUFFOLK LEGISLATURE TABLES TAKOVER OF VOL AMBS....

[WHAT YA THINK]

News 12 ran a short spot today on the Suffolk County Legislatures tabling of a bid for a hostile take over Suffolk County volunteer EMS and convert to a Police paid system as Nassau County has... thoughts people??

[6thLD Firemt]

Who was at this meeting? What exactly was said?, What other Legislators backed him up? Knowing the county they'll wait four months to post the minutes online.
Bishop has no idea what we as responders are doing, are up against or are busting our butts trying to improve.
All he does is sit up there at meetings lean back in his chair and mumble under his breath about anything everyone talks about.
Spend a few of your off days riding with the system, and then maybe you'll open your eyes, but thankfully we have you for only 12 more months:">

[I THINK YA WRONG]

.....Says nothing about a "hostile takeover"
Even if they COULD it wouldnt happen....
Our politicians THINK they are the ALMIGHTY. They in NOWAY have the AUTHORITY to "take over" individually run services.


"Ambulance reporting plan criticized"

BY EMI ENDO
STAFF WRITER

December 1, 2004

Top officials from several Suffolk volunteer emergency response organizations argued Tuesday that it would cost too much for them to comply with a county proposal to report ambulance response times.

During a heated debate at the Suffolk Legislature, critics said the bill would require emergency workers to focus more on paperwork, lower the quality of patient care and result in higher property taxes for county residents.
Drew Silverman, president of the Suffolk County Ambulance Chiefs' Association, called the bill an unnecessary, "unfunded mandate" and said agencies were already "overworked and understaffed." He added that the state Health Department already collected most of the information being sought under the proposal.

But Legis. David Bishop (D-West Babylon), sponsor of the bill requiring emergency responders to compile more detailed information on response times, said "You cannot govern if you don't know what's going on." Indeed, Bishop and other supporters of the legislation said such data is crucial to improving emergency services.

After two hours of testimony in Hauppauge, the public safety committee tabled the resolution. But committee chairwoman Legis. Angie Carpenter (R-West Islip) said she would call a special meeting to continue deliberations.

The latest version of Bishop's resolution requires that EMS agencies keep track of several specific times, from the dispatch until the ambulance arrival at the hospital. It also calls for the agencies to report comprehensive data to the Suffolk EMS medical director every year.

Agencies that fail to comply would lose county-funded insurance coverage, while those that comply would get an increase from the current $1 million in liability insurance to $2 million.

Several officials representing East End towns -- where emergency workers must cover large geographic areas and contend with traffic and tourists at barrier beaches -- spoke out against the measure.

"If you want data, we'll give you data. You're going to do something with it, that's our concern," said East Hampton Town councilwoman Pat Mansir.

The original version of the bill would have penalized agencies if they did not meet the minimum response time of nine minutes, 90 percent of the time. Many emergency service volunteers, especially on the East End, called that goal unrealistic.
Subscribe to Newsday home delivery


Copyright © 2004, Newsday, Inc.

[Fire Guy]

Let's call Dave Bishop and have him pick up any county property by December 15th and have him start his EMS system that day.

I like the fire end of the service, anyway.

By the way-where does he live and how is his community dealing with the EMS problem?

[WFD445]

Good Article except for "Subscribe to Newsday home delivery"

[scpd patrol]

I would like to express my thanks and gratitude to all who volunteer their time and effort in service to their community. I see your professional work and dedication every time I'm at work.

The issue of response times is very important. I recently worked a midnight where 3 10-9's (our code for severe aided case) went off within 30 minutes of each other. All were legitimate (chest pain/trouble breathing). It took some time for crews to respond. Thankfully, none of the people "coded".

I think that Suffolk County should look to pay volunteer crews. I believe that respective ambulance companies and fire dept. rescue squads should look to hire within their agencies. I'm not knocking any of the volunteers who do this out of dedication, but the system cannot handle things as they are. Early morning and daytime hours seem to be the times where a paid crew would be needed. I think the North Shore Program in Islip Town is a step in the right direction, but they do not show up in ambulances and sometimes have to wait like we do.

[scpd patrol]

I just want to thank all of you again for your help and service. It is appreciated!!

[suprised555]

This thread was apparently started by someone with no knowledge of the hearing who just wants to hear himself ramble on.

The issue was that some legislators want EMS agencies and dispatch agencies to report what their response time are. Suprising FRES, as represented by Dave Fischler, stated that they could not produce any response times. Now we all know that FRES keeps these times for the agencies that they dispatch. Whether they actually do any statistical analysis of the times is unknown but for Fischer to claim that the times are not available is misleading.

A Southampton town supervisor, in her infinite wisdom, stated that the times could be produced but she was afraid of what would be done with them.

The system can only improve if we know what the issues are. If anyone is afraid to put forth their response times then they obviously have something to be afraid of. If your response time is 5 minutes or 20 minutes the residents have a right to know. Not knowing the data is a scary thought.

[6thLD Firemt]

Doesnt FireCom and MedCom log the activation, response and on scene times when they are notified?
If not why do we bother calling them.
Fischler, by the way will be gone withing a month, maybe he is throwing it all in the new guys lap.

[WHAT YA THINK]

This thread was started to get feed back about the News 12 spot. Not to hear myself ramble on. Just look how is has wandered off the subject into a Newsday article and more. No rambling from me, just a question for those in volunteer EMS to respond. let's keep it straight and simple without bashing. Thanks.

[6thLD Firemt]

Where do you think News 12 got the story from? Newsday or vice versa. I doubt very much the topic of discussion was a hostile takeover of the current system ala Nassau Police as you posted.
And just to clarify, it was not a Legisluture meeting, it was Public Safety Committee meeting. Next Tuesday is the full Legislature Meeting and would be a good opertunity to let them all know how we feel.

[FireDude]

Good to see Rose doing the newscast these past couple days.
News12 never gives enough time for a story to get the full effect. Their 10 second headline reading leaves alot to be desired.
They read the opening paragraph of newsday stories anyway. Their editorial and newswriting su..s
But I'll watch for Rose Wallia and Heather Holmes...LOL

[paid]

"Early morning and daytime hours seem to be the times where a paid crew would be needed"

Yes, you are correct. However for information's sake (if you are not already aware of this), certain EMS agencies have had paid crews for over 3 years now, and many more have jumped on board with augmenting their Volunteer Staff with paid personnel/responders. So that step has been taken, but as some of my erstwhile colleagues wouls say it's just sticking your finger in the hole in the dam. Further action does need to be taken in regards to the overall situation with EMSresponse (and I'm sure Firematically there's an issue, but I don't know enough about the current state of the Fire Service to comment on that).

I would however like to thank you for the kind words and praise for the Volunteers who come out and do the right thing every day. It is appreciated, I'm sure by us all.

Omar-Fara B. Norgaisse, EMT-P

[scpd patrol]

I agree with having paid EMT's and medics. I think that it should not fall under the umbrella of the SCPD though. i thinkthat SC Firematic operations are much more familiar with the situation.

[4me2no2]

Leg Bishop's bill only seems to want to penalize and really not find solutions. We have a volunteer system because it is economically better for the residents of this County with the current state of the over burden taxes we now pay. Being it is primarily a volunteer system maybe the need to offer incentives vs penalties to help the volunteers and not bash them would be a better avenue to take. Incentives like offering grant money or assistance to supply paid personnel during ruff hours when most of us work. Better yet possibly evolving a system that would pay each volunteer a stipend for each call they rode and not even have to deal with full time paid employees.

Just some food for thought.

[WFD445]

Paid volunteers? Isn't that an Oxymoron?

[Blue collar]

........Here's your sign.............

[4me2no2]

yep it is, but we are looking for solutions and a partial incentive for riding is a lot better off then having to pay out a full pay check with benifits etc.
Plus isn't LOSAP a form of payment? Take your sign and stick it!

[duh]

First off all the response times are on a P.C.R. So all that each agency has to do is fax it to medcom and they enter it into a computer. That way a report can be printed every month and it will show response times by district. And it will show the problem times and problem areas. Those areas are the one's that need to be addressed. Also all the game playing with a crew is on the way in, after you bang the call out 3 to 4 times will stop. The answers to these problems are right in front of our faces. The Legislature have no idea what happens when a person calls for an ambulance in Suffolk County. By sticking their noses into this they are going to push away dedicated members, and also for the areas that are working, have good response times, it is going to be unfair to them.

A paid system is not the answer for all of Suffolk county. Plain and simple it can't be done. What needs to happen is to join districts together and utilize the members that belong to the ems part of the fire service.

For example : If there is a call for ems at Rt347 & Terry road in Smithtown. Bang out Smithtown FD and the next closest EMS agency. ( Nesconset FD) see who gets out first. If the call is at Rt111 & rt 25 bang out Smithtown and then St James.

It works in Nassau county with Williston park & Albertson. The Greatnecks also use this system . The answers are there, it's just some commissioners and Chiefs aren't trying to solve the issues......

[WFD445]

Very good. I try to lighten up the mood and you get insulting. But then I forgot where I was. Sorry. LOSAP is a form of payment, if you live to get it. I didn't ask for. I was here long before LOSAP. And yes I'm still active. Offer a "stipend" and I would turn it down. Call it what you want, it's pay.

[DavisDem]

Listen, we all know there are problem times and problem districts out there. REMSCO knows this too, but they arent dealing with the problem correctly.
I agree with Duh. The legislators really do not know whats going on out there. they only get the calls about the badtimes. We all need to talk to our Legislators, some are very good listeners, Peter O'Leary, Brian Foley, Dan LosQuadro, Joe Caracappa, Angie Carpenter, Jon Cooper, maybe some one on one discussion will help.
I dont believe they are out to destroy us, but making threats against is as one Legislator seems to like to do is certainly not the answer.
Yes we record times on the PCR's, does anyone check them? Is there anyone available to transcribe these?
The Dispatchers are keeping track of the times, or do those scrap of papers get thrown in the trash?
Combing mutual aid activation is a great idea, but will that go against lets say Nesconset, if Smithtown gets out will Nesconset get a "no response" red mark?
We all have great pride in what we do and many do not take to change very well, but if it benefits the public lets do it, but lets not get backed to a wall by some over zealous Babylon Legislator and not come out swinging before we speak to our own elected officials.
By the way pay per call and voulnteer FDs are all over the country, even a couple here on L.I. I understand.

[duh duh]

The reason willy park responds with albertson is because albertson does not have an ambulance. In great neck vigilants run the ambulance and alerts respond to aided in their district. get your facts straight.

[Vengeful Medic]

Sigh..just when I was starting to like you......

EMS would work much better as a stand alone service...not "Under" any other service. For far too long people have been putting EMS under someone else....and not much progress has been made there. As someone else said in another thread here, "leave EMS on it's own, and watch it go!!"

Omar-Fara B. Norgaisse, EMT-P

[EMT FD]

I CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENT THAT THE REMSCO PROTOCOL ISNT THE END ALL, BUT LETS LOOK AT SOME FACTS HERE THAT BROUGHT THESE RECCOMENDATIONS TO A PROTOCOL. AFTER COUNTLESS AMOUNTS OF MEETINGS(SO I HEAR), AND 1 1/2 YEARS THE RECCOMENDATIONS WERE ON THE TABLE , DO YOU KNOW WHAT WAS DONE? NADDA...
THE RESPONSE TIMES THAT WERE RESEARCHED AND TABULATED CAME FROM PCRS AND CORPS. IF ANY ONE THINKS THAT RESPONSE TIMES IN THE COUNTY WERE GOOD AT THE TIME,THEY DONT HAVE THEIR EYES OPEN. (EXCEPT A FEW SUCH AS PROBABLY HUNTINGTON). OK..NOW AFTER ALL THIS INFORMATION WS PUT OUT THERE ,,..KNOW WHAT EVERYONE DID?? NADDA ALL SAID WE DONT HAVE TO ABIDE BY RECCOMENDATIONS....SO THEY THEN HAD TO MAKE THEM PROTOCOLS, WITH A 1 YEAR PHASE IN..GUESS WHATS HAPPENING NOW? DEPARTMENTS AND CORPS(NOT ALL BUT SOME) ARE NOW WORKING HARDER, TOGETHER TO COME TO A RESOLUTION. AND SO FAR PRETTY SUCCESSFUL(WITH RESPONSE TIMES) FROM WHAT I HEAR. (I DONT GET TOO INVOLVED IN THESE POLITICS) AND MOST HAVE GONE TO A DUTY CREW(24 HRS) WHICH I MAY ADD COSTS NOTHING AND SATISFIES THE PROTOCOL(CREW CONFIRMATION). NOW, HAS A BETTER SOLUTION BEEN PRESENTED TO DATE? NO...AT LEAST I HAVENT HEARD OF ONE.FROM THOSE DISAGREEING WITH IT.
NOW IN RELATION TO THE LEGISLATION...THE PSAPS AND FRES .RECORD THE DATA OF EACH CALL.? OR AT LEAST I THOUGHT THEY DID. SO IN ORDER TO GET THE TRUE TIMES , REMSCO IS ASKING FOR THE RX TIMES FROM PSAPS AND FRES...IN ORDER TO GET THE CORRECT DATA AS THE TIMES ON PCRS ARE NOT ALWAYS ACCURATE, OR AT LEAST THATS WHTS BEEN TOLD TO ME.AND IF THEY ARENOT(THE TIMES ACCURRATE ) THIS WOULD BE A BETTER WAY TO OBSERVE THE RESPONSE OF EMS.
JUST FOR THE RECORD THE LEGISLATURE HAS A SEAT ON REMSCO, MS CARPENTER IS THE REPRESENTATIVE, BUT THE 1-2 MEETINGS THAT I HAVE BEEN TO IN THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF, I HAVENT SEEN HER OR A REPRESENTATIVE IN ATTENDANCE, NOR HEARD A COMMENT FROM HER.YET I HAVE SEEN OTHER LEGIS . AIDES AT THESE MEETINGS.
IM SURE THE PROTOCOLS ARENT THE GREATEST FIX IN THE WORLD, BUT IF THE DATA COLLECTED AND RESEARCHED MAYBE A SOLUTION CAN COME IN THE FUTURE, OR AR LEAST MAKE ANOTHER SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM, NOT JUST SAY" I DONT LIKE THESE".

[DavisDem]

We're basically saying the same thing, Angie carpenter has been very good to the fire service, so has I understand Joe Caracappa. The Legislators need to be better informed I guess, and not just take the word from REMSCO and FRES.
One bad call erases 100 good calls. Theres the nature of the beast. before everyone starts I know there are a lot of bad response times and even one should not be tolerated, but comparatively we aren't that bad

[X EMT]

Stop using caps, makes your message too hard to read. I gave up after the second sentence.

[AnnTena]

"leave EMS on it's own, and watch it go!!"

You see some of the threads on here for Ambulance Corps. There's a sample.

[ltjag]

I know I'm over here in Long Beach, about as far away from Suffolk as one can be without leaving Nassau, but this thread begs comment. It seems that there is a recurring notion that the legislature out that way needs to be "better informed". Isn't that the essence of what this whole thing is about? It seems to me that what is being proposed is basically a system for better tracking the response capabilities of the present system. What's wrong with that? If you don't think that the data gathered will reflect well upon your department's response, than shouldn't you be focused on improving performance rather than attacking their effort to quantify and analyze the service that is currently being provided? There is something wrong when an entity is fighting to be able continue resisting implementing an accountability system. If there is a problem with the system (and there is), then there should be some sort of clearing house for compiling information so that problems can be identified and, where possible, corrective action taken. Can anyone really be opposed to such a scenario? On what basis?

[Youjusthadto]

It's pretty much none of your business. Worry about Nassau (and yourself)

[Crainaugh]

Hey, Omar...don't usually disagree with you but gotta say, at least in the 'Danch, EMS duzn't belong out on its own...look at what we're wasting in duplication. We both pay central 90 large, two phone systems, two insurance systems, two buildings etc. Between us (1 million) ad the fire co (1.6 mill ) do we really get our money's worth for 12000 people in four square miles? You and I both know the answer to that. Comes out to $215.00 per person. Guess what? divide FDNY's budget by the city's population and you get a smaller #. Whoops! One of the things that the data bill will generate is an answer to this question. with the data we have now, you cannot prove one way or another whether you're better off in our bus or a transit bus going to the hospital. we've been working on intuition for too long out here, going by what 'everybody knows' without being able to back up a word we say. In many cases, I understand the resistance to releasing the data. we know what it says. we don't want anybody else to.
Angie came to one REMSCO meeting. About three quarters of the way thru, she left in disgust. Hasn't been back since. At times, can't blame her.
Oh, well
Peace,
Obewan

[Vengeful Medic]

Obewan....

You and i both know that the 'Danch is not a good example to use at this point. And I believe that there may be a few more districts that fit the same bill. However, if we look elsewhere in this great country of ours, it is quite apparent how you have EMS agencies that have been "left alone", and have done quite well. I think that some areas in Northern California show us some very good examples of a working system (not perfect, but working). Now I know what you folks may be thinking, "That's in Northern California, not here!!". And that's the defeatist attitude that's part of the problem with EMS here back at home base. We need to step out of the box that we have been forced (for the most part) to work in and see what else is there. I haven't exactly seen EMS flourish under FDNY, PDCN or any firematic agency around these here parts. But on the same token, EMS agencies are not making a good name for themselves around here if people don't get a grip and stop thinking about themselves. The mission needs to start coming first, and it needs to start coming first, RIGHT NOW. Stop putting "popular" people in charge of your agencies, and start putting competent people in charge. <----- I know I'm spitting into the wind with this last statement, but it's the painful and simple truth.

As far as the figures go.....well, figures never really lie now do they? If you suck....well....you suck. The point is to realize that there is an issue and fix it as best as you can....not reach for another tissue as you cry and bemoan how these figures don't show exactly what's going on, or take into account this, that, or the other.

And AnnTena...well, I think my statement responds to you, as well. Have a day folks...

*Disclaimer: This response is not personal in nature. But if anyone would like to take it personally....I'm right here.


Omar-Fara B. Norgaisse, EMT-P

[AnnTena]

Thank You - it's nice to be agreed with on here for a change.

[Crainaugh]

As things stand here in potatoland, (or should that be potatoeland?), we can't accomplish ANYTHING without turning it into a High Mass...In all honesty, Omar, I'm sick and tired of all the drama, posturing and lies..."All the data you want is on the PCR's..." a quote from a doomsayer at the Public Safety Committee hearing Tues. before last..."All the data on the PCR's is flawed..."letter to the Public Safety Committee from the same guy in 2003...how do we make progress with people like that representing 4,999 of us? (he duzzn't represent me...) You want EMS standing alone with people like that at the helm? I'm sick and tired of fighting for every inch of progress we make here, because, according to the southampton town board "we can't inconveinience the volunteers". However, we can let the patients die. EMS in Suffolk would be a really great hobby if it wasn't for all those annoying sick and hurt people. We could just ride around blowing the sirens and watching the lights flash and buying inflatable tents and boats and ATV's and first responders and chief's cars and preen before Channel 12 and validate our self image as America's heroes without having to justify anything to anybody. The attitudes of the people in leadership positions in Suffolk in EMS is appalling. Every time you address one roadblock they put in front of improved patient care, these geniuses throw up another one. "The protocol won't work because I gotta stop to pee first..."
I wouldn't blame Jeannie if she told you all to pound salt and left your l'il fantasy island to return to the real world.
Peace,
Obewan

[Crainaugh]

and hearing ourselves talking on all the radios that we can't use to notify a dispatcher that we're enroute...

[Vengeful Medic]

Okay, Obe...breathe........in....out...good...I'll have the nurse come by with your sedative soon. Okay. I get what you are saying, however in my posting, I did state (I believe, If I wasn't too sleepy to write it as I am now...damn these late nights!!!!!) that competent people should be in the positions of leadership or representation of EMS in order for EMS to truly move forward in terms of what we are discussing here. I do not disagree with what your'e saying, bro.....far from it. And we have had conversations regarding the "roadblock issues" that we see here today. I don't have any answers at the moment that you haven't already heard. I am as frustrated as you are in regards to this. What to do, what to do, eh?


Omar-Fara B. Norgaisse, EMT-P

[emtccfd]

If the person doesnt represent you or your corps, why is he still allowed to do so?? i dont understand that one?
Is he elected or appointed to that position?

[Crainaugh]

CCFD, we get these people who belong to grand sounding groups such as SCACA or Dist 7 who claim to represent us from sea to shining sea, when in some cases haven't been able to hold elections because they haven't been able to scrape up six delegates from their vast kingdoms to hold a meeting. They figure elected officials are too stupid to figure their game out so they make claims like that.
Omar, I'm sorry, but from where I sit, it seems like, in general, we select for stupid.
Peace.
Obewan

[Vengeful Medic]

Obewan,

You and I do not select for stupid. The problem lies with those who do not look at the larger picture and also try to look into the future in terms of how things can be improved. If more people used foresight instead of hindsight, you and I would behold a greater system with much more cooperation and much less of the BS that we see now. There's no such thing as a perfect EMS system (otherwise, me and the U-Haul guys would be headed there), but there is such a thing as a workable EMS system. Don't let what some idiots are doing be the fuel for cynicism. This horse can still make the run. No need to shoot it just yet.

Omar-Fara B. Norgaisse, EMT-P

AKA Jimmy Breslin

[Enough Already]

DavisDem wrote a lengthy response to vengeful medic and Obewan and had some sensible ideas, but N2N2N2N2N2 deleted it. Seems like DD bent N2N2N2N2N2 the wrong way a few months ago and he still isnt over it..Too bad, no wonder this site is dying a slow painful death..read quick this will be deleted tonight probably..LOL

[Vengeful Medic]

I would have liked to have read it.

"Jimmy Breslin"

[GusHansen]

I know Texas Holdem Tournaments have become popular fundraisers for many organizations. Can someone tell me where is a good place to buy good poker chips? Thanks

[Vol EMS Supporter]

How funny that there is no problem 4-x-x area. Alot of times it is because people get along and have great morale in there department. I know departments that get out right after the call is blown out any time of the day. and 90% of the time it is with out Paid People. If peopledidn't get so burnt out from B.S. Transports I think you would have alot more vollys out. Also you have to get new blood in the Dept. or Corp. I know it is hard but it is not impossible!!!

[Crainaugh]

I still can't stand Jimmy Breslin, Can't ya be more like Dave Barry?

[PhilLaak]

Depends on what you want to spend. You have your clay chips and there are composites.

[Vengeful Medic]

Vol EMS Supporter:

Yes, you are correct. You don't hear about issues in the 4th. But then again, I don't hear about issues in the 2nd, either. Morale does play a major factor, but that's a two way street between the membership and the leadership that they select (for the most part). However, it should be held as a truth that EVERYWHERE has issues of some kind. Some of them are just bigger and nastier than others.


crainaugh:

Don't like Jimmy Breslin? (Blame T.L. for that one )
How about Rush Limbaugh? I do call 'em like I see 'em...and I'm usually right


Omar-Fara B. Norgaisse, EMT-P
AKA "Rush"

[Aces and Eights]

GusHansen,

Some big name sports stores sell the chip sets or you can go to Costco, they have a nice set for a half-way decent price. If you Google "Poker Chips" you will get aquite a few retailers selling sets at pretty good prices and they even let you design your own set (colors and amounts).

[tm]

I got a nice set on eBay. One set of 500 11.5g clay chips with demonination printed on them. It came out to just under $80.00 which included shipping.

[4me2no]

I have to admit the banter back and forth between Tommy and Omar is enjoyable entertainment, but does anyone have an update on yesterdays Public Safety Committee meeting and Bishops bill?

[Jeff]

DOA in committe, not even a defib could revive it, went down 5-2 Bishop and Lindsay voting for it

[4me2no2]

I heard last night that after Bishop sold the Babylon Chiefs a line of crap and was going to take the PSAP portion out of the bill in an effort to get their support, and make it look like he was helping out 1-0-0, he turned his back on them and left the PSAP portion in the bill. I can hardly wait for when he comes to us looking for support for Town Council!

[Aces and Eights]

I looked and some of the ebay auctions but I wasn't impressed by the quality or the shipping charges.

[Crainaugh]

According to Angie, "You can't demand that the volunteers do it." I guess that means vollies cannot be held accountable or to a standard. guess they think we're amatuers. Despite reams of testimony, even from the people who opposed the bill as to the lack of information regarding just exactly what shape EMS was in, the committee decided that we just can't have them inconvenienced and voted to table the bill (which brings it up against the 6 month rule, meaning it dies on the table, as opposed to our patients, who die without getting to the table when we don't show up...) Get the data off the PCR's is the new battle cry. Perfect. My neighbor died a few weeks ago. Had a stroke. Waited 46 minutes for a bus that wasn't coming. Finally the sector car took him. Checked with the four agencies that tried to get out. Not one did a PCR, so therefore, thru that data collection method, the call never happened. It's sad that he died, but at least no vollie was inconvenienced. We just don't seem to get it. We're gonna fight against progress until the politicians will be more afraid of the taxpayers than they are of us and we lose our playgrounds and pplaytoys. Then we can all join the REACT technical rescue unit.
Omar, I think we need a Bill Reilly so's we can work in a no spin zone.
Peace,
Obewan

[GusHansen]

I know what you mean Aces. The shipping is more than the chips in some cases. Now I see 9g, 11.5g and 13.5g. Which is like the casinos? I want authentic ones.

[Bill's gone...]

That is interesting, my double Lincolns worth.

And by the way, I just noticed this crap...WHAT THE HELL DOES POKER CHIPS HAVE TO DO WITH THIS THREAD???????????????????????????

Obewan, A No-Spin Zone these days is virtually non-existent.......everything has become politicized...EVERYTHING. And as a result, there is spin even on what the color of the day should be and who should decide that. That's what's wrong with a lot of things we see here before us. But you didn't need me to tell you that.........


Omar-Fara B. Norgaisse, EMT-P
"Place Your Conservative NO-BS Personality Here"

[PhilLaak]

The 11.5 gram, 39mm chips are the popular choice.

[Crainaugh]

The color of the day is "rainbow". The Suffolk County Ammulance Chiefs' Assn, representing 4999 hard working and overburdened volunteers categorically opposes it as an unfunded mandate, a cookie cutter approach to the problem and inconvenient to the volunteers. The North and South Forks are`rapidly forming associations to oppose it and are demanding all the seats on the Regional Color of the Day Council, since no one understands that "color is different out here because we're so unique and you couldn't possibly understand the problems we face". The Suffolk Co Legislature has come out and said we can't possibly impose such a burden on the volunteers, altho' they applaud you for pointing out this vital problem.
Meantime, the UC's are standing in front of their closets waiting for some direction on what to wear so's they don't get kill't.
Sheesh,
Obewan

P.S. If Drew has 5000 members, where are they? If we divide that # by two (one driver, one EMT) that's TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED ambulance crews. Divide that into the suspect 110,000 ambulance calls # that he bandies about, that comes out to 44 calls per year for each crew, or making a call once every 8 days. Hmmm. Duzzn't seem like much of a burden to me...we must be doing something wrong. Maybe we need to reevaluate and reassign our assets? Hey, Dave? maybe legislation requiring every vollie to do 44 calls a year? What a howl that would raise.
O.

[Crainaugh]

Omar, give em a break. At least their accomplishing something and seem to have valid data

[poker chips vs response t]

Thanks Guys. Now, I see they come in 500, 600 and up. How many do I need for say, a table of 8 to ten players?

[Vengeful Medic]

*Sigh* I suppose.........................

[James Carville]

Ok, we know there is a problem so lets not dwell on that.
The call in system sounds find..except for a department like mine that has no 24 hour dispatcher. Is Couny, Medcom or Babylon Central ready or are they capable of activating three or four ambulance corps, then keeping track of who is calling in and for what call?
Do we drive and use our cell phones getting busy signals when everyone else is calling in?..Just seems that when things get busy, it might not run too smoothly.

[Crainaugh]

See, that's the problem. nobody's going, so nobody's calling in. It's not a problem, it's a computer program that answers the phone and pops up your id on the dispatchers screen. How hard is this? Central is ready, and FRES has been doing it for years.

[James Carville]

I agree, we need bodies, because opviously for some reason those of us trained are not riding, and there are many factors why brun out, working too damn much, other priorities (afterall we are just volunteers), and all these reasons have been beaten raw like rawhide on this threads. What happened to Suffolk counties grand recruitment program after 2001, now three years later is dead in the water, The posters sure look good hanging in our firehouses where the public can see them all, the ball was dropped when fire departments and ambulnace corps failed to follow up and some departments take members only once or twice a year. So Joe Schmo applies and gets told yes we need your help but wait 8 months untill the books open
Yeah right..ok..
We are our own worst enemy. Its time these million dollar budgeted departments hire three men crews to get the intitial rig out, rather it be 12 hours mannin or 24 hour, and if it pisses us vollies off, its too bad.
Our commissioners dont care so the members shrug their shoulders too.
We need to rally our own troops, show the vounty and state we are capable of solving our own problems.

[In the Know]

DUDE Take a step back breath and use the spell check button

[Tucker Carlsson]

He types as fast he talks

[WFD445]

You forgot the part where the last County Exec cut funding to the program. It's not always our fault.

[James Carville]

My point was the County dropped the ball, not us.
It was up to county to display the posters.
The County is quick to blame, but not look at what they can do to help.

[band aid]

if i go to a fire... 45 minutes and i'm back. an ambulance call... 2 hours... most of which is spent at the hospital talking to other vollies. i'd rather not get on the ambulance

[PhilLaak]

Well Gus, 500 will take care of eight players. 600 is good to be on the safe side.

[Vengeful Medic]

"Its time these million dollar budgeted departments hire three men crews to get the initial rig out"

Again with the "three man crew" nonsense. When will people get it that you only need two (count 'em 2!!!!!) people to crew an ambulance for most of your assignments. if you need more people, then call for backup. The combination doesn't really matter at this point in terms of who should make up the crew, as long as one of the crew members happens to be a NYS certified EMT-B at the very least. Geez, wake up and smell the current times.


Omar-Fara B. Norgaisse, EMT-P

[Vengeful Medic]

"if i go to a fire... 45 minutes and i'm back. an ambulance call... 2 hours... most of which is spent at the hospital talking to other vollies. i'd rather not get on the ambulance "

Then do us all a favor and don't go. We don't need people who don't want to be there (the patient certainly doesn't need you in that case). Whining about an ambulance call taking too long because people talk to other vollies.....The answer is simple: Take it upon yourself to set the example and advise your crew that you have better things to do than schmoozing it up with everyone else and their friends. An ambulance call should not take more than an hour tops in most places in Suffolk County (NOTE THAT I SAID "MOST" BEFORE YOU PEOPLE EVEN THINK OF TRYING TO FLAME ME). Then people wonder why it takes so long to get a bus to the next assignment. Chat it up on the Nextel or call your buddies at home...or even hit a bar after you guys get off duty and yuck it up then.


Omar-Fara B. Norgaisse, EMT-P

[James Carville]

OK 2 is an accepable number, I ran with that at a private ambulance compnay forb.s. transports,and as a First Responder I ran with just me and the driver many times,and was critisized by the Squad captain for asking for a third person on an active materinity case, and a commissioner/EMT told me I was being paid to handle emergencies... so apparently three people crews even in special cases is not a good idea..but thats besides the point.
The point I was making is its time the districts thought of the public and how to get faster responses.
So Omar, obviously someone not smelling the roses,is anyone who does not agree with you, and my ideas are too far fetched..so I will say no more.

[James Carville]

You didnt say smell the roses, you said smell the times..I Guess I really do not know what I'm talking about

[PhilLaak]

Not so. I am seeing some real nice chips sets on ebay. You are right about the shipping though. Killer.

[Vengeful Medic]

Now you're just being ridiculously sarcastic (see last paragraph). 2 IS an acceptable number as it is a STANDARD throughout the industry in most places that you go to that has EMS. Would you need a third person sometimes? Sure, of course you would. That's called back-up (say it with me now: BACK-UP).

Since you stated that your point was that the districts should think more of the public and facilitate faster response times, I will say that I agree with this stance (as anyone in EMS with half a brain would agree, too).

And I don't think that everyone should agree with me, or that anyone not "smelling the roses" is wrong or doesn't know what they are talking about. Maybe if you simply read what I said as is, you wouldn't get that impression. But maybe you did read the post as is, didn't like the fact that someone said something that YOU didn't like, and decided to flame it anyway to score (here I go with an assumption-make a note of it) points with the other readers. But then you and I fall into the trap that this message board obviously creates. Putting people at each other's throats and causing enmity. I don't know you, and I'm not looking for any problems with you or anyone else. But understand that I don't run from what anyone has to say and will not back down either. Also understand that if I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to say that I'm wrong. However (and some of the people on this message board do know me personally) I have experience in the Volunteer system, Private Transport, and the NYC 911 system. I try to look at things at all angles as to have a better idea of which concepts (in my humble opinion) would work better than others. Basically, I'm not saying that my ideas on EMS are better or superior to yours. But they are qualified with both experience and feedback. Now, if you can show me where it's been proved feasible to regularly have a third person on the ambulance and/or whatever impact that may have had on response times, I will be more than happy to concede the point. Thank you.

Omar-Fara B. Norgaisse, EMT-P

[serf]

Not necessarily a third person on the bus, but a first responder. I know obviously a first responder is not really warranted if you have a two person crew, however, if the crew gets to the scene, and have to run ALS, Bag someone, or do CPR, you want that third person there right then..
If it's a standard BLS call, or one that doesn't require three people, this frees up the first responder for another hit where if need be only a driver will be needed for it.

[DavisDem]

Omar, read this before I get caught on here and deleted..I'm James carville, and now that I said that wont be able top post anymore cause i'll be deleted from that name too hehhehe..we're on the same page, sorry to be argumentive, but tired of the whole lot of us being grouped into a bunch of people who arent doing "the job" ala David Bishop
I roade Transcare, Metrocare or whatever the hell they're acalled these days. volly, paid fire/emt and have been a first responder. and just recerted at EMT, if I ever hear from Albany...Anyway, you me and the guy from danch, a good instructror bny the way ahould have a couple beers together..or coffee..
Be safe today

[ProEMT]

All I see on this post is people attacking each other. I work both paid and I used to volley. I stopped volleying when a cheif suspended me an EMT-B, for making the driver leave headquaters with me and respond to a pediatric resp arrest call. The chief was mad because 2 members who were responding got left behing form "the good call". I had medcom page out for all responding members and ALS to respond to the scene. Luckly the kid lived without problems. So what did that chief make more important, the call or the way it was handled? Lets look not at the system, but at the players in the system. Every department has to fill out the same PCR's. Ech PCR has the times to be written in. Each department should have to report their times to the county and explain why their averege response time is what it is. Simple solution. schedule 24/7 volley crews. All you need is two people. Some agencies have this set up and have almost 24/7 coverage from their buildings. We are in public service, so lets see some public service.

[my2lincolnsworth]

So once again, it's not about the patient, it's more about ME, and the hell with everything else.
How pathetic.
The NYS Student BLS manual as well as NYS DOH-BEMS Policy statements clearly indicate the requirement for times to be entered on the PCR. In case some of you have forgotten, you are providing emergency MEDICAL service. As such, your PCR is part of the patient's MEDICAL record, and should reflect the MEDICAL care you provided, which includes the response times which may indicate how well your organization commits itself to providing quality MEDICAL care.
When you have ineffective (or non-existent) leadership, fail to bring to your organization up to the expected standards of quality EMS, and believe that the system revolves around you instead of the other way around, you as a supposed EMS professional and your organization have lost sight of the primary mission.
Wake up people. The future of EMS not only here in Suffolk County but throughout the country rests on our ability to accept change and to rededicate ourselves to our primary goal: getting quality, efficient and competent care to those that need it as quickly as possible. Please note the absence of the word volunteer in that last statement. I know you're a volunteer; you volunteered to be a professional. Start acting like one.

[DavisDem]

Who are you targeting your comment too?

[Vengeful Medic]

I got the message.....yeah, the three of us having a sit down discussion with the beverage of our choice....that would be cool. Just have to worry about the denizens speculating about our plotting to take over EMS....lol.

Who are you targeting your comment too?

8)

[guest 4]

8)

[guestr]

:lol:

bump

[Unregistered66666]

HI