View Full Version : EMS in Nassau
chief no more
04-08-2004, 10:23 PM
The volunteer fire service in Nassau County should pull out of the EMS business. We are only fooling ourselves. Aside from a few die hard EMS personnel most fire departments view EMS as a burden. With very few exceptions, you hear 2nd and 3rd calls for aided cases every day. Then, when they can't get out mutual aid is used. Having been an EMT-CC for many years I have seen first hand how the system has been breaking down for a long time.
The last time I checked the sign on the front of most of the fire houses in Nassau the signs read "FIRE DEPARTMENT" not "FIRST AID/EMS" on them. We all know that our fund drives are ballooned with donations from grateful citizens who are thankful for that "...ride to the hospital." Let's wake up. Are we really providing a reliable and efficient service to the public. I know there are exceptions, so hold off on the criticism.
The County should contract out the business to a private agency and take a cut of the profits. The private agency could be assigned to a division of the Nassau County Police Department and would be required to maintain standards related to response times, patient care, etc that the NCPD ambulances are held to. A review board could monitor the results on a quarterly basis. The independent agency would also have to bid on a contract every three years in order to retain their position as the sole provider of EMS in Nassau County. A County appointed board could oversee the operation and monitor the effectiveness. If they are lacking in any areas they would be at risk for losing their contract at renewal time.
The county could add a provision that requires this agency to hire personnel from a civil service list comprised of residents of Nassau County with preference being given to active volunteer fire department/EMS personnel who have an interest in doing EMS work. A deal could be constructed to pool all of the resources available in the County from the fire service, volunteer ambulances corps, and NCPD EAB including: EMS supplies and equipment, ambulances, etc. The ambulances could be stationed at area firehouses. (Heaven knows we have enough of them).
Dispatching could be a joint venture handled by the Nassau County Police and Firecom. While not on patrol, the ambulances remain housed in the firehouses rather than "patrolling" an area. This would cut down on wear and tear on the equipment and fatigue of the operators. These ambulances would be manned with two personnel: an EMT and an EMT-CC(or Paramedic). This way the Nassau County Police would not have to take two or more police officers out of service to drive the ambulances to the hospital. The last time I checked cops were supposed to be upholding the law and protecting our citizens; not driving ambulances. (By the way, the County could pay rent to the fire districts for storing/housing their ambulances/personnel in the fire houses.)
Also, I would like to see laws enacted that require nursing homes/long term health care facilities/assisted living residences to be required to provide their own emergency ambulance 24/7/365 for the residents of their facilities. (That would drastically reduce the number of aided cases we go out on). Anyone who knows about these facilities knows that they are the modern day gold mines for their owners. (Why else would they be popping up all over the place?) Unfortunately, they also increase the local fire department's aided case numbers dramatically.
A deal like this makes great fiscal sense to the County; especially since the County is strapped for cash. Since fire departments generally do not charge for their services, each year hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of dollars are being lost. We all know that EMS is a money maker if it is managed correctly so, why doesn't the fire service get together with the County and do something about it?
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NC FFEMT
04-11-2004, 11:39 AM
If Nassau County FD's did not provide EMS service to the county along with the NCPD Ambulances what would the fire department respond to at all?
Most of the Nassau Fire Departments respond to EMS calls, and this make up the majority of the calls.
EMS in nassau county:
1. The Nassau departments save the tax payers money by having ambulance service.
2. It helps justify the spending and existance of many Nassau departments!
Be Safe,
NC FF EMT
Picking and choosing...NC
04-12-2004, 02:22 PM
Like ANYONE can predict when a "good one" as you call it , will happen. You sound like a fool, and the title you used, a disgrace to a man who was a true professional (when it came to his medical skills). Remember the shirts from years back??? " Saving lives is NOT a hobby"
ltjag
04-12-2004, 07:50 PM
I have re-certified twice at FPA. They teach you what you need to know in order to pass the state test. The rest is up to you to learn in the field. If you're circumstance does not allow for that, than tough sh*t. You can re-certify anywhere you want. The bottom line is that their course is oriented toward professionals. If some of you are able to skate along on the relatively informal environment that this class provides then I suggest you keep it to yourselves, lest you spoil it by drawing every dumb piece of sh*t in the county to this program. As far as standards are concerned, they have little to do with where you refresh and everything to do with where you practice. Bottom line: you cant be as good on 300 runs a year as the guy/gal who goes out on 3000. It's a matter of experience plain and simple.
chiefnomore
04-14-2004, 10:25 AM
If you want to respond to EMS alarms than take the test for the new EMS service the County would offer under my plan. Now you would get paid for your services and still do what you enjoy.
If you still want to be a firefighter than volunteer in your local town.
Just check with LtJAG first to see if that's O.K. with the Union.
emslt
04-14-2004, 07:52 PM
The reason EMS calls require mutual aid more frequently than "fire" calls is because EMS unit don't have the luxury of other units in the same department to cover for them. When EMS can not get out everyone notices and "points fingers". When a firefighting unit does not get out they are covered by other units in their own department and no mutual aid is needed. Part of the reason that EMS does not get out sometimes is that EMS units respond to many more calls, that take a much longer time than the firefighters' calls. This causes a great deal of "burn out" of EMS members. Perhaps if EMS calls were only fifteen or twenty minutes like most "Fire" calls, then the "burn-out" would be less.
Chiefnomore makes some very interesting points about EMS units as part of volunteer Fire Departments. Perhaps he is right , EMS should not be part of the Fire Departments. Since EMS handles FAR MORE alarms than the firefighting units, EMS should be an independent volunteer agency in each community. Depending on the total percentage of alarms they normally respond to, the volunteer EMS unit would then be allocated a percentage of the existing Fire Department's budget. (The fire departments would not need this money any longer since they will be out of the "EMS business"). Since EMS answers a majority of the alarms in most departments, I dare say that this would provide adequate money to run these newly formed EMS units. The money would have to go somewhere since most departments base their budgets on the volume of alarms they answer. Without EMS that alarm volume would greatly diminish. The community would be much better served by an independent volunteer EMS staffed by dedicated EMTs, than by an EMS unit which is looked upon as "second class citizens" by the Fire Department of which they are a part.
I personally became a member of my Fire Department's EMS squad after retiring as a police officer. I put my butt on the line enough times in twenty years for pay, that I didn't want to do it for free as a firefighter. But I did want to serve my community. I saw volunteer EMS as away to do this service. Perhaps many other people will feel the same way and join an independent volunteer
EMS.
startwater
04-15-2004, 04:31 AM
most of the ems people that would join a seperate ems unit in a town prob would come from the f.d. that it was be split from. Also you might get some new residents involved but it`s hard once they see what`s involved the back off, my f.d started an ems only unit with no persons joining to this date......... and it`s been on the books for over a year. Plus f.d`s are diffrent now not like when i joined 16 yrs ago... and ems is treated like a red headed step child. which isn`t right either.
ltjag
04-15-2004, 06:28 AM
Many of you posters are correct about the perception of the EMS service provided by our departments. Within the organization it is somehow viewed as less worthy than firefighting. To that I say we need to look at the mission of the fire service, the protection of life and property. You'll note that life comes first. Every body wants the glory of grabbing a victim from a burning building, but that is a rare occurrence indeed. If the desire to preserve life and property is truly coursing in your veins than EMS should be part of your departments operations. Yes, it's maddening to have to deal with the volume of BS calls that we're asked to handle, but that leads me to my other point. Run numbers. We all grumble about these nuisance calls, but when that donation letter goes out you can rest assured that the number of responses by your department is going to be featured pretty prominently. Most letters omit any breakdown of the types of calls this number represents. This is deliberate. After all, who would want to mail out a solicitation for donations saying that the department responded to only 500 fire related calls in the prior year? Better the fire service should embrace EMS and strive to eliminate the stigma that many members place upon it. It ain't very macho, but its very important. EMS is the most likely type of call on which you will have an opportunity to interact with the taxpayer. Use it to show them what they're getting for they're money.
chief no more
04-16-2004, 07:59 AM
Let me start by saying that I agree EMS is an important entity to the volunteer fire service. I said that previously. However, the volume of calls is just more than the system can handle efficiently.
LtJAG please remember that you are still paid for responding to all alarms in your district. That is your job. However, in just about every other town those calls are handled by people who do not get paid. Besides, how many times have the paid guys been on a BS aided case when 230 toned out a general alarm for fire. Your two paid FF's are now out of the loop. Two guys with the training to back you up in the early stages of a fire are on a transport to LBMH with a 90-year-old woman with an earache.
(Remember, FIRE Department first) How many runs would LBFD do without EMS....1000...1500? Wouldn't this lessen the burden for the volunteer guys as well?
Be honest, if the City Council told you tomorrow that the paid guys would no longer have to respond to aided cases you guys would probably have a party lasting a week. Tell me I'm wrong.
I wonder how the City Council would feel if a private agency came in and told them they would provide EMS services in the City of LB at no cost to the taxpayers? And, pay a fee to the City for the rights to provide services there.
I'm using LB as an example but, I think you will understand where I'm going with this. If this process starts in some of the smaller villages in Nassau don't you think it will catch on rapidly. I know of a couple of villages (Malverne, East Rock, RVC) who would gladly accept such a proposal if the price was right.
A paid EMS system is long overdue for the ENTIRE Island. Besides, isn't NSUH ALREADY JOCKEYING FOR POSITION TO BE THE ONE TO BENEFIT FROM A PAID SYSTEM? Isn't the former head of the NSUH now head of Nassau County's Health and Human Services? Hmmmm.........
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MrQuestion
04-16-2004, 08:32 AM
North Shore University Hospital system on the verge of Chapter 11. News to follow !!
chief no more
04-16-2004, 09:39 AM
I need to clarify my earlier statement:
The cost to the taxpayers would be in the form of billing their insurance company for services. Those without the insurance would be billed the same way as hospitals bill their uninsured clients. Set up a payment plan.
Maybe getting a bill for services each time you call the ambulance for a tooth ache will make you think twice next time.
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volff
04-16-2004, 12:57 PM
Don't speak for East Rockaway. We continue to respond to EMS calls and have never had to call for mutual aid (unless more than one ambulance was needed) over the past 2+ years. We're one of the few primary EMS responders left in Nassau County and still going strong.
I think a paid EMS system of the type you describe will be very damaging to the middle and low class, especially if you're talking about a private EMS provider.
chief no more
04-16-2004, 01:02 PM
My apologies to East Rock....you are right...you guys do get out.
I will be careful not to make the same mistake again.
________
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ltjag
04-16-2004, 03:26 PM
I am inclined to agree with you Chief. Obviously, EMS calls get to be quite monotonous after awhile. For me personally though, I must tell you that I would not have been hired but for EMS, and more specifically, EMS transportation and billing. We all love to drape ourselves in the glamorous trappings of being FF's, but the fact is with my department, EMS is our bread and butter. You're right, getting a paycheck makes this a lot more bearable. We were being attritioned out up until my union floated a proposal to the City to take over the ambulance service from LBMC. This saved the job. The revenue this brought in has spurred the City to hire on a pretty regular basis.
As to the prospect of a private coming in and taking over, I will offer that most other jurisdictions who've tried this have had bad results. Often the privates come in with lofty promises of savings to the taxpayer only to threaten to walk away once they are entrenched because they say that the revenues are insufficient to make it make sense for them. This scenario has occurred over and over again. Once you've disbanded the municipal apparatus they are free to charge the municipality whatever they wish to provide coverage. If you're not willing to pay they simply pull up stakes and abandon the response area leaving you to scramble for coverage. Anytime you insert a profit motive into the arena of providing for the public's safety, you are taking a huge gamble. I think fire based EMS is the best way to deliver this vital service, however, it needs to be done with commitment. Don't dabble in it, jump in with both feet. Pay people if you need to. Remember, lives may be at stake. It is way too important of a responsibility to leave it to hobbyists or the profit driven.
chief no more
04-16-2004, 04:59 PM
These questions are based on my curiosity...they are not meant to sound sarcastic. I am hoping to gain some insight into this issue so that I may develop an informed decision on which side to support...
paid vs. volunteer EMS.
1. When and where was a private agency used for EMS in a Nassau County town?
2. Who was the private agency providing services?
3. How does the GCFD stay afloat without running EMS and why haven't they been ordered to run the EMS instead of having it supplied by the NCPD and/or the surrounding volunteer fire departments?
4. Doesn't GCFD have more FF on each shift than LBFD?
5. Where does their money come from? Does that village really have that much more money than Long Beach?
________
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ltjag
04-16-2004, 05:37 PM
I'm not aware of any Nassau communities that are/were served by privates. The instances I refer to all were outside of NY State, out west mostly. This was companies such as AMR, Rural/Metro and Lifestar.
Yes, you are correct about GC having more paid members on duty at any given time. They also have more members than we do in LB. Why? I really can't say. I also have no idea how they have managed to avoid taking on EMS duties. Quite frankly, I'm jealous of them. I do believe they provide some value added type services such as BI or code enforcement, but don't quote me on this.
As far as their budget is concerned, I have no idea what it is or where it comes from. I don't know if they're a district or if they're under the auspices of the village budget. Either way, they are proof that even without EMS, and the attendant revenue it provides, some communities can afford a part paid fire department.
GCFDVolly
04-16-2004, 09:02 PM
The GCFD is funded from the Incorporated Village of garden city property taxes on residential and commercial properties.
The fire department is a combination department comprised of five companies with 34 career firefighters and 120 volunteer firefighters.
The fire department budget for 2003/2004 is:
$ 3,719,165 Fire Department (Equipment and payroll for combination department)
$ 1,300,000 Benefits and NYS Fire Retirement System (Estimated as percentage of fire employees to police and other employees)
$ 5,019,165 Estimated Total.
Represents about 11% of village budget of 45,634,124.
Represents about $511 per year out of my $4,679.76 annual village tax bill for an average 3-bedroom 2-bath home in the village.
County tax for NCPD Headquarters tax, providing ambulance, detective, and emergency services to the village represents $785.57 of our tax bill. Total Garden City Police budget is about $ 8,600,000 million for payroll, expenses, benefits, and retirement.
The village provides no EMS services from the fire department, even though the career and volunteer members have requested. A number of our career members are certified AEMTs, with one as an instructor in the EMS academy, two former NCPD ambulance drivers, and a number of career members who are techs in volunteer departments / ambulance corps on the island. We also have a number of volunteers who are techs as active members of the Mineola Volunteer Ambulance Corp.
EMS is provided primary by NCPD 2350 which is based in our village water works garage in the special police quarters. 2350 also covers the whole third precinct and is frequently out of the village. The other county ambulances, volunteer fire departments, and ambulance corps provide coverage for our village. Our GCPD officers carry AED?s, Oxygen, and first aid equipment. Two of the 6 to 7 police officers on duty respond to each aided case.
When the NCPD ambulance is not available or is in a remote precinct response times can exceed 20 minutes for an advanced emergency technician.
In the village we have 34 career firefighters and 120 volunteers.
The career company is divided as follows:
1 Captain (Works 8 hours day times only Monday to Friday)
5 Lieutenants (Work 2 days 2 nights 48 hours a week)
28 Firefighters (work 2 days 2 nights 48 hours a week)
20 years half pension and full medical benefits for life.
Most stay on well past 20, increasing the pension benefit.
Staffing is 7 men on week nights and on weekends.
Staffing is 10 men on week days.
Three Fire houses
Outlying stations have 2 men on one engine at all times
Headquarters is manned at night and weekends by one LT, one firefighter who dispatches and operates the tower ladder, and one firefighter who operate the headquarters engine. During week days (day time only), the captain is on duty, one additional LT for fire inspections, and one additional firefighter / day man to fill out the engine with two men in headquarters.
Sill Alarms, the LT and One engine respond.
General Alarms, the Chiefs, two engines, the ladder, volly heavy rescue, and LT respond in the Suburban, and volly's in POV's, or out of Headquarters rigs if in the firehouse.
EMS, no response.
Extrication Calls, Chiefs, Volly Heavy Rescue, one engine, and LT.
GCFD runs about 1100 fire calls a year (half stills half generals) and performs 465 fire inspections of commercial and government buildings a year. The GCPD runs 13,055 calls a year, with a high percentage of them being aided cases (EMS calls).
We average around 5-8 workers a year. Lots of automatic alarms, qualifying the town as an ?Electronic Ghetto?.
Village has not been receptive to the historical requests of career and volunteer personnel lobbying for the FD to provide EMS.
Limited Political will.
Village board and mayor are run by a non-partisan group of leaders from the 4 property owners associations for no compensation. Village incorrectly feels having one ambulance NCPD 2350 ambulance located in the water works as sufficient.
Long beach has a more effective EMS system with career techs / firefighters responded on the initial call, and volunteer members available to respond with an additional ambulance. GCFD has 1 third more men, for a fraction of the fire alarms and working fires that Long Beach has.
Key for any ambulance service is providing 24 x 7 service staffed with members state certified in ?Advanced Life Support?.
LT Jag, FYI, GCFD career captain is retiring within a year or so. Interested in the position to help expand GCFD to cover EMS? Would provide a big benefit for public safety as well as a more tax efficient structure!
How is long beach staffed, and what is the responce SOP for EMS, Still, and General alarms?
________
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chief no more
04-16-2004, 09:30 PM
Thanks for the stats. Based on your numbers it sounds like close to 35% of your taxes go to fire and police.
Hard to believe with that many paid employees on duty that they haven't stuck the EMS badges on you guys. How many of the 34 career guys really want it?
Isn't 2350 primary in Hempstead, too?
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GCFDVolly
04-16-2004, 09:47 PM
Yes, about 35% go to fire and police.
24 % for payroll and expenses for PD and FD. Fire and police pension and other benefits are listed seperately as one line item seperate from the police and fire budget.
The rest of the difference between 24 & 35 is my conservative estimate based on number of employees of the benefits and pension funding.
2350 is primary in Hempstead as well, and is secondary to areas covered by 2353, 2363, and 2373.
I hear it passing down Washington avenue frequently.
Village has historically blocked EMS initiatives in the last 30 years or so.
I would say about 1/4 of the career guys would want it.
In order to have it happen, the career and police would want to increase man power first.
We really need improved EMS. We are fortunate to have the support of the mutual aid system of the surrounding departments. PD will only reach out to the surronding departments if NCPD is not available (any where in the county), which causes the responce times to be delayed unless the PD supervisor specifically requests an FD ambulance when the ETA for serious cases is "too long".
Another interesting stat, Garden City personal service expenses (no equipment) for all employees is 41.1% of the budget, with employee benefits and insurance taking up another 11%.
________
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chief no more
04-18-2004, 05:09 PM
I'm surprised that no one has complained about the delays...and if they have...that nothing has been done about it.
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GCFDVolly
04-18-2004, 05:18 PM
For the average citizen, the delays are often masked by the excellent responce of the police, who start some level of care.
I remember when my my great uncle passed away from a Heart Attack walking up to the old Stauffers on Franklin avenue, police were there in minutes, the ambulance had an extended delay.
On an individual basis, some have raised it. The village is very actively focused more on what to do with the St Pauls School, what to do with the County Hub zone plan.
Our village is some what reactive vs. proactive on these matters.
For instance, for a log time going back some years, our department had no extrication equipment. When the mayors son was envolved in an accident on a very cold day in the winter, the county emergency servcies responded with their extrication equipment, but it would not start. It took mutual aid from Westbury to extricate the Mayors son from the car.
The department was authorized to purchase extrication equipment for old rescue 6 very soon after.
________
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cichlid
04-18-2004, 08:24 PM
Do the residents of your town know you have an ems only unit? Maybe you need to let the public know and you might get a response.
I personally know I would join an ems only unit, but in my town you have to become a ff, which I am not willing to do. I initially did not check into my fd's policy, but was basing it on what others have told me. (which is why I asked if your residents are fully aware of your policies)
Since then I have checked into it, and it is a fact that you need to join the fd and train as a ff to become an emt. I do think they need to change that, because many signal 9's end up with a crew but no medical. I would tend to think a volunteer fire dept. should take all the help they can get medically and firematically.
Jennie
04-18-2004, 09:41 PM
That's great that you want to join EMS. Here's a suggestion for you. If you have not done so already, talk to the chief of the FD you would like to join. In my local FD, you have to train as a FF, even if you only want to do rescue, but because they have had several people join who only want to do EMS, they are considering changing the by-laws. They join and ride rescue and don't go for their FF training, which is a problem and is why the chiefs are looking into making a change. EMS is in great need of people and it's not right to turn someone away who is willing to do EMS only. Perhaps if you talk to the chief they may consider making a change as well. Also, you can get your EMT card at a university (I believe Suffolk offers it, but I'm not sure about Nassau) and join a FD that has paid EMS. Don't give up...the public needs people like you.
chief no more
04-19-2004, 11:25 AM
Isn't that always the case? That is not exclusive to GC. With very few exceptions most departments/districts are reactive. How many times have you heard "...we don't have the money..." or "it's not in the budget" ???
It usually takes an event such as what happened to the Mayor's son to get people to open their eyes...and wallets. It's actually very sad.
I had to wait until my old Lifepak 5 (approx. 18 years old) malfunctioned not once, but twice, during two different cardiac arrests within one month before my BOFC decided to "look in to possibly purchasing a new defibrillator". All previous requests were denied due to lack of funds. Even after a proactive individual in my department found some state grant monies to help defray the total costs to my district it took nearly 10 months before we got the new unit. By the way, the Board dropped the ball on the grant paperwork and we lost the (free) money As Chief, I had to take my ambulance off the books as an ALS provider until we got the new unit. I believe that if had been one of their family members on the stretcher dead we would have had a new unit within a week.
But wait...this isn't the commissioners' bashing board...sorry.
Be safe....
________
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GCFDVolly
04-20-2004, 02:56 PM
You are right. With very few exceptions most departments / districts are reactive.
Bravo for you efforts in getting the Lifepac replaced for your ambulance. It is a shame the BOFC did not take the opportunity earlier to use the state grant money, and only focused on procurement of a new difibrillator when the ambulance was taken off the books as an ALS provider until the new unit was purchased.
In the future, I look to get more active in our property owners association and village government to support the department in obtaining the resources required for fire prevention, suppression, and EMS.
Be Safe, and look out for the brothers at calls.
Regards,
GCFDVolly
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Sorry to butt in, but has GCFD consider using a paramedic engine concept like just about everywhere else in the country? That way you don't seem to be stepping on toes (as much) while increasing services to residents. With an paramedic engine, you get the community benefits of standard, rapid response without the drawbacks of high limited service times (e.g.- all of the glory, none of the grunt work...)
Scot Phelps
(a paramedic and part-time resident of LB)
GCFDVolly
05-14-2004, 06:32 PM
Scot, ALS Engines would be an ideal solution / home run for GC, providing a two minute responce time for advanced life support.
Will bring it up at the next monthly meeting and pass the concept by a few of the village leaders.
Thanks,
GCFDVolly
________
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chief no more
05-15-2004, 06:56 AM
Sounds like a great idea for the residents to receive the services they need in a timely manner.
Will the engine carry all the ALS equipment they need to run an arrest while they are waiting for the county bus? If so, the department should seriously explore the possibility of implementing this concept further.
Be safe everyone...............
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GCFDVolly
05-15-2004, 08:25 AM
That is the vision.
IT would improve service if we could raise care to ALS with properly equiped and staffed ALS engine or sqaud/heavy rescue responding prior to the county bus arriving.
This would expand initial care to the ALS level beyond AED and Oxygen which the PD currently provide until the county bus arrives.
At the moment it is a vision with a seed to be planted.
Will need the support of the Village, Fire Department, Village Police, and Local 1588 to make it happen.
________
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engine4ver
06-13-2004, 02:26 AM
It is about time the EMS system in Nassau Co. get a little fine tuning.
engine4ver
06-13-2004, 07:28 PM
As we enter further into the millenium, it seems to me the EMS system hasn't gotten past 1990. It is about time we took a hard look at the way we respond to calls for medical assistance within the County of Nassau. Our current system served us well for many years. In the 1970's and 1980's we were at the forefront of the EMS community for our unique system of NCPD, volunteer fire department, and volunteer ambulance corps. that responded to calls. Now time has taken its toll on our system. Population growth, the proliferation of nursing homes, and the amount of time it now takes a person to get certified as an emergency care provider have all factored in. The high cost of living in Nassau County has made it hard to attract volunteers. we need to explore several avenues of change within our system. It is going to take some hard work, a little trial and error and new attitude of doing what is inherently best for our residents. Cooperation, legislation, and funding will all be key factors within the scope of change. As a member of a busy fire department in the Hub of Nassau County, I am open to fresh changes to provide the best care possible to our residents. In closing lets all get together, break down the walls that seem to prevent us from a cohesive effort and put forth an initiative for excellence in the provision of emergency medical care.
FFEMTP
06-13-2004, 09:06 PM
The ALS Engine idea works great. I worked in a system where they did it. Limited cost, much benefit to the community. I don't think there is any kind of rules regulating ALS Engines, but you would probably have to go under some kind of first responder unit rules and regs. I don't think the guys would have as much of a problem with ALS Responder, then they would with an Ambulance. maybe???? Well good luck, let me know if they go for it, I would apply. Always looking to better myself. Be Safe Guys........
FIREMAN
06-14-2004, 08:21 AM
Thank GOD, finally a page with intelligent people! I think ALS ENGINE is a good idea but the amount of alarms will increase dramatically and more manpower will be needed, YES? The UNION though, only 1/4 are interested? Contract negotation? How would 3 Engines answer alarms with 2-2 man Engines and 1-1 man Engine 6p-9a with the increase in alarms?
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FIRES
06-14-2004, 05:35 PM
SOOO GC has 34 PAID MEMBERS to offset the vollies for approx $511 a year? That is a far cry from what has been proposed by the know it all's in previous posts and the newspaper! I would gladly pay that for Fire protection and maybe EMS ENGINE so I know my family and friends are protected and cared for within 2-4 minutes of calling in! It seems like a combination Dept threatens the entire volly system and I don't get it. If it helps and works then for $500-$700 isn't it worth it. The Fire service is an insurance policy - having Fire protection from career but mostly volly wouldn't that lower insurance rates even if a little due in part to response times??? Plus BI and other safety inspection they would or could do to make everything safer??? GCFDVOLLY that budget of roughly $5 mill. included career and vollys correct or just career??? And one other question, how big miles wise is
your district??? Sorry all the questions it just amazes me all the opposition for some paid people and I am not saying to get rid of the vollies, I am one and LOVE IT!!!
engine4ver
06-14-2004, 07:12 PM
I agree with GCFD Volly's postings regarding the use of a combination paid/volunteer fire service. I feel is an excellent way to provide both fire & medical care to a district while still keeping the volunteer fire service alive.
This system is not for every district in Nassau County. Those of us within the fire service know that change is a very hard pill to swallow. We must keep the best interests of providing quality service to the public. A combination department is an insurance policy that a trained and fully equipped apparatus will get to a scene right from the start of an alarm.
I believe this is what the public expects from us.
ltjag
06-14-2004, 07:23 PM
The LB fire department is a combination department consisting of 22 paid members and about 160 volunteers. Its been this way for over 75 years. All members are cross-trained FF/EMT's. All but one of the 22 are AEMT's. We staff an engine and an ambulance. Accordingly, every call receives an ALS response with at least one, and usually two AEMT's. Our engine is fully ALS equipped. Our ambulance goes out on any initial EMS call and our engine is the initial response to any subsequent call. We start care while awaiting the arrival of the volunteer staffed bus. Our average response time is under 3 minutes.
That we have co-existed for over 75 years shows that a part paid contingent does not necessarily spell the end of the volunteers. We average 4500 calls a year. Of these, about 3300 are EMS related. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to cover this call load with a strictly volunteer force. By the way, the department budget is about 3 million a year. This is the entire budget including all salaries, benefits etc;. We also bill for transportation to the tune of about a million a year. We usually collect about half that amount. Bottom line: Unequaled coverage at a cost to the taxpayer of about 2.5 million a year. This system is the greatest bargain in the history public safety. Why wont we ever see it Island wide? All the greedy little kings wont give up their kingdoms. A combination system can only be achieved hand in hand with the consolidation of the fire service at least on a town wide basis, and more appropriately, a county wide basis. Oh what the hell, we can dream cant we?
As somebody who lives in LB at least part-time, I would be happier if LBFD had a proper 5-man engine, even if I had to pay (slightly) higher taxes...I would also be happier if I could get volunteers to explain to me how without a regular duty roster, we can be sure that somebody will show up- I think a part-volunteer system is great, I just think response needs to be taken seriously.
Scot Phelps
Homer
06-18-2004, 04:14 PM
"we"
"Our"
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huh 2
11-13-2004, 04:47 PM
double huh???
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eng312lt
11-22-2004, 11:20 AM
well inwood gets out even when the paid tech is off duty I know this because i'm one of the many tech's we have that responds to pretty much every aided case when i'm not at work .I became a tech after two years in and I don't regret it one bit.As far as training I would never go to fpa because they treat firefighters like @#%$ there I had one bad run in there and thats all it took .Im not the only one I know of many other techs that have gone there and had problems I think veeb gives the best training when it comes to ems because e they don't just teach you what you need to know to pass the test they teach you how to handle just about everything you might see .I'm in the process of taking my cc there after 14 years as an emt and with the instructors I have it's pretty intense but they make sure you understand before they move on to the next subject. In some places chief no mores plan might be the way to go but a I feel that remac and the county should do a countywide study on lapses in ems in parts of the county and whats needed to bring them up to speed .
Medic1984
12-18-2004, 11:10 PM
I think there's a lot of ignorance in the Fire Service as to what the NCPD EAB is all about, what standards their members are held to, how difficult the job really is, and why we're an important part of this county's infrastructure. Regardless who responds to EMS calls via the 911 system, the County of Nassau is still fiscally liable for litigations towards response and patient care, irregardless of whether it's private or municipal. By providing a municipal EMS service that bills for transportation, closely monitors the abilities and aptitude of it's members, has a diciplinary and retraining process, has a comprehensive multi tier QAI program, the NCPD EAB provides a regular high standard of care in an atmosphere that borders on 70% self sufficiency. This spares the taxpayers a great burden financially and provides them with paid professional EMS providers. Integrated into this system is many of the 70 volunteer fire departments and volunteer ambulance corps, some of which are primary responders, that faithfully serve their communities at the highest level that can be achieved by casual EMS providers, yet in most cases adequate. To say we need some revamping of the system is justified, but we have what we need in our established agencies, we just need to integrate them. By going private, the county loses control over the workforce, since it would not be able to be civil service unless it was county run, and the job title already exists in the NCPD. You would have any Tom, Dick, or Harry coming to the aid of our citizens, with a turnover rate typical of the private ambulance sector that would cause the standard of care to drop. In short, we are on the right track, we just need to integrate the resources we have. This satisfies the fire departments and helps the NCPD EAB run more efficiently.
To address the ignorant individual that accused the NCPD EAB ambulances of picking and choosing calls, you have no idea what we do and what we go through on a daily bases. We handle more low priority calls on a daily basis than most fire departments do in a month. We handle every mental aided, drunk, indigent, and non favorable call in the areas we cover. Why, because unlike the FD, we do not have the ability to decline a response or get to a scene and have a police ambulance respond to transport for us. So, take a hard look at yourself before you point fingers at others. I can assure you, as a paid responder in Nassau County's municipal EMS service, I have never picked or chosen my calls, declined to respond, or chased down fire department calls for the sake of glory. That goes for the majority of the men and women I proudly serve with. I've seen it the other way around quite frequently however. I've heard five calls for a sick person in the middle of the night, but when the car accident with a pin comes out 20 minutes later, people mysterious fall from the sky. Don't be a hypocrite, we know better and so do you.
All EMS responders in this county provide an important service, and the NCPD is constantly trying to do more with less in order to support the volunteer service. We take you on our units for training, our personnel train you at the FPA, and our field personnel assist you when called upon. I've often heard the comment, "I had no idea what you guys were all about until I rode a tour with you". Trust me, your comments prove your ignorance. If you want to really know what goes on, come on out and ride a tour or two. Perhaps in Freeport or Hempstead, maybe Westbury. Then you'll see how we duck calls and only take the good one. Not.
By the way, people are sick and dying when we are called to their aid, there's nothing good or glorious about it. It's my job, I chose my career 20 years ago. I'm not hear for the glory, I'm here to help people that need a kind hand in a time of need, or to do whatever it takes to keep someone alive. That's what it's all about. Not glory or turf. It's about life and death.
shotgun6
12-19-2004, 12:09 AM
Very well said "84"
chief no more
12-19-2004, 07:05 AM
Medic1984 brings to light some valid points. People should listen to them.
Also, 84, you should refer to my original post. The idea of this thread was to induce intelligent conversation on how to make the system better. Instead, it has turned into what most of the other threads to...childish name calling and finger pointing.
I suggest that the ignorant replies be ignored completely and consider the source and who would write such nonsense.
________
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ems4real
12-20-2004, 06:28 AM
Private service in 911 is not only a waste of money but dangerous to the public. They care ONLY about profits and nothing else. An idle ambulance isn't making money so the solution is less service and higher response times = more profits (because the unit is busy and not sitting). The county loses control since they are bound by a contract and have no say in discipline. VERY bad idea!
ProudFF
12-20-2004, 06:34 AM
Get everyone to function as a group, not individual units. We all work tword a common goal, serving a public in need, and we can't get together on things.
ProEMT
12-20-2004, 07:29 AM
As far as the post saying private ems is in it only for the profit, well yes that is important, but if NC entered into a contract they can set the standard. Look at the private hosp ambulances in the city, they are responsible to the city ems system first and the hospital or company second. Maybe a little education before a post should be required.
I've been to many "Good Ones "with my FD which is 3rd in responce behind 2 NCPD ambulances. No NCPD ever became available. Oh and suprise some turned out to be not so good ones. OH well.Oh by the way what do you call a good one? You mean the 78 y/o female with stomach pains? Oh when you get there at 3am, oh yeah you are probably home in your warm bed bcause it is not a "good one", I'm there with the mutual aid dept and what I find is I get to use my brain and training. Turns out the little old lady is having a massive MI. I get to use my brain and give her fluids draw blood and give her meds to help her. Oh she later told me that because the crew was calm and professional it made her feel better. Oh then the thank you letter from her and her familly made me realize that all my training and dedication paid off. So tell me what is a "Good One"?
Maybe you should get a scanner. How about the F.D. that is fourth in responce behind 3 NCPD ambulances but they want to be notified for ALL 4th withs.
Or how about The primary F.D.s that can't get out for a nursing home call or a low income housing area in their district and they don't call mutual aid they just call the county.
So tell me, Who picks and chooses calls?
I've been to many "Good Ones "with my FD which is 3rd in responce behind 2 NCPD ambulances. No NCPD ever became available. Oh and suprise some turned out to be not so good ones. OH well.Oh by the way what do you call a good one? You mean the 78 y/o female with stomach pains? Oh when you get there at 3am, oh yeah you are probably home in your warm bed bcause it is not a "good one", I'm there with the mutual aid dept and what I find is I get to use my brain and training. Turns out the little old lady is having a massive MI. I get to use my brain and give her fluids draw blood and give her meds to help her. Oh she later told me that because the crew was calm and professional it made her feel better. Oh then the thank you letter from her and her familly made me realize that all my training and dedication paid off. So tell me what is a "Good One"?
Maybe you should get a scanner. How about the F.D. that is fourth in responce behind 3 NCPD ambulances but they want to be notified for ALL 4th withs.
Or how about The primary F.D.s that can't get out for a nursing home call or a low income housing area in their district and they don't call mutual aid they just call the county.
chief no more
12-20-2004, 06:43 PM
Thank you for reading and understanding my entire post. You are one of the few. Good example comparing the city hospitals who run in the 911 system.
Be safe everyone.................
________
CERAMIC WATER PIPE (http://glassgallery.tumblr.com/ceramic-bongs)
HE HAS NO CLUE
12-20-2004, 08:00 PM
THANKS TO THE ABOVE POSTINGS.... EMS4REAL,,,SHOULD BE EMS/WITH OUT/A/CLUE. THE INK ON HIS CARD IS PROBABLY STILL DRIPPING BECAUSE ONLY SOMEONE WITH NO EXPERIENCE WOULD MAKE A REMARK LIKE THAT
Fire494
12-22-2004, 12:32 PM
Up in syracuse the ambulance companies handle EMS. Rural Metro or NAVAC goes and if it's something they might need help on they tone out the fire dept for a squad or rescue. The FD's love it, they don't have to transport. I don't think anyone in Nassau County will let that ever happen only because it makes sense. Then again, upstate they don't have such @#%$ ambulance companies like Hunter or Metrocare. NCPD shouldn't have ambulances that say "police" on them. The operators are not cops. If the county is going to do it, do it right.
In response to Fire494's post the operators of the NCPD ambulances used to be police officers, im not sure if ALL were officers, but i know the majority of them used to be. I believe thats why they say POLICE on the sides.
Mikecp421
01-08-2005, 07:50 PM
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chief no more, after reading your first post i happen to agree with you the EMS system in NC is definitely going in the wrong direction and many issues needs to be addressed. there are a few things that i want to say. first the state is not releasing anymore C.O.N.'s to create a new private ambulance service. however the current private ambulance companies such as transcare, lifestar, hunter, well there are just so many. these private companies already have a C.O.N. and are able to provide the county with help but they don't want to get involved because they will be going against the police dept and more likely than not they will lose because the NCPD wants to protect there own. by bringing in a private company means less overtime for them and that can't happen. Second, you don't think letting each fire department or fire district go to a paid EMS service? especially during daytime hours where every district is hurting. i believe that this is the direction where the NCFD are looking to go to. however the departments should not hire within and hire non members only. Third i would like to know your views about notifications to MedCom. on how when FD ambulance gives a notification they have to give a story and NC ambulance gives a notification it's only about 3 sentences and one of those sentence is "enrout to hosp....." i find this ridiculous what should happen to one should happen to all. ty
You only need to give a one line notification in fact BLS is not required to notify at all. The only time the hospitals want vitals is for trauma. ALS will give a full report when they take a med ch for orders. Yes there should be a set procedure for primary/secondary not which emergency line was used to activate the call. Departments that pull out of 911 should turn there CON/s. If 14a is coming from 2 pcts away closest FD should also be activated.
Could be worse we could have the Suffolk county nightly 24 round-ups :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
i know how the notifications work in nassau i am an ALS provider in nassau i think that it is unfair how a 14a notifies verus how everyone else notifies.
for example last night listening to the scanner a 14a notified "58 y/o male with chest pain coming to you in 7" no vitals, no notification of any ALS intervention (i know 14a are all ALS providers) nothing just the info above and all medcom said was "come on in and gave the time." if that was any other ambulance the information would of been not enough they would of asked you for vitals, duration of pain, radition of pain, any ALS intervention, any diff breathing, etc... NO but because it was a 14a the information they give is satisfactory and enough. if that is the case then all EMS providers should be allowed to notify the way a 14a does.
guest8
03-30-2005, 10:52 PM
:lol:
One problem is the NCPD Ambluance Techs who stay unavailable with their previous aided .............untill a "good one " comes over and "fire dept being notified" is said ...then almost like clock work they become available.
thehornet
07-06-2005, 07:41 PM
you wrote.... "One problem is the NCPD Ambluance Techs who stay unavailable with their previous aided .............untill a "good one " comes over and "fire dept being notified" is said ...then almost like clock work they become available."
Nothing could be further from the truth.....
mike rr
08-22-2005, 09:00 PM
Sorry ..... it happens all the time....... County buses toss the coffee at the ERnurses station and run to the Good ones
are they cops? or just work for pd amb
The AMT's are civilians in the PD. Most are good as with any job you have the dead wood. Most of the VFD's I've worked around were good, some better than others. Some members are a little to buffy and race to low priority calls. Don't bother giving them a slow down because they will disregard. They think you are trying to break their balls by giving them a slow down but they don't understand that its just so they and others don't get hurt by them going to a b.s. call.
NCPD responds to nearly 60,000 aided cases a year. They are only good call. GET A LIFE IF YOU BELIEVE THAT. Stop listening to the scanner, get a girl, and grow up. Like all things timing is everything. When you ride 2350 for the day or any other county bus and see what is going on then you can post logical info on this site. Until then just shut the hell up cause you have no clue on what is going on. Stop whinning
cuffs?
10-18-2006, 10:43 PM
why do they carry handcuffs and mace???
The biggest problem with NCPD busses is that they always put themselves oOS for nonsense calls and always seem to come back into service and gives the fire depts a disregard when a glory call comes in.
The AMT's are civilians in the PD. Most are good as with any job you have the dead wood. Most of the VFD's I've worked around were good, some better than others. Some members are a little to buffy and race to low priority calls. Don't bother giving them a slow down because they will disregard. They think you are trying to break their balls by giving them a slow down but they don't understand that its just so they and others don't get hurt by them going to a b.s. call.
The AMT's are civilians in the PD. Most are good as with any job you have the dead wood. Most of the VFD's I've worked around were good, some better than others. Some members are a little to buffy and race to low priority calls. Don't bother giving them a slow down because they will disregard. They think you are trying to break their balls by giving them a slow down but they don't understand that its just so they and others don't get hurt by them going to a b.s. call.
BUMPPPPPP
09-05-2007, 11:26 PM
Bump
Unregisteredback
05-16-2011, 12:37 PM
:)
648886433
06-02-2011, 01:53 PM
thought so
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