UMC MEDIC PROGRAM

[Disgraced Alumni]

The Stony Brook University Hospital Department in Emergency Medicine Paramedic Training Program has as its goal to train effective and compassionate paramedics in accordance with the standards established by the United States Department of Transportation.

Then I ask myself what has gone wrong with this program. Why over the past several years has the amount of resignations and drops increases to a critical rate. Less than a 1/3 will complete this year’s program. When will the administration address this and take a proactive approach to correcting the problem. I think the students deserve more than what has been accepted as the norm. I would think twice about attending this program and dealing with the “TRUE PROBLEM” an ineffective and uncompassionate training staff and program. Apparently the SHTM administration is willing to take the money and believe the lies.


I would hope the medical director or the dean steps in and places this program back on track.

[proud alumni]

Woah there, I believe last year's class had one of the highest averages for the state and national registry exams in the program's history, so don't imply that there is a downward trend.

While this years class has had a high number of failures, I would attribute it to the students themselves more than any of the instructors. The instructors can lecture and demonstrate until they're blue in the face, but if the students aren't studying every day, they'll never learn the material. The people that failed out while I was in the class could have EASILY passed if they had their priorities in order.

You urge people to think twice about attending Stony Brook, but where would you like them to go? North Shore? wasn't that program totally cancelled halfway through last year's class? CMC? have you ever had the misfortune of working with one of their medics? it's not fun. I would argue that prospective students should think twice about attending anywhere OTHER than Stony Brook.

I've trained my share of Stony Brook and CMC medic students and I would take any of the Stony Brook medic students on my truck (including the dropouts) over any of the CMC students.

So you say the "TRUE PROBLEM" is that the class is inneffective and uncompassionate? What would you do instead?? Pass everyone? Make it easier? Give the bad students a hug and tell them "I'm sorry we must have made the tests too hard" Well guess what, I spent too much time working my ass off to do well in that course for some pu**y to tell me the class is ineffective. I spent too much time breaking a sweat while being put on the spot during lab sessions, all of which made me and the other students better medics when we got on the street. I know it's effective because the Stony Brook medics I work with are FAR superior to my other coworkers.

I've gotta say you sound much more like someone who is pissed because he failed out than a "disgraced alumni".

[notalumnis]

well if you get rid of the ones who are hanging by a thread and you ask the ones who are not doing so hot in the class to drop before you bounce them. and you do all of this BEFORE the finals then your pass rate is going to be excellent, this is why the class has one of the highest averages.

[proud alumni]

The rules about failing are simple and clearly written in the material provided before the start of the class. Every student knows what he or she has to do to stay in the class. Some of the people that fail can't manage to juggle work vs studying, others spend all their free time volunteering at their local ambulance. Either way, their priorities are not in the correct order. It's unfortunate, but many parents have taught their kids to have everything handed to them on a silver platter, especially on Long Island, but passing the medic program at SUNY SB is not something that is given away to anyone who asks for it. Hopefully the crybabys around here won't make the program turn into just another medic school where failures are overlooked until they completely bomb the certification exams.

[joe]

I've met with the gentleman who runs the program, Professor Paul Werfel, and it is my impression that nothing would make him happier than to see every single student pass with flying colors. Professor Werfel's philosophy, as explained to me, is simple-he'll only graduate people who he'd feel confident having treat himself or a member of his family. I for one, agree with this 100% and am very grateful that Professor Werfel takes this much pride in his program and his students. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the man and feel honored to have been given the opportunity to apply for a spot in next year's program. Should I not be accepted into this year's program, my plan-reapply next year.

My goal is to become the best paramedic that I can possibly be and I feel that this program is uniquely positioned to achieve my goals.

Should you disagree with me, please feel free to email me at Joe11426@aol.com and we can argue this matter privately until you're blue in the face.

Regards,
Joe S.

Ps. Please excuse my poor composition and grammar. It's 3:26am and I've been up since 7am yesterday. I wasn't planning on writing anything tonight, however I was emailed a link to your posting by a friend who knew I was applying to the program and felt compelled to reply.

[USB Alum]

Being in Paul's class taught me something that I didn't know how to do before, study. He teaches you through many methods, some of which may be questionable at the time you are taking his class. Believe me, when you get out and work with other medics you realize that you are the best because of his methods. You ever heard the joke, whats the difference between a Stony Brook medic and God?? Not even god thinks he is a Stony Brook medic. There is a lot of truth to that joke. The earlier post about the other schools quality is absolutely true. There are always exception, there are some bad Stony Brook medics and good CMC or North Shore medics, it happens, but as a rule it is the other way around. This years class did not graduate a whole lot and I don't know what happened, but I am sure that there is a good reason why they didn't graduate. Paul, as much of a Bastard as he can seem sometimes, is fair. Black/White, Male/Female, it doesn't matter. I am sure that I wasn't one of his favorite students but we respected one another and I have worked very hard to earn a good reputation working as a a medic. I am sure he knows that and is proud of me, despite everything. He makes YOU work for it, you need to be dedicated to your books and your rotations. Are his methods always good, No, but they produce a good product 95% of the time. There are students that leave that program book smart as all hell and useless in situations. That is going to happen sometimes, some people are just better at the books then others. But most of his medics are well rounded, knowledgeable, and reputable. There are some things I don't agree with, but when it comes to it, either you know it or you don't. RIGHT????? And Joe, if you succeed in entering his program and study your ass off, you will be a good medic. Just have to play by his rules for a little while, because it is his show, he makes the rules. You will not appreciate Paul until you graduate, then you will see. Good Luck in your endeavors. Be Safe everyone.

[notalumni]

LET’S TALK ABOUT THE FACTS OF BEING A PARAMEDIC. THERE ARE A FEW SKILLS THAT WE GET OUR ROCKS OFF, ARE YOU REALLY IMPRESSED ABOUT YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU KNOW UNNECESSARY MATERIAL THAT IS USELESS IN THE FIELD...WE ARE NOT GODS...THE PROBLEM IS COME DOWN TO REALITY...IN THE 15 YEARS OF BEING WITH THE VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT I’VE LEARNED MORE THEN EVER, BY RIDING EVERYDAY IS WHERE YOU GET YOUR EXPERIENCE AND NOT READING A BOOK IN STONYBROOK. YOU SAY STONYBROOK HAS THE BEST MEDICS, WELL OPEN YOUR EYES BECAUSE THEY ARE CLUELESS WHEN IT COMES TO PATIENT CARE AND USING THOSE FEW WONDERFUL SKILLS.
LET’S SEE, GO WORK FOR STONYBROOK. IS THAT WHERE I WOULD GET MY EXPERIENCE? <WHAT A JOKE> THE ONLY 911 SERVICE THEY DO IS AT THE VETS HOME...SO TO END THIS I'LL LEAVE WITH THIS NOTE. PAUL YOU ARE NOT GOD. COME DOWN TO REALITY,YOU ARE NOT IMPRESSIVE AND I WOULD PUT MY KNOWLEGE AND SKILLS AGAINST YOURS ANY DAY...

[proud alumni]

Wow, that was quite a cohesive and intelligent argument!!


Did you know the paramedic program has nothing to do with the transfer ambulances at Stony Brook's ER?

[UNHAPPY SB ALUMNI]

WHAT MAKE YOU SO SURE THAT I'M A GUY.
TAKE YOUR @#%$ OUT OF WERFEL'S CRACK! MAYBE THEN HE CAN PASS HIS REMAC.

[proud alumni]

1. "UNHAPPY SB ALUMNI", are you the same person as "notalumni"? are you able to notice the contradiction?

2. I don't care whether you are a male or female

3. I haven't spoken to Mr. Werfel in 2 years, so it would be tough to still have my @#%$ in his crack

4. there's really no need to make up rumors about him, but if you really want to, maybe next time you should choose something that would be more plausible, he knows the protocols better than any of his students

[baseballbatboy]

Stonybrook University medics come from a diverse background. They consist of graduates from many programs, not just the UMC program. They respond to local emergent scene jobs and intercepts every day other then from their satellite facilities. The truth is most of them volunteer or are paid responders, chiefs or assistant chiefs of the local volunteer companies.
I guess you have forgotten the Flight medics which are UMC EMS employees as well. I would consider them a skilled resource for the County. UMC EMS teams respond to local hospitals for patients that can not be maintained and require further intervention to sustain life. These patients are sick. I rode my rotations with them and was impressed at there understanding of pharmacological agents and their understanding of the pathology of the many disease processes. Your points are not only ignorant but off topic. To consider them even a digression is a stretch.

As for the program at Stonybrook or any other program there are strong points and not so strong points. It's a self learning program and maybe the energy you devote to degrading the program through inaccurate statements and conjecture would be better appropriated if used to increase your own knowledge base. Maybe even seek council for your anger/self loathing issues.

Thank You,
An old medic no longer active.

A good medic/EMT is one because he/she wanted to be one.

[joe]

Thank you for your advice USB Alum. Today, Professor Werfel took the time to personally call me to inform me that I was accepted. I feel that this just goes to show the caliber of person that Professor Werfel is. I don't believe that Mr. Wong from CMC, or Mr. Ferruci from NSLIJ would take the time to personally call students and congratulate them.

I take being accepted into this program very seriously, and intend to plan my life around the program in order to have enough time to study. I'm grateful for this opportunity and there's no way in hell I'm going to f--k this up.

[NYS Taxpayer]

Congradulations Joe and best of luck in the program. I would like to throw out a few ideas for thought -- concerning accountability for the terrible graduation rates of this program. I'm not talking about the rate of graduates compared to the number of grads that pass state or national tests. Unfortunately this is the ratio that Prof Werfel and the program rave about. I am talking about the number of individuals that are forced to resign by Prof Werfel during the course of the program. Using the threat that if the student doesn't resign he will be banished from the SUNY system forever. This years graduation rate will be approximately 33%, how sorry is that. How sorry is it that our tax dollars and $5,000 from each student support a program graduating 33% of it's students.

I believe that when one person has complete autonomy over any program without proper oversight or checks and balances, that person ends up with too much power. And unfortunately the true people that should be in power are left in the dark.

What is the Medical Director's opinion of this graduation rate ? His charge is direct oversight and supervision of the Paramedic Program, including testing and remediation of students not performing up to standard. Did he see this years final exam ? Much more difficult than prior years from what I hear. Was he notified of all students to be dropped this year ? Both of those issues are his responsibility. And if he wasn't involved in those issues was the director held accountable ??

Where are the professors in the program ? Do they ever express an opinion of the directors actions or the program itself ? Other than behind closed doors to certain students or hospital employees. Two students were dropped on the final day after 10 months of classes and over 600 successfully completed rotation hours. A number of professors have privately expressed outrage over how unfairly these two individuals were treated. Is this the lack of remediation process that Albany thinks the program has. Why don't these same professors go to the medical director or the dean, and express their opinions. Right or wrong people should know. After these two students were dropped and they refused to bend to Prof Werfel's resign threat and after the few professors did express concern about what was going on-- guess what happened ?? I'll bet you didn't guess it -- All those involved received an email from the director that they were not permitted to discuss the students. A little like the old westerns " circling the wagons".

Where has freedom of speech and freedom of opinion gone ?? But most importantly "where is the accountability ?" Quite obviously not within the halls of UMC.

[Neutral]

Unless you happen to be faculty, the points you raise are moot. Your precious two students I'm sure weren't dropped because of one failure in the last segment of class. Your implication of conspiracy theory is laughable in that you truly believe that they were dropped to prevent unfavorable statistics when (assumed) they failed the state written. NEWSFLASH.....The state exam is easily passable and would have been for the two to (probably) pass, except.... they failed to earn the right to sit for the state exam by not successfully completing a paramedic program. Whatever your feelings are on the subject and regardless of who you may think you are representing, Werfels integrity isn't the question and neither is the 33% pass rate. Simply put, when you've wanted the directors position for so long that your willing to manipulate the facts and figures to insinuate wrong doing, you have not only smudged your own reputation but that of all that have and will graduate from the paramedic program.


Don't be fooled... we are all pretty sure as to who is who in the cast of characters, but the identities are useless for the people that are writing the harshest commentaries are the people that have wanted their day to run the program and know that they couldn't do it nearly as well.

[William J OConnor]

It seems that some alumni have forgotten the sacrifices they made when they completed their programs and feel they are in a position to cast stones.

Whether you like Paul or not doesn't matter. He is who he is and that is that. Whatever euphemism comes to mind is probably reflective of your relationship and it is a safe bet that whatever pole you happen to be on, your opinion will not change.

That not withstanding, the comments displayed above seem malicious in their intent and they imply that not only the program director but the medical director on down to the program staff are culpable for the unfortunate circumstances of some of this years students.

Every class has their "drops" and it's unfortunate. Some dropout for personal reasons and others for academic reasons. Some early on in their program and some in the latter portions. Every person enrolled in the paramedic program knows full well what their in store for and have a multitude of resources that to the best of my recall go unused.

The issue of 33% passing rate although alarmingly low is the cold stats about the class this year. Some that I thought wouldn't pass have, and others, the opposite.

If those that have dropped for academic reasons truly feel that they have been wronged then their appeal process should be used. Let's face that facts. If the things that are being tossed around in this forum were true then Paul would long since be gone as well as the dean and most of the faculty but that ust hasn't happened. Everything that takes place in the program is open to scrutiny yet with the amount of people dropped collectively there are a suprisingly low complaint rate. How can this be?

We are blessed with the ability to exchange info and ideas in the blink of an eye and some choose to waste time with finger pointing and character slaying.

How about this? What can we do as paramedics to assist our colleagues that are engaged in the program to ensure a positive outcome?

Do students do all that is necessary to remain in the program when faced with the possibility of expulsion and how can we ensure the understanding that the rules are not negotiable and open to interpretation.

Unanimously, the ten or so people I spoke with that had very specific opinions about the high drop rate were not available to assist the students that needed it even though in some cases they either worked or vollied with the students.


more to follow later..... adieu!

[USB Alum]

Joe congratulations!!!! Be very proud. You are about to join an elite group of people who get the opportunity to study at Stony Brook. It is a great program. You will love it and hate it, all at once. If you love it as much as you seem too, you will love most of your instructors and the content. Bill O is one those great instructors. You will see that Bill has a very unique technique of teaching, but it works. Bill is a good paramedic and he is one of the many medics you will learn from. Do not listen to the hype, go in and form your own opinions. That is the best advise I can give you. That and STUDY!!!! A LOT!!!! With that being said, Good Luck with your endeavor. I have several friends going in this year also, stick together as a class and work together. Use each other before and after class. You will need each other to get through this. Some of my closest friends in my life are people that I met and made it through medic class with. Bill, nice to see ya around man. Be Safe everyone.....

[Medic]

as a grad from umc medic program, I have to add my two cents. DId this program make me the best medic I could posibly be, yes it did. At time did I want to quit and throw my book at Werfel's head... yes. He's not running this program to make friends, he's training future medics to be the very best, and that's what he puts out on the street. The rules for the class are simple. 3 strikes and you are out. Is it fair that people fail out with a month/week/day left? No, but if they don't pass the requirements to sit for the state test, then they shouldn't be allowed to sit. As for the people bitching about the high fail/drop rate, those people didn't make it through for 1 reason or another. Would some of them be good medics? I'm sure they would, but this wasn't their time for it. Take the class again. I wouldn't want someone who doesn't know their stuff to work on me or my family. I'm very proud to have passed this program and would feel that to let some borderline students get pushed through, just so they don't feel bad about failing would belittle all those who worked so hard to pass. IS Werfel the easiest guy to get along with? no, but he's not there to hold your hand. He's there to make you work harder than you have ever worked before and love him or hate him, he will kick your ass untill you either become a medic or fail out. The statement was true about last years class having one of the highest state and nat. reg averages, and that's not becuase he got rid of all the weak students. The weak students get rid of themselves. it happens all the time, class after class. Well, enough of my rambling.

[suprised555]

The issue of people not completing the program is not black and white. Obviously the program must have specific requirements for graduation and multiple failures does mean that the person is not ready, at least now, to be a medic. Obviously the students need to know the rules and put in the effort to achieve success. All this has been mentioned in the previous threads. What has not been mentioned is the obligation that the program and the instructors have to the students. The program must select students who they think can survive the program. If 2/3 of the students don't complete the program was the selection process flawed? Were students chosen for the program simply to keep the program going and to collect $5k, who knows?

As important as the above is the question of "Did the instructors do their job". Their job is to help the student to succeed. It is obvious that this job was not completed. Don't just blame the students, blame the instructors. Were weak students identified early? Were additional classes and remediation offered? Were study groups created? Were instructor office hours available and convenient?

When 2/3 of the class fails there is more than enough blame to go around. The students who failed are at fault and the instructors failed the students, shame on them.

[alumni]

being an alum of the program, I can tell you that if you needed help, all you had to do was ask any professor/instructor there and they would set something up to help you out. I would meet hours before class with some of the instructors, stay late with others. I even went to the airport when one of my instructors was the flight medic for suffolk county aviation and studied with them. They all made time for me, all I had to do was bust my ass and study. I agree that 2/3 of the students failing is a BIG problem, but I wonder how many of those that failed asked for help on a regular basis or only when it was too late. Putting a band-aid on an arterial bleed isn't going to help at all, and I wonder if some of these students waitied untill their situation became that severe to ask for help.

[USBALUM]

Absolutely right. Most students don't get the help until it is way too late. Werf tells you in the beginning of class not to wait, and most do, and they fail. Well said alumni, most people might not like to hear it, but they do a great job up there. 2/3 failing is bad and needs to be looked at, but I think that it is the lack of effort on some parts and maybe bad life timing for others. Well I guess the moral of this thread is to study really hard if you get in and you will do fine. Ask for help when you need it and play by his rules. That should be about it. Take Care and Be Safe.

[suprised555]

Should the students ask for help? Of course
Are the students told to ask for help? Of course
Do students delay asking for help? Of course
Do the instructors know that the students delay? Of course
What did the instructors do when they saw students failing? Nothing
Shame on the instructors.

[USBALUM]

What should the instructors do??? If they offer the time, tell the time, and tell them to use the time before it is too late, what else can they do??? Short of kidnapping, nothing.... I understand the frustration, but what can an instructor do but offer help. I went to college, if you didn't show for extra help that was your problem. The people in this class are supposed to be adults. I don't agree with your statement at all. The shame and blame should be squarely placed on the students. And it is.....Be Safe and Goodnight.......

[suprised555]

Can you show me the list of the extra classes that were provided as remediation?
Can you show me the list of the study groups that the instructors set up so that weaker students could work with the stronger ones?
Can you show me the reports that were issued to each student, a few times during the course, that identified how the students were progressing?
Can you show me the the written "plan of correction" or suggestions the instructors made with the weaker students to get them up to a higher level?
Can you show me anything the instructors did, other than on the 1st day when they told the students that if they needed help they should approach them, to work with the weaker students?
Can you show me all the days that the instructors came in early for additional practice and review?
You and I both know you can't. The students needed this support and it never came, shame on the instructors.

[USBALUM]

There is only one thing that can be said, tough. Anywhere in the US, when you go to a higher learning facility, you are expected to be an adult and be able to take care of yourself. Your grades are posted every week by Paul in the classroom by SS#. No is to blame but the students. I shouldn't have to come to you to ask you if you need help. COME GET IT!!!! Being a Paramedic for years now, I can tell you that you need to have the brains to know when to call for help. If you can't do it in class, then you certainly don't belong running a code or any other kind of call for that matter. I needed help with a few things in class, I went to my instructors and everyone of them made themselves available to help me out, before and after class. Even on rotations. So let me stress something that I don't think you understand, you need to be an adult when you are in this class. This is a higher learning institute, therefore you need to go to them, not them you. By the way, there are plenty of times Paul or other instructors had special classes on a Saturday. Not only that but how about taking a little initiative with some classmates. Get a study party together at your place with some of the students. We did that nearly every week in my class. Only one person out of all of us that did that, failed. I am not trying to be insensitive, I understand that it sucks, my best friend failed out, but it is on you as the student to ask for the help. So passing the buck to make ones self feel better is unacceptable in my book.

[2sense]

Stonybrook Paramedic Program…the ‘marines’ of Para-medicine. Yeah, okay. I believe there was a time when you would have rotations in the Emergency Department and you would be assigned to a doctor who would teach you the finer points of the patient interview. Now? You get thrown into an unfamiliar situation and told to just jump in. The nurses have no idea who you are because you are never introduced, nothing is ever set up to pave the way to a working relationship with them and you sit on the sidelines watching hoping the nurse does not yell at you again. Walking into a rotation on the floor greets you with the usual ‘I don’t know what to do with you…stand over there” or “uggg…I am too busy for a student!” You get sent to the ambulance rotations not knowing where to go or who to speak to. You stand there hoping someone will notice you as a student or you get the courage to walk up the ‘city medics’ and introduce yourself. Only to find that you are talking to an EMT who gives you attitude. Some will say “You gonna be a medic, yous gots ta just jump in there” yeah, okay. Come on, these are usually kids nervous kids who want to do more than just be an EMT you can not expect them all do just take over every situation. Yes, they are over 18 so they are adults. We all know that they are 22 or so and they do not always have all the tenacity as of yet. They need help and guidance that’s what instructors are for. I remind they are instructors not ‘professors’. Now, how do they help? Yelling and belittling the students is the opposite of help. It is if they think of ‘shaming’ the student to success. This is what happens in many of the ‘lab sessions’ Different people learn different ways, they make you take some test at the beginning of class to determine the best way for you to learn, and then they ignore the results. They teach how they think you should learn. This is not a teacher, this is a dictator. The instructors are fun though, they will go out drinkin with ya, and even hit on you and even do more that that, yes, the instructors have slept with the students. Ahhh…the dirty little secret. Yes, it happens. We all know it does. We ignore it and will come up with phrases like “prove it”. Shall we? Shall we prove it to the wives? No. Knowing is one thing…caring is apparently another. As for a paramedic class, does giving reading assignments out of one required book and taking the tests out of another completely different book really help? Test on what you assign, little nuances in the wording of the questions can throw off a great medic to be and a poor test taker. I did also always wonder how someone could pass every EKG quiz and fail the final. Does that make any sense? No. How can you pass a CLASS final, yet fail the class. How can you put such importance on a patho final and devote so little time to it in class? Yes, it is up to the student but it is just as much up to the instructors, otherwise there would be “Get your medic ONLINE” maybe even with Sally Struthers. Teachers should have the ability to do just that teach. Find someone who is struggling in the beginning and help him or her. Your job is to help and educate, guide them and yes hold their hand if necessary until they are ready to let go. This is how successful people teach. People with experience are also helpful. A new grad that is still nervous on the street should probably get a little more experience before they try to teach. Saying it is up to the student is like saying it’s up to the patient in arrest to live, you really want to live you’ll just do it. Come on. Teachers…teach. 1 a : to cause to know something b : to cause to know how c : to accustom to some action or attitude d : to cause to know the disagreeable consequences of some action
2 : to guide the studies of
3 : to impart the knowledge of
4 a : to instruct by precept, example, or experience b : to make known and accepted
5 : to conduct instruction regularly in
intransitive senses
: to provide instruction : act as a teacher

[d]

You think that the Instructors failed the students? How about the students failed the instructors. When did earning a degree of any kind at a "higher learning facility" become a preschool experience where the instructors are expected to hold your hand and guide you through every step of the class. True the instructors are there to give guidance and instruction but they can not force you to study or study for you.

There is a screening and interviewing process before you get accepted into the paramedic program and you are selected because it is felt you will one day make a great medic. The program is hard, as it should be. The expectations of the class are laid out for every student who goes through the program. They have been the same for every student who has ever gone through the program. If you don't meet the requirements you are dropped.

No one wants a C medic showing up at their door for a call, I certainly don't anyway. I want to know that when I need help in an emergency I am going to get someone who knows what they are doing and is going to do what needs to be done to help. Not someone who is going to sit in the background and wait for someone to tell them what to do. Does a medic responding to a call need to be introduced to the patient and everyone in the room before they start to work up the patient or do they just jump in. It is most unfortunate if the ER is busy when a student gets to a rotation and formal introductions may not be possible, but maybe the student should show some initiative, introduce themselves and jump in and help where they can. Being a medic is not easy. You could possibly hold someone else's life in your hands and seconds could mean the difference between life and death. If you are too nervous to take some initiative then maybe that is not the job for you.

The instructors of the program can teach and teach and teach but if the students don't do anything to help themselves learn they will not learn. I have been through four years of higher education and have earned my degree. Not once during my education did a teacher hold my hand through anything. Expectations were laid out the first day of class, many times with the assignments for the semester, and were not repeated again. If you missed an assignment there was no excuse you were given them all the first day of class. You knew exactly what was expected of you and if you needed any extra help it was up to you to approach the instructor and ask. If the instructor then did not provide the help asked for I would say shame on that instructor.

I do not believe this is the case in this program. The instructors let you know from the first day that they are there for any extra help you may need. I have seen first hand that they go out of their way if you ask. Students have been invited to come to instructors homes for the help if they were unable to make arrangements to meet at the school. Instructors have taken time out of their lives to meet early or late with students that ask for help. Time away from their family, time that they do not get paid for. These instructors want the students to do well, these students may one day be medics responding to a call at their home for their family members. It is unfortunate that this last class did not take advantage of the instructors' offer to help. It is not the instructors job to set up study groups that is completely up to the students.

2sense I think you are starting to make the integrity of this thread become questionable when you make accusations that instructors are sleeping with students. That comes completely out of left field. And seems to be simply a statement of frustration for lack of anything else to say to discredit the instructors.

As for the program I think Werfel and his instructors turn out good medics and if I am every in need of a medic I hope it is one from the USB medic program. I will be confident in the fact that these medics did not just breeze through the program to keep the pass/fail statistics correct.

[USBALUM]

I could not have said it any better myself D. It is about time someone else sees it the way it should be seen. I also earned my degree before medic school. I also got nothing handed to me. I worked for everything I got as well. That is what is wrong with everyone today. People want everything spoon fed to them, when it isn't, they want to know who to point the finger at. That is all it is. No one knows how to take blame anymore. It is always someone else's fault. UNACCEPTABLE!!!! While I sympathize with failing out a few days before class, this also means that he had 2 failures prior to this. Instantly telling me that he wasn't the stellar student that he is being made out to be. Sure there is a lot of information in the class. Making it difficult for some people to succeed. As far as testing from other material, I have an answer. This is para-medicine, it doesn't matter where the information comes from, the stuff he is testing you on is the same everywhere. Either you know it or you don't. You would not be able to have a standard test, States or Nationals, if it wasn't all the same information. It isn't like O2 or CO2 values change from textbook to textbook. So lets be honest, it is not the instructors, it is the students. Thanks D........Be Safe everyone

[2sense]

While Stonybrook University is a “higher learning facility” where one can earn a degree, the medic program is not a degree program. As you “D” and many others have mentioned, you already have your degree. Now, this in not a requirement to be in the medic program. Do you understand not everyone has a degree or has been to college? Just because you have had the benefit of a higher learning institution does not mean you should assume everyone had that advantage. Some people go from high school to EMT for a while the on to a paramedic program. Does this make you better than they are? No. It means you have an advantage of study skills and study habits you have picked up over 4 years of college. The medic program is also not like any other class anyone has attended. Some people just need guidance. A little nudge, a little help. I know of many classes that had ‘help’ study CD-ROMS and what not. Some people did not have that advantage either. Some people were not invited to those study sessions. You know if you have been a member of the class that the valedictorian straight A person may not be the one you want working on your family. Sometimes it is the “C” student who is the best on the street. These people are not ‘medics responding to a call’ yet. They are students. How can people be so against helping the students a little more? This class is nothing like regular college; in college nothing you did in English 101 gave you the fear of someone dying if you make a mistake. It is a natural fear when learning the responsibility you are undertaking going to medic school. This is reason enough to help. The stronger people in life are supposed to help the weaker people. Is this not why we do this job, we see someone who needs help, we go. It’s that simple. Why is it so hard to do in this class? How hard is it for someone, anyone, an instructor to say, “Hey, I am watching your grades slip. Maybe you are too nervous to ask for help. Can I help you?” Is this how we are with our patients?

My statements are not for a lack of anything else to say, frustration or to discredit the instructors. Anyone who has been a part of the class knows there is a history there. I also know a student who slept with an instructor, and you probably do as well.

As for the student I spoke of failing out, I pose this question again. How does a student pass EVERY EKG quiz then fail the final? This does NOT make sense.

When an instructor has to tell the students “we don’t have time to cover all the material” and proceeds to just Q&A the students as fast as possible with the actual test questions, this is failing the student. When you go to ask for help and the instructors just throw a practice test at you and tell you to do it with out explaining the questions, this is failing the students.

[suprised555]

The reality is that after many years there are many qualified people who want to take the medic course and won't take it at Stony Brook. I am not saying that North Shore is an option, their program is the worst.

Many threads have identifed a large part of the problem, that being the selection process. If 19 of 29 people don't graduate then part of the problem must be the selection process. If 29 good candidates were chosen then why did 19 fail. They must have not been good candidates or else the faculty didn't teach them properly.

[2sense]

Yes, if more than HALF the students are failing, there is no other to blame. Those who can do...teach, those who can't teach write books.

[tech]

HTML Comments are not allowed

[2sense]

The people who think the program needs some...reworking, to say the least, do not think all Stony brook medics are horrible. It almost seem that the people on this site are taking negative comments as a personal offense. The points stated are not really rebutted. It seems you are too busy making an argument about the students to look at the points that are brought up. It is not really a direct reflection on you. Really look at how you thought the program served you while you were in it. Look at what was going on while you were in the program. Were there others struggling more that you for other reasons that made the class harder? Did you live at home rent free? Did you have to work a full time job and do over time to make ends meet? Did you have all that extra experience of just being out of school or had you been away from a school environment for many years? Did you have outside help via other study materials from former students who knew how to help you in the course? Did you really have to work so hard? Edited by: 2sense at: 7/13/04 10:57 am

[2sense]

I WIN!

[alumni]

you sir, win the prize for being the bigest jackass

[confused]

I don't get it..... What did you win??????????

Hey didn't you get passed over.... I'm sorry... not considered, for a job that you were exquisitely prepared for???? Doesnt that just burn your biscuits?

You should stick to issues on the 4th level and leave the 2nd to their own issues!

[USBALUM]

This is my final reply on this thread. 2sense here is something that cannot be refuted. In a class, though I am not sure what year, there was a student who met all the hardships you have discussed and still did quite well. He was a FDNY EMT, there is nothing easy about those shifts. He worked midnights to get through class. He has a wife, 1 kid with another on the way, born right at the end of class. Mortgage, home, blah blah blah. He had all the hardships that one person could imagine. He had no college education, and worked his ass off. He made it through because he put forth the effort. I don't think you could possibly have anymore on your plate than that. My point to this story is not to expose this person to ridicule, his classmates will certainly remember him, he was a great guy, but to show that with hard work and studying, this class can be accomplished. And just for the record he volunteered also, never missed a month either. So, while it appears this is a game of winning and losing to you, the rest of us balled up and went a few rounds and really did win, we got an education. Thank you and be safe.......

[2sense]

1) Sir? Are you assuming?

2) I do not and have not ever worked in/for Stonybrook

3) Well I would like to respond to USBALUM sadly he/she has decided to 'post the last thread.' Quite brave to post and run. I did some checking with some people who were students/graduates in recent classes. What you failed to remember is that Mr. Werfel apparently shows some favoritism. Some people he lets slide, even when they do not meet requirements. Some grades are pushed as passing, some failures are ignored. Some people are given graces while others are not. While the person did work very vigilantly, had rules been played evenly across the board this person may not be in the position they are in now. Also, you have made but one example. You exude a belief of "This person did it so must everyone." Einstein could not tie his shoes until late in life, did not speak until late in life. Look at what he did, does this mean I should expect something as wondrous as the theory of relativity from you? People are different. Different people have different needs. Why does it seem you are so adverse to the idea of instructors helping the students more aggressively? What people say about this medic program is not a personal attack on you. Why do you take it that way? Why defend a man who takes students and treats them as close personal friends then talks horribly about them to other students. For an instructor to bad mouth one student to one of their peers is not a person to defend.

4) Get a sense of humor. The "I win" was just to get people to write again. No one is attacking.

[tm]

I win too! Yippee!

[umc medic program]

well here we go again 2004/2005 class off to a great start. word is their allready down four students.( that didn't take long) way to go paul

[AnotherAlum]

So they lost four, they always lose a few. How do you know anything about any of them?? Maybe some dropped do to personal reasons. They don't all fail. Even if they all did fail, (I am unsure) who cares?? Get off the guys ass already. Bottom Line is that he makes great medics or else he wouldn't get all the applications he gets. He definitely wouldn't be writing for JEMS or teaching at national conferences if he didn't know what he was talking about. Go anywhere in the nation, if they have the first clue about EMS, they know Paul and they know Stony Brook. That doesn't happen if the program is as crappy as everyone on this thread claims it to be. I didn't even get along with the guy and I don't talk to him (haven't since graduation). But I am a good medic and it is because of Paul and his staff. I am new to this site, but I would be willing to bet that the people who are doing all the negative bitching on this site are the same ones causing problems at their own FD's and VAC's. Be safe and lets be positive.

[CCinTheHamptons]

a member of my vac is in that class and told me that the class started out with 39 and is now down to 30
according to him only 1 was a dropout

[USB Graduate]

Despite having to work my ass off, and at times not thinking that i could make it. I did. and Im glad i did. Help was offered to everyone in the class.. the instructors gave out personal phone numbers and offered to meet on their off times, after their full time jobs to help out the students. I know the numbers may seem like a lot of people to drop out, but In my opinion those people did not come to grips with the reality of the program. it is a hard program, but at the end you are an outstanding medic. Yes, field exposure makes your better, but without the basic understandings of fundamentals, its worthless. Medics are medics because of their knowledge base, not because of their skills. Some of these other classes out there may have better "NUMBERS" but i wouldn't want to work with any of their graduates. My class may have only graduated 1/3 of the class, but i would feel more confident working with even the medic with the lowest average from any of the stonybrook classes then and from another programs medics, even their valedictorians. Unless you have been there, BACK OFF! You know not what you are speaking of.

[fried amt]

Could you post it please?!

[me too]

me too!

[WAKE UP]

Sounds like your another Paul croney, wake up and smell the coffee, First of all Medics are medics because of knowledge and not skill? Thqats a cookbook medic. It's great to know what drug to push, Doesn't do you much good if you suck at IVS. Good and bad out of every class, Stop kissing a washed up medics ass. those who can't do teach, this gut can't do either

[iv practice]

or will an orange or BALL do???!!!

[PARAMEDIC]

"Wake Up"....re-read your post, it was stupid as hell. You can teach anyone off the street to intubate or start an IV with only a few lessons, it's easy. But graduating medics or CCs that don't know what's happening inside the body when a drug has been given is dangerous. That's why the people that don't "get it," do not graduate from Stony Brook.

[PoliticalOBserver]

I think we can all agree, to some extent the difficulties involved in any Paramedic class. Some may be better than others. To transcend the discussion to some points that reflect the nature of the class, I offer some general observations. First, some of the people who are EMT-Basics, and some Critical Care technicians, make assumptions about Paramedics and their ability to perform that simply aren't true and vice versa. Dont believe everything you hear or read. Some of us have not erformed EMS outside of Suffolk County, and therefore, do not understand the responsibilites of Paramedics in other jursidications. Of those jurisdications, Paramedics working in them may have greater latitude for patient care. Thus, the class is designed to meet a standard that needs more information than Suffolk would care to have you use. Basing a paramedic's ability by what you see on television, or hear from poor sources, or see from one call is not science. It is prejudice and it has no room in a field where a more focused analysis is needed. Furthermore, any long standing curriculum would not stand, unless the proper procedures and standards are maintained throughout the duration of the program. Second, teaching improves with experience. Not all teachers are pleasant, but some students arent either. Some students do not do the reading; some have overriding issues like finances and children; still others just have poor attitudes to begin with, and no amount of instruction can improve that. Responsbility in the classroom environment, can indicate how serious you are at accepting responsibility for patient care in the field, especially, when it comes to paying attention to detail. Poor accommodation to standards and requirements set forth by The National Registry and New York State, results in failure, period. Naturally, a course must situate itself to prepare students for the major exams; which is why the bar is high from the beginning. There are of course exceptions to the rules, they exist everywhere in everyday life: there exists no algorithim, standing order, or protocol that fits perfectly for every patient, so as healthcare providers we have to deal with what we have available. Concomittantly, a class does not have perfect students, so some may fail where others succeed. To classify a program based on second and third party information is clearly not an accurate assesment of many things. As for a former student crying foul at a teacher for wrongdoing, their complaints may have some validity. There are numerous administrative avenues of appeal given to every student by the University. I suggest a remedy, apply to PA or NP or medical school, get in, behave the same way you did in medic class, and get your white coat. You will definitely feel better about not becoming a paramedic, but you may also not be so bitter about being ousted when if you fail to meet the grade. Medic instructors arent concerned with popularity contests, and there is no love lost if you happen to be tossed for ineptitude. In addition, those who have received information about the program from those who were in it and failed, I think it wise to CONSIDER THE SOURCE. Some people do not always make honest assesments about their world, and indeed, some people arent honest with themselves, but they will feed you the lines of a victim anyway, its up to you to decipher what is reality and what is garbage. They are the last individuals you should seek counsel from. We do need individuals who make committments to excellence in our field, and desire to share their knowledge to those who seek continue the idea of quality prehospital care. Lastly, the professional EMS system continues to change. The responsibilities of Medics and EMTs are changing as well, and in order to prepare for those changes, knowledge and skill will continue to be of utmost importance. There are Physicans, Physicians Assistants, Nurse Practitioners, and some Nurses(not all), who have no faith in the skills we perform and the job we do, but we know and that matters. What we have learned in school is not always applicable to everyday life, but there exists a plethora of information that is useful in prehospital medicine and is taught in Stony Brook's Medic class by virtue of the Director's concern for competency; the days of the part time EMT are yielding to the more capable and professional Medic and the individual EMTs and medics stand to meet the test of a system in evolution. Now, more than ever, EMS providers need awareness and knowledge as a prerequisite for a system that continues to become an increasingly integrated component of public health. The last thing we need are individuals with sophomoric attitudes that are incapable and unwilling to take responsibility for themselves and their patients and those who scoff at gaining knowledge and experience and putting it to practical use. EMS, can stand to lose those candidates who fail to make the cut, whomever they are, and I'd expect that you wouldnt mind the loss either if you were lying on the stretcher.

[medically correct]

great reply very informative!

[USBALUM]

Political Observer you have hit the nail on the head. I do not think that there is a mature and/or lucid response to your statement. Well thought out and well said.

[emt cc]

VERY NICE REPLY

[FFWFC]

What's this got to do with FD's?

[notreally]

needs to stop going out of his/her way to sound intelligent. Trying to use as many 'big' words as u can does not make u more important just more arrogant. This arrogance will lead people to ignore your message .. right or wrong.

[Really]

Wrong!!!! I thought it was well said. They are only big words if you don't know how to use a dictionary. Nicely done PO.

[2sense]

Hmmm..interesting reply. Yes, most of it is true without really pointing to what we actually think. Basically sounds like everyone should take responsibility for their actions. Good idea, but if it were ever actually a practice in this country we would not have these lovely boards, for one thing. ‘NOT REALLY’ was correct in their assumption, but just because they pointed out the ‘big words make me sound valid’ scenario does not mean that ‘not really’ does not know the big words. When in daily conversation do you really hear the word ‘Concomitantly’[sic] used in everyday speech patterns? This is a FD/ EMS website. Now onto bigger and better things. The program in that aspect has gone through devolution. Stonybrook used to have a program where your hospital field rotations had you assigned to a physician or nurse who knew you were coming. Now the nurses only know you if you get them coffee and the doctors barely care that you exist. Medics on your field rotations knew you were coming and cared to meet you. Now when you first arrive for an ambulance rotation you are not sure where to go or who to talk to. I am not intending that this is a horrible program, but it has lost some of what made it a great program. This is not a PA program, it is a medic program. People with years of higher learning do not enter this program as often as someone with, only high school or some college. These are the people who traditionally are the ones who enter this and these are the great paramedics who are the veterans who teach us today. They teach us beyond the books and what it means to actually do the job and do it well. These are people who after all their time on the job would probably be dropped from the class and be talked about on a website as ‘not being able to cut it’ or ‘not up to the Stonybrook par’. I have seen met and worked with people from all over and there are good, great and horrible medics from all over and all programs. I have seen ‘vinnies medics’ who would blow away the best of the best of the Stonybrook medics and a double dropout from Stonybrook who would be much more competent than some valedictorians from other classes. I have worked with your ‘valedictorians’ from Stonybrook, laugh at the truthfulness of the ‘theoretically prefect practically useless’ statement. What Stonybrook was and what it is are 2 different things. I am sure there was a time they were the talk of the town but sometimes the legacy lives on while the actual standards die down. Go to Seattle and ask them how great Stonybrook is while they put in chest tubes, go a few hours west of NY and ask them while they hang HEME on a trauma victim, go to the western side of this country find the medics that pot IO’s in the manubrium and ask how great we are here in Stonybrook. This isn’t an I am better than you contest. This is life and the stronger people have a responsibility to help the weaker people. If they have a class where 2/3’s are failing help them to find their potential and do well, you could make someone a great medic with just a little help.

[suprised555]

You seem to know a lot on this subject. What is the difference between what you describe as the "older" courses bs. the "now" courses? Why do you feel it was better, what was different??

[Mikecp421]

bump baby!!!

bump baby!!!
bump

[SweetMedic]

I didnt like the class, but it does make you think a lot. Tracings stink though. :lol:

:roll:

[guest7]

:lol:

[asd]

:lol:

[Looser2]

:idea:

[Confused Again]

I heard that the Stony Brook Paramedic Program will not have a class next year due to poor results. Apparently with 50% of the students failing the school has realized that they need to fix the program before they continue on the same path.

[Guest13]

I also heard that the class is down to 15. With the exception of two students all have quit their full time jobs.

I also heard that the class is down to 15. With the exception of two students all have quit their full time jobs.

What do you expect from their "Marine Bootcamp" mentality! It's a totally unrealistic program in today's world. You are much better off taking the CHS or North Shore program. It's much more student friendly!! :D

[Here it is]

Finally, competition for a Suffolk County Paramedic Program from St. Josephs (copied from their catalog)

Catalog 2005-2006 Academic Majors
Emergency Medical Technician/Paramedic AAS DegreeCourse ID
Counseling 0
FSM000 New Student Seminar 0
English 6
ENG101 Composition I: An Introduction to Expository Writing 3
ENG102 Composition II: Writing Through Literature 3
Humanities/English 3
Lib Arts Liberal Arts Elective 3
Mathematics 3
MAT120 Elementary Statistics I 3
Social Science 3
SSS100 Introduction to Sociology Contemporary Society 3
Natural and Applied Sciences 8
SCB203 Fundamentals of Human Biology I 4
SCB204 Fundamentals of Human Biology II 4
Paramedic Component 36
SCE100 Emergency Medical Technician-Basic 6
SCE230 Paramedic I 12
SCE231 Paramedic II 3
SCE232 Paramedic III 12
SCE233 Paramedic IV 3
Unrestricted Electives 1
Unr El Unrestricted Elective 1
Total Credits: 60

[Yeah ok..]

Yeah? Who is going to teach it? Those crook bastards that tried to run an EMS program in Shirley? What a @#%$ing JOKE!

Yeah? Who is going to teach it? Those crook bastards that tried to run an EMS program in Shirley? What a @#%$ing JOKE!

That crook bastard is now gone, moved out of state. Let him know about this, he might be interested in getting his hand in the pot.

Yeah? Who is going to teach it? Those crook bastards that tried to run an EMS program in Shirley? What a @#%$ing JOKE!

That crook bastard is now gone, moved out of state. Let him know about this, he might be interested in getting his hand in the pot.

FREAKING LOSER CROOK S.O.B. :x

[quote="notalumni"]LET’S TALK ABOUT THE FACTS OF BEING A PARAMEDIC. THERE ARE A FEW SKILLS THAT WE GET OUR ROCKS OFF, ARE YOU REALLY IMPRESSED ABOUT YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU KNOW UNNECESSARY MATERIAL THAT IS USELESS IN THE FIELD...WE ARE NOT GODS...THE PROBLEM IS COME DOWN TO REALITY...IN THE 15 YEARS OF BEING WITH THE VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT I’VE LEARNED MORE THEN EVER, BY RIDING EVERYDAY IS WHERE YOU GET YOUR EXPERIENCE AND NOT READING A BOOK IN STONYBROOK. YOU SAY STONYBROOK HAS THE BEST MEDICS, WELL OPEN YOUR EYES BECAUSE THEY ARE CLUELESS WHEN IT COMES TO PATIENT CARE AND USING THOSE FEW WONDERFUL SKILLS.
LET’S SEE, GO WORK FOR STONYBROOK. IS THAT WHERE I WOULD GET MY EXPERIENCE? <WHAT A JOKE> THE ONLY 911 SERVICE THEY DO IS AT THE VETS HOME...SO TO END THIS I'LL LEAVE WITH THIS NOTE. PAUL YOU ARE NOT GOD. COME DOWN TO REALITY,YOU ARE NOT IMPRESSIVE AND I WOULD PUT MY KNOWLEGE AND SKILLS AGAINST YOURS ANY D


:twisted: HOW CAN YOU TREAT A PATIENT 100% IF YOU DONT HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE HUMANBODY WORKS... IN CASE OF THIS PUSH PINK BOX. IS THIS THE KIND OF MENTALITY THTA YOU WANT FROM PEOPLE THAT WILL BE TREATING YOUR KIDS?? I WILL LET YOU THINK ABOUT IT AND HOPE THAT YOU REALISE THAT YOU ARE 100% RIGHT NEXT TIME THAT YOU ARE VISITING YOUR DOCTOR THINK ABOUT THIS HE WILL GIVE YOU MEDICATION THAT COULD HARM YOU AND IT DOESNT MATTER IF HE PASS CARDIALOGY OR NOT BECAUSE IS ONLY YOUR LIFE... :twisted:

[quote=notalumni]LET’S TALK ABOUT THE FACTS OF BEING A PARAMEDIC. THERE ARE A FEW SKILLS THAT WE GET OUR ROCKS OFF, ARE YOU REALLY IMPRESSED ABOUT YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU KNOW UNNECESSARY MATERIAL THAT IS USELESS IN THE FIELD...WE ARE NOT GODS...THE PROBLEM IS COME DOWN TO REALITY...IN THE 15 YEARS OF BEING WITH THE VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT I’VE LEARNED MORE THEN EVER, BY RIDING EVERYDAY IS WHERE YOU GET YOUR EXPERIENCE AND NOT READING A BOOK IN STONYBROOK. YOU SAY STONYBROOK HAS THE BEST MEDICS, WELL OPEN YOUR EYES BECAUSE THEY ARE CLUELESS WHEN IT COMES TO PATIENT CARE AND USING THOSE FEW WONDERFUL SKILLS.
LET’S SEE, GO WORK FOR STONYBROOK. IS THAT WHERE I WOULD GET MY EXPERIENCE? <WHAT A JOKE> THE ONLY 911 SERVICE THEY DO IS AT THE VETS HOME...SO TO END THIS I'LL LEAVE WITH THIS NOTE. PAUL YOU ARE NOT GOD. COME DOWN TO REALITY,YOU ARE NOT IMPRESSIVE AND I WOULD PUT MY KNOWLEGE AND SKILLS AGAINST YOURS ANY D


:twisted: HOW CAN YOU TREAT A PATIENT 100% IF YOU DONT HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE HUMANBODY WORKS... IN CASE OF THIS PUSH PINK BOX. IS THIS THE KIND OF MENTALITY THTA YOU WANT FROM PEOPLE THAT WILL BE TREATING YOUR KIDS?? I WILL LET YOU THINK ABOUT IT AND HOPE THAT YOU REALISE THAT YOU ARE 100% RIGHT NEXT TIME THAT YOU ARE VISITING YOUR DOCTOR THINK ABOUT THIS HE WILL GIVE YOU MEDICATION THAT COULD HARM YOU AND IT DOESNT MATTER IF HE PASS CARDIALOGY OR NOT BECAUSE IS ONLY YOUR LIFE... :twisted:

aaaa

screw it

screw it :oops:

Woah there, I believe last year's class had one of the highest averages for the state and national registry exams in the program's history, so don't imply that there is a downward trend.

While this years class has had a high number of failures, I would attribute it to the students themselves more than any of the instructors. The instructors can lecture and demonstrate until they're blue in the face, but if the students aren't studying every day, they'll never learn the material. The people that failed out while I was in the class could have EASILY passed if they had their priorities in order.

You urge people to think twice about attending Stony Brook, but where would you like them to go? North Shore? wasn't that program totally cancelled halfway through last year's class? CMC? have you ever had the misfortune of working with one of their medics? it's not fun. I would argue that prospective students should think twice about attending anywhere OTHER than Stony Brook.

I've trained my share of Stony Brook and CMC medic students and I would take any of the Stony Brook medic students on my truck (including the dropouts) over any of the CMC students.

So you say the "TRUE PROBLEM" is that the class is inneffective and uncompassionate? What would you do instead?? Pass everyone? Make it easier? Give the bad students a hug and tell them "I'm sorry we must have made the tests too hard" Well guess what, I spent too much time working my ass off to do well in that course for some pu**y to tell me the class is ineffective. I spent too much time breaking a sweat while being put on the spot during lab sessions, all of which made me and the other students better medics when we got on the street. I know it's effective because the Stony Brook medics I work with are FAR superior to my other coworkers.

I've gotta say you sound much more like someone who is pissed because he failed out than a "disgraced alumni".

[5410]

:roll:

:roll:

:roll:

:lol:

[llll]

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o

paul you are a d ick

:roll:

:shock:

[guest 123456789]

paul you are a d ick

I'm just guessing here, but I take it your sorry ass didn't pass the program, so you feel the need to blame everyone else but yourself.

no actually i am from class 5......
just speaking the truth....
paul you are a d ick

I'm just guessing here, but I take it your sorry ass didn't pass the program, so you feel the need to blame everyone else but yourself.

:shock:

8)

I don't think so!

I don't think so!
come up to level 4 sometime you can see a few of us in blue who agree with this statement "paul is a d ick".
and this one too " Malcolm D. Devine get a life"

[mr x.]

I don't think so!
come up to level 4 sometime you can see a few of us in blue who agree with this statement "paul is a d ick".
and this one too " Malcolm D. Devine get a life"hey e.ms. get lost f.d.only :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:roll:NO No No

I also heard that the class is down to 15. With the exception of two students all have quit their full time jobs.

What do you expect from their "Marine Bootcamp" mentality! It's a totally unrealistic program in today's world. You are much better off taking the CHS or North Shore program. It's much more student friendly!! :D

I agree. YOU would be better in one of those programs!

MD has no life big mouth

I've met with the gentleman who runs the program, Professor Paul Werfel, and it is my impression that nothing would make him happier than to see every single student pass with flying colors. Professor Werfel's philosophy, as explained to me, is simple-he'll only graduate people who he'd feel confident having treat himself or a member of his family. I for one, agree with this 100% and am very grateful that Professor Werfel takes this much pride in his program and his students. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the man and feel honored to have been given the opportunity to apply for a spot in next year's program. Should I not be accepted into this year's program, my plan-reapply next year.

My goal is to become the best paramedic that I can possibly be and I feel that this program is uniquely positioned to achieve my goals.

Should you disagree with me, please feel free to email me at Joe11426@aol.com and we can argue this matter privately until you're blue in the face.

Regards,
Joe S.

Ps. Please excuse my poor composition and grammar. It's 3:26am and I've been up since 7am yesterday. I wasn't planning on writing anything tonight, however I was emailed a link to your posting by a friend who knew I was applying to the program and felt compelled to reply.

hey joe, wipe the brown spot off your nose, it may help you get in but youll still get thrown out, once you pay the money everyone is fair game.

I fail everybody ,Malcolm

You have a choice of paramedic schools. If you perceive a particular school is easier, and that is what you want, then go there. If you think another school is more challenging and will better prepare you for the job then select that one.

Just stop bitching and complaining.

You have a choice of paramedic schools. If you perceive a particular school is easier, and that is what you want, then go there. If you think another school is more challenging and will better prepare you for the job then select that one.

Just stop bitching and complaining.

And when you do finish one of those creampuff programs, please don't show up at my house. Just because you can pass the NYS exam does not mean you are competent.

You have a choice of paramedic schools. If you perceive a particular school is easier, and that is what you want, then go there. If you think another school is more challenging and will better prepare you for the job then select that one.

Just stop bitching and complaining.

And when you do finish one of those creampuff programs, please don't show up at my house. Just because you can pass the NYS exam does not mean you are competent.

Well said!!!

You have a choice of paramedic schools. If you perceive a particular school is easier, and that is what you want, then go there. If you think another school is more challenging and will better prepare you for the job then select that one.

Just stop bitching and complaining.

And when you do finish one of those creampuff programs, please don't show up at my house. Just because you can pass the NYS exam does not mean you are competent.

Well said!!!

Finally some common sense!

The reason why a lot of people fail is because it is a challenging program, I know, I went through it. The challenge is precisely why many students select Stony Brook. We should be thankful that we have a choice. Between Suffolk County and NYC there are probably 4 or 5 medic programs to choose from.

I would say that if you want to feel good about being a professional, If you want to be well prepared, if you want to have the best chance at employment at the best places, if you are ambitious and are interested in promotion then go to Stony Brook, work hard and feel proud.

The rest of you should go to one of the others.

just me...

[guest111111111111111111]

You have a choice of paramedic schools. If you perceive a particular school is easier, and that is what you want, then go there. If you think another school is more challenging and will better prepare you for the job then select that one.

Just stop bitching and complaining.

And when you do finish one of those creampuff programs, please don't show up at my house. Just because you can pass the NYS exam does not mean you are competent.

Well said!!!

Finally some common sense!

The reason why a lot of people fail is because it is a challenging program, I know, I went through it. The challenge is precisely why many students select Stony Brook. We should be thankful that we have a choice. Between Suffolk County and NYC there are probably 4 or 5 medic programs to choose from.

I would say that if you want to feel good about being a professional, If you want to be well prepared, if you want to have the best chance at employment at the best places, if you are ambitious and are interested in promotion then go to Stony Brook, work hard and feel proud.

The rest of you should go to one of the others.

just me...

Thank you for posting this. I agree 100%. Nobody is forcing anyone to go to Stony Brook. If you don't like the program, apply somewhere else. If you don't like Paul, go somewhere else. There are pleanty of programs in Nassau and in NYC that would love to have you, so go there. I went to Stony Brook, I passed and I am proud that I went there. I hated almost every second of it, but I learned a lot and it forced me to pay attention to the little details. Don't knock the program if you don't like it or didn't pass. Go elsewhere and i'm sure you'll pass then. It's all about what you put into the program. If you try hard, you can pass. If you put in no effort, you're going to fail, simple as that.

You have a choice of paramedic schools. If you perceive a particular school is easier, and that is what you want, then go there. If you think another school is more challenging and will better prepare you for the job then select that one.

Just stop bitching and complaining.

And when you do finish one of those creampuff programs, please don't show up at my house. Just because you can pass the NYS exam does not mean you are competent.

Well said!!!

LIKE YOU HAVE A CHOICE WHO SHOWS..........IF there are no 24's or five 3's


And when you do finish one of those creampuff programs, please don't show up at my house. Just because you can pass the NYS exam does not mean you are competent.

Paul is the man, there is no better teacher, but that shitdick Erik is the scurge of stonybrook

You have a choice of paramedic schools. If you perceive a particular school is easier, and that is what you want, then go there. If you think another school is more challenging and will better prepare you for the job then select that one.

Just stop bitching and complaining.

And when you do finish one of those creampuff programs, please don't show up at my house. Just because you can pass the NYS exam does not mean you are competent.

Well said!!!

Finally some common sense!

The reason why a lot of people fail is because it is a challenging program, I know, I went through it. The challenge is precisely why many students select Stony Brook. We should be thankful that we have a choice. Between Suffolk County and NYC there are probably 4 or 5 medic programs to choose from.

I would say that if you want to feel good about being a professional, If you want to be well prepared, if you want to have the best chance at employment at the best places, if you are ambitious and are interested in promotion then go to Stony Brook, work hard and feel proud.

The rest of you should go to one of the others.

just me...

Maybe we should make becoming a paramedic a four year college degree. It would mean better education (not training), more respect and better pay. It would also weed out some of the incompetent people who shouldn't be able to call themselves paramedics.

You have a choice of paramedic schools. If you perceive a particular school is easier, and that is what you want, then go there. If you think another school is more challenging and will better prepare you for the job then select that one.

Just stop bitching and complaining.

And when you do finish one of those creampuff programs, please don't show up at my house. Just because you can pass the NYS exam does not mean you are competent.

Well said!!!

Finally some common sense!

The reason why a lot of people fail is because it is a challenging program, I know, I went through it. The challenge is precisely why many students select Stony Brook. We should be thankful that we have a choice. Between Suffolk County and NYC there are probably 4 or 5 medic programs to choose from.

I would say that if you want to feel good about being a professional, If you want to be well prepared, if you want to have the best chance at employment at the best places, if you are ambitious and are interested in promotion then go to Stony Brook, work hard and feel proud.

The rest of you should go to one of the others.

just me...

:oops:

[Uberguest]

Maybe we should make becoming a paramedic a four year college degree. It would mean better education (not training), more respect and better pay. It would also weed out some of the incompetent people who shouldn't be able to call themselves paramedics.


Some schools already offer that as a 4 year degree

Maybe we should make becoming a paramedic a four year college degree. It would mean better education (not training), more respect and better pay. It would also weed out some of the incompetent people who shouldn't be able to call themselves paramedics.


Some schools already offer that as a 4 year degree

Yeah, but we should make it the standard and not the exception.

:cry:

What ever happened to Shirley Ambulance? How is it going over there?

What ever happened to Shirley Ambulance? How is it going over there?

I heard that a bunch of the derelects that left with the whole GG fiasco came back and are now in control. What a shame. They had such potential after booting GG to become such a great place.

:( THATS TO BAD FOR THE COMPANY

well you know how it goes, anything with the Fink connected goes bad eventually. Another one who couldn't hack the UMC program. Its almost as pathetic as taking the class and being a career dispatcher for the county. Now thats a loser!

well you know how it goes, anything with the Fink connected goes bad eventually. Another one who couldn't hack the UMC program. Its almost as pathetic as taking the class and being a career dispatcher for the county. Now thats a loser!

what does fink have to do with anything? isn't it the bod?

Fink is a 2 faced crook. If only his top cpr instructor/secretary knew what he really thought of her. I mean, come on now...she was expelled from her dept when she was an asst chief, and she is so skilled, that she lost her card as a basic emt, then took three attempts to make the cc level. I wanna learn from her...lol.

But what does Fink have to do with shirley ambulance?

[guest1524]

he has absolutly nothing to do with shirley that place is being ruined by there own board of officers namely there secretary

If it is so bad there then why dont you go back to mbac. oh thats right, you were expelled!

RL was a cheap bas*ard, but DD has no control over his officers or anyone else. He should have stayed with Mastic.

[guest 1245]

I do not know why you are all trying to divert the attention from the real problem at shirley. it is the administration destroying the place. ZFink has nothing to do with shirley and has not in a bunch of years. his secretary does not have any problems there. the issue is the secretary who is an informant for the da and is creating waves at both departments she is affiliated with. When will the members of the department wise up and come to there senses and realize the truth to who is destroying the deparment. If they get rid of the problem there are multiple members that will come out and ride again.

uh guys.... this is a stony brook paramedic page not shirley page so go TROLL SOMEWHERE ELSE

[Unregistered12345]

why? when they kept taking the shirley post off...................what ever happened with there investigation????????????????????????

[Unregistered98]

why? when they kept taking the shirley post off...................what ever happened with there investigation????????????????????????

What ever happened to GG?

[not shirley]

uh
uhsb page
uh guys.... this is a stony brook paramedic page not shirley page so go TROLL SOMEWHERE ELSE

[Unregistered12345]

uhhhhhhh